Comments on: FISA: Keep The Pressure Going… http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:04:21 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: ubetchaiam http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525632 ubetchaiam Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:40:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525632 <p>Just like the ‘right to petition’ but no enforcement to act on such petitioning.</p> Just like the ‘right to petition’ but no enforcement to act on such petitioning.

]]> By: DWBartoo http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525631 DWBartoo Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:40:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525631 <p>What you say.</p> <p>Yet, Judge Wlkaer leaves the impression, somehow, that he is curious, just as are we, regarding whether Congress is paying attention. His ruling is, at least, a wink and a nudge …</p> What you say.

Yet, Judge Wlkaer leaves the impression, somehow, that he is curious, just as are we, regarding whether Congress is paying attention. His ruling is, at least, a wink and a nudge …

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525622 cboldt Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:30:34 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525622 <p>– <i>So, if I’m understanding correctly, the amendments will be voted on, then a cloture motion can be filed re voting on the bill with or without amendments. Is that understanding correct?</i> –</p> <p>The cloture motion to limit debate on final passage was filed on Thursday, June 26th. So, what will happen on TUESDAY (July 8th) is:</p> <p>- debate three amendments (5 hours)<br /> - vote on three amendments<br /> - debate final passage (1 hour)<br /> - vote on the already-filed cloture motion relating to final passage<br /> - if cloture is invoked, immediate vote on final passage</p> <p>– <i>Are there any other parliamentary procedures that can occur? Could someone introduce an amendment to extend the PAA?</i> –</p> <p>No. The UC agreement covers the entire span of legislative action from taking up the bill, through the possibility of amendment, to final passage. Once passed, if not amended, it’s ready to be sent to the WH (The House already passed it).</p> <p>If this passes, there is no incentive to extend the PAA or any other alternative.</p> – So, if I’m understanding correctly, the amendments will be voted on, then a cloture motion can be filed re voting on the bill with or without amendments. Is that understanding correct? –

The cloture motion to limit debate on final passage was filed on Thursday, June 26th. So, what will happen on TUESDAY (July 8th) is:

- debate three amendments (5 hours)
- vote on three amendments
- debate final passage (1 hour)
- vote on the already-filed cloture motion relating to final passage
- if cloture is invoked, immediate vote on final passage

– Are there any other parliamentary procedures that can occur? Could someone introduce an amendment to extend the PAA? –

No. The UC agreement covers the entire span of legislative action from taking up the bill, through the possibility of amendment, to final passage. Once passed, if not amended, it’s ready to be sent to the WH (The House already passed it).

If this passes, there is no incentive to extend the PAA or any other alternative.

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525618 cboldt Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:26:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525618 <p>Just thinking of another way to view Judge Walker’s opinion.</p> <p>He’s saying that the statutory remedy is worthless anyway - because Congress made it worthless in the first place. Why fight over losing something that’s worthless?</p> <p>IOW, we ought to be pissed that Congress put a charade on the books in the first place, and now they’re just perpetrating and/or deepening their complicity in aiding the government to conduct surveillance without accountability.</p> Just thinking of another way to view Judge Walker’s opinion.

He’s saying that the statutory remedy is worthless anyway – because Congress made it worthless in the first place. Why fight over losing something that’s worthless?

IOW, we ought to be pissed that Congress put a charade on the books in the first place, and now they’re just perpetrating and/or deepening their complicity in aiding the government to conduct surveillance without accountability.

]]> By: ubetchaiam http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525610 ubetchaiam Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:20:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525610 <p>So, if I’m understanding correctly, the amendments will be voted on, then a cloture motion can be filed re voting on the bill with or without amendments. Is that understanding correct?<br /> Are there any other parliamentary procedures that can occur? Could someone introduce an amendment to extend the PAA?</p> So, if I’m understanding correctly, the amendments will be voted on, then a cloture motion can be filed re voting on the bill with or without amendments. Is that understanding correct?
Are there any other parliamentary procedures that can occur? Could someone introduce an amendment to extend the PAA?

