Aloha, Ian!

So, has American Capitalism become ‘quaint’, yet?

Well….somebody has to do this heinous job.

Seriously, would you want the uber-richtards to take all their money home to Dubai?

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses…! Ain’t that the American way…?

I favor currency controls, actually. :)

its the bushification of banking…. laws and rules are for little people

if ya have enough money, there is no responsibility for anything

Say what happens if the market for oil collapses in response to oh….the construction of the Solar Grand Plan?

Would that mean the beachfront property in Abu Dubai would become cheap as say…

…..a pile of sand.

Oh! Silly me Bush just issued and executive order to the effect that Federal lands, all of ‘em Homer, are proscribed from being used to collect solar energy. Drill of oil or methane, fuck up the aquifer all very cool with ‘conservatives’.

Solar Energy…..not so much, eh?

Back to the Gold Standard…heh

Hi Ian- I just missed you on an earlier thread, so this is a reprise: always enjoy your posts, and especially compliment you on the way you engage with commenters on the threads. I appreciate that greatly.

Re: previous thread (sorry, OT here) I have a niggle tho- imo “global climate change” is a better framing/ phrase than “global warming”. Repeating bec. I think the distinction is important.

What is the distinction…in 25 words or less.

Not being negative but if you can’t frame it that quickly I don’t think the change in usage will take place.

But VG’s ‘framing’ is much more accurate.

;~D

Actually, I thought Shrub only told the EPA to slow walk the EIS process… Rather ironic they finally saw the usefulness of an EIS…!

Climate change includes more storms, more droughts, more changes from normal weather. Some very few places might even get colder. The effects of CO2 aren’t limited to the world just getting warmer.

Thanks for the translation. I hope bubble management will be retired as a stabilization policy soon.

I read someplace that there will be three stages to the housing bubble meltdown:
1) securities markets freeze up as people realize badly designed and unregulated security market bets on whether borrowers can pay off loans, were in fact very bad bets
2) borrowers cannot pay off loans
3) bank problems because people did not pay off loans

Did I read that here?

I guess we are in midst of stage 2 and Fed is trying out more of their previous stage 1 medicine for the nascent stage 3.

Dr Dick put it very well in a comment just recently-

I would have to agree since the models actually predict greater climate instability and more severe climatic events, including cold spells. There is a global average rise in temperature, but some regions may become, at least seasonally, colder than at present.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/07…..nt-1532509

BTW, someone called Dubai “a city for the ultra rich built on the backs of slave labor”.

I think that’s pretty accurate, and it’s a good thing to bring up, often. Of course the rich like Dubai. 80% of the population has no rights to speak of.

Well, 2 and 3 are sort of happening together. And a lot of banks had all this stuff strictly speaking “off book”. How strictly, though, I wonder. And the shadow banking system is in a world of pain. More bad news for Fannie and Freddie today, for example.

Thanks, Ian.

And, I’d say “global climate change” is more hard hitting (and correct, as you agree) than “global warming”

AC- it’s not that the temperature is creeping up uniformly across the globe, it’s that weather patterns are totally changing

All this has been discussed and reported at part of the ‘Global Warming’ story. Lot and lots. Doesn’t matter now it’s not going to change in the public consciousness. It’s been ‘branded’.

Google both phrases see what you get.

Bertha set new records, the earliest and the quickest jump from TS to Cat 3… Batten down the hatches, Right Coasters…!

Including much more locally violent storms of all types.

It is not just ‘warming’ by any means.

OT- Breaking News. Federal Judge Thomas Hogan has ordered the Justice Department to set aside all other pending cases tin order to prioritize the trials of Guantanamo detainees. He has said that delaying justice for 7 years for the detainees simply was not acceptable under the Constitutions protections for a “fair and speedy trial”.

Hogan’s Heroics

I think that this means that anything coming through the Washington Circuit will not be heard unless it’s a Gitmo related trial. Sounds like he’s pretty serious about this.

Large chunk of Australia in drought for years now. That bread basket will probably never come back. One reason why there are some food issues.

BTW, someone called Dubai “a city for the ultra rich built on the backs of slave labor”.

I think that’s pretty accurate, and it’s a good thing to bring up, often. Of course the rich like Dubai. 80% of the population has no rights to speak of.

Maybe they should consider having the premier for the newly discovered footage of Metropolis shown there?

