Dukakis
Once upon a time there was a candidate who was 17 points ahead of his foe. The election, it seemed, was his.
His name was Dukakis, and he lost that election to George Bush, Sr.
Or, more accurately, he lost it to Lee Atwater, Rove’s mentor. By the time Atwater got through with him, Dukakis wasn’t even a respected politician anymore, he was a punchline.
In 2000 Rove ran Bush as a "compassionate conservative" and smeared Gore as a liar, the man who’d "invented" the internet. The fact that Gore had never said that didn’t matter. In 2004 Kerry, an actual war hero, was smeared as a coward by the Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth" and by the time they got through with him, the man who’d taught Swift Boaters that the way to respond to an attack was to turn into it, was branded a coward, not a hero.
Republicans try and run elections based on "character" and when they manage it they generally win. When the election turns on something else, such as hope, the economy and health care in ‘92, they lose.
Today McCain promoted a new campaign manager, Steve Schmidt. Schmidt has been pushed, hard, by Karl Rove. He worked for the Governator’s reelection, and he also worked for Bush’s reelection in 04. Schmidt understands both parts of the Republican two-step — how to take away the scary parts of Republicanism, which he did for the Governator, who ran on a number of rather liberal policy plans; and how to destroy the opponent.
McCain isn’t going to win this election by playing nice. The natural momentum of the time favors Obama, because the Republican brand is badly damaged. The appointment of a Rovian disciple shows that the Republicans get this, and they’re ready to intensify their strategy.
Folks act as if negative campaigning doesn’t work, but this is a myth. It works, and it works well. All it is is reverse branding — branding your opponent for him. Schmidt will be looking for the opportunity to brand Obama as effete, weak and unprincipled. Obama’s actions of the past couple weeks, his "run to the center" in which he has suddenly realized he didn’t mean what he said in the primaries is playing into this narrative.
As with almost all Democrats Obama doesn’t seem to get that strength isn’t about what you vote for (national "security"), it’s about how you act. Stand strong on a principle and people will admire that even if they disagree with it. Be seen to flip like a weathervane and even if people wind up agreeing with you, they’ll despise you. Being strong, appearing strong, is about having principles, about taking a stand, not about talking tough.
Now, certainly McCain has no principles to speak of, having thrown his few remaining scruples out the door over the last couple years to court the conservative base, as when he voted for torture.
But, as we all know, the media prefers Republicans on character issues. The Swift Boaters were liars, their lies were proved at the time, but they were never effectively rebutted by the press. In 2000 the press likewise repeatedly failed to call Bush out on his many lies, indeed Paul Krugman, who tried, was expressly forbidden to use the word "lie" by his editors.
So the McCain campaign is going to try and define Obama. Republicans defined Dukakis, they defined Gore, they defined Kerry. Only with Clinton did they fail. At the same time, I expect Schmidt to push the McCain maverick brand more seriously and start backing away from the right wing base on a couple of key issues. (Torture, for example, is a place where McCain appears to be attempting to claim he is different from Bush, despite his vote for it.)
Muddle the difference on some key stands, define your opponent, make the election about character and not about policy. Obama has made this easier. It can’t really be about health care since Obama is not for universal care, and it’s harder to make it about the economy after changing his position on NAFTA.
So what Obama’s got left is "I’m not George Bush. And I am change." If he can define McCain as Bush, he can still win it. But remember, historically elections that have come down to being about character have favored Republicans. And as Obama decides to be all things to all people, and nothing to anyone, I hope he isn’t walking into a trap whereby in simply defining himself as "hope" and "change" and "not Bush" he’s leaning on some slender reeds, easily broken by the avalanche of mud soon to come his way.
Lee Atwater is dead, but the style of politics he perfected hasn’t changed.
And sometimes the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Sad, isn’t it.
Obama wasn’t my first choice, but as the primary campaign progressed, he grew on me (mostly by treating the electorate as grown-ups instead of fearful children).
Now, I want a do-over. The FISA capitulation was bad enough, but now he’s walking back his commitment to get out of Iraq? What is wrong with him? Did someone kidnap David Plouffe and replace him with Mark Penn?
We can lose the presidential election, let’s not take this for granted while we squabble about whether Obama is a saint or not.
Obama is keeping down with my expectations. Probablity that he’s trapped very high.
FISA anyone?
Obama’s new rush to destroy the Separation of Church and State isn’t going to help much either. If there is a plausible challenge to him in 2012, he might be a one-termer. Historic, but a single.
He’s getting the 3P’s down…Pander, Prevaricate and Pirouette away from his own BS.
not to worry ian – i can assure you that obama is making no effort to pander to me. /s
I wrote to the Obama camp that I will not donate to someone who does not fight for the Constitution of the United States of America. (FISA, supporting church charity.) Not that I think letters, e-mails, faxes or phone calls are having any impact on any of the Dems. I don’t see Pelosi/Reid/et al. taking any notice of their base, and I don’t see Obama wising up. I despair, but I think McCain will slip through. Sad for all of us.
And thereby hangs the tale. Because I expected integrity from Barack Obama. I expected at the very least that he would be a fierce defender of the Constitution. Remember the “taught constitutional law” meme? He had my loyalty (okay, trickle down loyalty from Gore and then Edwards) and he has some of my money. There will be no more money (he doesn’t need it — he can afford to cover Hillary’s losses) and the loyalty thing is in limbo. And I’m a staunch Dem.
