Keith?

woohoo! yeah spencer – yeah KO

evening Es how ya doing??

Got to love KO taking on the Attackerman approach!

Fine, thank you! I was hoping you might sing for us tonight, nahant. *g*

Aloha, ES!

Gallop Poll Obama leading… oh wait McCain leading?WTF
Two Gallup Polls, One Day: McCain And Obama Both Ahead?

Great polling!!

Hello………..

Digg!

dugg – thanks for opening it neuro

Dugg!
Evening, Eureka!

Time for some Music

Yay Spencer!

only took ya six min good for you Neuro you are getting faster!!

accuracy counts more than speed :)

And still keeping Time

see your stones and raise ya beatles

True Revolution starts in da Islands mon !

Elvis Costello – Alison

alison – oh atlanta

Marley! That reminds me of something, Petro! hmmm… What could it be…?

the revolution starts now

my freaking computer goes slow on me most nites ’round midnight, just when I’m trying to submit the Digg for LLN

likely story, huh?

Pick up the pace at the shack!

I got one of those rightwing emails from one of my ex’s gals out in AZ…..forwarded from “CPT Jeffrey S Porter” saying that Obama ignored the soldiers who were lined up to shake his hand in Germany and went on to do his basketball photo-op. Nasty piece of work. I tried to forward it to Obama site to deal with. No luck. That’s what’s on my mind tonight. Tired, so tired. Will any Dem stand up?

that and a dime won’t get you a cup of coffee!

Since Harry Reid is bending over for BushCo, will Conyers & Waxman tag team to bring down the House of Corruption Regent Bush ? Conyers mulls perjury charges … from rawstory

tin roof – rusted!

… as if I need any more incentive to get published … *g*

How ya doin’, CT ?

And then LIVE from Boston

Daym

Hey petro – mulling is what democrats do before they fade away and vote with Chimpy.
Throw somebody in fuckin’ jail and I’ll retract that.

mulls? seven and a half years of thievery and thuggery, a D majority in both houses, and the best Conyers can do is mull?

its pathetic

Snopes is on it. Soldier recants.

Go ahead Keith, say it. Shut the Fuck Up GWB. I certainly won’t arrest you, nor will I throw you off the air. Were MSNBC to act against you, you would be cascaded with offers, many to superior venues. Once again, Go For It Keith.

40 acres and a mull, that’s all we will get out of this Congress

Yep. And now that soldier has drawn his family into it.

a most excellent debunking es

And just cuz…

((( newt )))

My sentiments exactly … as surprising as it was to see American democracy get undermined, that astonishing it is to see Congress’s complicity in these crimes …

Thanks, ES. I forgot about snopes. I’ll be responding to my ‘friend’ in AZ. I come to the Lake for truth — thanks for it!

OH Suz :>)

welcome to the lake fathoms. if ya have any quesions, just ask – the pups are friendly

Of course there is always the end

I’m pretty certain that Conyers isn’t in the bag, but either his power is diminished now that Democrats have the upper hand (WTF???), or he’s tired.

You are welcome.. and good to see you back, dwr.

one of the best songs ever used in a movie….

How many??? Fathoms that is… welcomed to the lake be sure and get wet!

Good on you. Punaise must be laughing.

Welcome!
Hey, do we still dunk the new folks?

Don’t get burn’t

Love that movie… the movie guy here has all the versiuons with the directors cut… one of his favs also…

SOmetimes I think Conyers is just getting to old to fight.. Bless his heart.. but we need fighters in the worst way.

burn one down?

I don’t know how his position as chair of HJC would suffer if he defied the speaker, but at this stage in his career, I’d like to see him roll the dice.

This is a pretty interesting snip from an email Democrats.com sent out tonight in re impeachment.. As a follow up on last weeks hearings and what to do etc.

So what stands in the way of real impeachment hearings?

1. 228 Democrats (and 199 Republicans) who have not co-sponsored Articles of Impeachment against George Bush. Tell your Representatives to co-sponsor Rep. Kucinich’s 35 Articles of Impeachment:
http://democrats.com/35-articles-of-impeachment

2. Key Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee who do not support impeachment.

a. Impeachment Hamlets: Bobby Scott, Zoe Lofgren, and Jerry Nadler believe Bush committed impeachable offfenses, but they are terrified to support impeachment. Call them to find out why they can’t make up their minds:
http://www.causecaller.com/wik…..nt_Hamlets

b. AWOL Democrats: These members showed their contempt for the Constitution (and their constituents) by not even attending the July 25 hearing: Howard Berman, Rick Boucher, Artur Davis, Bill Delahunt, Luis Gutierrez, Linda Sanchez, Betty Sutton, Maxine Waters, Anthony Weiner. Call them to find out why they failed to do their jobs – and when they will support impeachment:
http://www.causecaller.com/wik…..hment_AWOL

c. Impeachment opponents: Adam Schiff, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Mel Watt believe none of Bush’s High Crimes are impeachable. Call them to find out why they have betrayed their Oath of Office:
http://www.causecaller.com/wik….._Opponents

3. House Democratic “Leaders” who oppose impeachment: Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, Caucus Chair Rahm Emanuel, Whip Jim Clyburn, and DCCC chair Chris Van Hollen believe impeachment would hurt Democrats in November. Call them to say serious impeachment hearings will expose Republican High Crimes and help Democrats at all levels:
http://www.causecaller.com/wik…..peach_Bush

4. The Corporate Media

Despite six hours of in-depth hearings, there was no substantive coverage in any Corporate Media outlet. Call your favorite TV/radio talk shows and write to your favorite newspaper to demand coverage of impeachment.

