These small places had better stop listening to the goadings of neo-con shitheads in the US…..They have a terrible record of saying cake-walk and creating quagmire. Ask the Israelis and the Lebanese.

-G

No, the Georgians drew Beloved Glorious Leader, the Jar-Jar Binks of American Presidents instead, during their struggle with the Land of Pootie.

This would be hysterical if it wasn’t completely true, and with such devastating consequences.

Great “legacy”, Georgie! Jar Jar Binks indeed.

Oh Jo: To God’s ears. I almost gagged watching our Pres. Cheerleader give a lecture on not invading another sovereign country or its territorial integrity. Saying all of that without a wink or Laura whispering in his ear. Too dumb to perceive the lie or irony or haughty b.s. Who shall we send? Sorry, wrong number.
Big W is off to see the games, and the troops are very busy.

Ah’d help that Shakish-veely feller but ah got some tight volley-ball players bums to leer at.

Sorry Mikhail.

-The Decider

Our State Department under the current incompetent administration: not so bad at making excuses, not so great at making with the diplomacy.

Russia wants to trade Georgia for Iran its obvious if we don’t go along with it the Ukraine or Poland is next or maybe Russia will just shut off the oil and Natural gas for Europe for Winter.
Condi is suppose to be an expert on the evil old USSR she should know this stuff?

see watertiger for the photographs

You should not poke large bears with a stick. They tend to get very, very testy.

It’s a good thing for Georgia we are tied up.. Asking for George Bush’s help is like asking Barney Fife to not shoot you in the foot.

Or Cheney to hit the quail…

Georgia sent troops to help us in Iraq now they need help but we are trapped in a quagmire ourselves and can’t help.
If you think we have no Clout now because Bush pissed away all our Moral Diplomatic Currency built up over the years.
Well what happens to our Real Diplomatic Currency if we can’t help out Georgia? If we can’t help our friends or punish our enemies of what value as friends are we?

Thanks for the great post, Jo Fish.

I had a brother-in law who use to refer to any exercise in futility as “pissing up a rope.” Never understood what he meant exactly but I fear that is what Mikhail is doing. In the past, the U.S. might have convened a meeting of like-minded nations to come up with a strategy but Bush made it clear early on he likes to fly solo and since he had his nose pointed straight down, the rest of the world was willing to let him do it.

Which makes me think, one of the roles a presidential administration traditionally plays is providing experience for the diplomats who will assist future presidents. Not this administration, cronyism has been the operative word from day one. Loyalty, not competence would get you in good with the boss. Experienced hands left the State Department in droves. Anybody who stuck around probably isn’t a lot smarter now than they were eight years ago.

I’m certain there are still a lot of capable people who can be called back into service but there may be some necessary down time before the State Department gets back up to speed.

Condi sez she can’t send an envoy because the Georgia desk is not so deep. Apparently, she can’t spare the one guy left at State who knows anything who will talk to her.

These people are insane. I hope we get through the next six months without the planet exploding.

Thanks, Jo, excellent post.

Condi sez she can’t send an envoy because the Georgia desk is not so deep. Apparently, she can’t spare the one guy left at State who knows anything who will talk to her.

Are you serious? That isn’t Snark?

And I keep telling these m’fers who look to start conflicts just so Amurrca can come be their ally , IF YOU CAN”T STAND THE HEAT, DON”T START THE FIRE …

I feel saddened for the innocent ones but …..

Hmmm Russia starts to reconquer its old empire while Bush was stuck in an Iraqi quagmire of his own making. There goes the legacy History Books are not going to treat this well.

On the other hand suppose Bush does help WW 3 won’t look good in the history books assuming that we still have a history and are not history ourselves.

Well, I do bet there are some old timers like Jim Baker or Ms Albright who would be glad to offer a hand…or Pres. Carter. There are a few people with sense and skills. I know, not among her group.

Yup: you are on the money on that comment. We can’t help our friends and we can’t punish our (or their) enemies. Thatnks to george and his war, we’re a paper tiger.

Shit, the Georgians got all that support from us because they agreed to help out in Iraq. they were a member of “the coalition of the willing”, right? “Don’t forget Poland” an dall that.

