Obama’s fundraising is trending downwards. Every fundraising campaign needs a bogeyman, and the media helpfully resurrected the anti-Hillary Clinton crusade that the right brewed in the 90s during the primary. Now that we’re in the battle for the general, the media just doesn’t hate John McCain like that, and the public compliantly picks up that attitude. So most of that was pretty predictable.
But in the end, it’s the activists who give. If NARAL’s endorsement of Obama shortly before the primary was over pissed off a lot their big donors, his comments about rejecting the mental health of the mother as an exception to the ban on late term abortions must have pleased few of them. It’s been one of the major right wing assaults on choice for ages, and it certainly gave anti-choice proponents hope of a beachhead in an Obama administration.
Maybe somebody can explain to me why the two biggest choice organizations out there — Planned Parenthood and NARAL — saw their role in all this as scurrying to make this okay:
The reaction to Obama’s statement revealed a divide in the abortion rights community, one that closely tracks the allegiances formed during the Democratic Party’s protracted primary election fight. While NOW and the Feminist Majority voiced concern over Obama’s abortion remarks, two of the largest organizations dedicated to reproductive rights took a different tack and backed up Obama.
NARAL Pro-Choice America, which endorsed Obama in early May, issued a statement of support after Relevant magazine published the interview last week, saying he was a strong supporter of Roe v. Wade and his views were consistent with the landmark ruling establishing the right to an abortion. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund, which stayed neutral in the primary, announced its formal support of Obama on Tuesday.
I understand they want to see Obama elected, all true choice advocates do.
No matter what his position, he’ll be worlds better than John McCain, and hopefully create an executive environment that choice advocates can work with.
But the big choice groups seem to believe their job is to scurry around on the floor for crumbs and tell their membership that anything that Democratic leaders do is okay. NARAL and Planned Parenthood told their members to thank Joe Lieberman for his vote against Alito, as if his role on the Gang of 14 hadn’t put him there in the first place. NARAL offered cover to House Dems and tell them it was okay to vote for the fetal anesthesia bill, another right wing missile into choice.
What are these people doing? What do they see their role as? They’re supposed to be there guarding choice, not making it comfortable for Democrats to sell it out.
I don’t really see how this horrible crisis of leadership at the top of the pro-choice pyramid helps Obama or anybody else. It simply creates a crisis of confidence when there isn’t even a meaningful dialog going on about reproductive rights and the best way to advocate for them.
Related posts:
- Early Morning Swim: Rachel Interviews NWHF President Who Fears More Anti-Choice Violence
- And the Catholic Bishops Endorse! A Special Thank-You To Planned Parenthood and NARAL
- Health Care: White House Discourages Making Waves on Reproductive Health and Choice
- Stupak Threatens to Block Health Care over Abortion; Planned Parenthood, NARAL Take a Nap
- I Wonder What Bart Stupak’s Donors Think About Financing Anti-Abortion Activists?
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jus cogens!
Obama on July 3:
Obama!
I think its Obama trying to spread blame for any drop off in fundraising. I think he will go Sister Souljah on Hilary supporters who are still mad about the election. I think Obama will also blame bloggers mad at FISA but by spreading the blame to dilute our reasons for not giving him money anymore in the press.
Obama makes us out to be a broad front of Democrats who are not liking him much right now.
Tweety should have a field day except he is under orders to present the Left as weak.
Hey Jane!
Best to you and the poodles ;->
I wonder what Obama’s position on Jus Cogens is after his switch on FISA I want everything in writing from him now.
so… yer gonna put that thing on every dang thread all day, snookums?
I happen to agree with Obama’s recent statements about abortion. My donations stopped (and I was ready to just max out) because of FISA, expanding faith-based initiatives and his reaction to the Supreme court’s decision re: not executing child rapists. Too many moves to the right in too short a time seemed like pandering at worst or being afraid at best.
Dems don’t win when they move right. They will never please the right-center and they’ll just piss off their base. Don’t they ever learn? Obama could have showed some balls on FISA but he seemed to be listening to the political hacks and not trusting his instincts. We’ve all been beaten down by nearly 8 years of Bush crap–we want our guy to stand with us. Obama–how about some leadership on off-shore drilling? Until then, my checkbook is closed.
That’s a new version with halo :D
What a week ! What a mess ! McC almost loses his mind over the birth control/V**gra question and Obama puts his foot squarely in the middle of choice. What in the world are they doing?
Maybe these pro-choicers are still recovering (as I am) from discovering that we’ve been marked down (per attaturk’s post this a.m.)
the mind reels.
well said.
I suspect Obama’s fund-raising will show a dip anyway, after the FISA vote, won’t it?
No. He’s not perfect. Surprise.
Mccaint’s a nightmare. Teh true deal.
Your sober and thoughtful assessment of the situation is much appreciated, ma’lady. ;->
yer mom must be so proud *g*
Wonder how many more senior moments McSame will have to have before the media start talking about senility.
Oh, sorry, just had a senior moment myself! ;)
fumbling around.
most humans tend to do that on a regular basis, especially when tired and stressed.
” Planned Parenthood and NARAL — saw their role in all this as scurrying to make this okay:”
NARAL Pro-Choice America, which endorsed Obama in early May, issued a statement of support after Relevant magazine published the interview last week, saying he was a strong supporter of Roe v. Wade and his views were consistent with the landmark ruling establishing the right to an abortion. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund, which stayed neutral in the primary, announced its formal support of Obama on Tuesday.
My Bold
Does Roe vs Wade support the mental health reason to have an abortion that Obama is trying to get rid of?
Do Planned Parenthood and NARAL still support Abortion rights if the woman has a mental health reason?
Also is Obama saying that he wants crazy possibly suicidal woman to have kids that they don’t want? Does he support women who have been through the mental health system being forced to have kids they don’t want when they themselves are barely holding on to their sanity?
Just what are the implications if Obama gets his way on this?
His instincts probably lie closer to his mentor Lieberman’s than we would all like to admit. He’s turning into a disasterous candidate.
