New at this but I’ll play the Zed game!

The writers for Fox & Friends have to first concoct reasons to blame Obama for Joe’s interview location. They are working furiously on that, no doubt.

I’d swallow Bayh if that’s what it takes to win. That’s the only reason for picking him. Anyway, the office is honorific, despite the recent rise of the Fourth Branch. Be nice to get a nobody back in that office, which it deserves.

You win. What, I’m not quite sure.

As one of Bayh’s constituents I can tell you that he has been rather unresponsive to any attempts to persuade him to act/vote in any semblance of a progressive manner. From FISA to war funding he has taken the path of least resistance. I would be beyond disappointed if he received the VP nod.

I would need to see an argument that Bayh would help anyone win. So far, haven’t had any evidence.

I am of like mind. If Indiana wins it fine. Obama is going to do what it takes to win. All hail,veepee Bayh.

So, is this a trial balloon, or a done deal? And, if it’s a done deal, is there any conceivable political upside to Bayh on the ticket? Teddy’s previous post seems to indicate Bayh would put Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio in the “D” column.

Joe yammering on the shitter. That would certainly give the Fox & Friends crowd something to chat about, eh?

I don’t think so. It’s only a minor, but still theme-consistent, variation of the usual Joe-yammering.

I would need to see an argument that Bayh would help anyone win. So far, haven’t had any evidence.

Would love to help, being in Indiana and all, but - no can do.

sorry.

The CW on Bayh is “blah” and I must agree. But perhaps Obama is just looking for someone inconsequential & without controversy. Blah, indeed!

Jane, does Obama really believe that progressives are so devoted to him/terrified of McCain, that he can stab us in the back repeatedly and still get our vote? I don’t think that’s a safe bet. Maybe someone needs to remind him that his enormous popularity was built on a foundation of changing course. Obama’s recent sprint to the right, if capped off with a Bayh VP, will destroy that foundation and possibly his chances in November.

Joe yammering on the shitter

Oh, Jane you silver tongued devil you.

Good morning, Jane.

The increasingly astute ‘grasp’ of reality exhibited by Obama is nothing short of breath-taking.

Gasp … wheez …

Every week we get a new frontrunner. Are these trial balloons by the Obama campaign or just stuff for the bimbos to yap about on MSM?

All hail,veepee Bayh.

ok, that brought back a creepy memory. On May 6, I was at the Hillary “victory celebration” here in Indy. Hillary thanked Bayh, the crowd applauded, then a few started chanting - “Vee-Pee, Vee-Pee!!”

Bayh then makes this exaggerated finger-to-the lips “sssshhhhh” motion, with the world’s stupidest, not to mention least-earned, shit-eatin’ grin on his face.

The guy’s a jerk and none too bright.

Oh - Jane - here’s an argument in favor: Bayh’s wife is waaay smarter than he is, quite capable, funny, pragmatic, and a damned fine lawyer.

She’s a cinch to win the Vice-Presidential Wives’ Debate.

disclaimer - this is just a wild unsubstantiated guess:

i don’t believe it. it won’t be bayh - bayh is being played in order to make us ok with whoever the choice really is: “well, at least obama didn’t pick bayh”

As anyone ever talked to Bayh’s dad? Birch is way more progressive than his son. Anyone ever figure out why? Hell, Birch is way older than McSame yet shows a lot more fire and spark than either Evan or McSame.

I was just thinking. Who is floating the Bayh VP nonsense? Is it DLC’ers like Harold Ford? Is it the Hillary people? Both?

If Obama picks Bayh it would be just one step above Gore picking Liberman. After Obama’s cave on FISA a Bayh pick would signal the end of the Obama “movement” stunningly accompolished by Obama himself.

“well, at least obama didn’t pick bayh”

heh, picking *Birch* Bayh, wouldn’t be nearly as bad a move. ok - he’s 80, but still brighter than Dim Son.

