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Bob Moser’s new book, Blue Dixie, offers a compelling case for Democrats not to give up just yet on the South. Before turning to the many merits and potential pitfalls of Bob’s book, let me say a few preliminary things to clarify the situation as it relates to him and his argument—and me and mine.
I like Bob Moser. He is a smart, thoughtful, compassionate, reasonable, tough and unapologetic southern liberal; in fact, I’ve grown convinced that these adjectives are practically redundant to the “southern liberal” label they modify. Basically, one cannot be a liberal in the South today without being most if not all of these things because, well, it’s inarguably the toughest region in a America to be a Democrat (especially a liberal Democrat). I’ve met many good southern liberals over the last four years, and Moser not only typifies but exemplifies the shared qualities that, time and again, I find among them. He has a strong narrative writing style, and in this book and a one-on-one debate we had last year at Wake Forest University he made me rethink several things I thought I “knew” about southern politics. Plus, in a way—and this may surprise some FDL folks, especially those who have not read carefully my own book, Whistling Past Dixie, which Bob’s book is partially (and politely and honestly) dedicated to answering—I would actually prefer that his hopes and prescriptions for a southern revival bear out, and in the long term I think many of them will. When the South moves in significant ways back toward the Democrats it almost certainly will mean that the Democrats have forged a formidable majority nationally. In short, though I think Bob is wrong (better: overconfident) in some of his arguments about and prescriptions for a Blue Dixie, especially in the near term as the Democrats continue to build their undeniable non-southern majority, I am still hoping he will be proved right in the medium- to long-term, a sentiment I express at the end of Whistling.
Now, Moser’s big argument: Economic populism will save the white South and, if practiced properly by Democrats, national and local, it will finally bring around disgruntled white southerners. Here I find myself strangely rooting for Bob’s prescriptions because we have the same ideological moorings, and yet reminding myself of the limited appeal of economic populism to white southerners. Basically, what Bob is arguing in Blue Dixie—and this takes some guts on his part, frankly, so major kudos to him for it—is that Clinton-Gore, Al From-inspired centrism ruined the Democrats’ chances to restore themselves in the region. This argument runs very counter to the conventional wisdom and superficial history of the politics of the past two decades which, of course, is that DLC moderation is what helped Clinton get into the Oval Office and what will only work moving forward. (I would love to hear what Clinton himself would say in response.)
I am so sympathetic to this argument because I think the econ-pop solution holds such potential in other parts of the country. So why not the South? Because—and here is where I think Bob is too hopeful, too unwilling to take a clear-eyed look at race and religion and social conservatism as the undeniable impediments they are—the economic populism that worked before the Great Society was successful precisely because the beneficiaries of New Deal distributive and regulatory policies were almost exclusively white. This fact just cannot be massaged or punted or covered with a nice coat of blue paint. Post-civil rights and Great Society, redistribution took on new meaning because it had to be inclusive. I’m sorry to have be the cold bucket of water here, but it is simply too convenient to point to the days of, say, South Carolina’s Santee Cooper Dam or the Tennessee Valley Authority and then project forward that what worked then can be revived today. Bob has spent a lot of time in South Carolina, the state where one Democrat told me (not for attribution, naturally) that the reason school choice is such an animating issue there for whites is that it is basically the “last legal form of segregation.” Translation: You can still use it legally to keep the white resources in the white communities. This was said in 2006–by a disgruntled but, hey, at least realistic Democrat.
I have four or five specific questions from the book ready to pose, but I’m already hogging this forum with my blather. To close: Buy Bob’s book and read it because it’s the best response thus far to the arguments made by non-southern strategists like me. With that, let me get out of the way so FDL’s readers can pose their questions for Bob.



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Bob, Welcome to the Lake.
Tom, Thank you for Hosting the Book Salon today.
Happy to be here.
bob: are you there?
schaller here
welcome to FDL book salon
Welcome,Tom and Bob.
That is a really interesting argument, as someone with a long family history in Tennessee I would certainly like to hear more about it.
great. maybe you want to lay out a few points and/or respond to my opening. alternative, i can start firing questions at you. your move.
And Tom, how about your own recantation on your “don’t waste money in the South” theory in Whistling Past Dixie? (I shouldn’t say recanting, the theory is the same, things have just evolved such that your prescription has changed.)
Tom, you can start firing away — and I’ll be answering Jane.
