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	<title>Comments on: FISA:  Now This Is What A Patriot Sounds Like&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/</link>
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		<title>By: Loo Hoo.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1523410</link>
		<dc:creator>Loo Hoo.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;OMG!!!!  Maybe Feingold’s delay will pay off.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NEWS YOU WON’T FIND ON CNN&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;American Bar Association-accuses President Bush, of violating both the Constitution and federal law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;02/13/06 — Full text American Bar Association Task Force Report&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;American Bar Association&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Adopted By The House Of Delegates&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;RESOLVED, that the American Bar Association calls upon the President to abide by the limitations which the Constitution imposes on a president under our system of checks and balances and respect the essential roles of the Congress and the judicial branch in ensuring that our national security is protected in a manner consistent with constitutional guarantees;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FURTHER RESOLVED, that the American Bar Association opposes any future electronic surveillance inside the United States by any U.S. government agency for foreign intelligence purposes that does not comply with the provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, 50 U.S.C. §§ 1801 et seq. (FISA), and urges the President, if he believes that FISA is inadequate to safeguard national security, to seek appropriate amendments or new legislation rather than acting without explicit statutory authorization; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG!!!!  Maybe Feingold’s delay will pay off.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>NEWS YOU WON’T FIND ON CNN</p>
<p>American Bar Association-accuses President Bush, of violating both the Constitution and federal law.</p>
<p>02/13/06 — Full text American Bar Association Task Force Report</p>
<p>American Bar Association</p>
<p>Adopted By The House Of Delegates</p>
<p>RESOLVED, that the American Bar Association calls upon the President to abide by the limitations which the Constitution imposes on a president under our system of checks and balances and respect the essential roles of the Congress and the judicial branch in ensuring that our national security is protected in a manner consistent with constitutional guarantees;</p>
<p>FURTHER RESOLVED, that the American Bar Association opposes any future electronic surveillance inside the United States by any U.S. government agency for foreign intelligence purposes that does not comply with the provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, 50 U.S.C. §§ 1801 et seq. (FISA), and urges the President, if he believes that FISA is inadequate to safeguard national security, to seek appropriate amendments or new legislation rather than acting without explicit statutory authorization; </p>
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		<title>By: john in sacramento</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1523384</link>
		<dc:creator>john in sacramento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1523384</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Try this &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnss.org/fisa.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cnss.org/fisa.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good stuff here&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;American Bar Association accuses President Bush, of violating both the Constitution and federal law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12294.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.informationclearing.....e12294.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try this </p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnss.org/fisa.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnss.org/fisa.htm</a></p>
<p>Good stuff here</p>
<p>American Bar Association accuses President Bush, of violating both the Constitution and federal law.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12294.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.informationclearing&#8230;..e12294.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1523022</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1523022</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;– &lt;i&gt;i’m pretty sure i disagree on this. since the amendment is germane, it only requires a simple majority - unless by UC or because those opposing it object (and then they have to go through the hassle of a cloture vote on the amendment - in effect it would make the opponents filibuster).&lt;/i&gt; –&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Germane” is irrelevant as to whether or not the cloture widget can be applied.  An amendment that is not germane is at risk of being excluded on a point of order.  The post-cloture environment [post the cloture vote to limit debate on final passage of the bill] includes this:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;No dilatory motion, or dilatory amendment, or amendment not germane shall be in order. Points of order, including questions of relevancy, and appeals from the decision of the Presiding Officer, shall be decided without debate.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The 60 vote hurdles for the Bingaman and Specter amendments is a time short-cut that works the same hurdle that would occur if opponents of the amendment objected to voting on the amendment.  The fact that there is a UC agreement with a 60 vote threshold tells us that the objectors have thrown in the towel.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If they didn’t agree to that, the alternative process would have been to offer the amendment, having the GOP object to voting it on a straight majority, the GOP filing a cloture motion to limit debate on the amendment, and then 60 votes needed to limit debate.  If they don’t get the 60 votes, debate continues.  The amendment can be withdrawn by the person offering it, but they can’t be forced -by the rules- to withdraw it.  Just the same, the typical reaction on failing to get 60 votes to limit debate is the proponent (of the amendment) agree to withdraw it so the legislative process can go forward.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>– <i>i’m pretty sure i disagree on this. since the amendment is germane, it only requires a simple majority &#8211; unless by UC or because those opposing it object (and then they have to go through the hassle of a cloture vote on the amendment &#8211; in effect it would make the opponents filibuster).</i> –</p>