Joe on the shitter! I agree that this is funny…all the different meanings.
Can I share? My son spent an entire day knocking on doors for Obama last week, fund raising - North Hollywood, CA — lower to middle class neighborhood. He told me that a LOT of people yelled at him. Some R’s who said they hate McCain will vote for Obama, but wouldn’t donate any money. More D’s voiced real concerns with their perceived shift in Obama - most vehemently about the FISA vote. Son did not return to that job the next day.

You is prolly correct.

It just doesn’t say much about Obama’s respect for the intelligence of at least some of those who MIGHT support him … but the calculus is, I’m certain this will be a big surprise, that we haven’t ANY choice …

This prolly won’t be the last time …

;~D

sending a coke up your way. *g*

I noticed that in the fdl newsbox there is is a poll out that says Obama is losing support among the young and women. Maybe that’s because after his victory over Clinton he has been running to the right and promoting his new platform: Change you can’t believe in.

I said this last night. Obama ran a brilliant primary campaign but as happens with so many Democratic candidates his general election campaign sucks. In his case, this is especially egregious because all he really needs to win is to keep repeating ad infinitum “If you want more of the same, vote John McCain.” Instead he has surrounded himself with conservative University of Chicago economic types, legal goofs like Cass Sunstein, and a whole slew of Clinton holdovers who creak their ideas are so old and worn. Change indeed!

And of course, the media continues its own campaign to elect John McCain. I sometimes wonder why the Republicans even bother to have a party anymore when they have the media. They’re better heeled, far more servile, and even mostly potty trained.

Oh, I forgot to add my point to that story…I don’t see Bayh as helping his campaign. I think he needs someone More Progressive, not less.

Sort of the Harriet Miers/Samuel Alito ploy then, eh? I like the way you think selise, but given prior experience I would be worried that Obama could pick someone worse than Bayh ; )

If Susan is smarter than her husband, then nominate her for VP, whydontcha?

What do I need a coke for? I guess I am missing the joke. Picking Birch Bayh would be a great move. I don’t know where Birch stood on Iraq, but look at Birch’s legacy in the Senate. I’ll take Birch on my side any day.

OT - T.Boone live now on MSNBC:

Q - “What’s the answer (to energy crisis)?”

A - “Natural gas”.

gee, what a surprise….

Obama’s general election campaign has been unbelievably depressing to watch. It’s as if his senior advisers sat down and said, “Okay, we’re getting a late start, so we’re going to have to make all of the classic Democratic mistakes in record time.”

If Susan is smarter than her husband, then nominate her for VP, whydontcha?

You’re new around here, huh? I just say that because it appears that you’re taking me seriously.

Welcome, and in the future, I’ll try to be more careful to insert the /s (close snark) tag.

howdy phred, hope all is well with you.

given prior experience I would be worried that Obama could pick someone worse than Bayh

once again my bubble of wishful thinking is punctured by the historical record.

Who are you people? If Barack picks Bayh, as a man to “help me govern”, what does that say about his leadership and the future of his administration? Tell you what it says to me: that it will be weak and will compromise on anything or everything. Apparently, it would mean there is nothing for which the Obama administration will stand up; not global warming or things that will hurt our collective environment or make some places (like Phoenix, for instance) uninhabitable, not the Bill of Rights or the Constitutional concepts of checks and balances or separation of powers, not war. Isn’t Barack already exhibiting some of these wishy-washy tendencies without an even weaker partner? I couldn’t be much more disappointed, as if that weren’t already true before he started saying, once again, he doesn’t want the perfect to be the enemy of the good, this time in regard to off-shore drilling. He still has to be better than McShame (that’s not exactly a high bar to beat,) but my expectations have certainly dropped of late.

LOL. I can see that, Selise…

My conservative dad hated Birch Bayh…I never understood when I was young and naive…

As I posted prior, Evan isn’t as popular as the press would like people to think. He froze State employee wages, which were already below livable wages, for three years. State employees had a few choice words for “Barbie and Ken”. So, yeah, Evan is not empathetic with the plight of the working folk.

