What we have done to these people is a horror. We have slaughtered more than Saddam ever did and just a cruelly. And we have destroyed their civil society and infrastructure.

Those responsible are mad men (and women) and the military needs to be held accountable for essentially going along so easily with the attack of a sovereign nation – NOT IT’S ARMY which was beyond a doubt not a threat to this nation.

The pile of lies and the UN Dog and Pony show of Powell will life in infamy. We need to get out of there ASAP because everything we do there turns to hell.

Oh I forgot, it was only about the oil. Humans beings don’t count.

Sander … read the Azzaman link to Fatih’s essay … precisely

There seems to be a consensus that the thugs of the Cheney junta will escape prosecution by US authorities, but I think it would be wonderful if a few years down the line some of them are kidnapped by a group of people sort of like the Nazi hunters and “rendered” to the World Court and punished for their war crimes.

WHat were the troops planning on, robbing the bank of insurgents?

Hi Siun, thanks, as ever, for what you do.

I wish that BushCo appreciated that death is forever.
I’m ashamed that we kill innocents and then are craven enough to lie about it.

US forces admitted today to killing three bank employees, calling the killing “an extremely unfortunate and tragic incident” while trying to cover-up earlier lies they were armed insurgents.

All of us here are so angry about the travesties. Imagine how angry they are, the ones who have to put up with the wanton killings in this war of choice.

And I’m ashamed that we will never hold any of the criminals to account here. I’m now in the “To The Hague” camp for BushCo. And extraordinary renditions to Iraq if that’s what it takes for the aggrieved to get justice.

Iraqi blood is not cheap, no one’s is. We deserve what we get in return.

Leila Fadel of Mcclatchy says that the mil. calls earlier reports they were fired on and that there was a gun in the car “misunderstandings.” Who on earth do they think they’re kidding??

How do we make it stop?

Aloha, Siun!

I also read that a relative of Maliki’s was killed in a recent raid that was described as, depending on sources, reckless, a mistake, or negligent homicide. I can’t find the news report now. Anyone know about it? I wonder if that had any effect on Maliki’s public statements -maybe added some urgency or resolve to his decision to push for time horizone (ie, table) for withdrawal.

Why is nobody in the MSM talking about the Iraqi deaths?

Even Obama discusses only the American deaths. Can someone help me understand this?

I’m thinking some people will be held to account if Obama is elected.

The wording of the MNF announcement is really bizarre as they acknowledge the earlier charges of weapons, etc but just sorta talk past them.

McClatchy ran articles on this; you can check their archives–it was only 2 weeks ago or so. Also, Voices of Iraq…

Yes yes yes. And sooner than later, please all deities above, below, wherever.

digg this
and upvote it on reddit
and please comment.

If you aren’t on reddit yet
here’s how, it’s easy.
there are dedicated trolls there so the upvotes do matter.

Why do American wonder why they want to kill us all?!?

I don’t like the phrase they have nothing left to lose so some retribution is on the way.

Of course I can see how the Iraqis despise America, how could the not? Could you image the reverse… which is what we used to inspire the patriots to sign up and kill for.

The fact that we are still resorting to such destruction at this stage of civilization shows how primitive we are. And I am not excusing anyone who resorts to violence on such a scale.

I think these guys will have to pay a price but it won’t be impeachment. I think the Iraqis should set up a tribunal and do what Simon Wisenthal did and hunt down the war criminals and put them on trial.

Obviously this government has no sense of ethics or moral outrage at what these people have done. And it is so vast from torture to cluster bombs to depleted uranium to rape. If they did hundreds in the administration and military would be behind bars.

The military acted in a shameful manner throughout this effort and lied all along too.

Thanks Elliott!

Great question. obviously, elections don’t work.

Siun, this rubbish pisses me off to no end…

The United States is now winning the war that two years ago seemed lost. Limited, sometimes sharp fighting and periodic terrorist bombings in Iraq are likely to continue, possibly for years.[…]

Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, told the AP on Thursday that the insurgency as a whole has withered to the point where it is no longer a threat to Iraq’s future.

