Morning.

Posts are getting shorter and shorter these days. Something up?

And what about that wedding party in Afghanistan where we killed 47 people a couple of weeks ago? Careful targeting?

Funny how hearts and minds are not won by bombing civilians, but somehow the U.S. still does it.

Good morning, Scarecrow.

When will someone ask McCain which wars he has won? (Besides the War on Truth?)

Mornin’, Scarecrow. We do need to help the Afghanis get their country put back together but military force isn’t the answer. Air strikes, always the military’s favourite tactic to avoid US casualties, certainly aren’t going to do it.

Mornin’, RevDeb. I’ve noticed that too.

McCain can’t even say what winning means.

Yeah….what wars has Johnny McTeleprompter won?!!!!!

Relying primarily on air power necessarily means civilians will be killed and injured. It is “torture” turned collective. The idea is to inflict so much pain on a population generally, it will come around. The “success” of the surge in Iraq is a case in point. Not only can’t the Iraqis prevail without American air support, it is likely the reduced violence is more the result of Iraqis waiting for the results of our election, then a reflection of anything on the ground. Bombs dropped from above is a particularly nasty means of waging war and to date has been spectacularly unsuccessful. Afghanistan will be especially resistant. Ask the British and the Russians.

And don’t forget that Wesley Clark loves to bomb.

Morning
I wonder how many times McSame would want to demonstrate his alledged skill if he were to wind up in the white house. Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, Venezuela, Chezchoslovakia?

I have also noticed that the posts have been very brief lately, and am curious if this is a permanent change in style or (as I hope) simply a fluke.

The Times article explains that when we’ve been tracking some target for some time, the rules of engagement are more strict and killing civilians less likely; but when we’re doing immediate support for ground forces in firefights, then the rules become losser, and that’s when most of the casualties occur, hence the recent spate of stories of civilians getting bombed.

The article doesn’t say so, but the value of a civilian’s life goes up or down depending on the value of the target they’re focsused on.

I don’t think there’s anything different about this from prior wars — maybe it’s even better — but this article seems intended to tell Americans, don’t worry, we’re being careful, and stuff happens — except it happens to Afghanis and Iraqis.

I wish I wrote that well said:)

the reason we don’t have too many targeting restrictions in Iraq is that the very reason for this administration to be there at all is to create unrest, they want insurgents

here’s what’s going on;

they DO NOT want the Iraqi oil fields owned by the government of Iraq, they want them owned and run by private industry

once the oil fields are run privately the oil companies set the rules and they set the rules according to profit for the few people at the top

when a government runs the fields the only concern is efficiency, how to help the most people in the country, how to use the assets to build the infrastructure and secure the nation, there is no profit model there is a result model

this administration does NOT want the free flow of these assets, they want their friends to control the flow, to do as little as possible at the largest profit possible for the few people who will take advantage of that model

I left you a reply downstairs with a linky…

The Times needs to tell that to the families of those killed by us. I’m sure they’ll understand.

Maybe Blackwater is getting out of the Merc business because they can’t kill Iraqis like they used too?

yeah, and we can make and change the rules any time we want because we’re America! And we’re in charge.

It used to be that the world could trust us to make the right decisions and the right rules because we were thought to be humanitarians at heart. Now we’re run by people with no heart and no humanity and the rest of the world knows it.

I am so ashamed of this country.

Which was the primary reason the NYT spiked his op-ed.

I am not liking the fact that barak is conceeding this surge has had any kind of success, he is uninformed for saying it

we have had success wherever we have left, we fueled the insurgency and the surge only prolonged achieving what success we could have had, it surely didn’t cause it

success is leaving, success is not staying in Iraq

Contrary to popular belief, the only war the United States has won in the last hundred years was the war in the Pacific against Japan, and even there, the main reason was that most of the Japanese army was immobilized by the Occupation of China. The heavy lifting in Europe was done by the Soviet army, which broke the back of the German military in June-July 1944. As to the First World War, the threat of millions of American troops certainly caused an exhausted Germany to seek a truce, but again the damage to their army occurred in the previous four years. As to Korea, it was a tie, and Vietnam was a defeat.

