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Speaker Pelosi got questions about war and telecom immunity that put her on the spot, and after blaming all of Congress's failures on the Senate, took the opportunity to stand up and provide wandering, nonresponsive answers to the next question.
Why?
She's a weak Speaker with a serious internal challenge to her authority from the Maryland conservative Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, who is very popular among House Dems. He's there for them and he's a very able manager. He staffs their offices and raises money for them religiously.
Better to run out the clock and talk about "expanding our universe" (whuh?) than acknowledge the knives at your back and the fact that Democrats in the House do not believe as we, or the majorities of people in the country, do.
The shortest solution is an organizing solution, and it sounds like the long road. . . but it's the short road. We need to get better at grassroots candidate recruitment and training, starting this November.
We can't not do it.
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Thanks Pach.
Heya gang.
You nailed it Pach. There needs to be a large number of unemployed Congress Critters come November.
Clean ‘em out.
They don’t listen and they don’t serve.
She was a huge disappointment as the speaker today
and as Speaker of the House. She was lucky Gore came.
Hey Pach. She’s not just weak, she’s an indictable co-conspirator. I want the ICC to file charges against Bush, Cheney and Pelosi. She was the one person in the world best poised to end the atrocities of the Bush Administration. Since she didn’t end it, she is just as guilty as they are.
She has never been a good speaker, small “s”. It has always hurt her power, and that much was on display today, not least because of the contrast with Gore immediately following her.
From a leftie/progressive perspective, Steny and Rahm hovering in the background is about the only positive aspect to Nancy remaining as the Speaker.
Of course, none of ‘em are Tip O’Neills or Sam Rayburns or John McCormicks. Hell, even Tom Foley was better which ain’t saying much in the way of positive
Her hands are not at all clean, that is not my point at all. Just trying to take a larger view. Talking to good people I know inside the caucus, the fact is, the caucus is conservative.
There are larger issues and forces in play than any individual personal talent set or character.
Nancy could have garnered a lot of support (both this year and today) if she had just been honest. But Nancy is not being honest at all. She has to go.
I want Democrats who have respect, even a touch of healthy fear of their base. What we are witnessing this year even in a time of victory for Dems is an assault on reason, common sense, and liberty.
No more.
Good Morning Pachacutec and Firedogs,
I have some basic questions - forgive my ignorance -
Is that the Majority Leader’s job ? staffing offices and raising money - is that under his purview ? aacckk ! I assume so, but how does that weaken Pelosi ? is she not doing some of the things a Speaker should be doing ?
crikey, if I had the proper question, I’d know the answer - just trying to understand the dynamics better
I have known many politicians at a personal level and feel elected office as a public servant is an honorable thing. However, one cannot serve two masters and lobbyists have become too entrenched which has badly damaged the term “politician.”
One would think it is becoming increasingly more difficult for a good person to choose that title.
And those who show up, win.
Good Afternoon Pach.
Expanding our universe? I thot it was doing that without her help.
Or is she presuming to broaden our teency weency, itty bitty little minds?
CroMagnonificent project, Madam Speecher.
Her comments fit right in with that “aspirational goals” $#&% already floating around in the ethers of gummint circles.
Enough already!
Good on ya, Pach.
Actually, in my opinion, she has only been a bit player in this whole disaster.
She has no way near used the power of her position, for anything.
Pelosi raises money, it’s how she got to where she is as well.
But Hoyer is the first one to call you when you get a nomination, the first to do a fundraiser for you, and he has a machine of people who populate offices with staff. Staffers, collectively, are the people who run the Hill, and just as the Bushies know, personnel is policy.
As a manager, he’s very competent, there for you, responsive and individualized with his attention, or so I am told. Think of the good and less good managers you’ve known and worked for. He’s good on that level, and it builds his power.
With Steny’s hand picked and recruited people running offices all over, his reach is long. This is why recruitment is the only solution, at all levels.
