When the great Obama/Hillary war was still engaged, I could never figure out why so many were sure that Obama was the progressive of the two. I couldn’t see a dime’s worth of difference between em…still can’t.

And thanks a lot for caving on FISA.

Not

With his FISA vote he has proven that he is just another political hack in the pocket of the big corporations. I could see this coming. Progressive? BS.

He sure changed his tune after Clinton suspended her campaign and he took on those new campaign people who’d been working for her.
I don’t think that’s a coincidence, but I don’t know whether it’s his true views coming out or whether it’s their whispering bad advice in his ear.

Fortunately I haven’t given his campaign much money; I’ll let them keep it, and donate elsewhere, where it will be put to better use.

Let him get into the white house. Just like W talked “compassionate conserv” and “moderate” and then governed from the right right right wing, Obama will move left the day after inauguration. First we need to get him IN. Then we can get him moving leftward in a hurry.

Can Obama opt back in for Public Financing? He’s gonna need it…! I think the net roots funding has shriveled up and died…!

Yessiree, I’m pissed. voting for yes… $, mmm, prob. not.

Did you check the vote today, pal.

Head on over to CheetoLand where yo’all belong.

Believer.

Hahahahahaaaaaaaa!

‘It’s Hillary’s Fault!’

Man, that Kool-Aid be some powerful mind-bending stuff.

Great post as usual Ian Welsh. During the primary, Obama and his handlers played the “fauxgressive bloggosphere” like a violin virtuoso. Now we can sit back and watch as these same bloggers who foamed at the mouth over Clinton’s “triangulation” spin the justification for his FISA vote. And believe me they will.

Nope.

No me.

Not buyin’ no pig-in-a-poke.

My momma would never forgive me.

I know you’re pissed, as I am, but, please refrain from personal attacks on Pups! Mahalo Nui Loa!

Is there any consumer fraud involved with him saying he would fight to eliminate telco immunity, then reverses?

Can you get our money back?

Obama: Chicago machine tool wrapped in a $2,000 suit.

Paid for, of course, by the megacorps.

All hail our corporate masters and the Chicago machine who fluff for them!

Welcome to the United States of Corporatism (Italian style).

Gotta work three jobs to keep your “health care”…uh…health “insurance”…uh…premiums?

Don’t worry.

Work liberates.

Happy Corporate Sovereignty Day.

All hail Barry The Privacy Slayer! He serves his masters well.

His work has made him free: to sell us out and overthrow the Republic.

Such a deal.

Such audacity.

Such a willing tool for corporate fascism.

Just blogged on My.BarackObama.com that I’d not be giving any more money to his campaign, will be going to Accountability PAC instead.

I’m in for $50 on August 8. That’s what I had budgeted for Obama pre convention. He ain’t getting it. I don’t see a path for him to reclaim it either.

Tweety’s panel on Hardball is hammering Obama’s sellout, and, raising the fact that the ‘Left’ is pissed…! Nice to see it being aired!

He sure changed his tune after Clinton suspended her campaign and he took on those new campaign people who’d been working for her.

And how well did they do for her? Did they win the nomination for her? That’s what I can’t handle.

Both candidates attack Iran for testing longer range missles today…

So Israel and the US are threatening em daily and they aren’t supposed to be able to defend themselves? Strange rules. Just roll over and show us yer belly!

Neither Clinton nor Obama were in my top three choices.
Now, who do you really intend to vote for again? Isn’t it that guy that’s older than dirt?

ian - great, great post. exactly right wrt obama.

just one small nit wrt clinton - i don’t think she had a universal health care plan. maybe an attempt at a universal health insurance plan?

but right on re obama. i might have bought his lies 30 years ago. but not today.

Yes. This was all Hillary’s fault. That horrible woman!

Please. You cannot be serious…

I never thought Obama was a liberal. I knew he was shaky on reproductive issues. His hawk talk about Iran was disturbing.

But I did believe him when he said he’d fight this FISA legislation.

Ah, well. Whatever happens to his support on the left is all on him. I don’t want to hear any crap about how “the DFHs abandoned Obama, wah wah! It’s their fault he lost to McCain, waaaaaah.”

Dude has to earn my support. You don’t get my support just ‘cuz the other guy sucks rocks. Does not work that way anymore. Apparently Obama didn’t get that memo.

Fuck you Obama, and the Horse You Rode in On.

4th Amendment that.

We could look at this…stir the pot…
Cynthia McKinney 08 Green Party.
http://www.runcynthiarun.org/

It’ll be fun to watch all the racists realize that Obama and the Democrats voted to spy on them.

I should have been clear. My comment at 21 is referring to the comment above, #4, re Hillary being at fault.

(P.S.: Hillary voted against this legislation, Mr. Wizard.)

There were too many of us who knew long before Bush was elected that “compassionate conservatism” was a tip o the hat to huge a capital structural realignment but the Dems pre election discourse didn’t go far enough to let us break it down. Same thing right now. Its Obaminable for him to be talking the same trash. But its a clue.

Lot’s of clues out there with too many red flags to give Obama a pass through Go without us being first loyal to guess what, our values. Government by the people, eh?

Electoral College, much?

I live in CA, where McCain’s campaign has one paid staffer for over thirty million people. McCain’s campaign wrote off my state.

CA will vote blue in the Electoral College even if 50,000 of us write in Glenda The Good Witch.

Glenda’s got my vote.

At least she’s not wearing $2,000 lobbyist suits and whoring for the megacorps.

Unlike Barry The Privacy Slayer, Defender of The Corporate Faith.

IWPOHIHWOF.

Barry, “you think you’re God’s gift, you’re a liar“

Hillary voted against this legislation, Mr. Wizard

are you saying you know that would have been her vote if she had won the nomination instead of obama? i don’t ever remember her fighting against this travesty.

“Diet Obama” hell — he’s the new Zima!

I want second party.

And a real election.

The irony: August 8, 1974 is when Nixon resigned for illegal wiretapping.

Love the song!

Should’ve been Hillary’s campaign anthem.

Fits perfectly.

Here we go again. In 2004 Jane convinced me to vote anyway, even though I was discouraged to the point of just staying home for the first time in 30 years. Here we are, 4 years later, after winning control of congress, and it’s just more of the same old yuck.

I disagreed with Obama’s stance on NCLB and public education, as well his approach to healthcare. Since he has become a moral scold towards the African American community (scolding, without offering any workable solutions is so Republican, don’t you think?), supporting faith-based nonsense that violates the 1st amendment, voting today against the 4th amendment, showing his true colors in regard to abortion and capital punishment, and his support of a Blue Dog candidate over a progressive candidate, I have lost all enthusiasm and interest in supporting his race for the White House.