Hi all,
Bob this is a pretty broad question but is there a generational divide among white people in the South, comparable to what we are witnessing in other demographics?
Hi Bob and Hi Tom
So are you too hopeful, as Tom suggests, on race, religion, and social conservatism?
quickly on recanting–it’s NOT a recanting. i say in the book that the money-DISadvantaged party or candidate can’t afford to spend “keep them honest” money in no-win states. but money-advantaged parties and candidates should. obama can afford a little bit (but not much, and not everywhere) of spending in the south even if he doesn’t need or can’t win a single southern elector. but i don’t want to go on about my book. people can read recommendation 3 in chapter 7.
to coin a title of a favorite bill murray movie, “what about bob?”
Basically, my argument against the DLC-style centrism — which started to infect Southern Democratic politics in the 1970s — is that it prevented Democrats from crafting a message that appealed to Southern voters weaned on the old-style populism, which combined an economic fairness message with the bad stuff: the cultural populism of white supremacy. The Republicans took the cultural populism away from the Democrats after civil rights, and with the so-called Southern strategy (among other factors), but Democrats did not take what was still available: the role of champions of working people, the “good” part of the old populism. Instead, the Dems became Lite Republicans — “we’re more sane than them, but we’re really just like them” — to try and win white Southerners who’d already been lost to the GOP. As a result, the party’s identity blurred; who in the South, or anywhere else, now sees Democrats as the working-folks’ champion? Not many. And certainly not enough. The triangulation had a lot to do with that.
Hi Bev.
Tom and Bob, welcome to FDL.
I am a southern born and bred, life-long Liberal. I was a McGovern delegate at the county level in Kentucky in ‘72. That was a year when Kentucky split it’s ticket, going in a landslide with Nixon while simultaneously electing a Democrat (Dee Huddleston) to the Senate (running against former governor Louie B. Nunn who was one of the few people that Nixon left the White House to campaign for). Huddleston won the Senate seat by about the same per centage as Nixon took the state.
I’m reading Blue Dixie right now and so far Tom, I actually think you are both correct. Bob highlights the one way that the Dems can regain a majority in the South but as you both note, it means a lot of hard work to overcome the cultural conservatism.
And it goes to what our good friend Howie Klein here at FDL says often; we need to get more progressive Dems and fewer Dems from the Republican wing of the party.
Southern liberal from Oklahoma here, and looking forward to turning my state blue.
Great question — and yes, there’s a huge generational divide. Look at the results for Obama in Southern primaries: He won the under-45 vote in many (if not most), and the under-30 vote everywhere. That correlates with much more progressive social views among younger Southerners — on race, sexuality, and environmental issues. The Democrats in the South reluctant to vote for Obama — much like those elsewhere — are older. And that divide is more stark in the South than elsewhere.
Too hopeful? Well, we’ll have to see. I’m not predicting huge victories for Obama/Dems in 2008 — though there are openings in North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and Florida. My point is that the Democrats must continue Howard Dean’s 50-state project in some form, including during this election, to build the Democratic grassroots back up in the South to meet the opportunities coming over the next two decades with demographic shifts that are making white voters less overwhelmingly important — especially the white “backlash” voters who reacted against the ’60s.
Hi Tom and Bob:
I read Tom’s book but not Bob’s yet. I have to agree with Tom that the South (I’m a liberal Dem in NC)is a lagging indicator of American political trends in general. Tom noted in his intro that S Carolina is still fighting desegregation.
There are reasons for optimism in NC owing to the Yankeefication of key areas: the Triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill; the triad, and parts of Charlotte. Obama is running 3-6 points down here but with a big GOTV and high AA and youth turnout, a pickup here is possible.
It would be a huge mistake to try to triangulate the south with a “centrist”-it’s only viewed down here as Republican “light”.
I think a populist message could do well here-Larry Kissell is doing that as part of his campaign against Robin Hayes (NC8). I believe he will defeat Hayes this time.
The problem, as I see it, is that low information voters here have basically given up on the idea that government policy can effectively help them. They are fed a torrent of lies by Limbaugh, Hannity, and Faux News such that many honestly believe that Democrats are out of touch elitists who will only raise taxes-even they these people would never be affected by any change in tax policy that an Obama administration would consider.
