Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, countries on the edge of current day Russia have struggled to maintain a degree of autonomy, if not total independence, from Russian domination. The US and Europe found it in their strategic interests to foster this development, because they favored democratic regimes and wanted a check — a new containment — on renewed Russian expansion. That policy is now unraveling as Russian armed forces have entered Georgia, possibly intent on forcing regime change.
Today’s New York Times contains an excellent, must read article by James Traub. He provides an informed history of Georgia’s efforts to remain independent of Russia, and the efforts of South Ossetia and the Black Sea region of Abkhazia to remain autonomous from Georgia, efforts that served Russia’s interests and now form its excuse for invading both regions and Georgia. It seems many locals, fearing Georgia, would likely approve.
No one ever doubted that Russia, if provoked or given the right pretense and expansionist mood, could overwhelm Georgian forces, while claiming to be intervening only to protect each province’s autonomy from Georgia.
US strategic interests thus required we walk a careful line, on the one hand encouraging the success of democratic regimes, and on the other making sure neither we nor the leaders of those regimes provoked the Russian bear into intervening. With Russian forces now bombing Georgia and sending tanks and troops towards Georgian cities, that US policy is now in shambles, and there doesn’t seem to be much the US or Europe can do about it except fly Georgia’s 2,000 troops back from Iraq.
Since the Bush Administration has pursued policies no different from McCain’s, it was curious to see the esteemed pundits on Sunday’s bobblemania opining that yet another failure in US policy shows the superiority of John McCain’s foreign policy experience and judgment. First it was George Will on ABC’s This Week declaring that the episode revealed that Obama’s "initial response" was inadequate.
However, if you look at the actual responses by Obama and McCain, it’s hard to discern any meaningful differences, beyond tone. As Bumiller and Falcone report in the Times, both candidates urged the parties to refrain from further escalating the situation and both expressed concern about Russia violating Georgia’s sovereignty. Both called upon Russia to withdraw its forces from Georgia.
Then David Broder on Meet the Press praised McCain’s "prescience":
GREGORY: David Broder, is this a 3 AM moment in foreign policy for these candidates?
MR. BRODER: It is, and it’s particularly a moment where John McCain can claim to have been prescient, because in his basic foreign policy speech two months ago and in an interview that I did with him last week, he draws a very sharp line when it comes to Russia, says these people are being aggressive and imperialist. There is no confusion in his mind about the character of the Putin/Medvedev government. And he is prepared, I think, to make the case that this is a demonstration of exactly what he has been arguing for.
No one asked Broder how McCain’s threat to remove Russian from the G-8 was helpful or would have discouraged the Russians from invading Georgia, nor how McCain’s "prescience" negated Russia’s overwhelming advantages in the region. Neither pundit explained how McCain (or the US) could do much more than protest the Russian incursion or threaten to take the matter to a certain veto at the UN, which is what Secretary Rice will likely do.
To be sure, Obama’s campaign pointed out that McCain’s top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, "lobbied for and has a vested interest in, the Republic of Georgia," a fact whose relevance increases if US strategic interests don’t totally coincide with Georgia’s — e.g. should we be fighting the Russians? McCain’s campaign responded that Obama was "in synch with Moscow." Broder did not reflect on what this baseless, outrageous smear says about McCain’s ethics or "prescience."
But more to the point, neither man is President. George Bush is President, and while he’s watching the Olympics, Rice and Hadley are in charge (except for whatever mischief Cheney is up to), probably examining a memo that says, "Russia likely to invade Georgia as payback." We’re safe.



102 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
1
now to read the post
No one could have anticipated.
Well no one except the brilliant foreign policy expert John McCain, who when asked about the invasion this week responded
“You8′ll have to answer to the Coca Cola company for that.”
Not that it would be more than cosmetic for Bush to return to the U.S. but in all his foreign travel to date, I don’t recall him spending more than one day in a single location, unless he was disgracing himself at a conference. Anyway, whether he does nothing in China or does nothing here the result will be the same and besides, Cheney is the kind of stand up guy you can trust at the helm, right?
What about the US being aggressive and imperialist you hack?