The long and short of it is that when you look at the record, we don’t know how to win wars any more than any other country. We were lucky to have immense resources at a time when the kind of resources we had were vital to military success: a large population, and a huge industrial establishment. Those advantages count for less today.

America’s misreading of its past, like Germany’s misreading of her past is extremely dangerous, for us and the rest of the world. In my view, it perhaps the most dangerous fact of modern history. It will take time and let’s hope not utter defeat, for Americans to come to gripos with it.

The US unwillingness to participate in the cluster bomb ban treaty is particularly telling

and the ability to broker fair treaties is gone, as well as the ability to even broker a treaty at all

any country that enters into a treaty with America now has precedent to change the treaty and redefine terms any time they want and they will not be in violation

the damage done by this moronic despot and his puppeteers cannot possibly be measured

Does John McCain know how to “win” an occupation? Can they be won, or just ended? Would McCain (or Obama) end the occupation of Iraq? When?

Morning Scarecrow
what wars has McCain won?

Nor will we abide by land mine restrictions. Both types of munitions kill far more innocents than they do combatants.

I suspect it has something to do with the Iraqi insistence that they have legal jurisdiction of contract security people who commit crimes in Iraq. That and Congress’ investigations. Not good for stock prices.

The US unwillingness to participate in the cluster bomb ban treaty is particularly telling

exactly. and to that i would add the use of depleted uranium.

the propaganda about targeting, smart bombs, etc is just that – propaganda. or even more correctly, damn lies.

Anyone notice the news last night that Russia is moving bombers into Cuba in response to the NATO missle sheild in Europe

I left you a reply too:)

do you have a link for that?

Was on Keith Oberman

Contrary to popular belief, the only war the United States has won in the last hundred years was the war in the Pacific against Japan

there IS NO WAY to “win” a war

even if you prevail you are left with an occupation and if you are occupying against their will you will have insurgents forever

the ONLY thing that can happen after a war is NEGOTIATED peace

there are four options;

1) the people fall in love with you and do everything you want them to do, since you were at war with the people, this is not a likely scenario

2) you annialate the people and there is no insurgency

3) you negotiate the peace that allows you to leave the occupation with some promise

those are the choices, but once you alienate the populace by allowing their infarstructure to fall apart, by creating programs that allow torture, you will never ever and can never ever have the winning solution in my number one

the real thing here is that the adminsitration knew this, there was a plan for successful occupation that would have been welcomed by the Iraqi’s, it included leaving as soon as possible, but this adminstration didn’t want success, they wanted their friends to own the oil reserves and the only way to make that happen is by insuring the failure of an independant Iraq until they sercured the rights to that oil

occupations can’t be won, you annialate the populace or you negotiate a peace

Interesting Thesis flesh it out more and put it in a diary. When we get the Diaries.

add the World Court to that too.

But we know why W. and Darth et all would never have signed on to that, don’t we?

Don’t forget landmines

US general warns Russia on nuclear bombers in Cuba

The clips I saw last night were not conceding that point, but I didn’t see all the shows. He said the Sunni Awakening and al Maliki’s ability to deal with Shia militia were more responsible, and that these might have happened w/out the surge. That’s what set off McCain,who insisted the surge made the Awakening happen/succeeed, a statement which by last night was being reported as worse than a gaffe – just plain wrong — since the Awakening started back in 2006, before the 2006 midterm elections and months before Bush announced the surge.

That leaves the McCain camp defending two issues today:

1. His misrepresentation of what the surge wrt to the Awakening, and

2. His statement that Obama would rather lose a war in order to advance his campaign. Joe Klein now calling that one of the most scurrulous political attacks ever.

I’d be glad to see their stock certificates turn into nothing more than toilet paper.

Oh thanks
Here we go again.

Yeah But I don’t have TV has the MSM noticed? And are not those bombers capable of carrying Nukes? Nuclear anything in Cuba should ring some bells

Didn’t you know? McCain has conquered his own inner demons. That’s why he’s remained calm and coheren throughout this campaign.