<p>“Germane” is irrelevant as to whether or not the cloture widget can be applied.  An amendment that is not germane is at risk of being excluded on a point of order.  The post-cloture environment [post the cloture vote to limit debate on final passage of the bill] includes this:</p>
<blockquote><p>No dilatory motion, or dilatory amendment, or amendment not germane shall be in order. Points of order, including questions of relevancy, and appeals from the decision of the Presiding Officer, shall be decided without debate.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The 60 vote hurdles for the Bingaman and Specter amendments is a time short-cut that works the same hurdle that would occur if opponents of the amendment objected to voting on the amendment.  The fact that there is a UC agreement with a 60 vote threshold tells us that the objectors have thrown in the towel.</p>
<p>If they didn’t agree to that, the alternative process would have been to offer the amendment, having the GOP object to voting it on a straight majority, the GOP filing a cloture motion to limit debate on the amendment, and then 60 votes needed to limit debate.  If they don’t get the 60 votes, debate continues.  The amendment can be withdrawn by the person offering it, but they can’t be forced -by the rules- to withdraw it.  Just the same, the typical reaction on failing to get 60 votes to limit debate is the proponent (of the amendment) agree to withdraw it so the legislative process can go forward.</p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522997</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;– &lt;i&gt;If you don’t have the votes, you do not have them. And they don’t on cloture — and I’m told they aren’t likely to get them no matter the push. So looking at a strategy that is dependent on cloture wasn’t going to work in their eyes, hence the plan B.&lt;/i&gt; –&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Opponents don’t have the votes for any of the amendments.  The Senate passed S.2248 (easily, not close AT ALL), which was stopped in the House.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The UC agreement (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gpoaccess.gov/calendars/dailysenate/sc30jn.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Legislative Calendar of June 30, 2008&lt;/a&gt;) sets forth the COMPLETE order of debate and votes, leading to the Senate passing exactly the same language that was passed by the House.  Given the whip counts on previous attempts (see S.2248) I see no place in that process to cause delay or defeat on passage of H.R.6304.  Period.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The objectors gave their consent to the process that is spelled out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>– <i>If you don’t have the votes, you do not have them. And they don’t on cloture — and I’m told they aren’t likely to get them no matter the push. So looking at a strategy that is dependent on cloture wasn’t going to work in their eyes, hence the plan B.</i> –</p>
<p>Opponents don’t have the votes for any of the amendments.  The Senate passed S.2248 (easily, not close AT ALL), which was stopped in the House.</p>
<p>The UC agreement (see <a href="http://www.gpoaccess.gov/calendars/dailysenate/sc30jn.html" rel="nofollow">Legislative Calendar of June 30, 2008</a>) sets forth the COMPLETE order of debate and votes, leading to the Senate passing exactly the same language that was passed by the House.  Given the whip counts on previous attempts (see S.2248) I see no place in that process to cause delay or defeat on passage of H.R.6304.  Period.</p>
<p>The objectors gave their consent to the process that is spelled out.</p>
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		<title>By: jacqrat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522989</link>
		<dc:creator>jacqrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522989</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;HA! &lt;a href=&quot;http://digg.com/politics/Poll_Lieberman_Sinking_in_home_state_of_Connecticut&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DUGG&lt;/a&gt; that MFker too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stupid DanGerstein and Short-ride Joe…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA! <a href="http://digg.com/politics/Poll_Lieberman_Sinking_in_home_state_of_Connecticut" rel="nofollow">DUGG</a> that MFker too.</p>
<p>Stupid DanGerstein and Short-ride Joe…</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522971</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522971</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re: Casey, Senator, Pa. ‘D’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Casey  =  timid middle&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Specter = timid piddle&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The middles will piddle&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp; the Piddles will muddle,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s all quite as ‘opaque’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a roiled-up mud puddle.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Complicity rules …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Casey, Senator, Pa. ‘D’</p>
<p>Casey  =  timid middle</p>
<p>Specter = timid piddle</p>
<p>The middles will piddle</p>
<p>&amp; the Piddles will muddle,</p>
