Especially not Gordon Smith’s. While a number of candidates are running right this year as their means of escaping the Bush legacy (because Bush, you know, wasn’t a reeeeal conservative) (yuh, right), the Oregon Republican is working hard to portray himself as an honest-to-gosh moderate. This is in large part because Oregon has been trending leftward in recent years, and the movement-conservative brand is in wide disrepute anyway.
And like other Northwest faux moderates (see, e.g., Dave Reichert), Smith’s "moderation" is of a distinct variety: run against Bush policy at certain convenient moments, but the rest of the time you’re a reliable GOP company guy. In other words, he’s a phony.
Take, for instance, his recent attempts to court the gay community, making hay of his support for bias-crimes legislation. However, a number of gays are questioning his commitment to their civil rights, especially given his votes against recognizing gay marriage. In recent weeks, he’s become simply incoherent on the issue: watch the video above and see if you can decipher what the hell he’s saying.
It’s clear, in fact, that Smith’s posture on gay rights is the kind of "moderation" that would simply sell gays and lesbians down the river in the name of pacifying the bellicose defenders of "tradition." As Carla Axtman at the NPIBlog notes, back in 1996 he was clear that discrimination against gays and lesbians should be permitted:
In 1996 during a very heated and intense run for the U.S. Senate against Ron Wyden, Smith came clean on his position allowing for discrimination against gays and lesbians:
Republican U.S. Senate candidate Gordon Smith said Friday that he believes it is okay in some circumstances to discriminate against homosexuals.
At a news conference at his campaign headquarters, Smith was asked whether it was all right for a landlord to refuse to rent an apartment to a gay person simply because the person is gay.
"There may be circumstances where someone for religious reasons would not want to "rent to a gay person" and I would not want to compel them to do so", Smith said.
Those of us who were around during the civil-rights era remember hearing this rationale before — namely, that religious beliefs about black people’s racial inferiority should confer a right to discriminate (in jobs, housing, etc.). Indeed, there is no shortage of movement conservatives who still spout such nonsense, in truth. And of course, it’s a big favorite of the Christian Identity set.
Smith confers fresh life to the same logic when he when applies it to gay people’s civil rights: "It’s OK to discriminate against gay people if your pastor told you to do it. Oh, and you shouldn’t push too hard on changing the definition of marriage because that just gets everyone all worked up." (The latter, I’m pretty sure, being the upshot of Smith’s babble in that video.)
See, I never knew "moderate" meant "pay lots of lip service at election time but when push comes to shove will still sell your sorry ass down the river." Guess that must be in the GOP dictionary — the one that fewer people are using these days, especially in Oregon. No wonder.
Fortunately, Jeff Merkley makes the choice easy for Oregonians — both gays and lesbians as well as the straight folks who don’t believe it’s right to discriminate against them for any reason. You can help here.
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“See, I never knew “moderate” meant “pay lots of lip service at election time but when push comes to shove will still sell your sorry ass down the river.”
Well, seems so!
Uh-huh. “I am for civil rights, except when they are inconvenient and I am not for them.” Sounds like the GOP mantra.
he’s trying to say
Given that he is a Rethug, I suppose he might be qualified to clean toilets.
Aloha, Dave!
Congressman,Charles A. Lindberg Sr., at the time of the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913:
”The new law will create inflation whenever the trusts want inflation. From now on depressions will be scientifically created.”
Hola
btw, don’t think the definition is only a GOP one.
“Guess that must be in the GOP dictionary”
“See, I never knew “moderate” meant “pay lots of lip service at election time but when push comes to shove will still sell your sorry ass down the river.”
Seen plenty of times when Dems have done just that.
Check out the Smith’s framing in the video – “demands” of gays and lesbians, Christians as “victims” – this guy has all the wingnut BS down pat.
ya mean outhouses a toilet would be too clean a job for one of THEM!
Well, he says “I am a devout Mormon”…
That pretty much says everything
Well, he says “I am a devout Mormon”… ya mean Smith personal religion don’t cha
clearing throat
Actually, I had in mind the chemical toilets that the National Forest Service has all over the Northwest. Somebody has to empty those puppies eventually. 8-)
transsexuals were sold out by the Dems on the “Hate Crimes” bill, e.g.
I’m going to be blunt, because I’m in an extremely blunt frame of mind this evening.
Watching that video, I was struck by how jumbled Smith’s mealy-mouthed platitudes and sympathy-card homilies were.
I have Mormons in my family tree – Nice people, but not the final word on marriage by a long damn shot…And I would hate like Hell to have to formulate realistic public policy and labor under the suspensions of reality that they practice as a way of life.
Evidently Smith has elected to do so, which places his feet firmly on a pandering path from the onset, for you cannot serve two demanding masters that are diametrically opposed in needs with any degree of effectiveness.
