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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Right&#8221; Stuff</title>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1523014</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1523014</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you.  I do remember that name.  And Songbird… was that the plane?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for confessing the crushes.  I had one on Spin and Marty at the same time.  Remember them?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  I do remember that name.  And Songbird… was that the plane?  </p>
<p>Thanks for confessing the crushes.  I had one on Spin and Marty at the same time.  Remember them?</p>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1523010</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1523010</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I too voted for Edwards in the primary, though he had just suspended his campaign.  I thought both Hillary and Obama, but more Hillary had been a quick study for Edwards’ rhetoric and his passion.  And Obama was patronizing to Edwards a few times during the debate, mascotting him, and that made me cringe, about being the token white middleaged male.  It had an archness to it I didn’t like.  And when it seemed Hillary was taking up a more specific blue collar laundry list and Obama still with the general rhetoric and googoo eyed kids … and then Edwards … well…why didn’t Edwards endorse him post haste … since he was supposedly more liberal and more anti-war than Hillary… and why didn’t Obama reach out to Edwards people.  Obama had those cards close to his chest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I am still super pissed with Oprah, America’s trusted teacher, who enabled Bush to have his armchair appeal in 2000. Well, Obama will take care of Oprah’s needs I am sure.  Oprah’s trusted viewers… not the liberals or those economically struggling.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too voted for Edwards in the primary, though he had just suspended his campaign.  I thought both Hillary and Obama, but more Hillary had been a quick study for Edwards’ rhetoric and his passion.  And Obama was patronizing to Edwards a few times during the debate, mascotting him, and that made me cringe, about being the token white middleaged male.  It had an archness to it I didn’t like.  And when it seemed Hillary was taking up a more specific blue collar laundry list and Obama still with the general rhetoric and googoo eyed kids … and then Edwards … well…why didn’t Edwards endorse him post haste … since he was supposedly more liberal and more anti-war than Hillary… and why didn’t Obama reach out to Edwards people.  Obama had those cards close to his chest.</p>
<p>And I am still super pissed with Oprah, America’s trusted teacher, who enabled Bush to have his armchair appeal in 2000. Well, Obama will take care of Oprah’s needs I am sure.  Oprah’s trusted viewers… not the liberals or those economically struggling.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522916</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522916</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you suggesting that the President’s appearance, including his “landing” on a carrier, was staged?  That the manly appearance that sent MetroDCsexual Chris Matthews swooning in his “I’m capable of asexual reproduction” sort of way was handcrafted?  I’m shocked.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you suggesting that the President’s appearance, including his “landing” on a carrier, was staged?  That the manly appearance that sent MetroDCsexual Chris Matthews swooning in his “I’m capable of asexual reproduction” sort of way was handcrafted?  I’m shocked.</p>
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		<title>By: ThatSinger</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522910</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatSinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522910</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t know if anyone else answered this but Sky King’s daughter’s name was Penny… I only know this because I had a serious crush on her until Laurie Partridge came along…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t know if anyone else answered this but Sky King’s daughter’s name was Penny… I only know this because I had a serious crush on her until Laurie Partridge came along…</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522880</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522880</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Brandon Friedman’s response, and those he’s assembled from Iraqi and other war vets, about General Clark’s comment, is an essential read.  The bottom line, I think, is in this quote from Peter Granato of Washington, DC, an Army veteran who served in Iraq (emph. mine):&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;In no way has General Clark questioned the honorable service or the patriotism of &lt;em&gt;Captain McCain&lt;/em&gt;.  Rather, he questioned the judgment of &lt;em&gt;Senator McCain&lt;/em&gt; who has foolishly endorsed the failed neo-conservative foreign policy of the Bush administration.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/30/223436/275/665/544457&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....665/544457&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Obama keeps triangulating to find that mythical center (more accurately, a bull’s eye) that his so-called advisers tell him he should be in, he’ll end up like Charlie Brown trying to kick Republican Lucy’s football.  He’ll miss it every time, end up on his backside and keep coming back for more.  Obama is smarter than that.  He should stop playing the other team’s game and play his own.  His apparent ability and willingness to do that is why he’s the nominee and not Hillary.  For more, see today’s Glenzilla.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for McCain, becoming a skilled Naval Aviator is a considerable achievement.  Using a military aircraft as a weapon, not just flying it, is tough business.  And even the bravest aviator needs a stout pair of brown corduroy trousers to make night carrier landings (the target is a 30×100 foot section of pitching, rolling and yawing deck, sixty feet above inhospitable waves).  Crashing his aircraft in combat goes with the territory.  (Losing four more, including one en route to an Army-Navy football game in Phila. is another matter.)  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But apart from longterm PTSD, I’m more worried about what McCain learned in order to endure five years of POW treatment.  &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;He learned to tolerate anything.