Agreed.
I still see her as the gramma insisting the children sit at their desks with their hands folded - no more, maybe less. It’s as if, whenever things start getting difficult to manage, gramma leaves the room to regain her composure.
Replacement, please.
amen
Excellent post, Pach. I’m in complete agreement.
That was a bizarre moment.
“Alvy, you’re in Brooklyn. Brooklyn is not expanding.”
What might you have heard from your good people inside the caucus about the reaction to the StrangeBedfellows ads in the Washington Post?
which is why it will be nice to get him out of office — if we can.
I’d be willing to sacrifice one house member to the Republicans to get rid of him
(so long as Rahm doesn’t take his place)
thank you and amen on recruitment.
i disagree with this because i have seen NO evidence of it. she may use the pretense of weakness in an attempt to cover her own complicity (and curry favor with the netroots) - but that is just what all dems have been doing. they pretend they are too weak to do anything constructive or even block the worst excesses of the republicans. but almost all their actions serve to support and further the goals of the republicans.
i’d love some evidence to the contrary - but right now, all the evidence i am aware of leads me to conclude that pelosi is lying.
oh, and i almost forgot to say…. i just read through the last thread and i need to let all you pups know that you give me hope. you see through the bs and call it like it is.
xxxooo to all.
I’d read it’s Emanuel who wants the Speakership, but anyway you cut it the current DINO troika veered right and will stay there! Thats where the money/power is, not with the citizenry or the Constitution. As the saying goes, power corrupts, the Beltway corrupts absolutely.
Nothing yet.
I agree.
Late to the party as usual lately.
Bnuck, here’s my question. I agree with your premise that it’s time to clean house, beginning in November.
But wait! What are the mechanics of that? Candidates are already in place, many of them seeking re-election. To clean house of them means either not voting or voting for their (Republican?) opponents.
I think we need to get and stay very clear about what’s needed and exactly how we’re gonna do that. It’s my impression that the die has been cast for November 2008. I can see no good way out of the hand we’ve dealt ourselves (with the exception of voting out Pugs and replacing them with real, honest to goodness Dems — which may or may not be possible, depending on how carefully they’ve been vetted).
How now?
Wow. I couldn’t disagree with you and Busted more.
I think history will be much less kind. She has been in the unique position to put a check on the imperial presidency. But instead of acting to preserve checks and balances, she has trotted along next to the criminals offering cover and support at every turn.
In any event, under President Obama, Emanuel & his ilk inside the Democratic caucus, may well be in for an accountability shock. Or so I hope.
Morning Pach. Question came up here at my table —- was anyone surprised that pelosi threw the senate as a whole and the 17 senate traitors under the bus?
Must be getting mighty crowded under that bus, I’m thinking . . . .
I’m hearing Hoyer is the one really on the move, the most popular. It makes sense to me that Hoyer did the telecom deal for the secure funding infrastructure from the telecoms to feed people money and solidify his power base.
He’s an institution man, a true believer in incumbency protection. It’s probably the only thing he believes in.
No, she’s done it before, though today wsa the most direct I’ve heard her be on it, though she may have been as blunt about it before and I missed it.
That would pre-suppose that potential President Obama disagrees with Rahm on most issues. Haven’t seen much if any indication of that being so. That Chicago connection comes into play.
i think the same can be said for pelosi - she’s just far, far more effective at hiding it.
oh man, I sure hope you are wrong
The dems went to sleep about 30 years ago, convinced that they would never lose-hubris came along and kicked them out. The repigs started organizing at the grass roots level back in 1964, it took 20+ years, but they managed to take over the house and senate, then they elected a repig president.*paradise* but that paradise proved to be shortlived, in only 7 short years, the repigs managed to outcorrupt the dems, doing in 7 years what took the dems 50 years to accomplish. Along the way they showed their own brand of hubris. Instead of chasing girls, they chased boys-and several of that self loathing bunch got caught-common corruption was not enough for the repigs, they went for bribes-because for repigs, money is their god, and they never can get enough-got caught in record numbers, and are either in jail, going to jail, or still being investigated-before being found guilty and sent to jail. Now it is once more the dems turn, the 40 year cycle continues, dems to repigs and back to dems. Can we,this time, get off the roller coaster and elect some people who are honest, and who will not let DC corrupt them. We can but hope.