I have always, through my union, manned the GOTV phones, knocked on doors, donated money to candidates, etc. This year, no. I just don’t see the point. Yes, he may appoint a Supreme Court justice or two, but who will he nominate? Will it be someone center-right to appear bipartisan? How is that better than McCain nominating far right-wingers, when chances are that Obama’s center-right nominees will frequently side with the conservatives anyway? As far as cleaning up the colossal mess BushCo will leave behind, I don’t see Obama doing much about that either, based upon what I am learning about him every day.

I don’t want to be cynical or jaded and I don’t want to just drop out of the political process altogether but after all these years of failing to get a single progressive candidate in a position where they can actually bring about change, I’ve just about had it. The Republicans are a known quantity, as far as political enemies go, but the Democrats have proven to me, over the last 2 decades, that there is no point in hoping for progressive policies from that side — they do more to defeat progressive politics than Gingrich, DeLay, Lott, or Cheney could ever hope for. Hell, today’s Democrats, with the exception of Dodd, Feingold, and Kennedy, (and a few others on most occasions) make Nixon look progressive!

Maybe for Jane and the rest of you younger folks, there will come a time when you will elect more and better Democrats and see America return to a progressive agenda. I don’t see it happening in my lifetime and Obama and our congress critters are the biggest argument for that position. I hope I’m wrong.

but if you do that, your vote will never be counted. it won’t even show up as a protest vote.

i’m with you, in that i plan to vote against obama, but i want my vote to be counted. that is why i’m thinking third party. i know here in MA it’s been very hard to have votes for write in candidates counted (even when part of campaign).

…. do you have any thinking to share on why you aren’t considering third party as a protest vote?

intentional irony.

August 8th was deliberately chosen for precisely that reason. It’s not so much irony as a metaphorical and financial 2×4 across the forehead.

I seriously think we need to consider organizing a write-in campaign. I think we could do it.

~~and replying to Selise:

Ahhh…I see…

I think it’s pretty clear what I’m saying.

“Hillary voted against this legislation.”

I’m not Madame Psychic. I have no idea how she might have voted in Other Worlds. But in this one, where it actually counts, she voted against it. So blaming her people for Obama’s vote is rather silly, don’t you think?

Anyone who wants to debate What Might Have Happened If Things Were Different, carry on. But that seems rather silly, too.

We said protect our 4th Amendment. He said nope.
We said stop the constant erosion of Roe v. Wade. He said nope.
We said uphold the separation of church and state. He said nope.

The Audacity of Nope.

Hey, CT, Obama doesn’t need us anymore, he’s got the big bucks coming in now:

NYT: Obama Making Headway With Big-Money Donors, Too
The New York Times reports that Barack Obama’s fundraising prowess is expanding beyond his small-donor base now that he’s won the nomination. The campaign took in $5 million at a Hollywood fundraiser ten days ago, and last night the candidate was in Atlanta for a fundraiser that carried a minimum $2,300 ticket price.

If you’re serious, the first step is to realize you’re talking about not “a” write-in campaign, but fifty-one write-in campaigns. Oh, and each of them is governed by a different set of rules as to how write-in votes get made and counted.

Good luck with that.

Nope!

They are delighted to put Obama in the “just another politician” box with McCain, thus depressing excitement and turnout among the Democratic base.

Lick our wounds, yes. Express our disappointment, sure. Post our complaints at MyBo.com, right. But, folks, do we really want John McCain’s itchy finger on the nuclear trigger? Do we really want McCain appointees anywhere in the federal judiciary, let alone SCOTUS?

I don’t.

Let’s get over this, please. We don’t have a progressive nominee. Big surprise. There was never a possibility of a progressive nominee. Time to get back to work. It never ends.

So what is the point of the post? Should we just vote for Nader because we are disappointed?

that’ll convince me.

I am tired as well. But what is the alternative? A pox on all their houses.

The poster and those who applaud him are exactly the sort who elected George Bush in 2000.

Go ahead, do it again.

[Mod Note; Comment edited by moderator. Please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]

Time to get back to work. It never ends.

+1, I’m with Teddy here.

the problem is that the fix was in and we can tell nothing from votes against cloture. i’ll just quote hugh from earlier today:

We can definitely tell who some of the bad guys are in this because they will vote no on the amendments but yes on passage of the bill. But we can’t say who the good guys are, and indeed there may not be any, because the fix is in on all of this, these are cosmetic votes, so anyone voting for the amendments and against passage of the bill knows that in fact the amendments will fail and the bill will pass. I should point out as well that no Senator objected to the Unanimous Consent agreement, none invoked any of the procedural delays at their disposal, Harry Reid did not refuse to schedule these votes, Obama did not lead, nor did Hillary Clinton.

yeah, date for the Accountability Money Bomb was chosen with that in mind.

In all honesty, selise, I don’t see a credible 3rd party candidate. Nader’s behavior re the Greens was deeply undemocratic, and I do not trust him in electoral politics.

I wish the US had a progressive 3rd party that chose all candidates via transparent voting processes. Til then, here in CA Glenda has my Prez vote…..

Speaking of bitter irony, McInsane criticized Obama’s flip-flop on FISA, while failing to even cast a vote… again!!! Nice to see the rousing welcome Teddy received on the floor of the Senate!

Not gonna get over it, nope. No can do.

The thing is, Obama has said (literally and figuratively,I believe) that he is not the same old, same old. He has said, “believe in me.”

Well, the guy lied. There is really no getting around that. He frickin’ lied. He said he would oppose this. Now, you can think, “Oh, he changed his mind. That’s not a lie.” But when asked to explain why he changed, he hemmed and hawed and said lots of stuff that is simply. Not. True. Or, what we in the real world call “lies.”

Whether I vote for him or not, this is not something I am going to “get over.” Maybe the GOP doesn’t hold its politicians to any standards. But I do. A lot of us do.

And, you know, we should. We should.

You do not build the infrastructure for change by voting the status quo. If Barry becomes POTUS that will be the end of the progressive movement for a generation. His failed Presidency, and it will be a failure, will be used by the ReThugs for decades.

The idea that McSame is that much worse than Barry is a fallacy.

McSame it the enemy. Better the enemy I know in front of me than the ‘friend’ I thought I had behind me.

Stabbing me in the back.

This should be obvious to anyone by now but I note it is now the last of the many, many arguments and reasons we’ve been given to vote for Barry.

Funny….

You don’t hear all that much about ‘change’ anymore do ya.

I remember, back in the Ciro Rodriguez days.

But we’re still here, fighting.

As Leonard Coehn sang, hopefully prophetically, “democracy is coming. . . to the U. S. A.”