Hmmmmmmmm…..

80% you say…

Sounds mighty familiar to me. Would that be the 81% whom polling shows vehemently oppose the FISA ‘compromise’ Democratic Party ‘Leadership’ are so proud of.

Those people.

Those people don’t count only the ‘creative class’ morons and such as Tweety, MoDo-she’s really outdone herself lately, and The friking Village matter Ian.

You should know that.

bankruptcy, is used to be for little people.

(to be filed under “Not No Mo’”)

Well, each of us can make an effort to change the branding!

So our taxes go for war and to bail out rich guys? Something is very wrong here. We overwhelmingly don’t want the war and no one even bothered to ask us about bailing out the wall street types who not so long ago were raking in their millions in salaries. Our friends are sleeping in their cars because they lost their homes, but the banks that gave them an unscrupulous loans get multi-billion dollar no strings attached loans on our backs? Christ on a pogo stick, this sucks! You know, I get more disheartened by the day!

Bernanke stated today that he will consider extending the Term Loan Auction Facility and Primary Dealer Credit Facility, which are due to expire in September this year, into 2009. The majority of talking heads erroneously lists the TLAF as a $200 billion facility. Actually, the Fed quietly increased the size of that facility to $275 billion a couple weeks ago.
In addition, Bernanke is promoting what essentially would be a federal taxpayer bailout of banks which go into liquidation.
Bernanke also endorsed proposals to set up a federal liquidation process for a failing investment bank. The Treasury should “take a leading role in any such process, in consultation with the firm’s regulator and other authorities,’ he said.
Please be aware that a “federal liquidation process” involving the Treasury is another way of saying “let the taxpayers assume the liabilities that aren’t covered by selling assets.” Int the end is where the little guy always gets it and this case is no different.

Aargh, that means they won’t be able to get to all the Contempt of Congress violations, like Harriet’s, Bolten’s, soon to be added, Mukasey’s and Turd Blossom’s,… Could it be a conspiracy…? ;-)

I’m not stopping you but to what effect. As I’ve tried to point out there have been countless stories in the media about the fact that although the cause of the the weather changes result from an increase in the global temperature the effects are not limited to climate change associated with heat.

There will be much more rain for example in the SouthEast U.S. Best head West is what it looks like there. Whereas NorCal and OR and WA will stay cool but get dryer.

Whoops California Water Project don’t work if it rains instead of snows in the Winter….

…and that’s already happening.

I was going to make a certain comment, but I found what I was going to say right in the body of your cited article:

The Bush administration hoped it would never come to this. The Justice Department has fought for years to keep civilian judges from reviewing evidence against terrorism suspects.

heh – why does the phrase “shittin’ nickels” come to mind?

What would happen if Bernacke DID NOT DO THIS? Do you know?

Large sections of Blogistan devoted to economics are strongly of the opinion that AT THIS POINT in the disaster what Bernacke is doing makes sense.

Many say it is the only think standing between the current problems and TOTAL COLLAPSE of the market.

This would not be a good thing.

So our taxes go for war and to bail out rich guys?

even better – taxes go to bail our rich guys so they can continue to speculate on energy (and agriculture) futures, driving speculative bubbles. that way you get to pay more for food and energy.

it’s brilliant.

When do suppose the mass media will start admitting that we have neither a representative republic nor a democracy but an oligarchy? Strictly rhetorical; will never happen,too honest.

Hey anyone know how to Digg? Time to start Digging Ian’s posts, I think.

I’ve joined, and tried to Digg this post (I love Ian’s version of “Shorter Fed”) but I couldn’t get Digg to work.

diggs been down all afternoon :(

The feds would have a better chance of improving the economic situation and making some dough by just buying the houses and selling them off to people, as they did in Great Depression. That would mean the corporations would have to eat more losses.

Question for those in the know: An argument could be made in favor of the previous instances, that some of the securities firms were too big to fail. They were essential cogs in the financial system. Seems like that argument is much weaker now. Who are they saving, exactly? Are any of these firms really ‘too big to fail’? Or too important to experience severe liquidity problems even if they don’t fail? If they are not, then the critical argument justifying this approach is gone. And there are many other possible remedies that will provide needed housing that is now sitting empty and rotting, will produce less exposure to the taxpayer, and do some good for the de facto employment recession.

So, are the new clients of the Fed largesse and laxity too big to fail?

