[Today is the next installment of the First Monday series in conjunction with Alliance for Justice. We are pleased to have Slate's Dahlia Lithwick here to discuss the recently concluded SCOTUS term and its implications. The Alliance for Justice has put together a comprehensive SCOTUS summary report which you can read here. (PDF) And, with that, please welcome Dahlia -- as always, stay on topic and be polite. Thanks! -- CHS]
First of all I want to thank Christy and the folks at Alliance for Justice for inviting me to participate in this terrific series. For all that the web often serves to fracture and polarize us, I am so happy to be involved in enterprises – like the First Monday series – that try to bring us together to talk.
My topic today is the just-completed October 2007 term at the high court and its implications for the future. We can certainly discuss specific cases and trends if you all want to do that. But what I am most interested in today is the perennial question of whether liberals believe the composition of the court is a voting issue in November, and if they don’t why not?
My own impression, having covered the past two presidential elections is that most liberals simply don’t vote with the composition of the Supreme Court in mind at all, or that it ranks somewhere in their top 14 concerns, but rarely breaks into the top five. There is just no analogue on the political left for the focused, court-obsessed judge-watchers who populate the conservative base and holler “activist judge” every time a decision comes down with which they disagree.
I have some theories for why this is the case but look forward to yours: What the Supreme Court does is so removed from public life; the lag time between a court decision and its effects on the ground can be enormous; the court’s work is shrouded in jargon and secrecy; and despite the advancing years of the court’s liberal wing, it’s very hard to scare voters into caring about the Supreme Court with an election ad that warns:
Some justices may leave the court at some point soon. Some other justices may replace them and those new justices may decide some cases we don’t know about yet. And that might be bad for America.
Far easier to vote for the guy who promises to lower gas prices.
But the real reason liberals don’t seem to worry much about the composition of the high court may simply be that we have been on the winning side of constitutional history for too long. We’re like that frog in the caldron of boiling water who just can’t seem to see how much hotter it’s become in just a few years.
The reason the conservative base is so very angry at the judiciary – decades of Republican appointees steadfastly but inexplicably refusing to overturn Roe v Wade – is the same reason liberals have become so complacent. We take new justices at their word that they won’t disturb settled precedent. We get sucked into the expert claims that the court decides too few cases (only 67 this term!) to really matter, or the characterization of those decisions as humble or narrow, even when many are nothing of the sort. We secretly believe that no matter who departs the court and who replaces them, the Warren-era achievements are somehow frozen in constitutional amber.
Or we forget to take off our Roe-colored glasses – the ones that lead us to think that the only issue that matters with respect to the high court is the right to abortion.
Maybe. Or maybe we have just been snookered into believing that whether we call it the Burger Court, the Rehnquist Court, or the Roberts Court, some secret force will ensure that it’s always a 4-4 court with a “swing justice” in the middle. That ignores the fact that this allegedly divided court is, as Prof. Geoffrey Stone has argued, is comprised of seven justices appointed by Republican Presidents; that each successive swing justice has been markedly more conservative than their predecessor; and that as Stone notes, “four of the current Justices are more conservative than any other Justice who has served on the Court in living memory.”
Justice John Paul Stevens himself has observed that every justice replaced in the past forty years, has been replaced by someone more conservative. Even if these labels – “conservative” and “liberal” are too rough to be truly descriptive when it comes to the cases, it’s hard to deny that the court has lurched to the right with every new appointment. But Democrats don’t seem to notice.
I have argued for a long time that one of the biggest drawbacks in the national debate about the courts is the absence of a really compelling judicial theory for Progressives. It’s so easy for John McCain to bang on about activist judges and strict construction and judicial humility. Even if they are nonsense words, they mean something to his supporters and even his detractors are aware that these terms – while hollow – signify a general principle of constraining unelected judges. But Barack Obama has been less clear and less persuasive in his attempts to explain what he’d like to see in a judge. Perhaps because we lack a crystalline definition of what liberal jurists do and how their decisions can be constrained, we prefer to change the subject when it comes to judicial vacancies and hope things don’t get any hotter.
So my question for you today is why? How might we turn the Court into a voting issue on the left? How do we talk about future justices without being labeled elitist and out-of-touch? And what might we do to change confirmation hearings into a meaningful process for vetting judicial candidates.
