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	<title>Comments on: Great Britain: No Trust For US Torture Representations</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/</link>
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		<title>By: karnak12</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550190</link>
		<dc:creator>karnak12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550190</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If I were George I would consider this my final crowning achievement. Think of it: America, the United States of America on the non-extradition list for torture, after only 7, or is it 8, (time flies by so quickly when one is having fun in the bubble) short years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What other ignominious heights are there left to scale?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were George I would consider this my final crowning achievement. Think of it: America, the United States of America on the non-extradition list for torture, after only 7, or is it 8, (time flies by so quickly when one is having fun in the bubble) short years.</p>
<p>What other ignominious heights are there left to scale?</p>
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		<title>By: SuburbanGrrrl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550170</link>
		<dc:creator>SuburbanGrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550170</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This isn’t going to end til the world community has our equivalent of the Nuremburg trials and the peacekeepers come in and empty all the prisons and force Americans to see what we’ve allowed. And I don’t just mean Guantanamo and our secret prisons overseas. I also mean our prisons where we are holding immigrants (illegal and iegal) and children. Sadly, I don’t see it coming.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn’t going to end til the world community has our equivalent of the Nuremburg trials and the peacekeepers come in and empty all the prisons and force Americans to see what we’ve allowed. And I don’t just mean Guantanamo and our secret prisons overseas. I also mean our prisons where we are holding immigrants (illegal and iegal) and children. Sadly, I don’t see it coming.</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550158</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550158</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This needs more play to ensure more signatures.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I signed it openly and proudly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This needs more play to ensure more signatures.</p>
<p>I signed it openly and proudly.</p>
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		<title>By: ondelette</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550139</link>
		<dc:creator>ondelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550139</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We have put together a letter to send to Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo of the International Criminal Court asking for an investigation of the U.S. government on charges of torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners under its control.  We further asked him to consider the role of Congress, which has an obligation under treaties to investigate, prosecute, and punish violators of Geneva and CAT (it is the prosecuting body for the president et al.). &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The al-Bashir indictment and arrest warrant last week put to rest many of the arguments that are often heard out here in blogland about jurisdiction: no, the Security Council does not have to initiate investigations, and yes, they can indict sitting heads of state in countries which have neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.  A lot has to do with the fact that the crimes are also crimes under treaties those countries &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; signed.  As for travel arrangements, there is one that people often overlook: the treaties require bilateral extradition for torture, systematic torture and all the rest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At any rate, we put the letter, which has a click for signing enabled, up on &lt;a href=&quot;http://humanityagainstcrimes.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Humanity Against Crimes&lt;/a&gt;, if people would like to add their names. There are provisions to sign privately, which means that your name would go on the hard copy that goes to the Hague, but not display publicly on the internet.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are also hoping that those with more credentials, spec. lawyers and physicians and so forth, will write letters of their own.  The last investigation opened on U.S. behavior (in Iraq) was the result of 240 requests.  It was ended because there was no evidence of a “plan or policy”. That situation has now changed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have put together a letter to send to Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo of the International Criminal Court asking for an investigation of the U.S. government on charges of torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners under its control.  We further asked him to consider the role of Congress, which has an obligation under treaties to investigate, prosecute, and punish violators of Geneva and CAT (it is the prosecuting body for the president et al.). </p>
<p>The al-Bashir indictment and arrest warrant last week put to rest many of the arguments that are often heard out here in blogland about jurisdiction: no, the Security Council does not have to initiate investigations, and yes, they can indict sitting heads of state in countries which have neither signed nor ratified the Rome Statute.  A lot has to do with the fact that the crimes are also crimes under treaties those countries <em>have</em> signed.  As for travel arrangements, there is one that people often overlook: the treaties require bilateral extradition for torture, systematic torture and all the rest.</p>
<p>At any rate, we put the letter, which has a click for signing enabled, up on <a href="http://humanityagainstcrimes.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Humanity Against Crimes</a>, if people would like to add their names. There are provisions to sign privately, which means that your name would go on the hard copy that goes to the Hague, but not display publicly on the internet.  </p>
<p>We are also hoping that those with more credentials, spec. lawyers and physicians and so forth, will write letters of their own.  The last investigation opened on U.S. behavior (in Iraq) was the result of 240 requests.  It was ended because there was no evidence of a “plan or policy”. That situation has now changed.</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550134</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550134</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am truly sickened. The British government should have ordered a “blunt warning” regarding torture way back when. Instead we Blair the Enabler.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am truly sickened. The British government should have ordered a “blunt warning” regarding torture way back when. Instead we Blair the Enabler.</p>
