Divided Houses
Barbara Ehrenrich’s This Land is Their Land
Barbara Ehrenreich writes like an old time war reporter. The kind of person who would go to what were then called the fighting men and women, and ask them what they saw, and tell the stories that unfolded before her eyes. Her message from George W. Bush’s America would fit in with a military acronym from that time: FUBAR. It is about the small problems that add up to a mountain of unhappiness, and it consists entirely of small pieces, many op-eds or recovered blog posts, organized into larger headings.
The war that she is covering, however, in her book, subtitled "Reports from a Divided Nation," is that cultural and social war within the nation that plays itself out in the myriad forms of social violence that we inflict on each other, and on ourselves, to stay locked on the march of the consumer society. She mentions its Orwellisms – such as Wal-Mart spying on its worker’s private lives – and documents its Huxleyian obsession with being positive – such as in her piece on "Invasion of the Cheerleaders," where cheerleading is considered a key qualification for selling prescription pharmaceuticals.
She casts sidelong glances at some of her intellectual allies such as Jared Bernstein of the EPI, author of a book called Crunched: Why do I feel so squeezed?, but the core of the book is the same material she covered in an expository way in Nickel and Dimed. It is the other side of the big picture arguments you hear from the flatheads, and distant from the sweeping generalizations that populate the columns of David Brooks. Instead, Barbara Ehrenreich’s view is not from 30,000 feet and 30 trillion dollars, but from the ground where soldiers need food stamps, and most of the fastest growing job categories are menial service jobs that pay near poverty wages.
Often when a large social or economic direction is set, it is the women who are recruited, enticed, or coerced, into being the hands, eyes, and ears of that direction. From the recruiting of intelligent women to sort through the stream of Alfred Sloan consumerism, to the rush into the work force in the era of inflation – to the present push out which, far too late has gotten notice in the circles of the wise, when it masks a much darker reality of what has been called "Women’s Work." In the present, it includes the unglamorous tasks of rationing health care, and bullying people to conform in what she calls the Big Box Brother workplace.
This Land is Our Their Land chronicles these parallel forms of social violence: the rise of petty meanness as a principle of social organization, and the ways which ordinary people, particularly women, are on the front lines of inflicting and bearing a culture that has those who are ready to declare wars over marriage and music lyrics and Santa Claus. It is a world which has forgotten human dignity, a point she makes by referring to Robert W. Fuller’s Somebodies and Nobodies, and by telling stories of how people, as customers, consumers, employees, or even neighbors of the corporate system are treated without a shred of that most basic of liberal values.
There is in this book a necessary bluntness, most pointedly in her section "Owning Up to Abortion," where despite her perspective from the trenches of the social wars, she does not treat the world of working and ordinary people as one inhabited by noble savages, or utopian beings. Instead, she is often at pains to point out that they do not do it to us, but instead, it is often we do it to ourselves. That the war on Humanism that the conservative movement has preached, ends up, of course, being both a war on humans, and a war on our own humanity.
Related posts:
- Barbara Ehrenreich Endorses Alan Grayson Campign to Reform the Fed
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Rana Husseini, Murder in the Name of Honor
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes William Greider, Come Home America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Paul Starobin, After America: Narratives for the Next Global Age
- FDL Book Salon – The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized The American Right





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Barbara, welcome to the Lake.
Stirling thank you for Hosting today’s book salon.
Glad to be with you!
Hello everyone, I am sure there is going to be a great deal to talk about, since the book covers almost every feature of every day life and work in George Bush’s America.
That’s a problem for me sometimes. On my book tour, people seemed to think they could ask me anything.
Stirling and Barbara, welcome to FDL!
Bev, again thanks for all your work in getting us such wonderful authors and hosts.
And FUBAR does seem to be a rather apt description to what we are facing as a country and society.
Greetings Barbara, hello Stirling
Why are we in this handbasket and where are we going?
is there anything the Bush Administration has done right?
Hi, Barbara from, ummm, barbara.
