Morning, David.

I know more than one military man and woman stationed overseas who cannot wait to rotate back once the job over there is done and complete the work of fighting all enemies foreign AND domestic, Posse Comitatus be damned, and hunt down the Copperheads in our midst.

What’s that mean? Are these soldiers O’Falafel lovers? Or ones who can’t stand BillO, Hannity and Rush?

These issues have, of course, never been discussed on Bill O’Reilly’s Fox News program.

Huh. Maybe there is such a thing as bad publicity.

Ten-year-old potty-mouthed brats, all of them.

heh. Present, asshole.

After 20+ years of right wing radio and commentators demonizing Democrats, liberals and progressives how can anyone be surprised that it has finally become “open season” on the left. Don’t expect the mainstream corporate media to connect the dots because they are, if not complicit, quite lazy and just plain dimwitted. The right wing is populated with more than enough twisted foot soldiers to do the bidding of Hannity, Limbaugh et al.

we “Nazis” on the left are responsible…

that one always leaves me shaking my head. *Somebody* doesn’t know their left from their right, and I’m pretty sure it’s not me….

Hi David,

Are you aware that the block quote repeats in the final two paragraphs? Looks like maybe an inadvertent paste.

Yeah, I thought the same thing.

Thanks David. It sounds like Bill, Rush Pills Limbaugh, and
and some others have been screaming:

Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?

i let downstairs know……fdl really needs to get some kind of alert of new postings to notify the satellite threads.

digg

I can only imagine the outrage when the “contributors” to these blogs realize that they are “domestic terrorists” and thus subject to all of the protections afforded US citizens under the Patriot and Protect America acts. If either of the gunmen belonged to the NRA, I think that the entire membership should be subject to government scrutiny etc, etc …..Someone needs to point out to them that they most probably are under scrutiny by virtue of their postings on those sights. And the government doesn’t need warrants!

in wingnuttialand, this violence falls under the same category as–i wouldn’t have hit her if she wouldn’t have been mouthing off.

David,

I fear that we, too suffer from a chronic case of jumping to conclusions. We do not as yet know the real motives of the man who killed two people and injured others at the Unitarian Universalist church. It turns out that his ex-wife is a UU and he had been actively attending UU functions and a UU summer institute many years ago. As he is still alive to testify I would hope that we would want to find out more before jumping on a bandwagon. That’s way too easy to do and just mimics what we complain about from the wing nuts.

Yes, he did have hateful books on his shelf. I’ve got some pretty weird ones myself as I’ve got lots and lots of books. Though I was ready to go there at first blush and react to the first information coming out, I’m aware that there’s lots more to learn about what happened. It’s been a great reminder and wake up call for me.

I think we’re all aware that violent fantasies can crop up in blog comments at both ends of the political spectrum. Seems like progressive sites are more likely to edit them out although I confess that I have rarely ventured to any of the wingnut sites. In most cases, people are simply venting with the assistance of some ill-advised malevolent hyperbole. Probably only one percent or less would seriously like to harm people, although that still translates into way too many misguided individuals. Factor in that nearly all the gun nuts gravitate to the right-wing-o-sphere and a disturbing pattern appears.

The events where terroristic. Hate misplaced in Nazi Germany was enable by a propaganda machine. The “Brownshirts” justified their terror as did the KKK in “perceived dysfunctional absolutisms” promoted by fascists. The line between first amendment rights and hate mongering becomes fuzzy. Skokie Ill., comes to mind. Emotional issues make people do crazy things in hard economic times when liberty is maybe ripped from life! Opportunist will always exploit these hot button issues. $700 billion dollar a year is a lot of “Liberty” leaving America?

I think the giveaway on the Knoxville shooter, RevDeb, was that manifesto he wrote that parroted all those things in the books on his shelf. No doubt his familiarity with the UU church helped him select the target, but the motivation … I don’t think that’s in question any longer.

BTW, I am going to reply to your thoughtful note to me. It arrived the day my father-in-law had a heart attack, so I’ve been a bit preoccupied. But I will get to it.

OT – the 2d Circuit strikes again….

US court rules Saudis not liable for Sept 11 attacks

Upholding a 2006 decision by a lower court, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan ruled inadmissible a lawsuit in which families of victims of the 9/11 attacks charged that Saudi Arabia, four Saudi princes, a Saudi charity and bank had given material support to Al-Qaeda.

The court in its ruling said the “Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976″ granted the Saudi defendants immunity from prosecution on US soil.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/U…..142008.htm

This is a very imprtant post David, thank you.

Hopefully the next Democrat administration will better fund the DHS to better protect us from domestic terror. The Global War on Terror cannot be lost and must be fought as actively in the Homeland as abroad.

An active citizen base to report deviant behavior, through checking of medical records, communication use and consumer records are all vital tools in securing our safety from domestic terror.

The news outlets should be reminding us of this very serious threat posed by domestic terrorists. I hope the next administration deploys you for this task.

