In light of deteriortating conditions in Afghanistan and its border area with Pakistan, both Obama and McCain have called for additional US combat forces. Progressives have been debating the merits of more US troops versus other strategies for dealing with the situation.
I’ve outlined a series of questions to help frame a discussion, starting with the least controversial and evolving towards interventionist policies. One can see how a different answer at any point could lead to a different set of policy choices. Consider the following:
1. Do we hold a group which we call "al Qaeda" and bin Ladin responsible for 9/11 and other attacks on the US, and do we believe they will attack us again if not stopped?
2. If so, do we believe that group’s core leadership is based somewhere in Afghanistan/Pakistan border region?
3. Do we believe the US has a right to bring this group "to justice"? As in capture/kill them etc? And if so . . .
4. Does that justify a military intervention for that purpose? Is that the best response?
5. Do we believe the "Taliban" either were harboring this core al Qaeda group, or would harbor them if the Taliban could return to power in any significant portion of Afghanistan/Pakistan?
6. If so, does that justify a military intervention to keep the Taliban from seizing military and/or political control over these regions?
7. If yes, do we believe the US should intervene unilaterally, or intervene only in concert with others (NATO, UN)? (e.g., within some established international legal framework?)
8. Even if none of the above were true/relevant, do we believe military intervention in Afghan would be justified on humanitarian grounds; that is, to remove and keep the Taliban from power on the grounds their regime’s treatment of its people was intolerable?
Answering these questions provides one possible framework for debating the merits of expanded military intervention in Afghanistan and even into Northwest Pakistan. Most of the disagreements I’ve seen start with different answers somewhere along that chain of questions, but without stating the implicit beliefs. US policy appears to have answered all these question with "yes," even accepting unilateral intervention if needed.
Even if one gets through 1-6, accepting unilateral intervention is a sticking point for some both because of a preference for a framework of international law to guide/limit such interventions, and because the US record in unilateral interventions – Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Fallujah, etc — is not good.
Whether US forces are disciplined enough to implement a “protect the population” strategy is debatable; daily news stories and Suin’s posts remind us we have been careless/reckless of life in Iraq, even though Petraeus and McCain claim we are there to protect the population and "know how to win wars." The civilian casualty lists and the repeated incidents where US troops (and contractors) are not held accountable are not encouraging, and our record in Afghan seems no better. Is it realistic to expect a foreign invading army to avoid this trap and stay true to its claimed objectives?
I think the argument for #8 – humanitarian interventions – is morally stronger than 1-6, which while premised on self defense seem more based on revenge or retribution. I believe there are regimes whose treatment of their people is just too horrible to be allowed. But I’m not sure how we wind up intervening in Afghan and not many other places. If this argument is to be the justification, it becomes even clearer that intervention should be a multilateral obligation, under international law and oversight, not a unilateral US decision.
I’ve often avoided posts debating whether the "surge" worked because I was prepared to concede that it is possible for a large nation with a huge military backed by massive air power to crush a local population and subdue it for a period. We had to "destroy the village to save it," so we crushed Fallujah, and that became an implicit threat in Basra and Sadr City.
Here’s a final test: consider what happened two weeks ago, when nine US soldiers were killed, their position overrun by forces crossing the border near their outpost. It’s pretty obvious we didn’t have enough troops to watch everything without exposing our troops to intolerable risks. The US subsequently drew back, leaving that route open. Discussions about what to do in Afghanistan need to address that incident: would you leave that outpost open? or reinforce it?
The questions above are just one way to facilitate a discussion. And if you only get so far on the list, then you face another line of questions that starts, "okay, if not that, then what?"



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hi scarecrow.
off to read.
G’day, greenwarrior. I assume you’re not a ninja turtle. Do you work in the environmental field? Just curious.
Afghanistan is the ball buster for empires. ask the soviets, ask the british, ask the persians. we arent even supposed to be an empire, just citizen farmers.
what are we thinking?
1. That’s what they say.
2. Maybe UBS is in Saudi Arabia? Training camps now in Pakistan?
I wish we could somehow stop this mass transformation of wealth from the United States to former fascist empires. Hmmm, what a concept?
i think you’re asking this question with your number 4, but i’ll be explicit:
and for your number 8, i’d also go with:
i don’t think we’ve asked (or attempted to honestly answer) these questions.
my political activism started with environmental activism til i realized (duh) that who’s in office makes a difference with what happens in the environment. now, with our loss of habeas corpus and honest elections, etc. (alas), there are bigger fish to fry than even my beloved earth, sea, sand and sky.