I saw you at “Take Back America” last spring, discussing the new golden age on a panel that included Bill Gates Sr. You were a model of restraint. But I love the way you tackle the meat and potatoes issues head on. I think that’s why people feel they/we can ask you anything — because you seem real. After more than seven years of phony and surface and inaccesibility, that’s mighty refreshing.
Everyone – please remember to Refresh your browsers regularly.
Quick answer: We let too much of our nation’s wealth flow into the hands of a tiny minority of the super-rich, and they squandered, gambled and otherwise blew it.
Welcome Barbara. Appreciate your approach and noble works.
It is amazing how “distracted/apathetic/in denial/in despair” citizens are about the gross injustices being perpetrated by this administration, and by our compromised Congress — where is the sense of outrage? There are so many “fresh hells” even for we weekend activists …. hard to sustain a focus and activism, though visiting FDL and other dedicated blogsites and reading honest books like yours helps keep us inspired.
Hi Barbara, thanks for the kind words. I guess you’re saying I’m blunt.
Just read a 7/19 essay in, of all places, the WSJ, with the title, “Why no outrage?” and talking about passive Americans have become.
I guess I am talking about SUSTAINED outrage.
Barbara, in your various books, you have seen a great deal of the small cruelties that make up work life in the present. What was the most poignant one that you have encountered?
The MSM is all caught up in gamesmanship, lusting after power brokers, even if they are slime like Rove. So they are no help offering commentary we are in desperate need of since the checks and balances have been so compromised.
Right, the WSJ writer, James Grant, contrasted today’s numbness to the popular resistance in the 30s, which I’ve been looking into today.
Stirling: Maybe not the most poignant, but the most outrageous is “wage theft”– making people work w/o pay.
It is maybe “learned helplessness”. Just started reading the Shock Doctrine … and there is big scale shock and awe, and there is perhaps low-grade shock and awe that erodes the spirit and encourages little critical thinking but a kind of desperate narcissism… I need to focus on my collapsing world so no time to rally with others.
Theft continued: A couple weeks ago, about 50 Indian workers who had been trafficked to the US and treated as slaves in Mississippi rallied in DC. But wage theft happens to native-born Americans too — eg, at Wal-Mart.
Libby: But Americans werent always like that. We have a fine tradition of collective action in response to things like foreclosures.
I am a HUGE fan of Ms.Ehrenreich……….mad props to you!
Well, workers caught in those situations are surely not helped when Elaine Chao, aka Mrs Mitch McConnell is Labor Secretary of a Labor Department that is blowing off wage investigations until the SoL runs out.
But since Mitch is the Senior Senator from Big Bidness, they just keep the corruption in the family.
Let’s talk about wage theft then. How do companies and individuals get away with it. We’ve all heard stories of people being locked in Wal-Mart. What other ways do you see it done?
new meaning to the phrase Ugly American
“Props,” Sadlyyes?
Dakine: True, the govt has been the pocket of the big employers. Maybe we could change that a little w/ an Obama presidency.
What has happened from then and now?
What a wonderful introduction, thank you for joining us today Stirling.
I only just received your book, Ms Ehrenreich, so please forgive me if you covered this, but have you any prescriptions for what ails American society? I am all for confiscatory taxes, nationalizing resource extraction and development, and single payer health care — but I don’t know if even that set of heresies will get us where we need to be….
How do you see America digging ourselves out of this hole the oligarchs had us put ourselves in? Or do you?
Thanks for writing this book, and for your conversation here today!
Lots of forms of wage theft: eg, being forced to start work 30 min before the clock starts running (for hours worked), as I reported of my maid job in Nickel and Dimed. THe New Press will be publishing a whole book on wage theft soon.
Well, another form of ‘wage theft’ is companies taking their payrolled employees and handing them and the payrolls over to temporary/staffing services. One day, these people are payrolled employees and perhaps have benefits and so on. The next day, they are just agency temps and they may be scheduled in such a way that they can’t even qualify for whatever socalled benefits the agency says they provide to full time workers.