This is not looking good.
Once more, you & I are on the same side.
jo – what do you think has happened? this seems like far more than a turn to the right – more like a blunder of historical proportions. he’s destroying his own brand.
LOL. this is no fun – we’re going to have to find something to argue about *g*
I’ve given up on aristocrats, and I’ve quit donating as a general policy.
Though I will seriously consider giving funds to a good effort to primary any Blue Dog-type.
My gues is that he wants to be prez & doesn’t care how he gets there. Thus he deliberately played up to the D base during the primary and is now playing up to the R base. Only hypothesis that explains his actions that I can think of.
hi!!!!! Do you think that Obama will be able to win?
As I’ve mentioned before, my neo-con twin brother said, “the devil you know versus the devil you don’t know. You folks don’t know this Obama guy. But you’ll soon find out.” And then laughed maniacly.
Very few around here thought they didn’t “know” Obama during the primary. He portrayed himself in such a way as t allow everyone to write their own aspirations on him.
Selise, his (fucking stupid election-losing) consultants have no doubt told him he can’t win if he runs as a classic liberal, progressive, Democrat. He has to go for the “mommy vote” or the “NASCAR vote” or whatever group of swing voters that they have decided is most critical.
I am starting to wonder whether or not it might not be smarter at the Convention to flush an Obama candidacy down the shitter and pick HRC or John Edwards via some old-timey backroom dealing. It might not be easy, but it might keep us from letting Obama’s consultants put McCain into the White House.
What part of separation of Church and State does Professor Con Law not get? The Fourth Amendment?
Brilliant observation.
why doesnt he have better consultants ?
One of the oldest tricks in the book.
Jo Fish, Blaming campaign consultants is a cheap shot. Candidates are responsible for their own campaigns, and if they’re too dumb to recognize bad advise, they deserve to lose.
Do’h! We cudda hadda John Edwards!
yes – but if that’s true (that he wants to be prez at all costs), is what he’s doing now (destroying his own brand of “change you can believe in” and a new kind of politics) really going to help him win? or is it making him vunerable to being labeled weak, a flip-flop, ….?
Been thinking this, too. What a coup for HRC to have BHO pay down her debt and then take him down in Denver. That used to scare me. It doesn’t any more. Not so much, anyway.
LindaR: re Do’h! We cudda hadda John Edwards! We still can. If he’ll have us.
I agree with this 1000%. That’s right. a thousand . waaaay to early to start making inauguration plans. and we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. so far, mccain has been a pretty incompetent candidate. but they’re very good at this attack stuff. one thing i wanted to see Obama do early and ofetn was pound rthe theme that mcCain changed his position on taxes, the religious right, offhsore drilling, etc. when and why? when he decided to run fior president and needed right wing support. has been some of that from BO, but i’d like to see more. also haven’t heard enough about how mccain was in then out then in again on public financing. one thing they’re trying to pin on BO is the fkip flop tag that worked against kerry. BO should be doing it to McCain right now. alot.
Edwards was my choice.
I like your thinking. Maybe I’ll send a check to HRC and JE. Keep the options open.
but would anyone be on the short list to get picked (via the back room dealing) without agreeing to take on the same set of fucking stupid election-losing) consultants?
Listen Dearie (I had an aunt who used to say that ALL the time. to everybody), me too. I was gonna sign up, volunteer after the 4th. work a table on the 4th maybe. i ain’t interested now. money? fergit about it.
I’m not saying his prez-at-all-costs strategy is an intelligent one. It’s just the only ne that seems to explain his actions.
me too.
Seth Grahame-Smith over at HuffPo thinks so:
All of McCain’s Base Belongs to Us: Why It Won’t Even Be Close
Digg this
We need a 3rd party, the BES. Brokenhearted Edwards Supporters
What amuses me, in a world that needs some amusement, is that BHO’s behavious is making BubbaBill’s behaviour seem almost reasonable. Maybe Bubba isn’t pissy and pissed-off for merely selfish reasons.
it scares me – imo, the people should get to decide. even if we fuck up (and i’m still not sure that obama is any worse than hrc or edwards)…. because all the other paths lead to disaster. if you think obama’s pandering the establishment is bad – just think about how bad it would be next time if all the candidates knew that there was only one constituency that mattered – the one in the back rooms that was going to decide the nomination regards of the will of the people?
yuck.
i apologize for the long post/rant–humor me here, i have held this back for a while, long-time mccain watcher…i usually just stay out of it, watched him for years, then hated the man for years. i’m an observer of humankind. he’s not human. so, human tactics won’t work.
it’s not that obama is doing anything wrong, it’s that they are attacking him accurately…and he is giving them the ammunition..the dems are not attacking mcc&nt in a way that will affect him, bullet proof vest, so, he will win.they need to understand he is a sociopath. they operate differently, maybe dr. kirk can do a post on that. educate us.
i’ve had the ’opportunity’ to be around real true to life sociopathic people. that’s plural. he is one. please start to look at him that way so that we can combat what is developing here. they operate on a different scale than the rest of us.
he’s now touring looking presidential……working for him isn’t it? to the same country where he did things he should have wanted to conceal, yet, it’s working. someone needs to wake up in the democratic party and realize they are dealing with a man that is a sociopath, yeah, i know i keep repeating that.
