Comments on: IndyMac Goes Belly Up in the Blood Tide of Economic Failure http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:47:58 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538362 Ian Welsh Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:30:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538362 <p>I don’t know. We’re still in early years. Probably this is our 29, if you use the 30s as a model. If you use the 70s, we’ve got less years of less pain, but still a ways to go.</p> I don’t know. We’re still in early years. Probably this is our 29, if you use the 30s as a model. If you use the 70s, we’ve got less years of less pain, but still a ways to go.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538361 Ian Welsh Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:29:49 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538361 <p>Government would probably take a loss on that, needs to be more than 20%. Probably 40%. House price drops are not being driven by the mortgage market and I don’t think this plan would stop the decline in real estate prices.</p> <p>In general Cramer hasn’t impressed me for years, I think he’s a great illustration of “genius is leverage and a rising market”.</p> <p>Could be wrong, maybe I’m missing something obvious, but it looks to me like he is mistaking the financial problems as basic when the economic problems are. (ie. the financial problems are more caused by the housing bubble thanthe other way around.)</p> Government would probably take a loss on that, needs to be more than 20%. Probably 40%. House price drops are not being driven by the mortgage market and I don’t think this plan would stop the decline in real estate prices.

In general Cramer hasn’t impressed me for years, I think he’s a great illustration of “genius is leverage and a rising market”.

Could be wrong, maybe I’m missing something obvious, but it looks to me like he is mistaking the financial problems as basic when the economic problems are. (ie. the financial problems are more caused by the housing bubble thanthe other way around.)

]]> By: craz3z http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538341 craz3z Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:52:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538341 <p>Jim Cramer from CNBC has a plan. I’d like to know what you think about it:</p> <p>If the Bush Administration had any sense, it would guarantee all of the debt of both mortgage houses and take 20% of the companies in warrants. If it took this step, mortgages would become the new treasurys and investors would scramble to buy mortgages and sell treasurys for a huge win that would stop the depreciation of housing prices cold.</p> <p>If the Feds were to adopt this plan, Cramer thinks the mortgage market would immediately rally as some much-needed liquidity would flood the system. Banks would rally and all the credit default spreads would implode. The beauty of the plan is that the government doesn’t have to spend a penny to do it, but it would fix what should have been fixed last year – WITHOUT A BAILOUT.</p> Jim Cramer from CNBC has a plan. I’d like to know what you think about it:

If the Bush Administration had any sense, it would guarantee all of the debt of both mortgage houses and take 20% of the companies in warrants. If it took this step, mortgages would become the new treasurys and investors would scramble to buy mortgages and sell treasurys for a huge win that would stop the depreciation of housing prices cold.

If the Feds were to adopt this plan, Cramer thinks the mortgage market would immediately rally as some much-needed liquidity would flood the system. Banks would rally and all the credit default spreads would implode. The beauty of the plan is that the government doesn’t have to spend a penny to do it, but it would fix what should have been fixed last year – WITHOUT A BAILOUT.

]]> By: ekunin http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538300 ekunin Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:13:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1538300 <p>Ian</p> <p>Do we get another Roosevelt to save capitalism? How will whoever it turns out to be manage it? The thing that gets me is the feeling government solves everything. Bad mortgages? The government buys them? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac down the tubes? The government to the rescue. The Fed discount window is open, but what can the Fed do other than print money and that’s got to be exceptionally painful somewhere down the line? Do we go through a period like Germany did in the twenties and thirties? </p> <p>What do you see in your crystal ball?</p> Ian

Do we get another Roosevelt to save capitalism? How will whoever it turns out to be manage it? The thing that gets me is the feeling government solves everything. Bad mortgages? The government buys them? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac down the tubes? The government to the rescue. The Fed discount window is open, but what can the Fed do other than print money and that’s got to be exceptionally painful somewhere down the line? Do we go through a period like Germany did in the twenties and thirties?

What do you see in your crystal ball?

]]> By: dosido http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537951 dosido Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:15:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537951 <p>You know, I listened to two full stories on freddie and fannie which is really difficult for me to digest and didn’t hear a single word about IndyMac which may have been a little reason why people are jittery.</p> You know, I listened to two full stories on freddie and fannie which is really difficult for me to digest and didn’t hear a single word about IndyMac which may have been a little reason why people are jittery.

]]> By: dmac http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537934 dmac Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:52:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537934 <p>oops wrong thread</p> oops wrong thread

]]> By: dmac http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537932 dmac Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:51:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537932 <p>here’s a firedog link that helped me back up my own ass on my calls, follow the links at the end………..along with one from yesterday that you can look up yourself</p> <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/28/mccains-cronies-handling-gramms-enronubs-baggage/" rel="nofollow">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05.....s-baggage/</a></p> here’s a firedog link that helped me back up my own ass on my calls, follow the links at the end………..along with one from yesterday that you can look up yourself

http://firedoglake.com/2008/05…..s-baggage/

]]> By: MFMC http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537907 MFMC Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:35:40 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537907 <p>The best thing may be to let the whole sh*t pile fall now rather than undergo a death of a thousand cuts. We still have enough safety mechanisms is place to set a bottom line,</p> <p>Then, we can begin to rebuild based on the fact that we the people count.</p> The best thing may be to let the whole sh*t pile fall now rather than undergo a death of a thousand cuts. We still have enough safety mechanisms is place to set a bottom line,

Then, we can begin to rebuild based on the fact that we the people count.

]]> By: goldstandard http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537840 goldstandard Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:52:13 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537840 <p>If the mantra ” to big to fail” is to be believed, then the only option would be to nationalize the banks. The question is not whether there would be a bail-out, but how hard the terms would be on creditors and shareholders. (Bear Stearns was not allowed to fail–but its shareholders were crucified.) With the failure of Indy, I found it amusing that come Monday ( according to CBS Marketwatch ) its new name will be Indy Federal Bank. Perhaps a small step in the right direction, but then again, I have always believed that the constitution had called for U.S. Treasury banks, not a private banking cartel called the Federal Reserve.<br /> If we are to believe that all of the US gold holdings in Fort Knox are actually in those vaults ( a full audit not being performed since 1955 ) then one can only question why Congress which controls weights and measures states that our gold is only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says its worth $950 an ounce. get off fiat and return to a sound money system as dictated by our founders. No matter how one may look at future developments, there is going to be a whole lot of pain before any light is seen at the end of this tunnel.</p> If the mantra ” to big to fail” is to be believed, then the only option would be to nationalize the banks. The question is not whether there would be a bail-out, but how hard the terms would be on creditors and shareholders. (Bear Stearns was not allowed to fail–but its shareholders were crucified.) With the failure of Indy, I found it amusing that come Monday ( according to CBS Marketwatch ) its new name will be Indy Federal Bank. Perhaps a small step in the right direction, but then again, I have always believed that the constitution had called for U.S. Treasury banks, not a private banking cartel called the Federal Reserve.
If we are to believe that all of the US gold holdings in Fort Knox are actually in those vaults ( a full audit not being performed since 1955 ) then one can only question why Congress which controls weights and measures states that our gold is only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says its worth $950 an ounce. get off fiat and return to a sound money system as dictated by our founders. No matter how one may look at future developments, there is going to be a whole lot of pain before any light is seen at the end of this tunnel.

]]> By: dmac http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537837 dmac Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:50:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/11/indymac-goes-belly-up-in-the-blood-tide-of-economic-failure/#comment-1537837 <p>crap, i like this thread. i can’t keep up.</p> crap, i like this thread. i can’t keep up.

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