Photo courtesy FailBlog.
It would be a good thing, really, to have a rational national debate about immigration. But at every turn, the nativist right makes clear that it's far more intent on promoting bellicose bigotry fueled by ignorance and hypocrisy. The more ignorant and stupid, it seems, the better.
Down in LA this weekend the National Council of La Raza held its annual conference, and Barack Obama spoke there. Now, the nativist contingent, as well as its willfully misinformed movement-conservative defenders, love to attack NCLR as "racist" -- because they ignorantly translate "La Raza" as "the race." We've dispensed with this senescent little turd previously, but to quickly recap: "La Raza," as the Wikipedia entry accurately explains, is correctly translated not as "the race" but "the people," since it refers generically to "the people of Latin America" (or more narrowly, "of Mexico"). It's generically a multiracial term, not a racist one.
And so, sure enough, the nativist protesters showed up outside the gathering and broadly waved their ignorance about. As kyledeb at Citizen Orange reports, the signs read as follows:
"Support Americans Not La Raza",
"La Raza Means 'The Race'",
"La Raza Stop the Hate Against Americans",
"La Raza, Neo-Nazi, KKK, Racist Groups",
"Obama: 50% White, 43.75% Arabic, 6.25% Black, 100% Brown RACIST"
But that's not all they were trotting out to the scene:
Just as I was about to turn away from filming a man holding a sign of a boy urinating on the phrase "La Raza", I heard him begin to chant, "Fuck You Brown Boy. Fuck You Brown Boy. Fuck You Brown Boy." The San Diego Minuteman supporter was walking up a ramp to the convention center and was speaking to another full-grown man that looked to be of latino descent to me.
In all fairness, I have no idea what the latino man was saying to the San Diego Minutemenn supporter. It could have been just as hateful. I followed them until they parted ways and just as I was about to stop filming again, a group of people walked through chanting, "Viva La Raza. Viva La Raza." The Minuteman supporter then went at it again, "Fuck La Raza. Fuck La Raza. Fuck La Raza."
It's easy to dismiss all this as just so many heated words. But then you see incidents like the massive raids in Iowa, where children are separated from their parents and huimans treated like cattle, and realize that it's much more than that. The toxic effect of this kind of ignorance produces human travesties -- like the one in Tennessee in which a very pregnant Latino woman was taken to jail, then transferred to the city hospital when her water broke, where she was shackled to her bed, and forced to deliver her child under those circumstances.
Political Salsa has all the details:
-- A woman, three days before delivery of her fourth AMERICAN child, was wrongly arrested and incarcerated.
-- Her water broke while she was in jail; she was transported to Metro General Hospital.
-- When the nurse asked her to undress to get into hospital clothes, the sheriff's guard was asked to leave for the moment. He -- yes, he -- refused. So she had to undress in front of him. ...
-- Then, while in labor, she was handcuffed by her wrist and ankle to the bed. I've seen women in labor, and they constantly are shifting positions to try and get some sense of relief, if that is even possible. Now consider the pain if handcuffs prevented your movement.
-- Thankfully, the handcuffs were taken off two hours before she delivered. But then she was restrained again in bed a day later. And every trip to the bathroom required leg shackles. When the nurse strongly objected, the sherrif's department stayed absolute. The nurse said the new mother would not be able to clean herself properly with shackles. The sheriff's guard said it didn't matter; he was doing his job.
... -- It also didn't matter if the baby received the critical mother's milk in its first days of life. The child was removed from its mother, and Ms. DeLaPaz was returned to jail.
-- The final injury inflicted upon this CIVIL/MISDEMEANOR offender was the denial of her use of a breast pump to express her milk for the baby and her own comfort. The nurse again strongly objected, but the sheriff's department again played law enforcer, physician and God.
The child later was diagnosed with jaundice -- a result of not getting its mother's breast milk.
Sure, it's just one mother, one kid. But when ignorance rules our discourse and drives our public policy -- including our law enforcement -- you know that whatever comes out is not going to be good. Scenes like these, incidents like these, are repeated endlessly, usually never reported. And a hundred other little human travesties like them follow as well. It happens a drop at a time, but the toll adds up.
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Here’s a link to NYT editorial on medicare..
Turns out that the goopers were so convinced that private insurers could do a more cost effective job of medicare coverage that they gave the private insurers SUBSIDIES for providing said coverage.. “HUH” you say- yep- that’s right!
Can these bozos ever get a sign right? Morans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07.....n1.html?hp
The link
morans
Yep, these guys are probably brothers.
LOL. We like this pic tooooo much.