3. capture UBL to bring to trial
4. by means of special ops
It’s a shame we let Bin Forgotten slip away in Tora Bora…!
why not negotiate for extradition?
1. Yes
2. most likely, but then again…
5. yes
7. at this point, beings that we’ve screwed up so much, unilaterally is not my first choice.
8. We had our chance.
selise – that’s brilliant! we should have done that immediately while we had the world’s good will, and never gone to war.
Hi Scarecrow. Those are excellent questions. The problem as I see it is that I personally don’t know WHAT to believe. All I hear is from this government and I wouldn’t trust them if they told me there was heat in August. We need to be accurately informed, not propagandized to death in order to think properly about these issues. And we are not!
Yes, let’s bring all our troops home. Now.
Dugg Thanks to Thomas Mifflin:>)
was just thinking we could, you know, pretend to be a civilized nation?
personally, i think we are doing way more harm than good in afghanistan, what with torture, mass murder, extraordinary rendition, bombing and killing innocent people. no, i don’t think the u.s. govt can be trusted to do good by sending in more military. the track record gives no reason to believe that’ll happen. and we can use the money at home – there are lots of good places that money can be used especially in our current sinking economic situation.
Ironically, we never really went into Afghanistan with any sizable forces from the outset… The CIA armed with duffelbags of cash did most of the initial dirty work…!
1. Do we hold a group which we call “al Qaeda” and bin Ladin responsible for 9/11 and other attacks on the US, and do we believe they will attack us again if not stopped?
The FBI does not have OBL on the most wanted list for the 9/11 attacks.
2. If so, do we believe that group’s core leadership is based somewhere in Afghanistan/Pakistan border region?
There exists a “group”, but I don’t know who they really are or who finances them.
3. Do we believe the US has a right to bring this group “to justice”? As in capture/kill them etc? And if so . . .
We do not have irrefutable proof that OBL was responsible. What we do know is that the “hijackers” were citizens of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt.
4. Does that justify a military intervention for that purpose? Is that the best response?
Reinvestigating 9/11 independently is the best course, because there are too many questions about what actually occurred…and too many things not in the 9/11 Commission report…e.g., Norman Mineta’s testimony that he believed that there was a shootdown order and believed that a plane was shot down.
5. Do we believe the “Taliban” either were harboring this core al Qaeda group, or would harbor them if the Taliban could return to power in any significant portion of Afghanistan/Pakistan?
The spokesman for the Taliban was granted a visa to attend Yale in the years following 9/11. The Taliban was negotiating the Unocal oil pipeline prior to 9/11 and was in Houston meeting with the oil companies. They didn’t want to grant the pipeline through Afghanistan. Start there.
6. If so, does that justify a military intervention to keep the Taliban from seizing military and/or political control over these regions?
Does it justify the United States using a military intervention to keep the Taliban from power in these regions.
7. If yes, do we believe the US should intervene unilaterally, or intervene only in concert with others (NATO, UN)? (e.g., within some established international legal framework?)
Diplomacy and truth. We need the truth. We’ve been consistently lied to.
8. Even if none of the above were true/relevant, do we believe military intervention in Afghan would be justified on humanitarian grounds; that is, to remove and keep the Taliban from power on the grounds their regime’s treatment of its people was intolerable?
Is it justifiable for the Taliban to intervene in the United States militarily, because humanitarian grounds as the result of the treatment of Taliban or others at Gitmo?
Now, I’m ducking under the table…*g*
Two additional questions to be asked:
Are we willing to continue to spend at least 1/2 trillion dollars a year to sustain the mission? Can we afford this? Will we at least put it into the national budget rather than a supplimental bill to hide the effects.
Are we willing to at least discuss the possibility of a draft to be able to sustain another 5 years or more of full scale conflict? We’ve already redeployed our combat troop 3, 4 or more times. There is a breaking point.
love your answer to number 8. right on.
By my nearest calculation, the US is transferring almost $17.5 Billion Dollars in exports to primarily hostile countries. (Saudia Arabia, Venezualia, Nigeria, Russia, Etc…)on a DAILY BASIS! Of course the Oil companies get a percentage of that total every day which is why of course they make more money than GOD. Oil is a fundemental primary component, it should be regulated just like Insurance or Finance or any other rudimentary element of our Economy.