Broder is a dishonest old man.
Well, the title made me laugh!
Bush doesn’t need to come back; he can reassure us that there are no problems in the US from China.
Is this the same Broder the same man who is the corrupt journalist who violated journalistic standards by not disclosing his many conflicts of interest?
I am serious, I am not sure, there are so many depraved and corrupt public scum to keep distinct these days in this country.
If so, then this corrupt crony is flacking for McCain, whose main foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, may also have very serious, indeed bloody and astonishingly corrupt, conflicts of interest in advising McCain on virtually any international hotspot, including Georgia and Russia.
What a small world. If I remember my corrupt cronies correctly.
You would need a scorecard to keep up with the corrupt cronies in this regime. I just hope that we can find them all after January.
Regardless of wehther Broder is the corrupt columnist who was taking money for speech gigs and not reporting them to anyone, including his bosses, Broder is a bad, or a dishonest journalist.
McCain’s position on Russia is completely incohereht, as I mentioned in a previous post today. If it is something scary, like nuclear nonproliferation where we need Russian cooperation, then McCain says he will cooperate closely.
If McCain needs to pander to the black helicopter anti-UN wingnuts, then he is for kicking Russia out of the G8 and abandoning the UN the next day.
McCain makes no sense at all on Russia, even on a basic schoolchild level, and Broder is acting as a dishonest partisan flack here, not as a journalist.
WAPO serves up the very serious people tonight:
Black Sea Watershed
By Ronald D. Asmus and Richard Holbrooke
snip
snip
Either we are going to resort to arms to beat back this horrible Russian invasion of the soverign nation of Georgia, or we are not. All who favor going to war, raise your hand. You, Mr. McCain? You, Mr. Obama? You, Mr. Will? You Mr. Broder? I thought not. Next topic.
When informed that Russia had attacked Georgia, President Bush replied, “I’m on vacation, let Jimmy Carter handle it.”
The vile conflicts of interest in McCain’s foreign policy team are becoming public, and being mentioned in the blogs and more competent and honest print press. So now McCain is smearing Obama and saying that Obama is taking the Kremlin line on Russia/Georgia war.
Even though Obama is taking virtually the same line as McCain on the Russia-Georgian war. I do not mind their lines so much, because in such a mess, there is not much to say, really.
And truth be told, some Obama advisors may have the same conflcts of interest re Russia and Georgia as McCain’s do, and that would lead them to be dishonestly interested in the same direction.
I will go back and get links, I have some at least on McCain’s corrupt and stupid goon, Randy Scheunemann. On Obamas, that old warhorse Zbignew (sp?) I am not sure I have the documentation.
I think blogs need to make a big stink about both campaigns very slimey problems with conflict of interest with regard to some of their bigshot “national security advisors”.
I think if the truth comes out about these depraved people, the profession of “national security advisor” will be down there with international arms merchant and drug lord, and for some of these people that is where it belongs. It might still rank above child molester, which is probably fair.
Too bad for the honest among the profession. They will have to prove they are clean. But sometimes life is unfair. Maybe is should be for depraved rich old white men whose words can kill thousands.
Agreed, everything I read just screams, “take a look in the mirror, stupid” to me.
I hope people go read the comments and links in the earlier post today by JoFish.
and not get challenged on that statement.
The press corps is made up of cretins.
The Republican candidate always has a slight tactical advantage since their narratives don’t require any resemblance to reality.
Russia didn’t just move all this equipment and personnel overnight. Did our illustrious CIA or the myriad private intelligence firms the Pentagon is so fond of have any foreknowledge of troop movements? If not, why not. Did the Pentagon’s satellites decide to have a snooze via “software problems?”
It strikes me that prescient might have been leveraging the prevention of NATO taking Georgia in (which wasn’t going to happen anyway) along with G-8 status into some type of non-aggression agreement and plan for peaceful co-existence between Russia and Georgia and the enclaves. McCain’s blather did nothing but piss off Russia and make it appear they were getting nothing but belligerent disrespect anyway, so why not be aggressive. Prescient my ass Dean
ButtheadBroderWhen asked by Chinese schoolchildren what direction he would travel to return to the United States, President Bush scratched his head for a moment, then pointed at the ground.
