Perhaps some folks can’t remember what happened to Russia when it tried to deal with Afghanistan. If there’s someone out there over 100+, he/she might recall Britain’s similar fate.

If we should have learned ANYTHING from the Iraq fiasco, it should be that we can’t just go busting into a country without a thought to understanding its history, culture, etc.

Juan Cole has provided this lifeline. I hope Obama takes it.

If Obama’s position was that war in the middle east is the wrong policy, he would say the war in Iraq is wrong, but he didn’t, he said it is the “wrong” war, implying that there is a “right” war, which he has said before.

So either way, mccain or Obama, it will be endless war in the area. The two only disagree on where the most troops should be.

I’m not seeing any disagreement that the US should have, had a right to, had no choice but it . . . go after those who planned 9/11.

of course not. but that doesn’t mean bombing from 30,000 feet. and it doesn’t mean using depleted uranium and it doesn’t mean installing a puppet gov with warloads that make the taliban look good and on and on.

why is it that progressives can see that the pony war was never on offer wrt iraq but can’t see it wrt afghanistan.

we have to look at not the war (or occupation) that some of us might wish for – but the one we are likely to get.

There is an acknowledgement that the prior Taliban regime habored al Qaeda. So should we have overthrown that regime,

uh, what happened to our commitment to diplomacy and negotiation? the taliban offered to turn OBL to a third party (for a fair trial) if we would provide evidence to support his extradition.

now, they may never have followed through on that – but we will never know because we refused to negotiate.

Most of the critiques are about how hard this is — I agree — and how it carries great risks of making things worse — I agree. But what’s a plausible alternative?

i propose that we all read robert pape’s research (Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism). the guy’s politics are so far to the right of me i can’t even see them over the horizon. but i’m still rather attached to the idea of being members of the reality based community – and if we want to develop a reasonable strategy for AQ and OBL, it would be a good idea imo to be aware of the data that is available (regardless if you buy pape’s conclusions or not).

what i see happening is progressives buying into a different set of narratives about terrorism and national security – but just because they are different from the insane ones advocated for by the neocons doesn’t make ours reality based. and listening to obama yesterday, i don’t think much of his. let’s start afresh.

don’t know if i’m going to be able to go to denver – there are several non trivial impediments – but i’m hoping and i’m working on it.

well, if you have ever in the NE – please let me know!

How’s that for competition ruling in the market place?