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	<title>Comments on: Is &#8216;Anthrax Killer&#8217; Bruce Ivins Just The Latest Richard Jewell?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/</link>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570352</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570352</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And now another man is dead because of FBI incompetence. I can’t countenance that most of all.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now another man is dead because of FBI incompetence. I can’t countenance that most of all.</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570332</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kirk Murphy what do you make of this poor guy Ivins? (I am assuming he is innocent until proven guilt although after Hatfill, Padilla, et al . . . and with “case closed” and all . . .) Duley said Ivin’s doctor used the word “sociopath.” Somehow I doubt it. Anyway, shouldn’t she be using personality disorder terms instead, I mean, as a “professional.”?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It was around the time that FBI agents showed Ivins’s 24-year-old daughter pictures of the victims who had died in the 2001 anthrax attacks and told her, “Your father did this,” the scientist said. The agents also offered her twin brother the $2.5 million reward for solving the anthrax case — and the sports car of his choice&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That could make a “meek” man crash.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk Murphy what do you make of this poor guy Ivins? (I am assuming he is innocent until proven guilt although after Hatfill, Padilla, et al . . . and with “case closed” and all . . .) Duley said Ivin’s doctor used the word “sociopath.” Somehow I doubt it. Anyway, shouldn’t she be using personality disorder terms instead, I mean, as a “professional.”?</p>
<blockquote><p>It was around the time that FBI agents showed Ivins’s 24-year-old daughter pictures of the victims who had died in the 2001 anthrax attacks and told her, “Your father did this,” the scientist said. The agents also offered her twin brother the $2.5 million reward for solving the anthrax case — and the sports car of his choice</p>
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<p>That could make a “meek” man crash.</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570326</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570326</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey don’t make fun of the “expert witness.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey don’t make fun of the “expert witness.”</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570322</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570322</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Duley may be a “shining object,” but right now the media is citing her as the source of the most “damning evidence” that Ivins was capable of being the anthrax killer. In lieu of compelling linkage to the crime, we’ve got character assassination. It’s got holes and so does the rest.&lt;br /&gt;
The tiger, the elephant and the horned beast are the obvious. In other words, I disagree Duley is important.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duley may be a “shining object,” but right now the media is citing her as the source of the most “damning evidence” that Ivins was capable of being the anthrax killer. In lieu of compelling linkage to the crime, we’ve got character assassination. It’s got holes and so does the rest.<br />
The tiger, the elephant and the horned beast are the obvious. In other words, I disagree Duley is important.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570247</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1570247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’d be shocked, shocked &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080503747.html?hpid=topnews&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;if the WaPo buried&lt;/a&gt; this lede:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Shortly before she sought a “peace order” against Ivins, Duley had completed 90 days of home detention after a drunken-driving arrest in December, and she has acknowledged drug use in her past.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In a 1999 interview with The Washington Post, Duley described her background as a motorcycle gang member and a drug user. “Heroin. Cocaine. PCP,” said Duley, who then used the name Jean Wittman. “You name it, I did it.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gee.  Wonder if her buddies in the motorcycle gang just let Jean bogart her heroin stash, or if she ever shared a dose or two?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I wonder what the Federal statute of limitations is for distribution?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh well: I’m sure she was never around anyone who trafficked.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’d be shocked, shocked <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080503747.html?hpid=topnews" rel="nofollow">if the WaPo buried</a> this lede:</p>
<blockquote><p>Shortly before she sought a “peace order” against Ivins, Duley had completed 90 days of home detention after a drunken-driving arrest in December, and she has acknowledged drug use in her past.</p>
<p>In a 1999 interview with The Washington Post, Duley described her background as a motorcycle gang member and a drug user. “Heroin. Cocaine. PCP,” said Duley, who then used the name Jean Wittman. “You name it, I did it.” </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Gee.  Wonder if her buddies in the motorcycle gang just let Jean bogart her heroin stash, or if she ever shared a dose or two?</p>
<p>And I wonder what the Federal statute of limitations is for distribution?</p>
<p>Oh well: I’m sure she was never around anyone who trafficked.</p>
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		<title>By: cleanth</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569472</link>
		<dc:creator>cleanth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569472</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Primrose!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here is my chance to appreciate your lovely moniker.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’ve looked all over the net to try to discover just how much would be required to kill a man Ivins’ size. I do not know. Do you?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Toxic Doses (for Adults)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Acetaminophen: toxic dose 10 g&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Codeine: toxic dose 240 mg&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In adults, hepatic toxicity has rarely been reported with acute overdoses of less than 10 grams and fatalities with less than 15 grams.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Primrose!</p>
<p>Here is my chance to appreciate your lovely moniker.</p>
<blockquote><p>I’ve looked all over the net to try to discover just how much would be required to kill a man Ivins’ size. I do not know. Do you?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Toxic Doses (for Adults)</p>
<p>Acetaminophen: toxic dose 10 g</p>
<p>Codeine: toxic dose 240 mg</p>