The Republicans greatest competency is demonstrating government incompetence. An effective Democratic administration coupled with an effective congress that actually does improve the lives of these people will be the only way to bring them around. It could happen-but not before Nov 2008.
quick ancillary point: bob and i disagree on definitions of the region of the south. only in a few circumstances where data had to be broken down into just four major regions do i go beyond the 11 confed states, and then only to include OK and KY. i don’t count MS or WV as southern, and some people like to throw MD in too. to me, it’s the 11 confeds and, on rare occasions confed + KY/OK for simplicity purposes.
question about john edwards coming shortly.
oops….sorry that was a typo. should say MO, not MS.
of course i count MS as a southern state.
Welcome Mr Moser.
Living in Florida I see a sea change coming in the racial politics in the state. For the first time in I don’t how long Dems have registered more voters than Rethugs and now outnumber the Rethugs in most areas. The enthusiasm for Obama in the non-white community is palpable. Have you looked at Florida and, if so, what are your thoughts on the shift within the state?
Hi Bob,
We know that Georgia was one of the first states to use electronic voting (DREs) with some early unexpected results contradicting the polls by huge margins. We also know that Southerners, much as they delight in the antics of their eccentrics, are extremely conformist (church as social club). Do you think that fraudulent election results have convinced may Southerners to reject even considering Democrats because it appears that it is what their neighbors do?
bob, here’s a somewhat timely (if sad) question about edwards:
I realize he bailed early during the primaries and that the black vote in SC carried obama, thereby effectively deflating edwards’ presidential bid. But I also never got the sense that this southern populist took off with supposed white southerners YEARNING for this type of message. So, was it the message or just the messenger? Because your economic pop theory ought to have been born out by a better showing in SC by Edwards which never materialized. where was that southern populist groudnswell for edwards?
Bless you for being a lifelong Southern liberal. I agree with you about the difficulty of overcoming cultural conservatism — it’s not just entrenched but, in so many places, a given for registered Dems and Republicans alike. But I do think that, when you look at the cultural attitudes of Southerners under 45, and especially under 30, you see that the “backlash generation” is dying away in the South, and more progressive attitudes (except on the issue of abortion, I should note) should make it easier for Democrats to overcome the old cultural barriers. They simply won’t be as strong or as high.
I certainly agree that the 50 state strategy is paying dividends. It is not acceptable for the Dem party to give up on whole sections of the country.
The progressive brand needs to be established as an effective alternative to conservatism both economically and socially. Universal health care and a robust green economy with lots of new manufacturing jobs are tremendous ways to move our brand forward. People here will give their attention to anyone who brings them jobs.
There is a sea change in the racial makeup of Florida voters — not dissimilar to what we’re seeing in Texas, Georgia, NC and Virginia, among other states. The only cautionary note for Florida Democrats is that demographics are not necessarily destiny: I have spent some time in the state, and studying what’s happening, and the Republican Party’s outreach to both Hispanic and black voters there is stronger than anywhere else I’ve been. The Florida GOP seems to understand the state’s future better than most Republican parties in the South, which will make it more of a challenge for the Democrats.
I’m in Texas currently and have lived all over the country. It was far easier to be an avowed liberal when I was in the 8th CD of MA with Tip O’Neill as my Congressman than it is being in the TX 2ist and having Lamar Smith supposedly representing me.
Well, it’s possible. The strange thing about Southerners — one of them — is that there’s a powerful streak of non-conformity and individualism, married to an often even more powerful jones for conformity. There’s no doubt that Republicans in the South have become the socially acceptable white people’s club over the years — and that a whole lot of folks who vote Democratic have learned to keep quiet about it. But that, with the grassroots energy stirred up by Dean’s 50-state project and Obama’s campaign, may be changing as well.
So Obama’s “move to the center” is the worst possible combination for democratic victory in the south?
Welcome, Bob! And huge thanks to Tom for a great introduction.
As a WV resident and lifelong Democrat, I have to say the tension between the economic issues this year and inherent racial, religious and other biases is going to be an intriguing one to watch. I’d love both of your takes on how the Obama campaign and other candidates ought to be exploiting themes of poverty, economic populism, and other issues that Bob brings to the fore? Because, frankly, what has happened thus far just isn’t resonating enough here in WV, and if they don’t get better at it before the NRA and the religious right starts thumping the “gods, guns’ and gays” agenda, we are really sunk here and elsewhere. Again.
I’ve always thought that the personal stories and issues — the “kitchen table” politics so to speak — were the way to go. But I’m just not seeing it here, although it may be because WV is a longshot this year anyway. Thoughts?