Jerome a Paris at Daily Kos has an excellent rundown of what’s goin gon:

Neocons are people that see danger everywhere and seem to crave military solutions in all cases. They endlessly blather about how we need to stand firm against bullies or other threats (Russia being near the top of the list), and protect our brave allies on the front lines, and along with them, democracy, freedom and our honor. They mock cowardly European who think appeasement (read – any diplomacy) might have a chance. They fuel conflicts and perpetually tout military options.

And yet, whenever given the opportunity to stand up to their words (and sent other people to fight, of course, they don’t do that themselves), the results are surprisingly poor.

After the catastrophic invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, the neocons have just lost a third war, in Georgia.

[snip]
Even granting that Russia has conducted an aggessive, outward bound foreign policy (as opposed to the kinder version that says they are simply reacting to Western provocations) towards the former Soviet Republics and beyond, this whole episode should disqualify the neocons from ever speaking about foreign policy again – they claimed the need for strength, the need to call Russia on its imperialism, the need to beef up the military of the threatened countries and to support them with the full force of the alliance of democracies – and they dumped Georgia at the first opportunity, after Russia showed it was actually serious about fighting when it got under way?

We get the worst of both worlds: military build up, diplomatic tensions and deep mistrust within (former?) allies in the West, and defeat when the inevitable confrontation happens.

Either Russia is a real danger, and we need consistent policies to address that (including, I might add, serious policies to reduce our energy use, given that Russia is the largest energy exporter and can, supposedly, cripple us with the “energy weapon” beyond the traditional military invasions and irredentism) or it is not, and we need to start talking with them and listening to them – and maybe avoid things like bringing our soldiers to their borders, cancelling unilaterally treaties signed with them, and endlessly calling them an enemy.

Either we actually do realpolitik, or we don’t. Realpolitik is meant to be distateful, but effective. What we have now is certainly distateful, but effective is the last word that can be used to describe it. Beyond the loss of credibility I discussed yesterday, losing wars and having cities in allied countries flattened out can hardly be considered great successes.

Follow the Caspian Sea pipeline money.

MIlitary action to remove regimes is not done…. in Europe.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in a telephone conversation today that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili “must go,” meaning he should be ousted from office, Khalilzad said.

“This is completely unacceptable and crosses a line,” the U.S. envoy said.“The days of overthrowing leaders by military means in Europe are gone.”

Regime Change

Khalilzad then asked Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin whether his government’s policy was “regime change” in Georgia. Churkin responded by saying that regime change was an American, not a Russian, expression.

lolz

Put it that way and it appears that the Russians successfully played the realpolitik card.

PERFECT!
Perfect pics to go with a PERFECT take on the Georgia cry for help thingy, JO FISH! GO!
wow
This must be sent around to everyone I know, and some I don’t.
and
Dugg!
toooo hysterical for words.
Great job, Elliot, pointing to the pics. Great job with the keypad, Jo!
As Cimpleton puts it in his “rough Spanishness”….
Much Gras!
s

Neocons are people that see danger everywhere and seem to crave military solutions in all cases. They endlessly blather about how we need to stand firm against bullies or other threats (Russia being near the top of the list), and protect our brave allies on the front lines, and along with them, democracy, freedom and our honor. They mock cowardly European who think appeasement (read – any diplomacy) might have a chance. They fuel conflicts and perpetually tout military options.

And yet, whenever given the opportunity to stand up to their words (and sent other people to fight, of course, they don’t do that themselves), the results are surprisingly poor.

I wonder how the Neocons will spin that abandoning Georgia will help Israel everything Bush does helps Israel even when we are losing.
Back in the real world outside the Neocon MSM bubble if we lose our Clout by not rewarding our friends and punishing our enemies then Israel had better compromise quick on Palestine because we were their only friend.
There is no other country that will be hurt more than Israel if Georgia falls. Besides us that is.