Thanks again for having me here today. I look forward to meeting you.
(YouTube above -- the "magic words" argument on issue ads between Toby, Bruno and Sam on West Wing. One of my all-time favorite haggles over issues and the law...and loopholes. -- CHS)
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Dahlia — welcome to FDL, and thanks so much for a provocative post. Looking forward to some good discussion on these issues.
And “Roe-colored glasses” is an instant classic!
Welcome Dahlia!
This is going to be good!
this is me checking out the chat software . . . .
Great to have you here, Dahlia!
Yay — working perfectly! Welcome!
Good morning, Dahlia. Is it just me, or do currents Dems just seem spineless, self-interested and weak? For me the idea that John McCain would be in position to propose furture justices is horrifying, but I just don’t see the liberals standing up. Any ideas on how to spine-ify them? FDL certainly has folks who believe SCOTUS is a parmount issue.
Welcome Dahlia!
Jus Cogens!
thank you. Its truly great to be here
Dahlia, this is a perennial question for me as well — given, especially, the labor and employment track record of this Court (hello, Ledbetter), and so many other decisions on civil liberties that has been razor thin in terms of margins and analysis — how can this not be a huge electoral issue?
And why can’t we seem to get more discussion on the Court outside of Roe? It is as if that is the simple, shorthand area of discussion for most of the media outside the few reporters who cover the Court more broadly. Is that why, do you think? The lack of an in-depth understanding of a lot of this?
I agree that the future of the S Ct should be an issue in every election, and it rarely is, except to the extent that Roe is an issue. But it doesn’t help that our Democratic candidate, himself a former constitutional law professor, has been so unhelpful (some might say wrong) in elucidating the recent court decisions. Whether or not he has a coherent theory of judging, or judicial selection, he could say constructive things that help the public to think about the role of the courts. Instead, he’s been like a cheerleader–I like that one. The other one, not so much. I would have hoped for a lot better.
Agreed! We’re so excited you could chat with us today!
I was wondering how much of the disconnect between progressives and the courts, as an issue, stems from the successful framing of the issue by conservatives over the past three decades.
I think we’re all aware that the term “activist judges” rings pretty hollow when conservatives on the Court are just as willing (if not more so) to set aside settled precedent as even the most liberal of justices. And despite the fact that the vast majority of federal judges have been appointed by Republican presidents, the myth persists - that our judiciary is somehow consistently liberal.
Any thoughts?
I think the problem for most liberals/progressives is that we really do believe somehow that when one becomes a judge, one leaves one’s own petty political and social positions and philosophies behind. And, what we’ve seen from the current crop of Bush/Cheney people (who swore up and down that they’d hold with stare decisis) is a) they lied in the hearings and b) they left nuthin’ behind. Shame on us for being so naive.
Hi there Dearie. I am not sure Dems are “spineless, self-interested and weak” exactly, but I do think we have a wicked case of Patty Hearst syndrome when it comes to conservative criticism of the liberal judicial project. We are totally in love with our attackers. Faced with the choice of defending latte-sipping Ivy League elitist judges, or piling on in the battle against them, we all-too-often opt for silence. We’ve been (not YOU FDL) silent on FISA, silent during some of Bush’s confirmation battles in the lower courts, and (I believe) completely complicit in the liberal defection on gun control. I don’t know why we’d rather be the badasses than the defenders of the little guy. I am hoping someone can enlighten me . . .
What I find fascinating, truly (and as a lapsed Catholic, I get to talk about the culto) is that 5 of the nine are RCatholics. Why does this get so little publicity? I think that if the evangelicals and, frankly, all others were actually aware of this odd discrepency then maybe there would be more attention to the make up of the court. Just musing.
Well…as for “Roe-colored glasses”, any SCOTUS judge who uphold Roe is also likely to uphold privacy rights generally, and by extension, be pretty solid on the 4th Amendment. They are also unlikely to be goofy on habeas corpus, torture, and other issues. So, if you simply focus on a judge that would uphold Roe (and the candidate you can count on offering judges of that type) then you automatically cover a lot of other ground.