Edwards didn’t really take off with Southern voters, it’s true, even though his message had many of the populist elements I recommend. The messenger was a problem: Making yourself a working-people’s champion, especially in the heavily moralistic way that Edwards did, invites accusations of hypocrisy that Edwards fed right into with the big new compound, the haircuts, and with his rather slick personality. The other factor is that Edwards, while he spoke convincingly about the moral obligations to eradicate poverty, did not create a broader message of economic fairness that spoke to middle-class voters’ concerns. It’s hard to talk about lifting up the bottom when the middle is collapsing, as William Greider says in the book, and voters know that. The new populism that works in the South has to speak to suburbanites and “office populists” along with the working class and poor.
My understanding is that the Rethugs have been reaching out primarily to the Cuban community but pretty much neglecting those from other countries. Now that the exiles are dying off the younger Cubans are walking away from the old views. Gays and abortion still play a huge part in their thinking unfortunately. The hard line immigration stance here also drove many away from the Rethugs.
FDL readers, check out this great datum Bob provides in the book: of the 1154 majority-white counties in the south (not sure how many states he is using here), kerry won just 90 in 2004, whereas Clinton won 510 in 1996. (And wasn’t the total number of majority-white counties somewhat lower than, too?)
So, a question for him: How can you reconcile your DLC/Al From/centrism critique of Clinton with these stark numbers? As you know, I think the only way to win white southerners is to compromise on some liberal and progressive values that neither you nor I would prefer. And the numbers you cite suggest that, again, economic populism sounds darn good on paper unless that paper is an electoral ballot held by a white southerner.
I don’t think Obama’s yet done the equivalent to Clintonian — or Harold Ford-style — triangulation. But he needs to be careful about blurring his message so much that he looks like another blurry, undefined Democrat. But he is not, like Ford, changing his position on gun rights to suit the NRA, or railing against “illegals,” or laughing at the very notion of gay marriage, or running around with a Bible quote to answer every question. The key for a Democrat is to present a strong message of economic fairness — and to, clearly, be himself or herself. Southern voters don’t like weasels. At least, they don’t like people who look like weasels during campaigns. Once they get in office, of course, it’s generally another story.
Bob & Tom,
Do you think the Democratic power structure has even considered that the election results which have defined attitudes towards what states are or are not in play were the result of fraud (particularly electronic) and voter suppression? Although hardly close in terms of numbers, Ohio wasn’t the only state being called for the Republicans while there were still huge lines of minorities and working people waiting to cast their votes.
That is true, I would say my experience is that there is a very strong identification in the South with “working folks,” but they do not see the Democrats as their champions.
Or rather, they see the Democrats as promoting populism in a way which (as Tom warns) is too pluralistic — i.e., “affirmative action,” “food stamps,” “welfare” and other code words for assistance to African Americans. “Health care for immigrants” is the new one. The GOP has been really good about using relatively small social expenditures to characterize the Democrats. Nobody is bitching about the big expenditures, Social Security and Medicare, but of course that benefits white working class Southerners so no problem there.
Huge missed opportunity to reframe this.
i’m a non-expert on election law and voter suppression, so i have to punt on this question and, in general, i would rather aim most if not all questions toward bob.
FDL readers who would like to engage me directly, after the salon is over, are of course always welcome to email me personally: schaller67@gmail.com
I agree with you that, in West Virginia and elsewhere, Obama’s campaign has done too little “kitchen-table” politicking. Particularly with the spiking economic insecurities of this election year, there are a whole lot of voters waiting to hear somebody make a clear case: “I’m going to help you and your family, and here’s how.” Obama’s ad attacking McCain for being ignorant of people’s economic suffering is a decent step in the right direction, but he has to make a direct connection with struggling voters. He hasn’t done it yet.
Does that have to do with messaging or the messenger?
The minute I saw Kerry in hunting gear, I went “oh Christ, that’s death.”
How does the great failures of the 110th congress play to the southern vote?
The frustrating thing is that when I was growing up here in WV, the Democratic party was the party for working folks. We’ve allowed ourselves to be utterly redefined without successfully pushing back on that from the Reagan years forward. It kills me to see working people — especially the “working poor” — vote for Republican candidates whose policies are utterly and completely going to be even more devastating to them and their families.
And yet…we’ve had 8 years of George Bush for that reason. Because we neither market ourselves properly nor do the roll up your sleeves work to back up what we ought to be fighting for. Irritating.