Digg this Post by David!!
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
I like the sign at the top that says “respect are (our) country - speak English”. You gotta love HIS English.
although if you pronounce ‘moran’ phonetically in Spanish it comes out something like ‘moron’ in English. the irony.
The greatest excuse for bein’ an asshole they’ve got.
Yeah, he goes right alongside this sturdy defender of the language.
But this bozo can spell “boycott.” Go figure. Both signs look like the work of one person.
that’s just offal.
Um, ’scuze me… That’s “defenderer”!
;~P
Gotta go feed my little brown squirrels. Hope I don’t run into any of these racists out in my yard. brb
The immigration issue is so important that the right has put it’s best minds to work on the problem.
ACLU and Endgame:
http://www.aclum.org/issues/ice_doc_gallery.php
If you were a minimally educated construction worker who saw your hourly rate go from $18.00/hour to $12.00/hour or to minimum wage…….well, just sayin’.
David — Lou Dobbs on CNN just “corrected” Obama, who reportedly had said that “la raza” means “the people.” Dobb’s said “la gente” means “the people,” while “la raza” means “the race.”
Well, if Lou Dobbs says it, it must be true.
It would be impossible to determine whether what “la raza” says is true or just without knowing EXACTLY what it’s name means in spanish.
Asserting his power over people. Wow, I’m so proud. NOT!
At the risk of having wrath rain down on my head, what exactly are you all defending? Is it okay with you that possibly 20,000,000 (20 million — count ‘em) persons with no legal right to be in our country are, in fact, in our country? Is that okay with you? I agree that we should be kind while disabusing folks of the notion that they have a “right” to settle illegally (i.e., squat) in America without papers. But, we need, I think, to deal with this invasion.
And, by the way, I don’t see anyone speaking out against legal immigrants. In fact, the loony regulations nowadays make legal immigration harder. (No I don’t know how to do the linky thing, but I do hear that we’re keeping out potential graduate students, for example.)
For those who have been around this blog a really long time, they know I am a big supporter of English as the national language and wrote several posts on it.
It is not all right for there to be (possibly) as many as 20 million people in the US with no legal right to be here.
But the concentration is always upon the “brown” people, many of whom are here legally.
Which means there’s little ever mentioned about all the undocumented folks who are here from Ireland and Poland and Germany and all the other European countries.
And why might those folks who are here without proper documentation given such a pass?
What do you recommend?
There are also illegal Russians in this country. I think they are ‘white’ — they shouldn’t be here either.
everybody knows what needs to be done
1. repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA
2. prosecute the illegal employers, not the desperate poor workers who come for the bait.
The dems had a sensible plan, which Insane johnny was even in agreement with before he did his flip flop. Building walls thinking it will keeps folks out or thinking you can deport 20 million people is really nuts.
I recommend that businesses check for legal ID. Now, I once hired a young woman who turned out to be illegal. I went through every governmental site I could find to figure out whether we could get papers for her. The golvernment (no surprise!) just sucks. they said I had to hire her without making her prove documentation and they would let me know next tax season whether or not I could continue to employ her. This was in January, so we had over a year to go. I let her go. she went back to work for McDonalds, which apparently has fewer qualms about keeping the illegals employed.
But I think the point of this post was more about the brutism this country is sinking into.
Thank you, LindaR. It IS about the employers. I’m convinced that it the Chamber of Commerce who keeps this mess going.
Hey Dearie,
Are you a Native American? Who exactly “belongs” in this country? Probably not you!
Under the current administration, America has indeed sunk into brutalism. Frustration. Inability to figure out what to do. What a goddamned mess. kick the bastards out and start fresh.
And here is one of those posts. English forever!
You’re right on that. but my great-grandparents did come legally. they also foreswore any allegiance to former countries and bought into the American way with full enthusiasm. And I’d be happy to see legal immigrants continue to do so. When, BTW, did dual citizenship become the idea? And, Rowdy, we’d all still be in the heart of Africa if folks didn’t move on down the trail.
I also think that ‘native americans’ immigrated from China.
We have an administration that tortures people, & jails them without due process. They break any law that gets in the way of their power grab. They’ve killed more than one million people in Iraq. I don’t think they are worried about their lack of humanity or brutality.
This is why the Lou-Dobbs-is-a-pig argument bores me so much.
As I said. We all know that the only answer is to come down hard on the illegal employers. Until that is done, no one can claim to be serious about the issue.
“illegal” workers are desperate people is horrible circumstances. they are not the problem; they are the symptom of the problem.