Of course, on some issues you may get skunked: gun control. Hopefully, the recent SCOTUS position that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right to own a gun will prevent any heavy backsliding on that issue (I’m a liberal gun owner, and though I am no NRA member nor a hunter…from my dead fingers bi-otch!). You get a judge that goes for cutting into that right and you feed a fire on the other side that burns VERY hot and serves to feed the GOP.
Not JUST run-of-the-mill everyday Catholics. Opus Dei Catholics.
Dahlia, welcome to FDL.
You have reached one spot on the web where libruls congregate that realizes the composition of the SCOTUS (and all the lesser courts as well) is of utmost importance and will drive our voting in November.
I am among those not at all enamored with Senator Obama but who recognize that what we do not need are more Scalia/Thomas/Alito/Roberts types being placed on any of the Federal courts, much less SCOTUS. I think we have quite enough Federalist Society members as judges right now to serve out lifetime appointments. They seem to meld the Constitution around some serious hoops jumping.
Thanks for coming by Dahlia. Huge fan here–I only read you and Fred Kaplan over there these days.
The real thing I am concerned about is the way the corporate wing of the party, the part that actually gets elected to office, is using social issues to recreate the courts of the teens and twenties, with a soupcon of executive authoritarianism added to the anti-worker, anti-consumer policy position. That mission seems to have been accomplished, with justices who will be in place for a very long time. It being a very bad time for this to be so, what with all the climate scientists saying “Oh my. We were far too conservative,” is there anything we can do? FDR couldn’t pack the court. Could we? Can justices be removed for bad reasons?
Spineless is a good word to describe the antics of the Democratic party. As much as I hate to credit conservatives for anything, they certainly know how to stick to their guns. Just last week, Obama pandered to a “moderate” base through his support of faith-based initiatives. Why are the Courts not an issue for us– an inability to stay on message???
One of the things that I found most fascinating about the Jan Crawford Greenberg book on the SCOTUS was that inner glimpse of so much of the outside groups working those “activist court” angles from the Federalist Society and beyond. And how much money and effort was put behind those groups purposefully for that long-term branding and sifting through judicial candidates to find people who would actively seek to undermine prior decision underpinnings and precedents — precisely to actively change the law’s direction.
And yet, people on our side of the aisle are branded “activists.” The sad fact is that this sort of chutzpah has worked to a large degree because people don’t bother to check facts outside of vague bits they learn from interviews and such — and that’s partially because we’ve been so ineffective at pushing back on it, sad to say.
This is such a good point, about how the discussion over Roe has almost obliterated the very real effects on the ground of other blockbuster decisions — Ledbetter for sure but also voluntary school integration, campaign funding, free speech in schools, government takings, religious expression on government land . . . I could go on and on about the real-life consequences of recent scotus decisions and yet they never seem to filter out to the public. (Ledbetter was actually a rare exception and I think the blowback from Ledbetter spooked some of the justices this term). I once heard Prof Pam Karlan suggest that Dems should do a MUCH better job playing up the real world consequences of SCOTUS decisions.
Hi, Dahlia. Longtime reader, first time chatter (grin.)
I agree with your assessment that progressives lack a coherent judicial philosophy and add the proviso that we lack such a philosophy and the ability to condense it into an elevator speech that will appeal to the moderates who will ultimately decide the election. Progressives work with some urgency based on the Supreme Court, plus lots of other issues, but while we are able make appeals to the middle on some of our issues (corruption is bad, war is bad, etc.), we don’t do well when it comes to the Court.
As you say, the first step is a coherent internal philosophy, but a necessary second step is working that philosophy into talking points with broad appeal.
garland July 7th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
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Spineless is a good word to describe the antics of the Democratic party
I really think you need to consider that these are the policies that many Democrats want. Hoyer’s work to gut FISA wasn’t caving. It was pro-active, it was directed, it was secret and it was effective.
ooops — misspelled Jan’s last name, it’s Greenburg. And here’s the link to that book salon, in case folks are interested.
I’m not sure that what we really want is to point out that imbalance to evangelicals, as they tend to pay plenty of attention already. They are, afterall, generally the ones objecting to pro-choice and pro-gay rights decisions - lambasting so-called “activist judges”. Can you imagine evangelicals calling for more, say Southern Baptist nominees to balance otu the dominant Roman Catholics? Not a particularly attractive scenario…
Greetings Dahlia, welcome to the Lake;
While it may be true that many ‘liberals’ and ‘progressives’ might not be interested in SCOTUS, here, at the lake, you will find the denizens most interested indeed.