And you know, I’d agree with the good man if it were any other administration but this one… even St Ronnie of Dementia might have had competent diplomats to dispatch with an equal number of CIA operatives to at least provide the appearance of giving a shit while setting up complex espionage operations; Bush 1 would have dragged out the rolodex and made some calls to see if there were something to be done that was a win-win for us, and at least given it the old Yale try while really doing nothing at all. The Big Dog, well, he’d a gone over and had a giant kuumbaya session, felt everyone’s pain and left Madelaine Albright to hold a second and third level yakfest while being disparaged by Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Chris Matthews and the Heritage Foundation for not invading (or invading) someplace on general principle… complete with non-binding resolutions and speeches, speeches speeches.

That has to be the funniest paragraph i’ve read all week.

Reward your friends punish your enemies is there anything else to diplomacy? Oh wait picking your friends in the first place never mind WW 3 are Americans willing to die for Georgia after the lies told about Iraq.
The American governments Cred with the people and its Clout with foreign governments are at about the same levels as McCain’s chances to win fairly in November.

“The days of overthrowing leaders by military means in Europe are gone.”

So “shock and awe” is just fine anywhere but Europe. Condi’s is a deft hand, for sure. Just think where we’d be if Bush had given the job to a crony.

ok this is good too, lol!

Yo, Mikhail it’s a really, really bad time to bring up the whole “sovereign country” thing. Right now our beloved Codpiece Commandante is hanging out with other first-second-and-third-world totalitarian leaders acting like a bored ten-year old at a Stephen Hawking lecture. On top of that, we have the whole “well, we invaded a sovereign country too” thing and so the moral high ground that that fool has to stand on there is actually a fire-ant mound in flood waters and the really pissed-off warrior ants are starting to climb up his leg, he’s just too stupid to notice.

I have always also found it amazing that W has a Croney. He certainly does not play well with others; calls them cruel pet names…I guess it is all S & M just as with Rove. No wonder we are in such deep trouble.

Has Condi ever had a Diplomatic Success ever even a small one? Can she beat Henry Kissinger as worse Secretary of State ever?

the notion of the Bush administration ever having any “moral high ground” to stand on would be laughable if it weren’t so sad.

The writer of your paragraph quoted at 28 described the situation well.

Aloha, Jo Fish! Excellent post!

Smirkmeister doesn’t and never did get it that the word “history”, is NOT “His story”,
so he’s stickin’ with it.
I have never been so embarrassed by anything from this misAdministration as I am and remain, MORTIFIED, by pictures of incurious george at the 08 Olympics. It’s just unbelievably shameful and disgusting and what a supreme idiot in front of the cameras/eyes of the world.
OMG.
We owe everyone SO BIG for this blunder in chief, it’s just beyond concept!

You already saw this right?
Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

Digg people has the Lake ever got 40 Diggs on a post? Shouldn’t we try sometime?

It’s the kiss up, kick down philosophy. Bush is allowed to treat people like crap because he’s head honcho, top dog, big cheese. Plus, the people he considers subordinates are a larger group than you might imagine, Angela Merkel, for instance.

This is a tragic war and I hope it ends soon. I think Russia wants this to be an example for other little neighbors who might think that joining a bloated meaningless NATO alliance might actually mean something.

The fact that Ossetia really is a distinct ethnic group, and very split between Georgia and Russia also is a difficult problem that cannot be solved cleanly or quickly. Right now the group is friendly towards Russia, because Russia has reason to be nice to them and protect them.

If I were an Ossetian, I would think that the situation before the war is probably just the perfect situation, since a neighboring bigshot had an incentive to cator to my group’s interests.

I hope that no incompetent and mindless US necon diplomacy led the Georgian president to think that the US might actually do something before his country was bombed to shreds. Or maybe the poor man thinks that Cheney/bush stupidity is a model to emulate.

I think there is a larger issue here, and that is the mindless militarization of nearly all aspects of US foreign policy. The idea of Georgia joining NATO is ridiculous. If it were a member now, would we go to war with Russia? Or intervene in any meaningful way in order to resolve a difficult problem involing a pplit ethnic enclave? If the US tried to take NATO to war over this, it would simply tear NATO apart and destroy its credibility.