The problem is employers who see slavery as a legitimate path to profitability — and the polititians who don’t mind.
Viva Hugh! One of several classics.
Hunger knows no borders, no boundries. If the corporations who make enormous profits by exploiting these folks, the Iowa raid for instance, hadn’t used that same profit motive to destroy what jobs they had in Mexico and Central America they wouldn’t have come here. If you’re of European descent your ancestors committed genocide to steal the land of those who lived here first. Now there’s something to be proud of, right? Further, could you give us an example of just how these “illegals” have affected you or your family?
I know. I feel like we’ve collectively suffered a psychotic break with all this violence and sadism committed in our name.
And where do you get off calling them “bastards?”
I think you got confused on who the “them” was. . . .
And that is why there will never be an answer to the situation. It’s been talked about for as long as I can remember - but usually really gets going about every 4 years when the rightwing can strut it stuff. It’s amazing how the politicians get away with saying biased things but they never fix the problem. I wonder why……..could be money.
I think Dearie is referring to the current administration in DeeCee with that term…
She’s talking about the government. Congress and El Presidente.
Then the term is too polite.
Unclear, once again. The bastards I’d like to kick out are the governmental overlords who won’t work out a reasonable immigration process so that we can bring people in fairly and as needed.
ok
FYI, my greats all came in the late 1800’s — fleeing poverty in Europe…..but they came legally. They learned the language, went to school, committed no crimes. American dream, as it were. Back off.
Some time ago, Arizona passed a referendum declaring that government publications must be only in English. Since then I have awaited the change-over in street signs and maps, in town and city names…but strangely enough, this has not happened. We still have a town called Casa Grande, instead of Big House. We still have all those Spanish street names, and the residents of Rancho Sin Vaca have not changed their enclave to No-Cattle Farm. San Manuel isn’t being called Saint Mike’s.
I am perplexed at this scoff-law attitude. I suspect that, were the English-only crowd to succeed elsewhere, we would see similar law-breaking everywhere.
Meanwhile, I think that woman who was chained up to give birth should sue, sue, sue.
Why, you act like this place is some foul-mouthed fem blog or something…
Did we change?
I forgot the close snark tag.
So ICE removed its little Endgame document just like PNAC removed their Strategic Defense document once it hit the oxygen of reality, huh?
Nazi is to Jew
US racist is to brown noncitizen
I do think that there is something to promoting English as the common language (tho some on site this fine day may think we should be speaking hundreds of native languages /s) and most immigrants used to do that. There are in my area immigrants (legal and illegal) who live here for 35 years and more and still don’t bother to learn English. I think that is odd. But when areas become heavily — oh let’s be straight here — hispanic, then there is no reason for folks to learn English. I think this is divisive.
Are you referring to PNAC’s “Rebuilding America’s Defenses?”
Older people have a difficult time learning new languages sometimes. Cultures tend to live in the same neighborhoods. If someone is here legally, I don’t see why they should have to be forced to speak English. It certainly might help in finding work, but why make them if they don’t need to…
Heh, half my family was driven out for being ‘Loyalists’ after the Revolution and the War of 1812… Who subsequently forced the Acadians to depart Nova Scotia for the bayous of Lousy-anna…! What a wicked web we can weave…!
BTW did folks see that the publisher of the LA Times David Hiller resigned after yet more budget and staff cuts. Hiller was definitely not one of the good guys but it says a lot that even someone like him can’t handle what’s coming down the pike in the dead tree media.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07.....ref=slogin
I’m certainly open to ideas on how to accomplish that. Do the schools in those areas not teach in English? By the same token I’d like to see more Americans speak more than one language.
We’re talking illegals here.
You’re right in one regard — an “enforcement first” approach fails unless there is simultaneous prosecution of the employers’ lawbreaking. It simply won’t work.
Moreover, it fails to address the underlying economic issue — namely, the demand for workers to fill a labor pool. That’s why it also makes sense to make citizenship a rational process that can be simple and clean rather than the grueling obstacle course it currently is, but maintain controls over your levels of immigration. If you make these workers legal, employers can’t use them as under-the-counter economic levers.
But even if we do all of the above, we’ve only handled the “pull” end of the immigration tide. We haven’t even touched the “push” aspect of the problem — embodied by the massive unemployment of Mexican agricultural workers (in the millions) caused by NAFTA.
True comprehensive immigration reform handles that aspect of the problem as well.
Yes. Don’t worry, I know it still exists on the web, but PNAC’s site is not up anymore, or something…I thought it was interesting that it was published on the web, then depublished. Fortunately ACLU and others are sharp enough to capture these moments in fascism.
