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	<title>Comments on: A Vicious Downward Spiral, or How This Economy Is Going To Play Out: Revisited</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/</link>
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		<title>By: smith9898</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566154</link>
		<dc:creator>smith9898</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566154</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The fact is we know that trickle down economic does not work and it time that the Ameican people be educated on that fact. While the prediction seem dire I also believe we the American people along with our Federal Goverment are going to be involved like we have never been before,Since we are the goverment we are going to need to elect those individual who are going to support the right kinds of policies and programs to move the country forward.  For example, getting completely out of Iraq period.Look at our tax code get rid of all subsidies or tax breaks for big business and others who do not pay taxes. Look at the debt which is 9 trillion and  and has to be paid and the money taken from Social Security must be done.  All govermental agencies must be examined to eliminate waste and fraud and programs which do not work eliminate them or make them better. We must lower our dependence on OIL period. In other words let become a green country by planting more trees,fuel efficent cars,more renewal fuels,improve our infrasture,roads,transportation,subways,water systems,air lines, security and safety programs, work on climate change it a solveable problem for ourselves and the world. Most of all are we as American prepared to sacfrice now for better benefits later. It seems bleak,but there are opportunites to benefits for all of us if we think about a different direction for country and the world.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact is we know that trickle down economic does not work and it time that the Ameican people be educated on that fact. While the prediction seem dire I also believe we the American people along with our Federal Goverment are going to be involved like we have never been before,Since we are the goverment we are going to need to elect those individual who are going to support the right kinds of policies and programs to move the country forward.  For example, getting completely out of Iraq period.Look at our tax code get rid of all subsidies or tax breaks for big business and others who do not pay taxes. Look at the debt which is 9 trillion and  and has to be paid and the money taken from Social Security must be done.  All govermental agencies must be examined to eliminate waste and fraud and programs which do not work eliminate them or make them better. We must lower our dependence on OIL period. In other words let become a green country by planting more trees,fuel efficent cars,more renewal fuels,improve our infrasture,roads,transportation,subways,water systems,air lines, security and safety programs, work on climate change it a solveable problem for ourselves and the world. Most of all are we as American prepared to sacfrice now for better benefits later. It seems bleak,but there are opportunites to benefits for all of us if we think about a different direction for country and the world.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566099</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566099</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My admittedly ignorant understanding is that more dollars would be inflationary, thus requiring US consumers to have more dollars to purchase the same goods just as the consumers’ purchasing power was tanking.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s the effect I see the Treasury’s special lending with CDO collateral having. It’s just putting money into the system and not producing anything. Putting money into the system for infrastructure, using let’s say a new &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WPA&lt;/a&gt; would put those dollars to productive use. Improvements in infrastructure ultimately mean more productivity which tends to bring prices down.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think monetary policy is deliberately trying to cause inflation, to try to keep the housing bubble from collapsing entirely as that would put a floor under asset prices in nominal terms. The loss of purchasing power isn’t reflected in the nominal market value of the underlying collateral, which puts a tax payer supported floor under the toxic waste debts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m not sure that paying off debt in an inflationary environment is good policy - if you have a mortgage for example with interest rates below inflation then you are in a position where you are paying the debt off with dollars that are devaluing faster than the interest charges.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?</p>
<p>My admittedly ignorant understanding is that more dollars would be inflationary, thus requiring US consumers to have more dollars to purchase the same goods just as the consumers’ purchasing power was tanking.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s the effect I see the Treasury’s special lending with CDO collateral having. It’s just putting money into the system and not producing anything. Putting money into the system for infrastructure, using let’s say a new <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration" rel="nofollow">WPA</a> would put those dollars to productive use. Improvements in infrastructure ultimately mean more productivity which tends to bring prices down.</p>
<p>I think monetary policy is deliberately trying to cause inflation, to try to keep the housing bubble from collapsing entirely as that would put a floor under asset prices in nominal terms. The loss of purchasing power isn’t reflected in the nominal market value of the underlying collateral, which puts a tax payer supported floor under the toxic waste debts.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that paying off debt in an inflationary environment is good policy &#8211; if you have a mortgage for example with interest rates below inflation then you are in a position where you are paying the debt off with dollars that are devaluing faster than the interest charges.</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566017</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566017</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;off to bed now, see all later…loo hoo, catch me on another thread, see you then&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>off to bed now, see all later…loo hoo, catch me on another thread, see you then</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566014</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566014</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;man, I should have edited for grammar before I post that!