Americans generally have little grasp of the power of SCOTUS to affect, for good or ill, their lives, their fortunes, and even their ‘honor’, owing probably to a lack of ‘grounding’in both history and civics.
Undoubtedly, the coming Great Depression will preoccupy many over the next several years, but eventually, one hopes, a deeper, more profound interest in all three branches of government (’Barnacle’ notwithstanding) shall emerge.
Thanks for visiting with us and I eagerly anticipate a rousing and educationally stimulating ’session’ here, today.
;~D
What does it mean, that Justices were “spooked” after Ledbetter?
I am (down to) voting for Barak only because of the SCOTUS.
I think a lot of Americans (including those on the “left”) have forgotten and/or abandoned the Constitution and the whole notion of checks and balances.
Fear works and so does being “too busy” to vote or stay informed.
(and no, what passes for “news” on teevee does not count! as a matter of fact, it is a big contributor to the dumbing of America)
do you see any chance that Obama, as president, might “reach across the aisle” and make a “nonpartisan” [conservative Republican Constitution-hater)S. Ct. appointment to “stop the partisan bickering in Washington”? that would not be change I could believe in.
Dahlia, to what extent to think the “Daschle effect” has influenced the willingness of Democrats to go to the mat on judicial nominees?
Jan had an excellent article on the same topic Dahlia is speaking to:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/legal.....nding.html
It must be Stockholm Syndrome, because I’d hate to think our leaders are almost to a one so desperately out of step with what ordinary people in this country think.
And welcome, Dahlia. So good to have you here.
I am not sure that much happens at those hearings that would give liberals much to attack with in the first place. They are stagey and pointless and if the nominee can simply decline to answer an ever-expanding set of questions (nothing on past cases, nothing on future cases, nothing on anything that could be of any predictive value . . . ) the liberals are left to huff and puff. Liberals are in may ways still fighting the last war. We keep hoping to re-litigate the Robert Bork confirmation (candidate hisses and spits like horror-movie character). But we will never get another “gotcha” like that and we havent really evolved a better strategy. We focus on whether the candidate belonged to some nasty club 30 years ago or wrote something stupid when he worked in the Executive Branch. That is not the way to scuttle a judicial nomination. Maybe there isn’t a way to scuttle a judicial nomination anymore.
Spineless when it comes to voting on judges, though. Why is it so hard for Democrats to stand up and say they won’t confirm someone who thinks it’s okay to use racial slurs, for instance? Because they might be called “obstructionists??” So??? If, as everyone points out, the judiciary isn’t a hot issue for progressives, being called the o-word isn’t really going to hurt them. Who exactly are they worried about, anyway?
Yeah, but So.Baptists are so anti-Catholic (in my personal experience) that if they did some active yapping, it might bring the issue to the fore. The Dems sure aren’t doing much. I wonder, as others have mentioned, why there does not seem to be any coherent Democratic ‘vision’ or ‘philosophy’ — I just don’t get the inability to create a path to follow to a place to be.
When we had Erwin Chemerinsky on a few months ago for First Monday, he made a point of asking why the presidential candidates of both parties had not been asked about — or had not fully addressed on their own — the enormous executive power grabs made by the Bush Administration. And had not addressed how to re-balance government in terms of accountability and checks on unilateral executive power. Perhaps it isn’t in the nature of a Presidential candidate to do so, given that person aspires to the office as well, but it is a discussion that has come up any number of times over the past few terms in the SCOTUS.
And I wonder if that isn’t something else we ought to push into the national conversation on this as well? Especially given that McCain has been very blunt about wanting justices who would make similar decisions to those made by Roberts and Alito — which have, for the most part — been anti-transparency, anti-accountability, anti-anything that would rein in executive power vis a vis the other branches, with a few exceptions to that rule coming only recently.