Absolutely agree with you, there. Am wondering if they are holding off on that intro until the convention for a fresh introduction. But I’d argue that should have been in the works for laying that foundation much, much earlier.
one of the things i learned from this book is that the black vote in the south had better not be regarded as a monolith to be taken for granted by democrats. now, that point will get lost this year because obama is the nominee, but bob’s substantiation of this claim in chapter 5 is quite compelling.
bob, would you like to explain your point in some detail for us?
Hi Bob, thaks for talking with us today.
Sara Robinson has a post here in which she discusses Brandeis historian David Hackett Fischer’s book about American culture’s roots.
From Sara:
Fischer’s basic argument — which he supports with a weighty and richly researched sociological survey that runs to 700 pages plus another 200 pages of footnotes — is that most of America’s most enduring cultural and political conflicts can be traced back to essential differences between the first four groups of English settlers, who brought four very different worldviews with them, and set deep patterns that continue to influence America’s identity and choices to this day.
The South, Fischer says, was settled by the Cavaliers, Anglicans still loyal to the crown, who believe (does this sound familiar?) that the rich deserve whatever they have, and so do the poor deserve what ever they have, and all rights derive from money and position.
I haven’t had a chance to read your book yet (egads, the piles!) but I wonder a) if the mobility of Americans renders this less potent and b) if you’ve concluded this, too, and what you think can mitigate some of the inherited cultural biases?
The short answer is that Clinton was aided immensely by Ross Perots’ presence in the races, drawing away Republican votes and lowering the “threshold” of white “Reagan Dems” that Clinton needed to win over in the South. There’s also the sheer fact that Clinton appealed to Southerners, much as he did to voters elsewhere, through his incredible powers of political charm — which he no longer possesses in such great quantities, of course! I think that Clinton was a singular phenomenon. And my point is that, while he could talk populism quite effectively, he also further blurred the Democratic “brand” during those years. A lot of people were voting for Clinton, not for the Democratic philosophy. And Clinton utterly failed to build up the decrepit Southern Democratic parties for the future.
I’m over the border a ways in Ohio. When might Obama start making the case? Time’s a-wasting.
We’ve had soothing platitudes in ad form for quite some time from McCain, and I don’t see the ones that Obama does as being effective enough.
That’s a fantastic point — and one that is also essential for consideration for hispanics and women as well. Those groups have been taken for granted far too much in terms of consistent outreach as opposed to three-months before an election scramble outreach. Thanks for asking that one, Tom!
Do I take that to mean the Obama campaign has not been setting up field offices, etc., in West Virginia, or not to the extent they are elsewhere?
ok, let’s mix it up some. there are clavicle-sized bones and femur-size bones to pick, and my femur-sized bone is in response to a quote from chris kromm (also a good southern lib) about how abandoning the south, given its poverty and economic needs and post-katrina infrastuctural situation, etc., would be a moral violation of what dems stand for.
so stipulated–but WHY OH WHY does it matter if dems get the majorities they need to run the country from there? i honestly believe that some southern dems (not bob, not chris) would rather have 20 southerners in a 49-seat senate minority, so they can wield power over the dems, than have zero senators in a 60-seat senate majority. (Btw, harry reid has 46 non-southern senators right now, and even with joe liebmantraitor gone next january, he could STILL have 51 or more non-southern senators).
my point: all the programs a dem majority and dem president could pass would still affect/help the south, whether southern votes and politicians helped produce those governing majorities.
I’ve thought for quite a while that Obama would spell out his message at the convention, then be more detailed as he stumps. I think some of the things he’s said have been trial balloons. The convention will get total national attention so that everybody hears the same message at the same time. If he’s been paying attention and addresses issues important to southerners he’s got a better chance here.
Hi Everyone –
The demographic divide between young and old is the greatest challenge for the Obama Democrats, but it is also an opportunity — the two groups that gave FDR his strongest support were African Americans and Poor Southern Whites.
Tom is correct that we cannot recreate the TVA, but we don’t have to — we just need to rekindle the memories of how FDR and the New Deal benefited those at the lowest end of the economic scale. Americans support for FDR was much higher than it was for his advisers or his programs — Democrats in general have forgotten the importance of the visceral and emotional appeal to voters, substituting wonkish policy proposals.
Just before the Mississippi Primary, the NewsHour interviewed a journalist and a polsci professor from the Magnolia state; the professor offered this comment:
Older Americans still have a reverence for FDR and the New Deal, and it is these voters Obama was referring to, when he said that they have become embittered by the neglect from the government.
