Today’s Georgia news focuses on the terms of the "cease fire." The Russians handed French President Sarkozy the list of what they wanted to impose on the Georgians. The Russians aren’t done yet, Georgian control over disputed regions is likely finished, and international oversight isn’t nailed down. Bush is sending Rice to check the barn doors.
The Bush Administration is scrambling to simultaneously claim credit and deflect blame. In conveying the Administration’s alibi for allowing Georgia to stumble into an unwinnable war against Russia, the Times’ Helene Cooper and Thom Shanker also reveal how the Administration confused the public and private messages it was sending both the Georgians and the Russians. The obvious questions: Could the Administration have prevented the war and its humiliating defeat for Georgia (and itself)? And what if McCain had been President?
Like Jonathan Landay’s reporting for McClatchy, Cooper/Shanker detail the Administration’s insistence that they repeatedly warned Georgia’s President Saakashvili not to let the Russians provoke them into war.
In the five days since the simmering conflict between Russia and Georgia erupted into war, Bush administration officials have been adamant in asserting that they warned the government in Tbilisi not to let Moscow provoke it into a fight — and that they were surprised when their advice went unheeded.
But they also report that at critical moments, the Administration either sent mixed signals to the parties or simply failed to treat the matter with the seriousness it clearly required.
On the evening when hostilities were about to lunge out of control, Rice left a second tier State official the task of warning the Georgians, when what was clearly needed was to have President Bush himself remove any ambiguity about US policy (remember Cheney’s threat) and tell the Georgians in no uncertain terms to stop, that Georgia could not expect US help.
What was their excuse for not using the President (aside from his Olympic distraction)?
Ms. Rice did not get on the phone with her Georgian counterpart on Thursday, but left it to Mr. Fried to deliver the “don’t go in” message, a senior administration official said. “I don’t think it would have made any difference if she had,” the official said. “They knew the message was coming from the top.”
The Times article also notes the story Marcy Wheeler cited at emptywheel yesterday revealing the US had 1000 US troops (including military police) in a joint military exercise with Georgian forces just weeks before the war broke out. This crucial fact has been mostly ignored in recent US accounts, but it raises major questions about what message the US was trying to send and to whom.
A nation doesn’t undertake joint military exercises on Russia’s borders for no reason; it does so because it’s contemplating plausible scenarios in which both armed forces engage a common adversary.
Two points seem relevant here: First, even accepting the Administration’s claim that the US was not told of Georgian intentions, a line that both the Cooper and Landay stories make doubtful, the Georgians could reasonably have interpreted joint US exercises as a signal that Bush would help them in a crisis, no matter what Condi Rice was telling Saakashvili.
Second, the Russians knew about the joint exercise (and conducted their own); indeed such events are often designed to warn or intimidate, if not provoke an adversary. If the joint military exercise was intended as a bluff to convince the Russians the US would support the Georgians — as it would a NATO member — it was (1) incredibly reckless and (2) incredibly stupid, because no one would believe it: was there any doubt that Georgia was more important to the Russians than to the US? It was also (3) a complete failure. Putin called Bush’s bluff and humiliated Bush at Georgia’s expense.
If John McCain had been President, either of two things could have happened under this scenario, given his more belligerent stance towards Russia and the now glaring conflict of interest of the neocon ex-lobbyist-for-Georgia who advises him: Either McCain’s Sheunemannian bluff would have been called and both would now look as reckless and disingenuous as Bush, or we would now be facing war with Russia.
Of course, our media will continue to report this episode as revealing McCain’s superior claim to be Commander in Chief, but at least Saakashvili is no longer fooled; he probably wants a refund from Scheunemann and an explanation about whatever McCain led him to believe.
Related posts:
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- The Doctor’s Fix Debacle: Reid Claims He was “Misled” by AMA on Deal for GOP Votes
- The Anti-Bush, Or Bush Lite?
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If the administration would stop trying to manage the public relations as its first priority, and instead make real diplomacy its first priority, things might have worked out better. But no, they were too busy trying to manage perceptions rather than deal with the “real” world.