I think you are right, Dahlia, that the blowback on Ledbetter rattled the windows a bit at the Court. Good, I say — a reality check from below the ivory tower can be a very good thing. And so can a pissed off Justice Ginsberg, I’d wager…
I once mentioned the fact that there were five Catholics on the court on a radio interview. No judgment affixed. Merely an observation of fact on the changing demographic. The mail claiming anti-Catholic bias was breathtaking. I have never mentioned it again.
See? The system works.
That was a fantastic article that Jan did — thanks for the reminder on it!
I sure agree with you, angie! Let’s face it, rule by majority means that in order to be elected, a candidate must appeal to a lot of voters who are either ignorant, stupid or apathetic, as well as to informed and intelligent voters. That’s probably a flaw in any democracy. Wish I had a proposal to improve it, but I don’t.
Welcome to the Lake, Dahlia!
My question is this– what the heck can we do?
First of all, will the next President get to pick any Supremes?
–OK, the answer is probably yes.
Second, assuming Obama is president, will he (a) want to or (b) actually nominate a liberal?
Third, if Obama attempts to nominate a liberal, will the remaining Conservatives in Congress Bork him?
In short, the time for action is when the situation arises. Right now, that possibility seems too remote to take effective action.
Bob in HI
Yep - obviously, lying is not enough for impeachment(after all, Bush/Cheney/et al. have been lying for almost 8 years on an continuous basis and this has not caused the House to impeach them either)and I doubt that Roberts, Alito, et al. would want to leave the playing field, given the bully pulpit they’ve been given by the current regime.
To be fair, though, there have been a number of judicial appointments and others that have been blocked outright — that never even got to the confirmation hearing stage but whose nominations were withdrawn. Several of them were folks whose involvement was uncovered in the USAtty purge, others were involved in other political scandals in other ways.
There hasn’t been a full out fillibuster, but there have been successful take-downs of nominations done on particularly egregious ones over the last few years. A few so bad that they were helped out the door by GOP members of the Senate judiciary committee. But they have been truly egregious nominations — nothing that even this petulant White House was willing to go to the mat on.
I am working on a piece right now in which I try to understand how it is that Obama — a Harvard Law Review President and Constitutional law professor — has chosen to flee to the right almost singularly on constitutional issues. If I get it done the lede will be something like “In a week of moving to the middle Sen. Obama managed to yank the First, Second, Fourth and Eight Amendments with him. Impressive.” Seriously, I can’t quite see why someone with such a sophisticated view of the Bill of Rights would cave or triangulate on guns, the death penalty, the warrant requirement and speech in the span of a week.
What role, if any, Dahlia, do you consider that the media’s clear disinterest in delving to any depth regarding ‘affairs’ SCOTUS, has upon the attention span of the general public regarding ‘interest’ in the COURT and its doings?
NPR hit the nail on the head this morning. A vote for McCain will shift the court to the far right for decades to come. A vote for Obama will give us a chance to maintain the delicate balance that already exists. We have to come up with a strategy to ensure a victory this fall and beyond. Real “change” on the Court will take some time and a lot of public education. Where should we start, Dahlia?
I would think it should be scuttled by going over their past rulings and writings, as well as what groups they affiliate with. There is nothing at all that says a senator must OK a justice if they are “too conservative” or do not represent the beliefs and wishes of the people that voted a given senator into office in the first place. All that matters is the senator consent or not - and the reason to NOT consent need not be some horrible past act or statement on the part of the nominee. Hell, it could be because the nominee acts like he/she has a stick up his/her butt.
I strongly disagree with Feingold on this: the President is NOT entitled to appoint anyone he/she wants to an office. Since the Constitution requires the consent of the Senate, they can, and should, say “no” for cause as seems fitting. Any claim to comity in this went out the window with Frist’s threats to “go nuclear” on judges and the filibuster. As far as I’m concerned, and as far as the Dems in the Senate should be concerned, THAT was the end of any forbearance for the Prez, especially when that person is of the opposite party.
My question is, why WOULDN’T a President Obama want to/actually appoint a liberal? What on earth could he be afraid of (that’s worse than the conservative path the Court could simply continue on)??
Nicely put, Praedor.
can’t wait to read your analysis of obama’s hard right turn (i wouldn’t call it a move to middle - rather a move from the middle). i still have whiplash.