On Tuesday at 10 pm ET / 7 pm PT, Air America’s Richard Greene will discuss impeachment with Dennis Kucinich. Guests also include Mimi Kennedy and Tim Carpenter of Progressive Democrats of America. Listen online:
http://airamerica.com/listen

When the Sun refused to shine and get outs Iraq

same here…

I got that one also ES… I just hope they do Impeach them all not just BUSH!

And I think Democrats.com borrowed an idea of mine off of our last FDL name the PAC thread.

They started using Aggressive Progressives in emails just a few days later.

Great roundup!
Pardon me, North Carlolinians, but is Mel Watt the weakest critter ever from the hearing last week? Wow, he was just plain lame.

Oh pAlease

Man, at this point I just want to see them impeach a janitor to get the damn impeachment juices flowing properly. /s

pro*ac made me stay

This is what we need

*smacks head*
yeah, what was I thinking…

Talk about clueless, Mel.. and I don’t think he would care if Cheney shot him in the face.

I was furious, watching him masquerade as a legislator. But truly, he’s just an emblem.

yeah just so we don’t wait A Million Years…I just can’t wait that long….

I don’t know.. he’s a part of the problem if he doesn’t sign on at this point. I mean, come on!

Conyers must know that there are millions willing to stand with him … seems like they just want to play nice until the election is over … truly sickening !

For Mel, there is no hope. That cowardly spectacle was/is the end. He told the Congress and the country that “I’ll be there for whatever, but don’t count on me for, you know, leadership.”

By coincidence, DWR1 I was reading this on snopes earlier tonight about that Porter guy

It is like the popularity of Democrats in November 2006 never happened.
Poof!

And why wasn’t Maxine at the hearing last week? That’s just not right.

More Bushco indictments

Oh, and Jimmie Speeris, Aisle of View

And I see someone else pointed out the snopes.

Hey Mommybrain!

It’s like the only thing they remember to do is to submit …

Finally!!

Oh … oh, you said mull … Never mind8]

Man Oh man the YouTubes is being destroyed… several of my songs on my play lists are no longer available due to legal issues…shit @#@$%@#$&*(%^$

Hey newton! How’s it?

Besides needing a Val*um from getting worked up over the Gummint, splendid!
You?

One of MY fav Stones tunes . . . really a great one.
Thanks!

Andrew McCain heads for the hills!o! resigns from bank boards for personal reasons.

As many sound banks as there actually are in this country, even today, you’d think it unlikely that so many politicians relatives have been associated with the other kind, wouldn’t you?

Yeah, but did you see what his stock is worth? Punked!
*evil grin, rubs hands together menacingly*

My all TIME favorite stones recording… and the words ring true… so enjoy while you can..

I have a quibble with that, Maxine Waters did ask questions at the hearing!

So Live for Today

I missed her, too.
6 hours is a bit long for me, so I bailed at a crucial moment I guess.

Splendid, thanks. Niece on last two days of visit, we are shopping and doing girly things that Sprout doesn’t care to. Having fun.

hey larue – sorry you won’t be able to come down sunday

This is What We NEEDfrom the bushco admin

Keating Five, it’s in the genes.

Dadnabbit, are you having another meetup at the Cottage ?

I guess we can count on newt for great videos of the picnic …

… ducks and runs …

…we are shopping and doing girly things…

Glad I asked…
Hey, sprout – I’m with you!

I watched bits and pieces of so many hearings last week I couldn’t be sure, but the email said the following (from my copy/paste above).

b. AWOL Democrats: These members showed their contempt for the Constitution (and their constituents) by not even attending the July 25 hearing: Howard Berman, Rick Boucher, Artur Davis, Bill Delahunt, Luis Gutierrez, Linda Sanchez, Betty Sutton, Maxine Waters, Anthony Weiner. Call them to find out why they failed to do their jobs – and when they will support impeachment:
http://www.causecaller.com/wik…..hment_AWOL

I do my best work when I’m not paying attention.

ROFL

its a help pack the pod party this sunday afternoon

anyone who wants to attend can email me or get ahold of me via f/b

Hey Newt how did that Laptop deal work out??
Oh and Julie says that my hot chili needs to burn

WHat is a pod?

Great idea … many of us will be there in spirit !

summer in the city

The thing you escape in!! Right Suz???

CSNY

It’s all good – once it was in front of the client, it was like a duck to water. My part is finished, thankfully.
Damned nice machine, though.