Bob in HI
Can Bush actually feel humiliation?
Hi Scarecrow, Condi’s busy giving a presser right now on her upcoming trip
Is she giving stern looks? She’s excellent at that.
rather than deal with the “real” world.
The *real* world? Why would they wanna start paying any attention to that now?
And would they recognize it, even if it bit them in….? I dunno, I’m still waiting for the *real* world to bite their oblivious asses somewhere, somehow….
Just a note: Holbrooks on WJ this morning said he didn’t know how many US troops were in Georgia, but “don’t hold me to it,” he thought there were around 100.
This was a bold victory for the Georgians. They bravely abandoned their equipment and hopped into civilian vehicles to escape a potential battle as bravely as the Iraqi military did in Gulf War I.
Heckuva job Chimpiavelli.
-G
She is in her teacher role.
Hi Scarecrow, Condi’s busy giving a presser right now on her upcoming trip.
“I plan to get over there just as soon as possible. And to that end, I’ve been shopping like mad in preparation. I estimate that the crucial shoe-finding mission is now almost complete, and I should be able to leave withing the month”.
Here’s my Q. Doesn’t this damage Russian standing with other former Soviet sphere of influence countries like Ukraine? Can’t say that it was a terribly smart move on their part either.
Thanks; not where I can watch. Let us know what she says.
Thank you for this analysis, Scarecrow. It’s a complicated situation which you are helping me understand better.
Digg this post
If you were Poland how excited would you be about getting all those missles that Russia doesn’t want you to have.
Condi will be providing boots on the ground.
There have been 100 or so US “trainers” in Georgia for some time; for the “joint exercise,” they apparently brought in about a 1000 from Germany. I suspect what Holbrook is hinting is that he doesn’t know whether that 1000 left after the exercises or are still there.
Did Bush really tell her to try to catch a Braves game while she was in Georgia?
What do you think the Russians would do if Poland sez yes? Bomb them? Invade them? No recourse for Russian and Poland’s much more likely to do it out of spite now.
Why am I thinking back to the time when Bush daddy and co. sent mixed messages to Saddam about invading Kuwait ?
Here in Hawaii, we call that “stink eye.” And yeah, Condi’s pretty good at that. However, she generally uses it on the wrong people.
Bob in HI
If that’s what Holbrooke meant, why didn’t he say that? It’s a simple declarative sentence with words of one syllable.
Ding.
Democrat shot in Arkansas…
http://www.wdsu.com/news/17181332/detail.html
Eh Bra! You no make dat Stink eye at me!
Condi sez that it’s time to move on from the Cold War to an era where policy is respectful of soverignty of nations.
No reporter challenged he on that statement, of course.
jmho, this is probably a better link on that story. Updates will come in constantly.
CNN just announced that the suspect (not the DNC guy) has died.
The Poles actually went wobbly on this matter already. The new leader, Tusk, is much more reticent than the previous PM in regards to allowing missles.
Russia won’t likely invade, but they’ll tell the Poles, fine, we’ll just retarget some of our 7,200 nukes your way. Enjoy your US funded umbrella of protection!
The real question is what is Europe(non-former Soviet Bloc)thinking about the US push for weapons on Russia’s doorstep.
Berlusconi offered some very conciliatory words towards Russia on this recent Georgian war matter.
The US has been provoking proxy wars all over the place and keeps on losing them.
The Hamas/Fatah fight was lost. The Hezbollah/Israel fight was lost. Now this.
-G
to move on from the Cold War…
geez, that statement is stupid on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start.
I hope she doesn’t get held up trying to get past The Berlin Wall….
If you watched Holbrook on PBS NewHour last night, he was quite one sided on who was responsible — citing all the Russian provocations but none of the ones others cite from Georgians (the other panelist mentioned both). So from Holbrooks’ point of view, he probably doesn’t want to concede the Georgians did anything provocative, and mentioning the joint military exercise with 1000 US troops would not help him. Just my guess.
Because betrayal is their middle name.
