Comments on: First Monday: Civil Liberties, Guantanamo, And Where We Go From Here http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 06:26:42 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: egregious http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568064 egregious Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:35:49 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568064 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/cookie-cutter-justice/" rel="nofollow">New CHS</a></p> New CHS

]]> By: Hugh http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568060 Hugh Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:05:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568060 <blockquote><p>But wouldn’t that be the true execution of justice? That those who were tortured and there is no evidence against them other than what has been obtained by torture, are set free? If they then go out and commit other crimes/acts of terrorism, then it would be on the heads of those who performed the torture and refused to use legitimate sources to make the case.</p> <p>It goes back to the old saying, “better 100 guilty go free than one innocent go to jail.”</p></blockquote> <p>Yes, it would be, but if that is the conclusion then we should have the honesty to say so. It would also be at least in some cases a wildly unpopular and politically untenable position. KSM could be nailed on his statements before his capture but others of the 14 high value prisoners I am less sure about. Those who were captured on a battlefield probably could be tried under some authority. Those who were turned in for bounties almost certainly not.</p>

But wouldn’t that be the true execution of justice? That those who were tortured and there is no evidence against them other than what has been obtained by torture, are set free? If they then go out and commit other crimes/acts of terrorism, then it would be on the heads of those who performed the torture and refused to use legitimate sources to make the case.

It goes back to the old saying, “better 100 guilty go free than one innocent go to jail.”

Yes, it would be, but if that is the conclusion then we should have the honesty to say so. It would also be at least in some cases a wildly unpopular and politically untenable position. KSM could be nailed on his statements before his capture but others of the 14 high value prisoners I am less sure about. Those who were captured on a battlefield probably could be tried under some authority. Those who were turned in for bounties almost certainly not.

]]> By: DWBartoo http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568059 DWBartoo Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:58:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568059 <p>Bob, some will claim we’ve become ‘more and better’, but ‘far less and much worse’ might be closer to the truth.</p> <p>One wonders where ‘we’ will ‘be’ this time, next year?</p> <p>But, actually, it just might take years to get any ‘recognition’ of ‘anything’.</p> <p>The question is not simply,’what have we become’, but also. ‘where are we going’, ‘where do we think we’re going’ and the most critical of all, ‘who cares’?</p> Bob, some will claim we’ve become ‘more and better’, but ‘far less and much worse’ might be closer to the truth.

One wonders where ‘we’ will ‘be’ this time, next year?

But, actually, it just might take years to get any ‘recognition’ of ‘anything’.

The question is not simply,’what have we become’, but also. ‘where are we going’, ‘where do we think we’re going’ and the most critical of all, ‘who cares’?

]]> By: bobschacht http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568056 bobschacht Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:51:00 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568056 <p>So they might as well save a lot of time and money by flipping a coin…<br /> Heads, the Government wins…<br /> Tails, the accused loses…</p> <p>What have we become?</p> <p>Bob in HI</p> So they might as well save a lot of time and money by flipping a coin…
Heads, the Government wins…
Tails, the accused loses…

What have we become?

Bob in HI

]]> By: Teddy Partridge http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568055 Teddy Partridge Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:44:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568055 <p>Thanks to Vince and Steven for a wonderful opportunity today.</p> <p>And thank you, Christy, for making it happen.</p> Thanks to Vince and Steven for a wonderful opportunity today.

And thank you, Christy, for making it happen.

]]> By: DWBartoo http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568054 DWBartoo Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:40:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568054 <p>And Christy;</p> <p>Last but NOT least, thank YOU for this series. It is a ‘must-catch’ occassion, so far as I’m concerned.</p> <p>;~D</p> And Christy;

Last but NOT least, thank YOU for this series. It is a ‘must-catch’ occassion, so far as I’m concerned.

;~D

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568053 bigbrother Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:38:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568053 <p>Your group CCR is awesome taking on CACI and Blackwater in the courts,<br /> Standing on mountain top cheering along with a symphony. Human rights and animal rights. Right on! We owe you.</p> Your group CCR is awesome taking on CACI and Blackwater in the courts,
Standing on mountain top cheering along with a symphony. Human rights and animal rights. Right on! We owe you.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568052 dakine01 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:38:18 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568052 <p>But wouldn’t that be the true execution of justice? That those who were tortured and there is no evidence against them other than what has been obtained by torture, are set free? If they then go out and commit other crimes/acts of terrorism, then it would be on the heads of those who performed the torture and refused to use legitimate sources to make the case.</p> <p>It goes back to the old saying, “better 100 guilty go free than one innocent go to jail.”</p> <p>Obviously YMMV</p> But wouldn’t that be the true execution of justice? That those who were tortured and there is no evidence against them other than what has been obtained by torture, are set free? If they then go out and commit other crimes/acts of terrorism, then it would be on the heads of those who performed the torture and refused to use legitimate sources to make the case.

It goes back to the old saying, “better 100 guilty go free than one innocent go to jail.”

Obviously YMMV

]]> By: DWBartoo http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568051 DWBartoo Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:38:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568051 <p>And thank you, Steven, most heartily as well, for spending time with us.</p> <p>You perspective is much appreciated.</p> And thank you, Steven, most heartily as well, for spending time with us.

You perspective is much appreciated.

]]> By: tw3k http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568049 tw3k Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:37:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/04/first-monday-civil-liberties-guantanamo-and-where-we-go-from-here/#comment-1568049 <p>Yes, excellent First Monday, CHS. Thank you!</p> Yes, excellent First Monday, CHS. Thank you!

]]>