Teddy: My book is not about solutions. Well, I have a few, in a satirical vein, like universal veterinary care for all Americans (it would be a lot better than what many of us are getting.)
Very interesting, Toby, did it happen to you?
A friend’s bosses sent an email last week: no more paid breaks. Sure, it’s illegal as hell, but who are you going to complain to, the State Wage & Hour Board? They are more worried this week about maintaining their own salaries in the light of the Governator’s threat to pay all state employees $6.55/hour, a perfect example of wage theft on a grand scale.
If all workers are made to feel their jobs are a privilege and at great risk of loss, people will put up with a lot and not complain. The Owners, of course, count on this.
thanks you, ms ehrenreich, for coming to talk to us today.
when our government is stacked against the working stiff and in favor of the wealthy getting wealthier how can we break through and force our government to make the necessary changes to protect we, the people, instead of corporations?
That old documentary, the Corporation talks about the corporation being a “legal person” and if that “person” were psychologically analyzed, it would be that of a psychopath, totally obsessed with its own gain with no moral capacity. The bottom line.
I have read that the reason socio or psychopaths get away with so much is that their violations are on such a BROAD scale, people are overwhelmed to grasp the dimensions of such hubris and evil.
People need to trust an “in loco parentis” government and workplace… and want the most authoritarian entity to be the trustworthy one.
Listening to the repub congressmen making fun of wild-talk of Bush having committed high crimes and misdemeanors. That defensiveness straining to MINIMIZE and DENY what has happened.
I though that, and the food stamps for soldiers were two of the most pointed examples in the book, yes.
props
Slang for compliments or statements of thanks, implying esteem for a work colleague. For example, “Mad props to Chris for being such a positive, promotional force in the planning of the party.” It can also be a synonym for “friends,” as in, “I’ve got my props with me, and they’ll back me up if I need them.” Props can also be proper respect, as in, “The class gave me props during my presentation.”
see also: you’re good
NetLingo Classification: Online Jargon
—————–
i have enlightened my hero…………sigh
Good point, Ted: We are made to feel that they “give” us jobs — like some kind of special favor– when in fact workers give their time, health and lives.
Suzanne: Same ways they always have– by organizing, protesting, and electing new leaders.
I do like the contrasts you talk about: cosmetic surgery on demand vs. no health care for so many; private jet travel vs. inconvenient buses for working folks. Do you think we’ll ever have a governing class again who is close to real Americans and the real problems they face?
Watched it happen here locally. A large employer locally did it over several years with specific departments – first it was the facilities folks, then it was A/P, then other accounting departments. I also(ahem) ‘did time’ marketing for a staffing service and we used to get approached fairly regularly to provide this service(we would not do it, but there were others that would). Companies saw it as a way for them to reduce their workers comp costs, since all that would be left at the company would be the management(which at the time cost $.54 a hundred vs. manufacturing workers who could cost in the dollars per hundred depending on what they were doing and what the employer’s accident history was).
I have read that the reason socio or psychopaths get away with so much is that their violations are on such a BROAD scale, people are overwhelmed to grasp the dimensions of such hubris and evil
so true…Hitleresque
the average person can NOT contemplate the scale of evil,for their fellow man
Yeah, I saw “the corporation,” whcih was excellent. But remember that it’s US capitalism that has gotten most wildly psychotic. We don’t have much by way of countervailing forces — regualations, trade unions etc.
Or they outsource and send the work to India, where you know they are probably underpaying the Indians for their work, too. Lose/Lose.
When my last job outsourced my department they called us all together and told us how outsourcing was helping them. Even had charts to show us how it was necessary for the good of the company as we all sat with jaws hanging open. The liaison guy between the management and us little guys didn’t even know enough to say “I’m sorry” to us (which would have been modestly human), some people who had been there for 20 years even. Incredible.
Libby makes a great point, the dehumanization, and the disconnect, can be incredible. As if a company explaining why making a business decision was the appropriate action to take in that situation. What was who thinking?