Apparently both U.S. and Russia felt much more comfortable with the Cold War than with the post Cold War and are eager to resume former. Let the games begin.
Georgia retreats, pleads for truce.
Hi from Panama!
Well, Bob Costas is a sports announcer.
Wassup in Panama?
Tell everybody in Panama I said, “Hi.”
bidness. Bought a condo 3 years ago, and it’s done built!
Hi
How’s the vacation so far?
Georgia’s president election platform included a pledge to recover complete control over the self-declared autonomous regions. So, I think the Russians took it seriously and have been preparing for this scenario for awhile.
bmaz, great article and comments today.
No subprime lending problems in Panama?
From Monday’s WaPo.
One of the reasons this situation is so dicey is that Georgia is part of our coalition of the willing. Both Obama and McCain supported (and I think both still do support, though I am not sure about Obama) Georgia coming into NATO.
One now sees the obvious problems of having a country like Georgia in NATO. And one also sees the problems of ad hoc and informal “coalitions of the willing” or “league of democracies” or countries (aka flunkies and bribe-ees) we deem spotless democracies. We will be drawn into confused messes like this.
Below is George Kennan’s warning about direction of US foreign policy in 1998:
‘I think it is the beginning of a new cold war ….. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. there was no reason for this whatsoever. no one was threatening anybody else. this [NATO] expansion would make the founding fathers of this country turn over in their graves [an idiom for: “being profoundly upset” with something.] we have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [nato expansion] was simply a light-hearted action by a senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs.’ ….. as he said goodbye to me on the phone, Mr. Kennan added just one more thing: ‘this has been my life, and it pains me to see it so screwed up [mishandled] in the end.’
++
The link to this is in my last comment on JoFish thread on Russia-Georgia conflict earlier today. This is a transcript of a VOA broadcast, which is why there are explanations of English idioms in the quote.
A commenter above is correct that Georgia in NATO probably wasn’t really gong to happen. But that is our announced intention, along with several other countries who have no business being in a military alliance with us. Such a posture sets a certain “tone” to international proceedings.
Just got here this morning after 12 hours in the Mexico City airport…raining like crazy.
Maybe Shrub will send Henry to talk to his buddy Putin. Oh, wait, Putin might have Henry arrested and shipped off to The Hague.
I’m talking about hard intelligence about troop movements in the last two weeks, not foreign policy.
Wonder if Broder would recognized George Kennan as “prescient.”
Just swell. W has screwed up the whole world and we won’t help anyone. This situation is very dangerous-especially right now. Can we have January now?
For someone who is entirely uninformed (& thanks for helping cure that on an earlier thread), my 22 seems prescient.
I suspect those statements are aimed at their own people. I don’t think Georgian officials are so isolated or naive that they honestly believe Western nations are prepared to wade into this. They are simply shifting the blame.
Some links for Scheunemann, a chronicle of his ethics and wisdom.
I don’t have any for Zbigniew Brzezinski, but he has done consulting on energy projects in the region. Has either spilled their present and past connections, their conflicts of interest?
If not, why are such unethical and corrupt individuals in advising US presidential candidates?
(OK, don’t answer that.)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Scheunemann
talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/207665.php
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/randy-scheunemann.php
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_advisors_horrifying_ira.php
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/sheunemann_helped_pakistan_get.php
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/advisor_lobbied_mccain_on_latv.php
thinkprogress.org/2008/08/08/scheunemann-mccain-georgia
Would this be the same David Gregory whose wife told him he was rude to ask real questions at the White House press briefing?
Oh and a bit of a typo here: “now form it’s [?] excuse for invading”
They keep about 100K troops there normally from what I understand. It’s a flash point and they’ve been waiting for years for an opportunity to intervene. Also it started heating up months ago, so they had operational plans ready to go, I’m sure. There’s a pass and mountains, and Russia had to act fast or Georgia could seize those and it’d be hell to dislodge them. So once Georgia attacked, Russia had to decide to pull the trigger, fast, for military reasons. Do it or don’t. Of course, they did it.