To the policy wonks in the Obama campaign, pissing off the liberals was a good thing — it improved Obama’s centrist credentials; it was a freebie. The phrase “too clever by half” comes to mind.
I’ll contribute to Obama when he publicly purges those assholes from his campaign and admits that double-crossing us on FISA was a horrible mistake.
what the hey are you apologizing for?!
i honestly fear he truly is senile or early alz. No foolin’!
I’m on pretty much the same page. I give money to people organizations that lead. Right now, that’s the ACLU. It is not Team Obama. One of the big reasons he won the nomination to begin with was that his chief opponent–Hillary–voted for the war in 2002 instead of doing her job and saying, “Wait a minute. Is this really a good idea?” Obama should have looked at his win not just as an affirmation of his own campaign but also as a desire by the voters to punish Hillary for voting for a short-term political gain without considering the long-term damage it would case.
Hillary seems to have learned a little from her loss–she had the good sense to vote against the FISA bill. McCain, who is going to lose a good chunk of his libertarian supporters to Bob Barr, had the sense to skip the vote entirely, so it won’t be used against him. Only Obama voted for it. That may win him votes, but it’s not going to win him any more of my money.
right back at ya!
. . .we are so getting a time out
heh
He was a POW so his senior moments don’t count.
The real reason for his drop off in donations is FISA he betrayed many of his supporters and it showed in the volume of mail I was getting from them… it got so bad that I decided to quit that listserver… Many of them were recounting how they had called the campaign and demanding their donations back and had been telling them no way would they ever contribute to his campaign when he voted for FISA and betrayed the cConstition and shredded the fourth Amendment… just my 2 cents worth!
right on!
Believe!
IMO Obama’s funding is going to dip because
a. his FISA vote (as you noted)
b. people believe that McInsane is going to go down in flames, so Obama doesn’t need the help
and/or
c. people are tapped out (I know, that’s only a mental recession but still no check in the mail)
ya mean like this ?
Capitulation We Can Believe In !
link
Absolutely my position. My credit card has slammed shut until does something worth supporting. And, I think he’d be smart to put Hillary on the ticket.
No, my senior moment was thinking the media would pick it up…
The phrase “too clever by half” comes to mind.
By half very well might describe Obama’s fundraising for July:)
I agree with you. Didn’t we all see his fundraising would drop off when he did the double cross?
Obama may be in trouble. If his fundraising advantage evaporates- and his positions on the issues become totally defensive- why’s anyone gonna vote for him? Four months of long speeches gets old- no matter how well they are delivered- especially when you discover that they are tofu–smells a bit like there’s meat in there- but there ain’t.
Good effin God! We are already under One Party Rule!
I don’t think I can take any more BS from this Congress! pulling hair and tearing my garments.
My friends have stopped their donations for the simple reason of his vote for the FISA Bill and his attitude surrounding that issue. They may or may not come back around, only time will tell. No one I know could possibly believe a Dem. Pres. would vote against free choice. His FISA vote will not reinforce that faith much tho.
Two thirds of the oil on the continental shelf is already available to oil companies who hold leases on it-but they ain’t drilling. Why don’t dems point this out?
Stupid- that’s why!
I am suffering a crisis in confidence in Mr. Obama. My wallet is closed to all those who refuse to protect and defend the constitution.
Thanks for reporting in. I wrote my finger in the wind comment before reading yours…
I agree with c). Why posit sour grapes when simple pocketbook exhaustion will do? The Dem primary was really expensive. Plus, the economy is in the tank.
He has been dissing his core supporters like that on several issues, on FISA it was:
WTF? I have a feeling he missing all those 25, 50 and $100 donations. He is soooo casual about kicking people in the (wherever, you choose). The person who would be all things to everybody ends up being nothing to anybody.
yep. agreed, agreed & agreed heh/ouch.
in fact, all 3 would apply to us in this household.
we’d been holding back, but FISA took the luster off, bigtime.
vote, yes, if he becomes the candidate.
$$, absolutely not.
we and our “kids” have to stay solvent, if possible, during the aftermath of junior’s middle school leadership experiments, and it may not be easy.
Yes thats the ticket! Offshore drilling will win us sooo many votes in Florida and California! I’m sure that during a real estate market crisis all those people with beach front homes in two to the biggest electoral vote states will gladly trade a few cents off the price of gas in ten years after the oil wells are drilled for tens of thousands off the price of their homes.
The GOP and the Center Dems seem to both have some trouble with counting electoral votes and economics.
Are people really surprised about this? He’s been a centrist from the get-go and everyone knew, or damn sure should have known, that he was going to veer hard right as soon as he won the nomination.
Oh well, we can always blame it on Hillary and her advisors.
Sheesh.
Trashing Obama may lead to President McCain. That’s something the nation will not survive.
Obama is more interested in heading off potential gooper attacks than he is in building an enthusiastic base of support…
This is like going into a stall in a basketball game after the first quarter. It almost ALWAYS turns out badly….
We may not survive Bush.
Trashing Obama right now may be the only way to save him from himself later.
Either that, or it will ensure President McCain.
McGovern had an enthusiastic base. Actually being elected is more important than base enthusiasm.
Are the stadiums still going to fill up for Obama come fall? I have my doubts.
When the money dries up to a trickle, Obama may have some think time.
Who the fuck is he to tell us it’s OK? Is he saying that he is willing to forgive us for his double-cross of us? What a narcissistic prick!
OT – Can another Republican be a hypocrite?
VIA Wonkette: Bad Boy
However, McGovern did not have 60%-70% of the electorate agreeing with his base on many issues. Obama does if he doesn’t blow it.
Reagan had a enthusiastic base and did get elected. An enthusiastic base is generally helpful and often necessary.
Write to super delegates asking them to switch to Hillary. That might get Obama’s attention!
Center does not mean getting rid of the right to privacy thats a Hard Right position that Hitler, Nixon and Pat Buchanan would support.
Nope we had no reason to expect this from Obama after all as a lawyer he should know better.
And thats what makes this betrayal so hard for us.