the only solution is to target Steny and bring him down in the next primary.
it has to be very well funded and very well organized. he will fight like a cornered and smart dog, and he will call every chit he has. remember that the district includes many people who work at the NSA and are susceptible to the argument that wire tapping is good for the country.
of course, some of them are just taking the work they can find.
Oh, Lessig’s gonna be gooood.
Until Obama’s triangulation/non-response on FISA, I thought he was the second comming; JFK and MLK wrapped in a pretty package, not the Chicago ward politician he seems to be now. Is he miles ahead of most politician; yes. But that is damming by faint praise in my book. Because Obama wants two terms as prez, don’t look to any accountability prosecution’s from his admin.. Live within the law, yes; give up Imperial prerogative, not so much!
what a joke! does she just say whatever she thinks will work for the moment and think we won’t remember what she did last year (or the year before that)?
here’s a blast from the past i posted recently, but really belongs in this thread: jane from march 2006: Nancy Pelosi Should Act First, Criticize Later
So do I but right now, I doubt if I am.
She can blame the senate till she’s blue in the face, but the fact remains that the FISA amendment bill originated in the HOUSE, and she personally could have stopped it or changed it.
And all funding for the war in Iraq originates in the HOUSE, and she as Speaker can control the form of those appropriations bills.
lessig has gone over the edge. i used to thing very highly of him. no more. will grab some recent quotes and links if there is an interest.
that said - no one does what lessig can do with a power point presentation.
So is Pelosi’s filibustering at NRN her attempt to ward off a move by Steny to go after her job next January, telling the Blue Dogs and others “No, I’m not going to pander to the DFHs . . .”?
It’s rare for a sitting speaker to lose their job to another member of their own party, absent some kind of scandal. Still, when you’ve learned to live in fear . . .
FWIW my old Chicago friend & and seasoned veteran inside the formidable Organizing Institute swears there is no love lost between Obama & Rahm.
Pach….I am here and being inside the room…you are spot on, and captured the moment…..the troops were getting restless….when bamm..VP Gore showed up and literally saved the day….and saved Pelosi rump!
In my view, she’s protecting her position by not throwing her own caucus under the bus, blaming the Senate, and not allowing Hoyer to outflank her as more supportive of the caucus, or trying to stave off the challenge he presents. She also deflects by talking about the urgency in electing Obama.
Lots of deflection going on.
Whoops - meant this as a reply to Arbusto’s comment at 40.
her weakness from the jump now leaves her weak period
all Hoyer has to say is she went to Austin, whereas he himself ‘would never go near the place’. you can bet Hoyer, et al ‘booga booga’ them about us all the damn time
-uh- how to explain that i agree with you…..hmmmm.
“leave the room,” figuratively, as in agreeing to enable potential troublemakers (trouble because of HER lack of skill and toughness necessary for being an effective Speaker) instead of standing up for what is right and proper governance?
yes?
i hope this doesn’t muddy the waters further.
We say organizing and people-powered politics is the answer. Agreed.
We have a Prez candidate and DNC that is putting this into tangible action at levels never before seen in America. It is happening right now as we type.
Obama knows by doing this he is checking and balancing himself through us. He allows a group to flourish on his Web site that opposes some of his positions, and then even interacts with that group. Of the $52 million WE raised in June, the average donation went down significantly to approx $68.
Putting pressure on Obama is good. He wants this and knows he’s going to get it by doing what he’s doing. I can’t understand why I’ve seen so many comments at my favorite blogs about looking at Bob Barr or not voting for Obama. Are you kidding me?!?
