The ACLU is going to challenge the FISA Amendments Act in court. They’re also going to be taking out a full-page ad in a major national newspaper in protest, and the first 10,000 people to sign on will have their names included.
The ACLU’s Anthony Romero:
The bottom line is that no president should have the power to monitor the phones and emails of Americans without a warrant. And no president should have the power to pardon companies that broke the law. This bill was not a "compromise," as some in Congress would like you to believe. The only thing they compromised was your freedom.
George Bush will sign the FISA bill into law in a few short days, but that does not mean our fight is over.
Our lawyers are prepared to file a lawsuit challenging this unconstitutional legislation as soon as the ink dries on George Bush’s signature. This is why it is so important that all of us add our names to the ACLU’s newspaper ad.
If you are on our email list you got to be first in line to have your name included last night. If you aren’t, it’s still early and you can still sign on here.
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FitZ!
There is a reason why I am a monthly contributor to the ACLU, a defender of Liberty member for the low price of $25.00/month….. Anthony go gettem…
Morning, Jane – I already got the email and signed up. Is the FISA fund going to do an ad ‘naming names’? I think people really truly need to know that their senators sold their privacy down the river.
Signed. Committed to monthly donations–that would have gone to BO. . .
Long-time card-carrying ACLU member.
Hypatia
great news Jane ! thanks.
KTUU (Alaska) is reporting a new indictment soon!
Signed first thing this AM. May not make it to the ad, but it still allows me to add my name to the outrage perpetrated by our supposed “representatives.”
too much to hope that it would be Ted Stevens?
but maybe his cohort?
Jane,
Turn up the heat a little more, I signed last night and contacted both my senators and rep to let them know, on no uncertain terms ,that they are a traitor to the constitution and their oath of office.
30+ felonies is what they are covering up. The stups that voted for this bill are accessories to obstruction of justice.
Until bush signs this piece of shit, FISA is the EXCLUSIVE law of the land with it’s 5 year prison term for each offense.
It’s blatantly against the 4th amendment, glad to know it’s going to go through the courts.
*fingers crossed for the ACLU*
On your email list, already signed on last night, Jane…decloaked from Prairie Sunshine, Sandy Huseby proudly added her name to the ACLU ad.
[and in case anyone wonders, it’s easy, you can opt out of the ACLU emailings, but that’s another way/tool to keep your citizen activist toolkit up to date].
~ Prairie / Sandy
I’m in for $20/month…that would have gone to Obama’s campaign.
In my opinion this challenge has a much greater chance of succeeding than our unsuccessful appeal to the Vichy Democrats ever did.
Philip Paul will be on that list.
I signed up immediately last night.
Thanks for keeping the heat on ‘em Jane.
This is a perfect example of the power and the responsibility we as citizens have, if we choose to exercise it.
If Congress fails in its due diligence to provide oversight, then we must…and shall.
Shame on the feckless Senators and Congresspeople who voted for this to happen. Where are all those Second Amendment Congresscritters who fail to give the same concern to the rest of the Bill of Rights?
OT –
jane just want to say “thank you” wrt another topic. last night jayt linked to wexler’s new post at huffington: Iran Resolution Must Change:
when wexler was here for book salon, some of us gave him a very, very hard time about his support for this resolution – especially about the call for a naval blockade.
if you get the chance, will you please give him our thanks? i’m pretty sure he’ll never see emails we send to his office.
Thanks Jane.
digg
Im in. Thanks
I have only one problem with this lawsuit from the aclu;
it’s gonna be rushed through so alito and roberts and scalia will rule on it, that means the chances are slim the lawsuit prevails
got back into town yesterday, catching up.
got a lot to do before i can catch up on news.
but took time to do this-
signed. phone calls made.
still can’t believe it. my antennae are saying there’s something else here we aren’t seeing. just sayin’….(and no, not the tinfoil antennae, the real ones.)
if there are certain threads i should see from this past week, please mention the day so i can narrow it down. i will check later……thanks……
(if we had the calendar would be easier to catch back up, hint hint)
thanks fdl.
bbl
((((Jane))))
Thanks to your e-mail alert, we both were on the list by last night.
Let’s go git-r-done!
Democratic spine-stiffener comin’ up, STAT.
c’mon perris. jeez.
have some fresh-picked black-raspberries. Did I say they’re fresh, organically grown, untouched by any but my own fresh-washed hands.
there y’go. good boy. we saved you a space anyway. why let it go to waste?
if we can’t fight even “lost” causes, what’s the point of being here at-all a-tall…
stubborn can be incredibly powerful.
yada yada yada then we win.
Better chance now while we have at least 4 who believe in the rule of law for the people not the corps. Even if O does get elected who says we can trust that he won’t put justices on the court who will stand up for liberty. He’s shown us that he doesn’t.
I’m really seriously thinking of only voting for my local state reps come Nov. The rest of the ballot will remain blank.
Oh, and I signed on last night as soon as I got the e-mail.
GO JANE!
Better chance now while we have at least 4 who believe in the rule of law for the people not the corps. Even if O does get elected who says we can trust that he won’t put justices on the court who will stand up for liberty. He’s shown us that he doesn’t.
I’m really seriously thinking of only voting for my local state reps come Nov. The rest of the ballot will remain blank.
Oh, and I signed on last night as soon as I got the e-mail. And have been on the monthly plan for both the ACLU and PFAW for a couple of years now.
GO JANE!
take a bow, Selise. I think he heard you.
I’m so glad to hear that the ACLU will challenge this garbage piece of legislation. It’s what I’d hoped for, but could someone please enlighten me? I know that some other cases, that is, civil cases, have been tossed out due to lack of standing. OTOH, it seems fair to me that the citizens of this country all have rights, even responsibilities, to make sure that even their elected representatives don’t infringe their rights in a manner that is not consistent with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I also see that the federal courts have been much more diligent than the other two branches in regard to protecting their own powers under the separation of powers as a coequal branch of government. But I’m still puzzled about the matter of who has standing in this or whether a constitutional challenge requires standing?