He is saying nothing, therefore he is nothing. Good luck to the nowhere man.
hey db
Hi Suz.
If he is a devout Mormon, then he cannot be, by church dogma, a friend to the LGBT community, women, or minorities. Just as you cannot not be a pro-choice devout Catholic.
the same negatives romney has – and will have if mcsame chooses the mittster as veep
This gay has one simple demand of Senator Gordon Smith: pack yer bags, dude. You are outta here this November. And take yer only wife, the lovely Sharon, who you’ve been married to for 33 years, with you.
Douchebag.
So this would apply to the still-possible V.P. candidate Mitt Romney too, right?
ding
Precisely, Dr. (although I would differ subjectively in the case of minorities) – it is an ecclesiastical redundancy, and he is wasting his Lord’s infinite patience and his constituents’ time and money by dabbling in this faux populist charade, if it is so.
Hi darkblack… still waiting on my McSame/Ethel Merman montage ;~P
Nowhere Man
That one?
For anyone proclaiming themselves a devout member of any religion, their positions on policy issues must be seen through the lens of church dogma. By such statements they make their religion a central issue in the election. You can be a “practicing member” and differ with the church on some issues (as do Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry), but you cannot claim to be devout.
Are you now, Dr. Bong?
;>)
No, the simple insouciant charms of Pepperland are far too ornate for such a drab, colorless personality as this fellow Smith.
The Mormon church has moved a bit toward moderation in recent years, but they still hold as a matter of dogma that darkness of complection is a sign of moral inferiority. They even hold (or did) that minorities who convert to Mormonism will become lighter and more pleasing to God over the generations.
hahahahaha
Oh dear God. That is possibly the worst of two worlds.
Not the Honey Pots…! ;-)
I would like to ask Smith how he felt when LDS decided blacks could join. You’ll recall Mitt Romney heard it on the car radio and had to stop, as he was overcome sobbing.
One can, of course, interpret that emotional reaction a number of ways.
Brain Bleach, Stat…! ;-)
LOL!
The very same. At least here in western Montana they actually maintain them quite well, which suggests he would be one busy camper.
YEAH… the digg is back *3 cheers to the tech crew*
*speechless*
I’m glad, however, that I got the #1
Bong’s in da house!
Thanks, Darkblack
Keep ‘em coming!
I wonder what radio station was reporting the news that the Mormon’s weren’t doctrinally bigoted anymore?
Sounds hokey as all getout to me.
-G
As I said, a subjective difference – My Mormon cousin married a lovely dark-hued Polynesian girl, also LDS as was her family.
My father, ‘God’s own cracker’, was probably more discomfited than any other present, and not even in a particularly demonstrative way which I viewed as either a sign of progress, or encroaching enfeeblement.
;>)
That said, I have certainly seen much evidence of what you are referring to, regarding church policies.
dugg!
Great quote, Teddy-
~~My faith has also always told me that, in the eyes of God, every individual was, was merited the, the fullest degree of happiness in the hereafter, and I, and I had no question in my mind that African-Americans and, and blacks generally, would have every right and every benefit in the hereafter that anyone else had and that God is no respecter of persons~~~
Sorry, can’t figure how to Bold “hereafter”, but that’s pretty telling, isn’t it?
dont’ forget to digg the downstairs posts ya liked when the digg was down
And that someone as prominent in the LDS community was alerted to it on the radio. Totally fishy. Of course, in the same interview, Mitt lied about Dad marching with MLK. It was that lie that titillated the media, but this breakdown lie deserves fuller attention, because of the cognitive dissonance it would create in a believer in divine revelation like MItt.
That’s Mormon theology. It’s all about building up a store of brownie points for the afterlife, essentially.
As I said earlier, the church has become somewhat more moderate (see Teddy @ 33)and individual Mormons vary in their attitudes. The church has long had a very strong outreach program aimed at Pacific Islander and American Indians (which is why I know about this aspect of dogma) and accepts conversions from everyone. Their official attitudes toward and treatment of minorities, however, remains problematic (they are still largely excluded from the church hierarchy for instance).
And one would note that in that torrent of verbiage, at no time did Romney answer the question.
What was that William S. Burroughs axiom? Ah, yes: ‘If you’re doing business with a religious sonofabitch, get it in writing…’
;>)
Good evening Firepups. Y’all doing OK?
All the more reason to treat their (and any other groups) action-free platitudes with disdain, IMO.
Evening, Betsy. How are you?
Hiya Tex!
I have been away from all posts today, and trying to catch up…
Yep.
Thanks for comment, David.
I come from a family that really was not very much into Religion. I had plenty of Mormon friends growing up, but when elders once came to the house to discuss “converting VG”, my mother threw them out.