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;  He learned to move in and out of a fantasy world whenever the real one was too brutal.  If he just “stayed the course”, kept his head down and took it night after night, he’d survive.  He need never change or give in; he couldn’t, it could lead to defoulment or dishonor.  That’s a lot of baggage that would come into play in the tense, daily decision making that is the President’s lot.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m also worried about what McCain didn’t learn, which is the heart of General Clark’s comment and why he was qualified to make it.  He never learned to command multiple forces with different missions.  He never learned to lead large groups of men and women from diverse backgrounds, with ambitions, talent and failings as great as his own.  As a Navy Congressional liaison, he did learn to find Congressmen the best drinks away from home, and how to get them home when they’d had too many.  He learned to disobey policy and encourage his Congressmen to fund weapons programs his President and Navy Secretary didn’t want.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More importantly, John McCain never learned to distinguish between missions that were worth putting men on the line for, and which were worth losing his stars over in order to say, “No, sir” to his President.  He never learned that restraint is as potent a weapon as a missile or a “fuck you”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon Friedman’s response, and those he’s assembled from Iraqi and other war vets, about General Clark’s comment, is an essential read.  The bottom line, I think, is in this quote from Peter Granato of Washington, DC, an Army veteran who served in Iraq (emph. mine):</p>
<blockquote><p>In no way has General Clark questioned the honorable service or the patriotism of <em>Captain McCain</em>.  Rather, he questioned the judgment of <em>Senator McCain</em> who has foolishly endorsed the failed neo-conservative foreign policy of the Bush administration.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/30/223436/275/665/544457" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/&#8230;..665/544457</a></p>
<p>If Obama keeps triangulating to find that mythical center (more accurately, a bull’s eye) that his so-called advisers tell him he should be in, he’ll end up like Charlie Brown trying to kick Republican Lucy’s football.  He’ll miss it every time, end up on his backside and keep coming back for more.  Obama is smarter than that.  He should stop playing the other team’s game and play his own.  His apparent ability and willingness to do that is why he’s the nominee and not Hillary.  For more, see today’s Glenzilla.</p>
<p>As for McCain, becoming a skilled Naval Aviator is a considerable achievement.  Using a military aircraft as a weapon, not just flying it, is tough business.  And even the bravest aviator needs a stout pair of brown corduroy trousers to make night carrier landings (the target is a 30×100 foot section of pitching, rolling and yawing deck, sixty feet above inhospitable waves).  Crashing his aircraft in combat goes with the territory.  (Losing four more, including one en route to an Army-Navy football game in Phila. is another matter.)  </p>
<p>But apart from longterm PTSD, I’m more worried about what McCain learned in order to endure five years of POW treatment.  <em><strong>He learned to tolerate anything.</strong></em>  He learned to move in and out of a fantasy world whenever the real one was too brutal.  If he just “stayed the course”, kept his head down and took it night after night, he’d survive.  He need never change or give in; he couldn’t, it could lead to defoulment or dishonor.  That’s a lot of baggage that would come into play in the tense, daily decision making that is the President’s lot.</p>
<p>I’m also worried about what McCain didn’t learn, which is the heart of General Clark’s comment and why he was qualified to make it.  He never learned to command multiple forces with different missions.  He never learned to lead large groups of men and women from diverse backgrounds, with ambitions, talent and failings as great as his own.  As a Navy Congressional liaison, he did learn to find Congressmen the best drinks away from home, and how to get them home when they’d had too many.  He learned to disobey policy and encourage his Congressmen to fund weapons programs his President and Navy Secretary didn’t want.  </p>
<p>More importantly, John McCain never learned to distinguish between missions that were worth putting men on the line for, and which were worth losing his stars over in order to say, “No, sir” to his President.  He never learned that restraint is as potent a weapon as a missile or a “fuck you”.</p>
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		<title>By: redX</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522852</link>
		<dc:creator>redX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522852</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bait and Switch?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is there anyone that did not think this was goig to happen step-by-step.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I do not think the people who were saying Clinton and Obama are essentially the same were smoking crack - its all in the votes and speeches.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think people forgot during the whole fight between Cliton and Obama. Both very similar, same votes, same run toward the middle. With Obama you perhaps have less of an outsider (but perhaps easier to control by the power brokers due to his relative inexperience) and with Cliton more of an insider (but perhaps harder to control due to a bit more experience - but again she is likely already bought into the DLC, etc, etc, etc).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The lies are supposed to be fore the new supposed “8 minute” voter. Those who read and study really should not be fooled at this stage.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bait and Switch?</p>
<p>Is there anyone that did not think this was goig to happen step-by-step.</p>
<p>I do not think the people who were saying Clinton and Obama are essentially the same were smoking crack &#8211; its all in the votes and speeches.</p>
<p>I think people forgot during the whole fight between Cliton and Obama. Both very similar, same votes, same run toward the middle. With Obama you perhaps have less of an outsider (but perhaps easier to control by the power brokers due to his relative inexperience) and with Cliton more of an insider (but perhaps harder to control due to a bit more experience &#8211; but again she is likely already bought into the DLC, etc, etc, etc).</p>