The Cost to produce plus a modest fee to bring the goods to Market. Why is it the Oil companies are the Prima Donna’s of the Marketplace? Do they deserve to earn and perform better than the Market because why? They can is why. Power Rules without Governing principles to apply correction.
Left ya one on the previous thread. Had to go feed the tigers.
Hey we all know it was part of the plan so they could make this “War on Terra” go on and on and on and on….
Come on now they had to make some big $$$ on this thing didn’t they??? /s
another question:
for example, what do the people of pakistan think about us making afghanistan a vassal state? i don’t know, but when i look at a map of pakistan, i see india on one side and afghanistan on the other. i wonder what pakistanis think about our support for india’s nuclear weapons program? does that disturb them? would they therefore not want us to be successful in making afghanistan a vassal state? might that concern be strong enough to motivate any action (or inaction) on their part?
imo, we have no fucking clue. we go around the world like a bull in a china shop. only we break real people. it’s time to stop.
1) We tried and failed. It’s time to pull back, regroup, and stop killing civilians.
2) If we don’t know with certainty by now. It’s time to pull back and stop killing civilians.
3) With international support, yes.
4) We no longer have that support.
5) skip
6) It’s certainly doesn’t justify it forever.. over five failed years now.
7) Only in concert, especially for extended occupational regime changes.
8) It should be irrelevant now. We had our chance and failed.
An interesting link here – with poll info on what Afghan citizens think about the Taliban and more.
Thanks SD.
Good subject for a post! Thanks!
This is a very important subject, especially for Obama to think through.
Here’s my take, as someone who’s been interested in Middle Eastern politics for several decades, and who has done field work in Iran.
First, we should NOT make the mistake of trying to make Afghanistan a client state. The British failed in their attempt to do that, as did the Russians.
Second, we our policy should be to prevent Afghanistan from devolving into a “failed State”. That condition is what allowed Al Queda and the Taliban free rein to set up terrorist training camps.
Third, our interventions in Afghanistan should be designed to encourage national development in health, education, and general welfare (including infrastructure and development of democratic institutions). Indigenous democratic institutions, such as the Loya Jirga, should be encouraged on the local, regional and national levels.
All this amounts to “keeping our eyes on the ball.” Over the past 30 years, we have taken our eyes off the ball, or played the wrong game, far too often. Here’s a convenient capsule summary by Stephen Zunes from 2003,
via Common Dreams:
Clinton took his eyes off the ball in his first term. Much of the rest of the time, we indulged in a perverted version of the British Great Game.
We still have our fingers in the Great Game, but as Zunes suggests, we have usually botched the job, or turned our backs to let chaos reign. We can’t afford either, in the years ahead.
Bob in HI
Let’s not get drawn too far into false equivalences. Whatever problems the US has, it has not (yet) applied a version of fundamentalist religious law that is, frankly, more brutal and primitive than that most Muslim areas had in the 10th century.
1) Someone’s hurting.
2) You might be able to help him.
3) Do you try?
Maybe not, maybe you probably can’t. Maybe you’ll do more harm than good. But a blanket answer that you can never get involved means accepting anything that other people do to each other. Should we have intervened in a big way to stop the machete genocide in the 90s? If you answer yes, then you’ve admitted that self-determination is not always in play. At that point, we’re haggling over where you draw the line.
I’m looking for more information on our black site prisons in Afghanistan. I’m wondering just how much of our Gitmo style operations have a) always taken place there and b) are ongoing or increasing now?
The link I provided above talks about children living their entire lives in US/Afghan prisons, among other things.
One of Obama’s major challenges will be defining just what “the mission” in Afghanistan is. He has already showed a vastly higher level of awareness of the strategic issues than George Bush (or Dick Cheney, who is the de facto station chief for Central Asia). The importance of this challenge cannot be overstated.
Bob in HI
This doesn’t bode well…
And Cambodia didn’t have nukes, like Pakistan has…!
Hi Scarecrow, it’s nice to read you in real time. Back to work soon, when I only get to read your work and not comment. More excellent work, thanks.
“I’m looking for more information on our black site prisons in Afghanistan. I’m wondering just how much of our Gitmo style operations have a) always taken place there and b) are ongoing or increasing now?”
Bagram has been the main one, but I’m sure not the only one. It is Gitmo and Abu Ghraib in spades, sharing the worst of both worlds. What have you found out, so far?
Bob in HI
Isn’t it possible Osama’s living quite comfortably in Saudi Arabia? or Dubai?