…don’t they remind you of another Hoosier couple…*cough* Dan and Marilyn? *cough*

Obama’s general election campaign has been unbelievably depressing to watch. It’s as if his senior advisers sat down and said, “Okay, we’re getting a late start, so we’re going to have to make all of the classic Democratic mistakes in record time.”

LOL This is my impression as well.

don’t they remind you of another Hoosier couple…*cough* Dan and Marilyn? *cough*

hey - knock it off - it’s taken me years to try to purge those memories. *g*

And - Yes.

Apparently Obama and his advisors have failed to ‘grasp’ that he is rapidly becoming the purveyor of ‘chump change’.

But that’s what happens when you move a widdle too far to the ‘middle’.

But, in terms of America’s greater ‘karma’, Obama is rising impecably to the occassion.

It really is troubling to me. He’s playing “not to lose”, which is a horrible strategy. He’s one of the most dynamic speakers we’ve got, and he’s running against a bland, half-senile old man. And yet he’s afraid of debates and town halls? Come ON. Up the ante. Tell McCain that you’ll debate him any time, any place, even if it means one debate a day until the election. Stop being such a weenie. That’s why Kerry got clobbered.

Evidently Joe was conducting the interview on the toilet, and the sound of flushing could be heard in the background.

We always knew Joe was talking out both ends. I suppose the fact that he can transact business in a restroom confirms that he’ll be at the RNC.

Hiya selise — sorry to burst your bubble so fast ; ) I’m fine, been traveling a lot and off the toobz mostly. Hope all is well with you!

LOL

Sort of OT: It really bothers me that the only “bold” political move that I can think of by any leader on the world stage this year has been by Iraq’s Nouri Al-Maliki. He brilliantly sawed off the neo-cons at the knees by saying he wanted American troops out of Iraq. And note HOW he did it: He went to a German magazine. It speaks volumes that he didn’t bother with the US MSM. He gave the biggest scoop of the year to “Der Spiegel”.

bubble bursting is all for the good. thanks!

And what if that nobody has to become preznit because something happens to the “sombody?”

Sorry, I want someone of top caliber in that office. Not a nobody.

Is it for sure that it will not be Hillary?

I’ve thought for a while now that Obama’s shift toward “the center” was simply an attempt to win over the MSM/pundits - helped by McSame’s increasingly negative attacks. Bayh seems like more of the same.

That having been said, I hope selise is right and it’s just a “head fake.”

Sadly, yes.

Let’s see how far Obama can go to depress his base?

Yup. This ‘ll do it—all the way down to the sub-basement.

I understand all the anti-Obama sentiment, but it’s more about how politically weak liberals still are.

I have fully supported our position on FISA, but it’s not going to win or lose anyone an election in 2008. Hopefully, it will cost Steny his seat in 2010.

IMHO elections will be decided based on who Americans think can lower their gasoline and natural gas prices.

Also over at Swampland, the presidential debate moderators have been announced:

Jim Lehrer
Gwen Ifill
Bob Schieffer

Happy Groundhog Day.

You may have forgotten that in debate format he far from shined. On the stump, in front of a big audience, even doing meet and greet he did well. In the debates I don’t think he “won” any of them.

Then again against McLame, anything’s possible. But in that format, the press would dissect every little word and facial expression he emitted. Not the same for McLame. He always gets a pass.

IMHO elections will be decided based on who Americans think can lower their gasoline and natural gas prices.

Should have been

IMHO most national elections will be decided primarily on who Americans think can lower their gasoline and natural gas prices.

I was going to say that the best thing about Evan Bayh is that Birch is his daddy! As a former Indiana resident (for the first 40 years of my life) I don’t remember Birch Bayh as being nearly as blah as his son.

if my wag is correct, it will still be someone horrible. just that whoever it is will be slightly better than bayh and that comparison will make him/her look better than they should.

i hope i’m wrong and obama picks someone good. but i think phred is more likely on target. :(

I repeat:

Bayh
Byah
Blah

I share the complaints, but in defense of the Obama campaign: criticizing the Democratic candidate’s campaign strategy is perennial and inevitable. After all, have you ever seen a Democrat really attack a Republican on all fronts?