I don’t think so, except that Panama is on the American dollar. I can’t believe how much it’s grown since I was here three years ago. Doubling the width and depth of the canal has been a boon. Soon the giant cruise ships will be able to come through and bring lots of touristas con dinero. (Also the fees the Chinese ships will bring here to feed Central America, Mexico and the Pacific US will be great for Panama’s economy.)
That, I don’t know. I don’t know much about purely military topics. I did read in a military blog earlier today that there is enough pro-Russian sentiment in Georgia among dissident groups and individuals (some high ranking) that Russia basically has the whole country wired like Christmas tree. But I don’t know whether that is true.
Thanks. I fixed it.
Hey SC.
Looks like Sakashvili is learning that being a member of the coalition of the willing has rewards.
He didn’t think the US would mix it up with a nation that has more than 25 million people in it, did he?
Another clown snookered by the neo-con artists.
-G
And W has screwed things up so badly, there’s nothing we can do to help at this point.
I think you are right. We cannot do anything about that demented sentiment in Russia. But we can do something about it in the US. And though Putin is a pretty ruthless guy, he is more rational and smarter than our wingnuts and neocons. So if we stamped out the vicious goofballs in US politics, it would nudge things in the right direction elsewhere.
They were fools to think the West could stop it. But to be fair Georgia had every reason to think it deserved help. They are, after all, one of the few nations that still had troops in Iraq helping the US. The Rose revolution was bought with Western money. the US has a base protecting the pipelines. Georgia has done everything it could to get Western protection. And the West led Georgia on. I’d feel betrayed if I were them too, but at the same time, they were also fools.
I meant “limited rewards”.
Very limited, help us, we’ll ignore you. Got it?
-G
Teddy is upstairs!
Will Cindy McCain’s White House Be the Bierhaus?
Henry?
ChickenHawks! All of ‘em.
That would call for an almost complete pre-positioned force just within Russia’s border. If the Russians have been poised to intervene on a moment’s notice the Georgian’s were fools to act.
Putin’s a Russian nationalist who feels that Russia is a great power and should be treated as one. Not doing so costs. He wants to be treated with respect. If McCain gets in Russia is going to be a nightmare for the US as a result, they will not take his disrespect sitting down.
Ian, you are so damn right. And someone has to lay that BS onto the neocons.
The statements from Georgian officials about the credibility of the West are exactly what the right in this country remember — forever — somehow, it will become the Dem’s fault for “losing Georgia.”
Kissinger.
They certainly acted fast. They do know what the flash points are. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did have it there. The Georgians, I think, were fools in this. I’d love to know what they were thinking.
Booman has an interesting take on it all. As always with this administration, energy is involved.
Has Presnit Bush been keeping Zell Miller posted on developments in Georgia?
-G
Don’t know anything about Russia, but doubt that we can do anything about neocons in US. Read They Knew They Were Right to find out how structurally embedded they are. Not going away anytime soon, esp with moron Ds.
Hey! It comes down to this: Those who want to go to war with Russia over Russia’s invasion of Georgia vote for McCain. Those who’d prefer diplomacy to a nuclear exchange vote for Obama.
The choice is clear. The choice is yours.
Andrew Sullivan already hashighlighted some NRO stool-slinger who’s saying that this is Carter effect in action….Because, you know President Obama is doing nothing to keep Russia in check…..
Apparently they forgot Bush was President and was chatting it up while gazing into Pooties’ eyes just two days ago.
-G
The Georgians didn’t happen to hire Don Rumsfeld, did they? Or maybe they got him in trade for their participation in the coalition of the willing.
I hope FDL has the connections to expertise needed to do some posts on the conflics of interest among the slimey and depraved and corrupt element in our “national security advisor” industry.
I think it is a goldmine. Some bloggin’ Gold there, IMHO.
And McCain is about to scram COMMIE SYMP COWARD GIRLIYBOY at Obama for the next few weeks. So a very loud, timely, public and objective evaluation of the scum who are bigshots in this doubtful field of expertise is very important.