Yet, I understand that both Obama and McCain have advocated Georgia join NATO, and had widespread support among the Senate Democrats.

The immoral and stupid militarization of US diploamcy needs to be addressed.

We used to have people like Marshall, Truman, Eisenhower, Kenan, Vandenburg, etc. who had some knowledge, common sense and at least a shred of decency and morality in them. Now we have vile operators like Randy Scheunemann (McCain) and Brzezinski (Obama), who lobby and consult on the side for the parties involved in these disputes and then run around making high policy without disclosing their conflicts of interest. These slime are the wise men in charge of our foreign policy. Whatever the faults of the Marshalls, etc, (and they had some great faults), at least they had competence and at least a shred of decency and decorum. The current crop of Mayberry Machiavellis do not.

Do a search on Scheunemann on TPM and Thinkprogress blogs and read this fool’s history. He was involved in advocating and arranging nearly every blunder of Cheney/Bush: Iraq invasion, Chalabi strongman policy, dumping money on military and Pakistan as a wise policy. I think he has a very serious conflict of interest on Georgia, as I think he still has ties to the lobbying firm that reps Georgia to the US govt.

If you make a list of McCain’s positions on Russia, they make no sense on any level. He proposes policies that require close cooperation with them and then next day proposes we kick them. I wonder if this is the result of trying to sound sane and also cater to an advisor who has a conflict of interest.

Looking at what tangled and obscure messes are not only possible, but likely, if NATO were to include Georgia, is it not alarming that both candidates advocate such an idiotic thing. And worse, with the Senate, including Democrats, advocate it as a general policy for a number of countries. This nonsense should alarm people.

George Kennan was very opposed to the idea of this kind of NATO expansion and said so before he died, or he wrote it. I will look for a reference.

The whole US attitude towards foreign policy is depraved, decadent and to add injury to insult, futile and self-defeating. It has the ultimate disadvantage in that it not work and damage our national interests. It is a kind of moral cowardice that lays off all tough decisions to the military. It will bankrupt us, will end up with many innocent civilians, and US military personnel getting killed.

I am not saying that the US caused this war. And I think after it is over we will see that war crimes were definitely commited by both sides. *cough* prediction: Georgia almost certainly started it as a quick grab that didn’t work and that involved some civilian bombing *cough*

But it brings up the issue of a dangerous, immoral and self-defeating nature of recent US foreign policy, which is supported by both parties.

Kennan was no softie, he knew what he was talking about, and was prescient about the dangers of the US’s present course.

I’m glad I gave up tv for the summer I’m sure plenty of Georgians are wondering why when Bush needed them Georgia was there with the troops.
But when Georgia needs Bush, Bush can’t be bothered to leave the Olympics even though he clearly seems bored.

I think I have seen FDL articles get 50 or more Diggs…

I agree we should try, and in fact some of us try nearly every night (are you out there, nahant?)

Digg this here!

I don’t agree with your last sentence. Neither Russia nor Georgia are innocents in this matter, and I predict that Georgia’s actions that initiated this war will ultimately be recognized to NOT put it in the class of innocent friends who needed our help, unconditionally. At least in terms of fighting Russian troops.

One could argue that the progress in talks with North Korea is a success, although like most diplomatic endeavors, only time will tell. Did the breakthrough with Libya occur on her watch? At any rate, I suspect any success has been inadvertent. Not entirely her fault, since the Bush junta had already alienated the rest of the world while she was screwing up as NSA.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

Good catch so its another war for oil great Bush I’m sure will try and find a backbone even if it means WW 3.

thanks for that link from Jerome a Paris

It looks like the FDL Digg record is 4166

I’ve been spending most of my time outdoors in recent months and following the news relatively little, so I missed the reason for the invasion. Would you mind explaining it to me?

I wonder how this fits with the previous Lakoff conversation. Maybe we are seeing the shift from this heavy handed “father” white male domination. In this adminstration there are no bounds to cruelty, contempt, arrogance, domination, and lies. In his world, and that of Cheney, everyone is subordinate and lesser. How scary can that be? And McC. in the pipeline. Is there a chance we will ever learn?