There’s a reason for that: the game is rigged — the MSM is engineered to amplify Republican taunts, libel, lies, and to exclude Democrats. Witness last week, or the Clinton story today.

You mean like Tim Kaine?

Equally sucky.

Wes Clarke.

I understand all the anti-Obama sentiment, but it’s more about how politically weak liberals still are.

I think the weakness is only within the national Democratic establishment, not the electorate. Obama’s popularity was based on a real desire of the public to move national policy to the left. The public is ready to vote for liberals, the Democratic establishment is unwilling to put them up for election.

A Bayh pick would change Obama from the Man with Hope into the Man from Hope.
for more see, http://koulflo.wordpress.com/2.....wednesday/

Thanks Rahm.

You may have forgotten that in debate format he far from shined. On the stump, in front of a big audience, even doing meet and greet he did well. In the debates I don’t think he “won” any of them.

Then again against McLame, anything’s possible. But in that format, the press would dissect every little word and facial expression he emitted. Not the same for McLame. He always gets a pass.

He held his own against Hillary Clinton, who is arguably one of the best debaters that we’ve got. He should be able to handle McCain, who can barely string a sentence together these days. And the contrast between the two of them together on a stage is going to be striking. The Dems should want MORE debates with the GOP, not fewer. Al Gore didn’t hit his stride until the 3rd one. Kerry would have been much better off being paired with Bush again and again and again. If you believe (and I do) that you have the better candidate, you shouldn’t be afraid to prove it.

At MSNBC, by the way, that Clinton story had the headline “Did Clinton diss Obama?”

Booman:

From a strictly ideological point of view, Evan Bayh represents the Clintons by proxy among members of the known short-list. He’s the only person under serious consideration that endorsed Clinton during the campaign. He’s a former chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council. There’s a very good chance that Bayh would staff up the Naval Observatory with a bunch of also-rans and cast-offs from the Clinton campaign, giving them new life and hope for a role in a future presidency. For Team Clinton, Evan Bayh represents their best hope for jobs and significance in an Obama administration. These attacks on Obama are sending a clear message that they can make trouble for Obama if he shuts them out. As I see it, this is not really a lobbying campaign for Hillary, who they all know is persona non grata in the Obama household. It’s an oblique campaign for Bayh.

oomph added.

Obama’s a very good basketball player. Head fakes are one of the most successful tools of that game. I’m thinking that’s what this Ever Blah stuff is…sorta like this in 2004, when Kerry picked Gephardt was the big scoop:

http://narcosphere.narconews.c.....side-track

On the other hand, if it is Blah, I’m gonna seriously have to reconsider my support for Obama. I’ve been actively working against the DLC since 1992, and Ever Blah used to be the head of the DLC, like H. Clinton. I can understand some of the bad votes, but a VP pick is purely about his judgment. No excuses on this one.

no, no, no. please no.

see the questions i asked him? and see his answers?

and that was me trying to be polite.

Kerry was head and shoulders better than W in the debates but by the time the trad. media got done with him you’d never have known it.

And what about that “backpack” that NO ONE in trad. med. got to the bottom of?

Not arguing that O could run rings around McLame, but the stoopid public still allows the media to tell them what they just saw and heard.

I want to just wretch. I may have to go cold turkey and go back to reading novels and watching old movies to get through the next few months.

Ha. Hadn’t seen it yet, but Al Giordano’s on the basketball theme as well, and noticed a comment upthread also. Goddamn, I hope this is a head fake.

Yeah, left /s out of my comment as well. ;-)

Obama will disappoint a lot of people if Bayh is his VP choice.
They’ll probably vote for him anyway.

