Yeah…that faux “diplomacy surge” was just a ruse to pretend they’ve pursued diplomacy to it’s end….next stop….another request for a resolution and then on to bomb, bomb, bomb…Iran.

They need to be stopped.

What sickening excuse for a human being….hey the VIA CONDOTTI….and FERRAGAMO await her

teddy didja see this?
‘If they want to rent a bus, show them where they can rent a bus’

The night before presumptive Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) left for Afghanistan, Iraq and Western Europe for a tour of US bases overseas, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice issued a cable to US missions forbidding them from holding events for presidential candidates or arrange meetings for them.

Rice issued no such cable prior to foreign excursions by presumptive Republican nominee Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).

She also cabled them and said that once they get on the bus to make sure Barack sits in the back. /s

who’s this “we” Condi speaks of? Did she take it seriously to go herself? Nah. Send the #3 guy - I mean it’s not like there are important things to discuss with Tehran or anything….

Digg if you think we haven’t done enough.

hey call the NEW YORKER for the next cover/

Is she an idiot, or is this some kind of high stakes diplomacy ploy that us unserious, little people don’t get?

Okay, yeah, she’s an idiot.

Sending the #3 guy was an insult, diplomatically.

Of course, when all you’re really looking for is for the talks to fail, that’s a good start.

its almost funny if it werent our country……….hey secretary…ing the state is HARD WORK to quote the other lazy un curious George

Teddy -

Please forgive this interruption so early in comments for this post.

Breaking news from MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25787633/

Bosnian Serb wartime president arrested
The war crimes fugitive, Radovan Karadzic is twice indicted for genocide

BELGRADE - Bosnian Serb wartime president Radovan Karadzic, one of the world’s most wanted men, has been arrested in Serbia, Serbian government and judicial sources said on Monday.

(snip)

Wonder if it has occured to condi that if she goes back to Stanford, she’ll be surrounded by people who will ask her daily:

“What the fuck were you THINKING?”

isnt that CURT WELDONS sugar poppy?

I think we have done enough to demonstrate that the United States is serious and to assure our partners that we are serious and to show the Iranians that we are serious. I think we have done enough

I would point out that although William Burns went to “meet” the Iranians there were no direct discussions. I have rated the likelihood of an attack (US or Israel) on Iran before Bush leaves office at 70%. The current diplomatic moves should have significantly reduced these odds but given the ambiguity of the efforts you can at most knock maybe 5% off that probability.

from Condi’s next job interview: “What have you been doing for the last eight years?”

And her only honest answer can be - “Oh, nothing much.”

Do you know where there is a good sale for shoes? At least she won’t have to wade in Louisiana waters anymore.

Condi’s foreign policy and diplomacy skills have been talked about and examined for years and come up sorely lacking.
We are serious.

Great news. If Bush and Cheney ever gave a thought about the consequences of their actions (they don’t), they might find this news disturbing.

Must be something decent in San Francisco- if she dares to show her face there.

The Karics are connected to war criminals Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic, the so-called “Bosnian Serb” leaders. Both Mladic and Karadzic are responsible for some horrible atocities and killings during the war.

The US refuses to let them in.

Weldon is in bed with some bad guys. He’s also working closely with General Quadaffi of Libya. Until recently, Libya was part of the axis of evil.

Aw, come on, Teddy. Everyone knows this whole escapade about talking to the Iranians was about moving the oil markets. That, for two reasons. One, Bushie’s buddies needed to make some money shorting the market, and two, the Repugs needed to put a brake on the increasing price of gas (and hopefully, drive it down just like they did before the 2006 elections) and now’s the time for that to begin.

That’s why they talked to the Iranians, and not to show what great guys they are.

How about screwing up the world and waving while getting on and off airplanes

from T Boone Pickens’ new commercial: “We spend over $700 billion dollars every year on foreign oil - that’s almost four times the cost of the entire Iraq War.”

T.Boone seems a little weak in the math department.

And show Condi in her Stillettos…

How about screwing up the world …

I think that’s the part of the interview where she has to think of something she regrets about her last job.

Or at least sorta regrets…

I have hardened my view of Condi: from idiot to willful idiot, based on Richard Clarke’s characterization of her desire to address only “foreign policy.” During the anthrax attacks in 2001, as National Security Adviser she said, “I didn’t take this job to deal with things like this.”