He’s the Alpha moron of an inbred ruling class and their MSM servitors. We tolerate them much like the British tolerate their inbred royal family as long as they provide entertainment its ok.
We can’t let the Bushies actually run the government anymore.

We should really do it with this one!
This will appeal huge to everyone in the leaning left area of Blogostopia, the humor, wit, outright brilliance and amazing “nail it to the situation”ness will totally pull in droves, I’d put money on it.
Please, all you pedigree’d blueblood topo the line’s pups,

DIGG THIS NOW!

though i find it hard to believe the Lake never got 40 diggs on anything before.
:)

He’s the Alpha moron of an inbred ruling class

Fuck! The coke just came out of my nose. Another keyboard ruined.

well said!

How did that happen I could have sworn we never got above 40 when I’m here? Is it Me? (sob)

Mission Accomplished:)

Does everyone digg after I leave? Or maybe I hang out to much at Late Late night and the early morning threads?

The Digg will often take off after the original post has rolled off FDL’s front page and will really rack up the Diiggs if it gets labeled as “Popular” and gets to the front page at Digg itself.

you don’t mean the kind of coke that has gone into the Alpha moron’s nose, do you?

And I think those energy and pipeline deals are the murky consulting and lobbying deals where such creatures as Scheunemann and Brzezinski earn their soiled money.

Scheunemann is especially bad. Name a international hotspot someplace in the world, and he or one of the firms he works with, or has worked with in the past, has some bucks on the line.

And this guy is McCain’s chief foreign policy advisor. Some of the nonsense McCain is spouting on G8, ‘league of democracies, Russia, and Chinal, seem almost lines from current or ex country clients, or business partners that Scheunemann is, or was, involved with.

I think all Obama and McCain foreign policy adivors need to come clean on their connections and interests. I will not take anything these, and this is my opinion: very disreputable operators, spout, until they come clean.

How many Diggs does it take to reach that threashold?

Is there a chance we will ever learn?

As much as we think it should, progress doesn’t occur in a linear fashion. Plus, there will never be a decisive victory over the forces of ignorance and intolerance. A lot of battles have to be waged anew by each generation.

Digg has some type of algorhythm that seems to include the number of Diggs. the topic, comments on the Digg etc so it varies. It also helps when the submitter is able to pull an interesting snippet of the post (or does an interesting precis) and a pertinent and catchy title helps as well.

Ok then what is it going to be WW 3?
Or will Bush just abandon Georgia even though they sent troops to help us in Iraq and they are part of an oil pipeline deal near and dear to our Dry Well Pumping Presidents heart?
Will we lose our Place and Prestige in World Affairs or will we just lose our lives in actual mushroom clouds ?

Talk about representing our country with dignity and honor, look (if you can stand it) at the picture I found of Commander Guy over at Digg…

http://www.wikiupload.com/images/olympics.php

NOTE: SPEW WARNING

He’s the Alpha moron of an inbred ruling class

Jo Fish is right. This one is a keeper.

I’ve always considered causing people to spew beverages from their nose one of the highest compliments.

Bush makes war crimes look easy.

I thought Jane’s post on the woman ranting as she was escorted out of the DNC’s Rules Committee scored more diggs than that… I know the Youtube went viral…! ;-)

I always hated the arrogance of US “kings” to play the “World’s Cop”. I surely never wanted to see the US have to turn over the badge and the gun in this manner, however.

This is collective egg on collective faces in many ways, then again, we’re butting OUT, where we belong, meaning “OUT!”

I do and will continue to pray for the innocent there, and for the damage to the planet those gigantomongous explosions are wreaking.

While boy george fiddles and plays up his frat experience.

And those pics of not jenna!!! OMG. She looks like a call girl on her way to her next $50 rendezvous, does she not!

Thank you. That is an interesting response. It seems that we have gone so far afield this time. OUr country had made such significant steps with the GI bill and the various civil/women’s right progress. Even after Watergate, there was the recognition that something had been righted. We have really lost our center this time; not just a Buffoon in Chief. He has had alot of help.