“Very clearly, the insurgency is in no position to overthrow the government or, really, even to challenge it,” Crocker said. “It’s actually almost in no position to try to confront it. By and large, what’s left of the insurgency is just trying to hang on.”[…]

Systematic sectarian killings have all but ended in the capital, in large part because of tight security and a strategy of walling off neighborhoods purged of minorities in 2006.

That has helped establish a sense of normalcy in the streets of the capital. People are expressing a new confidence in their own security forces, which in turn are exhibiting a newfound assertiveness with the insurgency largely in retreat.

Dugg!

Hi Siun. Thanks for the post.

Let no one think that Iraqi blood is so cheap.

I saw this piece over at GG the other day. I’ve been referring thinking folks to GG for a reality check.

I’m in the process of reading Kilcullen’s counterinsurgency writings. He raises more questions in my mind than he answers. I’m hoping that his Countering Global Insurgency (70 page pdf) clears some of it up.

CT – newsnow was full of “we are not winning” headlines today … bullshit

In case you didn’t see this last week, the post on the pain ray at my blog as a series of you tubes regarding possible black weapons used in the early days of the invasion. How low will we go?

There is so much digging that will have to happen to know just how many wrongs we have committed.

I’m thinking some people will be held to account if Obama is elected.

I wish you were right, Loo Hoo, but I don’t think so; it’ll be “let’s move on” — just like Watergate, just like Iran-Contra.

G’night everyone,
I need to take a long walk with the dog.

Did you read this excellent article by Helena Cobban?

What planet does this guy live on? Son of a bitch has got a Bengal tiger by both ears and thinks he has control of the situation.

Laura … that was a very good post – folks should click your name and go read it!

Good night Elliott. Thanks again for all your support. You have no idea how much it means to me!

Thank you. I should be able to remember to check McClatchy for Iraq stories.

Recent raid kills one of Maliki’s cousins:

In Maliki’s hometown, grief and questions after deadly U.S. raid
By Qassim Zein and Hannah Allam

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/42641.html

…Two aspects of the covert operation infuriated Iraqi officials, from the Karbala council building all the way to the Baghdad government headquarters.

… the raid occurred within Karbala province, one of nine provinces ostensibly under full Iraqi control…

The second is that the man described by the military as “a local security guard” was actually a cousin of Maliki’s and served as the personal bodyguard of Maliki’s sister,…
….

“(The troops) raided this room… and detained the guards, including Ali, who’d memorized a few English words and tried to tell them, ‘I’m police. I’m a Maliki guard,’”.. “They tied the hands of the three guards and took Ali to the room. Ten minutes later, they heard gunfire. The American forces killed Ali.”

——————–
My comment is that if this story is true, there are very disturbing things happening. What is scary about McCain’s attitude is that he seems to have no awareness about the ghastly costs of this kind of violent occuption -on both moral and practical levels.

McCain seems to share the childish idea of Cheney/Bush that there is a lump of easily recognizable ‘bad guys’ and we can storm around and kill them, and then somehow things will be fine. Call it the ‘lump of bad guys who stick out like sore thumbs’ fallacy.

The very real and high costs of this kind of havoc must be weight against the benefits of staying. Since Cheney/Bush/McCain cannot explain at all what the beneftis of indefinite occupation are, I have to assume that they don’t know what they are doing. Or, that what they are really doing is not what they say they are doing.

Heh, didn’t you get the memo that teh Surge worked…? ;-)

Thank you! It garnered me my first hate mail–so I must be stirring up something in the pond! If folks click on my name, you’ll have to scroll down to ‘older posts.’ Or linky above @ 24.

It was a great post and very informative. The idea of the pain ray is really scary. When will we learn?

