You may recall that the McCain campaign recently had to sheepishly disassociate itself from a fund raiser held by former Texas GOP nominee Clayton Williams when it was revealed in 1990 the latter had told the awful rape joke made most infamous in that same time period by Bobby Knight ("if inevitable lie back and enjoy it").
However, now it has been re-discovered that not long before, during his first Senate run in 1986 the Ol’ Maverick made a joke on the same subject that achieves the dubious distinction of being even more offensive:
Did you hear the one about the woman who is attacked on the street by a gorilla, beaten senseless, raped repeatedly and left to die? When she finally regains consciousness and tries to speak, her doctor leans over to hear her sigh contently and to feebly ask, “Where is that marvelous ape?”
Yeah, classy.
Naturally, McCain, well-his campaign, denied that ever saying such a thing the offensive gag.
"It’s pretty obvious to us that this is a politically motivated sideshow," Torrie Clarke, McCain’s spokeswoman at the time, said back in 1986. Till this day it has never been proven definitively true or false whether the Senator ever said the line.
Nice to see that Torrie Clarke cut her spurs lying for McCain before lying for Bush and Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. Good training.
Sam Stein at the Huffington Post did something that modern journalist covering McCain don’t often do, practiced journalism:
The Huffington Post reached out to the original reporter in that story, Norma Coile (who wrote about the response to the rape joke in the Tuscon Citizen) to find out if she thought it was true.
"I’m not sure exactly what the wording was of the joke, but something was said. Some joke involving a rape and ape was said. Enough women repeated it to me at the time and the McCain campaign had a non-denial denial," said Coile, now with the Arizona Daily Star. "It came after his ‘Seizure World’ joke, in which he referred to the [retirement community] Leisure World as Seizure World… I just think it reinforced this idea that John McCain is humor-challenged. Whatever his qualities, he seems to have a tin ear for how these jokes will go over."
Ah yes, the "Seizure World" joke. And as Stein points out, there was also the Chelsea Clinton joke in 1998, he odiously declared before a GOP crowd: "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."
And then there was the most joke about how sending cigarettes to Iran was a good way to kill them.
Given his track record, there seems no reason to doubt McCain made this incredibly awful joke about rape. Of course, the likelihood of this being looked into beyond we Dirty Effing Hippies? Low.
Yes, disenchanted Clinton voters this is the guy you want to vote for. The guy against abortion rights, against non-Ozzie & Harriet Adoptions, against equal pay but totally for more of those awesome wars and really awful slanderous jokes.
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why anyone would think mcsame would make a good president is beyond my comprehension. but apparently, if polls are to be believed, there are.
1,705 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen selise and the early mornin’ Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Even the fascists don’t think McCrazy would make a good President…but that’s the point of fascist ideology, to reduce democratic government to a currency laundry for tax dollars from the masses to the oligarchy. The fact that he tells bad jokes badly, is an angry masogonist and barly has two functioning brain cells left is all a bonus.
And don’t you believe the polls that the corporate media are sponsorin’ lately, the pollin’ samples are skewed…if McCrazy gets within single digets in the general election we’re lookin’ at election fraud again. This is why we need ta crank up the heat on Obama from the left, so he hasta tack back from his foray into the dark side before November.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE BASTARDS WILL ONLY DO WHAT WE TELL ‘EM TA DO IF WE ARE WILLIN’ TA TAKE ‘EM DOWN WITH US!!
The guy should not be president, Senator or any other bloody elected office he is a demented old man.u888888888777777777777777777777777777y
(The cats are typing)
I understand that he is going to Yugoslavia next week to meet with Tito
I can’t believe I am correcting the spelling of and ethnic slur, but unless the intent was to show McCain demeaning fish, the caption should read Polacks.
Oh, and not to belabor the obvious, but no thinking individual in 1999 really thought GWB was qualified (or had a prayer) to be President.
The facts that we were right, and that the election was at best questionable (STOLEN), in no way mitigates the past 7.5 years.
”I’ll be here the whole year. Molest your waitress and try the veal. You’ve been a great audience.”
Looking at the two candidates for pres I have to wonder just what in hell is so F’ed up with our system that we end up with a pathetic and demented old man and a pseudo populist panderer for our two choices. Wife person says she is gong to vote for the green party this time through as she is not going to vote for phony candidates promoted by corporate america.