I for one will not vote for Obama in the general election. I’m a lifelong Democrat and have voted for, donated to, and campaigned for all the Democratic candidates since Bill Clinton’s first run, when I turned eighteen.
We should try to take the nomination away from Obama at the convention on this basis alone. I didn’t support him or Clinton, but Clinton is the only other candidate with a fair claim to the nomination. We should contact our local superdelegates and try to persuade them to cast their lot with Hillary instead of Obama, regardless of their previously stated positions.
He’s not the candidate many thought he was, and if you’re disappointed with the “Constitutional Scholar” now, wait until he gets into the Oval Office.
sorry about the double post. Site acting funky. Mods—can you delete one of them please?
(((RevDeb)))
Please think long and hard before doing that.
Sometimes in the heat of anger, people become their own worst enemy.
ymmv
The first thing that crossed my mind as I entered into consciousness this morning, waking, was that my government just sold us all out. They KNEW we didn’t want this, they KNEW it was wrong and an affront to the Constitution, they KNEW it was a violation of their oaths, and they did it anyway.
It’s bs. They knew it was wrong and they did it anyway.
I want every single senator who voted yes on this to be replaced.
Sorry, but that’s what needs to happen. To every single “Aye” voter on the Senate and the House floors. I’ve washed my hands of Obama. I’ve requested my donations to him be returned. That’s a sizable chunk by now, and I want it to go to Russ Feingold’s Patriot Funds and to the ACLU specifically for this fight.
And, of course, some of it to Firedoglake. For providing to me a place and a community of like minded patriots.
Thank you Jane. I feel like going back to bed. This post and action helps. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK. NOW!
dday has a good wrap up on yesterday’s Muke hearing.
Pretty much says it in the last line.
poor hamsters are cranky this morn. fitting…
I’ll be thinking long and hard about it until I go into the voting booth. But I think it will take quite a lot to move me from that position. I don’t know what that will look like or sound like, but the way I’m feeling right now, a pox on all their houses.
gotta go treat sick kitty and find someplace for folks to sit down in our cluttered abode. ’bout time i stopped bothering the poor hamsters anyway.
Thank you all for your activism. Together, we CAN.
P. E. A. C. E.
I’m not seeing or hearing anything about Rover’s hearing this morning. Was it cancelled? The link on the HJC web site to a web cast isn’t working.
Any news?
Great Jane!
I signed up and my list of over 400 rabid defenders of freedom have been TOLD!
Let’s show Bush and his criminal enablers in the ‘Democrat’ Party that we are in charge.
Not they.
I will vote for Obama in November. That said, not one more dime not more of my time for him.
. . . What a difference a day makes . . .
OK, saw in the Boston Globe feed that Rove ignored the subpoena. No surprise. Now Nancy is going to give him a hall pass I bet.
I’ve been trying to view that also, with no luck.
I don’t know why I can’t pull up CSpan3 on my puter, it’s not working.
I wish they’d just go get his porcine ass, drag him in, sit him down and at the first sign of non cooperation and arrogance, just shackle him and perp walk him to the basement.
Right. Now I KNOW I’m still sleeping and dreaming.
Tell you the truth, I’m with you. My vote will be an undercount, thank you very much. And I’ve already changed my party affiliation from Democrat to none. It’s too bad I haven’t any money to withhold, or I’d do that too. My only regret is that I have to take this out on real leaders like Howard Dean to get my point across. I wonder if they have the money yet to put on their convention?
I would like to see a massive wave of people ignoring subpoenas, as a protest.
One standard will do just fine.
CSpan 3 has a hearing on finance. Barney Frank presiding.
Dream on. When I suggested inherent contempt to Joe Sestak he laughed.
Na ga happen.
My disgust knows no bounds at this point.
Time to go read a stupid novel. That’s about all I can take right now.
Obama must be really angry then.
The best thing that could happen is Miss Nancy’s ’supermajority’ does NOT appear.
Right now we’ve got an evil pack of jackals, the RePubs, who have been riding high for decades ably supported by their ‘Democrat’ party pals. I say that we will get nowhere helping the Dems take more power as they have demostrated conclusively to anyone following their actions that they care only about getting elected, this is one reason they do poorly against ReThugs by the way, and we don’t need anymore folks who call themselves ‘Democrats’ voting for Roberts and Alito, Obama…, or Cheney’s ‘Energy Bill’, Obama…or FISA ‘compromise, Obama….’
Better to let the Dems get their ass handed to them this Fall.
They might then be in a mood to change their ways.
Support them and give Miss Nancy what she so desperately needs to hang on to power and you can just keep bending over because ‘they’ are gonna keep giving you the shaft.
Don’t bother piling on this comment. I have to leave now and I’ll close with this:
Politics is a rough game and if you think rolling over and showing ‘them’ yer belly is gonna work please leave the building.
That tactic never has and never will work.
like i said to newt – only with you jayt, prof. foland, and everyone else who was in that choir. but most of all fdl for giving us the soapbox from which to speak and be heard.
p.s. i hope we weren’t the only people he heard from on that one
This Gail Collins column deserves some comments. I shudder to think how awful her new book about women might read.
The Audacity of Listening
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07…..llins.html
I signed. Can I have my name in BIG BOLD letters like John Handcock?
btw “go get his porcine ” love it.
The EFF too! While the ACLU is hitting the constitutionality of the law on 4th Amendment grounds. The EFF is attacking it on the unconstitutionality of the legislative interfering in the realm of the judicial.
They are both acting in concert to bring the two separate unconstitutional aspects of this to the court.
could be.
i wonder if ever, in his wildest dreams, he could have forseen the firestorm of reaction his choices triggered during this moment of his in the light of day.
i imagine he’s regarded himself as tough and savvy.
well, he’s gonna have to prove it. isn’t he?!
i s’pect Ted Kennedy could share some words of wisdom with him, perhaps to good effect.
stay tuned.
DWT has a nice thank you post up: SAYING THANK YOU TO REAL AMERICAN PATRIOTS WHO STOOD UP FOR US
I guess not _all_ dems are bad.
sorry. my 49 was in reply to you.
