Isn’t her boss, like, one of those eggheads?

Nothing like getting yer nominee and then revealing yer true colors. Gotta love these Dems (not).

Is Howie shackled?

Stick to your principles, Jane!
We’ve got your back.

Bob in HI

Whatever it takes Jane, just keep kicking their asses .
You are an inspiration and a fighter and that scares them.
No surrender, no prisoners, no quarter.

-sigh- looks like I have to make a phone call.

Well, she was there with a “lace corsage whose breast cancer had been eliminated….” Who knew? (Sure, I know that sentence should not bug me. O well.)

Now that is by far the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Coming from a repig, I might believe it-seeing as how they hate science-but from a dem? O. M. G. What on earth is going on? Have we changed into a new wikiality-reality as determined by majority vote- where science is becoming the new antichrist? If this trend continues, I give the US only 20-30 years to turn into just another 3rd world sinkhole. Then we can bring preachers to pray over disease, and maybe kill a chicken and spill its blood on us to cure us. Medicare will, of course, cover these treatments as mainstream, but will not allow medical treatment because that is the work of the devil

Wtf? Now Democrats don’t believe in science either? Very sad.

What the ….? How could Howard Dean (a physician) have appointed her?

I have to say that I really don’t have a problem with people choosing chemotherapy AND prayer. I get concerned when people think that their choices are chemotherapy OR prayer.

Ok pups, you know the drill: Digg and Spotlight.

if you read the NYT link, she came from who else: Terry McAuliffe

Ummm…I’m speechless….no, no, no…I’m going to throw up….

From Teddy’s post:DNC Cash Buys Bigoted, Anti-Choice Propaganda

…
The covenant pledged to “require public schools to offer Bible literacy as part of their curriculum” and made at least two vows that run counter to positions of the national party: to “pass a constitutional amendment confirming that all life is a gift from God and should be protected; and that life begins at conception” and to “defeat any efforts to redefine marriage or provide the benefits of marriage to a same-sex union.”
…

I guess I see this as more of an attack on science and a melding of church and state. These are big no-no’s to me personally. This Leah Daughtry person sounds more fitted to the Bush administration.

That’s what I don’t get. Why did Dean hire her in the first place? Has anyone called the DNC about this?

This is driving me crazy. I know people who left the GOP over the fundyism; they all said “my party left ME.” Feels the same way here.

Lord almighty, faith-based medical care. No thank you. Give me a nice atheistic doc any day.

Damn right!! I wish someone would have asked Howard Dean about this over the weekend. Maybe someone can get an answer from him this week.

“Though she is a biblical literalist who sees no problem with teaching creation theory side by side with evolution…”

When the fuck (yes, I said fuck!) did my Democratic Party start teaching fairy tales alongside science?

If I’d only believed harder, then my Dad’s cancer wouldn’t have killed him?

Fuck you, Leah.

Chemo + Prayer = good. Prayer – Chemo = dead.

I don’t have a problem with the DNC planting stories about the fundamentalist Xtian outreach program. I think it’s great propaganda. But it’s very destructive to lead that with an anti-science story.

My reading of her statement is that she did take chemo but it was her “sisters’ prayers” that actually worked.

Hm. Playing both sides of the fence. She has a bright future in the corporate wing of the Dem Party.

i am a cancer survivor. (1963 -68)
i had a colonoscopies in 2002, 2003 and last thursday.
dr. spindel says i won’t need another for ten years.
thank you dr. spindel.
thank you.

my best friend from high school ( a chiropractor now)doesn’t believe in colonoscopies.
“they focus too much on fear.”
and that might make one more inclined to get the disease, they say.

i don’t trust doctors, but i won’t ignore medical science.
we fought/fight for the right-to-choose.
women’s right and patients’ rights:
we choose.

live long and prosper.

Some part is very simple; no intelligent person is a Biblical Literalist. Can’t happen.

Why did Dean hire her in the first place?

my .02

after the “bruising battle” to install Dean as Chair, this was his idea of comity, a ‘gracious gesture’ to the outgoing regime – when in bloody hell are they ever going to learn that never works !

I googled her name and it appears that she’s an African-American, Pentecostal Minister.