someone who absolutely doesn’t see boundaries is dangerous. someone who feels entitled to claim something is dangerous. someone who has no empathy is dangerous. and will not see anyone else as human or more deserving of something than he is. he will always be first in line. and because of that, he will appear to be strong and level-headed, and full of purpose, well, he is, to get what he wants. to be first in line.
dmac July 2nd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
65
teddy-i have had a life-long aversion to the word c&nt. first time i heard it, i knew it couldn’t be a good thing…i think it’s the worst word in the english language. by far. for years have tried to stamp it out, when it started showing up here and other places because of mccain, i felt sinkholes forming for the human race that it would become a casual word….
but now, i am beginning to think differently. remember, i’m the mccain hater from waaaaaaaaaaaay back. because he’s two-faced. a sociopath. noone ever talks about how he is a sociopath. he is. watch him, listen to him.
so, c&nt isn’t the worst word anymore to me, i think McC&nt is the worst word, not mccain, mcc&nt, that’s what i’m gonna call him from now on….he’s earned it… i delayed saying that in public here for a month now, now, i’m sayin’ it, that’s his name in my mind….anyone that would call his own wife a trollup and a c&nt-there i said it again-in the same sentence is the worst kind of individual, worse than the word itself. and then add on the rest of his sociopathic acts…inhumane. no excuse of a human being. not worth the powder to blow him up-got that phrase from an old wise woman.
i brought up on the radio the other day for people to think about their high school graduating class……now, sure, someone has to be at the top and the bottom, but who was at the bottom? anyone you hung out with? my sister teaches english and she says and so does my best friend who teaches art–you have to work hard to get an ’f’…now, mccain graduated 4th from the bottom of the naval academy…how hard did he work to get an ’f’…..a ’c’ would beat the most 2/3rds down…..waddaya think his grade point average was? i don’t want someone for president that has less smarts than me, or works less hard at something, i want someone smarter than me, in some way…this man ’ain’t’ it.
a lotta people called in after that. in a good way.
boy, i had a flash of norske in that rant. what the hell’s wrong with me? lol /s
=======
p.s. why haven’t you joined the firedoglake readers group on flickr? eh? it’s really cool. so many different things.
http://www.flickr.com/groups_m…..tab=member
i’m not a facebooker, but this? i’ve been havin a blast with it the last few days, click on my name for my page. not all the way organized yet, wide variety of things mixed throughout.
c’mon teddy, add your page, i know ya got one, cuz it’s bookmarked in my browser!!!!
ha.
dmac July 2nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
80
dakine at 49–i think people focus too much on his ’mental state’ after being a pow, and not enough on what it was before it……..sociopath, i’m tellin’ya, sociopath……so, being a pow, what would that do to a sociopath?
the dems are handlilng him all wrong, the guy is a sociopath.
dmac July 2nd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
82
i keep forgetting to add, i was married to one……..mccain’s all over it…..same kind of family histories….know it when i see it……dems need a different tactic with him than what they’re doing, watch him, the more he’s attacked, the more he turns it back, deflection…….he expects it. knows how to deal with an adversary. cuz everyone is an adversary.
someone’s gonna owe me a nickel.
Ecahn, I have to respectfully disagree. The Democratic consultants have not had the best record of winning national elections, we have suffered at the hands of Bob Shrum and his ilk, and that’s pretty well documented, I think.
A candidate does choose his adivsors, that’s true, but a good many of the advisors for Democratic campaigns are recycled without learning any lessons at all. Obama is not stupid, but he can’t watch everything and has to rely on advisors for input. Incompetant input or severe group-think among advisors can be more debilitating than no advice at all, IMHO.
I think Obama is the Master of his ship, but his crew may not be convinced that he’s charting the proper course and is trying to shift in the direction they see is right.
i was justy thinkin’ about that. and i thought he’d be doing alot of the same stuff, probably. moving rightward. he could be right about FISA ’cause he doesn’t have to vote on it. but i think he’d move aaway from where he was at in the primaries. he’d have to, i’m ok with Barak.
i’m in.
damn. was trying to pick an argument. but have to agree w you again.
well, there’s no way Edwards will be any part of McCain’s administration, but there’s good chance he’ll be part of Obama’s.
Lakoff Rule Number One: We gotta drop the flip-flop tag, no matter who (whom) it’s applied to. To whom it is applied. Whatever. It immediately reels the John Kerry image into consciousness. Bad juju. We need a new label, applied strictly to Pugs.
egregious @ 32: I’m in!
Here’s a choice: a one-term failed R presidency or a one-term D presidency. Which is better for us in 2012?
Actually the Dem consultants usually are pretty good at winning/shepherding the candidate through to victory in the primaries.
But you’re correct in that they don’t do so well on the General Election.
This truly scares me because the MSM is in the back pocket of the right, therefore, anything they say will be parroted over and over and over. How does one combat this?
i gotta go eat. i was at this pl;ace the other night, looked up and nacy grace was on the screen. i almost fell outta my chair. what a hideous individual.
So you & I can know that D consultants are failures, but Obama doesn’t know it? What does that infer about him?
don’t know. depends on too many things. especially congress.
i used to think you guys were exaggerating with that “msm is in the back pocket of the right” type stuff. watching the BO/McCain coverage has been an eye-opener foe me. awful. just awful.
“If he’ll have us”
Maybe he’s learned what Al Gore has learned — we don’t deserve either one of them.
By that I mean: Obama isn’t going to save us, and neither could Edwards or Gore or any “leader.”