Well said, I was willing to support Obama and even defended him because although I did not see him as a progressive I wished to unite the party behind him once it became clear (back in March) that he was going to be the nominee. But I reject his casual selling out of the Constitution, attacking his base, and embracing domestic spying enshrined in the current FISA bill. As I said a while ago, I have withdrawn my support of him. Each person must make their own choice but Obama has no intention of supporting us or our values because so many of us say that we will vote for him no matter what. I disagree. A candidate has to earn my vote, and he doesn’t even come close.

Hmmm, so who is it that really needs the immunity???

Washington—July 8, 2008—TomFlocco.com—’According to Fox News, “virtually all records and billing in the U.S. are done for the telephone companies by Amdocs Ltd., an Israeli-based private telecommunication company, contracting with the 25 biggest phone companies in America, and more worldwide,” said Fox chief political correspondent Carl Cameron in a four-part series—the video and transcript content of which were removed from Fox’s website after both were preserved by internet sources.

‘A congressional contract permitted Israel’s Foxcom/Mobile Access to recently install cell-phone systems in the U.S. Capitol building—yet House members have not explained why they are placing their own communications at risk of espionage, given the astonishing evidence.’

http://tomflocco.com/fs/HouseH.....Spying.htm

I’m with Teddy - too much is at stake.

I’m voting for Obama (first time in my life - 8th presidential election - I’m voting for a major party candidate in the general election).

I’m doing GoTV for Obama.

I’m giving money to Accountability PAC. And maybe Obama will convince me to donate to him again. Time will tell, and right now it looks like my money should go for organizations that support civil rights and don’t just talk about it.

thanks kirk.

i wasn’t thinking so much about voting for a third party as using a third party to register my protest. hell, i’d even consider voting for barr (so long as i know he has no chance of winning). well, there’s time to figure that one out - but i do think i want my protest vote counted. just not sure where yet.

Actually, the last section of the post would suggest you’ve missed the point.

I don’t read Ian to be saying “Let’s all run away from Obama” — he’s suggesting that maybe Obama is being a bit shortsighted in his political positioning.

Be for the 4th amendment. Be for abortion rights. And be for universal health are. Don’t just say you’re progressive one day, then the next day say “except…”

No more sweet nothings.

Real commitment will get you eight years, not just one day.

My quibble with Ian’s post is that instead of addressing it to Obama, perhaps he should have addressed it David Axelrod.

Dems and America have been chumped by the champion of hope. Change you can believe in? Right! He’s just talking about all the change he’ll be able to put in his pocket.

Audacity of hope indeed. Never too soon to embed cynicism in our youth.

Remembering JFK proudly waving his ACLU membership card.

I’ll vote for Obama- without enthusiasm- but no money.

Hi Priscilla- long time no see.

Another fear I have is that Obama’s “plan” or whatever, is really going to depress voting and GOTV for good down ticket Dems. No “Obama Tide” momentum.

I think Obama already has the vote. I just don’t see McCain getting it. So now is the time for pre-game on impeachment. Obama will overreach.

I introduce into the record the Mahablog post on late-term abortions, explaining why you will almost never see one because of mental distress. Ms. O’Brien has actually been pregnant as opposed to your humble poster. But the post also explains why Roe does not mean that “pro-choice” means any third-trimester abortion for any reason.

The humble poster who has never been pregnant writes: There is a difference between a mental-health danger to a woman’s life and a generalized mental health problem. Melissa at Open Left properly pointed out that Roe is becoming more and more of an abstract right because abortion is becoming less accessible in more places. Obama has called Breyer and Ginsburg “sensible” in another interview, which appeared on Volokh somewhere. So if we get judges like Breyer, Ginsburg, and Souter who also came in for some praise in that interview, we will get judges who support Roe: it is part of the philosophical package. What needs more scrutiny is what sort of restriction on abortion the individual judges would consider appropriate. That is the scope of how the federal government preserves the right to an abortion with state governments eager to narrow it as much as possible.

Killjoy.

Great post Ian, couldn’t say it any better bbluhring.

Here’s my theory, and it’s a wild-ass-guess in the extreme: Since his statement that he’d filibuster any bill that contained immunity, Obama has become his party’s presumptive nominee and, as such, has begun getting enriched, beefed-up national security briefings — Dick Cheney’s dark fantasies, if you will. These are terrifying, of course, and entirely stovepiped like all Dick Cheney “intelligence.” But Obama can’t know that, and doesn’t have the Intelligence Committee experience to tell the difference.

With long-time Intel Committee folks like Feinstein telling him that Feingold’s objections are all about his ego and not about the “program,” Obama has chosen to accept the new briefings he’s received. What choice does he have, in the face of dire warnings of apocalyptic attacks “on the Homeland” between now and Election Day? You know that’s what they are briefing him. You just know it.

This may actually bode well for the first months of his Administration, when he’s likely to be tested by a new version of “Bin Laden Determined To Attack in US.” He may just pay attention, to our nation’s benefit. But I bet his change of heart on this isn’t triangulating against the base and it isn’t moving toward the center and it isn’t writing off the left — it’s an honest response to a terrifying Cheney Intel Special for Presidential Candidates.

Again, just my WAG.

But we do know what Hillary’s vote was and Obama’s wasn’t.
That’s where the pedal hits the metal, on the vote.

As was with the Cheney’s energy bill and renewing the Patriot
Act. Love her or hate her, Hillary’s votes hold more water.

There may be what we think we know about Hillary, then the knowable
unknowns and of course the unknowable unknowables but there’s
in fact a far better record of knowables on Hillary Clinton -
not her husbands knowables included - that are agreeable than
there are for Obama’s incredible list of unknowables and his
advisors lack of ability to keep us lucid and knowledgable about
anything besides winning winning winning. Some market theory
they’ve got going.

I’m goinig to put a bumpersticker on my car. This one.

Ah, I see by the odd “In response to @ 1″ message that the comment to which I replied @59 has addressed by the mods.

Consider this a little note, then, that my comment @59 is NOT a reply to rwcole’s comment at the very top of the thread.

I’ll vote for Obama- without enthusiasm- but no money.

I will not vote for Obama. As the FISA vote showed today, even on a core Constitutional issue, there is no difference between Republican and Republican-lite.

Sorry about that.

*g*

I’ve seen some serious political folks with some serious money behind them look down that road before, shake their heads, and conclude that it’s a very steep hill to climb.

But Obama can’t know that,

you could figure it out. and he should be able to too. if he can’t, then i don’t want his finger by the nuclear trigger either.

Yes, Hugh, the lines have become blurred between who is repub and dem.

The audacity of nope. I’m so glad I didn’t give money.

All due respect, rwc, but you’ve made it clear you never give money in primaries. Now you proudly say you won’t give money in the general. My question is: do you ever actually give money?