FWIW

Jane, I saw the article in the NYTimes yesterday and could not finish it. The democratic party can reach out to pentecostal and evangelicals by improving their life without pandering. It’s not unusual when you have cancer to pray for a miracle but it is unusual, imo to only count on miracles.

Doesn’t seem as if this woman is sayin that people shouldn’t get chemo- the woman she is talking about chemo- but she thinks that chemo without Jesus may not work- or somethin.

When Conyers holds Judiciary Cmte. hearings and they are only to have Kuchinich as a ‘witness’ and the hearing are only to address ‘the imperial presidency’ (confirmed on a call to Kuchinich’s office today), I have to wonder about ‘fighting for the soul,etc.’ because it appears as if there is no ’soul’. I appreciate all that Jane and everyone else does, but the game is rigged and continuing to play along with the game is like trying to bake a good apple pie with rotten apples.
Change the game, then save the ‘party’.

(barbara clenches fists and clears throat as she prepares to speak with great moderation and immense calm)

What the frickin’ hell?!

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present David? He has been battling back the cancer beastie for nearly a year. His treatment has included radiation, chemotherapy and a boatload of well-wishers who have supported him each in their own way, e.g., thoughts, hopes, prayers.

Jane, I am so totally with you on this. Faith-abetted medicine and faith-based medicine are poles apart.

I have no idea what the religious persuasion of any of David’s oncologists is, and frankly, I don’t give a rip. What I care about is their knowledge, skill, ability to assess and shift and gauge and calculate and consult with each other to bring forward the best there is for my man (and others who are challenged by cancer).

(barbara shuts up)

Given that we’ve been hearing about outreach to the “faith community” for the past six or so years, I’m guessing the fact that she comes from an extremely prominent family in the african-american church didn’t hurt.

The pandering irritates me no end.
Feed the hungry. Heal the sick, shelter those who go without. Make things better. Don’t jaw about it and don’t tell me how to pray. Don’t assume that because I am a Democrat I’m without faith. How patronizing!
Makes me want to start my own church.
Bong Hits for Wodin.

I’ve come to the conclusion that we human beings are completely insane, because we have absolutely no idea what we are doing here in this awareness that we are aware of being aware of. So, we just make shit up and some of it sticks and some doesn’t….

What the ….? How could Howard Dean (a physician) have appointed her?

Maybe she was using Maliki’s translator….

Love the comments from folks in the big tent party…

Right now, there are battles to be fought at a federal level and ones fought at a local level. The important federal battles are Iraq and the economy. To me, Daughtry is no more a nut that a vegan or PETA member (that argument for a different thread). If we are the party of choice, lets be that. If you support a woman’s right to choose, then you should support a person’s right to seek their own medical treatment whether it be herbs or prayer. And that goes both ways.

and certainly there would have been better ways to do outreach with the fundies – focusing on taking care of the weakest among us – faith based charitable works – food, clothing, shelter, as mr jeebus preached

’cause I don’t think this is what he meant by comforting the sick – not by a friggin’ long shot

and (((barbara))) – don’t you ever shut up !

Here’s the quote in question:

Dancing down front, in an aisle between pews, was a woman in an elaborate dress with a lace corsage whose breast cancer had been eradicated, Daughtry had said, through the prayers of her church sisters: “The eggheads will say her chemotherapy worked, but everyone who uses chemotherapy isn’t cured.”

So Daughtrey is saying that this woman HAD chemotherapy and is cured- but she might not have been if she hadn’t had the prayers of her church sisters as well..

Seems OK to me- might even be true.

Yeah!!! Sing it loud sister!!! :)

People can choose to treat themselves with candy bandaids and stickers as far as I’m concerned, that’s not what the question is. The objection is to someone with influence in the Democratic party talking about doctors who believe in chemo as “eggheads”.

Ms. Daughtry believes life begins at conception so it seems as if she is not exactly in the the right-to-choose side.

Okay, I’m calmed down a little now-but science and fairy tales will never mix. They’re mutually exclusive.

Science and faith, well, that’s another matter entirely. One could even argue that you can’t have one without the other.

What has always attracted me to the Democratic Party is that we ask questions, and the answers lead to new questions. Faith is about seeking, not providing, answers.

When we stop seeking answers we become Republicans.