Obama is not clean on this, by the way. But his camp is less likely to do something really stupid. McCain… well… who knows what goes on in McCain’s head anymore? Anyway, McCain’s crew is a gold mine of filth and foolishness and I think a bloggers gold mine.
I think important to loudly and objectively examine the issue of skanks, whores, operators, sharks, and corrupt conies, damned fools and dumbasses in the very dubious racket of high “national security advisor”
And McCain’s crew has several combo packages of the above.
Yep! It’s obvious now that Brioder and Will explain it to me! McBush III was so “prescient” that he was telling McBush II not to attend the Olympics because of the looming conflict in Georgia. I remember the “Maverick” telling Bush not to go…I think it was in that Broder interview! NOT!
Meanwhile Bush goes to an official government sanctioned church in Beijing and paws the pastor like he took lessons from Michelle Bachman at the last Republican Convention. Apparently Bush wasn’t briefed on the proper “body etiquette” of China and the exasperated face of the pastor showed it. And Bush sounded so insincere in his talk about religion, it was clear that this was more for “home consumption”. In the latter half of the last century there was “Panda diplomacy”…apparently Bush thought it was “Pander-Diplomacy”.
You are so, so right!
Our first order of business is getting rid of Democratic neocons, and scaring the shit out of the rest.
Imagine the message it would send throughout the village if Cindy Sheehan’s candidacy derailed Pelosi. And Cindy doesn’t have to win. She only needs to siphon off sufficiently many liberal votes.
And all that circles right back to my question about intelligence. Those borders are as porous as a colander. For the Georgians, much less the US, to not know troops and materiel were being moved around is ludicrous. Gonna have to go through the reports and see what I can build. And here I was enjoying a re-read of Lawrence’s Seven Pillars.
who asked a real question to begin with. Not something the usual trad. media would do.
And if I recall correctly, KO was a sportscaster first.
a few of scheunemann’s companies.
http://www.themercurygroup.com…..;Itemid=27
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_754jc
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..cheunemann
http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html
this guy is a piece of work.
frank carlucci, a baltic group/association-can’t find the name of it, this was a red flag when i found it-can’t find the bookmarks for it, lots of stuff on this guy, all shady, etc…….
this is just one page of google for one company, so many pages for this guy, i gave up a month ago, started to think he was three people with all of the tracks he’s left and connections.
But really… after these eight years, the Gerogia top brass did not get a clue about Cheney/Bush? They thought this adminstration would return a favor!? Really!?
Also, consider this very murky situation. From what I read, I think there is good chance that Georgia did intentionally kill a lot of civilians to kick things off. Most of South Oessetia does not want to be in Georgia, and I think Gerogia wanted them to go away. As far as corruption, doubtful elections and force and fraud and SOP politicis, Georgia is not that different from Russia.
The real lesson here is that exactly this kind of no-win mess for the US is exactly what the neocon PNAC Cheney/Bush/McCain/Scheunemann vision of the future holds for us. FOR FREAKING EVER! Over and over again.
This is the danger of this ‘coalition of the willing’ and ad hoc ‘league of flunkies’ er ‘democracies’ nonsense.
This is the danger of wanting to subsitute unilateral US violence for international law, which is what people like McCain’s top national security advisor, Scheunemann, want.
For me, those are the real lessons for the US in this.
What scares me is that in the current depraved and demented state of US politics, this direction has become mainstreamed and bipartisan.
They hold 100K troops there normally. No great troop movements were necessary, they already had enough in place to stymie the original Georgian advance. I think the Georgians must have thought they would hesitate.
I agree.
It was very prescient of Cheney/Bush/McCain policy to put the US in a no-win situation.
Call it the ‘auto-self-punk’ school of US foreign policy.
But our political culture is so depraved, and the press so corrupt and ignorant, there is a danger that this can be spun as an issue of US ‘cred’, as if such a think still exists.
But some fantasies die hard. And some US voters projection of male insecurity and infantile fantasies and fears die hard.
If Russia is smart, it will wrap this up in a few days. Since most people probably have no idea where Georgia is on a map, and think the coalition of the willing is a sad joke, it might be forgotten before the Olympics are over.