Are you trying to excuse Obama’s actions?
gotcha. i WISH i could [*g*]! Actually, I’m scared witless.
2000 proved ANYTHING can happen, truly.
so has the inaction in congress during the boosh reign.
so has the terrifying absence of any hint of morality, compassion or responsibility exhibited by the whole executive branch of misgovernment.
i see no moral compass operating whatsoever in D.C. these days, with the shining exceptions of a very few wonderful congresscritters, and Helen Thomas.
I think you have it out of context! I read it as him saying if it was a dealbraker of you supporting for him, so be it. Here is the entire statement.
Great Point if things get that bad then the Left will become to big even for the MSM to ignore. Right now I fear Obama and the MSM are looking for ways to downplay any loss of funding story, but they will not be able to ignore that.
well, aren’t YOU the noble one! whoosh. how’s the air up there?
That is how I read it.
with all due respect, MSM is not going to look for ways to ignore any bad news for a Dem Pres Candidate – I like the idea that for once their ad nauseum “this will help McCain” meme may force Obama campaign to get real
Reagan first got elected because of the Iran hostages and anger at Carter.
OT: petition
http://salsa.democracyinaction….._KEY=25161
More on zionism for religous folks:
http://salsa.democracyinaction…..n_KEY=1310
I think it’s Havard Law for “Tough Shit”
yeah, Pro Choice America and Pro Constitution America. he’s seeing his money impacted by his “move to the center”. i wonder if it’ll teach him anything or if he’s really above all that, the “LEARNING” thing.
I think any bad news for Obama that makes the Netroots or the Left in this country seem stronger or puts us in a good light tends to get downplayed. But only time will tell, I hope I’m wrong.
that’s almost definately a result of his fisa, I don’t know any progressives who are still giving to this man
Yep.
ANd ya only stall when you think you can’t win.
which is bad news because if he starts to court the corporate donors, then he will be a corporatist just as we feared
oops, misread. sorry
and he could have it both ways by pointing out 81% of Americans agree with us
blergh. those berries, and hot sun, await.
remember. don’t eat your own young. it can be counterproductive.
Same here and I have to wonder if all this backtreading on his part are coming from the “hil” faction he recently hired.
True and that’s as it should be.
There is also a big effect from the Clinton side.
They are not going to give to Obambi.
Nu gunna happen.
why did all those comments load twice? is it me? i need some splainin, before i get some spankin.
If a few superdelegates would simply unendorse, it would be a media sensation. It would totally unhinge Obama’s campaign. He’d then have to purge the fools from his staff and show a bit of contrituion. He says he doesn’t do “cower,” be we’ve seen him do it. I wonder if he does “contrition.”
Plus a bad economy, high oil prices, a National Debt that became bigger than the number of Hamburgers sold at McDonalds all of which Bush has now given McCain to run on. Plus a war and no effort being made to catch Ossama.
Every dollar spent in Iraq is another Dollar not going to find Ossama!
He always has been he use big corporate donations to build his ‘money machine’ a good, smart move but he’s always been in Wall Street’s pocket.
Thanks Jane.
digg
That would be odd wouldn’t it- to hire some new campaign workers and then to totally reverse your moral and strategic compass cause they said it was a good idea?
Obama is accountable for his own decisions. He was NEVER to the left of Hillary.
point taken.
u r right.
yes, he hired some key HRC staff – but please don’t forget Daschle has been there all along and I can smell his yummy centrist goodness from here
DOW now nearing the 10,500 point level that it had gained the day Clusterfuck entered office…zero gain in seven and a half years.
So much for gooperomics.
Too late:
(apologies for the rerun from earlier)
It’s very similar to now, but Obama will suffer if he stays to the left. The Republics and McCain will be shouting “liberal! liberal! liberal!” and “liberal” is still a bad word to most voters.
How many threads have gone *cough* slightly off topic and turned into a general bash Obama thread since FISA?
How many threads have gone completely off topic to bash Obama because we are still angry at FISA? I don’t think the doing nothing and hope it will go away trick is going to work this time.
Why are we trying to blame HRC for everything like the repukes are always blaming all their problems on Big Dog?
As the huff and puff war of words with Iran grows- so does the price of oil which hit another record today…
Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!
Cute eh?
Whiner! ;)
Obama will move with the center right of the Democratic party. Every day the economy goes further south, liberals look more prescient to the rest of the party.
Phil Gramm had no clue he would stage the end of his own political career with his “whiners” comment. The political center is shifting quickly.
The last seven and a half years have been an unmitigated disaster and the goopers are running on more of the same
go figure
Sadly we see that the ‘Democrat’ Party is, just as the Rethugs are, rotten from the top down. What has been done in this primary battle to give the nod to Obambi is as disgusting as anything Karl Rove or the SCROTUS ever did. This is also playing a role in The Magical Asshole’s declining ‘take’.
Folks have a hard time understanding why FL and MI citizens are thrown overboard and also how that just happens to change who wins.
And, folks don’t want to give to an organization one of who’s leaders said, ‘We doan need no tire old white folks nor no poor wimmens neither…’ or words to that effect.
Whoops!
There went a few million in contributions, eh?
Thank you for that.
Natural reaction. After all, it was a huge blow for most of us.
But, we have to incorporate the reality into our plans and
MOVE. OFF. DEAD. CENTER. asap.
Thanks be to Jane and Christy and their wonderful crew.
But we have to pick ourselves up off the floor and HELP them.
Bullseye.
Can’t believe the markets and the media are not pillorying him for it.
OfT, did you play basketball in college?
I don’t think the numbers in Jane’s graphic represent the reasons we are looking for. They are only through May. Which raises a question, why is it taking so long to release numbers now? Didn’t we usually know numbers withing the first couple of days in a new month during primary season?
As someone who has also ceased all contributions to Obama as of late June, I have to wonder just how much his forced new reliance on big lobbyist corporate contributors might be an ill effect we the 1.7 million individual supporters. However, it matters little when he ignores his oath and destroys the 4th amendment with the same abandon as the fascist GOP.
The D party needs to at least provide a truly centrist leader who honors their oath and campaign promises and the progressive caucus in the House.. otherwise I am so not voting for them.