And what more does he need to do to the US, BushCo is giving him everything on his wish list.
Good questions, especially the second.
Evidently the Bushies don’t. There was Tora Bora and this
btw, Digg this post!
Thanks for this, Scarecrow. It’s been on my mind a lot lately. I’m very concerned about Obama moving troops into the area from Iraq, seemingly without question from anyone. I think it’s a terrible mistake and I glad we re talking about it here.
I agree; my questions assume we get valid information on which to make an intelligent choice; but of course, we don’t have that.
the link at 26 above? i didn’t see any mention of children in prisons in that link.
Not much yet, Bob. Just a lot of suggestions here and there.
i’m not advocating not being involved. i’m advocating my government stop killing people. as i told christy the other day, i’ve supported emergency since 2002 (sadly only in a small way).
my point is not that we should not help, it is that we have to take into account the kind of “help” that is likely to occur. i’d like to see us learn how to provide real, effective aid. but wishes don’t make it so. a very wise man recently wrote, “if politics in the US continues to be driven by a refusal to live in the actual, real world, then problems aren’t going to get fixed.”
i’m just trying to take that message to heart.
The United States did not go into Afghanistan with the understanding that they were going in to alleviate humanitarian injustices….they went in because they believed that Al Qaeda was being harbored in Afghanistan by the Taliban, and that Al Qaeda had attacked the US. That is based upon the official story. Had the Taliban systematically, and perhaps they did, violate humanitarian rights, such as in Sudan…without the 9/11 attacks being a factor, the US would not have gone in…unless it was to secure oil. Karen Kwiatkowski describes in detail where the “bases” were to be…along the oil pipeline route. This entire Bushco war scenario is about oil….we know for a fact that Bushco does not hesitate to use depleted uranium, napalm, or Willy Pete on civilians. They could care less about protecting humans. They showed that in our country, when they didn’t drop water bottles from a helicopter for the people in NOLA who suffered for 5 days.
Sorry, different link on the children in prisons here.
well said.
i’m concerned that honorable humanitarian impulses are being manipulated to justify actions that are not humanitarian.
Before 9/11 the NYTimes reported the abuses towards females and the destruction of historic sites but we turned a blind eye. After 9/11 we invaded and left just like many countries before us, why would the Afghans think that this time will be different?
Absolutely. It is about what is strategically important to those in power to secure what they like to call American “interests”. People are basically in the way…
They follow a culture similar to an exterminator. Eliminate the pests. They leave in place those that they consider useful and non-threatening to their agenda, that can contribute to the furthering of their ability to profit from exploiting the resources in question.
All kinds of awful human violations are reported and nothing is done. It is never done to protect “people”, it is always to protect national security or American interests. Callous, but true.
1,725 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Great post Citizen Scarecrow, because you raise the questions in a sequence that does not disclose an answer to the larger question which is: “what the fuck are we doin’ in Afghanistan absent regional cooperation and UN coordination?”. Afghanistan is history’s assassin of empires and empire wannabes…and this last American fascist administration has recreated an international political complex that is more complicated than the end of Byzantium and allows the shadowy forces of international capital to obligate national governments in opposition to each other in this region in the interest of corporate exploiters.
When are we gunna wake up and smell the coffee…there can’t be a rational foreign policy for the United States in this region (or anywhere for that matter) without the careful cultivation and cooperation of regional governments and the UN. American corporations have controlled American foreign policy since 1952 when the Dulles brothers began the privatization of US intelligence and the US State Dept.
So the questions you raise are good ones and lead us to the understanding that the real battle for us in Iraq and Afghanistan is with our own corporate power brokers and ultimately the purpose of this fight is to break-down the long standing, and publicly subsidized structure of corporate control of our international actions.
By the way Citizen Scarecrow, can anyone comment on your posting or is it reserved for a few of the usual suspects? I hope I didn’t presume upon a space reserved for others.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE IS NO COMPROMISING WITH FASCISM!!
I will qualify this by saying that I think the intervention in Bosnia and Serbia was seemingly honest….I know a bunch of Serbians and Bosnians who are both grateful for the intervention. What the overriding motivations were, I’m not 100% sure. I’m not educated on what the other “interests” really would be, other than stability in the region. Different administration, different motives.
I’m not sure what you mean? “By the way Citizen Scarecrow, can anyone comment on your posting or is it reserved for a few of the usual suspects? I hope I didn’t presume upon a space reserved for others”
I’ve heard him discuss the mission he wants in Iraq. His mission for Afganistan is much cloudier. And if we attempt to bring the war into Pakistan, we had better plan on being there for years to come. So my original questions of money and manpower are very pertinent.
