Awesome Ian, thank you for that point. True patriot, Greg McKendry

there is no courage among these neo fascists, they are sfcared little men with little am syndrome and all they understand is their pack mentality

“many many other people were being killed, raped, tortured, battered or just being crippled or dying in accidents.”

But as Mr. McKendry showed us, there are also many acts of heroism, large and small, every day as well.

Or, at least, I like to think there are.

Thank you Ian.

I was thinking about that too, Ian. He was a truly brave man.

Ian, I’m doing some revisions to the official story. Want to help? The Knoxville Terrorist Shooting & the Liberal Media

We are the constant brunt of Garrison Keeler’s jokes because we are so liberal. Few think of us as being religious or at least they like to argue that we aren’t. But in my almost 20 years of ministry I have rarely come across better people. When it comes to peace and justice work I will stand with and among them every time.

Ian,

When I read that yesterday, the tears welled and then fell.

More courage there than in a boatload of fascists enticing other people’s children to fight their bogus wars for them. It is men like this that make America great and men like Bush and Cheney that tear it down.

We would do well to honor Greg McKendry’s memory.

Hey Deb. Been thinking about you the last few days.

Ah, but Cheney, Bush, et al. would call this man ‘a sap’. They would never sacrifice themselves; they’ve never sacrificed or given anything for anyone else. In their minds, Greg Mckendry might be someone who could be used by them (a la Jessica Lynch or Pat Tillman), but would never be someone they would emulate.

Another UU who gave his life. This goes back quite a while but many here probably remember Dr. John Britton who was killed in Pensacola in the parking lot of his clinic. James Barrett also died but he was “just” an escort.

Can we sign a virtual card for his family? Ian, I wonder if there is a way for you to email this thread to his family? Or maybe RevDeb knows a way to send it to the church?

Greg McKendry is a hero. As a teacher, I often wonder if there were a school terrorist on my campus, would I be brave enough to behave as Greg did.

i wish the mmm (multi-millionaire media) would drive home the point that the nut w/the shotgun was a reader of hannity, et. al., and that the liberals in the church disarmed the nut w/out any guns. plus this story about the brave mr. mckendry.

We’re doing a vigil on Thursday night. Haven’t yet been able to face it and pull it together. But I will.

As a former member of the UU Youth Group (then LRY, later YRUU), I can also attest to the beauty and grace of the Unitarians I have known. I’m not currently in a church, but if I were to look for one, UU would be my first choice. I can think of dozens of people I met in that group who I believe would have done as Greg McKendry did in that situation.

Let’s hope that great good comes from this great tragedy. Let’s hope the Michael Savages and Michelle Malkins and Melanie Morgans of the world get shamed into silence.

ps you got a link for this info, ian?

((((RevDeb & congregation))))

There’s a blog site where people can leave messages here.

Specifically for the family I have no further knowledge but my guess is that it will get to them.

Anybody familiar with a good source on the history of Unitarianism? I bought one once but it was a disappointment.

hugs from me too!

I’ve been thinking about how this story has basically disappeared from the national media…not the fact that there was a church shooting spree – that happens too often in America, in churches, workplaces, schools and shopping malls – but that the reason the killer gave was that the congregation was too liberal.

Can you seriously imagine the uproar that would be ginned up 24/7 for a month on Fox, Drudge, hate radio, hell the GOP convention, if a gunman had went into a Southern Baptist church and started opening fire and said it was because they were too right-wing.

But, nah, our side just let’s this aspect of it go.

Sure, we’re more honorable – and I really believe we are – but our unwillingness to play this game also means we have a hard time winning the battle against the right-wingers and their media cronies.

On Hardball tonight, sub host Mike Barnicle (the only man who makes me miss Chris Matthews) did a snarky little segment about how Scott McClellan’s claim a few days ago that the Bush White House regularly fed talking points to Fox News was just outrageous. He just couldn’t see Bill and Sean (he actually used their first names) using talking points.

Ugh, what is wrong with these people? And why is Barnicle a regular on NBC, anyway? He was fired for plagiarism. Wasn’t that once THE cardinal sin for journalists?

I have a friend who used to drive 120 miles each way to a UU church. Then she moved so she could be near one.
Speaks very highly of the church and the sense of community she felt there.

Thanks Ian.