Libby: Interesting that you were supposed to applaud your own outsourcing as a smart move for the company.
im thinking Europeans,Asians and others love being heavily invested here,however
Republicans break out in hives over the word “regulation”. Need to fix foreclosure problem with some government interference… but I bet will avoid using the word “regulation.”
“Free market” has such nice connotations.. free market without any restrictions is blank check for economic rape it seems like.
What frustrates me is the difficulty in getting white collar workers to stand up for themsleves in the face of outsourcing, downsizing etcc. 2 yrs I helped start an organization for laid off and anxious white collar people and it has been slow work getting them to join (see unitedprofessionals.org.)
and then there is this….people are desperate
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..eclos.html
I got laid off from one job twenty or so years ago. The company picnic was scheduled for Thursday and the layoff happened Tuesday.
“But you can still come to the picnic.”
Thank you, Barbara. And you know the guy who addressed us probably got BIG BUCKS for his “role” in the company, as hatchet man. So very amiable and expected us to nod and smile as he gushed about what it all meant to THEM.
But we’re getting to the point — certainly in the finance sector– where the insiders begin to crave some regulations as they realize there are just no grownups around, unless you count Bernanke.
So you get laid off, what do you do? Just slink away? In the 30s, I learned today, people organized themselves into “unemployed councils” to fight for their interests.
On a literary note: Am just finishing a novel called Personal Days, which is about downsizing. Highly recommended.
What I have seen – and it’s seemingly at every level because I hear the words coming out of the mouths of coworkers – is an almost Dickensian attitude of “If you were any good, you’d be like me” or “People get into those situations because they are (pick one) poor, stupid, bad, etc.” Another one is “It’s your own fault”(OK, and what about that? Making a mistake or a stupid decision means that you are doomed? Michael Milken wasn’t doomed) and “there’s nothing I can do to help – they’ll only waste it – so I won’t bother.” People forget that not too long ago, most of our ancestors came over in steerage and it was only because they got help from family or someone gave them a lucky break or whatever that they were able to get a little job, work, save a little and move up. Not now…no one wants to help anyone now.
Where do you think that culture of not taking things lying down went?
hard to stand up for yourself when ya keep getting smacked back down. corporate america seems to think that workers are expendable and interchangeable – there seems to be a corporate attitude that discourages workers from even trying because one will be fired or reorganized or downsized or a myriad of other corporate actions to sweep those concerns off the table.
hard to put food on the table for the family when being right means you are out of a job.
When I researched my book Bait and Switch, on wh collar unemployment, I saw the laid-off constantly being told that whatever happens to them is a result of their “attitude.”
Economic fear is so primal and paralyzing.
Often times, white collar workers are (mis) classified as “managers” or some level of exempt/professional staff just so the corp can avoid anything having to do with OT and actual pay for work hours performed.
There was one inspiring example of fighting back in April, when truck drivers protested high diesel costs in DC. Totally grassroots ex of “not taking it anymore” spirit!
Ms. Ehrenreich a great honor to have you here at FDL.
with the demonization of unions, Stirling.
Hi Stirling! So nice to see you here. Welcome, Barbara.
Women are getting even more short sticks than ever before. We’ve always had a harder time than men getting jobs and getting paid properly for them, but women are falling out of the work force faster and faster these days.
What do you think of our (California’s) Fearless Leader calling for all state employees wages to fall to $6.55 an hour? A form of wage theft, I dare say. I can’t believe, I just can’t that he is serious about it.
Thanks, Barbara, for all you do to expose what regular old working folks go through every day. You are a hero.
What is going on in France now… changing the legislated 35 hour work week (is it?) to letting the companies “contract with employees” …. that sounds like some serious erosion of protection. So “France can be more competitive”? What do you think of that?
I think the greatest fear is at lower wage levels where people have zero cushion if they have to go 3-4 weeks looking for work. Yet I find enormous fear too at 6-figure levels. I guess your being an obedient submissive employee is like having a good credit rating.
