Believe it or not, this Sunday’s NYT features a lengthy story on internet troll culture, with a reporter actually visiting and interviewing two of the more prominent ones over an extended period of time. It’s creepy but fascinating, like the old cliche about turning over a rock to find something squirmy and unspeakable underneath. The subjects of the article take a sociopathic delight in the infliction of misery, hidden under a thin veneer of rationalization.
One of the two primary subjects of the story claims that his exploits are sociological experiments or valuable life lessons (i.e., If you’re an epilepsy foundation, don’t allow flashing images in your user forums), the other is eagerly awaiting an impending "Malthusian crisis" that will kill off two-thirds of the Earth’s population. Others believe they’re simply taking self-important jerks down a peg, or waging darwinistic jihad against their intellectual inferiors.
What’s most instructive, however, is their absolute need for a reaction, or the game simply doesn’t work:
“Lulz” is how trolls keep score. A corruption of “LOL” or “laugh out loud,” “lulz” means the joy of disrupting another’s emotional equilibrium. “Lulz is watching someone lose their mind at their computer 2,000 miles away while you chat with friends and laugh,” said one ex-troll….
Another troll explained the lulz as a quasi-thermodynamic exchange between the sensitive and the cruel: “You look for someone who is full of it, a real blowhard. Then you exploit their insecurities to get an insane amount of drama, laughs and lulz. Rules would be simple: 1. Do whatever it takes to get lulz. 2. Make sure the lulz is widely distributed. This will allow for more lulz to be made. 3. The game is never over until all the lulz have been had.”
(…)
…The willingness of trolling “victims” to be hurt by words, he argued, makes them complicit, and trolling will end as soon as we all get over it.
There you have it. If you react, they win. If you don’t react, don’t get sucked into trying to refute dishonest, absurd or hateful comments, they don’t get their lulz, and they lose. Even if you’re so pissed off and furious that you can’t see straight, as long as you don’t say anything, they still lose.
Fortunately, thanks to the miracle of mods, we Firepups don’t have to worry about trolls too much. But we still see them infrequently here and more frequently elsewhere, and as tempting or satisfying as it may be to give them the back of your hand, nothing is crueler than giving them the back of your head.
(Yes, I just took over 400 words to say "Don’t feed the fucking trolls!" It’s that important.)
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I always wondered what made those nutters tick.
((((Mods !!)))
uh yep, which is why I am proudly sitting here with my 2 year Non Responder pin
I have found non-responding to be generally pretty easy. The really smart ones use a modified honeypot strategy, where they say something so obviously logically flawed that you can’t resist the slamdunk.
Forgetting of course, that they are not bound by logic. Or decency.
Also, I have schooled myself not to respond to taunts since childhood (my parents gave me the excellent advice that if you don’t react, you’re no fun to mess with, and I lived by it, possibly to excess). Not that I don’t slip every once in a while, but I’m pretty good. And even when I do respond, it’s usually without much heat.
Does this mean high school drop outs make believable republicans cuz they can have a beer with the Prez and talk stupid.
Or are those who take the trouble to define events critically using definitions other than vernacular talking down?
Whatever.
will have to read the article – often wondered if the toobz provided these cretins a new forum. most of them are probably chickenshits who would never try it face to face. wonder what their outlet was before McSame made the toobz “flourish”
they even LOOK like trolls
Trolls would seem to be the next generation of GOP voters to bad McCain can’t seem to mobilize them.
The ones featured in the story didn’t seem particularly political – at least not in terms of their trolling. I suspect political trolls are probably a slightly different species because they’re pushing an agenda, but on the other hand it could also be that those same trolls are also posting liberal taunts on conservative blogs because they’re doing it all for the lulz.
Responding to the supposed threats or consequences of the threatener is far superior in some situations. It takes the threat or extortion off of the table (no link to Pelosi intended) and calls the bluff. If there is illegal action charges can be pressed.
Anyone who threatens me will be called out. No bullies allowed. Usually that is enough to stop any stories as well. Unless of course you are dealing with people on their turf instead of your own.