O’Reilly and friends like to project their values on us. But with a Blackman very likely to President the Righties are loosing it, because for them its the Apocalypse.
Doesn’t Germany have some anti hate laws concerning the media? Maybe we can push for that this campaign.

Whats the name of the judge and who appointed him?

I’m still reserving judgement. Being that it’s one of our churches and more information is coming around through our channels—not for public dissemination—I’m not ready to go there yet, manifesto or not. Like I said, it was a big reminder to me to wait before pouncing, something that I’m usually all too willing and ready to do.

Very good point they threaten violence the site managers never remove the stuff so we can assume they approve where is the FBI on this they monitor stuff for terror threats right.
Condi was thinking of running she still might be in the running as VP you would think that she would have an interest in stopping this kind of violence.

Condi is concerned with having people removed that might interfere with her shopping

Condi was thinking of running she still might be in the running as VP you would think that she would have an interest in stopping this kind of violence.

That would seem to attribute good intentions and competence to Condi I have never observed but maybe she has been holding back for the past eight years.

The GOP will never do anything that might disenfranchise gun-lovers, no matter how sensible. Party leaders look at the untimely death of a few innocent people as a small price to pay for winning elections and anyway, INDTIYAR (It’s not domestic terrorism if you are Republican).

If the economy goes the way many think it will, further and further down, I fear that we may see repeated incidences of violence, of “going postal” so to speak. Will the targets be political? Will they be leaders of social movements? Who knows. But rather than help the situation, the reich wing will always try to find someone to blame and will bloviate about it long and hard. That will certainly appeal to a segment of the population who needs someone or something to blame for their own misfortunes.

I am concerned that we will be seeing more and not less of this kind of behavior.

The police should check out his programmed selections on his car radio. They’d probably find a lot of right-wing hate radio stations.

it is starting increasingly to look like yet another case in which an unhinged wingnut decided to “take out” more liberals

David – I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but could you provide some evidence of this, please?

They did, it turned out he spent all his time listening to Raffi.

Booman printed out a list of statements by Reactionary Talk Radio and a some reactionary teevee commentators yesterday. I’ve printed them out and will post them on my door. Most people do not know how truly vile these people are. Apart from the fact that they are not targeting Jews (at least not yet), there’s no difference between their spew the stuff the Nazi’s were putting out in the 1920s (by the 1930s they had moved from words to actions).

David – I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but could you provide some evidence of this, please?

I agree with Ralph I’d like to see some evidence.

I think the title of this article is ironic.

This case in Arkansas may have nothing to do with politics. It seems to have something to do with a guy who was depressed and alone who owned a lot of guns. That’s all I’ve seen in the news reports. Why he chose Gwatney as his victim isn’t the least bit clear. For all we know, he could have felt like he’d been cheated by one of the family’s dealerships.

When we know more I think we can start pointing fingers. Meanwhile, I think we should reflect on what we do know about this case, and think about how to keep people from becoming so isolated and bitter, and whether we want to allow people who are being prescribed anti-depressants should be allowed to have firearms.

I’m not sure it helps to demonize Conservatives. If we are all at war with each other, those whose goal is to improve nothing win.

The main evidence, such as it is, is the stash of 14 guns and the note. Most of the people I know (though not all) who have that many guns are right-wingers, especially if they do it for security purposes rather than collection (and this man’s guns were not collector items). The note indicates he set out to specifically target Gwatney; the reasons for that are still unknown, but most of the time when public figures are targeted by complete strangers, it is because they have been in the news or because of their public activism.

These are mere indicators, of course. All I’m saying is that the appearances so far indicate a potential political motive.

David, I wish you had more evidence than that. I mean, Gwatney was a car dealer, so some wacko might think he had all sorts of reasons to be ticked at him. Gwatney was also a Hillary super-delegate (iirc), so if there were political reasons, they might not have been right-wing political reasons. It’s simply not cool to point fingers at the “right wing” without some sort of real evidence – that’s what their side does. I’d hope we were better.

I disagree. We must fight fire with fire i.e. announce G Bush and company encouraged the Georgian president to goad Russia and denounce that act cowboy politics. Let them protest they didn’t do it. Honor is all well and good, but if you’re in a bar room brawl while you’re waiting for the right thing to come along, you will have your head handed to you. What’s wrong with accusing O’Reilly? More likely than not he and his ilk are responsible. By the time you get your irrefutable proof, events will pass you by. You will look like you don’t have the brains to get out of the rain. Ask Kerry.

Absolutely wrong, ekunin. Everything else in David’s article is spot-on and well-sourced, and more than enough to make the point he’s trying to make. So why spoil it by making an unsupported accusation in the first paragraph? THAT’s the kind of thing that ruins credibility, especially if it turns out later to be untrue.

Bush got far with little or no credibility. Things move too fast these days for niceties. While emulating Bush is ugly, the fact remains his lie is out there today and honest rebuttal doesn’t show up for days or weeks. There’s enough evidence to assert Bush at least confused the president of Georgia. Enough to accuse him. Put the ball in his court.