<p>It’s all quite as ‘opaque’</p>
<p>As a roiled-up mud puddle.</p>
<p>Complicity rules …</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522969</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522969</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So you reside in Penn’s Woods?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where, if I may ask, in the sylvan reaches, do you call home?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Meself I am, since but a solar journey ago, now in Pittsburgh, having traded the low-lying fields of western Chester for the ups and downs of Allegheny county.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have also known the forests of Centre, having mis-spent my youthitude in that most central of Pennsylvania’s Land Grant University towns, State College.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you reside in Penn’s Woods?</p>
<p>Where, if I may ask, in the sylvan reaches, do you call home?</p>
<p>Meself I am, since but a solar journey ago, now in Pittsburgh, having traded the low-lying fields of western Chester for the ups and downs of Allegheny county.</p>
<p>I have also known the forests of Centre, having mis-spent my youthitude in that most central of Pennsylvania’s Land Grant University towns, State College.</p>
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		<title>By: jasonthe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522960</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522960</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Unbelievable&lt;/em&gt; news from Utah.  Just got wind that Morgan Bowen, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bowenforcongress.com/Home.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Democratic candidate for Utah’s 1st District&lt;/a&gt; currently held by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Rob_Bishop_Homeland_Security.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Republican Rob Bishop&lt;/a&gt; will have a press release out later today taking a stand again the FISA bill, and retro-active immunity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For those who aren’t familiar with Utah’s political landscape, it is the land of &lt;a href=&quot;http://thesidetrack.blogspot.com/2007/08/jim-matheson-d-ut-red-handed.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Blue Dog Jim Matheson&lt;/a&gt; - who of course supports retro-active immunity.  Matheson traditionally calls the shots in the state, often leveraging his position as the only Democrat in the state’s federal delegation to squash real leadership against the Blue Dog agendas.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hoping this becomes a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/19284&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;big deal&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Unbelievable</em> news from Utah.  Just got wind that Morgan Bowen, <a href="http://www.bowenforcongress.com/Home.aspx" rel="nofollow">Democratic candidate for Utah’s 1st District</a> currently held by <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Rob_Bishop_Homeland_Security.htm" rel="nofollow">Republican Rob Bishop</a> will have a press release out later today taking a stand again the FISA bill, and retro-active immunity.</p>
<p>For those who aren’t familiar with Utah’s political landscape, it is the land of <a href="http://thesidetrack.blogspot.com/2007/08/jim-matheson-d-ut-red-handed.html" rel="nofollow">Blue Dog Jim Matheson</a> &#8211; who of course supports retro-active immunity.  Matheson traditionally calls the shots in the state, often leveraging his position as the only Democrat in the state’s federal delegation to squash real leadership against the Blue Dog agendas.</p>
<p>Hoping this becomes a <a href="http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/19284" rel="nofollow">big deal</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: amghru</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522957</link>
		<dc:creator>amghru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. I find it discouraging that I am one of the “Dirty Hippies” that the Good Senator from Illinois is trying to distance himself from now. I have already contacted my new Dem Senator Casey and informed him that I voted for him to vote opposite of Santorum and because of his last FISA vote I would do everything in my power to see he does not recieve another term on my dime. He wrote back to me that although it is an imperfect bill that it was necessary for national security. Blah, blah, blah.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment. I find it discouraging that I am one of the “Dirty Hippies” that the Good Senator from Illinois is trying to distance himself from now. I have already contacted my new Dem Senator Casey and informed him that I voted for him to vote opposite of Santorum and because of his last FISA vote I would do everything in my power to see he does not recieve another term on my dime. He wrote back to me that although it is an imperfect bill that it was necessary for national security. Blah, blah, blah.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynU</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522948</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/01/fisa-now-this-is-what-a-patriot-sounds-like/#comment-1522948</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Speaking of which, I just called and harangued a staffer at Obama’s DC office.  She politely listened to a lengthy impassioned plea then told me that the Senator supports the Dodd Feingold Leahy amendment.  I said, terrific but that’s not enough.  He needs to get out front with Feingold and the others who are LEADING on this issue.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of which, I just called and harangued a staffer at Obama’s DC office.  She politely listened to a lengthy impassioned plea then told me that the Senator supports the Dodd Feingold Leahy amendment.  I said, terrific but that’s not enough.  He needs to get out front with Feingold and the others who are LEADING on this issue.</p>
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