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		<title>By: wigwam</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550132</link>
		<dc:creator>wigwam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550132</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Many of the things that Pelosi passed, e.g., telco immunity, Bush was unable to get through congress when the GOP controlled it.  Pelosi is indeed a fascist, who did everything she could to further Bush’s agenda.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the things that Pelosi passed, e.g., telco immunity, Bush was unable to get through congress when the GOP controlled it.  Pelosi is indeed a fascist, who did everything she could to further Bush’s agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550129</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550129</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So Condoleeza Rice and George Tenet were informed that they had an innocent man and still detained him? Then they dropped him on a hillside where?!? That’s enough to make my head explode. And *what?!?* is any government– yes *you*, Swedish security services– doing aiding and abetting the CIA and its Halliburtonish cohorts? Why didn’t the Swedish government ask for *evidence* before they picked up an innocent man, *before* the CIA ruined his life with extraordinary rendition?!? Did the Swedish and other governments fall for the “ticking time bomb” scenario, or did they assume a Muslim was guilty before proven innocent? I really, really wonder. /rant off.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Condoleeza Rice and George Tenet were informed that they had an innocent man and still detained him? Then they dropped him on a hillside where?!? That’s enough to make my head explode. And *what?!?* is any government– yes *you*, Swedish security services– doing aiding and abetting the CIA and its Halliburtonish cohorts? Why didn’t the Swedish government ask for *evidence* before they picked up an innocent man, *before* the CIA ruined his life with extraordinary rendition?!? Did the Swedish and other governments fall for the “ticking time bomb” scenario, or did they assume a Muslim was guilty before proven innocent? I really, really wonder. /rant off.</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550121</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Indeed.  While I could definitely live with getting nothing passed until Bush was gone, what I cannot stomach was the abject collapse before Mr 28% as if he were indeed President for Life Bush.  Nothing would have been better than giving Bush what he wanted time after time after time.  Nothing would have been better than resurrecting the comatose FISA amendment nonsense and given Bush a SUPER gift.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pelosi had more than enough power to hold the line until the next Prez is elected.  Instead, she and her minions (Hoyer, Reid) decided that there was practically not enough time to give Bush the biggest and best parting gifts possible.  The Dem Congress started out in the shitter with “impeachment is off the table” and proceeded, in bursts of handle-grabbing, flush itself down into the sewer of craven collapse, obsequiousness, and collaboration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.  While I could definitely live with getting nothing passed until Bush was gone, what I cannot stomach was the abject collapse before Mr 28% as if he were indeed President for Life Bush.  Nothing would have been better than giving Bush what he wanted time after time after time.  Nothing would have been better than resurrecting the comatose FISA amendment nonsense and given Bush a SUPER gift.  </p>
<p>Pelosi had more than enough power to hold the line until the next Prez is elected.  Instead, she and her minions (Hoyer, Reid) decided that there was practically not enough time to give Bush the biggest and best parting gifts possible.  The Dem Congress started out in the shitter with “impeachment is off the table” and proceeded, in bursts of handle-grabbing, flush itself down into the sewer of craven collapse, obsequiousness, and collaboration.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550110</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550110</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;She has a liberal voting record…perhaps she’s a closet fascist- I don’t know.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I frankly didn’t expect the dems to get any significant legislation passed between the gooper filibusters and the Clusterfuck vetoes.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To be fair, I didn’t expect her to pass a lot of new legislation but what I did expect was Pelosi and the Democrats to mount a credible opposition to Bush’s policies.  For Iraq, this meant only funding our forces there to leave.  Instead what we saw was a Congress that not only funded Bush’s war but the surge.  One which went out of its way to pass the worst possible bills like the FISA Amendments Act.  In addition to this, she attacked those as selise pointed out above who tried to do something.  And of course, she attacked the Democratic base dismissing them as “advocates” and not “leaders” like herself.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>She has a liberal voting record…perhaps she’s a closet fascist- I don’t know.</p>
<p>I frankly didn’t expect the dems to get any significant legislation passed between the gooper filibusters and the Clusterfuck vetoes.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To be fair, I didn’t expect her to pass a lot of new legislation but what I did expect was Pelosi and the Democrats to mount a credible opposition to Bush’s policies.  For Iraq, this meant only funding our forces there to leave.  Instead what we saw was a Congress that not only funded Bush’s war but the surge.  One which went out of its way to pass the worst possible bills like the FISA Amendments Act.  In addition to this, she attacked those as selise pointed out above who tried to do something.  And of course, she attacked the Democratic base dismissing them as “advocates” and not “leaders” like herself.</p>
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		<title>By: tbsa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/21/great-britain-recommends-no-trust-for-us-on-torture-representations/#comment-1550105</link>
		<dc:creator>tbsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;That legislation never had to come to the floor in the first place.  I can’t even stand to watch her speak.  Looking at and listening to her and bush is all the same to me.  Can’t stomach it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That legislation never had to come to the floor in the first place.  I can’t even stand to watch her speak.  Looking at and listening to her and bush is all the same to me.  Can’t stomach it.</p>
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