As Jon Stewart pointed out last nite, our UN Ambassador remembered to attach the “in Europe” qualifier. Condi needs to work on that. It’s her sole claim to credibility on the subject of sovereignty.
You wonder who the targets are for Condi’s message to get over the Cold War? Bush? Cheney? McCain? Scheunemann?
Condi is going not McSame
The point I was making is that you can argue the position of former Soviet states and satellites both ways. Yor way makes sense, as does the opposite and I have no idea which way it will fall out (nuclear ref. unintended). Probably some of both.
Of all positions, though, Russia’s is easiest to understand. Surrounded by US and US surrogates. Had to take a stand, which doesn’t mead where they chose to draw the line will work out in their favor. They’re rolling in oil dough, so they can afford to play around. Which also doesn’t guaranty wise decisions.
Agree with your assessment of US losing proxy wars. But like the drunk at the party who thinks that if he sez it one more time and a little bit louder, surely everyone will understand. W et al seem determined to keep doing it until everyone understands. Kind of spiral where failure creates need to even more of the same.
Hmmmmm. It appears that the Georgians believed it, which is even more incredibly stupid.
The neocons, which includes all of McCains foreign-policy advisors, are, almost all, deferrment brats who have no military experience but are long on swagger, opions, and delusions of imperial grandeur. It is very dangerous to let them play adult games outside of the Middle East.
OT, for connoisseurs of bad writing -
He did same on WJ this morning. Gave no ground. Georgians are all white and Russians are all black. And to think that he’ll get a top post in an Obama administration.
On WJ, one of the callers accused him of being a neocon. He got quite huffy.
OT Cindy McCain taken to hospital
Tusk is encumbered, however, with a belligerent, paranoid, Bush-friendly president, Kaczynski, who jetted off to Tbilisi against his prime minister’s will to sabre rattle.
I love it. I want read the rest. Not.
Unsurprising from someone who supported the invasion of Iraq and who, earlier, implemented to first test case of “regime change”, in Kosovo and Serbia.
Link?
(You really do need to learn to bring a link when you drop info like this into a thread)
If the administration would stop trying to manage the public relations as its first priority, and instead make real diplomacy its first priority, things might have worked out better.
This Administration tries to manage the Public Relations first whether its war,the economy or Condi and McCain fighting over the last pair of Ferragamo shoes.
Why because they suck at solving problems.
On WJ this morning he also got huffy when a caller pointed out the Kosovo analogy. Said it was’t at all similar, as you might expect. I was surprised at the antipathy almost all of the callers showed toward him, on both D & R lines.
one paragraph is plenty. less is more.
Was a brief item on CNN. Think I heard them say pain in the hand.
whether he can or can’t, is there any left??? seems to me all of that one man’s humiliation-meter is running on total empty.
Sorry my comment at 43 was suppose to be a reply to BobSchacht at 1
Saw it on CNN could’t find link
Don’t see anything yet on CNN website.
neo-con weasel frederick kagan is on cspan irght now–summary of georgia ‘war’. almost finished? -hosted by american enterprise institute.-would be worth going to the archives for this one.
Cindy McCain story on CNN right now. Rope line, enthusiatic supporter shook her hand, exacerbating carpal tunnel syndrome. Hospital sez minor strain.
I think I heard a blurb on NPR that said that Russia was conducting summery executions in Georgia. How seasonal of them.
Sounds to me like defferment Dick has his pawprints all over this. Perhaps this was the consolation prize Bush gave him for upsetting him with N. Korea deal and Iraq “time horizon” (aka timeline). Bush probably did not realize that this is a lot more dangerous as the Russians have real nuclear weapons and are not afraid to use them on their former republics. Bush probably figured that having Condi – an expert on Soviet/Russian military – would secure a positive outcome; Bush just did not count on Condi’s incompetence even in an area of “expertise.”
If you were Poland how excited would you be about getting all those missles that Russia doesn’t want you to have.
Great observation is George W Bush’s plan to put antimissile missiles in the former Warsaw pact and Soviet Republics dead?