<p>The lies are supposed to be fore the new supposed “8 minute” voter. Those who read and study really should not be fooled at this stage.</p>
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		<title>By: yellowdog jim</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522765</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowdog jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522765</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.badlandsblue.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=767&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; George McGovern on John McCain&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; …in McCain’s first opening remarks, he said, &lt;strong&gt;well we all know that &lt;em&gt;George McGovern&lt;/em&gt; knows little about national defense&lt;/strong&gt;.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let me tell you what I would say to John McCain: &lt;strong&gt;neither of us is an expert on national defense&lt;/strong&gt;.  It’s true that you went to one of the service academies but &lt;strong&gt;you were in the bottom of the class&lt;/strong&gt;. It’s true that you were a pilot in Vietnam, that you were shot down and spent most of the war in prison and we all sympathize with that and honor you for your courage.  But you and I both had these battle experiences, you as a Navy fighter plane, I as an army bomber. I am not going to criticize your war record and your knowledge of national security but I don’t want you criticizing mine either.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If I’d be allowed just one little dig at Senator McCain, since he gave me. I would say, &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;‘John, you were shot down early in the war and spent most of the time in prison. I flew 35 combat missions with a 10-man crew and brought them home safely every time.’&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;War Hero?&lt;br /&gt;
yes.&lt;br /&gt;
qualified to be president?&lt;br /&gt;
not so much.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.badlandsblue.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=767" rel="nofollow"> George McGovern on John McCain</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p> …in McCain’s first opening remarks, he said, <strong>well we all know that <em>George McGovern</em> knows little about national defense</strong>.  </p>
<p>Let me tell you what I would say to John McCain: <strong>neither of us is an expert on national defense</strong>.  It’s true that you went to one of the service academies but <strong>you were in the bottom of the class</strong>. It’s true that you were a pilot in Vietnam, that you were shot down and spent most of the war in prison and we all sympathize with that and honor you for your courage.  But you and I both had these battle experiences, you as a Navy fighter plane, I as an army bomber. I am not going to criticize your war record and your knowledge of national security but I don’t want you criticizing mine either.  </p>
<p>If I’d be allowed just one little dig at Senator McCain, since he gave me. I would say, <em><strong>‘John, you were shot down early in the war and spent most of the time in prison. I flew 35 combat missions with a 10-man crew and brought them home safely every time.’</strong></em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>War Hero?<br />
yes.<br />
qualified to be president?<br />
not so much.</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522640</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, without President Lindbergh, we’re strapped with England, England.  Such a joy.  Haute cuisine!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, without President Lindbergh, we’re strapped with England, England.  Such a joy.  Haute cuisine!</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522610</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I also am taken aback by the blatant recognition of lying and even criticsm of a candidate who fails to do it.  I don’t know a very good answer.  You could refuse to vote for “the better” candidate in the general, as I suppose you are suggesting, but I think you could do that for election after election and just repeatedly end up with the worse candidate.  To some extent, that explains the Nixon victory in 1968, the Reagan victory in 1980 (given the animosity of Kennedy supporters), and the Bush &#124;”victory” in 2000 (if you think Nader had an effect).  On the other hand, it can be argued that Clinton turned to the right and won twice.  Even though you may not be a fan, he was arguably the better of the candidates from a progressive point of view.  So, I don’t know a perfect answer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I also am taken aback by the blatant recognition of lying and even criticsm of a candidate who fails to do it.  I don’t know a very good answer.  You could refuse to vote for “the better” candidate in the general, as I suppose you are suggesting, but I think you could do that for election after election and just repeatedly end up with the worse candidate.  To some extent, that explains the Nixon victory in 1968, the Reagan victory in 1980 (given the animosity of Kennedy supporters), and the Bush |”victory” in 2000 (if you think Nader had an effect).  On the other hand, it can be argued that Clinton turned to the right and won twice.  Even though you may not be a fan, he was arguably the better of the candidates from a progressive point of view.  So, I don’t know a perfect answer.</p>
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		<title>By: pmorlan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522579</link>
		<dc:creator>pmorlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/the-right-stuff/#comment-1522579</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Primary/General Election bait and switch routine is nothing more than institutionalized lying to the people and it’s in our interest to put an end to this practice. It used to be that they would at least get challenged for doing this and now everyone just gives them a pass when they do it. I blame the pragmatist/centrist crowd for this. I think it’s their way to make sure that we don’t have a progressive candidate.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Primary/General Election bait and switch routine is nothing more than institutionalized lying to the people and it’s in our interest to put an end to this practice. It used to be that they would at least get challenged for doing this and now everyone just gives them a pass when they do it. I blame the pragmatist/centrist crowd for this. I think it’s their way to make sure that we don’t have a progressive candidate.</p>
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