Earlier today, Matt Yglesias mused about how Richard Nixon's illegal acts caused him to be forced out of office, while any suggestion of such accountability for Dubya's flagrant disregard for the law (for instance, regarding FISA and torture) has been marginalized or ignored as "lunatic" extremism.
Atrios offered an explanation that the Republican establishment is simply stronger now than it was then (to the point where it "is almost indistinguishable" from the Washington, D.C. establishment), but Kevin Drum took a different tack:
I agree that the David Broders of the world have been far too sanguine about the abuses of the Bush administration. At the same time, the difference here really is pretty obvious. Nixon broke the law repeatedly for purely political purposes: to help his friends, punish his enemies, and keep tabs on domestic groups he happened to personally dislike. There was no ideological dispute about the value of what Nixon did . . .
In contrast, Drum says, Bush's lawbreaking was ideologically based:
He approved torture of prisoners and violated FISA because he genuinely thought it was necessary for national security reasons after 9/11 — and unfortunately, lots of people agreed with him at the time and continue to agree with him today. I too wish there were a broader consensus that Bush has acted illegally and ought to held accountable, but the fact that he hasn't met Nixon's fate doesn't really say all that much about how tolerant we are of executive lawbreaking. Ideological disputes are simply a different kettle of fish than personal vendettas.
Kevin is already in the middle of a severe beatdown from his commenters for this claim, but I think he's partially right, although he doesn't grasp the exact reason why.
The whole "unitary executive" claptrap and all the other pseudo-ideological manure put out by the Bushites is simply a flimsy fig leaf over the kind of naked power grab Nixon thought was his right (indeed, Kevin seems to have forgotten that Tricky Dick tried to use "national security" as an excuse, too).
The difference now is that the petty political vendettas pursued by Nixon have been raised to the level of ideology by the modern GOP. Unrestrained use of power for its own sake is their sine qua non, their raison d'etre (and probably a bunch of other foreign phrases, too). Whatever interest they used to feign in the common good, they've dropped that particular mask now.
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Jus Cogens!
Great post, Swopa. I agree with you about the difference. Power for power’s sake - that really ugly.
But this naked power grab is different, see?
Permanent Republican Majority. And the Dems could not have cared less. Even in the minority they were part of the game. Being pawns suited them just fine and long as they got some of the scraps.
If memory serves me “national security” was the hook used to justify breaking into Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist’s office, the H2Ogate break-ins, surveilling Martin Luther King and all the various peace groups and all the other cr*p pulled by J Edgar and the FBI and CIA back in the ’50s adn ’60s.
Same shit, different day, same cast of players.
edit - fine
andas longPreview is mah fren
Yep.
The difference is simple. The national political structure, both parties, are much more corrupt than they were in 1973.
These guys make Tammany Hall look like a bunch an amateurs.
Simply put,the media flogged the corrupt Nixon administration daily…Booooshie,feeds em BARBRQUE and all is well
Bingo…old AVIS line were #2 so we cave harder
What made Tammany Hall sucessful was that, contrary to today’s national politicos, they actually provided services for the poor folks in their constituencies.
It’s ideological alright. But the ideology is to enrich a very few people. The rest of us are SOL. And the S is hitting the fan pretty hard already and will get much worse.
I’m not smart enough to know if the media was a corporate whore in Nixon’s day. Also Nixon just oozed slime while Bush just oozes stupidity (he keeps the real slime peddlars in the background —- I’m pointing at you, Darth Cheeeeeny.)
Uh, no. Remember NYT & WaPo’s roles in publishing Pentagon Papers? Also, back in the daze when Woodward & Bernstein were real investigative reporters?
The current crop would say that they’re doing the same thing by enlisting the poor into the military. They’ll leave out the “to fight their imperialistic wars” part, though. Leave no rock, er, talking point, unturned, they will.