Uh, like, duh. ;) (((barbara and david)))

And Jane. Well, I haven’t been around lately between work and work and more of it but just when I think I don’t have time for this blogging thing, a topic like this comes up and I think I might change my mind. Science is science. Religion is religion. Both have their places. Separately.

I too, hate it when we pander. What a bunch of crap.

“The eggheads will say her chemotherapy worked . . . .”

This is the part (or part of the part) that really pisses me off. She is vilifying those who read, think, embrace science. She is denigrating medicine and science. That is Republican Talking Point 137.

Those words were badly chosen for sure- but I don’t think she is advocating avoiding medical treatments for cancer- at least as far as I can see.

The Democratic Party has a soul?

I believe life already exists before conception or there wouldn’t be a life force transmitted, and I believe that an individual life begins at conception…what I believe doesn’t matter…it just doesn’t matter…what is…is…I believe in choice too….

No one knows what life is…no one. No one knows what death is either. No one knows who we are or why we are here either…..

We make up justifications to support what we believe and we attach to those beliefs. We have a choice to attach to those beliefs. The best that can be hoped for is that our beliefs do not bring harm to anything or anyone, and that we have respect for life…even though we have no idea what it really is. Just my 2 cents….

But, ultimately? We don’t know anything.

“A long time ago a bunch of people reached a general consensus as to what’s real and what’s not and most of us have been going along with it ever since.”

Charles de Lint

The objection is someone with influence in the Democratic party talking about doctors who believe in chemo as “eggheads”.

By this statement Daughtry isn’t the person on the top of you list to have a drink after work with… Me either. But if she is good at what she does, then I don’t give a damn. Daughtry is not the leader of my party and will not be setting the platform, that is Obama.

I get JH’s revulsion to Daughtry’s comments, and as a person has a hereditary line that puts the cancer timebomb in my body, I think that Daughtry is completely wrong about her views in this area. But her thoughts on science and eggheads are in no way relevant to what her purpose is inside the party.

However, it is appropriate to criticize someone who disputes the efficacy of a successful medical procedure in order to pander to faith healers.

The fact is that her chemo worked. It’s disingenuous of her to suggest otherwise.

I believe that an individual life begins at conception

serious question, is your belief based on your faith or on your understanding of reproductive biology?

I have cancer- I had wife who died from cancer….I have no arrogance when it comes to why some survive and others don’t—I would not rule out religious belief as a factor for some people.

Perhaps not. But what she seems to be saying is that relying on science is insufficient. Ultimately, it comes down to “whom/what do you trust?” For us, science is not-negotiable. It is the heart and soul of David’s treatment. I honor the right of others to make different choices about this. None of our decisions has been capricious. Not one.

I went (w/my daughter no less) to the BodyWorks exhibit @ the California Science Centre in L.A. this past weekend. Besides the plasticinated bodies in various revelatory poses, & organs in same (fascinating. btw), there was one whole area devoted to the conception-embrionic-right up to birth state.

If microscopic tissue interaction is “life,” well, I guess we’re in a tight spot here, since “life” is effing invisible throughout almost half that area.

Life Science, Ms. Daughtry, is actually quite well developed in 2008, dontchaknow.

i wouldn’t either. but that’s not (i think) what daughtry was doing.

{{{rw}}}

Oh, please hear me! I don’t either. And as I’ve already blathered, I totally respect the right of anyone to make that choice. Just don’t be telling me/us what choice to make. Because, hello? This is another of those pro-choice issues, I guess.

repaired my link for dr. spindel.

i am just proud to find out last tuesday that he had his letter to the NYT (reg. req.) published.

drive carefully.

I took her to be saying “sometimes medicine alone is not enough”

If that’s what she was saying- I support her.

Reproductive biology….sperm has a life force that somehow “knows” to swim to fertilize the life in the ovum. Both have life…when melded…an individual lifeform evolves. Seems obvious to me….but…wtf do I know…that’s what I’m saying….I can attach to a “belief” that that is what occurs, because someone taught me that, but that doesn’t make it “fact”…I try not to attach to belief too much….but I obviously do…perhaps that is nature…I don’t know…but I wouldn’t press my belief over someone else’s…just see it for what it is. Hope that makes some kind of sense.

Sorry for typos (in a rush right now), that would be BodyWorlds.

her thoughts on science and eggheads are in no way relevant to what her purpose is inside the party.