Besides the one only tells crude jokes and the other does not understand satire.
Right you are. It’s all because I, of course, am completely innocent of ever being exposed to such jokes growing up in the Midwest in the 1970s. ;-)
Citizen nomolos:
That cover of “The New Yorker” was NOT a satire but a slick takedown of Obama designed ta sell magazines…it even deflected attention from the very good cover story of the “political education” of Obama. Now I am VERY concerned about Obama’s willingness ta scapegoat the progressive left and his acceptance of some of the beltway wisdom about the general political direction of the mass of voters but I don’t think Obama is a coerporate fascist…he’s jest a “liberal” opportunist in the mold of JFK and Clinton.
Obama was a clearly a centrist from the beginning and I said over and over that he was going to pee all over the liberals in the GE. It was obvious.
Citizen RiezFischer:
“Centerist” or “liberal”…synonyms for political opportunists.
Comrade Norske we must agree to disagree. I believe the New Yorker (still in my mailbox) is satire, poor satire, but satire none the less. As for obama being in the mould of JFK and clinton1 I again disagree. I believe he is a corporate whore through and through, as clinton1 was/is but JFK was definitely at odds with some of the MIC…. remember big biz (and the CIA) knocked him off.
Geriatric jokes in poor taste for McSame
Citizen nomolos:
Yeah, big business and the CIA knocked ‘im off but it was more in response to the audacity of the Joe Kennedy clan ta pretyend to ascention to the upper class.
And, no I don’t think Obama is a corporate “whore” any more’n any non- upperclass, liberal politician is…
Agreed, the term “satire” is oft used as cover for offensive material.
Me, I think the New Yorker cover was not so deliberate a ‘take-down’ as you suggest, and more likely a tone-deaf failure.
Much in the way that I will never have the shared experience that neutralizes the word ‘n*gger’ in conversation.
But surely if that were the case do you not think that the present occupant of the WH would have met the same fate.
Hmmmm. wasn’t the bush clan fingerprints all over the JFK killing
CNN just showed an interview with the loony responsible for the billboards that say something to the effect of, “Don’t vote for a Democrat” complete with photo of the twin towers. If ya missed it, he’s the personification of every stereotype about thugs that exists. And…………his website is hawking some republic song he wrote to defray the expense of the billboards. Forkin’ @arsehole got exactly the media coverage he wanted!
Please Dog! Just make them go away!
This election cycle, if nothing else should dispel the illusions that race, age or gender are substantial factors in identity.
At the end of the day, we will have another career politician from a privileged upbringing as President.
The choice is clear in my mind nonetheless.
Obama has a far better chance of favorably surprising me than McCain.
Good morning, pups. It’s MoDo, Egan and Friedman today. MoDo has her little claws all sharpened, and she’s hissed “May We Mock, Barack?” She says it would seem a positive for Barack Obama that he is hard to mock. But is it another sign that he’s trying so hard to be perfect that it’s stultifying? Mr. Egan says “They Get It,” and that the furor over this week’s New Yorker cover boiled down to whether those folks in fly-over country would get it. Irony, it turns out, does cross the Hudson River. Mr. Friedman’s column is titled “So Popular and So Spineless.” He says there was something filthy about Russia’s and China’s vetoes of the American-led U.N. Security Council effort to impose sanctions on Robert Mugabe’s ruling clique in Zimbabwe.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee and tea are ready, and I’ve got Thomas’ English muffins that just popped out of the toaster. Try the pear preserves — yummy. There is no joy in Mudville this morning. John Barrow won, handily. I’m fairly convinced that there was an enormous cross-over vote, and that Republicans chose to vote in the Democratic primary to keep one of their own. Why do I say that? The Republicans had a 3-person race to see who their candidate would be for the GA 12 with a total of 16,725 votes cast. The Democrats had a 2-person race to see if we could dump RINO Barrow, with 57,128 votes cast. There’s going to be a run-off to see who we’re going to be putting up against Saxby Chambliss. Enjoy the English muffins. Me, I think I’ll go out in the garden and eat worms.
They would have fucked it up. Kennedy would still be alive today.