Given the angry reactions from his campaign this week, and his own statements, I’d say the guy is about to be labeled too unstable to be President. Watch for op eds that talk about his “temperment.”

Who was it that said, “saying you can ‘win’ a war is like saying you can win an earthquake.”

Of course that being said, the Iraq war ended years ago when Saddam Hussein’s Baathist government was toppled. What we’ve been involved in since is an occupation — as I’m sure everyone reading this blog realizes, but unfortunately the corporate media keeps pushing the meme that this is a war so Republicans can frame “bring-them-home” Democrats as “surrender-monkeys.”

McCain Knows how to win wars.
Bomb, bomb, bomb, Cuba & Russia

The clips I saw last night were not conceding that point, but I didn’t see all the shows. He said the Sunni Awakening and al Maliki’s ability to deal with Shia militia were more responsible, and that these might have happened w/out the surge.

I would have preferred him to say they would have happened more preciptitously WITHOUT the surge, that the surge fueled more insurgents

anyway, off to work, thax for the piece this morning scarecrow

Blackwater is a private company no public listing of how they are doing:(
Dang I love watching a GOP company’s stock price stay flat or go down during the Bush years.

War is a process that ends in armistice, surrender or, as in the case of Vietnam where distance the invader with space to back down, retreat. The Japanese surrendered. That strikes me as sufficient evidence for having won the trial by battle.

“Show text” isn’t working. I’m sure the techies are on it.

Yep. Can you imagine another Cuban missile crisis, only this time Dick Cheney is in charge, or bomb,bomb McCain?

The Obama campaign so far lacks the killer instinct to take out McCain, but there’s an argument sitting there that he and the neocon crowd advising him and Cheney are so reckless they can’t be allowed near the WH — but no one is making that argument. Where is Lyndon Johnson?

But what he can say is that Obama is willing to lose the war to win the election. What an appalling comment from an increasingly appalling man who is yoked to an appalling party. McSenior and Company become more vicious in sync with growing desperation.

Didn’t you know? McCain has conquered his own inner demons.

yeah, that’s a war he’s won. lol.

So if it becomes too obvious for the MSM to ignore that McCain is wholly incompetent, does that mean someone else could be nominated at the convention to run as the Republican candidate?

lots of things aren’t working. Hamsters or attacks—who knows?

Russia wants Bush to give up that strategic defense missile shield for Europe, long range bombers in Cuba are just a hint…but Bush doesn’t take hints so Russia will up the ante.
How and when is the question and if they do it during a presidential election how will that change things.
Will the GOP claim the cold war is on again and hope for votes.
Will we lose support in November?

What demons has McCain conquered?

The war against independent thought? The battle against his addiction to young blondes? His burning desire to crash planes?

Now that we have completely institutionalized Milo Minderbender maybe Blackwater can buy some bombers

surrender doesn’t end the war, it ends the overt battles, if you stay there will almost always be an insurgency

japan is an exception, not a rule

FDL is still trying to launch the Oxdown thingy, so folks can write diaries. It’s a major tech challenge, so in the meantime, we’re stipping the base FDL down to essentials, to minimize the problem. The missing features should return when the whole thing starts running — I haven’t seen the latest time estimate, but it’s the priority.

Well we all know Republicans have something in mind to make sure they hold onto power this Fall. We’ve got a potential war with Iran that seems more likely after the kabuki last week. There’s always the possibility of terrorist attack with uncanny timing to most effectively help Republicans and now we’ve got Cuban Missile Crisis part deux.

Add to that that more and more Americans are finding they can’t afford to drive to work or eat, and we’re going through some pretty scary times right now.

Feds raided BW in NC automatic weapons brought for the sheriff stored at BW head quarters. Change.

So, the only way we won WW2 was not by the strength of troops or our commitment but rather our choice to develop and deploy Atomic weapons and target cities to make the point. That is the exact date the USA lost it’s moral authority on anything. Think about it , this was the first time in human history were the unborn punished for the inability to settle disagreements among the living. And we wonder why we seem to always be battling someone for something.

They’ve got an awfully weak back bench. If not McThuselah, then who?

Romney?
Thompson?
Ghouliani?