Not any more.

I had enough of that “egghead” anti-intellectual namecalling as a child to last a lifetime. Not gonna take it from people speaking for the Democratic Party. You guys know I do my overseas work as a person of faith. I believe in faith, I also work using science, and try to honor both.

The choice is not between faith or science. The choice is whether individuals decide for themselves or whether the majority, acting through the government, decides. Society has no more right to impose juice therapy over chemotherapy. It has no right to impose faith based anything.

I don’t know if defending individual rights does it for evangelicals. Isn’t it enough to fight for their right to be evangelicals? Not if they respond by saying we must be evangelicals too.

I don’t think Daughtry insulted you, Jane, or anyone who choses chemo. She chose faith over chemo which is her right just as it is your right to choose chemo over faith. One path for everyone is not democracy. If the Dems are unwilling to defend the individual’s right to be him or herself, then I say the hell with them. Let’s plan something else for 2012 unless, of course, we can take over the party and kick the evangelicals who don’t accept individuality out.

So do I. Just don’t be calling us and our caregivers “eggheads,” a clearly pejorative reference to those who opt for science as our principal avenue of healing.

Respectfully, we can all have our own beliefs on this topic but when this starts to cross over into the politics that says women can’t make a choice then that is different kettle of fish.

I thought the Republicans had trademarked Religion or Science, Life or Blasphemy. How can the DNC use it without a license?

In the quotes in that article, Daughtry speaks of the gifts that God has given her — administration, preaching, etc. To borrow her language, then, it’s very odd to see her disparage the gifts that God has given to others — the gift of medical knowledge, of compassion toward the ill, and all those other egg-heady kinds of things.

But maybe I’m just sensitive to the term “egghead.” I come from a family filled with people who invested lots of time and energy pursuing lots of advanced degrees.

It’s possible to reach out to people of faith, Dr. Dean, but this is NOT the way to do it.

DNC says most of it. Cancer is no theocratic condition last I heard.
Anyone who has been there can tell of many things that help, but to
dismiss medical treatment out of hand is going too far. Each person
should have as much choice for whatever combo treatment options there
are available to them. DNC, there you go again.

I agree with that– no need for the put down. It’s actually a pervasive tone of voice with some evangelicals- they believe that they know something no one else does–it’s a central part of the belief system.

I trained to be a scientist and I can tell you that this country is stuffed full of AssClowns like this woman who really, really don’t like folks who are knowleageble about the how the world works.

It’s not cool to be smart in America and that’s the sickening truth.

Indeed.

Do you see a place where she is dismissing medical treatment? I don’t.

i think the problem was her characterization of people who disagree with her as “eggheads.” furthermore she said that the “eggheads types” can’t understand the spirit driven.

but imo, digby isn’t helping matters when she used the phrase “believe in science.” i have no idea what she means by that, but it sounds to me like she’s saying people have to choose who to believe: the priests of religion or the “priests” of medicine. imo both choices are profoundly anti-thought and are appeals to authority. i think of science as a way to try to understand / make sense of the natural world. it’s a method, it’s not the conventional wisdom of scientists.

Yep, it’s cool to denigrate people who spend their lives trying to understand the world we live in. After all they probably can’t sing or play guitar or tell jokes so they will never, every be on American Idol.

Yep, look at those eggheads. They think they know so much. Eggheads should just STFU!

The framing of “egghead” together with “chemotherapy” seems like she is creating a word association to insult cancer patients who have gone through chemo.

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/re…..133554.htm

- Tom

As in the battle over insurance coverage for birth control vs. ED, my guess is that chemo for prostate cancer is just being smart. It’s chemo for breast and uterine cancer that’s self-indulgent.

Howard Dean, MD, of all people, better order a prompt apology or demand a competent chief of staff.

That sounds accurate and insightful.

Egghead.

I agree totally with you. I hope I made that clear, but perhaps I didn’t…oh well.

Reproductive biology

thanks, wasn’t going to ask this unless that was your answer: how do you reconcile conception as when an individual life is formed with the process of twinning?

I think that’s exactly right. Using the derogatory, anti-intellectual “egghead” associates those meanings with “chemotherapy”. The emotional content of that statement is what counts and it was plain enough.