Hey Valley Girl! I’ve been lurking for a while now — very busy work schedule. I feel very angry that Obama feels that he can count on my vote because I’ve never voted for a Republican for president before. Like many others here, I believe that my vote is the only bargaining power I have (outside of a few dollars to donate and my time on GOTV efforts). It must be earned to have any meaning. I survived Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, and now, Bush II. The arguments about the sky falling if McCain wins won’t sway me. If there was an actual Democratic majority in congress to hold whoever the next president will be accountable, then I’ll be satisfied. I guess the answer is to keep working to elect more and better democrats to congress after all. Sigh.

If that’s the case, he’ll really get squirrelly on Iraq after he goes over there and gets the full court press from Betrayus and Co.

Maybe. I think it much more likely that he did just out of sheer political calculation; just like Pelosi has done with impeachment. their own petty political fortunes are more important to them than the Constitution. That simple.

Again, just my WAG.

Every time someone we would like to support or have supported does something crass, craven, or stupid there is a tendency to make up defenses that have no evidence to support them whatsoever. My feeling is that it’s not our place to defend Obama’s vote. It’s his responsibility to explain it to us, and the explanations that he has offered so far have been vacuous spin.

How do these people think it’s good for their political fortune to sell out 70%+ Americans? How do they think it could be a good thing to sell out the constitution, our founding document an idea they took an oath to protect and defend?

i dunno, he’ probably just scared of all the muslim haters.

Yep- quite a bit last time around. I’ll give to the local congressional candidate if he’s in the running against Bilbray.

I could not have said it better. Thank you. I am old and more jaded by the moment. I think we need to start an AA for political junkies so we can acknowlege that we are “powerless against politicians”

I was thinking about you the other day, hadn’t seen ya around much. figured you must be busy.
How ya doin?

That’s the way I felt about Gore in 2000 - republican-lite. We have now seen how much damage a committed true rethug can do. Therefore, I’ll still vote for Obama, for the good of the country.

Oh, and I ended up voting for Gore, couldn’t quite bring myself to go green.

Sounds good to me! 12 steps to political freedom….

In case you think I’ve drunk the Obama-aide, I’ll remind you that I’ve made a list to justify supporting a primary challenge to the next Democratic president. Nobody gets off scot-free, and I have a comprehensive list of what I expect our next president to accomplish in the first term.

What are the unmet expectations you won’t forgive? What are the unrealized hopes and dreams you’re unwilling to forget? What meager accomplishments are you willing to let our President run on in 2012, unchallenged within our party for re-election?

What will get you to seek out someone to consider a challenge to the incumbent of our own party? What conditions must pertain in order for you to believe that the new President, in whom we invested so much energy, has failed us?

1. If US troops are still dying in the Middle East. This is absolute. If the new President hasn’t ended the occupation of Iraq, then I will support an intraparty challenger.

2. If the current health care mess still prevails. We need something better — in place and well underway. It also needs to have a clear path to universal single-payer health care, or I will find someone to challenge the incumbent.

3. If the Unitary Executive still exists. I expect the next Democratic President to immediately restore the rule of law throughout the Executive Branch. I also expect clear actions that show respect for checks and balances. Absent a return to tripartite government, I will back a challenger.

4. If our current energy and environmental situation is unchanged. This is a rather sweeping requirement, as it should be. I expect the posture of our Federal government to morph into something quite yet unseen, with huge tax incentives for green investment, the removal of tax breaks for carbon companies, and a Manhattan Project for energy independence. I want us to respect Mother Gaia in all we do. If the current President hasn’t gotten any of that off the ground, I will support another’s candidacy in our party’s presidential primary.

5. If Bush Era lawbreakers, philosophers, and profiteers roam free. Yup, I want some amazing televised show trials of attorneys who politicized the justice department, authorized torture, and invented the Fourth Branch. I want the corporate executives who provided dirty food and water to our troops, built Iraqi jails that leaked human waste, and repainted Baghdad airport trucks and resold them to our country prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned. I want those who twisted intelligence and manipulated our media exposed and impeached. I want this question to ring loud throughout the land: “Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Federalist Society?” Without these cathartic events, any attempt at a “bygones” Presidency will draw a challenger, and I will support that challenger.

6. If the War on Terror is still being waged. I want Osama bin Laden captured and put on trial for his crimes, but I also want Gitmo closed. Let’s use the principles handed to us by our Founders to renew Americans’ belief in our constitutional compact. Indict, try, convict, imprison. If America is still living our false BushCo paradigm of fear, I will see the next President on the campaign trail.

7. If the Federal Government still protects corporations from citizens, instead of the other way round. I want a Labor Department that helps working people, not capital. I want a State Department that conducts diplomacy, not gives orders. I want an FDA that protects consumers of food and drugs, not their producers. I want an Agriculture Department that promotes and supports sustainable farming, not corporate greed. In short, I want a government of, for, and by the people. Anything less than measurable progress is unacceptable, and will find me actively recruiting a challenger.

8. If campaigns for federal office are still privately funded. I expect the next President to propose and enact an exclusive system of full public financing for election to all federal offices. Compromises in this arena will make me look elsewhere within our party for a presidential candidate in 2012.

9. If FDR’s words have not been returned to a rightful place in our national discourse. Sure, it will be great to hear the new President orate on issues new to our world since the New Deal. But I also expect our next President to engage fully in the Class War that’s been waged on the non-upper classes since the end of the 1970s.

Has anyone seen wobblybits? I haven’t seen her in a long time. One day she misunderstood me and thought I was saying she was a Hillary hater, then someone came in to talk about work and I couldn’t respond.

I hope all this stuff about Obama didn’t drive her away.

I wonder if Barack Obama would be different today if Hillary Clinton wasn’t up his butt?

you may be right, and i’m not going to try to convince you otherwise…. but to explain my own position - there is one thing that is quite different this year that wasn’t the case in 2000: the dems hold the majority in congress.

I’m disappointed at his vote but not surprised. The bill passed by about a 50-vote margin. Obama realized it didn’t stand a chance, and maybe thought if he voted Yea, it would help offset McCain’s assertions that he’s “soft on terror” or whatever.

It’s like most of those times that Lieberman votes for nonsense stuff with the Dems, but sides with the Republicans on important stuff. If Obama was a swing vote in a 48-47 situation and he still voted Yea, then we’d all be justified in screaming bloody murder. But now, it’s not that big a deal.

Obama or McCain is the real issue. You don’t have to love Obama, or even LIKE him very much, but you DO have to vote for him. Supreme Court, get it?

I know I would be.

I believe she was off to a vacation in Brazil for a few weeks.

good luck with that

Yes, and let’s not forget that Hillary would be different if she hadn’t had the bad fortune to marry Bill.

Ultimately everything is Bill Clinton’s fault. Just ask Joe DiGenova.

Gee, Teddy, you better schedule one of Obama’s platform house parties quick.

I’d say that it’s the ABSENCE of a competitior in the primary that has led Obama to move to the center.