I only know ONE other person who even KNOWS who Tuck And Patti are! *G*

They were rightous on the Peninsula, in small bars and lounges, back in a day, and I got to see them.
Also at a few fests . . .

http://www.tuckandpatti.com/faq1.html#ss

Wierd scenes, indeed! *G*

Well is it the Dell??

POD

eureka asked it–what’s on my mind? ten kazillion things…really is one of those rare times when emotions and intellect get to meet. in a massive load that i won’t be able to digest until winter. that’s why i’m not moving to texas with my friends, do you have a ‘digest during winter’ time period?

songs i have been obsessively playing-mary gauthier (go-shay) with marty stuart everyone should hear this song once in their lives, bite the bullet.

the best version is a katrina montage on you tube-she is from louisiana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

and my #2 favorite band of all time–explore pousette-dart band on you tube, good links from this one video, any song is different from the other one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

and did you know the ap news does a youtube wrap-up of the week’s photos?

no, me neither……..i’ll be watching it though, seems it’s supposed to be ‘art’ instead of news……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..eature=dir

ok, way past my bedtime, doc said, what bedtime?.

thanks for your bullhorn eureka…..

Yeah, I saw that and wondered if it could be a typo. Or, if there’s something buried in those bank transactions that’s more understandable, as it were, e.g. some related lending. There so many ways you can go once you get control of the bank. One reason we see so few cases brought in these fraud waves is that the malfeasance is damned hard to trace.

HP 15.4″ with huge upgrades, irresistible price. Vista Premium.
Yeah, I did a bad thing, and I need to do penance… I know – I’ll get myself an iPhone!

In The Audacity of Hope, Barak Obama wrote:

“While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes-mass murder, the rape and murder of a child-so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment.”

IMHO killing people to make others feel good, to express outrage, or to provide closure, catharsis, or whatever is simply a form of thrill killing. In and of itself it is evil, and it fosters an atmosphere that condones killing to express rage.

Those who take Obama’s position have to understand that the only “pale” that counts in a death sentence is that of the sentencing court. Here, for example, is a news item from yesterday’s Times:

Twenty-nine people convicted of crimes including drug trafficking, murder and rape were hanged in Iran yesterday, in the country’s biggest mass execution in years.

[…]

Eight women and a man also face death by stoning for adultery, despite a moratorium introduced in 2002 on such executions, an Iranian human rights group said last week.

Courts in Iran consider adultery “beyond the pale” and the ruling Iranian community feels justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment, which to them is stoning.

Here are the numbers of executions in 2007 by the top-ten death-penalty countries:
1 CHINA: 470+
2 IRAN: 317+
3 SAUDI ARABIA: 143+
4 PAKISTAN: 135+
5 USA: 42
6 IRAQ: 33+
7 VIET NAM: 25+
8 YEMEN: 15+
9 AFGHANISTAN: 15
10 LIBYA: 9+

That makes these nations our moral peers in this matter. They include no Western nations and no Iron Curtain nations. No nations from the western hemisphere. No European nations. Only third-world nations, either muslim or communist.

OMG, you are a POD person. /s

What a neat idea.

All these church-goers, and that can’t wait to kill walking, talking creatures.
Jesus…

New World Order

Which brings up the other possibility, i.e. that the point was to be on the job rather than the take. Go-between? Of course, it’s probably irresponsible to speculate;)

you earned it.. can ya get me one too for helpin??

And Bush agreed to execute a soldier today. I guess he didn’t want to be one-upped by the Church madman.

…but I’m not paying the monthly bill.
Your advise was invaluable. Thank you a lot.

cheaper than a uhaul and i don’t have to pay the gas like i would if i rented a truck

Darlin dmac.. Don’t move to Texas. Treat it like impeachment.. just keep it off the table.

I hear the bill for the new is pretty steep… I use my cell as a phone and nothing else…guess I will wait till we get the telcos to lower their prices with competition… Ya right when Hell Freezes over..

a little History for you to ponder on!

Apple + ATT = unholy alliance, but it’s the only game in town.

I get tired of repeating this.

He’s guilty, and complicit.

As are ALL of Congress, BOTH Houses.

They are all guilty, and they know it.

So, they HAVE to support the ‘letting go’ of the Bushie’s, in order to save their own butts from serious prosecution.

And they have.

It’s not rocket science, it don’t require a Ph.d in law, or constitutional law, or anything else.

These fuckers stood by, enabled and supported the committee chairs and their members who WERE in on it all.

Which makes them ALL compliant, and subject to prosecution.

So, they all back up, back off, and enable legislation to cover their asses.

It’s simple.

It’s rigged.

It’s what it is.

Geebuz, HARUMPH, for cryin out loud . . . ;-)

This is what really needs doing!!

ok, pups, i’m still going through stuff so i had better get to it since the pod arrives friday. wanna have it all boxed up and ready to go so sunday is more party and less pack.

g’nite all.

nite suz

Party did some one say party

Sing it loud!

g’ nite Suz

I recently read about the Leopold/Loeb killing of the 14 year old boy (cousin of one of the killers) just for the experience of it. One of the killers was killed in jail by another inmate. The other was released eventually. Were I the parent of the murdered child, yes, it would have been justice, I think, if both killers — who admitted their heinous crime — had simply been put down. Simple justice. And an end to the whole thing. But, hey, I’m simple minded about that stuff. I also have no problem with the termination of an early pregnancy. I don’t see how you can okay one without okaying the other. If you do not believe in capital punishment, you also cannot, I think, believe in abortion. If you can tolerate fetal termination, you might also tolerate capital punishment. thoughts?