Citizen JPLN:
The question was to Scarecrow because there has been a recent outbreak of scrubbing comments in response to some guest posts…and I wanna know where the ‘crow stands in this recent development.
But you can respond if ya have a clue…
Really??
My posts are reserved for the usual suspects; and all of you are suspect.
Yep…”REALLY”
707 thank goddess…
Thanx Crow…I figured as much but I jest wanna make sure I understand where the “free speech” zones are around here.
thanks ES. horrifying.
Thanks for your response because I also had no idea but I figure that if Crow lets me spout anyone can.
So…now everybody who commented on this post has to wonder if they are considered a “usual suspect”???? That is ridiculous.
Citizen LS, relax, you’re a “usual suspect” here, that should make ya feel good.
Before 9/11 the NYTimes actually did decent reporting on the Taliban and what was going on in Afghanistan but we as a nation ignored it. Personally this is one nation I would not ignore.
ot, so do you think that you are a suspect?
Whew…!!! I miss a couple of people not here anymore…they know who they are.
Two additional questions to be asked:
Are we willing to continue to spend at least 1/2 trillion dollars a year to sustain the mission? Can we afford this? Will we at least put it into the national budget rather than a supplimental bill to hide the effects.
Are we willing to at least discuss the possibility of a draft to be able to sustain another 5 years or more of full scale conflict? We’ve already redeployed our combat troop 3, 4 or more times. There is a breaking point.
Right are we willing to send enough troops to do the job and spend enough money to equip them right, if not lets stay home.
Also suppose we spent all the war money on hybrid cars just how much would that drop oil demand and hurt every oil country that gave Ossama money?
What would hurt Ossama more a war in mountains he knows like the back of his hand or a demand created drop in oil prices?
Before you go off asking question, please state your objectives:
Only then can the question be placed into context.
Please remember, armies don’t win was, they just maintain the stalemate until the enemy’s economy collapses.
Money in Iraq, imo, is a waste but not so much in Afghanistan. I’m not sure that I can explain exactly why but the taliban are so repressive there’s no hope.
Me too. Maybe when all the election dust settles one or more will return. Here’s hoping… (You know who you are if you’re lurking!)
We should have gone into afghanistan and rid the place of the Taliban. they are terrible to the people and especially women. Now we have lost control of the Taliban, the warlords and the poppy fields. I have no idea what to do now.
I guess that answers “another” main question pretty well….!
Scary, huh!
True.
Money is much better spent in Afghanistan, however not bombs and guns money, schools and clinics money. The day Baghdad fell I said to my boss that what they should do with Abu Ghraib was gut the place, turn a small part into a museum to commemorate the horrors that had happened there, and turn the rest into computer classrooms for Iraqi kids. Oh well….
Why the draft, just nationalize all the private security contractors?. They are already committed and equipped, but out of control and far to expensive. /s
Seriously, Bring them all home now!
I was kidding Norske; if you are suspect for reading/commenting here, it’s from NSA, not me or anyone else at FDL.
And to be clear, there aren’t different rules for my posts, versus Ian’s versus Jane’s, etc. The rules are FDL wide, regardless of poster. They’re pretty simple: We’re a community and would like to keep it that way. e.g., Don’t insult or abuse other commenters; don’t threaten violence. The mods are the enforcers, not the posters, (unless you really try to piss me off). We love our mods.
This can hardly be considered a recommendation, as better that nothing might be quite shitty.
War Nerd sez Afghan fight is ethnic conflict where plurality Pashtuns (ie Taliban) want their share of political power. I’ll try to search out the reference.
But imagine that the U.S., with the big hammer military, so Afghan looks like a nail, should do something intelligent instead of sending troops, like try to broker a political rapproachment. Be still my thumping heart.
I miss Steve AR.
Citizen LS, relax, you’re a “usual suspect” here, that should make ya feel good.
Unless the FBI comes for us but hey Martyrs go straight to heaven:) Boy won’t Bush and the neo cons be surprised watching us from the other side.
What part of treat others like you want to be treated is to hard to understand? What part of waterboarding innocent people without a trial makes you think you have a shot at heaven?
Excellent post. The problem we have is that the US establishment continue to treat our foreign affairs with Brown People as though it were simply an extension of our successful wars against the American Native population. That mindset is a ticket to disaster. In fact, it has already been a ticket to two disasters: Vietnam and Iraq, and will surely be a ticket to the third in Afghanistan.