(I *have* seen lots of political trolls who clearly get off on the anthill-poking effect, though)
Aloha, Eli and Ya’ll! ;-)
No argument there. I’m just talking about the garden-variety taunting and bullshit. Actual harassment is a *very* different animal.
Aloha, CTut!
I (and others) were once so seriously trolled that the host of the board had to completely revamp his site. It was that bad. He really cared about the people coming to his site, so I commend him for his efforts. It was a site that was tailored for sensitive people, so it was kind of a target rich environment for trolls.
Love your photo Eli!
How do we deal with trolls in the WH?
A question-what is a concern troll? I have seen the comment “Don’t feed the troll” when it seemed the troll’s crime was to disagree with the group. Suppose someone came on FDL to argue for McCain. Would he be a troll? Would responding to what I see as total error-Obama with all his faults is head and shoulders above McCain-be considered feeding the troll? I would hope not.
After receiving death threats, Fortuny meticulously scrubbed his real address and phone number from the Internet. “Anyone who knows who and where you are is a security hole,” he told me. “I own a gun. I have an escape route. If someone comes, I’m ready.”
Maybe trolls wouldn’t need guns if they didn’t do stuff that would get their ass kicked?
Inbreeding
Out of curiosity (yes, I am that ek hornbeck), just what is the moderation policy on FDL?
I am considering a discussion of the site and I wasn’t aware that there was one at all.
Good point political trolls could be well True Believers or just going for the lulz regardless taking delight in causing misfortune well that is so GOP.
McCain and Obama visit Central Florida bodegas. Comapre and contrast.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.c…..index.html
(P.S. Cindy didn’t look very comfy. Whatsa matter deary? Didn’t they tell ya that ya can’t go by the real temperature, ya gotta know the “feels like” temperature.)
I’m really concerned that you are commenting on a post about trolls. It could cause you major lasting damage.
Concern Trolling: expressing concern about another’s actions when the person (troll) really just wants you to stop what you are doing because it won’t be good for them if you continue.
A concern troll is typically someone who says something like, “I’m as liberal as the next guy, but is it *really* a good idea to be so mean to John McCain? You’re going to make everyone hate Obama if you point out all of McCain’s failings.”
That sort of thing.
I personally do not consider someone a troll simply for having a contrary opinion. I consider them a troll if they are trying to disrupt conversation, arguing in bad faith, or otherwise trying to game or manipulate people. Concern trolls (and purity trolls, who are kind of the exact opposite) are usually the trickiest to identify, because they present as being on your side.
Aren’t trolls just… “sitting at home in his mother’s basement and ranting into the ether between games of dungeons and dragons.” And munching cheetos… can’t forget the cheetos…! ;-)
Cheney is the Major Troll of the GOP.
Everyone is up in arms about zillions of people dying.
So?
gtg. be careful out there!!!
Joe Lieberman is the Major Concern Troll for Bipartisanship. Everyone should just relax and let Grandpa slap them around.
Hey Eli!
When I saw that article this AM all I could do was shake my head and feel sorrow for the obvious lack of humanity in the trolls. I hope for their sakes that karma’s retribution isn’t too troubling.
But somehow I doubt it ‘cuz Karma does exact the appropriate revenge in the end.
are you cynical and wisecracking?
My take home message from the story, probably one that was intended,
is that the toobz are filled with anti-social freaks and surely can’t be where
one would go for extremely well-researched analysis of issues that the
MSM (including the NYT) does a p*ss poor job of covering.
I have trouble feeling all that much empathy for them. But I also have no particular urge to make their lives miserable either.
here’s john mcCian at a mexican restaurant mingling with…. um…. the governor and the R senator and … um… ignoring everyone else. Smoooth.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com…..375467.jpg
The internet is like a cross between the Wild West and an open sewer!
I asked whether trolling hurt people. “I’m not going to sit here and say, ‘Oh, God, please forgive me!’ so someone can feel better,” Fortuny said, his calm voice momentarily rising. The cat lay purring in his lap. “Am I the bad guy? Am I the big horrible person who shattered someone’s life with some information? No! This is life. Welcome to life. Everyone goes through it. I’ve been through horrible stuff, too.”