Does he have a sophisticated view of the bill of rights? Maybe the most shocking to me was the LA death penalty case: “If Louisiana wants to impose the death penalty for child rapists, we should let them.” How about if Louisiana wanted to impose the death penalty for interracial marriage? Would that be ok too? Since when was the Constitution a majoritarian document?
Have there ever been SC Justices who became MORE conservative on the court? It seems it generally (Alito/Thomas notwithstanding) that the views become more tolerant over time.
Good points all Bob. To your first question Justice Stevens is 88. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is nearly 80 and David Souter has been pretty open about being ready to stick a fork in it and head back to New Hampshire. I dont think anyone doubts there will be vacancies and liberal vacancies in the coming years (Stevens hired his clerks for the 09 term last week tho!) (Amen).
I think Obama has signaled that he is willing to be more moderate on the issue of judges than we’d have expected a few weeks back. This is esp. fascinating in light of McCain’s willingness to recycle the Federalist Society’s talking points right down the line (signalling that judges are an issue he will just hand to the base).
Also I think that Obama — like Clinton before him — will be more focused on having a court that LOOKS like America (more women, Asians, hispanics, people with disabilities) than a court that hews to any strict liberal doctrine. In other words he will not put Roberts’ or Alito’s judicial counterparts on the front burner. He may well put a moderate Hispanic or women there instead. Thoughts on whether that is better or worse for Progressives?
Does conservative justice, mean that people have no rights, just companies have rights? For example that woman who sued “too late” to get equal pay.
Given that McCain has said he would appoint judges like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito (never mind that the four hardly were cast from the same mold), even a moderate would be a welcome alternative.
Don’t forget Thomas. He hasn’t budged. He is also so silent that you can’t tell if his misanthropism and mysogeny has grown even deeper and nastier or if it was at its limits upon his appointment.
I wouldn’t say “a number” of judicial appointments have been blocked. In fact, other than the four nominees withdrawn in January 2007 who couldn’t even get confirmed by a Republican-controlled Senate, I can only recall ONE nominee who has been withdrawn. Since the Dems took over in the 110th Congress, they haven’t stopped stopped a single judicial nominee. Even the one withdrawn (Getchell) was due to opposition by his Republican home state senator!
It seems like Thomas is just there to give Scalia a second vote.
It would be interesting to have Obama answer that question directly, estelle, it is so ‘hot’ it sizzles, and he SHOULD, as a Constitutional ’scholar’, be called on it.
I would be very curious to hear his response.
The more moderate conservatives Samuel Alito and (in one case) John Roberts voted with the liberals in a pair of employee discrimination cases this term that are pretty hard to square with their positions in Ledbetter last year. On paper they were just following stare decisis — the doctrine that old precedent actually counts for something — while Clarence Thomas and Scalia would just eviscerate old cases. But I wonder if the huge outcry after Ledbetter and the incredible congressional effort to actually FIX the problem caused by SCOTUS played any role in their decision to change sides to help out an employee this term . . . Just speculating
What he would be afraid of is that the Republicans would tie up the confirmation process in knots, and prevent the confirmation of any Liberal.
That said, I think Obama might be more able to get a Liberal on the bench than anyone else. If Hillary were president, the Republicans would fight her tooth and nail, no matter who she nominated.
So I hope that when he gets the chance, Obama will nominate a carefully vetted Liberal, cleverly disguised as something else.
Bob in HI
I don’t know if there has ever been a Justice who is worse in all ways than Thomas. He is one truly miserable being.
that’s why the supreme court is not that big an issue for me in this presidential race - as it was for me in 2000 and 2004. well, that and that i expect we’ll have a democratic majority in the senate. so if the dems do care about the court they are in the position to do something about it. and if they don’t care, there’s not much my vote will change.
guess i’m completely out of step.
This may be a symptom of a fundamental problem — that conservative activists pay more attention to the actions of the personnel on the Court than liberals do. Case in point. Thomas is in fact far more conservative than Scalia. If, for example, he authored Heller the gun right would be expressed in much broader terms than Scalia’s uncharacteristically chatty minimalism.
isnt it fascinating that when they ask to name their poster-boy justices McCain names Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito while Obama names Stevens Breyer and Ginsburg. I think that poor Anthony Kennedy — swing justice to the stars — must be feeling pretty rotten about that.