So… the Homeland Security Advisory Council was established, and W hired Other Wife Fran Fragos. This relieved Condi of all the messy non-foreign policy items she DID. NOT. WANT.

Thus bifurcating our response to terror at the highest levels of government.

T.Boone seems a little weak in the math department.

The only math pickens’ thinks about is his bank balance.

Condi’s foreign policy and diplomacy skills have been talked about and examined for years and come up sorely lacking.

This is so unfair. Who had the wisdom to de-emphasize our counterterrorism policies in the months before 9/11 and then say, “”No one could have predicted”?

Who (along with Bush) then predicted that if we didn’t invade Iraq the “smoking gun” could be a “mushroom cloud”?

Who ran the principals’ meeting that validated and micromanaged torture?

Who pushed the Israelis to bomb Lebanon’s civilian infrastructure for a month?

Who has been the architect of talks on talks to develop a “political horizon” for a return to the “Roadmap” leading to a final Israeli-Palestinian settlement? And then held a one day summit on this in Annapolis?

Wait, what was your point again?

She was an expert (?) on the Soviet Union which no longer exists - ‘nuf said.

Hey maybe she could be McCain’s running mate then we could have expertise on the Soviet Union and chzechoslovakia

the Soviet Union which no longer exists -

Anybody told McBrain that?

What I want to know is what does “serious” mean? Condi makes a big deal out of that. Does “serious” mean that she threatened them with nuclear Armageddon unless they licked her boots? Is that what “serious” means?

Bob in HI

She was also George W Bush’s private foreign policy tutor — flown from Palo Alto to Austin every weekend during Bush’s second governor term, by George Schultz (he of the Princeton tiger tattooed on his butt).

Isn’t this depressing? What is the next step after depression?

Really, Condi - what DID you take the job for? People who find themselves in jobs that they are not prepared to do either leave (the smart ones) or they get fired. Unfortunately, competence has never been a pre-req in this Administration, so she’s been kept around.

McBush may have talked Clusterfuck into discontinuing talks which are what his opponent has been advocating.

Peter principle?

OT — new Rasmussen poll shows 11 point positive swing, Alaska’s Begich up by 9

McBush is attacking Obama once again for having “no military experience”….the following “mystery guy” reflects this military experience:

“He was a decorated veteran of the United States Army, having served in the Gulf War, where he was awarded a Bronze Star. He had been a top scoring gunner with the 25mm cannon of the light-armored Bradley Fighting Vehicles used by the U.S. 1st Infantry Division to which he was assigned. He served at Fort Riley, Kansas, before Operation Desert Storm. At Fort Riley, completed the Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC).”

Maybe his credentials coupled with his judgment qualify him above Obama….for president????!!!

I can hear the tutoring sessions now:
“No, Mr. President, Austria and Australia are two different countries. And one’s a continent too…”

Every day, she tells her boss future-history fables in which he is the Beloved Freedom-Giver, adored by billions worldwide. This suits his world-view and aspirational goals.

Scheherezade, but with nukes.

That’s really good!

She told george “it’s hard work”

Great news egregious - turning Alaska blue one candidate at a time! ;~)

Timothy McVeigh?

It can’t be Franklin Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, or James Madison, they had no military experience to speak of. It must be Tim MacVeigh.

Bingo…you win…chaching, chaching…

More on the Begich swing:

Alaska’s U.S. Senate race between Republican incumbent Ted Stevens and Anchorage Mayor Mark Begich has been a toss-up for several months now, but the Democratic challenger is now ahead 50% to 41%. When “leaners” are included, Begich leads 52%to 44%.

Begich began running his first television ads of the campaign on July 8 and the survey was conducted nine days later.

For each of the last three months, the candidates have been within two points of each other. Last month, Stevens was up two, 46% to 44%. In May, it the incumbent trailed by two. The month before, Stevens had a statistically insignificant 46% to 45% lead. Begich’s current lead is the largest the race has seen since Rasmussen polling began.

Stevens is the longest-serving Republican Senator in history. Begich was just six-years old when Stevens was first elected to the Senate in 1968.

Rasmussen link for Begich. Sorry o/t

Yes, that whole military experience thing is vastly overrated. Neither Lincoln nor FDR actually served in uniform and yet they presided over the nation’s two greatest wars.

I guess it’s no longer off topic if the poster is running with it :) Fellow Blue Am fan.

gmta!