S&L fiasco and the Keating Five ripped off the people and now the taxpayer will bailout Freddie and Fannie. This is the repeating corporate rape of America as forewarned by Jefferson. Gaming the system in the past eight years, we need a clean break from dysfunctional behavior, thoughts and abject stupidity and selfishness of opportunist. As we are well aware here the “Asselephants,” have no shame and are lame. McCain is simply more of the same………
Like the McCain piece….somethings don’t make a very good joke.
Actually Bush was right up to his eyebrows in the JFK killing, him and his eli skullduggers.
Marion -
You were my first thought after hearing the news………..just so sorry for those of you in the area who deserve better. :-(((
It’s a given that republics will do ANYTHING to win an election. Actually, it’s their 11th commandment – Thou shalt not lose an election (the only one out of the 11 they’re guaranteed to keep).
morning!
wonderful nice weather here this morning, cool and breezy. delightful, siting here watching the butter melt on that english muffin, with a feline footwarmer. life is good, except for the real world part.
sorry about barrow’s win, Marion. next time.
Citizen nomolos:
What are ya talkin’ about…the Bush family is a charter member of the oligarchy fer Christ’s sake??!! JFK was a a Catholic anti-communist who ducked the censoship vote on Tailgunner Joe…Bobby was on McCathy’s staff fer God’s sake! Joe was a bootlegger who used the “New Deal” opportunities of political realiegnment ta get a social position that threatened ta give the blue bloods a collective stroke…INCLUDIN’ the grandfather of the current occupant.
I believe these “polls” are used to manipulate the electorate! Everybody wants to vote for the “winner.” The massive brainwashing by corporate media of the American people is achieved via the little black boxes. The Iraq Oil Plot is the realization and manifestation that, we have been fooled….. again! Big Time.
LOL! Ain’t it the truth… We got another nice rain last night, so at least there’s a little bit of good news from this part of the world.
This is just one source, among many, showing the connections between JFK murder and George Bush. The bushies have been dirty for a long, long time.
They were damn good rum runners and I’ll take rum running over mass murder any day.
Speaking of polls, this one, featured prominently in the NYT today, doesn’t seem to be particularly helpful in any way.
I wonder if Johnny McTelepromter’s name is on the following list:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/…..038;page=1
If not, I bet his wife’s is along with George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their friends. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it warms the cockles of my heart knowing the wealthy are protecting their money overseas.
Assholes.
Washington Journal this morning
7am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls on record inflation rates
7:45am – Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), 1st District, House Energy Working Group & Rep. John Peterson (R-PA), 5th District, House Energy Working Group
8:30am – Jeffrey Levi, Trust for America’s Health, Executive Director
— childhood obesity
9:15am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls
Yes dear, Morning Joe was citing the NYT poll. I consider it race baiting myself. Bingo!
That one warmed the cockles of me ol’ heart, it did. The moral of the story bein’……..don’t. piss. off. the. little. people! *GGGG* Did ya happen to notice how slow on the uptake of going after the twits the US has been in comparison to other countries?
Moves like that by the reich wing of our country shows they have NOTHING to run on this year. Fear is all they’ve ever had and because 80% of Americans are not happy with the direction the Bush Regime has taken our country, billboards such as that one will only make Americans push the neocons under the surface of the water now. We will drown them once and for all.
The heirs to the benefactors of JFK’s assassination quite possibly are in the White House!!
we’ll never know who’s on that list, not the names that matter anyway. Hmm Phil Gram for starters?
haven’t read the entire post or resonses but has anyone mentioned mccain insists on calling Czechoslovakia a counry?
is this man even dumber then bush himself?
barak has plenty of amo against mccain, he needs to use it
*stroking my warm cockles*
Oh yes, the whistleblowers are coming out of the woodwork exposing the sickness (and the underbelly!) of the uber wealthy of America. They can run but they can’t hide (their money) from those who don’t have a pot to piss in!
*jogging on treadmill*
I’m getting ready. ;-)
Elliott, former Enron Senator Phil Gramm who is Johnny McTeleprompter’s economic adviser (shhhhhhhhhhh, no one is supposed to know that one yet) is a UBS lobbyist and I’m sure his best buddies (if not himself!) is on the list of those uber wealthy who are hiding their money overseas!
And the rich doesn’t pay their taxes on their money? Poppycock! We’ve been lying about that for years now. Spit.