My Bold It sounds like they were treated bad bullied as kids and now are looking to safely complete the cycle of abuse in a way that they think they won’t get hurt.
They are taking back their lives and power by becoming the things that hurt them.
lol. i know where I’m more comfortable. hint: i don’t know how to ride a horse.
well that’s an interesting image
…with law and semiotics libraries built on top.
That’s probably about right. I wonder what this post might look like if Pach had written it.
I am just like my [Cliffs Notes http://www.cliffsnotes.com/Wil…..-31.html, shallow and one dimensional.
You have black and yellow stripes?
from the safety of their mother’s basements, do you think their cheetos are the puffy kind or the crunchies?
lol
Crunchy, like them…! ;-)
Those too.
I think they make me look tiger-like.
Their personal information — e-mail addresses, satellite images of their home, phone numbers — spread across the Internet. One of the numbers led to a voice-mail greeting with the gleeful words “I did it for the lulz.” Anonymous malefactors made death threats and hurled a brick through the kitchen window.
Being abused seems a factor but these choice of tactics suggest Michelle Malkin and Company were also abused or they are just copying the trolls which came first the troll or the GOP talking head?
And were they all abused is the question?
I’m not particularly empathetic to them either as they appear to be rather unlikable individuals who revel in their unlikeability.
Nevertheless, they are human no matter how much they may try to disavow the notion through their actions.
Too bad for them, I guess is all I’m saying. They do miss a lot.
Hey I like Cheetos I think they watch Joe Scarbrough and eat what he eats he is gaining weight right?
Yeah his take would be good right about now. That and all the Lake’s mental health professionals.
Radio news said Obama is moving away from 16 months withdrawal from Iraq. Any verification?
Trolls had flooded the site’s forums with flashing images and links to animated color fields, leading at least one photosensitive user to claim that she had a seizure.
Ok mean words are one thing but the behavior seems to be escalating to actual harm, just like the Right Wingers rants did in that church shooting.
No, all I heard was that he was open to a compromise on offshore drilling…
Moving away toward what?
Yeah, even the second and more overtly malevolent troll thought that was beyond the pale.
I haven’t heard about Obama moving away from it, but, Maliki is…
oooh am just now re-reading John Dean’s Conservatives Without Conscience – he references this fellow’s work extensively throughout the book – his body of work quantifies Authoritarianism – eyeopening
trust him, Malkin and others of her ilk never had to suffer bullying or abuse of any kind to turn out the way they have – they’re defective.
Eli,
Thanks for this. I’m assistant moderator of another list with hundreds of readers, and we have had our share of trolls. What you write about them is right on. What they crave more than anything is *attention.* What they hate more than anything is to be ignored. Add these together, and you get a third corollary: You can NEVER get the last word when debating a troll, no matter what you say.
Trolls are one reason why any decent list must be moderated. Moderators must know how to spot troll behavior, and must be free to spike trolleries. Fortunately, trolls usually repeat themselves and otherwise violate list protocols, making it easy for moderators to deal with them.
Bob in HI
KO just reported, “He said there should be some offshore drilling.” *sigh” SOmebody remind me about the supreme court now, please?
There were a couple bloggers I knew whose blogs were roughly the same as mine in terms of traffic. Every time they got a troll, they would engage and debate them. Every time (well, almost every time) I got a troll, I would ignore them.
Their trolls kept coming back for more, but I have never had a “regular” troll, ever.
100 years, he’s already said he’s leaving terror strike force and training troops?
Now KO is saying that BO is sort of supporting drilling off the coast….”I don’t want to be so rigid that we don’t get something done….
What the hell is going on??? Oh yeah, I know….
Oy vey.
I give up.
I’m gonna move…no, I’m gonna vote for Nader, no, I’m gonna vote for Bob Barr…no, I’m writing in Kucinich. That’s the ticket. Kucinich.
the concern trolls and the purity trolls are very hard to detect.
the political trolls we tend to get are pretty easy to spot with their comemnts – intended to incite an immediate and inflammatory response.
the mod squad at the lake has a well deserved reputation of being the best in the tubes. i am honored to be one.