Somehow, citizens need to wake up to who the sovereign is in our system, what “the people” means in a founding fathers sense. And then the critical mass of us has to responsibly use the power that is ours — but only ours if we use it in enough numbers to make the “will of the people” felt.
As long as we’re distracted and refracted, we have no power; and the only thing that will happen to a person who tries to “lead” us is he or she will be Swift Boated and Dukakissed and dismissed.
I never did think Obama’s motives were altruistic. But I can’t imagine why anyone with altruistic motives (and who was not dillusional) would want to be president if this country at this time.
my rule number one is that Ds and Rs get judged by the same standards. i don’t pull punches for someone just because there is a D beside their name.
if you want, though, i’d consider giving up the “flip-flop” thing for Ds if we give it up for Rs as well. does that work for you?
I’ve never been a huge Obama fan (to much vague talk- to little meat) but he’s the candidate and I support him. Those who thought that this would be a walk in the park should be getting a wake up call. This is going to be a VERY tough campaign. I’m willing to cut Obama slack on doing what he thinks he needs to do to win- his political instincts have been pretty good so far- but I’m not sanguine…he’s gonna know he was in a fight when this is over–hope he can dish it out as well as take it.
http://cynicsparty.com/2008/07…..istration/
I hate what tehy are doing to Obama!
It’s disgusting!
are there any good dem consultants ?
I think this is Obama’s election to lose, and if I were betting money, I’d bet on him. But I think he can lose and I think he’s making some (forget moral) stategic errors that could come back to bite him. I also think that I’d much rather have him as president than McCain, even though I’m under no illusions that Obama won’t be constantly aggravating me once in office.
Obama positioned himself as a “bi partisan” at the very beginning of his race. He still thinks that he can stand above some of the traditional polarizing issues. We’ll see.
Good consultants are those who work for candidates who win….so yes there are plenty of good dem consultants- just no good presidential consultants during the last eight years
ANY dem would be torched for far less than the gaffes by McInsane. Could you imagine if Barak would have been the one who didn’t know the difference between Sunni and Shite?
if the Republicans keep the presidency in 2009, woe, woe to us all.
And I mean that in a deep, agonizing, rending-of-garments and cutting-of-hair sense.
Here is my contribution to Obama for FISA and Faith:
http://img111.imageshack.us/my…..ailsn1.png
Obama’s biggest advantage is McBush who can’t seem to campaign his way out of a paper bag–really, really, shitty.
Are there more evangelicals than liberals/progressives? Who in the hell is he playing to at this time? I just don’t get it, which is why it seems self-defeating for Obama himself.
Yes, that was one of my early problems with him. No sentient human can look at what the Rs stand for and have done and honestly think that bipartisanship is a moral way to go.
I think the whole country will fall apart if we let mcStupid win.
Yes, but think about the consquences if Obama is elected and is a disaster. Sets the cause back by decades.
I mean delusional.
can’t spell today.
na ga happen.
Obama is the candidate and we have to live with that fact. Unless something tragic—and I mean tragic—happens to him between now and the DNC he’s it.
Repeat after me:
He is not the messiah.
He will disappoint. Repeatedly.
It’s the SCOTUS AND the war(s)
So we will have to hold our noses, wear our gas masks and make sure he gets elected.
4 more years of W, even under a pseudonym, is 4 years more than the country and the world can take.
Or didn’t know the price of gas AND said that didn’t matter?
Obama is trying to inocculate himself against the near certain gooper attacks that he is unpatriotic, and an atheist or muslim… What he’s doing is NOT stupid. Remains to be seen whether it will work or not.
and I’m so glad i just wat=tched Brit Hume and that panel of clowns, Didja know the economy really isn’t that bad? It’s just the hysterical media that says it is. and mccain. today. but they didn’t mention that.
Odds are pretty damned good that the next prez will preside over lean economic years and troubles abroad…one termer most likely.
so far. But if the Rovian clan is now working for McSame, our guys had better be ready for super pro dodge ball.
don’t worry about it. i can spell but i can’t type. it’s probably your typing more than your spelling. certainly not a head problem.
Respectfully, I want to call you on this. The media doesn’t “prefer” Republicans, the media is a corporate propaganda tool owned and controlled by Republicans (as your tale of Krugman’s editors illustrates).
The story is much, much worse than you describe. It is not merely a question of what Obama does or does not do, because the media is, as we saw with Kerry, perfectly free to make shit up with zero accountability.
This isn’t Obama’s election to lose, not really. This is the media’s election to decide, and if they decide to force McCain to win, they will.
We need to acknowledge that when the media does not do what was classically “its job,” when it does not challenge discrepancy or highlight corruption, that’s not an accident. Nor is it negligence.
The media’s job is to reinforce the position of those in power, and to ensure that only candidates are elected who will maintain the profits of the corporations. I suspect that the only reason Obama is looking like he can win is that the economy is so very, very bad that the corporations themselves are divided over whether McCain or Obama will improve their profits the most.
But that’s the only criteria that matters. Not FISA, not Iraq, not Gitmo – but which presidential candidate will allow the corporations to make the most money. Which ever candidate appears to be providing that edge will win, the other one will lose.
Shorter: “It’s the corporate economy, stupid.” Okay, you’re not stupid: I’m just paraphrasing the quote! Man, it’s never as clever when one has to qualify it.
At least they will have Bill Clinton to blame.