I am amazed at the immunity from the marketplace seen by CEO’s salaries. Rick Wagoner, chairman of GM, just got a 40% salary increase to more than fifteen million a year, presumably for his vision of making Escalades for folks to live in when their homes are repossessed. The president of Ford, Allan Mullaly, came from Boeing, where he presided over the continuing ten-year-long stillbirth of the DreamLiner.
Do you think there is any corrective to this except corporate raiding?
alas, though, there was corruption in certain unions, too, in our history… and politization (?) against the common good.
Wait a minute, the Governator actually wants all state employees to work at the min wage?
$6.55 an hour is $13,624 a year…what’s considered ‘poverty’?
but what did it accomplish? diesel continued to rise and every truckdriver who was protesting had to go back to taking it and diesel continued to rise.
Why when companies go bankrupt do the guys who drove the companies off the cliffs float down with big fat golden parachutes and other people lose their jobs and pensions and crash and burn?
Teddy: Also consider Robt Nardelli’s $210 million golden parachute after being fired as CEO of Home Depot. Wish I could fail so spectacularly!
Remember our friend Reagan, when traffic controllers bonded? Wow.
Remember Dickens – people at the top are ‘good’. People at the bottom..deserve to be there because they are ‘bad’. if they were ‘good’ – they’d be at the top.
Schwarzenegger wants Fed minimum wage for state employees in budget showdown. Basically, if he doesn’t get his way, then until he does, FEDERAL minimum wage, not state.
Toby: Big arugments about how to define poverty level. But for more than one person, $6.55 is definitely so.
Suzanne: Truckers will continue their protests at RNC and DNC. Point is, we will be pushed down and down until someone gets on their hind legs!
Yes, all employees. At first, I thought just all min wage employees, but it extends to all employees. The comptroller, John Chiang (good Dem) has refused to do it, and I can’t help but think it’s all kabuki, but since the lege didn’t pass the budget by July 1, the Gov. can legally do it, at least until the budget is passed (that’s my understanding, anyway).
And yet he won’t get rid of the Yacht Tax loophole – if your yacht is delivered to you outside the three mile limit, that is, in mid-ocean, you don’t have to pay luxury tax on it.
The federal minimum wage, at that, which is almost two dollars lower than our CA wage.
more here
and here
With the added irony that PATCO was one of only two unions that backed Reagan. (Teamsters being the other)
And Americans do have that puritan ethic, raise yourself up by your own bootstraps. Fierce pride which invites shame when economic going gets rougth.
But is protesting the immediate pain really effective? Oil prices are high because of a generation of not paying for investment, and pushing them down temporarily is of no use unless at the same time a long term plan is put in place.
Speaking of shame, did you read about the MA woman who killed herself last week just as she was being foreclosed/evicted?
Remember in the nineties, when companies allowed you to “bank” your sick time in order to lend it to folks who might need more than their “share?” Do companies still do that? It seemed like a rather human thing to do, and I figured it probably was swept away by all the compassionate conservatism.
The laissez faire attitude at the top is also corrupting the work ethic which is resulting in poorer workmanship, less quality control. And of course with Bushco, so little monitoring and accountability. Look at the air force admirals being fired about sloppiness with nuclear weaponry.
Look at the disaster capitalism… where “deals” are made with chronies and it is not about quality and fairness.
Truckers are doing a lot of thinking about longterm– fuel efficient trucks, etc.
We need to support protests like theirs because it shows Them (the big guys) that we will not all roll over.
I think it was the CEO of Freddie Mac who is walking with a pay for the last year of $19M plus.
Ya gotta have some serious talent to drive these companies into a bankruptcy requiring a gov’t bailout cuz “they’re too big to fail.”
so workers who are getting the shaft should just lie back and enjoy it since its gonna happen anyway and saying anything about it will just get ya fired?