She had a brush with colon cancer, and there were some difficult topics- like, if you die, where should we put you?
She said “I really don’t care- when you’re dead, you’re dead”.
He voted for the federal marriage amendment so that courts wouldn’t impose “it” on jurisdictions that were voting differently?
Huh? What is “it”–
1) a state domestic partnership law like the one mentioned in Oregon that the state legislature passed (and Smith says he has no problem with)?
Or
2)a judicially-”imposed” (i.e. recognized or protected) equal right to marriage?
I think what he really means is No. 2 above–that nasty, unmentionable right to same-sex marriage–that is what he does not want courts to “impose”
I think when he has to deal with any “gay” issue, whether domestic partnership rights, anti-discrimination, or same-sex marriage–everything gets real fuzzy in his mind and he can’t think clearly or distinguish one from another
BYU-H is an active college in recruiting from all of Polynesia and Melonesia/Micronesia to run the Polynesian Cultural Center… The single biggest Tourist Trap in the Isles for over a decade…! ;-)
Not bad. Texteen is back in Texas and will be back home where he belongs by 9 AM. Probably out with his friends by 9:30 having eaten all my food and kissed
up tothe mama ATM.Hi Betsy and Chris;)
What’s all the hubub about Ethel Mormon?
-G
‘Save us, magic undies!‘
;>)
Happy still-not-Margot-Birthday!
That needs a spew warning sir!
Actually been there. All those smiling Mormons are a bit unnerving. ;-)
FWIW one of my Ph.D. students is a practicing Mormom, though I would not call her devout. We get along fine, though obviously we do not debate theology.
Hey Margot,
What a hellava storm we had at 5:00 today! How are you?
But it’s so soft and cottony, just like his principles.
;>)
My recently deceased Grandma, remarked to my mom, a year ago, that my daughter was the spitting image of Ethel…! ;-)
Well, Mormons believe that when you die go to one of the seven levels of heaven (no hell, a nice feature of their theology). And at the seventh level, you achieve godhood, become an immortal flesh and bone being like our God, and go off and create your own universe. Pretty cool — who wouldn’t like that? However, it does create something of a theological coherency problem, since God is typically conceived of as omnipotent, that is truly all-powerful, and all those other god-beings running around would kinda put a crimp in that.
I was raised non-Mormon in a 70-percent LDS community. Had to perform reconnaissance to survive.
Ditto, but, the Cultural Center is a must see…! They did it right…! ;-)
You’re a braver man than I, but we already established that on other issues.
i had morning sickness one night at the cultural center back when i was pregnant with the bride
Presumably during her pre-bride phase.
Kinda reminds me of Buddhism… Yet, you can regress too… It’s not automatic you rise…! Personally, I think Darth and Shrub will sink like a lead balloon…! ;-)
twas her first trip to hawaii but she didn’t have a window seat and let her presence be known at every inopportune time.
Oh my. I wouldn’t have worded it that way…
-G
See, even way back it was a draw…! (ducking…)
I’m thinking slugs or cockroaches in the next lie. Karma’s a bitch, as the saying goes.
Put them in one, let’s test that theory. Science is an impatient mistress.
;>)
Dugg!
I’m a little slow tonight…
That should be “life”, not “lie” (though it does seem somehow appropriate).
not another chainsaw booboo?
I think that if I were his wife (or significant other) I would not let him near power tools for at least a month.
glad that tent folded: ewwww!
I think that the Founders, steeped in the Age of Reason as they were, believed that one’s religious devotion was a PERSONAL issue, but when one became a REPRESENTATIVE one’s public duty became that of the entire electorate…including even non-believers. Where aspects of devotion to a dogma countered the service to community one had a simple choice…leave politics.
This is something that I wish all those who bandy their religious faith as a hallmark of their superiority to serve should consider. For one thing, to assert one is “better” simply because one is a believer is just downright offensive in a secular sociaety…for another it actually is a statement that one cannot act in certain areas in the best interests of all their constituents.
If a Catholic politician cannot ascertain issues like abortion or homosexual marriage (outside the church), without reference to their Church edicts…then how can we trust them not to deny contraception, sex-education or divorce from non-Catholics. These are equally “sins” before the Church. The same is true of many other religions. I believe that the Catholic Church has several times insisted that Catholic politicians cease supporting legislation that is against Catholic doctrine or be denied communion. Ironically the church has insisted that these “rebels” step out of politics. In fact, the opposite should occur.
Interesting that de Toqueville pointed out that ministers of the Church were forbidden in many states for running for public office when he visited the US. In many other states they were simply not elected. Too many people thought that they would be unable to differentiate between “man’s law” and God’s.
hey kirk
I wish McSame would name Smith his VP nominee. That way the whole country could be exposed to his idiocy, and it could be hung around McSame’s neck
(in a purely decorative, not violent manner)
Exactly. Many of the founders wrote at length of the evils of involving religion in public life and governance (Madison and Jefferson did so quite eloquently).
