Zed. How does getting shot down in a plane provide Commander-in Chief experience?

what happened to pivoting to attack? i thought obama knew to do that?

Don’t forget to sign the petition, supporting General Clark.

But that’s exactly what Obama is doing; he’s running to the right so fast that his pivot and attack is to the left.

Obama has said many troubling things.

It doesn’t. You have to get shot down and bail out on your crew to qualify as C-in-C.

Why is the GOP attacking the patriotism of a 4 star General? I kind of like framing the Democratic response in that manner.

Dems are afraid of their own shadow. This playing not to lose strategy is going to get them beat. Show some spine, will ya?

Don’t you know? Wesley Clark’s military service doesn’t count. He is a Democrat after all, and therefore an unpatriotic flag desecrating traitor.

Looks like the pundits and his consultants are rapidly teaching Obama how to play by the inside-the-beltway rules: wear you lapel pin, dammit; ignore the netroots or other unsavory elements when they call you on your campaign promises; and never, ever show the courage of your convictions and support an ally that speaks an uncomfortable truth. Throw him under the bus to appease people who won’t vote for you anyway.

Oy, at this rate he’ll be pliable and ready for the lobbyists and the special interests by February, and it’ll be business as usual in the Village. Change we really wanted to believe in, but…

The notion that McLame is a hero is repugnant nonsense. Victim yes, Hero no.

From the moment Dday predicted it at digby’s yesterday, i’ve been counting down the minutes until the Democrats and Obama did their Brave Sir Robin imitation.

Brave Sir Robin ran away.

Bravely ran away away.
When danger reared it’s ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
****Bravely**** taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin!

Juts change “sir robin” to “obama” and it fits perfectly, right down to the stressed syllables.

McCain himself said getting shot down didn’t take much talent-

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: It doesn’t take a lot of talent to get shot down. I was able to intercept a surface-to-air missile with my own airplane, which many of you know is no mean feat.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..n_9-1.html

So if getting shot down didn’t take much talent, how can McCain run on that and claim it gives him the experience to be C-in-C?

Does he think being the C-in-C is so easy it takes no talent? If so, it’s because he’s been watching Bush for the past 7 years!

from what i’m reading, it’s the willful and deliberate misreading and misquoting and misframing of clark’s comments by the bbq-sucking toadies in the national political press corps.

andrea greenspan and the yammering idiot, mika, were mighty verklempt this morning at the truth spoken about their beloved st john. and it continues with joe klein, chris cillizza and juliet eilpern all dissembling, misquoting and taking out of context clark’s remarks.

and propelling the propaganda on behalf of st john the tortured.

Wes Clark Walks Into McCain’s Giant Wood Chipper

it was a Fargo(ne) conclusion.

Nice!

I’d like to read that…got a bad link, though.

bwaahaaahaaa – following Jane’s “hissy fit” link

some of you hippies are over at Joke’s place pasting his sorry ass – my fave so far -

turning the rib cultist’s “logic” against them – and calling for a Randall Duke Cunningham Write In campaign – lol

Just in time for the 4th of July holiday. God Bless Help America!

Who he hell is Obama listening to these days? On everything from more needles war funding and FISA without a fight… to running from the wimpy idiot bullies AKA the GOP.

This would be embarrassing if it weren’t so infuriating.

Clark should now finish it off by disclosing McCain’s confessions to the Viet Kong that the USA sucks donkey d*cks. The horse is out of the barn now.

I actually don’t think it will make a bit of difference come November.

Despite the cumulatice soiled undies of the pundits Faux News, one of the things this election has ably demonstrated is the rapidly declining influence of thise pundits, and the traditional media, in framing any election debate. So, while this episode may flare for a few days (and bad luck to McCain to have it just before July 4th, when the news cycle comes to arest for four days), it will be all but forgotten within two weeks.

This election is about the economy and Iraq, and no amount of hand waving by Broder and his lemmings, or by McCain and his staff, will change that.

pearl-clutching, histrionic nitwits.