Not all of them - remember that Woodward and Bernstein were Metro desk and not National. A lot of the national level reporters during H2Ogate were just as much sheep as they are today. Wasn’t it Joe Alsop who first used the “third rate burglary” phrase and kept trying to downplay it?
Apparently getting your buddies great paying government gigs or getting their company’s great paying no bid government contracts is now considered to be ideological.
I think the nation has reached a critical mass of mental incapacity.
-G
The poor have always been cannon fodder.
Came across this in my logs today:
The Freedom of Information Act and the Ecology of Transparency
osd.mil http://www.google.com/search?h.....&sa=N
This crew could spin even that fact.
Having 9/11 accelerated the Rethug power grab. They would have worked on it without 9/11, Rove and his 1000 Year Republican Reich.
To be sure. Nor are all of today’s reporters sheep. The big diff is that corporate media do not showcase the anti-W evidence. Media back in the day were better at that.
Karl Rove=Joseph Gerbils
that is what i said at 10
Rove wishes he as was sharp as Goebbels.
LOL!
Sorry not to give credit. I’m multitasking (loading a library audio book onto my iPOD), so I missed you comment.
Goebbels 10 year plan for his family wasn’t exactly a slice of brilliance.
-G
There was also the advantage that Spiro was run out of town on a rail before they went after Nixon. Hence our dear Gerry Ford as Prez. Nixon really really did not want to hand the office over to Ford.
A lot of things are different: the media, our public indifference to scandal, 9/11, DINOs, Diebold, etc.
I can’t believe I see “I support Waterboarding” tee shirts though :( I was hoping our support for human rights would still be here…
It helped tons that Kate Graham was well ensconced in the Dem Party…
When Drum gets something right, it’s by accident. His analyses rarely hold water
not important,i blame our media for most of the countries woes….despickable,we could have avoided so much of this ALL..if they were opn OUR side,and not just prostitutes
COMFORT THE AFFLICTED,and AFFLICT THE COMFORTABLE
you betcha.
No, but his propaganda skills were considerable. Morally corrupt and pure evil.
Sounds strangely familiar….
kinda the same MO as Rove…ugly little turd,who was anti-social,and bullied
I also think civility has really gone down the tubes in the past forty years. It made Nixon unseemly to be scowling at people. And I think folks really cared more about their public reputation and honor a bit more. We are so In Your Face now and “what’dya gonna do about it” than ever before.
fwiw.
This should be the entire article on the neocons in the encyclopedia.
Neoconservative. Morally corrupt and pure evil. Blows dead goats.
I’m convinced that Rove studied the Nazi rise to power very carefully, then used it as a model.
Unrestrained use of power for its own sake is their sine qua non, their raison d’etre (and probably a bunch of other foreign phrases, too).
Yep.
coup d’etat
Let’s call them for what they are — traitors to the United States Constitution
im sure of it….Rummy and Darth too
Scarborough and Maddow having a pretty good set to on MSNBC..Seems to be a clear case of two people who really hate each other- pretty entertaining.
these peeps are very very ILL
Me too.
I’m convinced that Rove studied the Nazi rise to power very carefully, then used it as a model.
Looks that way to me.
9/11 = Reichstag fire
off topic i know … but is anyone watching MSNBC now? i am boiling at the gang-up on rachel maddow by the 4 wingers!! i know all the bosses have left for the holiday but i want to call somebody and complain!!i need a phone # for the boss….
Scar doesn’t stand a chance. This guy would be unarmed in a battle of wits with a 4 year old.
Well maybe- but he might have learned the lesson in a lot of other places in history as well.
He lost the fuckin 2000 election and got saved by SCOTUS- then he was headed into the toilet with the presidency he won until he got saved again by Bin Laden.
I don’t find Rove to be a genius.
Joe Scar has only one potential positive to his name; when he proclaimed that he believed in self-imposed term limits and would only serve three terms I believe it was, he actually kept his word.
Rachel keeps laughing at him and he is PISSED- invokes “votes” to determine who is right. Funny as hell.