Cool! Thanks.

but you DO have to vote for him

no bob. i don’t.

Right. It is all Clinton’s fault. [edited to remove personal comment] You hitched your wagon to a pathetic two faced chump; it is on Obama’s back not Clinton’s or anyone else’s. Get a clue.

Completely OT, but does anyone know if this is legit?
‘Officials with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have informed Bernanke
about a plan that would have been unheard-of in the past: a general examination
of the US financial system. The IMF’s board of directors has ruled that a
so-called Financial Sector Assessment Program (FSAP) is to be carried out in the
United States. It is nothing less than an X-ray of the entire US financial
system.’
‘For seven years, US President George W. Bush refused to allow the IMF to conduct
its assessment. Even now, he has only given the IMF board his consent under one
important condition. The review can begin in Bush’s last year in office, but it
may not be completed until he has left the White House.’
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/.....sage/42223

LOL Me too. ;-)

Hillary changed her vote. Awwwwww, how nice Pelosi to bring FISA up again to set Obama up.

Hi, Bob! Thank you. How’s the sailing this summer?

Of course you don’t. John McCain will make a great president. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

Sorry, but the reality is, we’re fucked if McCain gets in. I’m sorry Hillary is out, but she is. It’s time to face facts.

I was a Federal union officer at the time and the party that has the White House controls the entire workplace for Feds. It got a lot worse, and, of course, terrible for Fed unions, after Bush took over. There are a lot of other issues that a rethug can screw up, just by not enforcing laws a la Bush - environment, health, etc.

I wanted fucking Kucinich but if I remember correctly the PROGRESSIVES & LIBERALS kept saying, “His ears are funny looking! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! He’s not tall enough to be president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t vote for him!!!!!!” and then I would say, “But he stands for everything you stand for!”, and the PROGRESSIVES & LIBERALS said back, “At least John Edwards looks presidential Kay! He will win for us!”.

Oh yes. I remember my candidate being pushed off the train for sure.

Ian would be a lot better person to ask, but I believe this may be part of a last second move by the Bushies to make sure that US markets do not get too much regulation by proclaiming them to be tied to european standards.

Nice bMaz… “Audacity of Nope”

We need to hang that like a bell around Barry the Privacy Slayer’s well-tailored neck.

Taking a little break now to let y’all work out your anger over this.

So, let me guess…you’re on the McCain Train now?

I’m not so sure about either McCain’s or Obama’s supreme picks. McCain may want to stick it to the snake handlers one last time (he’s said he won’t run again anyway) and Obama– well, if you liked his FISA and abortion cave-ins you’ll love his supreme court pick.

Sailing’s been awesome. Just got back from vacation. I’m tanned, rested, and raring to stir up some trouble! :)

Oh….

That should make a difference, right?

Hillary played games today. She’s not on our side either and she’s no different than Sen. Suzie-Q Collins who will wait to cast her vote by seeing if her vote is needed for the republics to pass a bill or to see if she can vote the way she wants to (with the Democrats) knowing it won’t matter and she can’t be blamed for it passing. Sly!

bob - i was never a clinton supporter. this isn’t about that.

and if you recall, i live in MA - my protest vote is not going affect mccain’s chances one way or the other (although, i’m not sure that i wouldn’t be planning on a protest vote in any case).

p.s. i’m still YOUR fan. and if necessary will be happy to spend weekends, etc again in CT 4 years from now canvassing for another challenger to lieberman.

I hear Obama would consider Lieberman for the Supreme Court

The neocon oligarchy is about to close the deal on world dominance. Attack Iran (provocations assumed) and seal an adversarial international situation for the next administration. The present Bushco admin has achieved their goal of corporate profits for the defense industry and the energy industry. Their will be no effective alternative energy policy under Obama. His health care will have the fate od HRC’s in the 90’s. Bushco is making sure it is business as usual and Obama is indicating as are the Dems that is their game plan too. Only a depression will change that and tip the scales to a Keynesian model of economic policy. Without a liberal media change will not likely occur. The Big Dog has stepped of off the porch on issues that are critical to his welfare (Profit and control). Politics as we have seen in controlled by Bigbrother who knows what is best for you. It is called representative government where only choises that suite the Big Dog are allowed on the political table.
That is the reality. You are allowed to whine and snivel but not change the status quo. Your freedom is narrowed and limited. Obama is incapable of only illusory change.
A young homeless couple from LA has been moving up the coast from hopeless shelter to shelter. After being kicked out they move on. The sadness is they have a month old baby and a two year old toddler. The free lunch programs are being inundated with new clients. The social safety net was the first to be cut by the Governor. The food banks are close to bare.
We all have to form local groups to help one another we can no longer afford to be anonymous or isolated. Neighbor for neighbor whether you like them or not. The poor mostly.

How many are cutting off their noses to spite their faces right now?

Really? I heard John McCain was thinking of putting George Bush on the SCOTUS.

Obama realized it didn’t stand a chance, and maybe thought if he voted Yea, it would help offset McCain’s assertions that he’s “soft on terror” or whatever.

Again this is just making up a story to explain away a fundamental betrayal of core Democratic and progressive principles. It ignores the fact that Obama as leader of the Democratic party could have blocked this from the get go. He could have led on it and chose not to. Even if he was the only Senator willing to vote against it, he still should have shown some moral fiber instead of political calculation and voted against it.

Obama or McCain is the real issue. You don’t have to love Obama, or even LIKE him very much, but you DO have to vote for him. Supreme Court, get it?

I will repeat this every time it comes up. The Democrats have always had sufficient votes even when they were in the minority to stop any Republican choice for the Supreme Court if they had wanted to. They didn’t, not with Roberts, not with Alito. Finally, as PriscillaQOB said above, we do not know what kind of candidates Obama will choose, and if they are mealymouthed right of center ones, they will be as bad for us as another Scalia.

OMG I hope you’re joking!!! I wasn’t thinking of anyone that bad!

FWIW, I’ve been a supporter of the short guy with the funny ears for a long time. He’s the ideal prototype of the progressive candidate, IMO.

Guess I’m being censored again.

Hard to figure this place out but I guess ‘management’ is still guzzling the Kool-Aide.

As to Selise,

You are correct and the SCOTUS argument in bogus. I an demonstrate that with one question.

‘What makes Obama supporters think El Foldo would not nominate Lieberman or Kmeic?’

And do you want to spend the rest of you life listening to Lieberman telling you what to do?

I’ll see your Dubya and raise you a Grover.

Please see the concierge for your free roll of tin-foil.

The problem with Kucinich was he’s actually smart and principled, never a winning combination in American politics, sadly.

Edwards was probably a good choice but he got lost in all the “historic” nonsense about a Barry/HRC. And I say nonsense without a trace of irony…

We have to dance with the one what brung us, but my wallet is closed for this dance… and every one except AccountabilityNow and BlueAmerica.