So isn’t it better for us (and the country) if the Rs are forced to live with the consquences of their actions for the next 4 years, after which perhaps we’ll have a candidate about whom we could be proud? (A girl can hope.)
He’s doing a whole lot of stupid things. Whether they come out of his own dream world, his own messiah complex or the consultant class, who knows. But it won’t work to piss off the base—which he seems to be doing a grand job of lately.
Well- other than perhaps adding two more conservative to the supreme court.
Thanks, RevDeb. I needed that. SCOTUS, SCOTUS. Appropriate mantra. Preach that at me once a day so I don’t forget. I’m still not gonna send him any money til he stands up for the Constitution!!!
Obama figures that he’s got to define himself as a god loving patriot BEFORE the goopers start to take him down…He’s right about that I expect.
Very good point.
However, would you today trust Obama to add to SCOTUS?
If I were making the kind of money the cable talking heads are making, perhaps the economy wouldn’t seem so bad to me either. For my middle class family things are getting tighter and tighter. I don’t know how those under the poverty level are surviving.
Compared to McBush? Oh HELL yes!
i’m with the people who have despaired ever having a general election candidate of whom we can be proud. we just gotta support the best one –unless there are some disqaulifying issues — and try to keep them honest once they get in. this FISA stuff is good practice w/ BO.
Fox trying to paint Obama as wanting to fight only for the inner city- shameless fuckers.
As of today, I’d leave out the “HELL”…
that’s something everybody who’s talking about walking away from BO has to remember. great point.
It does work for me. Because flip-flop = Kerry in the national lexicon. And every time that surfaces, it circles back to our last great defeat.
Amen.
I actually LIKE it that Obama has been stripped of sainthood early- will keep our thinking rational about him. He’s a piece to try to manuever on the chess board- nothing more or less.
no.
Yeah, I know. I am just totally fried and shooting off my mouth. Bear with me, please.
makes me laugh – and want to cry.
I have long recognized that my political views put me in a minority- and that no candidate will win by espousing what I believe- so I try to support the person who will do the least harm.
i agree
yes, and I can explain why in three words:
Michelle
Malia
Sasha
If the pundits could be replaced with Indians from India and Chinese people for five cents on the dollar, they would still be expensive, but much cheaper than they are now. Chris Mathews at $5 million a year? Small wonder the economy isn’t bad (for him).
I had this on my wall in the dorm some @#$ years ago in college. I think it applies:
We have a swamp to drain, remember?
The FED is shrinking our money supply and restricting loans.
This spells Depression.
Just saying, for the curious.
Yes, at the beginning of the campaign he said he didn’t see a country made up of blue states and red states, he saw the United States.
He’s tacking to the center, and as Pres., he will mostly govern from there unless we force him to the left.
That’s a good one. Never saw that before.
The real center is left.
I got news for you. The surves show we ARE the center. If Obama’s elected, he’ll govern from the right.
All the people who are disappointed in Obama need to remember on thing – if you remember nothing else about him. He is a student of George Lakoff.
For those of you who don’t know what that means, it is simply, George Lakoff is a specialist in the cognitive science of linguistics. In English, he studies ’framing’ and how it works.
In the instance being worried about today (faith-based initiatives), everyone (including me) has heard this term over and over for the past 7 or so years, and have become very familiar with the Bush version of this. It is a failed policy whereby the Rethugs dismantle a government program that was doing an adequate job, in favor of some crony religious program that is marginal at best, and outright corrupt at its heart at worst. Along with this, the Rethugs dismantled social safety net programs leaving these so-called faith-based organizations to pick up the entire load, something they were never qualified for, nor were capable of doing on the scale of need. So we hear the words – faith-based initiative – and immediately all this crap comes to mind. Along with the erosion in the line of separation between church and state.
Let me propose a ”Lakoff transformation”. First, listen to Obama’s speech. And I mean REALLY listen. Don’t just read the headlines, here or anywhere else because they all have as a subtext the Bush definition.
Second, let’s lose the descriptor – faith-based initiative. What Obama is proposing is a PARTNERSHIP between the government and private institutions to get a job done. He is proposing that the government will keep its ongoing programs and work to make them better. And will work as a PARTNER with other organizations to help address needs that may be better suited to these particular organizations or for which these organizations may have a better track record of success. He proposes to LEARN from these organizations and figure out ways to help the government agency do a better job so that all persons needs are met. Yes, some of these organizations are religious – but the appropriate guidelines are in place – they just need oversight, accountability and enforcement, something that has also been completely missing under Bushco, and which Obama says he will make the Office in charge do its job.
I think that we are all too quick to dismiss and feel bad about Obama’s supposed policy direction changes, when they may not be that at all. Or they may be policy direction changes that are going in an entirely new direction than the one we are thinking about. Lakoff says this is the trouble with our language – we tend to develop a ’frame’ around a word or phrase when we first encounter it. That frame gets imprinted on our brains, and then we have to work really hard to actually think ”outside the frame” for a new and better context.
Next time you hear that Obama did XYZ using language that feels/seems bad – try this exercise. Replace the objectionable frame with another word that describes the action being taken – as I did using the word ’partnership’, and then look at the issue again. We may all be surprised – in a good way.
So far as I am concerned, we won the elections of 2000 and 2004.
Ding!
I think he has pretty well told us DFH’s to f* off. Our next operation toward draining the swamp is going to have to be focused on the Blue Dogs. They are the tail that’s wagging the rest of our agenda.