Sometimes it all works, sometimes none of it does and you are left with
hospice at home. Sorry for the bother.

They are the eggheads.

Paul was the walrus.

i believe life begins in the morning.

tomorrow morning.
with coffee.

p.s. i should also say that if your answer was “faith” i wouldn’t question it.

That’s exactly what I meant when I said that this is a pro-choice issue. Give me my options and then I will make my own eggheaded choice.

the problem as I see it here is not really the substance of the cancer conversation, it’s the fact that it is being wound around politics.

I am getting SO tired of the dems trying to pander to a population that will never vote for them. My spouse thinks it’s just a super duper thing since he read Amy Sullivan’s book on how the Kerry campaign f*cked up the religious vote. But I really wish that we could get religion OUT of politics. It dilutes the message on both sides and makes everyone look like hypocrites.

One egg splitting after fertilization or two eggs separately fertilized? I don’t understand your question….I believe that the sperm triggers the physical development (cell division) of the egg(s)…seems to me that there’s lifeforce in there happening no matter how you look at it….I’m probably way off base, but I don’t understand your question…

I second that emotion.

Time for a meander through David’s spirit-filled gardens.

Would be nice- but I see no way to make it happen.

People don’t divide up into analytical parts- when they go to the voting booth, they bring the whole package.

As the GOP slips off the right side of the flat earth, the Dems step right in to fill their empty slot.

Rightward ho!

Eggheads? Seriously? Freaking eggheads? Every time I think maybe, just maybe, we have turned the corner on hating, well, smart people, something like this comes up. And that isn’t even getting into the whole demeaning someone’s choice of treatment. Look, faith can be a wonderful thing (unless it is used as a club), and if I were diagnosed with cancer, I would lean on my own quirky and occasionally rusty faith quite a bit, and I would be praying that I choose the right doctors who could give me the best treatment, be it drugs, chemotherapy, radiation, or things I have never heard of. I have watched people I love make those decisions and nothing was ever off the table because it came from eggheads. Those eggheads were a lifeline, and they deserve respect, as do the people relying on them.

Why does it always seem to come to this in discussions of faith–at least in the media–anyway? You can embrace both faith and eggheads. You can also embrace one, the other, or neither, and in the end that should matter only to the person doing the embracing or non-embracing. Trumpeting your own faith to scorn another person’s decision, choice, intelligence, or faith just makes you an ass. Even Jesus thought so. You’d think Ms. Daughtry would know that.

Life force? What is that? Life force, from all I can gather from years and years in biology is ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate). Nothing more, nothing less. OK, there is also GTP as a weaker sibling but there you go.

I have yet to see an amorphous “life force” other than ATP (and the splitting of ATP for ALL energy in ALL living cells).

Your information sounds outdated. Last I heard, they had three panels invited. Per David Swanson:

The hearing was then scheduled for a Friday (July 25) and scheduled to last a full two-hours (10 a.m. to noon). Then the topic was altered. Rather than being about impeachment, the hearing will be about impeachment and other supposed remedies to a lawless presidency, with the bulk of the time devoted to those other remedies. Most of those other remedies will involve, believe it or not, legislative proposals. Thus, the dererrence to future presidents who follow the Bush-Cheney tradition of violating all laws and checks on power will be the knowledge that during the administration following Bush-Cheney some bills were passed criminalizing what had always been criminal activity.

Rumor has it there are two panels being planned for the hearing, one consisting of Kucinich and four other members of Congress (Jane Harman, Walter Jones, Brad Miller, and Maurice Hinchey), and the other consisting of five non-Congress Members (Elizabeth Holtzman, Bruce Fein, Frederick Schwartz, John Dean, and Bob Barr). Each of these speakers will likely have 5 minutes for opening remarks. So, Kucinich’s presentation of the impeachable offenses of 7.5 years will be limited to 5 minutes. The hope of those planning this afair will be to bury impeachment.

Bob in HI

The fact is that her chemo worked. It’s disingenuous of her to suggest otherwise.

I completely 10000% argee with you…. But, this is not a story that we should be talking about on a national level.

We have to think big tent and big issues are what binds us. Stories like this are a distraction. Every organization has a wide range of people and on a personal level, many of them would never socialize. Daughtry and I would be two of those people that would never social outside of work. But we are both working to get Obama elected.