Every school has to teach english. Not sure about adults but NCLB requires testing in English for school aged children.
English has been the “common language” in the US all along.
Except for areas in Texas and the Southwest where Spanish was the original common language.
Or Hawaii, where the “common language” is Pidgin.
People do learn the language. The children of immigrants tend to be bi-lingual and speak English and whatever language their parents speak. Just as they pretty much have all along.
So…you are saying that illegals should be forced to learn English?
I’m all for language study! The irony is that my brother and I studied Spanish in high school. We had better vocabularies in Spanish than many employees who spoke the basest ‘Spanglish.’ What people often forget is that many of the illegals come with little, or even NO, education. And there is not the admiration of education that one finds in most Asian immigrant populations. You asked how the illegals have impacted my family —- schools in my town are so ‘limited’ that I couldn’t have sent my own children to them. Private schools are expensive, but if you want your children to be challenged, private school becomes a necessity.
ABC News just had a poll up that said 72% of Americans thought McCain would be a good Commander in Chief while less than half thought Obama would. Also they were split on Obama’s and McCain’s plans for Iraq.
I should note that ABC is filled with Republican shills and I am not a supporter of Obama.
But from where I sit, in Tucson, I’m looking at a region that was Hispanic for a lot longer than it’s been part of the United States. Tucson’s city charter is dated 1776. It’s from the King of Spain. So it chaps me when the nativists go on and on about how immigrants should learn the local language. Did they learn Spanish? No. Anglos are the immigrant culture here.
And lets not even talk about the Tohono O’odham, who actually control a long stretch of the US/Mexico border, and who are none too thrilled about a bunch of Anglos trying to build a fence on their sovereign territory.
stoopid heds.
I downloaded a copy when it first went up years ago. The same with any of their other writings they put up. The site is now non-existent. When it first went down there was a notice that their account was overdue. I guess Murdoch didn’t want to add any more to the million he looses each year with The Weekly Neocon, er, Standard.
Right. Correct. Well stated. Everyone, go back and read what David just said.
No. I’m not into FORCED teaching. I’m also not into doing everything in both English and Spanish to accommdate people who are not here legally!
Really? How do you know? Have you checked the papers of these hispanic people in heavily hispanic areas? Or are you talking about grandmas who still use their native tongue, as do their loving citizen grandchildren when speaking with them?
One of my ggggwhatevers was a stowaway from the Isle of Man who then jumped the Proclamation Line after the war. I think he was on the run and kept running! Others came in the late 1880’s in the height of the America Firster’s time. Awesome displays of enlightenment /s at the World’s Fair, doncha know!
I think people should be forced to learn English. I suggest electroshock and thumbscrews. Whips should, of course, be optional. I am a liberal after all.
Hmmm. Interesting. I won’t be surprised to see McCain win and Congress go more heavily Dem. Obama’s moves to the right erased a lot of reasons people supported him….big mistake. The corporate media will get McCain elected unless something big happens.
I’m still battling with my kids about speaking and writing proper English…
I won’t acknowledge them if they use pidgin… So far, it’s worked! ;-)
Same where I am originally from, in NM. 400 years old.
Yeah their account IS overdue, that’s for sure. It still says that btw…good on ya for keeping it on file. It gave me the chills when I saw it for the first time.
People who think their own ancestors came here legally would be startled if they did some actual research. I know I was.
Okay, no need to yell…geesh…It was just a question.
Pidgin to Da Max Bra!
The reality, however, is that the longitudinal studies show real socio-economic progress by Latinos. Progress is slower in some areas, such as the education level of adult immigrants, and faster in others, such as income and homeownership rates. But there is no doubt that both assimilation and upward mobility are occurring over time.
With respect to linguistic assimilation, which is one of the more important measures because it amounts to a job skill that can increase earnings, the historical pattern is as follows: The first generation learns enough English to get by but prefers the mother tongue. The children of immigrants born here grow up in homes where they understand the mother tongue to some extent and may speak it, but they prefer English. When those children become adults, they establish homes where English is the dominant language.
There’s every indication that Latinos are following this pattern. According to 2005 Census data, just one-third of Latino immigrants in the country for less than a decade speak English well. But that proportion climbs to 75% for those here 30 years or more. There may be more bilingualism today among their children, but there’s no evidence that Spanish is the dominant language in the second generation. The 2000 Census found that 91% of the children of immigrants, and 97% of the grandchildren, spoke English well.