What’s the ACLU thinking on the content of that ad??
Let’s tell Congress that “next time” ….they better not do this again” ?? and you actually want to list the names??
Has the ACLU grown spineless and witless too??
Put some damn meat in the ad, tell the people the names of those Senators who voted for it – in big letters – tell them those Senators put cronyism, pandering and profiteering before country, before party and before the people.
And list specific examples of, say Rockefeller and Feinsteins ties to those war profiteers.
That’s an ad worth your money on and one citizens will remember, and share.
First I want to apologize to Jane for not putting my name on the ACLU ad- despite having been formerly a card-carrying member. I live outside the US and am afraid – despite the FISA language- of being targeted if I raise my profile. That’s the tragedy of present day America. But for those who are ready to abandon the political process, I beg you to reconsider. The Democrats ain’t much, but they’re all we have. Rather than dropping out, we need to find ways to be more effective in getting them to do the right thing.
well said, and understood. ;->
I agree 100%
I was REALLY pissed last night when the goddamned DCCC called me to ask for support! Jesus H Christ! I have removed my name from their mailing lists with an explanation why (Because of telecom immunity, because of the Iraq War Without End, because of investigations that go nowhere on purpose, and because “impeachment is off the table”) AND I have shut off their previous calls asking for support…yet they still call! I told the person on the phone that I will NOT support Democrats with votes or money because they just gutted the 4th Amendment on the FISA vote and gave telecoms immunity. No doubt, they will call yet again.
I may have to take out a legal complaint against them to see to it that my name and number are friggin’ removed from their sucker list once and for all.
I wont be voting for Obama in the fall. No way, no how. Cynthia McKinney or Nader, those are my choices.
I will also be casting a vote AGAINST Bayh, even if that means voting for a Republican (which I have NEVER EVER done in the past).
sheer perfection is a wonderful, elusive dream, ain’t it?! dang…
numbers numbers numbers, grasshopper.
u want courage? u gots ta have the numbers.
puleeze. do. not. throw. your. vote. away.
puleeze do your darndest to keep anyone else from stealing it from you.
That wonderful old hackneyed sign:
THIMK!
You’re right, the author definitely has a point, and it’s one that is well taken. However, I really don’t consider it terribly smart to kick your base in the teeth and tell them you don’t need them anymore. I also think that, as a Constitutional scholar, we had more of a right to believe that this Senator would protect and defend the Constitution as his oath of office vowed. I especially think we had firm reason to believe this since he was right with us up until he won the primary. It’s just since he flipped on this that we became more aware that he is far more devious and untrustworthy than we ever suspected. You can’t unring a bell, and once disillusionment sets in, it’s a stain that hardly ever comes out. So be it, Obama. Better than McBush doesn’t say much for the quality of your character.
And BTW, I didn’t vote for Hillary due to her position on Iraq (and the fact she would not admit it was a mistake,) due to her support for an amendment that would make Flag-burning illegal (bye-bye freedom of expression,) and her vote to declare Iran’s Revolutionary Guard “a terrorist organization” in order to give legitimacy to GW’s newest attempts at saber-rattling. I felt we really didn’t need to fight an additional war on yet another front while we didn’t have a strategic reserve or enough troops left to do justice to the two wars we already had ourselves embroiled in. I was voting for a possible way out of quagmire.
Those who keep voting for those who betray them time and time again are not doing ANYTHING constructive and are, in fact, wasting their vote.
Obama spits in your face. You still vote for him. He takes away your rights. You still vote for him. He sends more jobs to other countries because of his love for NAFTA. You still vote for him.
What does he learn? That he can do ANYTHING and you will still vote for him.
So why do anything different? It is more profitable, politically and economically, if he just keeps fucking you and everyone else because you will still give him your full support when it matters most.
Not me. Not any longer. I will not throw my vote away by rewarding those who are diametrically opposed to everything this country (and the party they affiliated with) stands for. I will not throw my vote away by rewarding the continued gutting of the Constitution, the continued illegal raiding of other countries for their natural resources, the continued “privatization” of all aspects of your lives. No more.
I will not reward bad behavior…and I will most assuredly NEVER vote for Bayh under any circumstances whatsoever. I’d rather have a Republican in actual name than a Republicrat. With the former you know exactly what s/he is and what s/he will do. With the latter, all you get are platitudes, lies, and promises – but when it comes time to actually vote on bills, they vote Republican. I’ll take a real Republican over a faux Republican anytime.
I’m with you. Fuck Obama!
Vote local.
I fully understand your reasoning for your vote. But I beg of you, please don’t be stupid. A vote against Obama is a vote for McCain.
A McCain presidency would be the end of our Constitution. The fascism begun under Little Georgie and The Big Dick will blossom unfettered and the freedoms we have grown up with, and expect to continue, our way of life, as imperfect as it is, will all be gone.
Please don’t be foolish. Those Florida voters in 2000 who voted for Nader enabled the stealing of the election (yes, it was stolen, assaulted, and overturned by 5 men in black robes), and they are responsible for 8 years of incompetence, malfeasance, traitorous selfcentered motivations, resulting in the illegal war in Iraq, the destruction of New Orleans, and numerous other instances of Bush Happened.
I am disgusted with Obama for his vote. I have no comprehension why he sold out. BUT, I will vote for Obama because there is no other way to rectify this abomination. There is no other way to move forward and start the process which will overturn the abomination that the administration of Little Georgie and The Big Dick has been.
Please, do not foolishly throw away your vote. Be angry now. But in November, do not enable the proto-fascists to become full-blown fascists. If you vote against Obama, you are voting for McCain. It’s that simple.
whoa lone ranger! I think the cinch on Silver’s saddle has loosened a bit too much for our combined safety.
Actually I voted for Edwards. I would vote for Gore. I have never voted for Obama, yet.
I educate myself and vote based on issues and performance.