Jefferson Quote:
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people.
for those watching Morning Joe!!!
It makes you wonder if Georgie gave Americans their stimulus checks knowing the banks were going to steal them out from under us in a big huge collapse? Hey, could be. Maybe this is why Georgie called these checks a “simulus checks” yesterday in his presser? LOL
wow, I have seen prescient quotes from Jefferson but that one is amazing
‘
Jefferson had to be an alien, he got so many things right and was so far ahead of his time it is unbelievable
so if Jefferson was right, and it appears he was, what is the answer and solution to the fed?
state minted money?
government minted money?
what?
in addition, they took office in a coup, they were not elected they were installed by the legacy of reagan and bush sr
we are a government overthrown
off for a bit, be back later
Saw an interview with Mayer (sp?) in the wee hours this morning and either she or the guy moderating were talking about some group of ethical republics (can’t believe I used those two words in conjunction with each other) were keeping records. (Or something to that effect.) Please Dog! at some point in time, will people with documentation start spilling the beans?
Off to the big town with visiting company for the day…..picking up a reserved copy of her book. Y’all hang in there!
Jefferson’s attitude on banks was very influential and survived him.
Andrew Jackson’s main goal during his Presidency was to kill the National Bank.
And he ultimately succeeded.
sure hope those beans get spilled in time for prosecutions.
Nice you have company, have fun
and bye perris
then they should have done what was done to nixon, it was the republicans that told him he had to step down and these republicans have a far more important case against bush
if they are there they needed to step in long ago, not wait until he is out of office
bye elliot!
you know how hard it is to hit that off button but I am doing it right now
“….perception are never the realities in the war of words.. the prize is the brainwashed mind and the money that is
earned, stolen?”A line from my a song I wrote entitled: “Conditioned Minds”
uh, no. Disenchanted Clinton voters want to be able to vote for Clinton…. and don’t see Obama as qualified to be president.
And normal people (i.e., non-Obots) don’t see a penchant for ‘tasteless’ humor as something disqualifying from the Oval Office. Of course, Obots don’t see it disqualifying either, when it comes to Barack “just messin’ with ya” Obama….
a comprehensive nation energy policy lowering per capita cost via technological innovation frees billions of dollars????????????????????
a gold standard maybe!
I could see a 2-1 turnout in favour of the Dems, but at almost 4-1 I’d have to go with the crossover theory. Just like the Rethugs voted for Short Ride in CT.
There’s probably not enough gold, silver or other “precious” metal to cover the amount of currency in circulation. And the markets would never agree to a set price for it.
What would you suggest?
The answer is no money. Money’s underwrites hierarchy. Counting it, saving it, making it gives us something to do with our time, but we’d be happier sitting under a tree.
No money seems incredibly idealistic or stupid. You might ask yourself why especially when the tenor of this thread is the length people go to accumulate money and then die anyhow. What is the point?
Obama: McCain Still Fighting the Wrong War
Scarecrow’s up!
got to my internet enabled coffee shoop!
that would serve very niceley as an economic stimulous package along the lines of the new deal, it would pour tons of money into our auto industry as they tool up to sell the new technology, we could definately grant low cost loans to the american auto industries IF they don’t export jobs and if they maintain their union labor force
but it doesn’t take the private sector out of minting our money, we really have to find a way to federalize the fed
returning to the gold standard I don’t think means anything, gold’s real value is phsycological, that’s all…there are some practical uses of gold but not enough to justify the value
I think we simply have to federalize the fed and make all money policies public, we need to know who we are lending money to and how much paper is being printed
do you know the fed has the ability to “lend money” to our enemies?..to terrorists?…and there is nothing we can do about it?
the fed “lending money” means they are printing money and handing it out with the hopes of getting more back then thery printed (the prime rate)
what a bizarre business model, you print the very thing you are payed with and need to get paid more then you print…who came up with this model?
Citizen SouthernDragon:
You are absolutely right that there is too much currency in circulation to set a price against precious metals but that’s ok…this is the final crisis of corporate capitalism and we have the institutional mechanisms either in place or in our history to transition to a post corporate capitalist economy. Confiscatory taxation to redistribute the concentrations accumulated these laste few years, anti-trust actions ta break up the oligarchy and war crimes trials and raceteering prosecutions will clean up the left overs.