Libby: Not to mention hiring people on basis of “personality” rather than experience or skills…
Look at the suicides after the crash in the 20s. A lot of sad stories out there.
sadlyyes linked to that story @ comment #48 @ 2:43 FDL time
Bail outs raise issue of nationalization. Maybe Fannie and Freddy should be govt-run, if we’re gonna have to pay for their errors now. Maybe the airlines should also be nationalized and treated as a public utility. (Tho I wouldnt want the current federal govt running anything important!)
personality and “political clubs”. “Heckuva a job, Brownism.” Featherbedding? Is that what they used to call it?
And there’ve been 10s of 100s of debt-induced suicides among Indian farmers. Not, I think, the most effective form of resistance.
In the “Smashing Capitalism” essay, Barbara pulls together how people with month left at the end of their money simply are not able to keep up with debt. In recent months it has become clear that the whole system of selling houses, where realtors, loan officers and others who sold the houses to people, based on the personal bond of contact, were essentially pedaling a high risk investment packaged to be sold globally.
One of the themes in the book that crops up again and again is how people are expected to be relentlessly positive and on message to sell things to the people they come in contact with, while not having any real stake, beyond this week’s paycheck, in what happens.
The bonds of personal trust themselves are being pressed into economic service. Everyone, it seems, is becoming a cheerleader or con man.
Stirling: I think we’ve been living, or expected to live, ina bubble of delusion: The economy’s great! The war’s going fine! Only “whiners” aren’t totally happy about it all.
Over in India, the city workers are enjoying entering the middle class, and the farmers are committing suicide out in the fields because they cannot survive.
The “Family of Man” needs to get it together.
Well, it is an improvement from “shrill”.
With credit card debt most of us are tiptoeing on thin ice. One Day At A Time living with shallow breathing.
Stirling: Is it? I would guess that a lot of people are held in line by ther fear of being seen as “negative.” America’s #1 evangelical preacher, Joel Osteen, warns not to associate w/ “negative” people.
Preznit Catapult-the-Propaganda was a cheerleader, remember, and his team is all about the marketing and propagandizing.
Speaking of which, Osteen provides social support for families that the government used to, but now they cultivate a religious and political leaning, a loyalty to the Christian right, rather than feeling entitled and taken care of by their government and their own taxes.
So how do we wake up from this? I wonder how much the current economic crisis is challenging the corporate smiley-face culture.
Barbara @ 91: before the Civil Aeronautics Board was eliminated in 1979 the legacy airlines WERE run essentially as a public utility, and everything from routes to fares had to go through the CAB. Since deregulation in 1979, the airline industry has become a lot less public-utility oriented, as we’ve all seen.
One of our local airlines (Trans States, which operates as American Connection) continually advertises for flight crews. They aren’t paying very much for FAs, and I understand the pilots work pretty much for peanuts also.
I’ve just found out that at a local nursing home, where they used to pay fairly good wages for techs, they are now paying new hires only $7/hour. So if you leave for some reason and then get rehired, you lose a lot of money.
It used to be just the opposite. People would leave and when they came back, they’d get a higher starting wage.
So you don’t dare try for a better job elsewhere.
And I just got a letter today from store saying its credit card (not Visa, etc) but individual store, will be charging a 22.5 rate on partial payments. 22.5: Any one going down that road likely never catch up on the credit trap. Disgraceful. Arguement on Moyers last week that usury should be illegal. What a thought.
I have an essay on that phenom in my book, This Land Is Their Land — how the evang churches have become social service centers filling in where govt leaves off — while of course supporting rt wing candidates who want to end public, secular, social services.
I once tried to argue w/ my bank about the sin of usury. They weren’t too receptive.
My Dad used to complain about “highway robbery” all the time and we used to laugh at him. His favorite phrase. It is so outrageous.
I taught on Camp Pendleton for many years and was astounded to see how poorly the enlisted folks live. The fact that they earn so little should be a Dana Priest type superstory. Unbelievable.
In a strange way, they feel “taken care of” in that they have housing provided, medical and dental provided, and lots of community. But, they are dirt poor.
I will look for that. Thanks, Barbara. We wonder where the hearts and minds are? They are being seduced by the social conservatives.