Oops. Bad blogger.

http://ap.google.com/article/A…..AD926QJFO0

“The slain man was identified as Greg McKendry, 60, a longtime church member and usher. Church member Barbara Kemper told The Associated Press that McKendry “stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us.”"

Well the trouble was that Scottie appeared on the Billo radio show and took it all back- so what the hell is one to conclude?

Thanks Ian. Been thinking much the same thing. We have allowed ourselves to be convinced that heroism is something other than it is. Sacrifice for the sake of others. Pure, undeniable, irrefutable. What a guy. One can only hope that if faced with a similar situation the personal strength of character is strong enough.

Hi TexBetsy.

Mr.Cbl

I started going to the Unitarian Church about a year ago here in Los Angeles. My first visit shocked me: They were talking about issues the way I had always imagined Jesus would talk about issues (i.e., ICE raids, war, personal vs. group responsibility). Now, when I hear some people talking from a religious humanist perspective, I guess whether they are a UU or not.

If you want to have some fun in reviewing your religious convictions (or lack thereof), go to Belief-O-Matic. For me it was pretty good: I put in my beleifs and it came back Unitarian. I put in the beliefs I had at 10, and it said Mormon (which is true). So take a gamble on your elternal salvation…

The question I asked was how the story would be different if the “gunman” had been dark skinned or middle eastern. A repiglican friend of mine commented “Well, obviously, the story would either have been suppressed outright out of respect for groups like CAIR or it would have been given a slant about mental illness or his inability to fully assimilate in American society. That’s what usually happened when olive-skinned people with names like Ahmed run around killing people.”

The seminal work is by Earl Morse Wilbur—a 2 volume set. A History of Unitarianism volume 1 and volume 2 It’s long out of print and hard to get. But if you have a UU minister around or can find it in a church library or seminary library . . . It really is the best resource.

No, but I have been reading a little bit about how it attracted reform Jews when it first began.

Thank you for this post, Ian.

Greg McKendry performed “above and beyond the call of duty.” Had this horrific incident taken place on a different type of battlefield there’s a good possibility he would have been recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honour. He willingly sacrificed the most precious thing on earth, his life, that others would not perish.

The world is full of phony heroes. Greg McKendry is the real deal.

That was part of the tragedy as well. That you are on the side of peace and social justice…feed the poor, free the prisoners, human dignity. The tragedy of rage and demonizing other people. My condolence and prayers for you and all those of the congregation.

That is dedication, and speaks volumes about the community.

Uh no. Mike Barnicle awas fired for racism. Blatant, unrepentant racism.

As the neo-fascists have already explained Unitarians don’t count because they’re “not Christians.” Michelle Malkin is therefore only too delighted by Greg McKendry’s death.

In 2004, Garrison Keillor made appearances at dozens and dozens of grassroots Democratic fundraising events all over the state. He drove himself there and back, came early, stayed late, chatted with the folks. He did not charge a farthing for his time and donated generously to each candidate. He has subjected himself to scathing criticism for his strongly liberal writings. He’s one of us. Really. And he makes as much fun of Lutherans and Catholics as of UUs. Personally, I suspect UU is where I belong, to the extent I belong anywhere. (Well, that sounded immensely whiny, didn’t it? Sorry!)

The world is full of phony heroes. Greg McKendry is the real deal.

amen to that!

Thanks so much. Sad to read (some of) the comments.

still does. I have quite a few people in the congregation who come from a Jewish background—as you know do I. But fully 1/3 of the congregation are former Catholics. The largest from any one tradition. That’s just in my church.

The world is full of phony heroes. Greg McKendry is the real deal.

Amen.

The world is full of phony heroes. Greg McKendry is the real deal.

Say it, brother, and amen!!

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13).

Thanks!

here’s your coke!

We hear about fake hero’s every day, but this man who willingly gave his life to save children and congregants gets crickets from the media. If they weren’t all psychotic they’d be feeling guilty as hell.

I have been a Unitarian since 1969 when I was in high school. I can’t speak for all UU’s, but one thing I will predict is that there will be no calling for the Death Penalty by any Unitarian folks. UU’s love people too much to believe in Capital Punishment. Isn’t it ironic that this killer will be tried for his crime without the drumbeat of sending him to his death?

RwCole. The Unitarian Universalist Association has a publishing arm called Beacon Press in Boston, MA. You would be able to find UU history through their publications.