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525609 cboldt Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:17:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525609 <p>– <i>The short version of the process that will run on Monday is:</i> –</p> <p><b>TUESDAY</b></p> <p>Sorry about that.</p> – The short version of the process that will run on Monday is: –

TUESDAY

Sorry about that.

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525608 cboldt Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:15:55 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525608 <p>– <i>So does this “that any senator can delay proceeding by refusing to agree to vote on an amendment - and to get around THAT, a cloture motion would have to be filed.” mean that, despite the UC’s, a Senator can object to a vote on the amendment and then a cloture vote re the objection must occur?</i> –</p> <p>No, it does not. UC means the Senator consented - how can he turn around and object? Not that UC agreements aren’t changed, they are, often - but it takes UC to change an existing UC agreement.</p> <p>My comment about the 60 vote hurdles is hard to understand - but it’s basically that a Senator can force a time delay, or he can agree to a 60 vote hurdle without the time delay. In this case, it’s FISA proponents who could have been forced into objecting to limit debate on the Specter and/or Bingaman amendment - FISA proponents wanted the 60 vote hurdles on those amendments.</p> – So does this “that any senator can delay proceeding by refusing to agree to vote on an amendment – and to get around THAT, a cloture motion would have to be filed.” mean that, despite the UC’s, a Senator can object to a vote on the amendment and then a cloture vote re the objection must occur? –

No, it does not. UC means the Senator consented – how can he turn around and object? Not that UC agreements aren’t changed, they are, often – but it takes UC to change an existing UC agreement.

My comment about the 60 vote hurdles is hard to understand – but it’s basically that a Senator can force a time delay, or he can agree to a 60 vote hurdle without the time delay. In this case, it’s FISA proponents who could have been forced into objecting to limit debate on the Specter and/or Bingaman amendment – FISA proponents wanted the 60 vote hurdles on those amendments.

]]> By: SonomaRus http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525597 SonomaRus Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:08:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525597 <p>Oops late to the party again.</p> <p>I just got this link from the California Dems site <a href="http://www.cadem.org/site/c.jrLZK2PyHmF/b.1022165/apps/cd/content2.asp?event_id=" rel="nofollow">http://www.cadem.org/site/c.jr.....?event_id=</a>{7445B8C7-F076-421F-AF3C-1A5D6AB69DF8}&content_id={6EC49C16-62A3-40C8-8A78-351965B5B5E7}¬oc=1&noback=1</p> <p>Could be helpful for some enterprising pups I’m thinkin’</p> <p>Rus</p> Oops late to the party again.

I just got this link from the California Dems site http://www.cadem.org/site/c.jr…..?event_id={7445B8C7-F076-421F-AF3C-1A5D6AB69DF8}&content_id={6EC49C16-62A3-40C8-8A78-351965B5B5E7}¬oc=1&noback=1

Could be helpful for some enterprising pups I’m thinkin’

Rus

]]> By: DWBartoo http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525593 DWBartoo Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:05:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525593 <p>Yes, Walker is giving Congress a ‘heads up’, in a round-about way, do you suppose they are listening?</p> Yes, Walker is giving Congress a ‘heads up’, in a round-about way, do you suppose they are listening?

]]> By: ubetchaiam http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525588 ubetchaiam Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:01:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/fisa-keep-the-pressure-going/#comment-1525588 <p>So does this “that any senator can delay proceeding by refusing to agree to vote on an amendment - and to get around THAT, a cloture motion would have to be filed.” mean that, despite the UC’s, a Senator can object to a vote on the amendment and then a cloture vote re the objection must occur?</p> So does this “that any senator can delay proceeding by refusing to agree to vote on an amendment – and to get around THAT, a cloture motion would have to be filed.” mean that, despite the UC’s, a Senator can object to a vote on the amendment and then a cloture vote re the objection must occur?

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