If there was anyone decent hiding in the back room, they would have been dragged out during the primaries.

the Republicants aren’t much liking where they are these days. I seem to recall a line something like “as ye sow, so shall ye reap.”

Given the angry reactions from his campaign this week, and his own statements, I’d say the guy is about to be labeled too unstable to be President. Watch for op eds that talk about his “temperment.”

BAM!

This is the ninth presidential campaign I’ve covered. I can’t remember a more scurrilous statement by a major party candidate. It smacks of desperation. It renews questions about whether McCain has the right temperament for the presidency. How sad.

damn Scarecrow, you gangsta :D

Link

Just what is McCain’s plan to win in Iraq? besides say the Surge is working a Surge the American people and the Iraqis know that we can’t afford.
Granted the White House, the Press, and John McCain don’t know this but when have they been right about anything?

no biggie. we’re spoiled as it is.

The convention is a month away. I imagine Obama’s big speech will lay the groundwork for an all out assault on McSFB and the Rethug’s policies. The time between now and then is just baby-kissin’ and pressin’ the flesh. Plus, we really don’t know what the Rethugs are gonna do. McSFB may stroke or wig out before their convention. They may very well have to come up with a new candidate. Not likely, but possible. Or Obama may well start hammering him once he gets back to the States. Lots of options. Take yer pick.

my 57 was in response to nutes;

War is a process that ends in armistice, surrender or, as in the case of Vietnam where distance the invader with space to back down, retreat. The Japanese surrendered. That strikes me as sufficient evidence for having won the trial by battle.

armistice is mutual draw down of sorts, that’s not winning, surrender from your enemy is not yet winning, you will still have an occupation otherwise why did you fight at all?

japan doesn’t count because we were attacked by them, we can therefore be the victors, the attackers cannot be the victors unless the anialate the populace

The first one at least in his own mind.

There is also the notion that one nation wages war against a despot, removes the oppression and tyranny. This sounds so cool and just, but rarely is this happening. Of course when you rid the people of their dictator, you need to withdraw and let them have the government they want.

We lie about our attacks and try to caste them as liberating people from a nasty despot – Saddam. Frankly we didn’t give a hooey about what Saddam was doing. We wanted access to their oil and he was not giving it. So we waged war to take it but passed off multiple lies to try to fool world.

You know what? I’m not as old as McSenior, but old enough to be able to speak to the issue of age from some measure of experience. And I would tell you that anyone his age is in over his head. The man must be running on fumes by now, and that’s only going to get worse. Reality is that the amount of time and energy and lack of sleep and pressure and poo flinging has to take an immense toll on him. All of which is only going to get worse as we move closer to November. And if (heaven forefend) he should actually win the sucker, he is going to be declining further, day by day, hour by hour. It is the nature of things. And then add to that his imprisonment in Nam (which absolutely is in the negative column), the subsequent physical and mental smack-down from that, along with McSenior’s prickly personality . . .

Assuming he survives the campaign, his sycophants had better be deeply devoted to his VP pick, because I’m tellin’ ya, that’s who’d occupy George’s throne if Obama fails to win. Urgh.

scarecrow, they are going about it all wrong, they can easily do the diary thing with a forum program like the vbullitian

that’s probably the best format for discussion as well and I am amazed blogs don’t use a form of forum software

off to work, if you need more info on forum software, go to the vbulletin web site

JOe Klein in McCain’s “meltdown.”

Maybe we should chart McCains decline mentally he does seem to be making second term Reagen numbers on the mistakes.

Need to include his partying in that list

you did see my 62 right ?

caught hints of this last week when no less a riblicker than David Gregory had to describe his campaign as “faltering” – and coulda sworn I saw him fight back tears

say it aint so Maverick

After I commented, but thanks for finding that. I was searching for the Klein comment when you put it up.

“They” had to know this when they resurrected his candidacy. BushCo Repugs are amoral, but they’re not stupid. I can only conclude that McSenior is a sacrificial, ummm, goat. He is absolutely expendable. His rise to top o’the ticket satisfies his life dream (barbecuing in the Rose Garden), at least in the pursuit of same. But Pugs must know Pugs can’t win in 2008, so they’ve anointed someone they’re willing to help hoist himself on his own petard. The only thing wrong with my theory is that McSenior is so off the wall, he’s making the party look bad, badder, baddest. Whoda thunk they could look any worse, eh?