Mmmm. Perhaps I shouldn’t have posted this.

Let me be clear, and I’ll write a post on it later. I support Barack Obama. If I had a vote, I’d vote for him. He’s a ton better than McCain and there are even some places where he’s objectively really good such as his internet policy. His tax plan isn’t bugfuck crazy — he isn’t trying to spend the same money twice, trying to gut social security or trying to do a huge giveaway to Wall Street through “private accounts”. He’s not progressive, and I wish he’d stop saying he is, which is why I slammed him (don’t talk the talk if you won’t walk the walk) but he is so much better than McCain that it isn’t even comparable.

And again, on some issues, he’s genuinely good.

Obama’s whispering sweet nothings about progressivism, but that doesn’t mean his genuine conservative (in the old sense of the word) beliefs aren’t a pile better than McSame’s lying and craziness. A new Clinton term, which is essentially what Obama is offering, looks pretty good these days.

IIRC, Barry voted to cut off debate on both of Shrub’s SCOTUS picks…

more audacity of nope

Now, there’s some reality!

Selise, thanks for not taking offense. I deal with trolls on my blog on a very regular basis and I sometimes forget to tone down the rhetoric for the very nice people here on FDL. I apologize.

And regarding CT politics…we might see Ned get active again sooner than four year from now. ;)

Well said, I look forward to the post.

Jane’s upstairs…!

How many are cutting off their noses to spite their faces right now?

A good description of Obama right now I think. If Obama goes out of his way to gut things I strongly believe in, why should I vote for him. It is his business to give me a reason to vote for him, not mine to find one.

Ian, we are all probably going to vote for him, but I doubt he could raise $50 if he appeared here in person to take Q&A.

Obama is bad, McCain is worse and Barr is a vote-drainer for the republican caucus.

Obama allegedly taught Constitutional law. Yet, today, he betrayed the Constitution that he taught, and as a Senator, swore to uphold. Although I voted for him in the primary, I will no longer support him.

This was an easy issue, not a close call. If you cannot stand up and fight for the Constitution, what CAN you fight for? You do not deserve to be President, or even a Senator for that matter.

This was an incredible opportunity for Obama to demonstrate his leadership and talent, and lead the fight to defeat this unconstitutional law. Instead, he triangulated. He knows that progressives will be upset, but it doesn’t matter. “What are they going to do, vote for McCain?” he says. He doesn’t even have to add the word “sucker.” It is understood. It is obvious.

Before he clinched the nomination, he said he would vote against any immnunity Bill.

Obama lied.

oh my, that would be VERY good news indeed!

Fair enough.

I’m willing to go on faith that a President Obama with a Democratic majority in Congress will be much more likely to get us moderate to liberal SC nominees than a President McCain will with a wartime Democratic majority (because the missiles will be criss-crossing the Iranian skies before the bible cools off from McCain’s scaly hand on Inauguration Day).

Yeah, four years of Obama will be comparable to merely putting in a finger in the dike. This system is so corrupt that merely tweaking it with a few minor reforms is not going to save it from imploding. Audacity of Hope? More like the Mendacity of Hope.

Jane’s upstairs

Obama needs to re-earn support after so slipping today. How you or I vote on election day is our own choice. But someone (you and i) should hold Obama’s feet to the fire today and tomorrow. Cut off funding to him until he wises up. Keep him on the straight and narrow.

You are wrong on this.

Obama is a Republican-Lite politician.

His election would do nothing to help the people of this nation in any meaningful way as he has repeatedly shown that he will NOT fight for core Democratic principles much less progressive ones.

As to McCain,

‘Better to keep our enemy in front of you than to allow him to stab you in the back under the pretense of friendship’
———-Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

And yeah I am serious. Until we put these mangy Dead Loser Caucus and Dead Caucus Clown Circus tools down like the dangerous rabid dogs they are and elect people who will represent us we will be spending more afternoons debating if Obama is a True Scumbag merely a Clown.

so we need to make some rules so government can go all Schiavo on them at eight months.

So well put. Wait’ll abortion hits the MSM fan.

I was visiting Rachel Maddow’s website and some commenter identified himself or herself as a “Wellstone democrat”. I loved the sound of it, and it seems to fit into this situation with the apologists for Obama vs. the idealists who value principles and integrity who are getting told to get over ourselves. Are you an Obama democrat or a “Wellstone democrat”? I want to be and stay a Wellstone democrat.

Sometimes 4 more years of “somewhat sucky” is better than 4 more years of “disaster after disaster” ya know.

And when kicked in the face by reality I have some hope that Obama might adopt. I have none for McCain.

Yep.

And….

…this is not the first time he’s just flat out lied.

See my #40 on the money.

In a sense, I hope you’re right. My WAG guess, it was deemed critical to cover one or more very senior Dem asses — no cost was too high and all chits were called in.

It’s the initial stripping of immunity in the house, followed by the flip that got me there. Either way, clearly there is to be no accountability for the war drums.

See me at 145.

no apology needed, but it was nice of you to offer.

imo we all have pretty similar long term goals - but that doesn’t mean we won’t differ, sometimes wildly, on what tactics to use.

my position is that if we share similar goals then we are allies - even if we use very different tactics. i only draw the line at actions i consider seriously immoral (i won’t support armed insurrection, etc).

I’m willing to go on faith that a President Obama with a Democratic majority in Congress will be much more likely to get us moderate to liberal SC nominees than a President McCain

And that’s the problem. It is faith. Obama has been running for months and months now. Yet in all that time he has said almost nothing, and certainly nothing specific, about what kind of person he would nominate to the Court, even though that is the most common reason people give here for why they will vote for him.

Yes I was joking. sorry about that…

And regarding CT politics…we might see Ned get active again sooner than four year from now. ;)

p.s. i’ll keep my canvassing shoes at the ready!

The smart money is on Kmeic

Good for Teddy Kennedy today!

wooo, interesting.

1,698 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Ian Welsh and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Obama is a clever and VERY ambitious politician who , at this point, is motivated by winning and there is no moral, ethical or intellectual principle which he will not parse to achieve his goal which is power. This means that there is no moral, ethical or intellectual principle which he will not embrace to gain power so if we can demonstrate a commitment to constitutional and democratic principles and confront him in the streets all over this country up to the Denver convention, we can force ‘im to pledge fealty to our history or lose the election. It is that simple, we use the fear of those incumbents and new activists who understand that if Obama abandons the left and the money machine he built from those grassroots, ALL Democrats up and down the ballot drop into the dustbin.

The game Obama is playin is a game of chicken…be really believes that we will ultimately cave in because we have nowhere else ta go. If we convince ‘im that we will NOT support another Carter or Clinton, his ambition and intellect will bring ‘im around…and if it doesn’t it won’t matter because four years of a corporatist Obama is NOT anywhere better’n four years of McCrazy as long as there are Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress.