Well…
The Democrats have yet to beat them. So….
Why change.
Wait ’til McSame pulls out the ‘Demcorats have done nothing with their majority. The are the Do-Nothing Party.’
Howard Dean’s gut will be tied in knots.
Asshole.
No but Obama was to the Left of Hilary on the war the biggest issue of concern to us the activist base who votes in Primaries, gives money with no expectation of ever getting a government contract, and volunteers to help campaigns.
Now then how did Mark Penn miss that fact in his polling, unless it was an inconvenient fact that he was trying to burry because it conflicted with the Center Dem agenda he was trying to push.
Obama was against FISA before his shift Now on this issue from his previous position is what is pissing me off.
Boo
Yeah I started college on a basketball scholarship
I still can’t figure out why Hillary didn’t say her war vote was a mistake, based on lies…or why she lied about Bosnia.
Sounds like an injury ended your career.
Over the years I’ve read some comments from you about playing hoops. Saw a comment the other day about your height.
Any fun stories to tell about the the cut throat atmosphere of D1 basketball?
No.
He was not to the left of Hillary on the occupation of Iraq.
He never voted on it.
But he did vote Aye Sir! every time Mr. Decider wanted another 160 Billion to dump into The MeatGrinder. Every fukin’ time.
That is not ‘being against the occupation…’
The fools Kos, Bowers and Marshall never understood that and thus are now wiping the piss out of their eyes as Obambi zips himself up.
So is everyone else who followed their ‘lead’.
Was strange when she imperiously told everyone to fuck off. Kinds lost me right off the bat. “There are other candidates…”. I even replied to her, “There sure as fuck are, lady!”
because Obama was doing GREAT, all the while “hil” was tanking and spending astronomical amounts and stiffing sponsors, then he beat her, then joined hands with her, and now he’s swirling down the bowl.
it’s not a hard jump.
Because Hilary could have won this election, should have won this election but she risked her Cred to support keeping troops in Iraq.
Now Obama is repeating that mistake on FISA. Now we have to get mad and force Obama Left by cutting off his money Center Dem ideas are killing the Democratic Party our anti war position is whats bringing in votes.
Tacking to the Center did not help Hilary get any votes and its not getting Obama any votes.
A guess: a goodly number of politicians think it’s a deadly sin to admit any frailty or mistake whatsoever.
fwiw, i think that’s kinda nuts. Success should have a lot to do with how it’s done. Blatant lying or pretend-blindness to an issue is a sorry excuse for… anything. imo
Boo
Actually, becoming a father ended my career. My son and I grew up together.
It was a long time ago…at the college level it was more hard work than fun–but there was a certain amount of fun…
Played a game against an all american when I was a freshman—got all my clothing handed to me the first time he got the ball. I have never forgotten that lesson in humility.
Please everyone, Digg this story:
http://digg.com/2008_us_electi….._Economics
Yeah, you could say Cramer is a clown, but the more people that get the message out that McCain doesn’t know a damn thing about it, the better.
We now need to assume that all cross-border phone and email traffic is being recorded and archived for subsequent analysis. Here’s Chris Hedges’s op-ed in today’s LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..3314.story
O/T: Kucinich now has an impeachment petition on his site:
http://www.kucinich.us
No, I’m just saying that during the primary any time anyone on this blog and many other liberal blogs expressed any opposition to nominating Obama they were shouted down. And I’m saying that I easily predicted this, I said so many times and I think everyone else should have seen it coming.
Personally, I’m not giving Obama another penny. I’m sure the telecoms will fill the gap.
From MSNBC:
Dow below 11,000 for first time in two years
Index slumps amid fears over mortgage finance firms Fannie, Freddie
Well there goes my retirement money:>( God dam Bush and his rethuglian supporters!
Please use this disclaimer in all of your electronic communication especially when contacting your Reps… remember even faxes are being swept up from everyone of the backbones in the country.
Bradley?
Perhaps we should wait until the campaign releases their numbers and not trust a story in Murdoch’s WSJ:
Spokesman Dan Pfeiffer: “The Wall Street Journal report of our fundraising numbers is way off the mark. It appears that after 18 months, some in the press still haven’t realized that anyone who is talking about numbers doesn’t know what our numbers are.”
I mean, it’s not like a right wing paper has ever released a bullshit story to make Democratic politican look bad.
Mark Penn hires Karen Hughes. Seriously.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..12058.html
Adie
Naw- I’m not quite THAT old!
We really have one-party rule. We saw how the Democratic leadership was immediately coopted as soon as Dems were the House and Senate majority. We saw how Obama got coopted the minute the last primary was finished.
I don’t know who they are or how they do it, but I know how I’d do it if I had the facilities of the NSA at my disposal.
I’d like to see him demote or lose the folks he picked up from Clinton’s campaign. I don’t trust them to be on our side, I don’t trust them to be helping Obama, and I suspect they’re doing all they can, still, to get her nominated and Obama out.
What Obama thinks he’s doing is another matter, and I don’t plan to give money to him until he stops trying to pick up the mythical ‘moderate Republican’ voting bloc.
If he wants to be seen as a leader, he damwell should be leading.
—
Nahant @ 25
You should have signed up for the ‘daily digest’ only. You get almost as big a mail load, but it’s all in one big piece instead of several hundred smaller ones.
Obama doesn’t need our stinkin money. There plenty to be had by sucking at the corporate teat.
I learned early on that the higher level a sport was played at, the less fun it was. Like you said, there were moments of real joy, playing at such a level, but it was mostly work and it was SO Serious. Knowing there would be film the next day and a coach, waiting to expose every detail of your play in agonizing slow motion. Joy was found in the sand lot pick up games, it was less fun in jr high, even less in HS, we should have known…
My take was always that it was a hedge against the next attack. As a woman and as a Senator from NY, I have always given Hillary a pass on her AUMF vote. I hated the vote, but there were about ninety male US Senators who didn’t live in states who had been attacked. It was easier for ALL of them to vote against AUMF.