More Pink

You may be right.
And this is beside the point, but if Conyers, as an example, had that chair 12 years ago and this asshole in the White House, do you think he’s be the stiff he is being now?

I think he’s too tired to get it up.

Heh, I’ve got all first four vinyls with Brian Jones, and then, I’ve got Flowers, and um, Exile, but that’s too easy . . . I’ve got a few others . . . haven’t looked in at them in years . . . been a fan of theirs for EVAH!

The original core, with Ian Stewart, then Nicky Hopkins . . . and Ian again . . .

Saw them live ONCE, in SF, Convention Center, think it was ‘72 or ‘73 . . . they were incredible, and Hopkins and Merry Clayton were there . . . who KNOWS who the horn section was . . .

My fav Stones is DEFINITELY their first four releases . . . . that club garage band R&B thang.

The others broke up, died. Stones, still rockin . . . go figger, they got tenacity, I guess . . TALENT! *G*

Terminating a pregnancy is not about justice.. And justice is far to often flawed… Heck I remember just how sickening it was when Saddam was hung…and there was no doubt he was fellow who deserved it as much as anyone could. I don’t think people should be put in the situation of determining justice for crimes committed against their friend or loved ones (reminds me of the stupid question Dukakis was asked in the debates). And I sure don’t think the State should be allowed to consider, much less commit the death penalty. To much room for error and abuse.

The Wurlitzer Prize

Not according to international law … there is no immunity for war crimes and crimes against humanity.. so some day when they least expect some one like Simon Wiesenthal will get them!

Cold comfort.
The only way we constrain any future executive is to show them NOW what the penalty for empire is.
But I take your point.

Jumping Jack Flash
Ya mean like this one??

That would be the best way but… they know that somewhere some way they WILL get their due!! Just like many of the Nazis did in South America!!

I also have no problem with the termination of an early pregnancy. I don’t see how you can okay one without okaying the other. If you do not believe in capital punishment, you also cannot, I think, believe in abortion. If you can tolerate fetal termination, you might also tolerate capital punishment. thoughts?

I consider abortion and murder to be distinct notions. But I object to state-ordered abortions as well as state-ordered executions.

What, yer Midnight Confessions? *G*

Geebuz, were you a Bay Area Brat back then?

How about this one

Points taken. Yes, too many errors. And Leopold turned out to be an okay guy, apparently. Still and all, if my child were killed by someone who admitted to the crime, I’d rather deal with their being put down than have to attend parole hearings forever. Some crimes against other human beings, when truly and thoroughly documented should, I think, be ended with a death sentence. I didn’t like Timothy McVeigh — but I respected that he accepted his horridness and chose death over interminable appeals. Weird, I guess. But I respected that he was a supreme deviant and owned it.

Yeah, but what the hay, a few months or a year and a job or two, and well, the PAC NW will feel my dobro and our presence in YOUR abode . . . we split the seafood, the wine, I cook, you two clean . . .

Ahhhhh, fresh salt air from the ocean . . . daym, as you might say . . . *G*

I don’t think I said so much about justice. I think I was talking about life. Where the Right gets off is making unborn life something special…..and yet thinks the death penalty is just fine. I think liberals might come up with reality about that. And I think it is confusing.

An excellent article on the upcoming flood of pardons by Brent Budowsky: http://consortiumnews.com/2008/072608a.html

Na I come from just where my Name says!!

Capital “punishment” is vengeance at the caprice of the state, on behalf of the state.
You cannot, in my opinion, equate that with termination of a pregnancy. Particularly when the sanction a woman chooses between she and her God or doctor or family or just all by herself has no element of vengeance or punishment.

And I would like to say, on behalf of men who think like me, that when you attain a uterus, you are uniquely qualified to decide. And not before.

Get Off of My Cloud

I love that one!
How about this?

I see we’re thinking alike, so i’ll stop now. :)

I would like to know more of his thoughts on this part.

There will be a huge legal debate about the right of a President to issue pardons so sweeping in their language that they cover all these potential areas of legal liability, and very possibly, it cannot be done.

One thing about pardons: anyone with a pardon cannot plead the fifth. If called on to testify, they have to make a binding choice. They can formally reject the pardon and thereby avoid the need to testify, or they can accept the pardon, in which case they must testify and are subject to perjury laws etc. That could get very interesting, because the things they say in U.S. court would be admissible in international trials.

Or, perhaps, as the Y provider who participates in the decision with the X provider?

Nope I am from here

I would like to propose something – we lobby Jane and company for a panel discussion about this.
Invited guests:
John Dean
Bruce Fein
Jonathan Turley
Bob Barr
John McKay

…and whatever other good-faith Goopers we can find. Republicans or former Republicans only.