(((barbara)))
yeah :/
“faith-based” or “partnership,” sounds the same to me. Your example did not make your case for me.
news:
rats leaving a sinking ship.
And another one dives off the gang plank.
i’m over that. 2000 is debatable. gore could have ended that by just winning his home freaking state. 2004? i dunno. i’m concerned w/ 2008.
i don’;t get what you are saying. would do the exercise you recommend for the fisa issue? that might help me understand. thanks.
The center is made up of blue collar suburban workers who have no college education, go to church every week, love the flag, fear terrorists, and admire strength and authority…we are NOT the center.
In the polls, we’re the center on all the issues: economy, medical care, war, etc. Wasn’t talking about demogrpahics, but issues.
Interesting. However, I know that Obama is a gifted speaker — that’s what caught my attention in the first place. I don’t want to have to try to figure out what he really, really means. He knows how to speak the truth in a way that people can understand…..if he wants to.
I don’t really like Lakoff and I find ‘partnership’ equally unacceptable.
i’m tellin’ ya, we’re dealin’ with a new brand…..as the years go by, the definition of how candidates are defined becomes a question of who is level-headed and ’straight on’……..my comment at 35 i know was long and hard to read, but i meant it.
democratic nominee—empathy has become a requirement, the more they have the more they’re revered.
republican nominee–less empathy the better, a weakness if they have it.
we are becoming a society without empathy unless it’s someone we directly know. i’m tellin’ ya, this is going to matter.
what personality has the least empathy?
sociopath.
kinda answers itself.
unless the dems figure out a way to deal with that, we’re gonna lose this…..mcc&nt has been grooming himself, i’m positive of that, with voice lessons, etc. his voice has changed in 2 months.
i’m not trying to be the voice of doom, i’m saying, hey, let’s get some ideas on how to deal with that type of personality, cuz it’s been developing for some time now and still we haven’t and aren’t going to unless people realize who we’re dealing with. sociopaths operate differently than us, and we need to do something about them. now.
Yes I know- but the two things get fused in the real world of politics- and the numbers on the war, for example, are heavy about it bein a mistake to go in- but it’s not clear where the center is on getting out- one to two more years I think- but every year another year gets added.
Agree. He’s a pretty good communicator when he wants to be. So perhaps we need to be applying Occam’s to his speeches.
I would think that by now the country is hungering for some really straight truth telling and standing on principle. Those things that the sprinkles crowd likes to shower McThuselah with.
O could do it if he wanted to. The question for me is why is he sista souljahing us of all people? He doesn’t have to do that to reach out to others.
they also want universal health care, they don’t want the gov. to spy on them without a warrant and they don’t want their kids sent to suffer and die in a stupid needless war.
oh, and they don’t want to pay $4 a gal for their gas.
what you are describing are social signifiers – not where people are on the kind of gov. they want. i don’t think the issue is the mythical center voter – it’s the bought and paid for media that Albatross described in 73, that, apparently, is who obama thinks he has to convince to support him.
One way to look at it, and not a way I like, is that he’s throwing the game. We’re watching it happen right before our eyes, and can’t believe what we’re seeing.
On the other hand, maybe We, the People — or at least this segment of the People — don’t matter. The only part of the electorate that ever matters is the wingnut base.
Well. Who’d a thunk.
FYI: The Maverick meme just took two hits today, one in an op-ed piece in the WSJ –ok, by Tom Frank, but they invited him to write it–and one from a conservative Tampa Bay paper.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/20…..e-insider/
The Democrats have played the Washington Generals role for far too long. They continually snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory always when it counts the most, they make moves that are simply too boneheaded to be believable. The immaculate candidate suddenly abandons all principles and voids all of his repeated ardent promises? Promises made with the full knowledge that the issue was soon to be put to the vote? If one wasn’t otherwise informed, they would be inclined to think that our people apparently play to lose when it counts, something akin to throwing the game.
There is no other explanation, unless everyone in the entire Democratic organization is exceptionally stupid and the Republicans have been incredibly deft for the last what, three decades? And we all know better!
What I know is that McCain will add another Scalia clone and that is enough for me to support Obama.
I don’t have a link but the latest survey I recall seeing on getting out had Immediately sitting at roughly 35% and within a year at roughly 40% so that’s a pretty good percentage wanting us out of Irak within a year at most.
only if the dems in congress let him.
Universal Health care polls well- but it did before the Clintons tried to make it fly- and the health care establishment laid millions on a PR campaign against it- at which point the support ebbed..
I haven’t seen any polling on warrantless wiretaps
25% favor getting out of Iraq now…
The gas thing is cutting the wrong way- a majority now favor the gooper “drill your way to greatness” plan.
Someone use to have addresses for all the MSM sites, should we post it daily so that we can correct the lies. Recently they showed Obama ignoring a child wanting a fist bump but it wasn’t that at all. The boy wanted Obama to autograph his hand. ABC corrected the story online but that’s all. We need to bombard them everyday with the facts.
The Republican are incredibly deft – they stick together like glue and we destroy our own. We, right now, are giving them talking points against our candidate, whether we like him or not, and they don’t do that. The leaders of our party are not very good at holding the line and we make it easy for them. If Democrats ever learn anything about how to get the job done, we will have the WH and the Congress for as far as the eye can see – but I doubt that we will learn.