I saw no substantive difference between she and Obama until I saw the way she handled the Bosnia sniper story. For me that, along with stories of profligate spending at the top of her campaign and her running up a debt put Obama slightly ahead. A president has to be able to manage. Over the course of the campaign, I thought she didn’t manage her campaign as well. Later, her comments about “hard working white voters,” were injurious, but I had already made my mind up by then.
Now, that she has endorsed Obama, I wiped her slate clean. I think she’s clearly his best choice for VP as far as winning the election. Also, I think her candidacy will help liberal candidates more than the other VP candidates he is considering.
You’re makin my brain hurt.
Is he going to govern on the basis of his positions during the primaries or during the general election?
But even so – Obama has to win because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate. And to win he needs money and people working for him. And he needs to appeal to the majority of Americans. Plus he has the race thing working against him.
Granted what he did was hugely disappointing – but I would also like to point out that Obama going gung-ho on the FISA thing would not have changed the outcome in the least. He simply does not have that kind of power or influence at this point and the numbers on the votes were just not there – he’s not even the official candidate yet.
I was hopefull he realized he didn’t need the corporate donors and would therefore be a peoples president
I was wrong
Thanks.
I have all four years of my college eligibility remaining, so I enjoy the accounts of others who got the chance.
hee hee, sorry! just had to ask.
i AM that old. saw him play once. so-o-o smooth, we got to the end of the game (Princeton vs hapless Cornell) & I remarked to my honey, “Gee, he didn’t look that spectacular.” Honey says: “40 points all by himself? Um. What game were you watching?!”
That is not all. Have you read the other HuffPo story about what Penn’s wife is trying to do for the convention in Denver?
He wasn’t in the Senate to vote on it. But he did say he would pull the troops out.
Hilary wanted to keep the troops in Iraq or do you have an alternate theory on why Hilary lost?
Sure race does give Obama appeal but race relations were nowhere in the polls as a great concern to voters until Obama started moving up in the polls. The war was the biggest issue at least until Bear Stearns went under now the economy/ oil prices might be giving the war a race for biggest problem of concern to Americans.
Aside from the war and race relations I don’t see ANY issue that might have pulled Obama ahead of Hilary.
Sure Obama had a better internet fundraising set up but people won’t give money unless they want the product no matter the marketing.
Have you heard the joke about the dog food that wouldn’t sell despite all the cool commercials because the dogs did not like the food, supporting the war was the bad dog food.
-um- he’s not president yet.
mccain thread upstairs
t.
Disagree. He had the power in the month of June and first week of July. Genuine leadership on this issue would have been enough for most of us, even if it failed. And i don’t think it would have failed if the new party leader actually led on it.
For over a year I’ve been the only one talkin’ shit about Obambi. I’ve been banned in several places because the site owners did not want to hear what I had to say….
And all during that time I’ve watched as slowly, inexorably more and more folks have reached their WTF! moment with this crook and scamster. I find it very reassuring that in the end Obama has NOT been able to fool ‘all the people all the time’.
This is solid ground upon which true progressives can take back the initiative and make clear to the American people that no matter what form of vermin The Magic Man is….
He ain’t one of us.
I will still be hopefull adie…the very first thing he needs to do when in office is return to us the 4th amendment and our constitution
that will be my test
Good luck to you. Keep us posted, please. ;->
and I was gonna guess Cousy *g*
Who? /s
sorry.. accidentally posted this on the next thread instead of this one where it belongs:
——-
OT.. but wanted people to know about the following article on CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI…..index.html
..about how online bloggers (us?) have triggered an Obama backlash on the FISA vote! :)
I have sent all the Obama mailers back empty with “no warrantless wiretaps, no basket warrants, NO RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY” written on them. Am telling the campaign when they call me that I can’t support change I can’t believe in.
I am sure he will get the corporate donors, but we are the door knockers. He needs us for sure. I will work to elect Tom Udall to the Senate, if Tom has coat tails for BO, good on him.
Cramer is the best person on that channel I don’t trust his stock picks much but I do trust him more than the rest of them.
Obama has said, as he has done on EVERY issue, many things about getting us out of the occupation of Iraq.
You may continue to believe he will do that. That’s your right as a citizen to make up your own mind.
I do not believe him.
I have not believed a single word out of his mouth in over a year.
Not going to start now.
Absolutely! I couldn’t agree more.
Seriously, a little part of me is holding back, hoping he’s only doing what he has to to get elected, and then will turn back twd progressive just a tad, egad.
And in my dreams, I vote for Gore. *sigh*
Exactly. It was like all of a sudden Mark Penn was running his campaign. What triangulating bullshit to tell reporters it’s a good thing if the left doesn’t like it, because that provides credentials as a centerist. It does smack of Hillaryism.
The “mental stress” exception is a wedge, an invention meant to tear down Roe v. Wade at the margins, but ultimately, at its heart. It’s similar to the “Wedge Strategy” chosen by religious opponents of the teaching of evolution. In the case of abortion, it is not about restricting choice, it is about taking it away, about allowing others — who don’t share your circumstances — to dictate your choice for you.
Justice Kennedy invited it by condescendingly referring to “some women” who might change their mind or regret their decision to have an abortion. How would he know? On what valid research did he rely other than his gut feeling as a seventy-plus year old wealthy, conservative white male that women can’t handle decisions or the truth?
Obama was a fool needlessly to jump into this issue. A greater fool to assume that it won’t affect his fund raising or his popularity with those he needs to help him win. More foolish still to think that any position he takes on abortion won’t be bent out of recognizable shape by his political opponents.
He seems determined to correct Bush’s choice of never governing for all, only running for the few. If Obama insists on doing that before he wins office, he’s likely never to win at all.
I stopped giving to Obama because of FISA. For anyone whose only issue is choice, however, stopping giving to Obama because of imperfection on the abortion issue, given that the opponent is McCain, would be extremely self-defeating.
And I’m saying that I easily predicted this, I said so many times and I think everyone else should have seen it coming.