You should like this one another of my favs

Damn, one I’ve never seen!!

Geez, the dual break Stills and Young split is sweet.

And so young into the band at the time . . .

Later, soon, actually, a few of them couldn’t STAND to play with each other.

And they broke up a bit . . . I was SO lucky, a boss of mine when I was in local Spanish Radio (support staff) in about ‘01 or so, got me two tix for me and mine, to see the four of them at Arco Arena, Sacto, CA.

Greatest. Concert. Evah. I shook hands with Crosby, as they came out to side stage to tune up, and about ten folks were leanin over the railing . . he and Nash come over and sign a few quick autographs, and shake and howdy.

And they put on a 3 or more hour show, with the greatest musician ship and harmonies for electric and acoustic music I’d ever seen. And I’m a blue and new grass harmony kinda guy, with 3 and 4 parts being NORMAL.

It’s not that way in rock.

At a break, Nash and Crosby do about 5 tunes, acoustic. Every note hung in the air, every note. Breathless. I’ve never heard, other than on their recordings, such incredible duet harmony. Monster.

Whew.

And Young, my hero, was all over the rest of the show . . . with the four of them playing like it was 30 years ago.

Best CONCERT, evah . . . *G*

Perhaps it is unwise to preclude a spouse or partner, but as I said – the uterine-challenged need not apply.
JMO

Sounds good to me. LHP has a pretty solid understanding as well.

Hi Suzanne!

Once I packed my then-library of 34,000 volumes. and the rest of my household including my canoe, into a shipping container which was parked on the street in front of my digs. What a thrill when it arrived abroad and the customs seals were cut to reveal that everything was just as it had been when it left the USA. Only lost one wine glass.

So I can pretty well imagine what you are going through getting ready to pack a pod. I hope that all goes very well and that you are happy in your new location.

Regards,

cleanth

sounds good to me… you have my one vote!!

There is precedent for mass pardons, e.g., Carter’s pardon of the draft resisters. And I believe the power of the president to issue mass pardons has been tested and upheld in court.

There is precedent for blanket pardons, e.g., Ford’s pardon of Nixon, and I think I’ve read that such pardons (but not Nixon’s) have been tested and upheld in court.

I know of no instance of mass blanket pardons, but the stuff I read suggests that they would be upheld.

Roughly the stuff that I read (two or three years ago) indicated that a president cannot pardon crimes that have not yet been committed, but that’s about the only limitation.

I pointed to Republicans in particular because we are uniquely matched in this, and there is little chance of a display of bias. I would love LHP to moderate though, unless she is a Republican also.

And Marcy Wheeler is, of course, an essential component of any such discussion.

Well, that was unexpected. Thanks everybody.

Dude got props!

I appreciate your thoughts on this. For years I’ve tried to make sense of ‘life’ and the choices around it. I have no problem with capital punishment (when I used to think it was meted out justly…….I was naive!) — and I don’t have a problem with fetal termination. I’m confused by the Rights who are all gung-ho about capital punishment and all outraged about termination. I think there must be some way to make sense of this nonsense.

I caught a small performance.. front and center of Neil backed up by Booker T and the MG’s, where every note was just sweet perfection.. CSN or CSNY shows were larger, but always magic to me.

Not ever having faced down someone who murdered someone I love, I cannot possibly put myself in that position.
But I did sit on a jury a few years back, on a murder case – guy killed his wife. His children, all grown, sat there every day in court.
It was not a capital case.

Dude, you rawk.. Damn if KO didn’t want to cuss like a sailor! I expect you will be writing for him any day now…)

12 years ago they were all STILL part and parcel bought by the 1%.

And Conyers would have faded and folded, with lip speak, then.

Look at who was in charge, and what HE did, with NAFTA, and with Executive Privilage issues.

It’s a 1% thang, then and now, since post Eisenhower (actually, since forever).

We now have a Unitary Executive, which can trump the constitution, and Congress.

It’s been a goal of the 1% for a long time.

Ask the laborers, the progesssives, the socialists . . . look at the history of our country.

Manifest, it is.

Harumph.

;-)

I think you are right here. Let us extend this line of thinking to wars. It is good to see you trying to pursue the consequences of actions through more thoroughly than we have usually seen of late, whichever side you are taking.

FWIW, and as many on these boards might expect of me, I am not in favour of intentional killing. Full stop.

There are pernicious and usually not-thought-through tendencies hereabouts to reify persons and this makes it easier for us to kill them, having turned them into things.

Here come, I suppose, the expected put-downs from the usual suspects.

Wishful thinking, the 1% protect themselves, country to country.

And Simon is dead, isn’t he? God bless all he DID do in his time.

There ARE no Simon’s left . . .

There are no Hague Courts left.

That are actionable. OR effective.

Harumph.

Well dogs, it’s time I called it a night!

Congrats again, Spencer.

g’ nite

That is incorrect. Consider the impeachment of Judge Alcee Hastings.