We have to hope that Russia is smarter and cannier than the US leadership. That is a horrible thing to say and makes me want to vomit. But look at the last eight years! Look at the tendentious and dishonest prattle this pompus crud, Broder barfed out today.
Well at least Cheney’s on top of things while Dubya is cheerleading the athletes in Beijing (the only job he actually he ever had to qualify for was Yale cheerleader).
Dedaeye has called Shaashkivili of Georgia and told him that “the Russian aggression will not go unanswered. Seems he’s either still suckering the Georgians, or that he’s pushing Bush for some unilateral military support of the Georgians.
I am sure that Russia is being very brutal towards Georgia, and will do some of its own war crimes, and may go on to do its own dangerous, wicked and risky demonstration project. And Georgia is little.
but, I think that there is a good chance that Georgia leadership were fools and or knaves to some extent.
Won’t know for awhile, I guess.
http://64.233.167.104/custom?q…..#038;gl=us
this was an interesting list of people all gathered in one place.
banks, telcos, dignitaries. guess who was there? scheunemann.
still looking for the ‘baltic group/association’, can’t find it. oh well.
Suit up Dick, you can get off the bench after 60 years and show your stuff, you asshole.
-G
Notice the difference in reactions to this matter in Georgia and the reaction to Israel’s fight with Hezbollah. I gather Russia is in the hurry up, beat the shit out of them as much as possible and bail out quick mode…We’ll see.
I’ve long appreciated that writing talent of sports reporters, and I’ve respected their grasp of the significance of facts and statistics. But, never before Olbermann have I appreciated their political astuteness. Perhaps he is truly exceptional.
you are a wizzard. I do not know enough these foul cesspools to put all the pieces together, but thanks for the links. I will surely look at them -not that I would understand the significance of much of it.
wow, this is translated from a guy from portugal…..talks about the riga meeting i posted at 78..was an important event, last nov/dec.
names all of the players in the pipeline game. brezhinski among them.
http://translate.google.com/tr…..26hs%3DFyi
I think the corporate media national affairs press would be greatly improved if they fired all the current flunkies and used the reporters on sports, travel, and gardening beats. Those reporters have to actually know facts, be able to reason things out, but two and two together. They have been held accountable for their work, therefore have some ethics and scruples, common sense, etc.
Slam dunk. I guarantee it.
Dooood!
pay dirt, found it.
in the riga list, the chairman was at the riga meeting.
randy scheunemann is on the board, that link i can’t find, but i remembered it, just couldn’t remember the name–it was so mundane.
somewhere i have a link.
the joint baltic american national committee, inc.
article on their site about meeting with mccain advisors, randy scheunemann takes a nice photo, he’s front and center in the photo.
large one.
with his baltic buddies.
nice article with it, too. oh my.
http://www.jbanc.org/ceec2008.html
was so busy digging, i didn’t realize i was epu’d oh well, scarecrow, i hope you see that last one, and the riga meeting stuff.
thanks, was looking into him a while back…guy gave me the creeps more than anyone i’ve ever looked into, seriously. creepy guy. had to back off a little.
my bookmarks need organized, but have been into other things…..guess he might warrant taking a little time to organize them, now that his fingers are in another war…..yep. they are. he’s connected to so many slimeballs/criminals it makes me wonder who the slimeball really is…..like i said, way scary guy.
Not sure what this all means. I hope you or some one can work this info into a good post with some tight facts and good arguments.
Yeah, sure, some of Obama’s people will get tagged. But some of McCain’s advisors are downright scary because of they are borderline psychopaths, and have a track record of mindboggling gullibility and incompetence.
Need to spotlight these vermine, no matter who they are corrupting, and let the chips fall where they may.
The conflicts of interest in the high pooh-bah scum need to be exposed, and in a way that the corporate press (or at least the print press which retains some competence and shame) cannot ignore.
BTW: I hope Cheney/Bush doesn’t not have plans for the Baltics -they are wonderful countries with very nice people and wonderful vacation spots. But, no oil there… so I guess they won’t get sucked in. Estonians and Lithuanians are quite shrewd… Latvians have some attitude problems towards Russia, though. But wno knows, looks like Cheney is kicking into some kind of deranged tin-pot butt-stupid Napalean mode. He looking for place to arrange some pay-back, so the US can shoot itself in the face again.