I believe grassroots, bottom-up organizing is the solution to our corrupt political system, and that’s why I’m enthusiastically supporting Obama and Blue America candidates. Hopefully most Liberals will do the same. We need everyone to make this work.
And speaking of local organizing and building a progressive infrastructure —
Howie’s here with Blue America
Blue America upstairs. No guest but Howie with some questions and ruminations.
So much for secret meetings in the Congress.
Pelosi will never recover credibility.
no. really, really serious.
but that doesn’t mean i don’t respect that you see it differently.
thanks, Pach.
we should target Hoyer, Emmanuel and Pelosi, in that order. research should be done as to practicality of this strategy and use cold, objective, logical tactics.
i drink your milkshake. bar fight. take no prisoners.
otherwise we’ll be pissing in the wind twenty years from now.
Hey while you are here please Digg this post!!
the situation from a pundit 60 years ago and still applicable: The ship of state is sinking and the politicians are in
the hold bailing with tea (paper coffee) cups. Every 25 minutes they stop and demand five minutes of applause,
thumbs up. we can’t do it all this year, but we need to make Hoyer give us some respect.
he needs to be sent a “love letter” (metaphorically speaking, a la Frank in “Blue Velvet”).
It’s outrageous that the Netroots Nation organizers would let Nancy Pelosi get saved by Al Gore. Promising attendees a two-hour keynote/question session with the Speaker, and then *poof* producing the MOST popular netroots politician to save her ass from the DFHs.
If I were there (and I am glad I am not!) I would be at the office demanding my money back, and getting on a plane home right now.
Another capitulation to the powers-that-be by Gina Cooper. Hurray!
ever tried emailing hoyer ?? try it sometime .. eyeopening it is ..
It’s a matching set:
‘Worst President in the History of the United States.’
goes perfectly with:
‘Worst Speaker of the House in the History of the United States.’
And not I’m not being ‘cute’ an argument can and should be made that I am correct. What other Speaker has stood by while treason and utter contempt for the law has been the order of the day from the President and his cronies?
Answer: None.
Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan will be asking Miss Nancy’s constituents if they are happy with her ‘good work…’
Stay tuned.
Grassroots/community work should be a requirement of good citizenship (don’t look to me, I’m to jaded) Our whole political system just leads to special interests and corruption. By the time a politician has worked up from city council or county supervisor to state legislature, they’ve already sold their sole. When you read blogs such as kos, you see that winning a race equals campaign contributions, not much else. Thanks to Rehnquist and the Burger court, we now have a republic based even more on money than citizens
If Jane or Howie ever ran for office, there would some issues that each of us would disagree on. They would do things from time to time where we’d all wonder why they’re doing that, just as Russ Feingold and Chris Dodd do now. I remember some occasions where I didn’t understand what Paul Wellstone was thinking.
Again, if the answer to political corruption lies in organizing people, then Obama is the most exciting Prez candidate in my lifetime, and possibly ever, considering the sheer number of people getting involved.
You don’t seem to think that empowering people through political organizing is most effective solution to reducing political corruption. I do, so yes, we’ll have to respectfully disagree.
i DO think that “that empowering people through political organizing is most effective solution to reducing political corruption.”
i just DON’T think that’s what obama is doing.
I would correct your statement about Steny Hoyer, being supported by ‘them’.
In the last 10 years can you name any act or word of Hoyer’s that achieved any publicly acclaim?
No.
The “them” that kept Emanuel and elected Hoyer were run by a small cabal of the same Dems that consistently voted for Bush policies, and were put in place by Emanuel steering the DCCC to support only more white business type candidates of like minds.
We’ve been over this a hundred times.
Hoyer and Reid are controlled more by the donors of the DSCC and the DCCC than by their constituents or the voters.
Quit elevating their credibility - remember it was Hoyer who first said they had to strip the Iran provision to help pass the troop provision and then stripped it too.