Wow, Laura! You got operators to respond…! I congratulate you on the deft way you handled it! I wholly agree that the main issue is the potential abuse of the system…! ;-)

Hello, Siun. Haven’t seen you around here lately, but then again I’ve been absent several days. This is sad, so sad. I just wonder how many more times will this happen. All we hear about on the TV news, cable news, endlessly, is why doesn’t Obama admit the surge is a success. Yeah, it has been successful in getting the MSM to downplay or mostly just ignore the violence that continues to happen there, that is the only thing it has done. And the MSM dialogue about the ’surge’ is always about America, what it means to America; well, it’s not about us; it’s about Iraqis continuing to be killed, each and every day.

Obama and his spokesmen should say it’s not about us, it’s about Iraquis, it should be about what the Iraqi people want, and they want us out. Meanwhile, their horror, and the terror and fear they must feel just continues, I don’t know how they motivate themselves to get out of bed every day.

The best I can do is hope and pray that there is a special place in hell reserved for these criminals in the next world, though I would much rather see them punished in this world. Whatever I can do to see that this happens, I am willing to do. My thoughts are with you and the innocents that continue to be killed.

What I find both contemptible and frightening about McCain’s campaign is that it is, I think very clearly, trying to continue the Cheney/Bush smear tactics and mindless jingoism in order to win elections. They lie, distort and rewrite history. Anyone who attempts to tell the truth, or offer another opinion, is smeared as dishonoring the troops.

This destroys any possibility of honest discussion of points that might be important for deciding who to vote for -like, f’rinstance, what is the reality. It has come to a ridiculous point where unless you invest the US troops with magical powers, and simply say that everything they do is just exactly the right thing and a smashing success, then you are unpatriotic.

Civilian and high military leadership making mistakes, are the troops being put in an impossible situation, is military being asked to do the impossible? No matter, any questioning of anything is unpatriotic and dishonorable slam against the troops.

It is very clear the surge was not responsible for all of the improvements in Iraqi security. And in some cases it did not work as planned: it may have facilitated ethnic cleansing of Baghdad. But to even attempt to discuss those issues is dishonoring the troops.

I hope McCain is confronted with his use of these smear tactics sometime during the campaign. It is important not only to defeat the guy, but this political tactic has to be destroyed if we are to recover our democratic government.

Thank you so much. Did you see the 2 military folk comments? If they are speaking true, they are not being kept abreast–or keeping themselves abreast–of the manifold applications of the thing. Sad and scary. Also they seem to have far too much confidence in the good intentions/rightful use of this weapon. I’ve been meaning to hunt up some old youtubes of peaceful demonstrators getting clobbered, just to help underscore the fact that we don’t live in a hunky-dory world.

But what surprises me the most is how hard it is to get folks to think about this stuff. The information is out there to be had in a trice; still people don’t seem to want to know.

Elliot has been such a gem, helping move the word along…

Thank you. Thanks to the wonderful site meter, I discovered a website belonging to a company that trains mil an others on tactical weaponry. THEY had a part of my article and linked to the rest. I believe I’m on their Know Thy Enemy list ; ) . But the 2 guys who wrote in were nice enough…

Read your post when you first directed us there but hadn’t seen the comments until now. Nice to see military folks getting involved in the discussion.

It’s not just that the FCM has reduced their coverage of the horrors of Iraq, but, it has been a very concerted effort to censor it by this Maladministration… How else do you explain: 4,000 U.S. Deaths, and a Handful of Images…?

Btw, I appreciated your comment, SD! ;-)

Do you think that policy will change if Obama is elected?

Just shoot members of journalists families.

We need to make him aware of it and then hold his feet to the fire…!

Eureka … I had not seen that story … good lord, how many more will we just slaughter?

Um, no. The lessons learned from VN is to have no John Paul Vanns nor Halberstams. Think they’ve succeeded.

Heh, that works too…! Speaking of which, maybe some justice will be meted out… Security forces arrest slayers of Iraqi female journalist in Salah al-Din

A group tried to do a citizens arrest of Rove Friday, one was a minister, they were arrested

Es, Siun the boy was 14: Leila Fadel’s article today

By the way, ES, did you catch Badger’s h/t to you? YAY!