I started wondering yesterday if Cindy has a medical power of attorney. In the bad scenario you are describing, it gets really dicey if Cindy has POA, notes a significant decline in his functioning ability and wants to get him help at a time when the rest of the “handlers” don’t want to admit the problem. I really think appropriate treatment for Reagan was withheld during his decline for just this reason. He should have been in an Alzheimer’s facility long before the end of his term.

you mean something like this:

Alcoholic Brain Disease

Thiamin and thiamin-using enzymes are present in all cells of the body, thus, a thiamin deficiency would seem to adversely affect all of the organ systems. However, the nervous system (and heart) shows particular sensitivity to the effects of a thiamin deficiency at the cellular level.

Nerve cells and other supporting cells (such as glial cells) of the nervous system require thiamin. Examples of neurologic disorders that are linked to alcohol abuse include Wernicke’s Encephalopathy (Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome) and Korsakoff’s psychosis (alcohol amnestic disorder) as well as varying degrees of cognitive impairment.

wiki

Didn’t President Wilson have similar problems

Saddam’s fatal mistake was his demand to be paid in Euros, not dollars, for Iraq’s oil. Were that demand to become widespread amongst mid-east producers, as it may be as we continue to print dollars as fast as we can, 5.00 a gallon gas will be a happy memory.

True making the GOP look worse after Bush is a tough job.

Wonder if the Obama campaign has some shrinks working on a way to trigger a meltdown/explosion in a debate forum?

Wow! Scary scenario for the Pugs. And if Christy is right about Cindy, Mrs. McSenior is a very decent, principled person. And if she actually has lingering affection for the man who humiliated himself and her in public (who knows what goes on in private?), she may be moved to do the right thing, whatever that may be.

I think you’re spot on about Reagan.

Where is the tipping point between what’s deemed a little bit off and skittering down the slippery slope, I wonder? And who makes that decision? Which brings me back to your observation about POA.

David Gregory said that! Has reality started to invade the minds of its darkest foe?

That should be a post we have shrinks at the lake:)

Having worked in mental health for 20 years ABD is not pretty. Not only is brain function affected the body suffers as well. Sad.

I think it will come at Rick Warren’s event 8/16 -

McBush will be on what was supposed to be Republics turf but doesn’t speak the language quite as well as the other guy (who will be busy peeling off the moderates and independents)

McBush will either blow or implode with more flat jokes

Welcome to DeLurkville btw.

Well, shrinks and Carville.

And if Christy is right about Cindy

If Christy is right? Oy! When is Christy ever wrong?!

Randy Scheuneman (per NYT)

Mr. McCain’s advisers, who are seething about the extensive news coverage of Mr. Obama’s trip, went further in a conference call on Tuesday when Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy aide, sarcastically asked if Mr. Obama’s foreign policy credentials were based on his attendance at a junior high school in Indonesia or a trip he took to Pakistan during spring break in college. Mr. Scheunemann added that Mr. Obama “seems to forget that we have elections in this country, not coronations.”

Over the top, ya think?

This tells me the McCain campaign has no sense of any risk of portraying McCain as unsuited for President. His advisers popping off like this will just add fuel to that flame. Some times, have idiot neocons for advisers is good.

I want to elaborate on this thought;

japan doesn’t count because we were attacked by them

there’s another reason why the “occupation” in Iraq was a success;

we weren’t trying to overthrow their government, we weren’t trying to acquire their assets or treasure

we were securing our own peace by eliminating their ability to attack us, that is all we were doing

I only thought of this on the way to the coffee shop but japan cannot ever be mentioned as havinga parallel in Iraq for those reasons