This is Huge!
i love that contest!, the contest in which to haunt the blameless shards our minds put to rest they cover us with dramamine phrases from all over our sea-to-shining-sea expanses!!!
rofl!!!
You sure that CNN didn’t say “Bottle of pain pills” in the hand?
(I know, low brow, but if you’re gonna dish it, you better be able to take it)
Russian tanks on move again in Georgia, reports CNN. Did they see Condi’s presser?
Via CNN, Indi Russian news agency reporting “US must choose between Georgia and Russia”
And we’ve got the keystone kops in charge….
A chastened Russia has just told the US: You are either with us or with Georgia.
-G
frederick kagan is still on TV cool whatever he says bet the opposite his ability to be wrong is uncanny its like the entire family read Sun Tze…backwards.
Thanks for the heads up. Enjoying the neoconsgoing apoplectic.
OT:
Little Rock Police confirm assailant shot dead.
Via CNN, Indi Russian news agency reporting “US must choose between Georgia and Russia”
Vlad is mad at Bush for something he is intentionally trying to humiliate a very spoiled child despite knowing how spoiled children react.
I’m sure the entire Kremlin is watching CNN and Laughing.
Saakashvili is running Munich up the flagpole.
It’s the 1930’s again!
-G
Why?
Maybe you have to careful when you are Size 0….I wouldn’t know.
Saakashvili is thumbing every European in the eye by saying that the US is the only democracy that doesn’t capitulate to threats.
Say goodby to Italy, France and Germany you idiot.
-G
Guantanamo 2.0.
-G
Arianna’s got it.
Cindy McCain Hospitalized
Ralph Peters seems not to know that military exercises were occurring on both sides of the border. He’sbloviating bout how the Russian military action was all preplanned and pretimed.
Enjoying the neoconsgoing apoplectic.
They’re so cute when they get all purply-faced, huh?
Thinking a big bowl of popcorn could be appropriate.
It’s OXY-time!!! in the McSame casa!!!!
I’m sorry if the lady got hurt. But what a timely, perfect “shiny object” this is.
Maybe she aggravated it at the buffalo chip contest
McSame conducting business for Scheuneman now on CNN
Cindy McCain Hospitalized
Hey – rub some dirt on it.
No crying in politics….
a recurrence of Carp Pill Tunnel: Sinned, Roam?
Presumptive Haig sending his acolytes Lieberman and Graham to Georgia.
I just did something brilliant. I have a 60 something friend who’s a native of Ukraine. She’s lived in US for most of her life but has relatives in Ukraine. We’re going to have dinner tonight, so i can get a read on how its playing in another ex Soviet state.
McSame talking about Ronnie Raygun speaking forcefully – probably forgot Beirut
(CNN) – Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili on Wednesday called for John McCain and other American leaders to do more for Georgia in their response to the conflict in his country.
“Yesterday, I heard Sen. McCain say, ‘We are all Georgians now,’” Saakashvili said on CNN’s American Morning. “Well, very nice, you know, very cheering for us to hear that, but OK, it’s time to pass from this. From words to deeds.
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..-to-deeds/
McCain and the Neocons have been called out. Sure they will try and blame this on us but thanks to their STUPID WAR IN IRAQ we both know that we don’t have any troops to spare for an even stupider war on the borders of Russia.
When do you plan to dish he details?
I love the way everyone in he world is treating W as though he doesn’t exist.
Again…(shaking head)….
You never responded to my earlier apology.
We are adults. Even when you’re not around.
Sorry should be
When do you plan to dish the details
In the 21st Century, nations don’t invade other nations, says McCain on CNN.
He forgot the magic words: in Europe.
McSame ” in the 21st century nations don’t invade other nations”
We’re eating at Zarelas, a very good Mexican restaurant that serves delicious frozen margheritas in a variety of flavors, which I expect I’ll have a few. So I’ll report this evening if I can walk a straight line. Otherwie tomorrow.
http://www.zarela.com/modules……#038;pid=2
I love the way everyone in he world is treating W as though he doesn’t exist.
The rest of the world is obviously smarter than Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi….