Any comment about the evening news they almost never cover a SC ruling.
If I had to rely on the evening news, I would not even know that was a SC.
has thomas ever written an opinion or dissent? or asked a question during oral arguments?
The Dems will either need to have a filibuster-proof majority to stop GOP filibusters of any reasonable nominee, or be willing to pull out Frist’s “nuclear option” and pull some turnabout.
I’m all for the latter. They (the GOP) CAN’T be allowed to pull that crap with impunity. They must be made, at the appropriate time, to see that what is good for the goose…
Well, I do think that the Southwick nomination stands as a signature example of what not to do. *g*
More guns, less crime.
Ask the English about their home invasion problems.
4X worse in England than in the States.
Thomas has stated that it is not his belief that SCOTUS judges should ask questions. He believes that they are just supposed to sit there, listen to the arguments, then decide (based upon their personal prejudices, damn the arguments…though this last part is left unsaid).
Actually Thomas has done a rather impressive job of carving out his own truly radical form of conservative doctrine that (at least in some ways) would leave Scalia’s in the dust. And Scalia has said that Thomas doesnt believe in precedent at all! (Hard to see where Scalia does but . . .)
Jan argues in her book that Thomas has actually exerted more intellectual influence on Scalia than the other way ’round. Not certain I agree to that degree but its certainly true that Thomas has established an intellectual architecture that — much as you may disagree with it — is both distinctive and intellectually sound.
OK, everyone forgive me for getting too inside baseball but . . . Kennedy earned the eternal ire of conservatives for citing international practices in death penalty decisions. Notice what was missing in Kennedy v. Louisiana?
So, yeah, I think he does pay attention to what folks are saying about him.
I have not heard or read anything about the ruling last week on the necessity of facing one’s accuser. I thought that one seemed to favor detainees at GITMO. Am I incorrect?
5-4….that’s what makes my vote go pitapat.
I am mad as a hornet about OB and FISA, but 5-4 says it all to me.
America and the Constitution hang by a heartbeat in a 75ish woman and an 86ish man.
scary.
An important event in the confirmation process that has not been mentioned in the comments yet is the role of the “nuclear option” and the “Gang of 14” in the confirmation process. Would the nomination of a Liberal provoke a similar “gang of 14″ to oppose confirmation?
Bob in HI
Dahlia;
You seem rather unimpressed with the ‘myths’ surrounding the Court, and even a bit ‘hard’ in your assessment of individual judicial ‘behavior’.
Good on you!
I like it!
What sort of ‘feedback’ , if any, do you receive from on high?
Just curious.
You’re right of course.
As for the rest of the breaking “news” (decisions by the Court), it’s just breathless folks posing in front of the Court relaying soundbytes that are swallowed and carried away by the prevailing winds.
(except the GUN ruling– that people seemed to care about.)
My point EXACTLY. With that many Democrats voting for Southwick, you wonder what it would take to get them to actually oppose a nomination for a lifetime appointment.
I can think of Felix Frankfurter who got more conservative over time. Byron “Whizzer” White, nominated by Kennedy, also swung right on certain social issues (gay rights most notably).
As for reform of the senate consent process, not much room there to maneuver because nominees can dissemble with impunity about adherence to precedent and the like, and actual perjurious statements are not the norm. Post-Bork, they’ve all gotten better about smiling while lying through their teeth.
We do need reform to require the Court to televise its oral proceedings — if you can show it, the media will come and report it. This would help somewhat in better informing the public about this most secretive of the three branches.
I would also prefer the Con be amended (not likely though in the near future) to limit all fed judges, including Sup Ct ones, to 12 years on the bench. It’s easily the most unaccountable branch of gov’t, with impeachment very rare, even with hundreds of federal judges.
If Hilary were younger, I would favor her on the Supreme Court. But you cant win at judicial roulette if the Goopers pick 40-somethings who reign for two score and more, and the Dems pick poeple about to go on Social Security.
Thomas has also carved out a niche in nurturing up and coming conservative lawyers and jurists as his clerks. From whence we get such shining lights as Laura Ingraham. *g*
Dahlia, I’d say the answer to your first question might revolve around the growing awareness of the courts in general. The left is increasingly aware of the importance of the courts because of the Gitmo detainee and habeas corpus cases, the debates over the FISA Court, and the overall need for someone to be able to restrain an overarching executive branch since Congress seems unwilling to do so.