In 1988, the Democratic-controlled U.S. House of Representatives took up the case, and Hastings was impeached for bribery and perjury by a vote of 413-3. Voters to impeach included Democratic Representatives Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, John Conyers and Charles Rangel. He was then convicted in 1989 by the United States Senate, becoming the sixth federal judge in the history of the United States to be removed from office by the Senate. The vote on the first article was 69 for and 26 opposed, providing five votes more than the two-thirds of those present that were needed to convict. The first article accused the judge of conspiracy. Conviction on any single article was enough to remove the judge from office. The Senate vote cut across party lines, with Senator Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Vermont voting to convict his fellow party member, and Arlen Specter voting to acquit.

nite eureka
great thread. again.

Wow. That must have been something. If it wasn’t a capital case, there must have been extenuating circumstances. I think the death penalty should be rare and rarely used…..but I haven’t been able to bring myself to say never. My county is talking about creating a hospital/prison for the elderly who cannot be released and are now in need of health care. I have reservations. Heart transplants for viscious murderers? I just don’t get it.

Nah, that was later . . . after they went psychedelic . . .

Beggar’s Banquet and Let It Bleed trumped Ya Ya’s . . . IMHO. *G*

Like I said, up to Flowers, that was what caught my soul . . . heck, I still love Between The Buttons! *G*

After that, it was great rock n roll . . .

ok, i just added three photos in honor of firedoglake..to the firedoglake readers flickr group, click on my name to go there..one photo should be our logo……am still exploring the assets of highspeed, in all of its loveliness…..my, what a computer can do…..old computer, enhanced things due to being able to download programs now…….and soon am gonna be flyin////

i had email back when noone knew what it was, is nice to be back on the ‘edge’
information station. that’s what it’s all about in my book.

leaving you with this on my fly-by-

my #2 favorite band of all time-did ballads, bluegrass and kick ass rock–pousette-dart band
woman of my dreams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
smile on me-bluegrass rock–keep in mind they were doing this in the late ’70’s–dig around on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

and the song i am promoting until everyone hears it, i’ve been listening to it all day long, to remind me what matters.
mary gauthier with marty stuart on mandolin at the grand ole opry

mercy now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
there is a version of it with a katrina montage that rips my heart out.
she is from louisiana.

download her ‘it ain’t the wind, it’s the rain’ on amazon, soul deep kick ass rock.

love to all, nite pups. i am gonna drive you crazy with links after the initial thrill wears off…….bet on it. what a weapon that has been unleashed…..oh my…..i’ll take care to be responsible with it…

: )

Lucky dog!!

We were told at the start of selection that the maximum count would yield life in prison. Must have been managed by the very strong public defender.
Older couple, drinking involved, the possibility of an affair, etc.

But as I said, the family attended every day, and waited every minute during 3 full days of deliberation.

Dad kills Mom – what would you want for a sentence?

Per Article II:

[The president] shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

So, exactly what is a case of impeachment?

– Can he pardon himself and/or others out of an impeachment?
– Can he pardon himself and/or others when he is under impeachment?
– Can he pardon himself and/or others out of the underlying crime in cases of impeachment (whatever that means)?
– If the president is impeached but not convicted, when does it start being a case of impeachment, and when does it stop being a “case of impeachment”?

forgot–the ap posts a weekly montage of photos on youtube with explanations from their photo editor, i will be watching this for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..eature=dir
omg, it’s almost 4am again…….sweet dreams.

yaicha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

favorite is county line, not on youtube.

can get their ‘best of’ on amazon mp3’s for 9 bucks-22 songs.
worth it. way worth it.

my #2 favorite behind pete. they were way ahead of their time.

nite.

Realisticly, probably a time limited term. But if the wife had been brutally murdered by some non-connected and unknown gang-banger with a long rap sheet with multiple physical assaults (rapes, etc.) on non-familials, then maybe just get him (or her) the f#ck off the planet. There are, in my experience, some people who missed humanity when it was being handed out. You can house ‘em at high cost for 50 years or more….or you can end the madness. It’s a choice. A hard one — especially for those of us who are interested in humanity. But it’s a choice that can be made, I think. None of this circumstantial crap. But when the goods are in, what makes sense about housing (in mostly inhumane conditions) a killer.

Per citizen spook:

The Constitution Voids Presidential Pardons For Criminal Convictions Or Indictments Flowing From “Cases of Impeachment” Where The Senate Has Voted To Convict.

I’ve read the analysis and am not yet convinced.

i’m so tired i repeated links, a first. sorry bout that.

nite

Considered.

Still, I’d call that one an easy dog pile by everyone involved.

The same characters have sold out the progressives, the masses, and the NON 1% ever since.

I don’t buy it as any example for justice . . . then, or now . . . but thanks for putting that info up.
I’d completely forgot about all that . . .

I guess, all the Reagan shit and Latin American exploits were TOP OF MIND for me back then . . .

A lil in house corruption? Piddles compared to the largess at hand going on.