I am represented by ONE very progressive Senator, thank you very much, and I see no reason to stop voting for him out of some pique of high anger. The other bit of fluff currently wandering the halls from OH: I have NEVER voted for him, nor will I, but I do pester constantly, and vote for his opposition at every opportunity.
Clear? Suggest Silver might run more efficiently without overuse of the crop. just sayin… as an over-the-hill, former horse trainer.
aloha stranger.
Sorry. My vote wrt Obama is set irrevocably in stone. He ain’t gettin my vote. Cynthia McKinney or Nader is.
What is debatable (except for Bayh) are down-ticket candidates.
I am leaning with a general set of simple rules: Vote Green. If no Green, vote Libertarian. If no Libertarian, vote some form of Socialist. If ONLY a Dem and/or Repub, abstain from voting in that particular contest…except for Bayh. If a Repub is the ONLY alternative to Bayh, then that loser gets my vote.
Bayh MUST go. He’s a “good” as a Repube anyway so I might as well vote for a real Repube.
Fine. Just don’t expect the rest of us to go sleep in the outhouse with ya.
Jim at 61: Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
omg nader??? Never mind, Silver. I’ll break open another bale for you over here…..
Unkle Karl took a crap on Congress and didn’t bother to show up. His lawyer says he can claim executive privledge even though Little Georgie, or his counsel, has not extended such privledge to Unkle Karl.
It’s either inherent contempt or, it’s okay to take a crap on Congress.
I have a suggestion for a new campaign slogan for Obama:
Obama, not quite as bad as McCain!
I’m sure that’ll fire up his supporters.
someone needs a nap.
Nader would be a selection for the sheer “poetry” of it, so to speak.
I voted Gore in 2000, by the way.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Obama go down because of Nader pulling his votes away. Poetic justice.
As for the rest of the ballot…it would be one thing if there were ANY useful (and proven) progressive Democrats for me to vote for in Indiana (there are not, at least in my area). If it were true, then I would certainly vote for the truly progressive Dem, but that is fantasyland and doesn’t exist here. Thus, I will not vote for any Dems in November.
The Constitution can ONLY go away if CONGRESS allows it to. They have demonstrated that they are more than willing to help it go away, including with the help of a number of ActBlue candidates, so I am a bit leery of supporting any of them at this point anyway.
The more votes a 3rd party gets, the better. They get more press, they get more attention, they get federal support in subsequent elections, they become a generally viable alternative to the two corrupt parties.
My vote against Obama and against Bayh (and other Dems in my district/state) does no real harm and can only help…3rd parties. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for a 3rd party candidate, not a vote for McCain or what have you. Only a vote for McCain is a vote for McCain.
A vote against Obama is a vote for McCain.
Will you use your highly-principled vote to put John McCain in the White House?
Do you want to assure we nuke Iran? Do you want to assure the continued disparity of wealth between the ultra-rich and the rest of us? Do you want to assure the privatization of Medicare and Social Security? Do you want to assure the continued destruction of our Constitutional rights? Do you want to assure that we all will live in a police state? If so, throw your vote away and vote against Obama.
Ron Paul and his supporters are organizing a March on Washington, July 12.
http://www.revolutionmarch.com/
cry me a river
2 thots intrude thru the haze covering my puny brain:
1. Go thou and buy thyself a better math book.
2. Vote with your feet, and consider moving to a more progressive environment. It might do wonders for your health, and ours.
I voted for the best man to run this country NADER in 2000 so lay off your guilt trip about wasting my vote. Stop repeating the lie that a third party candidate RUINED, JUST RUINED an election, it was stolen just by the felon list alone. Both parties have a vested interest in convincing us that only they could produce the two most outstanding candidates. Tell me Obama and Mc Cain are the very best this country can muster,Please.
I agree with you for the most part. I really feel that when you consistently vote for someone that has betrayed you, even as the lesser of two evils, it reinforces their behavior and does not hold them accountable, which was the whole point of opposing retroactive immunity. My only question is, by your own logic, doesn’t that mean that most of us should actually be “protest” voting for Nader? He actually does have a long standing record of standing up for principle regardless of the costs. Although I’m still a bit miffed about his entering the race against Gore, which I think did more harm than good, still, he certainly stands for more of the things that I believe in and I trust him now far, far more than I do Obama. I thought I would not vote against Obama, just not for him, I may actually vote for Nader instead now.
As of now I plan to vote for my state sen. and state rep. and leave the rest of the ballot blank. Not voting for, not voting against either Obama or Sestak. Just not voting.
Moving to a new, progressive place…only the well-off can say that with a straight face.
this is going nowhere, and i’m getting snippy, for which i apologize, sorta, like, as it were, in a manner of speaking, fwiw.
my condolences to Silver. Best choose another mount in the future. ymmv.
you need a hand up outta that ditch a’fore i go?
naw. didn’ think so. eye of the beholder & all that cr##. good luck to all of us. we’ll need it.
p.s., u reely want mccaint or paul or ??? to choose the next supremes?
reely & trooly??? egad.
consider that a sharp poke, from an old hag with a wicked sense of humour.
P. E. A. C. E.
Did you know that, on averate, horses are easier to ride, and less tempermental than Shetland ponies? Didn’t think so. Try proving me wrong.
No.
You enabled the felon.
Yes, he and his cronies stole the election.
But they could not have without your help.
If you and your fellow travellers would have voted for Gore instead of using your highly-principled votes to vote for Nader, JEB could not have fixed enough votes. It really is a matter of numbers. The primaries are over. In the United States, if you don’t vote with one of the two major parties you are throwing your vote away. We do not live in a country with a parlimentary government or proportional voting. It’s the way it is.
Sorry, but you must accept your own culpability.
Nader voters enabled Bush to steal the White House. Enabled.
Adie has the right idea. This is getting snippy.
I will go now and bewail the fate of our country. But I will also work on how to fix it. Until that great day… peace to all.
AMEN! Brother!
and these citizens are contemplating a repeat performance.
over my cold de&d body they will…
I. Will. Not. Surrender. to teh stoopid math of the past.
Shetland ponies are funny. I used to ride one that would run, do a full stop and put it head down to get you off. And if it was near the barn he’d run in through the human door cause your legs wouldn’t make it through the door.