Um…yeah and since we invaded a country that didn’t attack us we can say nothing. As I said at the time, dangerous precedent.
Damn Bushholes.
That should read Black Sea region.
Both belong under the bus.
don’t know if some one posted this link, but a thorough commentary by some one with *some* familiarity with the area.
http://www.belgraviadispatch.c….._mind.html
A comment to the post in the link above says that UK Telegraph reports that Cheney/bush DID give an explicity green light to the Georgian action that brought on the crisis. What a mess. If certain maniacs have their way, we will be in a new cold war.
But a point needs to be made over and over: This is what the neocons want. If McCain, the Cheney/bush necon fruitcakes, the depraved and deluded bellicose wing of the Democrat mainstream (who are expert election losers, and just plain losers, BTW) get their way this is our future until the world burns up (one way or another). They want this future. They think it is a good future. They think this is the way the world should work, all the time, everywhere, over and over.
There needs to be a big stink if the Telegraph report is true.
Crooks and con-men disquised as “national security experts” need to be exposed and banished from the public sphere, no matter who they are advising.
McCain’s foreign policy advisors’ history of immense stupidity and incompetence needs to be exposed.
Interesting link from the link from the link above.
Some one named Daniel Laurison at The American Conservative, giving some background on why Saakashvili may have really thought the US would intervene in time to keep his country from getting blown up.
http://www.amconmag.com/lariso…..ectations/
Did the US give false promises, along with the arm twisting for potential NATO members in drumming up the coalition of the willing, or not so willing but bullied and threatened?
I can find nothing in the Telegraph that says the US explicitly gave a green light. That is a relief. That would be a realy sorry and frightening situation.
Link to story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..reets.html
Two interesting bits:
” It was suggested that Russia was fed up with the tiny state [South Ossetia], … that has largely sustained itself on smuggling, the counterfeiting of money and alleged pension fraud against the Russian authorities. US diplomats say that half the fake dollar bills on the American east coast are manufactured in South Ossetia. “
So, Ossetia has been a naughty pro-Russian enclave?
also:
Russia my be more interested in securing its enclave in Abkhazia.
Link to story on pipeline and energy bidness:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..-risk.html
I think we should stop telling other countries what to do. At least until (if it ever happens) we get our own problems sorted out. Our foreign policy towards Russia is idiotic. Trying to get the countries bordering Russia to be our allies is just sticking sharp sticks in the bear’s eyes. Remember our reaction when the USSR moved missiles into Cuba? How do you think the Russians feel when we are arming countries on their borders?
We are a stupid country to try and impose our will around the world.
Thanks scarecrow.
thanks for the extra links…
bush didn’t have to give a green light, scheunemann already did i bet last year at riga.
Scarecrow:
Not “Baltic”, “Black”.
This is the fact that leaps out: 2,000 Georgian troops in Iraq. Regardless of how much sympathy I have for the Georgians here, and how much condemnation the Russians deserve, the Shaakashvili government are bought and paid for CIA stooges, and traitors to their people for sending their army to Mespotamia when it has an immediately threatening neighbor.
I say this as someone with very strong ties to Poland, which is in an analagous situation with Poland, though Poland thankfully has the protection of NATO. At this point an alliance of virtually any country with the U.S., whether it amounts to sending mercenaries, buying military hardware, or basing missile boondoggles, is toxic and self-destructive.
meant “analagous situation with Russia”.
my apologies, i mixed up two slimeballs. each has a role in this. and what is being said on tv and radio right now.
stephen payne, not scheunemann, was on the jbanc board. not anymore, but i bet he’s still around. the bribery bush library fundraiser.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q…..#038;gl=us
more articles, neoconland.
stephen payne–honorary consul for latvia in texas-huh?
http://209.85.165.104/search?q…..#038;gl=us
until these guys are exposed, and the meetings that were held, the whole story won’t be out.
again, sorry about the mixup about the board.