It’s a beautiful thing.
-G
I heard there was a George Bush Super highway or blvd. in Georgia. You wouldn’t think the Russians bombing runs would turn it back into a cow path just for sh**s and giggles ,would you?
here’s the aei thing
here’s the aei release for the event
http://www.aei.org/events/even…..detail.asp
here’s the panel/show aired on cspan, couldn’t find when they are going to re-air it.
click on the red button
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/…..d=280436-1
frederick kagan is toward the beginning.
yeah, i love it, great entertainment and looove hearing them parse their talking points. and what they leave out….
see link at 94.
I guess we invaded Iraq in the last century.
George Bush’s foreign policy accomplishments
1) Moral Cred gone no WMD, the United States does not torture,
2) Diplomatic Cred gone we won’t help our allies or punish our enemies even if there is an oil pipeline on the line.
3) GW’s plan for an antimissile missile system very likely gone
and ecahn–in these kinds of settings, they love to hear their own voices uninterrupted, they slip up and spill something, every time. then spill more trying to clean it up.
yayah.
Excellent observation.
yeah, i’d prefer to see the world treating him like the criminal he is, issuing warrants and tracking him down, cuffs, chains, indictments, measuring him for his new diggs in a cell at a black site someplace.
Plus John McCain and the NeoCons just got called out for talking tough when we know that either they are going to do nothing or something extremely stupid…which is just what the Russians are counting on.
yeah, ecahn, biiiiig bowl, maybe a cocktail….it’s great.
i’m looking on the schedule to tape it later, but can’t find it, so, will watch online again….is a keeper.
dems should be using it for a training tape on how they operate. irght out in the open. unreal.
lol
Food looks good:)
First things first. First they laugh at him, then they put him on trial. At least I’m hoping that the Ghandi thing gets turned on its head in this casse.
I didn’t see an apology but I also didn’t see a need for an apology.
When I was asking for a link and expressing that it helps to bring one when dropping something into a thread such as the info that Cindy McCain has been taken to the hospital it is to hopefully benefit all of us.
Sorry if you don’t approve of my action.
why do you think i like watchn’ this stuff?????? and listening to the sloths on the am radio?
cspan junkie from back when it started.
but the panels are my favorite.
rofl!!!
I knew it McCain was at Nap Time instead of all the Senate Armed Forces committee meetings on Iraq!
Like Rachel Maddow said, “[McCain] and whose army.”
Tough talking conservatives, like Bush and McCain, have gotten our forces pinned down in their war of vanity, where the only thing they’re fighting for is bragging rights. And now those same conservative fools want to start more wars with Iran and Russia.
And, at the strategic level, they are simply furthering bin Laden’s stated objective of bankrupting the United States.
Exactly what relevant experience does McCain actually have? In the only war he has ever been in, he fought on the losing side and spent most of this time as a prisoner.
Best part is how the neocons are panning W and praising Putin, and how upset they are about how stupid the former and how brilliant the latter. Distress in high dudgeon.
Now I really wish that I had TV right now!
I heard there was a George Bush Super highway or blvd. in Georgia. You wouldn’t think the Russians bombing runs would turn it back into a cow path just for sh**s and giggles ,would you?
Oh, that’d be rich…..
it’ll be tomorrow then. lol.
have fun.
i don’t remember anyone laughing at past war criminals before trial. of course, the decidermiester is a far far funnier guy. Definitely a lot to laugh at there.
they’re strokin’ him while they figure out how to steal his wallet.
He knows how to win wars. Even though the only war he fought in was lost.
-G
Where is Obama on this Just how Irresponsible is it to threaten war with an other oil producing country that has NUKES!
Does John want $10 a gallon gas?
Is that why the oil companies are giving him so much money?
I left two apologies.
“You really need to learn to…” comes across as authoritative to me.” Not the same as wow, I’d love to read that link.
Just me.
Does John want $10 a gallon gas?
I think that trying to impute a motive or strategy to McLame’s words might be an exercise in futility.