Of course you’re da bestest…! Aloha, Suz! ;-)
Suzanne is the very best…evah…
there are trolls and then there are lunatics –
were any of you here the first time David Neiwert guested ?!?!? right around the time a certain foul mouthed femblogger got Poor Virgin Ben fired and his Klansmen lovin’ homies showed up ??? the repulsion levels were off the hook
although a similar infestation occasioned one of my all time favorite FDL quotes
Rayne – “Jane, Get The Trexinator downstairs – STAT ! . . .the Big One !”
there was a deal in the House, and the Repubs took ANWR off the table, that help any?
“I want everyone off the Internet. Bloggers are filth. They need to be destroyed. Blogging gives the illusion of participation to a bunch of retards. . . . We need to put these people in the oven!”
I listened for a few more minutes as Weev held forth on the Federal Reserve and about Jews
Sounds like even the dream of a Participatory democracy is too much for them Hope is too much for them, People need to get over/use to it? Jews as scapegoats?
Sounds like a Ron Paul voter and Michelle Malkin listener.
Participatory democracy is a process emphasizing the broad participation (decision making) of constituents in the direction and operation of political systems. While etymological roots imply that any democracy would rely on the participation of its citizens (the Greek demos and kratos combine to suggest that “the people rule”), traditional representative democracies tend to limit citizen participation to voting, leaving actual governance to politicians.
Participatory democracy strives to create opportunities for all members of a political group to make meaningful contributions to decision-making, and seeks to broaden the range of people who have access to such opportunities. Because so much information must be gathered for the overall decision-making process to succeed, technology may provide important forces leading to the type of empowerment needed for participatory models, especially those technological tools that enable community narratives and correspond to the accretion of knowledge.
Some scholars argue for refocusing the term ‘participatory democracy’ on community-based activity within the domain of civil society, based on the belief that a strong non-governmental public sphere is a precondition for the emergence of a strong liberal democracy.[1] These scholars tend to stress the value of separation between the realm of civil society and the formal political realm.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P….._democracy
we (the commenters) are lucky to have you all.
oh yeah, they don’t trifle with Officer (((Suzanne)))
smooth as silk
she’s no babe in the woods, even tho she’s a babe in the woods
more info please? for the cableless?
Fixed…!
I love Suzanne’s musical taste…always on the money…
If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are poised to take it over, permanently, I think you can still get a lot from this book. The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Seems like a good read still if Michelle and company were not abused then what is there excuse were they born and or raised defective?
i’m off to dinner with a friend. so ya’ll can stop saying nice things now
link
sad to say, I found it by googling “Obama flip-flops on Offshore Drilling”
Thank doG for Republicans. /s
*whew* It was getting rather cloying…! 8-P
That’s the only quote KO had. Obama is for a little offshore drilling now.
I wonder if Nazi guards had debates like that about torture?
They probably did after all the Bush WH is still discussing water boarding.
Like…where else are ya gonna get to hear Robben Ford…I mean really..Suzanne knows her stuff.
Or possibly something like this:
cbl2 and ES – thanks for the info (i think) :(
hopefully I’m not misrepresenting his work – but basically they’re born defective, lacking that ol empathy gene
and followers are what we dfh’s have been saying all along – these are folks seeking a well defined, black and white, regulated world – and sadly will follow anyone willing to define it for them
Altmeyer has been peer reviewed forevah – his stuff holds up and it’s lay person friendly.
what bugs me is the asskissing of the Repubs all the time.
In reality, if we’re going to use more than our fair share of the world’s oil, we should pay the eco price for it; rather than passing that buck off to other, usu 3rd world, countries. But I just resent that we let the Repubs pull the strings, call the tune, .
Yep, that’s how I read it, too. Sorry little boys who didn’t get their’s and now can find a way (safely) to fight back. I’d be curious to see the ration of male/female trolls of this ilk. Sorry little bunch. And, one of ‘em sounded like a budding terrarist!