“Change We Can Believe In” - I think Obama’s change meme is aimed at the Republicans. He’s saying to them, I’m safe, I’m the candidate you were hoping for to head the Republican ticket, except I’m a Democrat, and I’m black. I expect he’ll name McCain as his VP choice.

wes clark:

Today, I am proud to announce my endorsement of Senator Hillary Clinton as President of the United States.

Senator Hillary Clinton has earned the support of millions of Americans in her campaign for president — and today I am pleased to count myself among them. The world has reached a critical point, and we need a leader in the White House with the courage, intelligence and humility to navigate through many troubling challenges to our security at home and abroad. I believe Senator Clinton is that leader, and I whole-heartedly endorse her for President of the United States.

Politics is about winning and losing. The Repubs win because they stand with their candidates. The Dems lose because we do not. Not only do we give the Repubs talking points but we echo theirs. It isn’t Bayh yet but there will be plenty of people who won’t like whoever it is.

If the dems really cared about that, they wouldn’t give us so much to bitch about. They have essentially told us to STFU and be good little boys and girls and vote for their guy because it’s the only choice we have.

If they’d start acting on principle it would be different. But they don’t. Over and over again, they don’t.

Much appreciated.

perhaps. nobody’s the perfect choice.. Glenn Greenwald:

On a somewhat related note, Matt Stoller and others have commenced a petition and related campaign to urge Obama to select Wes Clark as his running mate. They make a compelling case as to why, of all the prospective choices, Clark is far and away the best — both on the merits and politically. Those interested can read about their campaign and participate here.

Not arguing that O could run rings around McLame, but the stoopid public still allows the media to tell them what they just saw and heard.

All the more reason for more debates. The more you have, the more likely the average voter is to actually see a debate, or at least part of one.

Kerry was head and shoulders better than W in the debates but by the time the trad. media got done with him you’d never have known it.

This is a dramatic understatement. Bush was a twitching shambles, such an incoherent wreck that he made even white male Republicans uneasy. Something was visibly wrong with him. The media, of course, wouldn’t call a spade a spade, but Bush’s performances were “unfiltered”, there for everyone to see. Yet even that exposure wasn’t enough to prevent Bush from securing the election. It was a very discouraging precedent. McCain may be comparably bad, but by themselves debates won’t be a crucial factor, unless they work in some way to the detriment of Obama.

Lieberman has his tail between something, I don’t know what.
If I could make a list of persons I thought Obama should not chose as VP, Chuck Hagel and any other republican plus Evan Bayh would probably be on that list. If Obama wanted someone from the Hillary camp, he could have picked Wes Clark or Clinton herself.

punaise;

Rather than directing us to someone else’s reasons for supporting Wes Clark, would you, whom I feel I’ve come to ‘know’, trust and greatly appreciate ( for far more than your finely-honed and devastatingly delicious humor) would you be willing to share yours?

I wasn’t aware that Bayh was that identified with Hillary’s campaign or a former DLC chairman - just thought he was a DLC-type. This would be a way for Obama to placate the Hillary supporters without actually taking on all the Hillary baggage. Seems more likely than I thought.

Republicans win because the media stand with their candidates, not because “we” do.

The difference was that Kerry was one of the worst candidates I have ever seen. He appeared to be aloof and cold and humorless.

i know some of matt’s backstory wrt clark. i have always found it the opposite of compelling.

good call. have to run, but will check back later to hopefully read the punster punaise’s take on clark.

This is an obscure explanation for Bayh that I just don’t understand. How does it “placate” Hillary Clinton’s supporters; it clearly doesn’t please any of them here. People don’t vote for these kinds of things.

Picking Bayh would serve a narrow purpose: trying to win Indiana, which undoubtedly holds a special place in Obama’s heart. It’s the same reason Kaine’s name has been bruited (that word was for punaise) about.

It would be dispiriting to have a pro-war DLCer on the ticket, but it’s not that important. Just think: what did the optimal VP choice, Edwards, do for Kerry?

If he had won he would have undoubtedly had gravitas.