The best way to reach this group is to invoke FDR, the New Deal, and the TVA — but the most potent way to use this imagery is Social Security.
FDR and the Democrats created Social Security in spite of GOP opposition. To this day, the Bush McCain leadership of the GOP wants to destroy Social Security through privatization — Bush and McCain want to turn Social Security over to the same Wall Street bankers that created the Sub Prime Real Estate Crisis.
N.B.: the Kromm quote is at the end of chapter 4 of Blue Dixie.
Younger African-American voters in the South are registering independent in greater numbers, and look far less likely to comprise a “bloc vote” for Democrats in the future. Why? For one, black Democrats in the South tend to see the Democratic Party nationally as ignoring them — partly the result of the “non-Southern” strategies of recent presidential nominees. Another reason: black Southerners are closely aligned, ideologically, with white Southerners. They tend toward social conservatism and economic liberalism. Their voting patterns since the ’60s have been largely conditioned by loyalty to the party of civil rights — and, frankly, they’ve been smarter voters in many ways than white Southerners (of which I’m one), who have tended to overlook their economic interests when voting. But Democrats are going to have to work for the black vote in the South — especially the votes of younger black evangelicals, who have been courted heavily by the GOP, with faith-based funds among other inducements.
bob, i take your point about perot surely making a marginal difference in some white-majority southern counties, but i must quibble here: perot’s worst performances in 92 and 96, mcuh as nader’s in 2000, came in the south. both did far better in the west. but for the 1948-68 period, for the most part third party candidates have historically done worse in the south than almost all other regions, at least since the civil war.
Yes. We have a local Dem office which has been doing outreach for all the candidates, but the Obama campaign hasn’t been remotely active in WV since the primary here. And they were minimally so at that point.
I think it is a mistake, given how proximate we are to PA, OH, VA, KY, and MD. Our media buys would be inherently cheaper but would have spillover potential for all those states. We do get a few ads on the airwaves, but mainly on cable. And WV has really been left feeling like they are an afterthought and “not important,” which is bad for the party as a whole not just for Obama. I’ve heard this about several states — not just here — btw.
And given the economic situation, we are ripe for the argument on “kitchen table” worries and what the Democratic party and a Democratic president would do to help them help themselves and their families over the long run. But no one is making the argument. It could be an immensely helpful foundation argument for long-term work here…and empowering for a LOT of the down-ticket races which are critical, especially school boards, city councils and county governments.
That’s correct. The Obama campaign has promised to have staff in all 50 states, but they’ve been very slow to get them into states like West Virginia or Arkansas, as the NY Times reported today. I’m concerned that the “50-state promise” might be just that — a promise.
Interesting
I know inflexibility is a tenet of the old Southern concervative. White blood lines are important in the deep south pecking order. “The old traditions is good notion” is sacred to my relatives. And you can trade on it in business and social circle, often if you don’t have it you are excluded.
Change is not gonna happen in this elite group and the Blue Collar folks in the South are in their pecking order. That is written in stone. Younger generation may see it as baggage but the keys to the kingdom are held by the old families.
Have not lived in the South since “Yankeefication” but I’ll give you that group as the industrial North moved ops South. I think disenfranchised labor is an oppotunity at the grass roots level in “Dixie”.
50 states local precinct by precinct battles are required and you have to have some bones to offer ie. healthcare, job ops, inclusion in movement that they won’t get hammered for supporting.
Polls probably reflect what is critical to these voters: can the Dems put something on the table for them to sit down to? What?
this is a smart, substantiated observation by moser here. talk to older blacks (not just in the south) and they will both complain and yet also somewhat rejoice that their kids/grandkids don’t think about and remember race struggles in the way their elders do. that means a disconnect from the reasons their grand/parents became democrats, but it’s also a nice statement about our democracy.
of course, it also produces people like armstrong williams. but let’s not EVEN go there.
Tom, thanks for hosting – I’m a great fan of yours. Bob, my copy of your book has not arrived yet so I’m just asking from the top of my head – do you think it was a mistake that the Dems virtually wrote off the South in the last decade? I grew up in the South but haven’t lived there since 1957. The change is amazing and I know many southern liberals who are voting for Obama.
FDR : Social Security = Obama : Heathcare.
in an earlier exchange with you, bob, following a Nation piece you wrote that received a lot of attention and praise, i pointed out that two factors–race and unionization–are major bulwarks to southern democratic revivalism.
we talk all the time about race. what about unions, bob?