Good question. As much as I’ve thought about it, I don’t have a clue. It’s clear the Fed needs to go and its functions put under Treasury. Currency control isn’t my forte but I know the Fed’s manipulation of currency hasn’t benefited any but those at the top of the ladder.
What would you substitute for money? Return to a strictly bartering society?
I don’t think a barter system can work anymore, it’s still money and you can’re really aqcuire wealth through hard work, if you can’t acquire wealth there’s going to be very little innovation
but acquired wealth does not mean inheritance wealth and there should be no people born into a guaranteed elite society, I believe we need to limit inheritance to one, possibly two generations worth of wealth
everyone must be productive in this country and when we inherit wealth we lose that incentive, plus federalizing inherited wealth helps build the infrastructure
their very business model is bizarre, they print money with the hope that we will give more money back,(the prime rate), but how can we possibly give more money back then the fed has printed?
we can’t, the fed must continue to lend money in order to the extra money to pay back the original debt
how the HELL does a system like THAT get to be considered viable?
Marshal McLuhan said, correctly I think, that technology shapes society. Electric technology substitutes abundance (you can make as many digital copies of anything that you want) for scarcity, something used to distinguish haves from have nots.
I suggest nothing less than utopia with electronic, direct democracy rather than representative democracy. Utopia gets by with as few jobs as possible, leaving people to do pretty much as they please. The utopia I prefer is described in Bellamy’s “Looking Backward”, but when you think of how many jobs are devoted to keeping track of who owns what-meters, scales, accountants, lawyers etc. you see we spend our lives chasing foolishness. It’s time we understood why we do it, and it’s time we stopped.
I don’t think inherited wealth is the problem. The system is the problem. In 1965 the financial capitalists in London won the influence game over the industrial capitalists and the de-industrialization of England began. The industrials realized they could make more money in the markets than by producing products. Cheaper products from outsourcing and increased revenue from those products meant higher share value on the markets. The same thing has happened here. Wealth is now accumulated through Wall Street, not Main Street. The breakdown of the capitalist system envisioned by Marx in Capital is beginning.
I think people miss the fact that many of the products we use are based on petroleum. What would a cell phone look like if there were no plastic available? Would it even be possible? The planet has a finite amount of natural resources. Once they’re gone, they’re gone. Recycling will only work so long as there’s no breakdown of the material. Every time something is recycled it’s a little weaker. Electronics today are based on silicon and plastics.
first thing we need to do is insure there is no cheaper product by outsourcing do to labor expeneses and envirnmental expenditures
when that is the case the product must be tariffed
acquired wealth is a problem if it inhibits productivity and if it fertilizes the envirnment of law buying.
this is why the inheritance tax and progressive taxes are very productive
silicone is silicon, and other things, not petro
plastics can be made of silicon instead of petro plastic
True, but taxes are only a small part of the picture. We have to come up with a system that would bring industry back to this country that produces commodities that are affordable. Again, using the infernal cell phone as an example, what would an iPhone cost if made in this country? How many people could afford to own one? Pay the wages necessary for the worker to be able to buy the cell phone, and provide for family, etc, the price necessarily goes up so the capitalist can make a profit.
I don’t think the silicon used in chips, for instance, is durable enough.
the way to do that is stated pretty eloquently (if I say so myself) on my 70;
let me elaborate;
when collective bargaining is not allowed, that product must be tariffed, when slave labor is allowed, tariff, when child labor is allowed, tariff, when more then 40 hours are not over compensated to the laborer, tariff, when they pollute the air, tariff, when they don’t clean their crap, tariff
you create an equal playing field and you get hardly any exporting of jobs to other countries, you wind up only importing product the country can’t produce itself
simple stuff, we’ve done it before with great success
as far as “prices that are affordable”, that of course is a relative term, I just bought some levi straus jeans for 12 bucks, 15 years ago I paid 35, that is rediculous and what I have done by buying those pants is I have supported slave labor
I throw pants out long before I used to because they are just so damn cheap, I bought a hat the other day for my converable for 7 bucks, I bought a stetson not as good for 100
rediculous things going on with this exporting stuff, rediculous
silicone is far more durable and able to handle the elements much better the petroleum based products, I have plastic goggles that last about a season and silicone which last till I lose them
We have only scratched the surface of technology which makes it impossible to judge tomorrow’s possibilities by today’s. For power we need cold fusion, not windmills or solar panels. We need desalinization plants that produce potable water. This will green deserts as well as reduce sea levels. As for the salt we can try resalinating the oceans and perhaps forestall another ice age or do something productive with it-make plastic perhaps. One thing we cannot do is bury it willy nilly. We need to clean up our act. Mostly we need to get our heads straight enough to see that self fulfillment has nothing to do with abusing others.