I’m all for grannies! So you’re saying it’s peachy with you that we have 20 million illegal invaders who will have, what? 40 million+ additional children who WILL be legal? I have no problem with immigration. I do have a problem with an invasion of 20 million people who don’t speak the language. Nice, of course, that their children will. You know?
Hey, we still speak Spanish here in California.
One thing that really bugs me about the discussion of immigrants or new to the country ethnic groups is that my koolaid drinkin wingnut is all about supporting Cubans who vote Republican. They are A OK! Other groups and it’s adios MF.
Where does the 20 million figure originate?
Have you read that 90 page blueprint for a militaristic empire? Everything the Barnacle administration has done is right there. Too bad the congressgreedheads didn’t read it.
OK, Dearie, we hear your frustration…but it isn’t a black/white thingy. It’s the demand for cheap labor etc as Hugh and Dave and all outline.
I hear your frustration because I hear from many teachers here in California who cannot possibly keep up with the 20 plus languages that are spoken at home here in the Golden State. It’s a real burden. And we do need a common language.
heh. maybe they did.
gtg pups. catch ya next time SD.
The problem is the assumption made by so many that all those undocumented immigrants are a monolith speaking Spanish when they include a large quantity of folks who speak Polish and Russian and Lithuanian and English and French and all the other languages in the world.
Hell, even Michelle Malkin is an “anchor baby” so it’s not as if it’s a previously unused concept.
So, I’m getting that the crowd here today is okay with folks just coming into America and settling down? Anyone from Idaho? I hear there is quite some influx going on. Okay with you? And I am NOT talking about folks who migrate legally. the woman chained to the bed (which is reprehensible and disgusting!) was illegal. She was, however, providing us with a 4th legal child born in america.
The assimilation pattern for hispanic immigrants is not that different from other immigrant populations. They tend in the first generation to prefer their native language and to live in enclaves- as did the Irish and the Italians and the Germans before them.
The second generation, of course, are legal citizens and they tend to prefer english to spanish. Eventually there is a tendancy to move out of the enclaves (ghettos) and move into the cultural mainstream.
First, how do you know that the Spanish-speakers aren’t here legally? I know of a lot of people who are here legally, who were born here, whose parents and grandparents and great great grandparents were born here, and who speak Spanish by preference.
Second, how does it hurt you to have documents in Spanish? How does it hurt you to have someone speaking another language in your (or your kid’s) school? I’ve never understood why it’s even a problem.
It never bothered anyone that my great-grandfather read me fairy tales in German. Why does it bother you that some abuelo is reading to his great grandchild in Spanish?
I mostly see people exploring whether the “facts” you have posted are true or not..Isn’t that a good place to start a discussion?
It’s not an invasion. It’s an importation of cheap labor. They did not come here behind the barrel of a gun; they came here for the jobs on offer by American companies.
Never bet against demographics. The Rio Grande is a political border but not a demographic one. Workers will come as long as there are jobs here and not there. What is needed is long term investment in Mexico and less hypocrisy here: railing against “illegals” but wanting and benefiting from their cheap labor.
Population growth is a huge minus in the quality of life equation.
Our immigration growth will come back to haunt us in the future … in a big way
My wife was born in germany as were her sons. She prefers to speak german to them- to keep the language alive for them- they much prefer to speak english…..although their german is fairly good as they lived there for the first fourteen years of their lives. The third generation will likely not speak any german at all.
I really don’t think that is the point. Illegal immigrants bring down wages. illegal immigrants use resources that are often scarce. Illegal immigrants in my area crowd into housing and bring down property values. I have not said one word against legal immigration and just rather surprised that you all seem to think there is nothing wrong with illegal settlling. Just surprises me.
Learning the language of a neighboring country is just common sense. Mexicans need to learn English if they want to come here, and we would do well to learn Mexican (which, incidently, is different than, though similar to Spanish). We also should be highly interested in our kids learning other foreign languages. The reasons are too numerous to type out here, but common sense can guide you along there. The idea that we should speak and teach English and only English is a form of ignorance promotion. That’s always been true but is now more than ever, due to globalization.
Malkins’ parents were illegal? Did I mistake this whole thread? I know the woman chained to the bed was not chained because she was hispanic — or was she Irish? What am I missing here?
And by the way, my English and German immigrant ancestors were not “legal”…though I guess when the English came, they were legal since they came to occupy this British colony. The Germans had no visas, they just came for the work or to escape conscription. That was before there were any restrictions on immigration to this country, of course. The first generation were never naturalized, but of course their children were US citizens. And so on down to me.
I bet a lot of nativists would be alarmed if they took a look back at the status of their own immigrant ancestors.