And it’s pure Hoyer and his very special interests that demanded the ‘oil law’ be part of the benchmarks.
If I hear one more Democrat lie about what that bill really means, as many have done, I’ll never vote Democratic again. I’ve been on the verge anyway - Obama and FISA may have already accomplished that.
Look the damn thing up and read it!
It’ll present a picture of Hoyer inner mind not much different than Cheney.
It takes away the Iraqis ownership rights of all new drilling, and most wells already drilled. Iraqis will retain a small percentage of pre-drilled wells will have most of the profits taken away due to ‘new management costs.
Hoyer and Cheney support plundering/stealing the Iraqis few remining natural resouces and assets.
What they also do is to allow Exxon and BP to establish -on Iraqi soil and along the Iranian border - rigs to plunder Irans resources too.
Delay and Cheney are mice compared to the rats in the Democratic party now.
She’s a weak Speaker with a serious internal challenge to her authority from the Maryland conservative Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, who is very popular among House Dems. He’s there for them and he’s a very able manager. He staffs their offices and raises money for them religiously.
It is very important that Hoyer and Emanuel not gain any more power than they already have.
Pachacutec, do you have any sources for this?
i’m a political independent .. and it’s long been at the point there is no plain good choice .. there’s a bad choice .. and a worse choice ..
common people no longer have any representation .. imo .. the corporations have bought the gov’t lock stock and barrel ..the recent fisa vote demonstrated that exactly …
the question is what is/can be done to fix it ..
Yes, rather impeccable, but not for attribution. At least, specifically, for Hoyer’s popularity and operation, and his intent to become Speaker.
The rest, about why Pelosi behaved as she did is me putting the pieces together, my interpretation.
Okay, sellise, so what do you call what his campaign is doing?
Because from out here, it has people involved in politics who didn’t get involved before.
Heck, one person I worked with is going to go work for his campaign.
oh, i think he’s great at organizing people and bringing them in - i just think he’s doing it not to empower the people, but to empower himself.
what i hope is that it will get away from him and he won’t be able to control it. because the so many passionate people who have been brought together will decide to empower themselves.
fingers crossed!
Hi all, late to the party here. Was just reading the last couple of threads–thanks for liveblogging a bit those of you who are at NRN.
I know Congress sucks. I can’t believe Nancy Pelosi actually showed.
Silver lining: There is a Netroots Nation and it’s drawing such high profile people. That’s big. Just the few threads I read and the reactions and the noise etc seems more reflective of how our country feels about our “leadership” than anything you will ever see on MSM.
Sorry, Paracutec, but your “interpretation” is a bit off. First, I wouldn’t label Hoyer a “conservative.” Rather, the more technical term is “hack.” Second, Hoyer doesn’t “staff their offices.” Every member of the House of Representatives is given a budget for staff and does their own hiring — often people from their home district. Hoyer only has control over his own staff in his personal office and a couple of slots that go with being the majority leader. Hoyer may be popular with the center-right wing of the Democratic Caucus — representatives who might not naturally support Pelosi. I’m sure Hoyer uses his influence with K Street lobbyists to raise money for these folks. Like almost any Member, I’m sure Hoyer would like to be speaker someday. And as the Democratic caucus grows to include more center-right Democrats from previously Republican districts in 2008, his influence in the caucus will grow. That’s why it’s absolutely imperative that Democrats elected from solid Democratic districts be as progressive as possible. That’s why it’s so important to replace hacks like Albert Wynn with folks like Donna Edwards.
They hire their staff, but get the lists of approved people and referrals from him.
It’s not a secret.
Re: conservative, I’ll let his record speak, but in a sense I could agree with you. He believes fundamentally in being a company many, not in any political ideology or principles, but that in itself is a rather conservative mindset, although one not so much drawn from traditional political discourse as it is tied to conserving traditions and power in an unchanging guard of an institution.