I find this conversation interesting and would like to continue, but I’m off to the dump and then to split wood for the winter of 2009.
How does one turn sand into fertile soil? Now that would be a moneymaker.
“..anti-trust actions ta break up the oligarchy and war crimes trials and raceteering prosecutions will clean up the left overs.”
Citizen Norske,
Might there be a successful trial lawyer in line to do just that job on behalf of the governed. PS: I like and respect your style… brass testicles. Must have been that “Nam” thing??
Good Morning Attaturk and Firedogs,
perris and Southern Dragon – there are a bazillion non petro based ‘plastics’ out there- compostable/bio degradable
and not all of it is corn by the way, there’s sugarcane, and I’ve seen take-out utensils made from sweet potato –
this is just one page, one line of products that happen to affect my industry
link
Cut and split 7 cords of wood myself! I will not give a dime to the bastards……..
http://www.naoptek.com! Imagine this on a large scale. Using tidal actions push salt water inland, to agricultural areas. Harvested solar radiation is utilized to operate “Radio Frequency Generators” (John Kanzius) to disassociate hydrogen from from salt water. Now Burn hydrogen to operate steam driven electrical turbine generators. The exhaust from hydrogen is desalinated H2O now used to irrigate crops for food and grow industrial grade hemp and other low cost biomass for cellulosic ethanol production.
The electricity created by burning hydrogen goes into the grid. A simple proposition, Using the most abundant elements on earth Sunlight and salt water and tech we have affordable energy once the capital cost are paid for! This is a war on energy!!! This would decimate the supply side economic horse shit we hear every day! A New New Deal for America and the world vs “Corporate monopolistic BULLSHIT” Jefferson ONCE again!!!!!!
Back on topic, thread!
McCain is awful. He is GAWDAWFUL. But the last two lines of this post make it about Clinton voters, not McCain.
It is a pretty sucky attack, especially when no liberal/progressive Clinton preferrer would ever stomach voting for McCain. Those that don’t like Obama can also note vote at all, sit it out and just vote downticket, vote Green, or write in Hillary as a DNC protest. I’m sure there are other options for us that don’t involve spitefully voting for someone worse than Obama.
On a personal level, my dislike of Obama will NOT make me vote for McCain. And my disike of Obama has nothing to do with Clinton and everything to do with Obama himself – his history, his voting record, his hubris, his corporate-love, his pandering, his basic dishonesty, his not being a liberal, his misogyny, his religiosity. If my state is in play in November I will probably hold my nose and vote for him. If my state is safely D I will likely write in my preferred candidate.
This is the topic “energy independence” and to that end John McCain, living in the water starved state of Arizona, bathed in the sun’s energy still protects the interest of corporate oil, to the detriment of his state and the nation. Obama made the connection between “liberty” energy costs and corporate interests hellbent on maintaining the current “East India Energy Corporations,” energy delivery system!! We have become that which we severed our ties from 200 plus years ago! Drunks in denial and the Iraq Oil Plot!
and deaf ears……
dem same people gave us Bush twice, if you count the first one as made it close enough to let the robes select him.
And let’s not forget the gay folks. Read more, please. http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008…..-gays.html
the polls aren’t anything but gaming the question and bigotry
but I have to admit, that bigotry is a huge factor, I see even democrats here in new york are having trouble supporting obama and they can’t even give an inteligent reason why
they can’t give a reason because they either won’t say they are bigots or just don’t realize it.
I personally wish this fisa thing game up early in the campaign, obama would have never ever been able to support the bill…though it seems to me in the beginning he did indeed gaurantee he would not support telecom immunity, then he did
I began to stop defending him on the tubes and in person, I cannot believe we are feilding such a corporatist but here we are today
must earn, more later