Maybe we should start an FDL think tank. Real progressives with real progressive ideas. I guess we’ve got the start of that with the Oxcart Express, come to think of it, once they get the oxen harnessed in.

Yes, I agree with you. It is a conscious effort to restrict information and stories like that from getting out, but it’s been that way for 7 years, do you think it it moreso now? And the MSM of FCM just want to re-direct the public’s attention elsewhere. Even when I’ve seen reporters that I think are reputible on the tube, like Lara Logan and Michael — (brain-cramp right now), their comments about the current situation seem subdued and not complete; perhaps limited by thier bosses.

Btw, this was how it was reported at first…

A journalist’s son on Wednesday was killed by a sniper in southern Kirkuk, a local police chief said.

“A gunman opened fire on Arkan, the son of Iraqi journalist Ali Taha, near al-Rabe’ Bridge, southern Kirkuk, killing him on the sport,” Brigadier Sarhad Qadir told Aswat al-Iraq – Voices of Iraq – (VOI).
“The victim was killed with a silenced sniper gun while he was driving in the area,” he said.
Qadir did not mention further details.
The Iraqi journalist Taha Ali is the editor-in-chief of the independent weekly newspaper, Sawt al-Qura (Voice of Villages), published in Kirkuk.

And here’s how the MNF recounted the same news – notice how they try to make it sound like the 14 yr old was in a cab with people shooting at the US forces:
Multi-National Corps – Iraq
Public Affairs Office, Camp Victory
APO AE 09342

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
RELEASE No. 20080725-12
July 25, 2008

Civilian killed during attack on MND-N Soldiers (Kirkuk)
Multi-National Division – North PAO

KIRKUK, Iraq – An Iraqi civilian was killed after criminals in a passing taxi shot at Multi-National Division – North Soldiers in Kirkuk City July 23.

The Soldiers were recovering a disabled vehicle when they were attacked by multiple rounds of small-arms fire. One Soldier was wounded by the gunfire.

The Soldiers returned fire, killing a young Iraqi man in the taxi. Iraqi Police later detained the driver of the taxi.

“This is another example of the ruthless nature of the enemy, who in this case, put a young man in the direct line of fire during an attack on U.S. Soldiers,” said Col. David Paschal, commander, 1st Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division. “We are working closely with the Iraqi Police to find all those responsible and bring them to justice.”

She was on Moyers a while back. Very sharp and very, very courageous. Got a lot of respect for that young woman.

Teddy, making it stop is “off the table” didn’t you get the NancyMemo? jeebus man, get with the program.

It’s all going to be forgive and forget after this group of rustlers, burglars, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con-men, indian agents, mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwackers, horn-swagglers, horse-thieves, bull-dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers, and Methodists!

(Yes, Beloved Glorious Leader is a Methodist).

In a few weeks, will we be hearing about “misunderstandings” ?!

I had the privilege of meeting her last year. She is a dear heart, as well as a very intelligent person.

*smile*

sadly you are right … and they will announce that the 14 yr old was “a law abiding citizen” as they did for the bank employees.

Why do they never question whether american forces shooting civilians are “law abiding”?

Why does the fate of the Baron Danglars at the hands of Luigi Vampa in The Count of Monte Cristo come to mind?

All the various versions of the tragedy doesn’t bode well, Siun! If goes to a court martial, well, chances are they’ll skate anyways…

instead of commenting in outrage on yet another abomination in irak, i want to dedicate this version of mary gauthier’s (go-shay) ’mercy now’ that i found this morning (for the country music thread..was a good one) to mohammed and gorillas guides. and the pups that try to keep mercy and compassion alive….this is for mohammed the poet, cuz that’s who i thought of when i heard it this morning. bet he writes like this.
when i heard it live at fur peace ranch, tears rolled down my face, and i wasn’t the only one.
mercy now–with marty stuart at the grand ole opry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

thanks siun.