The mindset comes from our having exterminated tribes who for one reason or another either got in the way of the colonists, or killed a few, opening themselves to reprisal. Cases too well known to give instances. This is not the same world, but our military ‘deep thinkers’ haven’t caught up with a truth they should have learned from Vietnam and the Russian experience in Afghanistan.
We should deal with the Taliban. There’s no other choice, and we might as well make the best of a bad deal. There are no rosy ones on the table. They are not going to invade us, and they are not going to drop one of their non-existent nukes on us. If people would just grow up, they could understand these simple truths.
Revenge is not a policy, especially when directed against the wrong persons.
Kiddo, Lahoma and Raven.
Wish he’d check in and let us know. Hope he’s doing well now.
Exactly, only the Dulles’ were hip deep in it as far back as the first world war when they worked at Sullivan and Cromwell
Here’s the War Nerd reference. A must read.
http://www.exile.ru/articles/d…..LOCK_ID=35
And Biodun.
That’s a bit like saying, “We should go to Georgia and get rid of all the rednecks.” The values and attitudes of the Taliban are not that much different from the values and attitudes of your typical Afghan Pashtun peasant. When I was in grad school (before the Clinton years), I read an essay on Afghan rural culture that pretty much describes what we think of the Taliban today.
Al Qaeda, however, is a different story. In Afghanistan, they were mainly outsiders, often Arabic-speakers like Bin Laden, who were different from the local villagers. IIRC, Bin Laden cemented his relationship with the Pashtun by marrying into some prominent Pashtun families.
Bob in HI
“Money is much better spent in Afghanistan, however not bombs and guns money, schools and clinics money. “
YES!!!
Bob in HI
Can I help??? [Kidding — just kidding, mods!]
Well thats what I was going for cause there is no way Bush/McCain would raise taxes to win a war, tax cuts not troops are the priority.
If anything the idea that you can win a war quick and cheap everytime has been proven false and expensive.
Little wars like Grenda, and Panama just convince neo cons to up the ante more and borrow from the House/China to cover their bets until they win.
We should ask McCain would he raise taxes if he had to, too win the war?
I’m thinking thats a question he does not want to be asked.
I’m thinking that if the troops had gotten bullet proof vests and armored humvees sooner we might have won the war.
But McCain’s Senate Armed Forces Committee was all taking Nap Time.
Yeah!
“War Nerd sez Afghan fight is ethnic conflict where plurality Pashtuns (ie Taliban) want their share of political power. I’ll try to search out the reference.”
This is exactly right, and that is why Obama must be careful in defining his Afghan mission, in order to avoid getting embroiled in local ethnic conflicts. This may be impossible to do. When we invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, we rode the backs of a revolution by the northern tribes against the Pashtun. But to avoid “taking sides,” we avoided pressures to appoint a government consisting wholly of Northern Strongmen. Karzai is himself Pashtun. We thought that would help diplomatically. But the whole place is an ethnic minefield, and that’s why defining the mission is of utmost importance. I’m not sure that it can be done “right.”
Bob in HI
Thanks Scarecrow.
The taliban are so repressive against females, that I’m not sure I can agree.
Well, yes, the War Nerd understands the situation– mostly. But I don’t like his last paragraph, which could have been written by Dougie Feith.
And the War Nerd thinks the Brits know how to do it, and are the professionals whom we should emulate. Only, the Brits couldn’t hold onto either Iraq or Afghanistan, despite the strategic value of those places, not to mention India and Pakistan.
No, colonial empires just don’t work over the long run. And that’s why Obama is going to have to be very careful about defining the mission in Afghanistan.
Bob in HI
I have seen in person the UN Refugee Aid program get taken by tribal chiefs truckloads. And Muslims want to do their own aid program linked to Hezbollah. They know Western aid comes at a price. The hook we want is a say in the political outcome.
Pacification programs have failed almost everywhere. Disater Capitalism works for a few years.
Muslims are even better recruiters than Mormons for cryin out loud.
Every power has to dife others as an enemy and a threat for the never ending war. At some point we have to hold for peace. When?
Do you recall how much we really blew it?
The Taliban offered us UBL for trial, if we would allow the trial in a third (non-capital-punishment?) third country.
You know what happened next—Cheney opted for war. If your only tool is a military, all problems look like wars will “solve” them.