Besides which…
The FISA vote/telecom immunity vote was a very very slow softball pitch. Obama swung and missed. THAT’S leadership for you baby!
Now, after having utterly failed that very first test of his leadership post-primary, there are those who honestly think he will narrow the gap between rich and not-rich (while not upsetting Wallstreet!), which is easy but nonetheless harder than the FISA vote? Think that with the slow pitch softball of FISA being totally missed means he will not be belligerent with Iran (because they are uppity and not accepting our corporate ways and had the AUDACITY to kick out our specially selected Shah of Iran)? Think that he will actually do anything other than create MORE NAFTA-type deals (now that he loves him some NAFTA)?
The end result, except for modest details here and there, are the same with Obama or McSame. But here is THE bottom line: he can’t do ANYTHING (not Obama nor McSame) without the full-on consent of the Congress.
By voting for Democrats, at least for incumbents, you are voting for THE SAME Congress that ALLOWED Bush/Cheney to get away with everything they have done these last 8 years. They had the power, truly, to stop it at any point, but they “elected” not to do anything…because they are OK with most of it.
I’m not falling for the game this time (or ever after). I will not support the party or the Congress that allowed Bush to invade Iraq, allowed them to spy on Americans sans warrant with wild abandon and then gave them legal cover for it just yesterday, have fed the Iran War circle, have specifically NOT done anything to reign in corporate/contractor corruption in Iraq, Afghanistan, or even in the USA itself, etc.
Since it actually took the current makeup of Congress, a DEMOCRATIC Congress mind, to pass the FISA bill, telecom immunity, and to place impeachment off the table, what value is there in supporting the very same people again? Sure, there are some few notables (do you count Webb among them, by chance? The ActBlue darling who voted 4-square against the anti-immunity amendments AND for the FISA bill), a major portion of the party, ie, the ENTIRE leadership, is unacceptable and corrupt. Reid, Pelosi, Emmanuel, Hoyer, Schumer, etc, etc, etc, are all corrupt…are you voting for them nonetheless? Sure you are. Good luck with changing anything at all there.
Yes, what we really need to stop these things is a Democratic majority in the Congress. Oh, wait…
I’m just getting the loud and clear 8X10 glossy here that there will be NO holding this administration accountable, no Hague, no taking of responsibility for driving my country into a ditch. they’re gonna skate like it was an entirely legal and functional administration, 8 years of it.
it’s making me sick.
we are NOT a nation of laws here anymore. wake up and smell the coffee.
this is and we live in a rogue nation. and no one cares who knows about it or finds out.
just for the record. in 2000, i voted for gore in a “safe” state.
and i wish to completely disassociate myself from JimTheCynic’s comment @80.
it is a candidate’s responsibility to earn the support of the voters – the primary responsibility for voters deciding to vote for nader instead of gore is gore’s. and gore gave voters reasons to look for alternatives.
and for folks who really want to encourage voters to supporter the democratic candidate – bullying may make you feel better, but i hope you understand that it does nothing to persuade and a lot to drive voters away.
You’re absolutely right. You win the prize.
Ya gotta luv um, sorta. Smarter than most people, prolly.
I have 3 horses. Never ever been bucked off but not for lack of their trying every once in a while. When they try, it makes the ride exciting and a little more fun…but I’ve NEVER ended in the ditch and don’t expect to.
there. fixed it for ya. ;->
I once was the 1st one in our crowd up on a lovely Arab that had been abused by previous owner, but newly arrived in wonderful loving environment.
Made “mistake” of slightly touching her behind the saddle as a calming gesture, and missyarab took off like a rocket.
Took down 3 fenceposts, I did! She steamed right on through the 4th & 5th in her panic, poor thing. We were all fine. She came to be one of the best, sweetest ladies in the herd.
There’s a moral in that somewhere, surely.
Indeed. With a Democrat SUPERMAJORITY, they will be able to pass another anti-Iran, pro-attack “sense of the senate” without any delays whatsover! Just think about how fast they will grant Obama “fast-track” trade authority! And how fast Obama will work to sign more Friedman-esque “free trade” atrocities. Or how easy the insurance companies will have it in writing the first healthcare (Obama-care!) bill post Obama’s election in the fall!
Everything will be candy and roses…err…
There was a scene on West Wing and I wish I could remember the dialog, but it was Bradley Whitford and Mary Louise Parker discussing a client she was working for running against someone that Josh was supporting. Since Amy Gardner, Parker’s character, was living with Josh Lyman at the time, this was a source of contention. But I do remember what she finally said as he hysterically proclaimed that her candidate was stealing his candidate’s votes. She made some comment, and then said, “because they’re not his votes!”
It seems to me that’s the gist of the problem with our modern politics in a nutshell. Obama is counting his votes before they actually become his votes. He already thinks that he can do whatever he wants and there is no accountability to us, because there is nothing we can or will do about it. I think if we don’t do something about it, we will have many of the same problems as we have now, a runaway government, out of control, using powers they’re not even supposed to have because there is no one willing to impose any accountability. We will have a Democrat in the WH and a democratic majority in both houses of Congress doing the same rubber stamp thingy the Rethugs did. What’s worse, I don’t trust Obama anymore, and the Blue Dogs were enough of a majority to combine with Rethugs to carry the FISA legislation, and 21 Democratic Senators voted for the legislation too, to make the vote a rout for GWB. WTF is good about that!
So a few principled (probably better informed) Nader voters are to blame?
Several million registered D’s crossed over and voted for Bush. And, oh yeah, Diebold, Tim the cagey vote cager Griffin, Tom Delay and his fascist minions storming Florida, The Supreme Court and Diebold, to name a few egregious culprits in the GOP RICO crime syndicate.
But a few Nader voters are to blame for Bushco stealing the election and millions of D crossovers.
I think anyone who wants to pass the math test needs to add this section to their homework assignment.
And the D party is still running towards that segment? When a simple stand for the constutution would have secured an enormous segment on all fronts!!