Great news - we really need to get rid of old Ted. He’s useless.

Yeah…exactly…maybe McBush means this kind of military experience:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

Great minds think alike! Congrats to Hugh aand you.

Diego Garcia! I’ve long thought it was just about the perfect place for our neocon hatemongers to do evil things to people unfettered by any checks and balances. And now we find out a few grains of the truth. Per Glenn Greenwald today:

The BBC noted that the report also concluded that the British Government must not trust the word of the U.S. Government in light of prior deceit with regard to rendition:

The MPs also challenged the government to check more actively that Britain had not been used by the Americans for so called “rendition” flights — when detainees are taken to countries where bans on torture may not apply.

The UK had repeatedly accepted assurances that it had not, but it was discovered earlier this year that two rendition planes refuelled on the British territory of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean.

Earlier this year, the British Government suffered substantial embarrassment as a result of this:

Britain’s denials that its territories have been used for “extraordinary rendition” were dramatically undermined last night after the United Nations claimed that Diego Garcia has been used as a detention centre to hold US suspects. . . .

Diego Garcia is about as remote a place on earth as you can find, and it is completely controlled by the British & U.S. military. It is like GITMO but without the bad press. I hope there’s more to come, and I’ll bet it is not all about refueling airplanes.

Bob in HI

Great news - we really need to get rid of old Ted. He’s useless.

Small qualification. For criminality, we have Republicans. For useless, we have Democrats.

Nor Wilson, for that matter.

Clusterfuck’s govt. now says it’s OK to eat tomatoes but don’t snack on peppers…

Kinda like everything else they do.

Or you stay to try to keep a lid on the crimes and other illegal stuff you did.

Bob in HI

Hey, and this guy probably has military credentials that would make McBush swoon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

“I think we’ve done enough to create the thinnest possible veil of plausible deniability that we weren’t rushing headlong into attacking Iran without trying diplomacy first.”

:..British Government must not trust the word of the U.S. Government in light of prior deceit with regard to rendition” Very prettily put. How about this: “The U.S. Government is a pack of malicious and habitual liars; no one can believe anything they say.”

How about this military experience

http://judicial-inc,biz/82jjoh.....restal.htm

I’m getting an error page with that link.

Oh they’ve done enough alright:

Our Constitution is pretty much gone
America is hated around the world
Our government is illegally torturing people
They’re spying on us illegally
Democracy is dead
Diplomacy is just laughed at now

sorry it worked friday
It’s an article blaming the forrestal fire, that killed 134 sailers,
on McCain performing a wet start on his jet that cooked off a missle on the plane behind him which in turn hit his planes fuel tank and dropping the two thousand pounders he was carrying

Please be careful. some of the anti-McCain sites are from the same people who slimed Kerry with the swift boat stuff.

I don’t have specific links but I know that some of the Nam vets who comment here have described the situation on the Forestal as resulting in changes to the munitions handling on carriers that are still being followed today.

Bottomline: I would be very careful about random links that purport to show McCain at fault for the Forestal accidents. There is far more than enough information available in his post-military record to hammer him on.

Thanks

Digby is looking at the “Great Game” over at her place, before turning her attention to Mumbles Mukasey.

McSame keeps talking about “winning.” As Digby points out, no Western power has ever “won” in Afghanistan. But that statement needs an asterisk, and here it is: “Winning” requires more than chasing everyone away.

Alexander the Great defeated all his enemies– every last one. But he died (too much partying?) before he was able to consolidate his gains, and his empire immediately fell apart. He celebrated, as it were, too soon.

Remember that Napoleon “won” his little war with Russia. He streaked through eastern Europe all the way to Moscow. But in a short while, he discovered that there was a difference between “clear” and “hold.” He won his war, but he couldn’t consolidate his gain.

The Russians “won” their war to occupy Afghanistan. But they were unable to consolidate their conquest, just like Napoleon.

At home, I have a picture of the outcome of a battle between a giant python and an alligator. The python “won,” and had swallowed the alligator. But in its death throes, the alligator’s rear legs ripped open the python’s belly, splitting it in two. The python literally bit off more than it could “chew”– wait, I know, pythons don’t chew. What could one say? The python died of indigestion?

The term Pyrrhic victory also comes to mind.

Imperial powers lose these wars because they over-extend themselves– they bite off more than they can chew. They over-extend and exhaust themselves.