Just found used copies at Amazon for $60 and ordered them. Thanks again for your help.

I had no idea Beacon Press was UU. Cool! Thanks.

diet please :)

Thanks- I’ll check it out after I digest what I just ordered.

That he was threatened?

Bush is feeling back in the game since he approved the execution of Ronald A. Gray yesterday.

I posted this link on the website RevDeb gave us. In moderation.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13).

Not religious but this is what I thought when I read about Greg McKendry’s action in the post.

No- that he had sent talking points to Billo

But the Wilbur is still the best and neither Beacon nor the UUA has taken it upon themselves to reprint it.

A lighter UU history is by David Robinson., The Unitarians and the Universalists. The biggest fault with Wilbur is that there’s nothing about the Universalists. Ernie Cassara has written several about the Universalists.

Haven’t read the entire thread, so forgive me if it’s already been said, but I posted yesterday that the UUA has a web space up for people to post messages.

There also is a page of Supporting our Friends in Knoxville.

thx, ian!

I’ve been a UU all my life. I just didn’t know until about 15 years ago that we were “organized.”

for the link, i mean!

You can also get quite a bit of info from the website at uua.org.

Ian, as is often the case with your posts, you have gone straight to the heart, the human heart, of the matter.

And as Southern Dragon makes clear, Greg McKendry has provided us a measure (indeed, the last, full, measure) of what truly constitutes genuine heroism.

This is an era of blatant cowardice and photo-op heroics.

We owe Greg McKendry and his family the full measure of our respect and also our most sincere appreciation.

Those of us privileged to undertand might, each year, choose to remember his courage and thereby celebrate his love and his humanity. He stod for all of us and all that we cherish.

His last thoughts, clearly, were not of himself or for himself. He did what he did without a thought as to what was in it for him.

Certainly the MSM will not celebrate this man’s courage or conviction, do you suppose any politician will?

David’s upstairs
Sheriff Joe’s Desert Disaster: What Happens When Nativists Get Their Way

Sometimes I think the that one of the most controversial things that another human being can say to start an argument…is that peace is possible if you are willing to sacrifice. Imagine what would happen if we were more willing to die for peace than we were to die to change something or someone else. I think that fear, hate, and violence are so interwoven and such an important foundational component of the neo con movement because at it’s very base is the need for control. Certainly we would have more peace if violence stopped being effective in controlling others. And there would be no message more frightening to the neo con movement than the dfh and his peace movement. Because “peace” is a code word for “refuse to let you control my behavior with fear”.

We have seen it in the big picture and small. We can blame them or we can decide that the only big picture solution is to make a choice to stop using fear (power and control) and to stop being influenced by it.

This man, made his choice today and I hope he felt “peace” in his heart as he died.

I believe he did because he refused to let fear control him.

The power behind violence is that our fear of death enslaves us to it’s power. Jesus when taken literally gave us an example of true “freedom”. His suffering was not “controlled” externally. He refused to allow it. His example does have the potential to set us free.

This man, is one more example of making that choice. The choice to behave as if there is a bigger, more important picture that the one our fear creates for us. A selfish tunnel vision that allows us to be controlled by others. It works. And it will only stop working when we are ready to make the ultimate sacrifice so that it stops working.

That’s what I mean. Did he change his tune because he’d been threatened?

Any politician who jumped in at this point to do something like that would be perceived (perhaps rightly) as grandstanding. It’s a tough call unless there was someone in the public light who actually knew him or had a relationship with the church. At least that’s my sense of it. YMMV.

This is truly a horriffic situation that the congregation will be dealing with for the foreseeable future. The trauma of violence is a horrid thing, but to have it happen in a house of worship—a sanctuary— is just beyond what the brain can deal with. I so feel for those people, all of them.

Took a long time (dial-up) but that “test” was vastly interesting; I come back as 100% neo-pagan and 98% UU.

Fun test. Interesting results.

Secular Humanism (100%)
Unitarian Universalism (97%)
Liberal Quakers (89%)
Neo-Pagan (85%)
Theravada Buddhism (69%)
Taoism (68%)
Mahayana Buddhism (57%)

I was also 100% Neo-pagan, with a 97% New Age, and 96% UU.