Also, in response to many of the posts, I think that it is a slippery slope to try to take the mantle of being the party of “science”. There are too many pitfalls dealing with Science because of the burden that a “conventional wisdom” mentality in many fields. Science, as a body popular, is slow to explore and accept many new areas, everything from global warming to autism. Being a party of education and research a much strong position. You beat down the creationist when you take them out of the shadows and expose their ideas open and constructive debate.

Didn’t Nancy Pelosi sell it for a few more seats in the Senate?

Bob in HI

lol…I still want the right to choose what to do regarding my personal body’s voluntary or involuntary chemical reactions…*g*

No problem. Everyone should have the right to determine where and how their ATP is hydrolyzed!

Is that “you” Raven????

i am also a person of faith.
i pray/mantra Green Tara
that she may help your healing, Jane.

is this alright with you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(Buddhism)

this is not a story that we should be talking about on a national level.

Mm hm.

Jane:

I wonder if Leah Daughtry would be willing to compare the remission rate for laying on of hands to the remission rate for chemotherapy? I would be willing to bet on the outcome of that comparison.

It is easy for faith healers – they get to call a single lucky break a “miracle.” Scientists, on the other hand, have to PROVE the effectiveness of their treatments.

OT: Looks like Ted Stevens might be gettin his Toobz tied:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talk…..s_down.php

Investing time and energy in Blue America is once again paying fantastic dividends, although still a long way to go of course. Onward and upward!

sorry i wasn’t clear (i’m no reproductive biologist, and i may not be saying it correctly). i meant that if conception defines an individual life, how can one explain twins (two individuals) that develop from the embryo of one ovum / one sperm?

20 – 30 years is being generous. I wouldn’t give us more than ten years at this rate.

Someday, the world will look upon the medicine of our time as barbaric…i.e., can you believe they did that back then…..

We don’t know shizzola about the reality of life or death.

Could you please provide a list of approved topics by the end of business today?

Those are clones. Literally and to a MUCH greater extent than any laboratory clone could ever be. Such “natural” clones are identical (except for incidental random mutations that are inevitable during DNA replication and exposure to, well, the world) in every possible way, including their mitochondrial DNA.

What the jesus people need to do is explain which of the resulting peeps got the soul thingy. Or did both get merely half a soul (poor dears)?

Umm…talk to any set of twins…fraternal or paternal…they are all different individuals…physically…not so much necessarily…sometimes depending on which they are…very different…as are all siblings born of the same two parents…some physically identical other than environmental influences. Same for cloning…you won’t get the identical individual in the clones…they may look the same, but they are not the same “individual”…

…and try to honor both.

What a concept! Many could benefit from such a simple idea.

1,711 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen raven333:

“The Democratic Party has a soul?”

Yes and WE, every stinkin’, long haired, short haired, workin’ poor SOB of us are it. Enough of this bullshit about not a dime’s worth a difference between the political parties – the base of the Democratic Party, it’s soul, is the common folk who are NOT religious crazies, NOT fascist bigots and each and every one of us is goin broke by inches.

So let’s take back the leadership of our party and let’s have fun doin’ it…let’s have a block party in front of the convention hall in Denver. We hafta have the stones ta tell these bastards that they can’t win a single election without us and we have the courage not ta vote for ‘em if they don’t come outta the closet and make a nod in our direction.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IT’S ALL ABOUT THE STRUGGLE!!

Speaking as an egghead who doesn’t understand the ’spirit-driven,’ my problem is that I don’t understand the bit about the big invisible bunny who is always by your side. But that’s just me.

i was kinda curious to know what LS thought….

i agree they are not the same “individual” that’s why i don’t understand how conception can define an “individual” life.

again, if i’m stepping on your faith, please let me know because i have no desire to do that…

It has nothing to do with faith. I just can’t see any other “time” during the development of a zygot, then an embryo, then a fetus…human or otherwise…would have an “event” that would determine the difference in the ultimate “individuality or personality or whatever you want to call it”…even though in some cases…the physical cells are “identical”…depending on how fertilization took place, unless it occurred at the time of conception for some reason and by some manner which I don’t understand.

I have no idea why…I’m just an observer of life.