I watch her interview with Blitzer the other day and just looking at her,reminds me of that Joan Rivers commercial where she asked “am I smiling’in Mrs. Pelosi case her question should be”am I smiling while I’m lying?”
NO source, no story. You can’t expect us to believe you as a matter of faith.
Mob mentality (mafia) only the strong get respect.
Right on..change can only come from committed politicians that see the old ways of doing business as archaic.
Define what is best and wrap it in the flag.
Pach, at some point don’t we have to start thinking not just in terms of primaries, but in terms of promoting leadership in the caucus?
We can primary Steny, and Rahm, and Pelosi, but if the next person in line leadership-wise is just another Steny clone, we’re right back where we started.
At what point do we start fighting for our leaders in the caucus? When do we start putting our dollars into someone like Barney Frank so that they can start moving up in the ranks?
Then don’t. This ain’t my first time writing. I have a track record.
We do all simultaneously, but we’ve been fighting the leaders, but we’ll only get better leaders when the people who can vote for and empower and choose the leaders are better.
Politics is about machines. We have to recognize and diagnose the machine to beat it. We fight on issues but we’re not doing organized candidate recruitment.
omg. i thot i’d start easy by working the thread backwards.
Pachacutec, you are an absolute TREASURE! ;->
Oh, and Amen!
in re: 84/85 p.s., i tried reading higher, backwards. egad. are u o.k. Pach? sounds as if loonies are on the prowl and out for blud, but then i’m on a strict diet and kinda loony meself rt now.
tis/twas a full moon. please take care.
“They hire their staff, but get the lists of approved people and referrals from him.
It’s not a secret.”
Sorry, but someone is feeding you a line. I was a chief of staff in the House for a Member of Congress for many years and that’s not how it works.
Concur.
She, and too many of the dem’s we erected in ‘06, have failed.
Across the board.
On TOO many of the issues, they were obviously complicit, and accomplance’s to, the deeds done. And so they backed legislation to protect themselves.
Now, as to HOW to fix this, given November ‘08 is pretty well in the bag, I go no clue.
Any Buehler?
*G*
Spot on hoss.
Thanks for saying it.
WASHINGTON — Democrats promised big changes when they took power on Capitol Hill in 2006, and they delivered — when it comes to making over the cafeteria.
Since taking her post, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has pursued what she calls “greening the Capitol” through a smoking ban and the introduction of gourmet foods in the lunchroom.
But the health kick has elicited grumblings from colleagues in Congress. Gone are the days of meatloaf and Jell-O, replaced by mahi mahi, brie and baguettes.
“I like the food we had before,” House Minority Leader John Boehner said Wednesday morning. “I like real food, food we can pronounce the name of.”
The new cafeteria has eco-friendly coffee cups, napkin dispensers that dispense one napkin at a time and elaborate recycling centers stocked with biodegradable straws.
But staffers complain those straws melt in their coffee — and as they pick from choices such as fresh fruit, pan-roasted Chesapeake rockfish with yellow pepper relish and leg of lamb with almond couscous, the griping quietly draws on.
“This is silly feel-good crap by a bunch of do-gooders. … We should be worried about the housing crisis, the unemployment rates and the national debt,” one high-level Democrat said.
“I really don’t like Nanny Nancy telling me what I can and cannot eat for lunch,” one Republican aide said via e-mail. “If I want to eat unhealthy, I should have that choice.”
A sample lunch on Capitol Hill might include a couple wedges of brie and cheddar, a few grapes, a strawberry and saltines.
“The health nannies’ arbitrary ban on legal and heavily taxed products bodes ill for the future marketing of Mountain Dew and moon pies,” Republican Michigan Rep. Thaddeus McCotter said.
Not everyone is appalled by the fruit and cheese fare.
“A big jump from high school cafeteria to fancy-pants gourmet,” said Caryn Schenewerk, staffer for Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. “I just wish my pay improved.”