You predicted FISA or just that Obama would weasel to right and take a position that Nixon or Hitler would have been comfortable with. On what previous evidence did you base these predictions on or was it all a Priori?
As far as supporters of Hilary getting bashed well I at least was trying to force her to change her position on the war I thought a Priori that there was no center votes for Hilary to get by wanting to keep troops in Iraq because everyone was paying attention to the issues this election and if you pay attention its hard to be undecided if your informed.
If anything you should be happy the Obama is guilty of the same mistake Clinton is of going to a nonexistent center and losing the activist base. If anything you can say that Obama is no better than Hilary.
Relying on PP and especially NARAL for leadership in defending Choice is self defeating too.
Mine too!
As much as I liked the Boumediene decision, I thought Carhart was one of the worst, most imbecilic things I ever read.
{{{uncloaking}}} Sorry to lurk, but I had to make up hours at work after spending all day commenting here on Tuesday during the FISA debate.
Just wanted to mention that whatever numbers Barack puts up for June fundraising, his July fundraising is going to be hammered by a little-noticed trend: demands for refunds from pissed-off constitution lovers.
So, include your best estimate of the scale of refunds when you project his July fundraising total. One way to guesstimate would be to track the number of list-serv messages to the “VoteAgainstFISA” group on Obama’s website.
The campaign has staff dedicated to the FEC reporting process, called “Compliance.” The Compliance staff are confirming that the campaign is issuing refund checks, generally about a week to ten days after the request comes in. If you are thinking of asking for a refund, you can go to the fec dot gov website and run an “advanced” search to document your own contributions, assuming you gave at least one contribution of at least $200 during this cycle (smaller amounts, such as $50 or $75, will be included in your “total” but will not be separately itemized).
You cannot reach the Compliance staff through the toll-free number, which is a call-center in Minnesota. The Compliance staff are at the Michigan Avenue headquarters in Chicago, you must dial the (312) area code number or use the (312) area code fax number. FDL posted the fax number for that office during the FISA fax attack; the phone is (312) 819-2008.
{{{{{recloaking}}}}}}
Something seems to be wrong with that link.
you guys are gonna get a good kick out of this from think progress;
the man is a war criminal, it wasn’t something that was hidden from him, he knew with no doubt we were torturing people he had no idea had information or not, he was torturing people he knew would prove far better information assets without the practices of torture
he is depraveda and a war criminal, and a criminal against this country
I believe that statistics show a very small percentage of abortions are late term. One significant situation I was involved with delivered a mother of a fetus that was 7 months because it had been determined that the child had been dead for over a month. Being forced to carry a dead baby to term I believe constitutes unwarrented emotional pain for a mother under any circumstances. I suspect that Senator Obama has done little or no research on the subject but is trying to win over the anti abortionists on a hot button topic and has given little or no thought to anything but winning this election.
If the nation is completely polarized, then by definition there is nothing in the center. Also, data show that the left pole has many more voters than the right pole. And the left pole was to Obama’s left when he made his right turn.
Belief is one thing Fact is Obama said the magic words get the troops out of Iraq.
But on what evidence do you base your belief that he was a liar? I base mine on FISA.
Much appreciated.
I only sent him $25. I’m either going to ask for it back or tell him that I’m doing his campaign a favor by not asking for it back.
And the left pole was to Obama’s left when he made his right turn
That is a very good point:)
Pretty much what you said. I didn’t predict FISA, but I pretty much new he would veer hard right. I’m not happy about it, and I wouldn’t compare him to Hitler.
One word. FISA. Obama’s Achilles heal
Put our money where it counts with real candidates who will support our values. Even with a McCain as president we could control the damage if we loaded Congress with real Democrats.
You are the first person to really have good information on this issue. The first to try and answer one of the questions I had. I like that you looked beyond the politics which is important, but not as important as the people who will be affected by this issue.
I hope Jane brings up this topic again when we are not so pissed at Obama.
I don’t think so! We ned a President who will nominate the proper kind of JUdges. That is the item in this equation we tend to overlook, th efatc that McCain is guaranteed to appoint a bunch more Federalist Society Judges.
I watched a lot of Hogan’s Heroes as a kid the phrase “Your papers please” rings in my head everytime we talk about FISA.
He knew about America torturing people and didn’t stop it thats a PROVEN war crime if he did know because he is the Decider/President.
FISA works.
Alito and Roberts work.
‘I never saw the Rev. Wright say those things…’
‘I don’t really know Tony Rezko very well…’
‘I will get out of Iraq in 16 months…’
‘My uncle rescued concentration camp survivors at Auschwitz…’
I could go on the list is almost endless. Many are small things but after Herr Bush I am allergic to liars in office.
Hitler did listen to people’s phone calls right or did they not have the tech then?
Exactly right and Congress is where the power is accessible to us. Thanks to Joe and Obambit SCROTUS is lost and if Obambi gets into the WH he will immediately start, ala Nixon, an enemies list and make rebuilding the Executive impossible.
We needed more comments like that this thread:) I’m as guilty as anyone!
The sad fact is, he can tell us all to go fuck ourselves, because in the final analysis, no matter what he does, the alternative is going to be worse. I am sure that the National Party is now advising him on these key issues and that is why we are seeing this marked AIPAC and DLC drift. I resent the outright deception as much as anyone, I really hate for anybody to tell me something, not once, not twice, but thrice, and then abandon that promise waken it is convenient.
The reality is that there is nobody else (presently running) that I would rather see in the Presidency. Therefore, I shall work for Obama’s election. I would love to see a white knight at the convention, but consider the odds! Obama it is, Obama it shall be!The Republicans are more likely to switch candidates than are we.
Guess you might be right on this, Mr/ms.Citizen, Kmiec is kind of out there, from Mitt to Obama is quite the ideological leap. I certainly would not like to see this man on the court.
Reproductive rights is not really my issue, I am so old that I still suffer from “an infantile disease of the left” but I seem to remember that, once upon a time, children, long, long ago there were feminists abroad in the land. Not the sort of pale and wavering creatures that you see on the TV labeled feminists and most definitely not the near transparent wraiths that tremble at the sound of right wing criticism and run organizations like NARAL. No these were real actual feminists and they had a different frame for this debate and it went, if I recall, like this;
A woman is not 3/5 of a person, a woman is not 7/8 of a person, a woman is not 9/10 of a person, a woman is a person whole and complete.