Scheunemann is especially bad. Name a international hotspot someplace in the world, and he or one of the firms he works with, or has worked with in the past, has some bucks on the line.

And this guy is McCain’s chief foreign policy advisor. Some of the nonsense McCain is spouting on G8, ‘league of democracies, Russia, and Chinal, seem almost lines from current or ex country clients, or business partners that Scheunemann is, or was, involved with.

Ok good to know McCain stands with the WW 3 option if we live we can nail him as a Corporate War Monkey…er Corporate War Monger…er whats the difference? Besides a Chimp?

Read the link to Jerome a Paris at Daily Kos that was linked to.

My theory: South Ossetia has beena self proclaimed autonomous region for past ten years or so. Georgia’s president promised to get it back under Georgian sovereignty. He may have thought being a US ally in Iraq would mean we would return the favor. (HAHAHA! Maybe he has been vacationing out in the country for last eight years and has not been paying attention to how Cheney/Bush operate).

Or maybe, being the kind of “friend” that attracts idiots like Cheney and Bush, he thought that US training personnel and mission their would force the US ton intervene somehow.

So, it looks like he thought he could make a quick military grab for South Ossetia. Looks the Russians were very very ready for such a grab, and Georgia kinda missed this little detail.

right now, from my reading on the internet, it looks like the sub-moronic and totally ignorant corporate press let him play innocent victom for last few days.

Georgia may have started the grab by firing on Russian “peace keepert” or guards, or whatever they are, who protect S. Ossetia. May have alos shelled civilians in S. Ossetian capital.

I predict neither side will look innocent at all when the dust settles.

THIS is the ONE: Bring him a drinky with an umbrella. That’s our Pres. Can you get impeached for leachery? Voyeurism? Please.

Peterr is upstairs.

I hope they reserve a special place for that pic at the Bush Libery.

Thank you very much. Will also read the link. But the problem with coming into the news cycle after the fact is that the MSM has picked a meme that determines all reportage, and that may or may not be so. I especially appreciate your color & suspicions.

Well, I got the number above by searching for all Digg submission with firedoglake in the URL and sorted from most down so if the Harriet Christian (I believe was her name) video got more, than Digg has a problem with their search tool.

I keep hoping SMU will renege on the plan to build where the high dollars bought ground. It is a beautiful campus…lovely buildings, grounds, etc. I’d like signs saying to keep him off…

I hope they reserve a special place for that pic at the Bush Libery.

I suspect they will have room to spare.

Peterr’s upstairs…

I bet against WWWIII, but if I am wrong, will spend last coupla days in ultra-party mode.

Cheney/bush are contemptable cowards and bullies. When have they ever stood strong, except against the weak? I don’t think they will do anything much. From what I have read and seen in clips of speeches, Georgia’s president looks like a rash and foolish man, so if he presumed a bit in thinking he was “in with” Cheney/bush, or thought he had manipulated US into having to do something, then Cheney/bush will even have a rational basis for not doing anything for them in this situation.

If Saakashvili thought he had the US “on the hook” with him because we have been training his troops and he sent troops to Iraq, then I hope WE ask the schook to step down, privately. No, I hope we TELL the Georgians he has to go.

I think Russia wants to solidify control of Ossetia and Abkhasia (sp?). And they have said their official demand is that Georgian president, Saakashvili, steps down. So we have to sweat a few days of Georgia begging to be let off the hook, and deciding whether to dump their pres. before this is over.

PS: Bush administration hypocracy in their statements is disgusting to me.

Thanks for finding this stuff out:)

I agree but this time there is oil involved OIL man you know what that does to Bush.

Just found this site with pics, maps, ethnic groups, history of violence, via comments at Pat Lang’s Sic Semper Tyrannis, for those interested:

http://www.colorado.edu/ibs/waroutcomes/

Transcirpt of George Kennan’s condemnation of eastward expansion of NATO

http://www.fas.org/man/nato/ne…..-nato2.htm

also via Sic Semper Tyrannis comment section of following post:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com…..ation.html

It’s about the oil. In this case the pipeline. Russia will take Georgia back so they can control central Asian oil.

Makes Cheney look like an unsuccessful piker.