Didn’t I hear on KO that McBrain’s campaigh has taken his cell-phone away from him, so that he’d stop making his position-of-the-day based upon conversation with the last person he spoke to?
they don’t wnat bush anywhere near it–too much money invested to screw it up now, too many years to get here, and it’s too complicated for him, too many lobbyists and legislators involved. hard to keep track.
q and a time–aei rules announced–put your statement in the form of a question. oh, this is rich.
i didn’t take it that way, because dakine is always a gentleman. always being instructive when needed…so, i think he was simply being helpful…foothills often doesn’t mention that he’s seeing it on the tube….forgets.
: )
AEI guys think Ukraine, esp Crimea (big ethnic Russian population), is next Russian target. Soln is to help arm Ukraine & improve their military. Like the Ukrainian military could ever be competitive with Russian in our lifetimes. And we’re so good at training foreign militaries, like Iraq’s and Vietnam’s.
ThinkProgress has McCain’s line about nation’s not invading other nations in the 21st century.
He’s playing conservative lite. No daylight between him and McCain, but his tone will be more “artful.”
Something sad about how long it took for them to catch on….As we say in TX….a village just lost its idiot. We keep saying it for its truth.
What Commander-in-chief material! His troops take away his cell phone. Next they’ll be spoon feeding him Pablum.
McInsane has already made the choice for us. We’re all Georgians, remember?
You don’t suppose that Johnny Be Bad is confusing his Georgias again, and that he thinks this is part of his Southern Electoral Strategy, do you?
Bob in HI
OT Denver getting ready with its own Gitmo
http://cbs4denver.com/denver20…..93930.html
I find this characteristic of McCain encouraging. We just need to get him on speed dial.
OMG Mike~
The pics look EXACTLY like Children of Men!!!!!
Wikipedia has just corrected the spelling of Bush it is lexiconologically correct spelling A S S H O L L A H
Here’s another observation about the AEI seminar. Where is the instant analysis seminar on the other side? The press is lapping up the neocon talking points, which will be the frame for how all the coverage goes from here on. Once again, the other side is caught flat footed.
I’m so damned glad i don’t live in DenCo anymore!
Total police state in that city. It always has been!
At first I thought John McCain was the most presumptuous candidate for President I’d ever heard, by telling the leader of an invaded nation that “we are all Georgians.” Then I realized that he probably thought he was talking to Saxby Chambliss or Johnny Isakson. Surely he would use his head a little better if he knew where this Georgia is.
Didn’t I hear on KO that McBrain’s campaigh has taken his cell-phone away from him, so that he’d stop making his position-of-the-day based upon conversation with the last person he spoke to?
reply
Snark or real because we could have some real fun with this.
Damn right, I say we shouldn’t invade Canada!
Jeffco is a little better
Same ol crap the US government promises countries support then leaves them stranded high and dry with a crisis USA encouraged that they are left to manage. The shock doctrine in operation. As a global economy the world is our oyster hence everywhere is defined as an area of vital interest.
Din’t anyboby ever tell her didn’t anybody ever say…mondays on the phone to Martha…
Condi Neocaon Rice policy to globalize the world into a corporate oligarchy is costing Middle America dearly. The trsdgedy is who is watching the store? Abe?
Christy a couple of flights up on inept criminals running governments.
The white house is in posesession of 25 MORE war plans each for a different country. They are out of their fucking minds. We need an impeachment to stop it now.
I just heard Neil Cavuto on faux noise say that Democrats and their policies were responsible for the war in Georgia. The cover up is in full gear.
OT Denver getting ready with its own Gitmo
Orwellian…no politiical dissent will be tolerated in the new Amerika.
All subject must cease and disist dissageeable behavior against politicians who know what is best for you. If you do not accept slavery you will be detained by Big Brother unless of course you have wealth and do not have to work.
All that local polise grants for anti terrorism activity…guess where that is going?
I have that on my rear bumper
Sorry Scarecrow, the doorbell rang and I never got to watch any more of it.
but it was on CSPAN — 27 minutes
wonder if the large hadron collider will end the world before the Bushes do?