A woman does not belong to her parents, a woman does not belong to her husband, a woman does not belong to the state, a woman, body and soul, belongs to herself.
A woman, consulting with those she chooses to will. ALWAYS and FOREVER make better choices concerning her body than any third party.
Therefore; legislators, judges, bureaucrats, cross-freaks, ayatollahs, myssy-men, patsies, and oh so concerned aunties of both sexes, should keep their filthy hands and disgusting minds off of and out of womens’ bodies.
And for women who oppose abortion we will fight to the death for your right not to have one.
And for men who oppose abortion we will fight to the death for YOUR right not to have one.
For always remember; a government that can say you must not can also say you must. Once control of our bodies is ceded to the state nobody has a choice. These are the choices you have now;
You can do nothing and spend the rest of your life convincing yourself that there was nothing you could have done.
You can follow the vacillators and compromisers and spend the rest of your life apologizing , every day, for having ever dared to think of yourself a person.
You can work to become the leader that you need to follow to get to the place that you want to be.
I am old, like John McSame, and perhaps I misremember and there never were people like the ones of which I speak, maybe I’m just making stuff up, I don’t know but that’s the way I remember things so long ,long ago.
Yeah and with the oil from Alaska going to Japan that will be a big hit also.
Try teh Google on how many times Kmeic has addressed the Federalist Society and then check to see who his son clerks for at SCROTUS.
People are slowly realizing that if you support someone who you disagree with they are NOT going to change their approach. Why should they.
As for McSame being worse.
I don’t agree.
And in three months folks her will be agreeing with me.
Just like they are now agreeing that Obambi is a liar and scamster. For which saying three months ago I was censured and banned, not here.
Wait and see.
The Magic Man is NOT the answer.
To any question.
In the interview here with Dahlia Lithwick from Salon she stated “Obama — a Harvard Law Review President and Constitutional law professor— has chosen to flee to the right almost singularly on constitutional issues.”. This makes me wonder if he would put a liberal on the court or would can we expect him to be conservative in his choices.
Sen. Obama is a flawed politician, but one with considerable potential. Potential that is less than progressives hoped for, certainly, potential that is further blunted by the flaws, ambitions and stupidity of his aides and the leadership of his party.
That potential won’t be realized unless the majority of the American public demand it. A one time vote ain’t nothing. Not with K Street lobbyists, aides, and Congressional and Cabinet peers constantly harping, chirping, demanding, cajoling, threatening, enabling, rewarding and obstructing. If there 101 Dalmatian puppies, only the ones who reach the milk will become Dalmatian dogs.
That said, Obama is very different than John McCain and that’s the choice. He is smarter, faster, stronger, more nimble, nuanced and sane. He’s also more cautious. Good when it comes to using warfare as a credit card with which to buy oil. Bad when it comes to domestic social reforms that require taking on vested financial, healthcare and bureaucratic opponents of reform. Gird your loins; it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.
And, yea, Obama aides that say, “Progressives are in the bag, ignore them,” need time behind the woodshed or another job.
They had something worse. Hitler Youth, a boy scout type of group where membership was mandatory. Many times they were convinced to spy on their parents or friends of their parents.
This is exactly right. I am disgusted that Planned Parenthood endorses Obama and am considering stopping my generous monthly payment to this organization.
Obama is losing supporters right and left over this sort of thing. Pro-choice is the mainstream opinion, not a fringie one.
I know what you’re saying. I didn’t watch “Hogan’s Heroes” much. I remember “The Great Escape”.
“What are these people doing? What do they see their role as? They’re supposed to be there guarding choice, not making it comfortable for Democrats to sell it out. “
Seems to be a recurring theme with Obama and the Democratic leadership – selling out and then relying on their mindless supporters to make excuses. This weak-kneed approach to leadership has had the predictable effect of reducing their natural base’s support, financial and otherwise.
Maybe just maybe some of us sitting on the sideline have decided he is not as inspiring as everyone once thought, see FISA capitulation.
Capitulation does not inspire donors.
What happened to that new shiny political “coalition” that was going to take over the world for the foreseeable future consisting of all these zillions of brilliant, inspired young urban and “inner-ring” suburban (presumably) males under 35 where old folks didn’t matter and screw women and those dumbf*ck blue collar workers and old school labor Dems? This huge, huge new liberal coalition that was taking over the world in the name of the Messiah Obama?
Yes, I’ll vote Dem this year, but I don’t give money to politicians that insult me and everyone I hold dear, and proceed to capitulate to the wishes of George W. bush on matters as important to Americans as upholding the 4th amendment and the rule of law. My money goes to electing BETTER Democrats. Go Blue America.
fuck obama
Today, Raw Story reported that Senator Chris Dodd was being seriously vetted for becoming the Vice Presidential nominee. Personally, I’d prefer him to Hillary Clinton. Insofar as I can tell, when it comes to campaigning, Hillary Clinton loses money. And I wonder how a Dodd candidacy would change the base position on Obama, the running commentary, let alone fund raising.
Out of all the name dropped for VP I like Dood. He is a hero in terms of FISA. I think he is too tied into the MIC. That misgiving aside, at least, I trust Dodd would not turn that weapon of war on the population. I also trust that Dodd would not be a barnacle and would work within the democratic prinicples of the nation.
Me too.
During the primary, I would not hear about any candidate but Senator Obama. I convinced my family and friends he was the one to reverse the abuses of the Bush administration.
After the primary, Senator Obama changed his mind on campaign funding….
Then he modified his position on abortion..
Then he announced he would expand Pres Bush’s marriage of goverment and faith….
After the primary, Senator Obama Changed.
he is going to expand Bush’s marriage of government and religion;
his support for abortion rights wavered;
he changed his position on campaign financing;
and I could ignore all this..
but he voted for the FISA bill he promised to filibuster, overriding the 4th amendment, granting immunity to telecomms who went along with Bush’s requests, stopping any investigation into what Bush really did.