Last for me was Jehovah’s Witness @ 11%

Thank you for this thread, Ian. I know I’m way late, but that gave me the opportunity to read leisurely and reflect. And thank you to this FDL family for the warmth of this community.

Greg McKendry is a Profile in Courage. One hopes he’ll be named such.

These tests can be fun. My results:

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers (76%)
4. Nontheist (72%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (65%)
6. Neo-Pagan (64%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (62%)

My Jehovah Witness score came in at 6%. Can’t think what I agreed with them on.

They are fun tests — and they pegged me:

1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers (87%)
4. Secular Humanism (81%)
5. Jainism (79%)
6. Mahayana Buddhism (79%)
7. New Age (79%)
8. Sikhism (73%)
9. Hinduism (71%)
10. Reform Judaism (70%)
11. Bah�’� Faith (69%)

I scored 17% Jehovah’s Witness — maybe it’s cause I like to walk around the neighborhood.

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (95%)
3. Liberal Quakers (91%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (82%)
5. Neo-Pagan (80%)

…..

23. Islam (24%)
24. Orthodox Judaism (24%)
25. Jehovah’s Witness (19%)
26. Eastern Orthodox (19%)
27. Roman Catholic (19%)

I understand your perspective.

Yet McKendry deserves to be recognized and appreciated, and while it IS difficult to conceive of a politician who would have sufficient class and courage to do justice to McKendry’s selfless act, it would not hurt for them to sincerely try, quietly, and with dignity to NOT behave as if the moment were about themselves.

A dose of humility and human appreciation might be of use to all politicians.

But mostly, I made the comment because I suspect very few polticians could actually ‘get’ the example which McKendry has provided us, understanding its implications and honestly examing the circumstances and those ‘personalities’ which and who may have contributed to this devastating assault upon society, conscience and truth.

I realize you are on the ‘front line’, as it were, RevDeb and I can only say how much I appreciate all that you clearly do, on a daily basis, to make the realization of a better world not only possible but probable.

David

did you click that you like white shirts or bicycles? maybe that was it.

you like to ring doorbells?

100% neo pagan
98% Mahayana Buddhist
95% UU
92% Therevada

was a bit suprised by the neo-pagan, but not by the buddhism or UU

this is funny

1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (94%)
3. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
4. Secular Humanism (86%)
5. New Age (85%)
6. Mahayana Buddhism (84%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (82%)
8. Theravada Buddhism (82%)
9. Taoism (71%)
10. Reform Judaism (71%)
11. Orthodox Quaker (65%)
12. Jainism (64%)
13. Sikhism (61%)
14. Scientology (60%)
15. New Thought (55%)
16. Bahá’í Faith (52%)
17. Hinduism (48%)
18. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (48%)
19. Nontheist (38%)
20. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (37%)
21. Seventh Day Adventist (30%)
22. Jehovah’s Witness (27%)
23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (27%)
24. Islam (24%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (24%)
26. Eastern Orthodox (15%)
27. Roman Catholic (15%)

I’ve been a UU for nearly twenty years, but I’ve never been as proud to be a UU as I am to share a faith with people like Mr. McKendry. I have held for some time now that progressivism is a philosophy of courage, while conservatism is a philosophy of fear: beliefs that the weekend’s tragic shootings have only reinforced.

It is at times like these that we are all called upon to respond with courage.

Many people have commented on the fact that Right Wing books by Limbaugh and Hannity were found in the shooter’s home. Much more distressing than that fact is that those books are considered “mainstream.” Twenty years ago when a crazed shooter went on a rampage, one found mimeographed tracts by extremist authors – nowadays the same philosophies receive ISBN numbers and book tours.

A very thoughtful comment. Thank you.

There were three other people who ran towards Adkisson, too, and tackled him. That’s impressive. BTW, the headline on the local newspaper is now about services offered for the victims of the shooting in all the other churches in town–churches which probably would not have had good words for the UU church previously.

First and foremost…My Condolences to the Families of all those involved in this most tragic incident. Thank You for reminding us what Life is truly about. Another sad day for America, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave……Peace to ALL.

I admire the heroism of all of those folks.

Let us not forget to take every opportunity to remind others that they stopped the gunman without needing firearms in order to do so and, probably because it didn’t take firearms, we have a live gunman who can undergo due process, from which we may eventually better understand what drove him to kill.