The dems had 40 votes to block the nominations of Roberts and Alito and they didn’t. The dems could block FISA now and they won’t. Do you really want to hope they grow a spine between now and January.
Well, I think the rightwingnuts have said plenty of nasty stuff about their now presumptive candidate!
But it seems like the last few days have been filled with pain. That sharp stick and my eye are getting all too well aquainted! FISA, Faith Based Initiative, the hits just keep coming…
Goopers had a pretty good winning streak goin before 06, if they lose again this time around we’ll see some fingerpointing, dissaray, and agonizing reappraisal, and all the old fissures will become highly visible.
Rachel doing Countdown tonight
time to migrate.
We should be telling his campaign, the Democratic Party, the DSCC, the DCCC, the DNC and everyone in Congress about our displeasure. I’m not happy with a lot of things he is saying but we are not getting to HIM. That’s what we need to do.
the clintons hardly worked to explain, let alone push for it (unlike, you know, nafta?).
from the aclu: National FISA Poll by the Mellman Group; Voters Vigorously Oppose Warrantless Wiretaps, Blanket Warrants and Telecom Amnesty (10/16/2007)
re: iraq. gotta include those who want to take up to a year to leave iraq (no precipitous withdrawal) to, imo, get an idea of the public’s desire to continue the occupation or to leave soon as may be.
that’s why i wrote “if”
and i see no reason to expect a president obama to have any more spine or principles than the congress he comes from.
i haven’t forgotten that the only topic he found so important to communicate with us about via a dkos diary was the one where he lectured us about our opposition to roberts.
I disagree with you about the Clintons and health care- they fucked it up- but they put a lot of energy into it- and they damned near pulled it off.
Some who were in on the planning say that Bill wanted to negotiate early and Hillary held out for her preferred solution.
I was VP of Human Resources at the time and the topic was VERY hot–goopers were forced to put forward their own plans and some of em were pretty damned good- but the whole thing folded after the industry PR campaign that killed the thing dead…
ok. i defer to you on the health care item.
Selise, Even my son’s very liberal lawyer girl friend felt that Roberts should be confirmed because there was nothing there to stop it, now Alito was a totally different story. I live in GA and though unlikely, it could tilt towards Obama because of Barr and the black vote. I certainly plan on voting for Obama. In my case, I probably would even if I lived in Utah but I also am upset about FISA.
my complaint about obama’s dkos diary at the time wasn’t that he didn’t think roberts was such a big deal – it was the condescension and bs arguments he used, as well as why he would pick that topic alone among all the important issues of the day to discuss at dkos.
now though…. many pardon’s to your son’s very liberal lawyer girl friend – but had she read robert’s opinions? if his pre-scotus opinions were anything like his dissent in Boumediene then i think he should never have been confirmed.
but more to the point, he was not forthcoming in his testimony before the SJC. congress should care about that – regardless of what wacky ideas he has.
It should be remembered that when GHWBush defeated Dukakis, said Bush Sr. was running for Reagan’s third term much more so than McSame is running for GWBush’s third term.
While the nation was sick over the Iran Contra thing that clearly had Ronnie’s Alzheimeristic fingerprints all over it, running for Ronnie’s third was completely successful.
There is no question that the MSM and Rove Jr. could win this thing.
The left’s only hope for winning is beyond control. Obama will probably win, but, if so, for all the other contributing reasons, only one will be determinative: the economy.
In that regard, the frame is usually set in June/July of an election year, and $4+ gasoline suggests the ignorami will flock toward change.
Too bad about all the ideas raised during the campaign. But, with Obama looking increasingly like a cross between Jimmy Carter, Adlai Stevenson and Michael Dukakis, what’s it matter?
If you haven’t done so already I hope you will post a comment about Obama & FISA and how the media is covering this story on the NYT blog.
Obama Backlash in His Online Backyard
By Noam Cohen
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..d/#respond
Goopers think they’ve struck the mother lode with the offshore drilling issue. They have the support of a majority of americans and it’s no time to stand up for seals or whatever….it will be a huge issue.
jpl-at 128–i post it here and there, but got it from another pup way back when……maybe ls or cbl2, usually them.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=111
and i have individual ones to go with it.
and there’s always spotlight, but my browser can’t handle it.
The Weevil of Politics
Once upon a time, long ago and far,far away on the other side of the Universe, in the Weevil Homeland, where everything was backwards, the Good-hatted Tarcomeds and the Bad-hatted Nacilbupers both covet the uniterary position of Grand Tnediserp (neddy-serp).
And weevil, the people, always sought to choose the much lesser Weevil, not because weevil wanted to, that was just simply the best weevil could do.
It all came down to the Weevil of Money and the lucrative fact, that as the Grand Tnediserp, one always had something Weevil to ’sell’.
Note: The preceding Weevilish snark reflects nothing Weevil about our own little world, which is the best of all possible, that ever have twirlled.
Next thrilling episode:
The Weevil of War …
;~D
more like the ‘dial-up’ can’t handle it
Did you have some of what Teddy was passin’ around downstairs?
But, honest, I swear, I didn’t inhale.
Panama Red?
Columbian Gold?
Or, maybe, just maybe, Bolivian Pale?
We need a Dem now. After another McBush term what will be left of America for a Dem to help resuscitate?