No, he’s an adapter. If you read the first 200 pages of Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich the similarity of methodology stands out. He hasn’t done anything original. He’s studied extensively and adapted the methods into his plan.
It worked out so well in Germany that he thought he would try it here. Holy shit!!!
Think of the most sick and criminal ways to preserve political power and Republicans will trump that. It’s their code or something.
I also have listened to a college course on Hitler’s Empire & there too the similarities of techniques between Hitler & Rove stands out. The course was excellent.
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/co.....px?cid=805
Is Rove a big policy wonk? His focus seems more on getting people into power and using situations as they arise to strengthen that power. The consequences don’t figure into his calculations. I’d be surprised if he could find Irak on a map.
Thanks for that link. I think that’ll be 15 bucks well spent.
I’ve listened to it 3 or 4 times. Childers is really very good. You’re right about money well spent.
I think one of the problems is that today, the News division of any Media company is forced to organize as a business, rather than as a public service. This has had two bad consequences: First, it has forced “News” to become “Infotainment”. Half of the regular features on “Countdown,” for example, have almost no news value. One of my nephews says he gets all his news from the Colbert Report.
Second, linked to the first, is that almost every news division of almost every media company in the country is cutting its budget, and reducing the number of people who do any real reporting. Except for the Big Ones, most newspapers across the country offer little more than stenographic services, and they regularly publish publicity releases as news, without doing any fact checking or editing, simply because they don’t have the time to do even journalism 101. Making money is more important than fact checking.
I also notice the graying of the news. Jim Lehrer, Tom Brokaw, Bob Schieffer, Morley Safer and others were all fine reporters in their day, but they have all become contented establishment mouthpieces now. They have been thoroughly domesticated, having drunk the Beltway Kool-aid for too long.
The phrase “Bread and Circuses” comes to mind.
Rachel Maddow is a fresh face with an agile mind, but at MSNBC she, too, has to perform the dog and pony show that Countdown has become, paying homage to the entertainment features that have become established.
Bob in HI
Clusterfuck put him in charge of policy- which guaranteed that every policy decision would be political first….that is likely a prejudice that Rove and Clusterfuck share.
Maybe Mao and China, too. After all, their torture playbook was borrowed from studies of Asian torture.
Bob in HI
No problem he could ask McSame he is pretty good with geography.
I agree with your points about the corporate media. Have to figure out a way for alternate media to become more powerful.
His personal style is also said to be extremely abrasive with anyone who resists or shows any independence of mind.
Bob in HI
Downloading as we speak.
I’m still loading my audio library book onto my Ipod. Each disc takes about 5 minutes & there are 21 discs! Book is House of War-the Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power by James Carroll.
I like that each lecture is separate instead of on one huge file. I’ve done that 2 hour download thing before.
Agreed.
Had Nixon’s administration experienced a terrorist attack, Nixon could have gotten away with quite a bit, although the public was not as conditioned as they have been over the last 15 or so years by right-wing talk radio (the kinder, gentler version of Radio Rwanda) combined with other Straussian tactics and the systemic application of the Shock Doctrine.
With liberalism beaten into submission and so-called conservatism at its peak power, a Reichstag or a Pearl Harbor-like event as the PNAC suggested, was all it took to make illegal acts those of ideology.
How convenient it all was.
I have owned my Ipod for only a couple of months, so have not yet downloaded the lectures from Teaching Co. Think I’ll do so tonight. I’ve liked all the courses I’ve bought so far.
I heard today that Rush just signed an 8 year deal for, they said 400 million. I wonder if they meant 40 million. 50 million bucks a year for that toad? Jesus H F***ing Christ!
NOPE 400
I’ll be checking out their catalog over the weekend. In between getting my quarterly FEC filing put together.
That’s just obscene.
with $100M being a “signing” bonus.
i agree.
and this is, in fact, one of the things that has me most concerned about what will happen to the blogosphere. when the only source of $ is corporate - it’s hard very very hard….