But tell us, Jane, what do you really think?

I will swim upstream on this one. I think Wes Clark did exactly what was needed. Rove use to counsel– in this version, wisely, I think– to attack your opponents strength. I think McCain has been getting a free ride on his “expert” FoPo credentials, and I think he needs to be confronted on it, because it’s all smoke and mirrors. On other issues, the Obama campaign has used this tactic well. McCain’s halo is askew on FoPo, ISTM, and needs to be knocked off. Obama should not concede this territory!!!

Bob in HI

Wow. I think I set a record for typos in one post.

What selise said!

Bob in HI

then stay away from the transcript of his “patriotism” speech in MO today :D

Joke Line’s column in the hard copy this week was fab. He made the argument that we should all sacrifice by turning down our air conditioners to save energy. He then went on to say that he hates A/C and personally doesn’t own one.

Nice personal sacrifice, there, Joe.

GROAN… lol

I completely, completely agree.
Somebody had to start this dialog, and Clark was perfect.

reptiles can handle the heat

An actual honest to blog Swiftboater is working on the McSame campaign. Someone who denigrated John Kerry’s military service is now scolding Gen. Clark for making a fair point about McCain. Will anyone in the media call McCain out for this? Is the Pope Jewish?

I don’t think it will make a difference, either, but it makes for a dismal long weekend to be reminded of what a bunch of flag-clutching hysterics the country still are.

Score this round to the Republicans. Obama rolled out a touchy-feely ad about how much he loves his country presumably to defuse this and now “patriotism”, its Republican trademark variation, is nevertheless the issue our media are offering us.

I”ve always thought we had a typo quota here, and we have not met our quota! ;)More tpyos, pls.

so what is the deal, do we point out the GENERAL Clark was talking about Mcsame’s executive experience; not his POW experience.
or
do we change the subject from Mcame’s POW status and trash Clark?
or
do we point out Clark was speaking for himself?

Off Topic
From the NewsBox, Jesus effing Christ…
BREAKING: Former Iraqi detainees sue U.S. military contractors

Lately, Obama is listening to and providing cover for:

Robert Rubin, Jason Furman, Jim Johnson, and Fortune Magazine.

Let’s see it’s June 30 and Obama is trying to “run out the clock” .

Disappointing to see Obama cower to the corporate media/GOP frame on this. It’s gonna be a long campaign

Thanks Jane.

digg

When you attack, you better damn well understand the terrain. Clark graduated first in his class at West Point. He would have studied the Fetterman Massacre.

Worked for Gore and Kerry. Oh wait a minute…

Well, let’s be honest: Team Obama is helping them along with their Swiftboating of Clark. Sorry to say this, but it’s the truth.

“…provides the perfect blueprint for how to turn the press corps into a bunch of pearl-clutching, histrionic nitwits.”

I think the term “histrionic nitwits” should be replaced by “Silent Germans.” In addition, the term “Silent Germans” is applicable to many, not in the press!! The host of Countdown is not a “Silent German” in fact he has the “testicular fortitude,” as Gene Burns use to say, to call the criminals in the W H what they are fascists, enabled by equally compromised demorats in congress. Many who post here on the FDL site are not Silent Germans either!! Keep up the good work expressing the “legitimate concerns” of the governed who have been left out of the equation by corporate conditioned media!!!

Trying to defend Obama is going to be pretty much a forlorn hope, pal.

Clarke said nothing wrong; in fact he was on the offense fighting for Obama.

Last time anyone does that.

Here’s the correct “frame”: 100 years.

Bless General Clark and may he long continue.

The MSM will give McCain a pass as long as it can get away with it. Our side MUST challenge McCain on every level, and certainly, MUST question this assumption that having been a POW automatically makes McCain presidential material. That is plain and simple crap.