Gosh, come to think of it, he sounds a lot like our current candidate, who’s aloof and cool and presumptuous. Like I said, Groundhog Day. A tenaciously biased press will make any Democratic candidate seem like the worst you’ve ever seen.

sorry, gotta run.

Another time then, punaise?

I am willing to hear your thoughts, in fact, would welcome them.

If you care to throw in some humor, then I’ll, doubtless, ENJOY them thar thoughts, as well.

;~D

I was thinking more of the Hillary supporters in the party hierarchy rather than the rank and file.

It would make sense for Obama to ask Ever Blah to attend an event in Indiana, where it also makes sense to name his VP. A couple days before the Olympics start on Fri is also a good idea. Simply announcing his VP in IN would help his chances there, and having Blah there no matter who it is will also help.

Obama/Howard Dean 08! Oh yeah.

sh*t, you mean I can’t just throw something out there and hope it sticks? :~)

in all honesty I don’t feel that strongly about Clark (witness my misspelling of his name previously). I’d rather have Gore, not gonna happen of course. well before the press tore Clark to shreds for “denigrating” McThirdterm’s service (not true) I thought he would be three-fer:

- a good “unity” choice as a solid Clintonista
- military cred (some say this is not the right strategy, plugging a perceived weakness)
- not one to mince his words

I’ll give selise’s links a chance. who’s your choice?

I’m all ears, but I still don’t understand what this really means in terms of money or whatever.

By the way, as a matter of perspective, we should all remember that McCain’s campaign is shitty. You should find his latest tack, a “positive” narrative heartening.

His campaign consists largely of complaints that Obama is popular and that the economy is in shambles. I guess this could be a winning combination if you consider the public’s appetite for Spite.

The politic of compromise does not work. We see the results: destr0yed economy, 5 years of war, trillions of debt and compromise on the death of our eco-systems. progressive is rational the rest is greed.

In terms of reason, as you say Gore would be good.

Most of my pther ‘choices’ would be from the SEnate, but we can’t afford to do that, even if the ‘leadership is too dense to understand why.

So, just for sanity’s sake, innovative grasp and signal courage, how about Kucinich?

Of, right he’s too short.

Actually, if Obama were not so feckless and fickle, Dennis would be his best pickle.

(See, punaise you have af-af-af …. affected me.)

;~D

Dennis would be his best pickle.

not gerkin us around?

:~)

I’m no dill-ettante, and I relish your unencucumbered wit!!!

it’s my bread and butter, so to speak.

Um … and it capers joyously in the gales of laughter you leave in your wake.

No matter how hard I may try, I just cannot ketchup with you, oh master of wit.

You are simply, in a word, but one full of all meaning, absolutely, completely, totally … ‘it’!

All hail!

Punasise!!!

(You realize that it takes time to recover from rolling around on the floor? Sometimes I wonder, where does punaise ALWAYS find more.

Seriously, punaise, whom would you REALLY like to see standing next (in line) to Obama?

Shameful. Making fun of a sitting United States Senator. Seems to me he’s just trying to pass along his opinion of McLame. And I’m confident Joe would never water anything down would he? I only hope he can come out of this with a clean conscience.

And let’s also make fun of the woman on The NewsHour last night screeching out the McC energy policy and attacking Ob. The Blonde’s name is something that goes Pf…..(long word.) She was so rude and hard to listen to my mind would not get around her long name. She was also rude to the Ob. spokesman. Again….where do they get these people. Get the hook.

The ‘excellence’ of Obama’s ‘choice’, whomever it turns out to be, will reflect Obama’s sense of so many things, about which we “don’t know the half …”

His Vice Presidential choice will reflect the last full measure of Obama’s courage, sense of himself, and whatever consideration he may have for history, consequence, justice and the needs and hopes of the people.

The question is, which ‘people’?

Kucinich sorta sounds like a pickle doesn’t it?

And punaise’s pun is wonderful, the piclayune in me would point out the alternate spelling gherkin.

Evan is no Birch Bayh … and that’s a shame.

BAC