Calling McCain a traitor would probably do it but could have a backlash

Has GWB ever spent more than a fly-in/out in Iraq and environs? Has that ever been more than a turkey dinner photo op? Could the Repugs just get over themselves and acknowledge that Obama is doing the essential groundwork, i.e., experiential learning about our war occupation zone and what is and is not working there? The reason the press “loves” Obama is because he is: (a) dignified; (b) listening; (c) learning; (d) committed to figuring out the Middle East mess from other than a throne in the Oval Office. Oh, and he has a great smile. Yes, I’m that shallow.

the riblicker Maverick love was forged in having McBush all to themselves, with the occasional Mark Salter -

they’ve never had to deal with Black, Davis, Scheunemann, Gramm, ad nauseum

Come Back Shane !

you guys are gonna love this, bush’s daddy’s security advisor smacks down the boyking, as reported on think progress;

President George H.W. Bush’s former national security advisor Brent Scowcroft warned the current president to stop threatening Iran.

where’s that from perris?

it will be interesting to see if they switch out McCain for another candidate and the convention. Romney? with Huckbee as VP to calm down the Xianists?

Here.

OT Shouldn’t Bush be going on Vacation soon? Does Bush have Reagen beat yet for the total number of vacation days?

Needs to go house-hunting with Laura (assuming she’ll have him). Read somewhere yesterday that he’s done with Crawford. What’ll happen to the wedding altar? EBay?

oh thanks, barbara

you got your choice— have him so drugged down that he won’t explode if O gave him the finger (literally or figuratively) in public, which means he will be pretty catatonic and unresponsive, or leave him alone to explode.

Either way O wins.

Would anybody notice?

emptywheel’s got
Church Committee, The Bush II Version?
for those interested

yeah, all O has to do is question McCain’s honor and POP!

Yes. Yes.

This has been the latest edition of simple answers to simple questions.

It means: “Never having to say you’re sorry.”

or Plop.

I already think they have him drugged. They’d have to up the dose in a face to face debate and catatonic would be the result. Had a discussion about this with Kirk Murphy quite a while ago on a post he wrote.

blackwater–mcclatchey had an article in june along similar lines that was from the newsobserver.com

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.c…..index.html

scarecrow–can’t remember if i posted these the other day during payne and sheuneman’s threads–

scheuneman gettin’ touchy?–well, he’s been exposed lately, probably got a sunburn from it
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..cheunemann

this one has a lot of info in it
http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html

and don’t forget sheuneman’s link to stephen payne, bush library fundraiser video star……

that’s on think progress in their “think fast” section, will get the link now

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..y-23-2008/

third paragraph down

I agree, I think he is on drugs, won’t help him get through a grueling campaign season tho.

.
hey thanks perris

Oh, that’l work. Tell junya to stop threatening that frog. That’s like trying to put out a fire with kerosine.

Boy, this website is getting really flaky. Long load times, and sometimes not at all, problems with buttons and links. I think you guys are being messed with big time.

Maybe that’s a good sign that the Lake of Fire and Dogs is having an impact? Or at least being a real pest.

Muaksey hearing with the HJC starting now
link to webcast

marcy’ll be liveblogging, btw

I’ll have a liveblog up once things get going.

and Ian’s up with Freddie & Fannie

When will someone ask McCain which wars he has won?

In fact, has he ever fought on the winning side?

Also, per President Bush:

The principle guiding my decisions on troop levels in Iraq is “return on success.” The more successful we are, the more American troops can return home.

We currently have more troops in Iraq than we did when the surge began. Only a fool would call that anything other than “negative success.”

When will someone ask McCain which wars he has won?

man oh man, I will laugh out loud when they ask that question, and when he says “the surge is working and that was my idea”, hopefully the interviewer will have the knowledge to punish him with that statement

It would be a good question to ask. It would be even better if he would answer the question. Let’s find out which ones he thinks the US has won to start. Give him something that has historical record. If he can’t handle that one, do we need go on and discuss the wars in the world in the last say, 6 decades?

It’s too bad, then, that John McCain never sought to impart his keen knowledge of how to win wars on Bush/Cheney/Rumfeld & Company. They certainly had no clue. It could have saved thousands and thousands of American and Iraqi lives and a helluva lot of money….maybe the economy of this country. Too bad John is such a shrinking violet. Speaking up with some of that famous straight talk could have been valuable.