My vote is up for grabs as of yesterday afternoon.. and I don’t think Obama genuinely wants it anymore.
nobama said as much in his statement before the vote.
It wont happen but…ideally, the House would go back to the Rethugs while the Senate would barely be held Democrapic (sans Lieberman). The Presidency…hardly matters but let’s say it is der Fuhrer Obama. That way, the SCOTUS will be filled by Fuhrer Obama’s KENNEDY-modeled justices (rather than a GOOD pick) and the Dems will see them into their new seats without hitch. The overall move on the court will be rightward, which was inevitable given Obama’s dictatorial temperament but there you go…you women will STILL retain SOME reproductive rights. Anyway, Obama would then have his most beloved dream: “bipartisanship up the ying-yang!” Ooodles of opportunities to give a reach-around to the GOP in the House while the compliant Senate goes along for the sake of comity.
Pelosi out of power, Hoyer out of power…a double win AND impeachment will be back on the table!
When I 1st discovered the Monty Roberts training method, I wondered why it took so long for people to hear about it. We’d been doing that sorta thing with great success back in the ’50’s, just because it made sense to work cooperatively at this training thing, rather than “breaking” the horse.
My horse & I taught eachother – and ended up doing dressage, because we knew folks who had the money and took the lessons, so we could copy. She never seemed to think of bucking, but had so much spirit, she did a piaff naturally as the other people’s horses bucked them silly in the winter. She/We won a Western Pleasure class bareback, dressed as an Amerind, with homemade “bridle” consisting of a loop thru her lower jaw, and a rein on only one side. She won the class, hands down, as the judge stood slack-jawed. He wondered if she could back in that contraption. Heck, she did two-tracking at all gaits in perfect form, in that contraption, because she loved performing and working together.
Hint….
Stop the self-defeating rhetoric. Just stop. Enough. Enjoy your total funk if you must. Just don’t paint everyone with it. It’s ugly, demeaning, and worthless drivil.
I take you hint and look forward to working together to vote a 3rd party candidate into the Prez seat. A PRESIDENT rather than a dictator (Obama or McCain). As a “compromise” I would then agree to vote for Democraps down-ticket…but I want a 3rd party candidate in the Prez seat.
I’ve only done that once before in my life, and that was because McGovern couldn’t even vet his choice of a VP properly. It made him look utterly incompetent right out of the gate! Up until that incident, I was against the war and had every intention of voting for McGovern. I had nothing against Eagleton, and had some sympathy for the fact that his problem was long in the past and I thought they went after him somewhat unfairly, but still, the whole thing should have been vetted much better and they should not have been caught with their pants down, so to speak. Even with all that happened after the election, with Nixon getting impeached and all, Spiro Agnew leaving office due to corruption, and Ford handing Nixon a pardon post impeachment, I’ve never regretted that vote. I still may just leave my presidential vote blank, but I am contemplating a vote for Nader.
Seriously, show me proof that everything I said isn’t the way Obama really is? He is FOR NAFTA now (and all that free-trade rubish that automatically accrues). He most assuredly will not present a lefty SCOTUS nominee, and will likely go for a so-called “moderate” like Kennedy, which means, automatically, that the overall court will swing rightward some more. The Dems already, and eagerly, voted a “sense of the senate” that Iran’s Republican Guard is a terrorist organization. They will fall for that silly nonsense every time.
Where in my rant was I actually “over the top” or really wrong? Obama doesn’t care for the 4th Amendment and the Constitution when it is in the way but he will change once in office and make only GREAT decisions? He ISN’T a corporate hack in spite of personally assuring Wallstreet that there will be no big changes? Most other tough votes Obama has skipped entirely.
– I’d rather have a Republican in actual name than a Republicrat. With the former you know exactly what s/he is and what s/he will do. –
That, and the rest of your comments, and the comments that urge you to vote DEM anyway — it’s fascinating to me that exactly the same argument plays out on the GOP side as against McCain and others (Snowe, Collins).
I don’t have a modern repair in mind, but the Constitution was designed to stifle the formation of political parties. Used to be, the winner in the general was Pres, and 2nd place finisher was VP.
My general point of view is that interest in and care about the federal government is in proportion to its influence. It has too much influence, so there is too much interest. I don’t see a graceful way of “going back.”
The political problem (as opposed to the Constitutional one) with Obama’s FISA vote is that it leaves his supporters in the untenable position of asserting that Obama still backs core Democratic issues when his FISA vote demonstrates that he is just as likely to sell these out as well.
Ironic, no? Obama would probably be quite happy to have McCain as his VP.. And we could all just focus on the important stuff.. decent congressional candidates.
I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone here for providing a base of sanity after the FISA vote. I just came from a thread at dkos that was very depressing. I had to come back here to keep from crying.
Someone who posted a diary there actually said the following (and two people recommended their comment):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..877/549338
That’s funny! When I had a horse, the only time I landed on the ground unintentionally, it wasn’t my horse’s fault, it was my own. She was a very good girl, always trying to please. We were doing some cutting training, and I wasn’t that great of a rider, so her running got away from me and I inadvertently blurted out “Whoa!” She took me at my word and stopped on a dime, but inertia took me over her head. I landed on my chest followed by slightly skewed hips that took months of physical therapy to make right. Shortly thereafter we discovered that my horse’s two front legs were not right and hadn’t been for quite some time. She could still survive and be ridden, but she could not do cutting or a lot of other types of running, just pleasure riding, and that suited me fine.
Then it sound like we have a consensus building between the two parties that a 3rd party is the best option (that or not voting).
I’m all in for that! They can all vote for Barr and I will vote for McKinney (or Nader). The other disaffected detritus of the Dems can make their decision. Either of the three (nader, barr, mckinney) would be better than Obama of McCain.
jim:
financial times:
congress:
gareth porter:
jim:
me:
jim:
me:
jim:
me:
jim – i’m not saying you shouldn’t vote for obama. but your accusations against those of us who don’t plan to vote for obama are both baseless and inflammatory.