Dahlia, what do you think of the NPR analysis this morning that put great emphasis on the narrowness of the “Conservative” victories of the past term. For example, the decision supporting Voter ID laws rested on the lack of demonstrated injury to legitimate voters, and if a case were brought demonstrating such a problem, the court could swing in the other direction. Or so Nina Totenberg sez.
Do you see any likelihood of other cases coming up that not only allege voter disenfranchisement, but demonstrate it clearly?
Bob in HI
angie I do think that Americans have been absolutely checked out at the encroachments on their privacy in recent years; as though privacy is a sort of sweet peacetime luxury. I had an amazing chat with one of my colleagues at Slate last week (on the Slate gabfest) wherein he said that he didnt much care if the government spied on him without a warrant since he wasn’t doing anything wrong.
I am making him reread Orwell.
But I can’t help but believe that we are asleep at the switch on FISA in particular because we almost don’t value true privacy anymore. In England every time you burp its captured on a camera. Perhaps we will happily acede to the same arrangement in the interest of safety . . .
Your friend is a liar. He IS doing something wrong, somewhere. In any case, all you need tell him is that what is illegal can change in a day and what is perfectly fine today, and normal for him, can suddenly become illegal and unacceptable tomorrow.
The way in which we talk about current judges in the lower courts might be a good place to start. For example, the work done by Christy, Looseheadprop, Emptywheel, and others here at FDL during the Libby trial went a long way toward showing how one judge (Reggie Walton) goes about his work, including how he deals with motions, how he views precedent, and how he gives deference to (or refuses to give deference to) the greater executive branch on matters of executive privilege, classified information, etc.
The Libby trial discussions here could be a primer for talking about judges in general.
The Justices I have met have been unfailingly polite and one or two say they actually appreciate the levity. I truly do believe in the courts and the Rule of Law and I am a sucker for the promise of an anti-majoritarian court that looks out for the little guy. I don’t want to give the impression that I think the courts are a big joke. But I do fear that when we cover them as reverently and sometimes unquestioningly as we do, we blind ourselves to the naked politics and horse-trading that also goes on. Is it possible to believe both that the court is a political and self-serving institution and also to tear up at some of the language in Boumedienne? I dunno. I try.
Homeland Security is providing cameras to US cities. I guess the city has to provide a small percentage of the money for cameras, then HS provides the rest. I am sure some camera companies are receiving the benefit of this lovely policy.
Have you checked out the oral arguments available at Oyez? You can listen to the arguments there for a lot of the cases, including a number of the big ones. The only recording that isn’t allowed in federal courts is a television camera — and, I have to say given the circus atmosphere that can follow them, I’m not exactly pushing for them at SCOTUS or elsewhere. (Maybe it’s just because the OJ Simpson case continues to leave a very bad taste in a lot of lawyers’ mouths…but that is still how far too many people think legal work is done. Blech!)
*sigh*
not even illegal. i was radicalized when i attended a silent peace vigil in early 2002. the police can and photographed us in order to id us (the chief of police told the city council we were a potential threat to society). this is in MA.
i’ve never looked a privacy the same way.
Or, more likely, deeply misguided.
“How might we turn the Court into a voting issue on the left?”
We on the left could start by not letting the Court disregard legal principles and decide presidential elections by acting in clearly politically partisan ways, such as with Bush v Gore.
We all sat back, or most of us, and rather meekly accepted that outrage. Or were encouraged to politely accept it by nice guy Al Gore.
Had a liberal Dem Court done this to a Repub candidate for president, the Right and the Repubs would have been up in arms (uh, almost literally) and out in the streets. In fact, a 5-Justice Dem Court never would have granted cert knowing full well the full-throated response it would engender on the Right.
Liberals are much too nice, much too willing to believe only the best about all sorts of people.
Dahlia;
You skate very closely to the appearance of possessing considerable scorn for the ’safety-security’ mantra.
As your comments progress through the thread, I’m convinced you are one of ‘us’.
Take care.
The court IS a voting issue on the left.