I’m really sad to see all of the nashing of the teeth on this site all of a sudden. If you really paid attentionto Obama and what he has talked about, he never said he was a total liberal and some of his ideas are not liberal. And yes we boughta lot of his slogans, but if you all want to see McCain stake teh OVal Office, this discourse will do it. They are monitoring our sites and will use all of this against him. Just like what Hillary did, they are using her stuff against him already too. If you don’t donate and he loses, thank you all.
Obama 08
Meg, I don’t like it either. Why is it Democrats turn on their candidate so quickly? LOL It makes my head spin sometimes and if McCain wins it in November we’ll know why! Some will be scratching their heads and wondering aloud…what went wrong. *sigh*
Thank you Thank you Thank you
I was thinking that Bob Shrum might have snuck into the Obama camp.
If he loses it’ll be because of decisions he made. There are consequences to his actions. If he wants to say one thing in the primary then say another in the general, some people will consider that unacceptable. He makes the decision, he bears the consequence and it is his responsibility to decide correctly that the number of base voters, money and volunteers he loses by throwing the 4th amendment overboard are more than balanced. If they aren’t, again, that’s his responsibility.
To put it more bluntly, he either lied in the primary or changed his mind rather fast, and it’s not unreasonable for people to get angry about that. Nor is it their fault that Obama is acting like a weathervane in a tornado.
His actions. His words.
His responsibility.
Well said Ian; this needs more ‘diggs’ and lots of ’sharing’. I’m wondering if it will be the VP nominee who becomes the ‘attack dog’ since Obama seems to want to ’stay above the fray’(consistent with the ‘change’ meme he’s trying to birth, e.g. ‘faith based initiative’).
Indicting Rove would be an excellent step for the Dems and well deserved.
For this hypothesis —call it hypothesis no. 57 to give it an encoding— to be fruitful, there would have to be some payoff, either immediately or over time, pecuniary or in kind, etc. What could possibly be big enough for someone as ambitious as Obama seems to be?
If Progressives just clutch their pearls, and moan, “They are so EVIL” — it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Just stay with the facts:
1. The GOP is telling the evil lies and acting evil NOW.
2. Conventional wisdom says Obama won’t play the same gave Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry did. It sure seems he is, now. But I hold out hope.
3. The Progressives can’t just sit back and HOPE things will turn out OK.
4. So, what do we do? I say start with media. What do we have? Keith Olbermann — that’s about it on teevee, as far as I can see. Radio? 99% right-wing. That’s out. I realize there are good starts, like GritTV, and others, but they are speaking to the choir. IMO. Late night TV? Forget Leno — he will say anything to get a laugh. Stewart and Colbert? Yes, But again, speaking to the choir.
So — what can we do?
Mud from both the D’s and the R’s and the MSM. Thanks for this blog, Ian. So solidly sound.
I am commenting late in the game, but I feel like we need to process this “under the bus experience.” Hey, Reverend, Samantha, Wesley, moveon, and 60s hippie activists (wow… that one really po’d me)…. I can’t believe he threw the entire “left” under the bus. And I thought Bush had hubris. And how deliciously titillating to MSM who justifies the strategic wisdom of this decision for a few minutes, to use it later to club him with.
So Bush’s numbers are in the toilet. We on the left have been screaming about the emperor’s nakedness for eight long years. Suffered our own form of PTSD when awesomely he was reelected in 2004 … but no one, apparently including Obama, will acknowledge our wisdom and our Cassandra-like warnings. The first line enablers of Bush and his war … of lemming-like apathy to corporate rapists …. won’t give us our due. I guess we gotta let go of that. Respect for our sanity.
I was thinking of the adage about how Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love. And Barack just sent us a massive Dear John letter. Wow.
IIRC … long ago Joan Baez said wistfully she wished she had had time to become a “person” before she became a “personality”. I fear this may be happening with Barack. Potential there for sure… but is it beyond his emotional capacity? Also IIRC Einstein said evil wasn’t darkness, it just was the absence of light. Now, we need a leader who can lead us toward the light … of truth and goodness. I fear you can’t see the true light, Barack and how can you lead us to the future if your stride is not sure, but you are puppeted by your ego-strategic mind and those of your “handlers” … lost to the dark.
I SAY AGAIN, BARACK, LEARN TO LET GO OF THE SUPPORT YOU DON’T HAVE, AND HOLD ONTO THE SUPPORT YOU HAVE!
dmac @35 … my reply not working…
I recognize “traumatic bonding” with McCain… whereby an individual enthralls others into a roller coaster of relating.. one does not know if they will get a smile or a slap from such a volatile person. And people misinterpret their own intimidation for respect. And feel relief and a bit of a high when the negative side doesn’t lash out. It glues them to the traumatizer. Kind of like the Stockholm hostage syndrome.
APA says if you have 3 of 7 following characteristics you are dealing with an anti-social personality. 1) failure to conform to social norms, 2) deceitfulness and manipulativeness, 3) impulsivity, failure to plan ahead, 4) irritability, aggressiveness, 5) reckless disregard of the safety of self and others, 6) consistent irresponsibility, 7) lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another person.
Martha Stout claims 4% of population are sociopaths. 1 in 25. She wrote a book called The Sociopath Next Door. They can be charming, intelligent, etc. They just lack the all-important conscience.
DWBartoo @147
D,
I just loved my poem! Just peeked back and found it and was so touched. Thank you. That gets printed out and put in the scrapbook! :)
Thanks for being generous with your wit, wisdom and … well, so generous with your generosity!
L