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>man, I should have edited for grammar before I post that!</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566012</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566012</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this can be done succesfully, if we invest in infrastructure and if we insist on retirement funding, those dollars realize actual product and if played correctly don’t get dumped on the market wholesale since they are going to retirement funds, food, etc, they can be used to “pay down the debt” and get actual assets at the same time, the dollar influence on the market could be  offset into the future&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;unlike the bailouts where the dollars printed affect the market immediately and do cause inflation&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;simce money is always being printed anyway, we can instead of printing new paper to heat up the economy we can use  devices differant devices to get those dollars out of savings and into the market when they’re needed and back into bank accounts when otherwise there are too many greenbacks in the market.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this can be done succesfully, if we invest in infrastructure and if we insist on retirement funding, those dollars realize actual product and if played correctly don’t get dumped on the market wholesale since they are going to retirement funds, food, etc, they can be used to “pay down the debt” and get actual assets at the same time, the dollar influence on the market could be  offset into the future</p>
<p>unlike the bailouts where the dollars printed affect the market immediately and do cause inflation</p>
<p>simce money is always being printed anyway, we can instead of printing new paper to heat up the economy we can use  devices differant devices to get those dollars out of savings and into the market when they’re needed and back into bank accounts when otherwise there are too many greenbacks in the market.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566007</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566007</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My admittedly ignorant understanding is that more dollars would be inflationary, thus requiring US consumers to have more dollars to purchase the same goods just as the consumers’ purchasing power was tanking.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m probably missing something painfully obvioushere, so I’ll look forward to learning…..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m an eco-ignormaus, but when the Treasury puts more dollars into the system and thus devalues the dollar, how does that play out domestically?</p>
<p>My admittedly ignorant understanding is that more dollars would be inflationary, thus requiring US consumers to have more dollars to purchase the same goods just as the consumers’ purchasing power was tanking.</p>
<p>I’m probably missing something painfully obvioushere, so I’ll look forward to learning…..</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566001</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1566001</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have to wonder if the deflation in asset prices is going to be tempered by the devaluation of the dollar - that is that asset prices will drop 10-25% in dollar terms while purchasing power drops 50% or more. In some ways that’s what the Treasury taking on toxic waste CDOs as collateral does - it puts more dollars into the system which devalues the dollar.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to wonder if the deflation in asset prices is going to be tempered by the devaluation of the dollar &#8211; that is that asset prices will drop 10-25% in dollar terms while purchasing power drops 50% or more. In some ways that’s what the Treasury taking on toxic waste CDOs as collateral does &#8211; it puts more dollars into the system which devalues the dollar.</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565974</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565974</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;perris, are you still here?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;still here, not a stable internet connection though, what’s up?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>perris, are you still here?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>still here, not a stable internet connection though, what’s up?</p>
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		<title>By: behindthefall</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565952</link>
		<dc:creator>behindthefall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565952</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Twenty years ago or so, as I watched “roadside commercial zoning” pave over square miles of pasture and grove, I proposed that every new development put enough money in escrow to return it to USDA-approved dairy farms when the businesses tanked.  When I realized that I was driving a couple of miles between stores to shop for items on my shopping list, I also proposed that cars be eliminated from the commercial strips:  park them outside of the commercial area and move people and packages on smallish personal ‘carriages’ pulled around from stop to stop by attaching and detaching from continuously moving cables, available for free.  But no … every store insists on having its own parking area larger than its maximal demand, and you can’t walk and window-shop, except inside dying malls, where there’s not much interesting left.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twenty years ago or so, as I watched “roadside commercial zoning” pave over square miles of pasture and grove, I proposed that every new development put enough money in escrow to return it to USDA-approved dairy farms when the businesses tanked.  When I realized that I was driving a couple of miles between stores to shop for items on my shopping list, I also proposed that cars be eliminated from the commercial strips:  park them outside of the commercial area and move people and packages on smallish personal ‘carriages’ pulled around from stop to stop by attaching and detaching from continuously moving cables, available for free.  But no … every store insists on having its own parking area larger than its maximal demand, and you can’t walk and window-shop, except inside dying malls, where there’s not much interesting left.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565942</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/a-vicious-downward-spiral-or-how-this-economy-is-going-to-play-out-revisited/#comment-1565942</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey Eric, nice to see you at the Lake.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Eric, nice to see you at the Lake.</p>
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