The people need support from somewhere … but it is scary stuff the power of the pulpit now… and the borderlessness between church and state.
Also got an essay on military poverty in the book. Historically, it’s anomalous, since most nations — eg, Prussia, the UK — realized you have to reward the class that provides the soldiers with, at least, a decent safety net. We don’t.
Actually, it’s probably even worse than you remember as the very lowest ranking folks generally don’t have enough rank to get on base housing so are forced into hovels around the base. This is across the board at most all military installations as well.
You did sign the Courage Campaign petition, no?
So get guys like Timothy McVeigh, who returned from Iraq to a $6/hr job…
what is this campaign?
Not all CA employees, just the ones who are already the lowest earners. The rest of us will get no raise, so that’s really a cut with the inflation…
btw, the highly recommended downsizing novel is Personal Days, by Ed Park.
Our District still has it. I banked enough days early on that I’m covered. Now I save my sick days for an earlier retirement!
Retirement: Now there’s a concept! Does anyone actually retire any more?
But they are volunteers, as Fourth Branch continually reminds us….
I don’t think this volunteer argument is going to hold for very long, especially since this war’s being fought on the backs of our national guard and reserves. The families involved didn’t really think they were going to be treated so badly. And they seem quite tired of it.
I’m starting to think we’ll need a third party. Unless the dems surprise us…they’ve really got a plan once Obama is elected…the criminals are charged…the rich pay their share of their taxes….
Either that or we buckle down and get rid of the offensive dems through primary fights.
Volunteers or economic draftees?
Right now I don’t sense much urgency from Obama about these economic issues. We’re going to have to be more obstreperous!
OK..so, what do we do? We’re already at one another’s throats on a worldwide basis? It’s not as if we are in a position to negotiate with management over their outsourcing jobs.
To stop Schwartzenegger from reducing pay to fed min wage. I don’t think you have to be in CA to sign, but there is a pretty famous zip code people could use…
The last section of the book is observations on religion. What do you think the role of faith and religion in all of this is. Is there the possibility of a Christian left, as you imply in one essay?
I’ve asked this SO many times that some of you are probably sick of it, but why are there no massive protests? Hell, if the Latinos/immigrants could pull off what they did in May of 2006, why can’t we do something 10 times that size?
I’m looking for a leader!
How about legislation making corp’s accountable for their outsourcing and downsizings? Some (capitalist) countries do it.
There IS a Christian left. And actually the Xian Rt is in decline right now, w/ more young evangelicals wanting to deal w/ global warming and poverty, not just fixate on abortion and stem cellls.
When I was a kid (I’m 55), religion was a private matter. One didn’t ask someone what church they attended. No fishies on the carsies.
We strike. We buy nothing we don’t need. We start carpooling. We start organizing neighborhood watches for crime prevention (crime is way up) and to help neighbors in trouble who need food, etc. If we can become a nation of communities and begin to understand we are not alone and we cannot solve it alone then life will become more healthy in many ways. We turn of the television and get out in the community. Talk to your neighbors!
I’m non-religious, but a great admirer of Jesus, the activist and preacher against injustice, so I’m always thrilled to hear of genuine Christians.
Like Bill Moyers. Walks the walk. Talks the talk.
Excellent plan, Mary! I’ve been thinking about the niegborhood groups since at least Katrina. There’s a real need to have support systems and people you can turn to in case of unemployment and whatever disaster comes along.
Dr. Lawrence Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to fascism. Here are four of them which relate to what we are talking about today:
how the evang churches have become social service centers filling in where govt leaves off — while of course supporting rt wing candidates who want to end public, secular, social services.
I believe I read this chapter in Harper’s. What struck me was just how long term unhelpful this is because the church wasn’t necessarily going to tell the workers to fight back and stand up for their rights.
I also think about how the people within the corporations can fight back in the entire structure. Now of course they don’t want to fight their OWN company, but they CAN push to fight for things for other companies. I’m thinking about how the airlines all decided to go after the Oil Speculators demanding regulation. So this is a way to get the things you want (regulation) while at the same time helping the company that you are tied to for the “benefits”. Now of course if you are the Oil Speculators you could push for some regulations on the Airlines so that they don’t make the lives of the passengers unsafe with too little fuel.