This is why I am a socialist.
VG – Thanks for the very kind shout out.

When donkeys fly.

WTFDYE the rethuglians are for the rich and the little guy gets bent over again and again. Whether it the price of gasoline, the costs of medical care or the costs of feeding your family… the common citizen is expected to carry the weight of the rich’s excesses…. Oh and don’t get me talking about Bush tax cuts… how much have you saved on your taxes… An the rethuglians want the tax cuts made permanent. I didn’t work during the Raygun years and it sure as hell hasn’t worked now. This is nothing but CLASS War and the rich are wining big time…

Second time to day I have tried to ‘digg’ the top story on FFL and ‘Digg’ not accept it even when pasting the url; what is going on? Is FL somehow blacklisted from ‘digg’?

Thanks very much Ian.

Reason 1001 as to why a progressive movement to take effective political control of Congress is so vital.

Fuck SCOTUS

FUCK POTUS

Congress makes the laws and that is also where we have the quickest, House terms are only two years, best road using the tools of the Internet and the soon to be assembled ‘Progressive Agenda’ to one by one take out the idiots, thieves, and tools that populate it now and….

…make Congress the instrument of the people’s will.

It can be and must be done. At this state of play there is no other course.

Without recourse to Jefferson’s famous quote.

Suz- so it’s not a browser issue, for example?

WHat would happen if they did fail?
And how nice it would be for people to have houses that otherwise are being stripped of copper, etc. as they lie vacant.
I believe I am a socialist too.

One of my maxims is that there is no such thing as a free market. The only questions worth asking are who runs them and for whose benefit. In this case, we see the government through the Fed operating a market for the benefit of the rich.

as far as i know… i was not able to digg in ff or ie – i heard from day shift that digg was down.. don’t know the why

I should also point out that this liquidity that the Fed injects into financial markets helps fuel the speculation in crude oil.

Aargh, that means they won’t be able to get to all the Contempt of Congress violations, like Harriet’s, Bolten’s, soon to be added, Mukasey’s and Turd Blossom’s,…

Don’t worry – some big-balled Democrats from the Judiciary Committees are bound to step forward and demand that the inherent contempt power be used forthwith…

ha! – cracked myself up again….

The great thing is that they’re still getting huge bonuses. That’s what’s truly sick. Bonusses paid in 2008 were as high as in 2007, higher in fact, even though many of the companies giving them are insolvent. These people don’t live in the real world, they live in a very special protected place where no matter how bad you fuck up, you’ll always be taken care of. The consequence is that instead of hanving hundreds of millions, there is a small chance you might only have tens of millions after stock prices tank. Maybe, only maybe.

IIRC, once ENRON realized they were in trouble, they actually received significant cash from Dynegy. ENRON had no cost controls in place, however, so all the money Dynegy pumped in just leaked right out. This sounds very similar. We desperately need transparency and oversight on the securities the FED is accepting.

Ian if you can get Jane’s attention on this, it’s the kind of think Maxine Waters (D-CA) might be able to get some traction on.

The feds would have a better chance of improving the economic situation and making some dough by just buying the houses and selling them off to people, as they did in Great Depression. That would mean the corporations would have to eat more losses.

Actually this would be a fine idea. It was then and still is now. It also allows the government to recoup some of it’s losses.

The Republicans will never allow it tho at it’s too much like what should have been done in the first place.

Tax all income and a 90% rate above something like 5 million.

This used to be where it was, approx. in the 60s and despite being there I remember it quite well explosive growth. A real middle class and opportunities to get ahead with an honest approach.

The ‘conservative’ scumbags have been so victorious in the dialogue about ‘taxes’ that even here there is little to no understanding about what, how and why taxes can be used in a progressive way.

That they are by their very nature progressive.

The firms I have read about recently who are, or will be, in trouble are big mortgage firms. Are they too big to fail? Are they essential cogs.

If not, the only really good argument for this Fed policy is gone, and many alternative methods become more attractive.

I like the way you put it -what would happen if they failed. Who is ‘too big to fail’ now? I’d like to know

Yep

You should do stand up comedy.;)

I missed the 75 million increase myself. And, of course, there’s a seperate facility for banks worth 200 million. So they’re up to 475, out of their 800 billion balance sheet.