Your eyes see relative possibilities weighted differently than mine do.
You show ME proof. You got nuttin of substance. That’s one of the big gambles trying to gauge the worth of a candidate with a short performance history in office.
Over-the-top? Start with unwarranted charges based only on suspicion and surmising, pulling potential occurrences out of thin air.
Note the use of “loaded” labels: silly nonsense, “dictator”, “der Fuhrer” FGSakes!?!???!
I’m done with this for today. We will have to agree to disagree on style and substance, or, not… I’ve got other pressing bidness. Tomorrow is another day. We all need to heal. For me, that’s not possible at least until dumbya&faceshooter are gone from OUR bigwhitehouse.
There’s too much hate in the world already, and jr.s stoked the fires somethin’ fierce. I’ll do what I can to help mend everything I can find in the time I have left on this fragile planet. I will mourn the horrendous loss of opportunities that existed just a few short years ago. I will try not to add to the mess, any more than absolutely necessary, & I will not stop speaking up. Suffice to say, our congresscritters know where we are, and they are not allowed to forget.
I got a call from some Obama campaign element yesterday. I told them I was over him, he needed to stand up for FISA.
I am hoping some of this will get back to the campaign. We’ll see.
We think the “issue” may be a poorly-fitting saddle. It USED to fit one (the one I usually ride) just fine but perhaps not so much as she has gotten older.
Bareback, they tend to be much less prone to “antics”, which adds support to the hypothesis.
By the way, my horses are all in agreement: Vote NO on Obama.
– And we could all just focus on the important stuff.. decent congressional candidates. –
And even on that front, the Constitution was designed with a weak federal government in mind. You’d get to vote for a federal rep, but your state senators were to be chosen by the state legislature, not by popular vote.
Thank you Hugh. I realize. We are not ANY of us in a happy position right now. I know you will continue your wonderful work. I will continue in my own little corner of the universe.
maybe this bit from glenn greenwald, in his comments saturday will help:
the last thing i read from glenn is that he advocates voting for obama, but at least he has a reason that stands up – although i don’t agree with him.
See selise’s post above.
Obama was agin NAFTA before he (recently) became for it.
Obama was FOR talking to Iran until he decided he wants to continue the belligerent (spoiled brat because the Iranians kicked out OUR choice of THEIR dictator) nonsense of Bush.
Obama was agin Iraq until he is now reconsidering Iraq.
Obama kisses AIPAC/Likud ass.
Obama votes FOR FISA bill and violates his pledge to filibuster any bill with immunity in it. Now, Feingold goes with his tail tucked between his legs to Rachel Maddow and says “If you want to fix FISA, vote for Obama.” ???!!! But Obama voted FOR it and now you expect, as President with the new special spying powers on his mere whim, he is going to push to gut the very same law he supports? HAH!
Feingold is taking a beating, by the way, for having said this clear, unadulterated nonsense at Rawstory (and so is obama…it is EVERYWHERE and, with luck, will continue and grow so that Obama’s chances become close to zero of getting the prize he so desperately seeks).
Besides the fact that DKos REALLY bogs down my browser because of the poor javacrap design, I rarely visit it anymore. The primaries turned it into a Hillary-vs-Obama hellhole…and now it is an Obama worshiping hellhole.
NOTHING Obama does makes his shit stink to the DKossacks, so it seems.
I did.
I stand by what I’ve said above.
Now I’m going to go out in the hot sun and
pick berriesget royally scratched from head to toe by berry prickers.Take care. I think we’re on the same side. Just doesn’t feel like it, does it. Ah, democracy. How we miss ye.
There was a point on June 4, I think, when he had sewn up the nomination and was riding high. The election was essentially his to lose.
There hasn’t been a lot of talk about to what degree the fact that he is black will secretly cause people in the voting booth to not vote for him. Frankly I thought he could overcome that by standing tall and showing everyone he actually stood for something. Even the woman who cuts my hair and is a very low information voter who doesn’t want to think she is prejudiced admitted to me that she was uncomfortable with her reluctance to vote for him.
So now, rather than really stand tall and show everyone a new direction for the country to go in, he shows us that “compromise” is who and what he is all about, even if his idea of compromise really is capitulation.
And he’s cut off the netroots organizing to get behind him when he screws up. He wants to run everything including every tiny piece of his message.
How’s that working for him/us right now.
I’m thinking the election which was his to lose, he just might lose through no fault of ours.
It’s all on his head.
Thanks for the Greenwald comment. I feel Glenn’s pain. It’s so disconcerting to see so many mindless followers of Obama. They’re just as scary as the blind Bush supporters because they are so easy to manipulate.
Here’s my comment to that person at dkos. Unlike the blind Obama follower I didn’t even get 2 people to vote for my comment. lol
I just clicked on your link and found this in Greenwald’s comment. Boy is he right about this.
i should have included more of glenn’s comment because he makes clear that it is a minority of dkos commenters he is describing.
my bold.
don’t forget dkos includes commenters like pmorlan (and yours truly *g*)
well, if you would give a link, i could at least make sure you get one “recommend” *g*
p.s. i owe you a drink – (so long as it’s not a coke!)
Perhaps. The problem (from my perspective) is the Obama posts are always the top-rated posts, usually written by those who defend his every act, AND add to that the issue I have reading the site anymore with how slow it is on my browser. I can’t sit there and read more than a few posts (usually the noisy Obamazombies) which makes it APPEAR that there are a lot of them.
That minority is like the religious right: very loud, very noisy, so they look bigger than they really are.
BINGO!
‘Bout time someone came up with that thought. I’ve been twiddling fingers and sweating bullets for weeks over this.
Theory of the Day from UnreliableSource/Adie: The power of the netroots spooked Obama. Strangely enough, a smart, well-educated, strong candidate wants to run his own show, and the netroots essentially were trying to force him to follow every little nuance the net powers wanted.
Without that perceived threat to his independence, I’m not so sure Barack would have bucked and run off [in protest? negative reaction to being pressured? to PROVE he is a leader, not a follower/sock puppet?]