Tom or Bob, in your opinion would choosing a running mate from a Southern state such as Tim Kaine help Obama or merely be viewed as pandering? I imagine a lot of it depends on who it is and some choices are more likely to resonate with voters than others. Some choices that might appeal to Southern voters could hurt him elsewhere and so on.
Bob, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon discussing your book.
Tom, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Everyone – Blue Dixie is a great book, if you haven’t bought one yet, there is a link above.
This has been a lively discussion, if Bob and Tom want to stay around and chat a while longer with you, it is up to them and their schedules.
Thanks all.
My great great grandfather was a Captain in the South Carolina cavalry. That alone opened a lot of doors for my family for a lot of years.
yes, thanks to jane and bev and the FDl crew, and special thanks of course to bob moser for joining us.
go. buy. his. book. now.
cheers all,
schaller
A filibuster-proof Democratic majority is going to be awfully hard to achieve and sustain without some Southerners being part of it. I also think that it’s important, for the future of progressivism in the country, that it be a movement that is not predicated in any way on regionalism — on the same old largely artificial divisions between “good, liberal North” and “bad, regressive South.” If this were still the old Democratic Party of the South, with its strong currents of cultural and racial conservatism, I’d see your point. But I think that, increasingly, the Southerners who are going to make up part of those Democratic majorities are going to be progressive, especially on economic and environmental issues.
late answer on kaine: yes, he can’t hurt! and VA is the best chance of the 11 confed states for obama to claim some southern electors, IMHO
Yes, much of my book talks about what a mistake it’s been to write off the South over the last decade. The quick and impressive results of the 50-state strategy, just since 2005, have been pretty powerful proof that Southerners will vote Democratic if the party is there asking for their votes — and getting their neighbors to do the asking.
fair enough..it would be hard to get 60 of 78 non-southern senators. but 54 or 55 is reasonable. add in a few progressive webb-like southern senators and that’s a senate worth following.
final question for bob: i rate obama’s winning chances in southern states as VA, FL, NC, GA (depending on barr, could rank lower if barr is a flop), TN, AR, TX and the rest never mind.
but i think he wins one (VA), two (VA + FL) at most.
your ranking?
I think the need for a Southern VP is less pressing this year than it’s been in the past. What really matters, I believe, is finding a nominee who can speak very powerfully to the economic populists in both the South and the Midwest — who can complement Obama’s eloquence with a more plainspoken, “regular-folk” message.
Thanks for much, everybody. Fabulous questions.
Thanks very much for visiting.
Thanks for coming, fabulous answers
Blue America upstairs with Jon Powers of NY 26th CD
Enjoyable but much too short. I was just getting started.
An interesting read. Thank you. Came late. Was wondering about the issue of “faith-based initiatives” in the south, whereby the Repubs have undue political influence peddling with economic enabling to needy families?
I was wondering: What do the corporation money in politics have to do with the decline of the Democratic brand?
Sherrod Brown?
darn, i missed it, been looking forward to this book salon. oh well…
will still get to read comments.
thanks for coming bob moser….
We’re going to get a good read on that this November in FL. Gay marriage amendment on the ballot. The reichwing Rethugs in the legislature seem to have overplayed their hand this time around. While everybody in the state is screaming about schools and taxes the legislature tried, and failed, to pass a bill allowing creationism to be taught in schools. Did not sit well with the public of all stripes. Nor are some of the amendments that were put on the ballot by petition. Almost all from fundie/reichwing groups.
That would be the corporatist Dems allowing the brand to fall apart since they go after the money as Republican lite and lose the ability to offer a progressive alternative.
But that means a lot of them. Look at all the DLC’ers & Blue Dogs we have in the Senate and House
Which is kinda the point of the book; offering a means to reinvigorate the Dem party in the south.
And it goes with Howie/Blue America’s drive for better, progressive Dems and not more members from the Republican wing of the Democratic Party
From CNN’s Political Ticker. Seems Carly Fiorina got after Dean for saying this:
“If you look at folks of color, even women, they’re more successful in the Democratic Party than they are in the white, uh, excuse me, in the Republican Party,” Dean said Friday in an appearance on NPR’s “Tell Me More” program.
Too funny.
Truth hurt, Carly?
Is there one African-American Republican in Congress?
That would be Al Gore