I have another question… why do we live in a country where people of learning are demeaned as “eggheads” etc by legitimate leaders on both sides of the political establishment? I mean, really. But then again, I’ve never associated state sponsors of torture with much intellectualism.

Because those “dumbed down” are easier to manipulate…must control those masses you know…

Speaking as a parent, I’d have to say that (my) life ended at conception … *g*

… sorry, just trying to make y’all smile a little … being 20+ years in yoga/meditation, I’ve heard all these crazy comments over and over …

Yes.

((((( Barbara & David )))))

Dude, is that you ?

((((( LS )))))

And when we realize that we know nothing, we become capable of knowing everything – Nirvana

… or so I’ve realized …

HOLY FUCK!

but conception itself if not a moment but takes a number of hours. i guess i just see it as a process, not an event. so was curious how you saw it. thanks.

When does life begin ?

First Minister: Life begins at conception.

Second Minister: Life begins with the first heart beat.

Rabbi: Life begins when the kids move out and the Dog dies.

I agree, I agree. But I don’t know shizzola….I’ve never heard of two identical individuals…*g*….or snowflakes so they say…

OT: Looks like Ted Stevens might be gettin his Toobz tied:

*spew* … peppermint Tea all over the Mac … *g*

707

Best frikkin’ comment of the day!!!

Bwahahahahaha

((((( Margot ))))) … Touche !

amen

Life begins whenever a creature takes it’s first shit….all scientists know this!

Or ends if it doesn’t get rid of the merconium so that it can take that first shit…anyone who has raised animals knows this…

How did we get from Leah Daughtry to conception? I love the Lake – it wanders.

So many really bad Democrats to boot out — so little time.

I love the Lake – it wanders.

like a river?

We were just pondering the contrapositive.

gives new meaning to the phrase,too dumb to live!

probably like my mind most of the time. It’s really fun to see where each post will take us and it’s always far afield.

my Phi Beta Kappa dad used to say that…i miss him

Daniel Schorr mocking at the W “Aspirational time horizon;” let alone seeing his/W’s plans hit the dust. Yayyyy, Dan.

Does W know what a “time horizon” is?

Make no mistake — there are two different cases. There are fundies … and then there are fundies. I know it is confusing, but we all think of fundies as the right-wing kind. There are the “left-wing” type, too. There are many Democrats who want equal rights for African Americans BUT hate gays. (Well, being religious, they say they LOVE the sinner, yet HATE the sin. Yes, it makes me throw up, too.)

I was absolutely speechless today, when I spoke to my mother, who still lives in Oklahoma. Although she is for Obama, she told me NO ONE she knows will vote (for president) this year. Huh? I asked her WHO these people were. No, not the usual hicks you would imagine. They are all college-educated, and the vast majority actually teach at university. I asked why and she said they explain that they don’t know enough about Obama. Huh? It is JULY. The election is in NOVERMBER. They have over 3 months to research him. Since they are all voting for Andrew Rice, it is not because they are right-wing loons. The only explanation can be: RACISM. There are WAY too many closet racists in America. (And the Hillary supporters who claim they will vote for McCain over Obama are a good example.)

It is sickening.

Just heard you on BBC Jane. Grand job. It was like listening to a friend. Hope you enjoyed meeting my fellow Scot Jim Naughtie

barbara meandered and while I was gone, the lake meandered.

Are you living in Scotland? Relocated from Scotland? Of Scots heritage? I ask because just a little over a year ago, David and I were meandering around Scotland, loving every single minute of it. Okay. Not the roundabouts so much, and also the exchange rate. But other than that, our most perfect holiday.

Jane, I deal with this Daughery creature in my Latest FaBlog: Onward

Norske

Your planned demonstration in Denver is kinda sixties. What we need is an organization based on congressional districts and a nationwide demonstration involving multi-millions of people. That said, I have no idea how we might pull that off.

New book quoting Jackie Kennedy…after the Cuban missile Crisis, It’s not the BIG who cause war, it’s the LITTLE ones. Should be a mantra and ask why we elect little ones?

Pictures of McC visiting the Sr. Bush. Mr. Bush looks like he’s about to cry…what misery.

and selise@129;
10Q both!

after reading the post & the link, I was otherwise speechless.
I’m glad Jane seldom is!