I think of it as setting the corporations against each other for our good.
Barbara, Thank you very much for stopping by the Lake today and spending the afternoon.
Stirling, thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Everyone – this is a good time to buy Barbara’s book if you haven’t already.
There is a link above. Keep an eye out for Barbara’s new book, Personal Days.
Thanks all.
Well thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion. You’ve made a lot of really interesting points. Hope you get a chance to read my book and visit my website, barbaraehrenreich.com. Not to mention unitedprofessionals.org, for all you mistreated white collar folks. Good night!
exactly, Mary…talk to your neighbors. how many of us do not know our neighbors? How many of us don’t WANT to know our neighbors? This winter is going to be very bad, esp for people who live in the country. Electric and heating bills are going to go way up. The Senate could not get an increase in the heating help program today. There are states which are already in the hole from LAST winter. It’s time for us to stop looking into the mirror and start looking down the street for people who need help.
Barbara, thank you for taking on these issues and reporting them in such a thought provoking manner.
Thank you, this was a wonderful discussion to lurk along with.
Thanks Stirling, you’re a great Book Salon host, and thanks to you, too, Bev.
We are having a crime wave in my neighborhood. We also have five houses in four blocks in default. I am organizing a neighborhood watch and we are going to pool our resources in several ways. One way is to keep an eye out on the elderly. Several old men passed away this year and their wives need to know we are watching out for them. We are also installing video cameras along two blocks and posting signs stating such. (The fat cats are spying on us and we are spying on the little crooks) The best thing that has happened is this wonderful feeling of having friends all around us.
Ian Welsh is upstairs!
Republicans Vote Against Lower Oil and Gas Prices and for Illegal Immigration and More American Troop Deaths
Thanks so much, Barbara and Stirling. (love your name Stirling!)
Thanks, Barbara and Stirling and Bev!
Is Personal Days written by you, Barbara? I thought you mentioned an Ed Park?
I have read elsewhere that this week’s gaffe-free foreign trip, having inoculated Obama on CinC test and the looking-Presidential test, will allow him to concentrate on economic issues. I sure hope our nominee gets a call from John and Elizabeth Edwards soon, reminding him about his promises about poverty, health care, and hunger in America.
It’s time for him to start talking about that stuff.
Was it New Hampshire that took Chavez’ offer for free oil? Good for them!
Loo Hoo. Question. Are massive protests effective? I always ask myself the question. “What will it get to either get someone to change or force someone to change.”
A protest can raise awareness and maybe even change minds, but I often look at history and try and see what it ACTUALLY was that made the change happen. Protest was often part of it but not the only piece.
I try and put myself in the shoes of the people doing what they are doing and ask, “What will take for them to change?” Can they be persuaded? If so, how? If not why not? Then can they be forced? How? What will it take to force them to change. What is the fulcrum? It’s not the same for every situation.
When I went to the advertisers of the Disney station K S F O I tried to think what would stop them from supporting these hosts. And I knew that there were things that they SAID that they believed in that was in conflict with these hosts. Now some could say that they are meaningless BS mission statements, but they are also things that might get them in trouble LEGALLY if say for example they support people are are pro-discrimination.
It tried to give them multiple reasons both hard and soft to not support these people.
This has been a great discussion, I want to remind everyone that if you want to help FireDogLake, to use the links on the site to purchase Barbara’s books so that part of the proceeds will go to help supporting the site.
Thank you, Barbara, Stirling and Bev for another great Book Salon!
Spocko, I followed your work on Disney. That was excellent work.
I think massive rallies-apart from achieving something instantaneously-give people a feeling of community. The I am Not Alone sense that we all need. Add some music, some flags/armbands/leading speakers and people will more inclined to vote the right way. They will “belong”.
Just my sense from back in the day.