I’ll look for it at the book store.
that was supposed to end with –enter next cliche here–
Maybe cb12 has some information on that. Gotta go folks.
Ummm….isn’t the President and the ex-President calling in to a reich wing talk show sort of…ummm…obvious and maybe illegal, because they are promoting and rewarding…reich wing lies…sort of illegal….Isn’t it illegal to use propaganda during a time of war???? Isn’t that illegal????
Real good video I’m sure Darth and Bush have had that talk Darth would be proskull lets get rid of the flag gotta go for real now bye.
I read this too fast as “oil empathy gene”
It’s Friday night.
I could use some ass-kissing right about now.
Hmmmm?
I’m waiting.
Oh…so now Obama is too skinny…wtf is that? I ain’t goin’ there…what now??? Code…code..code…
¿dónde está tu marido?
Republicans don’t do illegal things s/
Yeah, physical fitness really hurt Dubya’s election prospects, eh?
One can’t be too skinny or too rich or too presumptuous.
I’ll let you know….ha.
Where is my what?
Yay! More Eli!
Thanks for all you do, Suz!
Hey, you dipped into the Lake without much of a splash tonight! Must have been a good dive…
Bob in HI
Group Mojito…it’s Friday night!!!
http://www.miamism.com/m/blogs…..mojito.jpg
Good thing I got out of work early…
your husband ;)
Ohhhhh…..we pulled into the driveway at the same time, so he’s here.
Actually, I’m pretty happy tonight. I save the K-A’ssing for some time when I want something. :)
A little more to the left.
*smack*
There. Feel better now?
(*g*)
Bob in HI
*Ooops* (ducking into closet)
Bob in HI
Yay, SUZANNE!!
You are so clever!
Anthropologist Edward T. Hall specializes in unconscious aspects of culture. The chapter “Action Chains” in Beyond Culture discusses culturally determined chains of behavior and expected response, and how the expected response is necessary for eliciting the next action in the chain.
An example of a simple action chain is calling someone on the phone and expecting to hear “hello?” from the other end before you speak. All it takes to disrupt it is being met with nothing but apparently dead air, when the other end has obviously picked up. Other kinds of action chains can be far more complex.
Hall’s work is really interesting. The Silent Language is about body language, The Hidden Dimension is about the ways cultures use space, including personal space around one’s body dictating different distances for different kinds of interactions, and how architectural space is used to convey things like meaning and status in a culture.
His autobiography, An Anthropology of Everyday Life, is excellent, detailing how his encounters with a variety of cultures growing up led him to this field of study.
Eli,
Since trolls are liars and manipulators, why would you think that these particular trolls were telling you the truth? What makes you think that they don’t go crawling off with their tails between their legs, crying for their mommies when some really astute and up to speed snark master gives them the back of his or her hand?
I’m pretty skeptical of everything they claimed about themselves, but I think they’re telling the truth that any reaction to their comments constitutes a win.
In my experience you either:
a) ignore them completely, or;
b) mock them relentlessly.
the goal of (b) btw, is to get the pack of trolls to turn on their own or at the very least to count your own lulz. But if you do (b) you must know that you have iron control and will not allow yourself to ever lose amused contemptuous detatchment.
I noticed that paragraph too. He does stuff that results in other people being threatened, and that’s fine with him, but when someone does it to him, it’s a different story.
Yup, he’s a troll.
(Oh, and his beanball analogy sucks rocks. He clearly never heard of Conigliaro. Or Darrell Stingley, in football.)
I got attacked by a troll recently (on another site) for saying something negative about the late Andrea Dworkin, comparing her appearance and sex-phobia (her belief was that all hetorosexual coitus =”rape”) to Kathryn J. Lopez of Nat’l. Review online. It’s easy to offend someone with what one would assume is a relatively straightforward, noncontroversial statement.
The taunts were so childish that after a moment of dismay all I could do was laugh. Why let someone else’s psychosis bother you, esp. when you’ll never interact w/ that person in any way in the real world?