But they give him support on the dangling issues, while allowing a certain elasticity in the critical middle.
;>)
I am holding out for good old faith healin’, exorcizin’ Bobby Jindal. A little something there for everyone in the Rethug base to hate.
groan!
At least DB didn’t contextualize it with a pic, TB! ;-)
Indeed.
;>)
(Brain bleach, Tuttle)
joey shortride is hoping for the veep slot
no, the finger is recovering fine, and the trauma is gone, but the “How could I be so stoopid!” is still hanging on…
I was temporarily called away from the keyboard by other obligations, thus the “slow” response here
I have discovered that I can type even with one ring finger bandaged…I just pretend the bandage is not there, type away, and clean up any misses…
Now that is a show I would pay to see. 8-)
hey suz!
darkbalck, does the elasticity in the middle help Rethugs go both ways?
glad you are adapting to the bandage
even more glad you were otherwise occupied and that it did not involve a chain saw
~~However, it does create something of a *theological coherency problem*, since God is typically conceived of as omnipotent, that is truly all-powerful, and all those other god-beings running around would kinda put a crimp in that.~~
David, another great observation. As I mentioned, not a lot of “religious education” in my household, when I was growing up.
If one is a religious person, and it gives one personal comfort, then that is fine by me. But that “faith” should not be imposed on others, in any way, shape or form.
Apparently, I spoke too soon…! 8-P
these theocrats seem to forget that a founding principal used by our founding fathers was freedom of religion and freedom from religious prosecution
I imposed my “faith” on my kid until his Bar Mitzvah. He’s now responsible for his own practice and his own beliefs. I’m still here, but a whole lot less is “required”. Don’t impose it on anyone else though.
fork.. principle.. not principal
“If one is a religious person, and it gives one personal comfort, then that is fine by me. But that “faith” should not be imposed on others, in any way, shape or form.”
That is heresy to the Gordon Smiths of the world.
As the good Rabbi Yeshua al Nazarat said, “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”
It is not forgetting, it is deliberate rejection.
you had better spell correctly, Suzanne, or we may have to send you to have a talk with the principal
she’s a mod. she’s the only one who can fix her mistakes!
I have never been able to understand how so many “devout” Christians can so flagrantly ignore that admonition
What would He have thought of TV evangalists, for example?
OT: From HuffPo:
He also said, in direct relation to the issue of separation of church and state, “Then he said to them, ‘Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.’”
but i own up to em since ya’ll don’t have edit anymore
what are ya? honest or somethin?
Because they are not really “Christians”, but rather “Paulists”. Most conservative Christian theology derives from two hallucinatory madmen who never even met Yeshua, Paul and St. John the hallucinator, as well as a highly selective reading of the Old Testament.
I beg to differ, they’ve financed most of Shrub’s credit card spree to the tune of $1.4 Trillion…!
where’d everyone go?
I’m still here, but wondering the same thing.
Pausing to pounce on the Late, Late zed…? ;-)
they’re all competing over a zed?
Present.
Diet coke please. Slice of lemon.
It may help some to stretch their boundaries, I suppose
;>)
But maybe not accounted for.
Suzanne has tunes (and a gettable Zed) upstairs!
Late Late Nite FDL: Midnight Special
Still here, but fading fast.
Goodnight, all. Best of all possible tomorrows to you all.
I also had some problems with that claim. The imbalance of trade is huge, which allows China huge influence in many aspects of the economies of the rest of the world. But the debts those economies (including the U.S.) are very real.
“It’s OK to discriminate against gay people if your pastor told you to do it.”
He doesn’t want a federal judge overruling state laws defining marriage as a hetero thing. Exactly the same defense many Southern politicians used to protect their ‘right’ to hold ‘the nigras’ down.
And as I recall, Jewish people had to sue the Mormon church to stop its practice of claiming dead people (of Jewish and other faiths) had been converted to Mormonism. So he’s arguing that Mormons should be able to define, segregate and discriminate at will and to hell with all the other religions.
That’s why Mormonism seems more kin to radical Islamicism than to most other Christian faiths. Smith is a devout bigot, wedded to the far right Dubya/Cheney neocons and the only moderation he’s ever displayed has occurred during his two year re-election campaigns. The other 4 years, he’s no better than Jesse Helms was, except he’s less verbally abrasive.
And unfortunately, it works with too many moderate Democratic Oregonians. Even now. He’s polling above 50% still and that’s just got to change. Merkley’s a great candidate but he’s going to have an uphill battle all the way to redefine Gordo as the two-faced hater that he is.