Suz it is not the Digg web site it self,I can go tp C=L and Digg away all day and things work just fine. It seems it is Firedoglake’s problem…. I have tried all different ways to get a Digg started at Digg site but it can’t find the Posts and the Digg site can’t connect to the different URL’s for the lake… It is a job for the back room boys… probably a problem with the DNS services running on either the Lake’s ISP or Digg’ ISP ,they are just aren’t not talking to each other!!

Absolutely. “The Free Market” is a pernicious cultural myth. All markets operate within complex regulatory networks which are essential for their existence. The structure of the regulations play a large part in determining who wins and loses. Our own regulatory framework strongly favors the interests of capital at the expense of labor, consumers, and society at large.

Actually we are in multiple stage 3s. Houses, Helocs, Commercial, Credit Cards, Auto Loans, Student Loans, you name it

Oops, reading backwards through the comments and just saw your #35. It’s like a cat chasing its tail. It can’t go on forever. At some point the cat, i.e. financial markets and our economy are going to collapse in exhaustion. I have said it before Paulson and Bernanke’s primary purpose is not to fix anything but to keep it marginally together until it can be dumped on the next Administration.

Instead of bailing out private, you bail out public. You take over the companies, put them under government control, and wind them down slowly and carefully – those that are actually bankrupt. At the same time you change the laws around securities so that this sort of thing can’t happen again. I do agree that letting the entire finance sector go under ugly is a bad idea, but bailing them out essentially no strings attached is not smart either.

the tech crew is aware of the digg problem is my understanding

The Federal Reserve has in effect said to these firms, ‘We won’t let you go under.’ This makes sense NOW as the next ‘lender of resort’ who would be in the crosshairs of market forces driving it to failure would be the Federal mortgage lenders Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

The Fed is trying to stop the meltdown NOW. And us mere citiizens had better hope they can.

The alternative is apt to be something like, ‘A Boy and His Dog’ or….

…’Soylent Green’.

Wow, Dear God, I am so glad to see some good news. Alittle sqeeze play would be great…

SEC finds shortcomings in credit raters

Chris Cox starts trying to close the barn door AFTER the horses have run off.

um, if I’m reading you correctly, I’m here to say we are certainly into No. 3 now. I’m hearing of another “bank in crises” seems like every several days or so, wesgpc.

ha! – cracked myself up again….

Now, put down the crack pipe, and step away…! ;-)

Come on, if Maliki can surely the Dems can too, dont’cha think?

That’s right I have dugg all over th eplace today, except for my most dugg site. It’s all Nahant’s fault & I demand justice! You’re probably quite safe, the case has been referred to the Congressionsal Ethics Committee.

Btw, I’m loving KO this week…! *swoon* ;-)

The firms I have read about recently who are, or will be, in trouble are big mortgage firms. Are they too big to fail? Are they essential cogs.

If not, the only really good argument for this Fed policy is gone, and many alternative methods become more attractive.

I think they are scared shitless by the trillions of dollars in derivatives exposure that big investment banks have taken on and that might go down with them if they go down.

“the Digg site can’t connect to the different URL’s for the lake…”

That is the problem I was having!

INdeed not and I did not mean to imply that. There is much talk in economics land about ‘moral hazard’ and ”accountablity…’, last one sounds familiar.

It’s very important, OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE, that those who played fast and loose with lending standards and, dare I utter it, ethics here not only pay a stiff price but….

...BE SEEN TO DO SO!

I think it will happen. The stakes and the players know that the game is a really, really good one for them and they will have Congress hip-hopping whereever the fuck they want those 538 chumps to go.

If not.

We are all fucked. Not just us ‘poor folk’.

In 1891, the American Bankers Association sent out an interbank memo stating that a Depression would arrive on a certain date in 3 years.

In Sept 1894, another ABA memo told banks not to renew loans and to recall demand monies. The stated aim was to cause a Depression and thereby confiscate 2/3 of farms West of the Mississippi, and thousands of farms East of the Mississippi. The banking Cabal expected a return to tenant farmers, as in England.

The Cabal has caused many Depressions, including the coming Depression.

Jane’s ‘Big Tent’ is too big…! *g*

Glass Steagall ring a bell.

Who’s administration was at bat for the repeal of same?

And does Obama know what it was?

You sure we can tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican?

I’m losing track myself.

LOL… But of course it’s MY fault… all I have to do is just look at the Lake funny like and blewie it screws up every ones night:>)

Please ask the concierge for a box of tin foil.