Obama is callin’ the progressive left out…we either show up or find another country.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS BATTLE MEANS THE WAR!!

Do you have anything other than your fantasies to believe this to be so?

Beautifully stated Citizen libbyliberal.

You have the essence of it, Sir.

We must deny Obama the WH or the progressive movement is over.

Write in or draft Hillary.

jackie, the little that I’ve heard about this (can’t remember where, on a finance blog somewhere in the last 10 days—naked capitalism?) suggests that 1) the exam is a routine thing meant to establish some baseline cases or an initialization of a history or something for the IMF; 2) it’s actually meant to be rather routine (therefore); 3) the U.S. might possibly have had a chance to bluff their way past it when the IMF began doing these, but decided not to in part to encourage other countries that have very poor national data collection to go along.

That view of it suggests that if the Bushies hadn’t huffed and groused so much about the thing, it would have taken place in a far more neutral environment and not seemed like a signal that we’re about to crash on the rocks. Put another way, the fact that we are probably about to crash on the rocks might be entirely incidental to this exam.

So, at least, I recall.

lol, that’ll fix it.

Write in or draft Hillary.

might as well vote for obama. in other words: not gonna happen.

I am not about to argue with you, but the irony of your outrage and your continued support for the Queen of DLC is just funny, dude.

The worst thing Obama ever does is act like Clinton.. Enough of the both of them!

Look around…use the Google…

Get this straight pal, I am not your research assistant. If you were half, I say half sir, the politically oriented person you present yourself as being you would realize that Lieberman or Kmiec are very possible choices who’s chances have been discussed quite a bit in the ’sphere and the corporatist press.

Do you know who Kmiec is?

Do you know who he endorses for POTUS?

Do you know how many times he’s traveled on Barkey’s plane?

Do you now what Barkey has said of him?

Do you know who his, Kmiec’s, son works for?

No Barkey is not going around saying:

‘Lieberman or Kmiec’ for SCOTUS!’

But the handwriting is on the wall just like today’s vote was foreshadowed over a year ago and guess what?

When I made the assertion that Barkey was gonna sellout the left on FISA I got folks asking me for….

…the link to that.

Teh Google is a great tool.

Try using it once in a while.

To all the Kucinich supporters:

*big humongous hug, kisses, and cocktails all around*

That said, I’m casting my vote for Barack Obama because the thought of Johnny McTeleprompter in the White House literally makes my skin turn different colors. The End.

You don’t have to vote for him, Hugh, if you don’t want to. I’m voting for him because I do not want old man McCain in there. He’s as bad as George Bush. I can’t live with that for another 4 years, and besides, the Democrats are very good at attacking and turning on their own, so they’ll have Barack Obama impeached over something stupid anyways. LOL A sad reality. Assholes they are.

Thank you, citizen Norske.

I think Ian was too kind about “Diet Obama.” I think Obama went all the way to Republican Light.

To the Kool-Aiders here who insist that Clinton is the worst thing that can happen to us I can only laugh at you.

Who voted which way today?

Check Clinton’s Progressive Punch Rating as compared to Barkey’s.

Try real hard to understand that you do not know what the hell you are talking about when your compare Barkey to Clinton.

Go ahead visit Progressive Punch see how Jim Webb ranks against Barkey?

Really pathetic low-info feces throwers.

Hillary Clinton is the TRUE republic-lite here, because if you haven’t noticed, most of her campaign members are now teaming up with Fox News and other right wing whackos.

i’d take you more seriously if you weren’t such a clinton shrill.

I know who Kmiec is. He’s a conservative lawyer, Catholic, Con-law professor at Pepperdine who has endorsed Obama for President. He was supposedly denied communion at a Mass in I believe DC because of his support for Obama since Obama is Pro-Choice. His son clerked for John Roberts.

None of these things mean Obama is going to appoint him to the SCOTUS anywhere other than your imagination.

Bah hahahahahaha! Are you serious? Have you ever read your comments here or on your blog? Bah hahahahahahahahahaha! Oh gawd. Delusional comes to mind and Hillary Tampon In Sideways also comes to mind.

Vote for Johnny McTeleprompter and become a republican. Now that will impress us!

My comment at #175 was in response to ACitizen at #129.

You know nothing about me pal.

As for who I support…

Well, damn I’d rather support someone who is willing to fight for our Constitution as opposed to a gutless punk.

Jus Cogens my ass, pal.

You really should get your Xanax refilled.

You’ve been raving bs all afternoon.

Go lie down and take a nap.

What’s your point.

You never seem to have one except to take exception to what I say.

Get your own life.

Calling Hillary names has never impressed me.
Nor calling Obama names.

And I do believe Hillary is the more progressive of the two.

Uh-huh….

You don’t type any better than you think.

And watch your raving at my blog. You could be banned.

Duck!

I’m doing great, thanks. yes, I have been very busy, making rain for the bloggers. Adjusting to life after my dad’s passing. But I’m doing very well, the family is all well, and the dogs.

How about you?

Barack Obama was on the right track until he made nice with Hillary Clinton. Since that time, he’s been caught in her Black Widow web and has gone down hill. He still gets my vote over McTeleprompter any day of the week.

Hillary voted for the Iraq occupation. Real progressives were against authorizing the use of force against Iraq because we knew George Bush & Dick Cheney were lying to the American people. Fake progressives didn’t notice this.

I won’t be back to your blog. When I left there the other day I had troll shit all over my feet! Wash the carpets over there for your guests please! LOL

ACitizen, what are you doing globally to raise money for Hillary to pay off her campaign debt? I bet nothing, huh?

I wish you and ACitizen would just get a room already.

*g*

Sorry…must be the Wild Turkey talking…

for jackie and prostatedragon: re the IMF’s look at the US’ books.

from Der Speigel via ICH:

The Shrinking Influence of the US Federal Reserve

Another problem for Mr. Dollar is that it will be several months before his actions take effect. Officials with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have informed Bernanke about a plan that would have been unheard-of in the past: a general examination of the US financial system. The IMF’s board of directors has ruled that a so-called Financial Sector Assessment Program (FSAP) is to be carried out in the United States. It is nothing less than an X-ray of the entire US financial system.

As part of the assessment, the Fed, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the major investment banks, mortgage banks and hedge funds will be asked to hand over confidential documents to the IMF team. They will be required to answer the questions they are asked during interviews. Their databases will be subjected to so-called stress tests — worst-case scenarios designed to simulate the broader effects of failures of other major financial institutions or a continuing decline of the dollar.

Under its bylaws, the IMF is charged with the supervision of the international monetary system. Roughly two-thirds of IMF members — but never the United States — have already endured this painful procedure.