*G*

I try to detach myself from the circumstances and evaluate the state itself.
Certain guilt (not such a sure thing in many capital case verdicts) in the eyes of a jury, and the sanction of a judge to pronounce sentence, has proved to be heinously fallible. So when I think about this, I use the amorphous assumption that the convicted is guilty as charged by my own certainty, and that the sentence is pronounced on my behalf directly.

And I still come up wanting more from the state than discarding an individual.

It is not a deterrent to crime – this hasn’t just been argued, and it hasn’t just been proven false, but it has been disproven to my satisfaction.

What is left is vengeance. I am not satisfied with the state being an instrument of vengeance.

As I said, just my notion.

And still, for all the decency they showed way back when, I agree that there is no excuse for any legislator to act they way they have. They represent people, but they act on their own behalf.

If you get a chance, watch the 6 hour piece from last week on C-Span, about Presidential power. Watch Elizabeth Holtzman discuss the Watergate hearings. Fascinating stuff.

I have never HEARD of Pousette-Dart Band . . . ever, but thanks for sharing.
Interesting. Without hearing them live, I’m not sure I get all they do to turn me on.

Mary Gauthier?

‘I Drink’.

One of the darkest souls and voices in all of singer/songwriter persondom! *G*

She’s been at two Strawbery Fests (www.strawberrymusic.com) I’ve attended since ‘01.

Brutal music.

I LOVE Marty Stuart! Have for YEARS! *G*

And he’s a BerryFest picker, too, over the years.

I can listen to Marty doing acoustic stuff, all night long. His electric stuff? Not so much.

Interesting linky’s, D . . . thanks . . .

I do understand. And I totally understand that the death penalty is not a deterrent to others. But it is a deterrent to the subject. A killer who is put down will not be a killer again. I think Timothy McVeight ‘got’ that. And, as I said, this ‘justice’ should be rare. But there are cases that are clear and well documented. And I don’t have a problem with those rare cases. but I agree that our system sucks. What a shame, really. Would you have advocated for a life sentence for Timothy McVeigh? He owned what he did and took his punishment like a man. Should he have endured a life sentence in the pit that we call the justice system? That would probably have been worse than death…….

1,716 DAYZAND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Larue:

“A lil in house corruption? Piddles compared to the largess at hand going on.”

But there is a direct connection between the two. don’tcha know, and there has never been a successful movement to stop the hargess of foriegn incursions except for Vietnam and that cost us more than we could afford because we didn’t throw all the bastards in jail and they all ended up comin back like Feddie Kreuger…over and over again from Iran Contra to Impeachment and the war in Iraq.

KEEP THE FAITH, THIS BATTLE WILL NOT BE OVER UNTIL ONE SIDE IS IRRADICATED!!

I heard today that the California justice system is going to have to promulgate a policy regarding same-sex marriage of inmates. Life is so interesting!

Thanks. ‘Preciate all you offer for me to learn and recall . . .

How much more evidence do we need to share with us ‘choir members’ till the non choir folks GET it?

How do we take DOWN, and OUT, the 40%? The 27%? the 1%?

Analysis of history is fine, but where’s the action plan?

I maintain, the masses got no rigor left in them, and it WILL take a rigorous effort to change ANYthing to the favor of the masses, and to divert and reshape the evil of the 1%.

Who will address THIS need?

Obama is better n McCain, but he’s no progressive, and likely will prove to be yet another Clinton, and FURTHER CONSOLIDATE the Unitary Executive . . . and further expand the MIC efforts to wage imperialism abroad.

You wanna get screwed CLEAN, or with some lubricants?

That’s where we are, and Obama has shown he’s got a boat load of lube for us all.

And yet, unless I cave for LONG TERM change and go Green, he’s all I got.

I’m pissed.

Harumph.

I see very few willing to do so . . .

I concur with your last bold caps statement, Norske.

I concur.

So. To what? *G*

Show me an emboldened masses to rise above the fray of ugly and evil?

It don’t exist.

I’m not even sure anymore that it CAN get so bad, the masses WILL revolt.

I just don’t see it.

We’re Phooked, methinks . . . diminishing futures for us all, for our kids, for the grandkids.

Got better? ;-)

Would you have advocated for a life sentence for Timothy McVeigh?

Yes.
Setting aside the horrid state of correctional facilities for the moment, I believe that permanent confinement is just in these cases.
Legislators and juries and judges and police don’t (or don’t seem to) take these conditions into account, and maybe they should. But I don’t advocate taking someones life because they will suffer more in confinement, or it will be more expensive than killing them. Should a judge pronounce a sentence of death because Soledad or San Quentin aren’t less cruel? I don’t think so.

And if you’re looking for a deterrent to crime, life in one of these places, bleak or not, seems to me to be a greater deterrent. A living, breathing example of where you spend the rest of your long life if you fuck things up.

By the way, larue – and you too, Norske – we got linked to this last night here – it’s a conversation between Tom Hayden and Naomi Klein and their respective rises to activism. It is simply amazing.