No…no…no….

It’s a FireFox conspiracy. Everytime I install an upgrade and visit here it all goes…

……….blooey.

Technical IT term.

I tried to submit this post to Digg, but Digg says there is a problem with the URL.

Any advice, Mods?

Ya mean Rachel… she already has someone CT cool down… But she really should have own show during prime time would be better than that hardball show they have!!

What actual ‘value’ do these folks add to the economy or society generally, Ian.

I do not think you need to posit overt market manipulation of this sort. Financial instability of the sort we are currently undergoing is inherent in the capitalist system (as are the incentives to making the bad decisions which got us here). It is exacerbated by the other inherent tendency of capitalist markets toward monopoly or oligopoly.

Oh. I have not had time to keep up in detail. Then stage 1 is not quite done yet. I guess I need to go find a list of who looks to be next on the meltdown chopping block.
—
To ACitizen: the FM’s are spin offs from government agencies, and are still what would be considered quango’s in British parlance, I believe. They are not really a product of competitive free market enterprize. One of them was created to create a duopoly rather than a monopolistic market, I think. So they are not Bear Stearns, or Goldman Sachs, or a major bank.

So, since that big part of the market is basically a creation of the government, I guess I don’t see why they should be treated like other parts of the private financial sector. Gummint should have stronger hand, maybe take them over.

In other words, I don’t see a lot of mysterious intricate and ineffably delicate yet astoundlingly robust competitive free market magic in those two corporations to be careful about.

But I admit I do have not had time to keep up last couple of months.

scroll up

tech crew is aware of the problem.. i have confirmed they know of it and are trying to fix it

read up

At best, zip. At worst negative value. As the prophet Marx so aptly observed, the investor class are basically social parasites.

I have FireFox too. And I’ve certainly had kablooy (sp?) going on now for seems like a month or so. I thought that was happening to everyone, however.

ian has a new post upstairs

Whoops California Water Project don’t work if it rains instead of snows in the Winter….

The state Legislature can’t figure out that they need to build underground water storage. There is a water emergency in California, not to mention alot of the state is on fire because everything is dry.

IIRC, this is about the bill that Franks wants to pass:

Congress rushing to push through a bill that CBO projects will hand $680 million to lenders.

*sigh* She’s forbidden fruit, I’m of the wrong persuasion too…! But, one can always dream, right? *g*

Thanks for that Suzanne. I kinda knew that, or assumed that was the situation. Those good folk don’t miss ANYTHING overall, I’m sure they’re all over the glitches here.
:)

Ah, but owing to the myth$ of American Capitali$m they are very $ucce$$ful para$ite$, and $ince everybody (we are told) want$ to be like them they are a protected $pecie$.

The 30B Bear Stearns swap was recently re-evaluated to be just one hair shy of demonstrable taxpayer loss. Then the next re-evaluation [what? I am psychic. I just KNOW there will be one.] will juust tip one little toe into the taxpayer portion in the mid 28B mark. Who could complain about such a tiny adjustment then? And after that, it’s precedent.

Wow! A post an hour. Post haste!!!

I’m not being clear here.

Discussions of what or what is ‘a free market’ and whether they are good or bad is of little importance here.

The argument Majorus at the moment is whether, now that the barn is on fire due to neglect and the hiring of an arsonist to be ostler, the fire in this barn can be controlled by pouring more water on it or, in order to save the neighbor’s barns, Germany…France…China….India et. al., this barn needs to be blown up to create a fire break.

It’s right to be concerned about the hype, scam and outright lies our economy is now managed through but first things must be first….

Put out the fire.

You should you research the 1929 Depression.

The Cabal’s inner circle initiated that depression in the spring of 1929. That summer the word went out via Morgan Bank to the Rockefellers, Kennedys, and others to unload their stock holdings. The Depression hit in October, when calls monies were suddenly removed from the stock markets.

Depressions are a no-brainer for this Cabal of private bankers.

Dream A little Dream

Hmmm, I submitted an article on another site to Digg maybe half an hour ago, and it appeared to work…

Anyone have Digging problems on other sites?

neuro

the tech crew is aware of the problem and is working to fix it

Ian, IMHO, has the correct approach here. Nationalize the failing companies and slowly phase out their assets in an orderly manner (which does NOT include payouts to the idiot management which created this mess).