My point is that you have no more exceptional knowledge and insight into Senator Obama’s potential SCOTUS nominees than I do and I have no idea and would not presume to make any guesses.

Although I think I would be willing to guess that Douglas Kmiec and/or Joe Lieberman would neither one be a SCOTUS selection by a President Obama.

Enough!

Started out as good Ian post, bet he’ll think twice next time, and was even fun after the first members of the Obama Clown Circus showed up.

But as usual you folks brought butter knives to a gun fight.

Lies…

Ad Hominem attacks

Pointless ranting….

You all got a good long run out of those essentially Republican techniques but that’s all over now.

People see Obama for what he is.

The Magic and more importantly the Money’s gone away.

I got more important things to do than listen to the likes of Mr. ‘Jus Cogens’ and KatyOurofherMind.

See ya.

Obama is callin’ the progressive left out…we either show up or find another country

We are getting it from both sides. McCain and Repubs gonna stir up the 60s one more time, and show footage of Woodstock, etc. Dissing the generation that hastened the end of the VietNam war and made government transparency a priority from the control addict neocon conservatives.

Obama skating away from those issues is demoralizing. Especially since Watergate so parallels now. In fact we have the same cockroaches who managed to survive from then, all the more immune to control like some real cockroaches that get immune and stronger after being sprayed… Karl Rove I just found out was trained by little “rat f*cking” (remember that term then?), dirty tricks Donald Segretti. And after all Rove’s slimey lying and wedging he is given a gig with Newsweek and favored honored pundit on MSM. Cheney, Rumsfeld. Gamesmanship is the AMERICAN PRIORITY … integrity and morality…. not.

I look forward to Obama getting his consciousness and conscience raised. I even wrote Edwards asking him to re-emerge somehow.

LL, another Wellstone- (not Obama-) democrat :)

The only thing i know about you is your shrilling for clinton.

How you justify Clinton i’ll never figure out.

LOL You’re making me abuse my Diet Pepsi. I just spit it out!!!!! Now stop it. ;-)

Folks, we’re all upset, especially today, but lets remember that we’re on the same side and disagreements are almost always tactical, not about deep principles.

lol!

Ian, if it helps…I’m typing with a smile on my face and giggling to myself. ;-)

Flanders is talking money dirty over at GRITtv.

Here’s how I gage the SCOTUS deal:

Johnny McTeleprompter said recently (paraphrasing but close)….”Just wait until you see my SCOTUS picks!”.

Scary.

Obama has my vote on that note alone. ;-)

Thanks Kirk. Thought I was the only one out there screaming “audit, audit, audit”!

Any chance you know of a competent online primer on the US financial system?

Orin Kerr: Who would Obama Nominate to the Supreme Court? Posted February 26

The statements excerpted there show a profound difference with McCain. McCain has to go with “original intent” to satisfy the wingnut constituency. Obama shows an awareness that the law affects people and that he will look for someone who will apply the Rawls Difference Principle (”Social and economic inequalities are to be for the greatest benefit of the least advantaged”). These statements show a bit of a dignitarian spark. That said, I am frustrated because Obama knew the people he was dealing with and never issued any statement about Fourth Amendment issues with this bill because the bill would pass anyway, by the margin it did. We have no evidence that he thought about it. That’s very sad.

I’m totally afraid that Obama used us. He used the blogs. He used the progressives. He used us to create a stir. He used us because he knew how much WE WANTED TO BELIEVE in SOMEONE. Now he’s only out for himself.

I’ll write in Dodd or Finegold when I vote.
You just said everything I’m feeling!

How do you et to RAchels web site. I have been looking for it. can you send it over. Thanks

Can I have some of what you’re smoking?

Hooray !!! And it does show the diminishing influence of the U.S., basically brought about by the falling dollar. And guess who can be blamed for that?

While I don’t disagree that Obama has betrayed the Fourth Amendment, I find the idea that Hillary Clinton wouldn’t have done the exact same in the same position or that she is now a hero to the progressive movement to be quite a breathtaking assumption.

Yet again — although Hillary’s and Edwards’ plans might be universal — that does NOT mean all Americans can afford it.

All 3 plans — Obama, Hillary, Edwards — still include health insurance companies.

And this is BS. So — who cares if a certain plan CLAIMS to be “universal”? None of them are.

“be really believes that we will ultimately cave in because we have nowhere else ta go.”; I don’t accept that ‘we have nowhere else to go’. Is not voting a matter of principle as well? I have an advasntage that I live in CA and can write in a candidate AND have my vote counted as long as that candidate has electors. (THAT, people, is what you’re really voting for, not a candidate).
But, yeah, I’m old enough to leave the country. And I won’t feel bad about it because I served in the military and have paid taxes for 45 years.
And I still think that the majority of the population is “drowning in a solipsistic consumer culture, borrowing against the future to maintain an excessive and opulent standard of living without actually manufacturing anything of value.”

I agree! You cannot judge Hillary’s July stances with what she would have done had she won the nomination.

I am very angry with Obama on several issues, but that does NOT mean I wish I had voted for Hillary. Apples and oranges.

Exactly.

Obama has said that he would have voted against the 2002 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF). Given his cowardly performance in the FISA vote today, does anyone really believe that anymore? He sought cover under cosmetic amendments, and then voted to eviscerate our civil liberties. That is the essence of triangulation. This was a much easier and clearer vote than the AUMF. It was a no-brainer for a Constitutional lawyer, and he still did not have the back-bone to oppose this unconstitutional Bill that has no support among his real constituents. He would have done the same thing in the 2002 AUMF vote. He would have triangulated, and then voted with the herd.

You now know all that you need to know about Obama. He does not have the back-bone or the courage to stand up for fundamental principles. That is his essence and it will never change. That is Obama.

I can’t wait for Pres. Obama to let us all know what the coversation between Cheney and the Halliburton home office in Dubai contains. Hey, just trying to look on the bright side!

http://airamerica.com/maddow/

enjoy… she’s the best. This is the blog for her AirAmerica show though the more she is on Olbermann the more frequently David Bender subs for her.

It may be worth pointing out that Wellstone voted for the Defense of Marriage Act and the Patriot Act. Not to denigrate the man at all, but to point out that there are no spotless saints in politics, and it’s folly to judge any politician on the basis of one vote.

Welcome Weirdsmobile

I hear Obama would consider Lieberman for the Supreme Court

If you’re going to put the knife in so fast and in broad daylight could you at least twist it gently.

Too true. Thanks for the education. I am chastened and I hope emerging from my anger stage. Obama seems ready to throw the baby out with the bath water in order to get elected. Alarms me. It’s not one vote, its a pattern, and his incapacity for sustained empathy and loyalty alarms me. He campaigned on being different. Now he turns out to out-politician the politicians? Well, maybe that is different?