<p>In adults, hepatic toxicity has rarely been reported with acute overdoses of less than 10 grams and fatalities with less than 15 grams.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569448</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569448</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Even when the FBI develops a strong, credible case against likely perpetrators of the anthrax attacks, what can the government look forward to at trial and on appeal?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will have to submit its evidence and witnesses to critical cross examination by the defense.  It will have to submit to searching questions about the existence, purposes and management of secret bio-weapons facilities which gave us both the weapons and the perpetrators who attacked us.  And failed management and security clearance procedures that allowed it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will have to submit to questions about alternative theories of who committed the crime, alternative possible suspects and why they were discounted.  And questions about the lengthy and inconclusive investigation to date.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The anthrax attacks case is the last one this administration or its FBI ever wants to see the inside of a court room.  Suicide and “case closed” accomplish that admirably.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let’s hope that Rep. Holt is serious about launching a special investigation into this case.  As with the torture, secret prisons, the Gimot trials and illegal domestic spying, it will be like looking into this administration’s eyes and seeing its soul.  If Dubya can do that with Putin, surely his public are allowed to do that with his administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even when the FBI develops a strong, credible case against likely perpetrators of the anthrax attacks, what can the government look forward to at trial and on appeal?</p>
<p>It will have to submit its evidence and witnesses to critical cross examination by the defense.  It will have to submit to searching questions about the existence, purposes and management of secret bio-weapons facilities which gave us both the weapons and the perpetrators who attacked us.  And failed management and security clearance procedures that allowed it.</p>
<p>It will have to submit to questions about alternative theories of who committed the crime, alternative possible suspects and why they were discounted.  And questions about the lengthy and inconclusive investigation to date.</p>
<p>The anthrax attacks case is the last one this administration or its FBI ever wants to see the inside of a court room.  Suicide and “case closed” accomplish that admirably.</p>
<p>Let’s hope that Rep. Holt is serious about launching a special investigation into this case.  As with the torture, secret prisons, the Gimot trials and illegal domestic spying, it will be like looking into this administration’s eyes and seeing its soul.  If Dubya can do that with Putin, surely his public are allowed to do that with his administration.</p>
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		<title>By: nextstopchicago</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569438</link>
		<dc:creator>nextstopchicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569438</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When you write that the evidence against him suggests he was involved, you cite the dryer.  But Greenwald notes that he needed the dryer for his normal work, so your best instance of evidence against him is no evidence at all.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thus far, there is no case whatsoever against Ivins.  The innuendo and hearsay isn’t even innuendo and hearsay about his being involved.  It’s just innuendo about his begin a little odd.  Frankly, they haven’t even done a good job of proving him odd, let alone guilty.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you write that the evidence against him suggests he was involved, you cite the dryer.  But Greenwald notes that he needed the dryer for his normal work, so your best instance of evidence against him is no evidence at all.</p>
<p>Thus far, there is no case whatsoever against Ivins.  The innuendo and hearsay isn’t even innuendo and hearsay about his being involved.  It’s just innuendo about his begin a little odd.  Frankly, they haven’t even done a good job of proving him odd, let alone guilty.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569437</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569437</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ms. Duley is the shining object.  She is not the focus of the investigation.  She should not be the focus of our comment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are searching for three beasts in this camera safari:  1) The tiger(s) involved in plotting and carrying out the anthrax attacks.  2) The elephants, the law enforcement and intelligence bureaux that have failed for seven years to build a credible case against the likely perpetrators.  3) The horned beast that is the government that negligently or recklessly operates bio-weapons research programs of questionable legality.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s that latter beast, we mutely learn, that attacked and killed our neighbors through its incompetence or reckless disregard for our safety.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We were not attacked by little brown foreign people “who hate our liberty”.  We were not attacked by rogue states.  We were attacked by rogue Americans with top science and security clearance backgrounds, working at secret government facilities.  We were attacked by a rogue system so assured of its own invulnerability, that it stopped watching the store and allowed our “secret weapons” to be used on us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Duley is the shining object.  She is not the focus of the investigation.  She should not be the focus of our comment.</p>
<p>We are searching for three beasts in this camera safari:  1) The tiger(s) involved in plotting and carrying out the anthrax attacks.  2) The elephants, the law enforcement and intelligence bureaux that have failed for seven years to build a credible case against the likely perpetrators.  3) The horned beast that is the government that negligently or recklessly operates bio-weapons research programs of questionable legality.  </p>
<p>It’s that latter beast, we mutely learn, that attacked and killed our neighbors through its incompetence or reckless disregard for our safety.  </p>
<p>We were not attacked by little brown foreign people “who hate our liberty”.  We were not attacked by rogue states.  We were attacked by rogue Americans with top science and security clearance backgrounds, working at secret government facilities.  We were attacked by a rogue system so assured of its own invulnerability, that it stopped watching the store and allowed our “secret weapons” to be used on us.</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569434</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/05/is-anthrax-killer-bruce-ivins-just-the-latest-richard-jewell/#comment-1569434</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good point. Ivins was released from Shepard Pratt, no longer “a danger to himself or others.” And then he commits suicide. Where’s that Doctor Irvin who supposedly told Duley that Ivins was a “sociopath,” which apparently is a diagnosis that has been discarded in favor of personality disorder terms? The only one yakking seems to be Duley.  I feel sorry for Ivins and his friends and family.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point. Ivins was released from Shepard Pratt, no longer “a danger to himself or others.” And then he commits suicide. Where’s that Doctor Irvin who supposedly told Duley that Ivins was a “sociopath,” which apparently is a diagnosis that has been discarded in favor of personality disorder terms? The only one yakking seems to be Duley.  I feel sorry for Ivins and his friends and family.</p>
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