So “winning” requires some temporal perspective. We could have “won” if we had gathered up all our marbles after toppling the statue of Saddam. But no, Dickie wanted to control the oil. So we stayed.

So I agree with those who demand of McSame that he explain what “winning” means in the case of Iraq.

Bob in HI

There are some Nam vets here who have heard enough of McCain’s crashes of aircraft. I guess I’m gonna have to deal with this shit until after the election. If McCain had ever done anything to warrant discipline by the Navy they would have done it. The Navy does not take kindly to pilots or flight crew who damage multi-million dollar aircraft through recklessness or carelessness. The Navy also does not care who the pilot’s father is or was.

If someone comes up with something they can document that reflects negatively on McCain’s service we’ll deal with it at that time.

Jim Kiley’s site, veteransagainstmccain, or some shit like that, is a hate site. Kiley has a personal bone to pick with McCain, just like O’Neal had a personal bone to pick with Kerry.

hi pups-haven’t read comments yet, but saw the post and had to add what i saw on tv last night….an interview with condi–sorry don’t remember if it was cnn or msnbc, i’ll try to find the link and add it later if it’s on the site….

she emphasized, numerous times, that ’we’ were willing to talk, and are talking……that there is more than one group in iran that is involved in running their country and when one group doesn’t do what is right that the other may ’step in’ and steer the country in a good direction…….i sat there and thought, i don’t believe it, we’re backing the opposition to take over….a coup…we’ll cause a disruption (war) and back the opposition and put them in power. to date, i have poo poo’d the ’we’re gonna attack iran ’ memes here……i admit it……but now i heard a new way for us to do it and it came out of condi’s mouth on national tv. attack from within.

that’s pretty much what she was sayin……well, we tried, we talked, and they wouldn’t listen sooooooo, we had to do SOMEthing……..that’s what she said. i heard it, she repeated it a few times in the interview.

and you know i have good ears.

============

just got in. had a wonderful afternoon with friends in from out of town. took them to a talented silversmith’s house where they saw how he creates his magnificent jewelry, his website will be up in a little while, bookmark it….www.sterlingroots.com
jonathan silbert.
then we went to passion works studio at atco, a-how do i say it politically correct? don’t know, so, it’s a mentally retarded mentally retarded artists hub……..they make art…..it’s amazing…….our pbs station did a show on them, it won an emmy. www.passionworks.org
they make passion flowers and other things, my friends purchased MANY things there.
i know people/artists who work there that assist the artists who make the art…..

then to the local health food store, the farmacy, where another friend feeds the community with love and good food and good books……he bought a book, the same book i had passed onto him…and couldn’t find the other day.

and drives down twisty-turny tree and hill-lined roads where hal got to push the pedal to the metal…..there are no straight roads here but the 4-lane.
visit se ohio, every time someone visits i see how much there is to do here….all of it good and having to do with the people who live here. magnificent.
===
yes, i did that on purpose, i’m hoping when people google these places later it will lead to the lake…….the firedoglake is a fine place.we know that.

jonathan called me a ’weaver’ today, i said yeah i used to weave, he said, you know what i mean. yep, i most certainly do, connections between people, weave them, let them all lead one thing to another…..like teh google.

What a great post, Bob. I enjoyed the analysis and the great examples.

dmac..two of my girls went to college in Ohio and we used to drive through SE Ohio to get them to school every once in a while. I used to go to two amazing plant places. One was strictly houseplants(glasshouse something?); the other one was a chrysanthemum grower in Ashland(i realize this is not strictly SE Ohio, but). Amazing stuff.

toby i typed out this great response, and my browser quit–so,
here goes again….the first place you mention is=
www.glasshouseworks.com
rare plants, quirky couple a guys…….fun.

www.companionplants.com
years ago a group of catholic high school girls walked to school in front of my house in cincinnati-three hours away from here-as i left for work.
years later, a chance meeting at a restaurant here i found one of them, married to peter, they both run the place, amazing place………herbs……….order corsican mint, little iddy biddy tiny leaves……and lots of rosemary, throw it on the fire when grilling……amazing place……when perfect martha stewart was looking for perfect bay plants for her show, she ordered them from peter and lisa.

athens is a special place, friends and family try to draw me back where i came from, but this place is special, that’s why people stay here. come and visit.

(my other comment that got erased was eloquent, and did this place justice)