You might like this short presentation: No Secret Software! Maybe you could lend some your expertise to the conference in November.

I think Open Source is a great theme in addressing our government’s failings.

Thanks for the post Siun. The disinformation propagated by the US government only highlights the value of an open information source like FDL.

All the court martials have been pretty pathetic – the ACLU continues to dig our the records but there’s clearly no punishment for shooting Iraqis at random (or not, too many journalists, etc have been killed to make me think it’s simply random)

and i would like to point out to the people who don’t know this–is a big deal for her to sing a song like this at the opry…..kinda gives me the sense that the tide has turned when a song like this is at the opry. and applauded.

Not to mention the outrage that is Haditha.

Yeah, court-martial boards are having a hard time convicting anyone for the deaths of brown people. The military doesn’t seem to be able to produce witnesses for the prosecution, particularly when the proceedings are held in the US. We’ve very effectively made the Irakis pawns in a power struggle between the various factions and the US.

Siun, yesterday, Du popped in and said Erdla and the ‘horde’ were due back today…! ;-)

Mary is one of the favourites at my community radio station, WMNF, in Tampa. She’s been here a few times. Wonderful.

Dang I have not heard such happy talk since the first EVER Friedman unit.
How many times does Karl need to get burned before he realizes that Reality is not SUBJECTIVE to his will.
Reality is Objective and stringing him along before the big collapse:)

Yep … heard he was around for a bit … I bet the horde will keep him smiling!

Wonderful.

I have no expertise! I am a harmless drudge!

Thanks for everything, Siun. Goodnight, all.

Nighters, Laura. Great work.

Aloha, Laura!

Teddy’s upstairs…

lol :)

I missed that thread somehow. I am so glad I saw your re-post, since I hadn’t heard of Mary Gauthier. She’s great!

As someone who was drafted at the age of 19 in 1966 I would like to try to make a point. Many of these forces are still boys (some are convicts who have received wavers to meet recruitment goals) The environment in which they find themselves can be harrowing. People respond to this environment of fear by react in many ways. Many times not with appropriate restraint. The crime here is with those who put them in this situation

See 81. The responsible ones will not be the ones facing charges

for those of you that liked mary’s song, send her a note and let her know
http://www.marygauthier.com/site.php

here’s a katrina montage set to ’mercy now’ that could qualify for a short film award in my book, wanted to post it earlier, but would have been too offtopic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

you could put it to gg’s photos and see the same criminal and tragic things in the images.

Sure. I’ll ’splain it.

It’s murder, by our forces.

It sends a message to people who wander from our ‘reservation’s intent’ . .

And we have what’s ’sposed to be a standing reservation for a table of 150,000 and 10 or 12 super bases in Iraq, for a hundred years, or until the oil runs out.

Simple. USA perfected this tactic in SE Asia, and refined it in Latin America.

Gunboat diplomacy. Only, ground based. And yes, they have worked it since we did the Philippines, and did The Maine reaction . . .

How can you, or anyone else in here, forget the lessons history has laid for us?

Geez . . . . sometimes it’s like the 60’s never existed and none of us boomers recall being ENLIGHTENED by our high school teachers and college professor’s as to how NOT to swallow the koolaid of the 50’s and LONG before.

Harumph.

1776.

Nothing less will change it, and the Goliath who runs the show is bigger now, than he was then.

American’s don’t have the STOMACH for what it will take.

It will take PRESSURE! Bodies in the streets, work stoppages, and all that comes with going up against the have’s, when yer the have not’s.

And I’m not talkin about the poor people . . . I’m talkin about the so called middle class in here who earn $100K or more for a family of two or four.

They don’t have the stomach for the change they want, which will completely disrupt their lives.

They don’t have the fight. And electing Blue America candidates who quickly get shifted Doppler Red is no phreakin answer, other than to appease the 1%.

Harumph.