This Brave Nation

I do appreciate your views. But I also note that death row inmates have fan clubs and find nutty women who want to (and do) marry them. And those very deviant inmates can influence other inmates … and ‘educate’ them. Nuts! Is there nothing that one human can do to another that warrants being put down? And keeping a mad killer corralled for a lifetime benefits whom? Whatever. This is something that can be discussed forever. We all draw our own lines. I have yet to hear any reason to keep a cold killer on ice. Just me. ‘Nite.

We are very close on this. My objections are the state as an actor.
nite DWR1

Hoss, the only thing wrong with your sane and human posit for incarceration over death penalty is that, incarceration is NOT any kind of deterrant.

It’s where people who GET jailed, learn to be better criminals.

And that’s a matter of pure survival behind prison walls, where it IS ugly than hell.

So, I guess, I’m more pissed about PUTTING folks in prison, than I am worried about the death penalty and what’s a better deterrent to further criminal behavior.

Prisons are breeding grounds for better criminals, and for furthering violent learned behavior.

Period.

It’s a business, and it’s failing the masses, but it’s serving the 1% to pacify the have’s, and isolate the minorities, the uneducated, the unwanted, the mentally ill, and more of society’s castoffs.

If we spent HALF what we do on prisons, and incarceration, and spent that half on education and rehab and JOBS for us all including the CRIMINALS, we’d save lives, and spend MUCH less money.

But that would be going up against the 1%, the Prison Guards Unions, and the 40% who think we SHOULD bust every non honkie for being not white . . . cuz we ALL know, they are all gang related and EVIL!

Harumph.

Attaturk is upstairs, bringing the fear. Again!
Terra, Terra, Terra

larue–funny thing, today, swung into the parking lot blaring music at doc’s office todayc from my newly mixed ‘carsongs #1′ and noticed the guy next to me was doing the same thing…….older guy…ends up a cd was stuck in his player, i stopped to help, he had all kinds of’mix’ cd’s, the one that was stuck? christmas in july. his grandkids makes them for him.he couldn’t figure out the cd player. i used my debit card it ‘kick’ it so it would eject.got to talking meanwhile, he grew up with marty stuart’s sister…she was in an accident with a huge woodpile and had to be homeschooled…….i gave him my new car songs cd, with mary’s ‘it ain’t the wind, it’s the rain; on it, and told him about the opry performance with marty….wrote it down for him…this was in a little town in ohio by the west virginia border..his wife came out and i told told her what we were talkin’ about, she verified, old news…..nite.

I agree that those places are Hellish. I do suggest that the cases we are talking about, capital cases, are appropriate for life in prison, and if I were to design a jail system, it certainly wouldn’t be along the lines of what we have now.

I would further segregate folks who are there for life from anyone who could leave. But I’m not a correctional specialist. I just know that the state, with all its powers and problems, isn’t an institution that I trust to decide on or implement a death.

Yep, it’s a business, and it’s corrupt, and it’s awful without these flaws. But I am not in favor of killing someone to spare them this system.

Nice video . . . no solutions to turn this mess around, though.

Not now.

Just more of keep on keeping on . . . and THAT, my friend, will not a democracy save.

We don’t HAVE time to do things within the system.

Crap is gonna get bad so fast, even the system is gonna go belly up.

And even the SOFT changes coming, are gonna get banged down by the 1% (Obama is no change agent).

I appreciate your, um, perspective, but it’s not making change NOW.

And It Never Will.

But on yer side, the masses are incapable of rising en masse at this point.

So. On we go, to the plummet of our depths . . . ;-)

That’s a story, hoss . . . *G*

We need 10,000 Tom Haydens just to kick-start this thing. I don’t see it either.
A couple of years ago I had the chance to ask a very popular author whether he thought it would take people lying down in traffic to begin the protest movement again, or at least to give it a chance to take hold. He shrugged.

Your last sentence resonates loudly.

I have to concur with that.

It’s only human.

Peace, hoss . . . it’s another nights sleep with thoughts on my mind . .

nite larue. i’m glad we talked
i am out as well
take care of the place

Yeh, the bodies are not there, and that’s my biggest downer.

40 years ago, I was 15. And I followed hundreds to protest.

And we followed hundreds. Often.

An EASY hundreds, any event.
From my high school, from my town.

Now? Not so much . . . sigh.

No, we’ve BEEN “phooked” for over 200 years or at least since the reinfranchisement of the slave South in 1877. However, there is a physics to political economy and when enough folks hit bottom and they don’t have any retirement and their kids are all comin’ back home like a really bad dream, there WILL be hell ta pay and it ain’t gunna be purty…but then who knows where we end up outta all that but it won’t be with a white male member of the old oligarchy callin’ the tune.

I’m grateful to citizen spook for the following analysis.

Per Article 2, Section 3, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution:

The President…shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. [Emphasis added.]

And, per Article 1, Section 3, Clause 7:

Judgement in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgement and punishment, according to law. [Emphasis added]

Thus, if someone is impeached, i.e., we have a case of impeachment on our hands, and that party gets convicted, then a presidential pardon doesn’t protect them from liability, indictment, trial, judgement and punishment, according to law. For instance, if Scooter Libby were impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate for his actions in the Plame case, his pardon would be nullified. See citizen spook’s fine article for further details.