I’ll give my money to the Senators and Congressmen who stood for the rule of law and voted against this new FISA expansion of spying power.
“once upon a time, children, long, long ago there were feminists abroad in the land.” Clothodi, comment #170.
We are still here!
I’ve been a feminist since I was 10 in 1965. I remember us. We have been magnificent.
But many women were pushed out of the Narals and Nows for being too dykey. So, although many women who remained were very dedicated they were squashed by their communities. Ostracism is pretty powerful. Then the apologists took over. A lot of us lost hope when the ERA wasn’t ratified. I personally turned in another direction politically.
I am saddened that Hillary was so vilified by the right and that the left bought the Repug’s rhetoric, sent through the media over more then a decade, about her. When she lost the delegates nomination I determined I would support Obama, until he started breaking promises: FISA, Abortion rights, separation of church and state, and campaign financing. The financing issue wasn’t a deal breaker for me. I have been very involved in doing my part about communicating my concerns and expectation to Obama. In fact today I recieved 5 form letters from his campaign office telling me what he has been saying for a week now. Bla bla bla…I ‘m going to do what ever I want bla. And I have listened to his left apologist spend countless words trying to figure out why he f#*ed us.
I predict Obama will break his half a$$ promise about Iraq because he has always added a caveat to his statement. He will pull us our of Iraq depending on “…what is happening on the ground”. Same as Bush. Different guy – same back-door deniability.
I quit my membership in Moveon.org, stopped my subscription to KOS and Huffington Post, and made sure I didn’t have to read Andrew Sullivan channel his nasty drag queen ever again, when the vitriol towards Senator Clinton became so childish, destructive, and predictable. The collusion of right and left wing men to sink her campaign worked. It hurt her particularly but it also hurt all women. Women say what happens when a women puts themselves out their. It is how they are, what we wear, how we speak, etc., that is lambasted by school yard bullies in suits and laptops. I guess Obama had something Hillary didn’t. No, you don’t have to take it out of your pants to show me. They are all politicians and have done what it takes to get there. Hillary just happened to be a women. In a lovely shade of turquoise pant suit. Thinking about that kind of “reporting” still makes me ill. I wonder if they will ever say Obama has just stepped out in a revealing bespoke suit that matches his eye color. Bloody not likely.
Anyway, I don’t give a damn if one of you smug punks think that older women have the intelligence or value of an earth worm. Truth is truth and you failed in an important opportunity to look beyond your own fears and anger at women during the primaries. Whether you like it or not Hillary was every woman who is strong and determined to take power,just like you have for so long. We heard you say women are shrill (bless you Glen for using this word so much in reference to men, I paid attention.), conniving, ball snatching, liars who aren’t going to take your interest to heart. You stayed afraid Hillary would use you then take your money. I watched it, heard it, and know it was one of the worst, openly and ugly backlashes against women I have ever seen. And I also don’t care if you can’t see it, won’t admit it, or you may try to make me feel inferior because you feel attacked. You guys might as well just save it. Most feminists stopped listening to you a while back. Your arguments against Hillary lost credibility when you supported a man without looking at his whole record or critically analyze his pretty speech-a-fying. Sexist men always say the same things, use the same tactics, and bore me to tears.
One lovely thing that came of all the debacle of the primaries is that young women watched and woke up to the fact that sexism still rules, women are screwed if they stand up to men and say I know better then you, and I should be the decider. In the plainest terms I can speak, I watched a national circle jerk at women with Senator Clinton as the proxy.
And the greatest blessing of all is that the denial of the women who believe in equal pay and state “but I am not feminist” found out they really are feminists. You guys helped give birth to a whole new generation of women that see your sh-t and won’t be quite so acquiescent the next time you tell them, “aren’t you cute, stupid, ill informed, irrelevent, and/or bitchy (take your pick) being so mad about such a little thing”. So I thank you for your obviousness in your attacks on Hillary. I thank Clothodi for her comments.
And finally, one of you guys said that you weren’t worried about Abortion rights. Couldn’t have said it better myself why men shouldn’t have so much power.
Shew, I’ve need to say that directly to you for some time now.
Caution: We still are abroad in the land. And proud of it.
Amazingly insightful comment.
Welcome to the Lake, as I have not made your acquaintance.
Sorry for the typos. I’m too tired to proof read.
The abortion issue is being lost due to the death of the thousand cuts. There will be no need to overturn Roe because it is being chipped away slowly but surely through a campaign of ‘little’ restrictions – each seemingly insignificant, each standing on its own as ‘reasonable’ and each adding to the sum of making abortions impossible to get.
Parental notification.
Husband/father notification
Husband/father permission
24-hour waiting period
Forced ‘anti-abortion propaganda’ film viewing
Relaxation of restrictions on protestor proximity
Requirements of location of clinic facility
Requirements of clinic floor plans and lay-out
Restriction of one type (the safest procedure) of late-term abortion
Prohibition of public funding for abortions
Prohibition of public funding for ‘morning after’ pill
Establishment of fetal ‘personhood’
Refusal to provide RU-486 to rape victims by anti-abortion healthcare providers
Refusal to provide RU-486 to any woman by anti-abortion pharmacists/pharmacies
I’m sure I have forgotten something.
By the way – the ban on late-term abortions is a joke.
There are three established medical procedures for terminating a late-term pregnancy. The ban only applies to one procedure. That procedure is considered to be the safest for the mother by most medical professionals. The other two options are still available.
The numbers are: Number of late-term abortions for the 15-year period between 1990 and 2005, between 897 and 1523, depending on your source. Compare that with the millions of first-trimester abortions performed every year in this country. This procedure is not wide-spread, is not taken on a whim, and is used only in cases of dire emergency, or as described above, when the fetus is either already dead, suffers from anencephaly (total lack of any brain development) or a life-threatening condition of the mother that was not present earlier.
It is a total wedge issue – but it is one of the ‘thousand cuts’.