Rush is the best at doing what he does- shame that anyone does it of course- but he’s the best at it—takes a lot of talent to keep that balloon full of bullshit aloft every day.
First segment of WJ this morning, the call-ins, was all about Rush’s new deal. I couldn’t listen to many, but the ones I heard were all about how great he is and how he deserves it. Spit.
ITs worse,im gonna write to him and see if he wants to help fund
http://shaggydogfarms.com/
hahahhahahahaha
there are lots of places to get free lectures also (for folks who don’t want to pay). berkeley was one of the first to start putting lots of courses online - and every year there are more and more colleges and universities doing it.
Yes, I keep meaning to check those out. MIT & Yale too. I’m in a groove on borrowing audio books from the library (listen to them when I jog, walk around town, or do outdoor work in the country), so I haven’t gotten around to checking out the university sites.
The advantage of the Teaching Co. courses is that they have vetted the professors for clarity & interest of presentation, and hold them on a tight leash, so there’s little wasted time. If you buy their courses on sales, they are quite reasonable.
So it’s down to only $37.5M per. That’s a lot of food and shelter for a lot of children. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his crotch.
I am given to understand that deer ticks, source of Lyme disease, enjoys settling in warm, moist places, like crotches. Doesn’t Rush have a country place in the NE where the possibility of deer ticks is real?
Clear Channel better hope old El Junkie-Bo stays sober.
-G
Works for me.
This coming Sunday’s NY Times Magazine story on Rust LimpBalls
I’ll pass, thank you.
And today’s politicos are providing services and results for the rich folks in their constituencies.
I’m just jumping in on this stale thread because the comments are so ripe for irony.
JB
Nice addition. Ronnie never pointed out that the Welfare Queens wear diamond tiaras.
I would say the Democratic Party is considerably weaker than the one that deposed Nixon, and the GOP was far less monolithic (Rove, DeLay and Gingrich would say, “less disciplined”). The vote for Nixon’s impeachment, had he not resigned and forced one, would have been overwhelming; with his tapes in hand, the outcome of his trial was equally assured.
Today’s GOP, like Bush and Cheney personally, regard political accountability the way most corporate executives regard laws against price fixing, concerted practices and making foreign bribes. It and they are unfair, they put me at a competitive disadvantage, and I shouldn’t be held to account even if I get caught. From the Democratic leadersheep’s devotion to the FISA “amendment” legislation, they agree.
The bigger difference “press” may lie with the press. Its features today are unrecognizable from what they were in Nixon’s day, starting with that anachronistic word to describe the “news” media. The Washington Post most of all.
Chinese walls - already fragile as rice paper by the time Ed Murrow stopped reporting - no longer separate the news from any other profit-making department in the entertainment and industrial giants that own the print and broadcast media. “News gathering and reporting” may be a loss leader — Brian Williams’ Porsche and Timmeh’s Nantucket abode don’t come cheap — but only in a strict accounting sense. Its job first and foremost is to pursue corporate profits. With an anti-regulatory, pro-big business administration in office, that means supporting that administration to the hilt.
Did some weird Repubs also reuse Hoover’s dresses?
I have Shirer’s _The_Nightmare_Years_ on my shelf, but haven’t read it yet. However, Shirer’s _Berlin_Diary_ is very good. I think that was his first write-up of his and his family’s experiences.
In the right hands Berlin must be a beautiful place. I’ve read that book and seen several movies and the character of the place comes through clearly. You can even sense the pride of the Berliners and then the story gradually turns mean and full of racism and hate and violence as one would expect an American film about psychopaths could appear.
The society began to reflect the inner turmoil and madness of it’s leaders.
Here our government and perhaps gradually the nation also reflects our leaders since their hands touch so many things and the press largely relates the events of their time. What do we see except the large number of people wondering why things are going wrong while one nitwit and his cronies are in charge and go around destroying everything.
It reflects Dubya’s life of bullying, destruction and avoidance of punishment.