Put that in yer pipe & smoke it.
Makes just as much sense to me as a whole lotta stuff people upthread have come up with. Trash me if you will, but I “felt” this coming, weeks ago, and have been stewing about it but reluctant to tip the balance by saying anything in public.
This occurrence reminds me of the Ned Lamont/Liarman mess, and my misgivings over the “Kiss” float. Was that over the top. Did it tip that delicate balance of trust and actual voting?, political pressure brought to bear by some rather ham-handed congressional leaders we all know?, etc.
Face it. MANY in Congress are afraid of the netroots’ power. Everything from the video capabilities to the organizing potential & fund-raising power. It’s all very new, huge, and threatening to their tradional ways of operating.
Some critters have adapted well, some not so much, some showing blatant, mindless hostility.
All bets are off until the old system adapts to the new system. imo
If folks would like another place to send their $$$ that’s no longer going to Obama, Russ Feingold has a Progressive Patriots Fund that supports candidates and funds on-the-ground workers.
Link is: http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/
That sounds dandy. Thanks for the reminder and link! ;->
Going out on a limb here…I’ve said before we screwed up by not getting Edwards through the primary. As the op-ed (linked in one of the comments)
in the NYTimes said, Obama kept saying he was all about compromise and no one listened. For heaven’s sake, Obama looked up to Mr Compromise Lieberman – why didn’t that give everyone pause? Compromise can be good – but not when you do it just for the sake of compromise. Compromise should not be another word for lack of backbone, as portrayed in the FISA vote.
There’s been a conspiracy rumor out there for some time and I’ve always pooh-poohed it. But now I wonder…with Obama’s lunge to the middle (where he always lived before his primary campaign), and particularly having picked up ex-Clinton-staffers…was Obama brought in by the Clinton people to derail Edwards and then Obama took off, winning, much to the dismay of the Clinton camp? Conspiracies are always fun to think about, at least. God knows I need something other than FISA to think about.
This era is sooo deja vu for me. During Viet Nam we were practically braining the Dems with frying pans to get them to stop being such a spineless group. We really do need another party – a Civil Liberties Party or a Progressive Party…those sound good to me.
Having spent lots of time and money on the Lamont campaign, Ned would have been nowhere without the nets and the Kiss float was brilliant. Ned lost because the dem establishment including Obama refused to back the democratic candidate in the election. Joe LOST the primary. Joe got the votes of most of the indies, most of the rethugs and enough dems—thanks to the total lack of support of the dems. Dodd and Kerry were the only ones I remember who even showed up IIRC. Obama came to town for an event for Joe AFTER he lost the primary. Clinton “loaned” one of her staff to Ned after he won. Getting a spy into the inner circle of the Lamont campaign helped a lot too.
Boxer, Schumer, Obama, Reid, the lot of them can kiss my *ss.
No, not feeling too good about any of them today other than Dodd and Feingold.
Edwards never had a chance. The corporations who own the media declared that it would be either Obama or Clinton from the start. They knew they would be safe. They undid Edwards with a stupid hair cut story like they undid Dean with a faux scream. They also made the primary more of a horse race than it had to be because it sold newspapers. They are trying to make a tight race between Obama and McSame now for the same reason.
Edwards never had a chance. He knew it. We knew it.
I agree with you, and am familiar with many of the details re: that campaign. I’m not saying the Kiss float backfired. I was too far from the scene to tell anyway. The only point of bringing it up was, as you say, the party bigwigs waded in and had the absolute gall to support Liarman after Lamont WON. wtf?! WHY would they do that? Fear is something that occurred to me.
incumbent protection racket. period.
yep.
Agree, and I also think Unions either knew something they were not saying.. or failed us all miserably by not backing Kucinich or Edwards in particular.
i support russ’s fund and also ACLU…. signed ACLU email already… i’m late to lake today so catching up
I signed up both my wife and myself. The thing that really just kills me is that the vote wasn’t even close! You would think with such an important issue at stake that there would have been at least a few more “nay” votes.
Jane way up top with some discussion on the Defiant FISA Dozen
I’m not worried about getting a vote for my comment (I was just joking around that the dufus got 2 votes and I got zero) but I sure do wish more people would set that person straight.
Why do you owe me a drink? Did I do something good that I don’t know about? I’ll take a rum and coke. lol
Reminds me of this joke
just a joke for when two people say the same (or close to the same) thing at almost the same time. whoever was first is supposed to get a drink from the slacker (that would be me). but no coke - coke is the drink of the death squads.
Signed on.
You can also sign on through the ACLU website directly at:
https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Are_you_angry&s_s=aclu_FISA0708__web
“What are you going to do, vote for McCain?” Obama taunts. Of course, he knows you aren’t going to.
Obama teaches Constitutional law. Yet, in his first test as “The Candidate,” he does not have the courage or integrity to stand up for the Constitution. What more do you need to know? Obama stated that he would vote against and filibuster any law that contained telecom immunity. Yet, he cowered and caved. Even his ‘rationalizations” were unintelligible and full of misinformation. Obama left no doubt to anyone that when Bush says “BOO!”, he will run as fast as he can from his principles.
Simply put, Obama is basically a coward. It is clear that Obama is going to continue to take positions that are diametrically opposed to the progressives who fuel his campaign in order to demonstrate to the Main Stream Media that he is a “Serious” person who is not beholden to the “radical, fringe left.” FISA is only the first of many betrayals to come, I am afraid.
Send your Obama dollars to http://www.ActBlue.com , http://www.EFF.org, http://www.aclu.org and support true progressives.
Go with Blue America rather than Act Blue. Blue america won’t support Blue Dogs like Act Blue will.
$148×12 months = 1776
$149×12 months = 1788 (year the Constitution was ratified)
I signed up to be a $149/mo Guardian of Liberty, tithing my income for the ACLU. If you believe in something strongly enough, you should logically only give to one charity, instead of dispersing smaller, irregular payments to all the causes you support and having them waste money trying to hit you up for further donations. For me, the ACLU best represents what I believe in.