I despise everything about Karl Rove, but I will credit him with understanding a strategic truth – that to bring a candidate down you need to undermine his/her STRENGTH. Weaknesses fall by themselves. McCain’s been riding on his POW credentials his entire political life. He’s done very little as a Senator, has been embroiled in various scandals, yet his image remains bolstered by his “war hero” status. But having been a prisoner of war DOES NOT automatically make a person a good leader. It just doesn’t. And, with all due respect, one can point that out, and should do so, repeatedly.

Clark has guts. Which is great to see, and all too rare.

As someone who is 50% German by heritage, I object to the “Silent German” terminology. There are plenty of complicit Frenchmen, Norwegians, and Americans for us to know that this is not especially a “German” characteristic.

Bob Schacht
–back in HI

Apparently we’re having our own hand-wringing session here. Come on, folks: man up, adjust your bra and let’s get back to the work of electing a Democratic president.

Bah!
There’s nothing exciting about a race to the center – even for a centrist.

In the mean time, while we are waiting for November, review these two news stories:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story…..038;page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/S…..038;page=1

and remember
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzz1VEN1SEk

What is the fuss about? I thought Clark started saying this weeks ago.

I guess because Clark said it on official big corporate media?

And because a corporate media news diva responded to Clark’s obviously true observation with an embarrassingly unastute “RREEEEAAAALLLYY?”?

So a corporate media star expressed astonishment at an obvious statement. I guess that is enough to get the obvious questioned in this country now.

I don’t know what to make of Obama’s over-reactive rejection, which also missed the point.

But an obvious truth is now ‘out there’ and subject for discssion, so that is good.

I hope some one who is qualified to get onto corporate media will defend Clark and argue his case.

There are many people who have flown jets in combat, and been held prisoner of war. Thre are fewer, but still many, politicians who made speeches against the Iraq invasion before it happened. Neither has much to do with who is qualified to lead the country. Maybe command of facts and sound arguments for what should be done and ability to think critically through complex should matter more.

It is frightening that an influential talking heads like Schieffer use the reasoning of a four year old when discussing national affairs.

How about a race care driver for energy policy?

Nothing at all was said to disrespect McCain military service. Clark simply tried to inject some sanity into the political discussion. Look what that gets you these days.

Clark challenged one of the Trad Media’s most cherished and closely held narratives: that McCains experience in VietNam gives him an unchallenged perch on issues of Foreign policy and national security.

Sad to see Obama is letting Clark twist in the wind.

Still waiting for a Democratic candidate here!

I would like to see a GIANT turn and redirect right here.

From Wikipedia

Wesley Kanne Clark (born December 23, 1944) is a retired General of the United States Army. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point, was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in PPE (Philosophy, Politics & Economics), and later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master’s degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the Army and the Department of Defense, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and a Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Clark commanded Operation Allied Force in the Kosovo War during his term as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO from 1997 to 2000.

On the other hand, John McCain, 894 out of 899. Crashed five planes or so, commanded a squadron on the way out. Let’s take his inventory compared to Clark as long as he wants to discuss it.

OK.. I have a dumb question. As a homeowner in the same general neighborhood as McShrub’s holiday place I think I am justified in asking, how the heck do you get away with not paying property tax for years and years? I can’t tell you how many pieces of mail and other assorted nastiness you get from the municipal authorities if you’re even slightly delinquent… So unless there’s another La Jolla somewhere….

Yes….

Frankly Jane I think the headline for this post should read, ‘Obama throws Clarke into McCain’s Woodchipper to Appease the Ghost of Tim Russert’.

‘I had to do it, Chris,’ said Obama speaking to Chris Matthews. ‘Axelrod and Schrum told me the voters love McCain and I have to show them that I do to. I just had to do it!’

By way of context, I’ll always rememember a “Meet the Press” from several years ago where Tim Russert demanded that the same Wesley Clark (a four-star general, mind you) disavow Michael Moore, who had introduced him at some event or appeared before him.

The game is rigged, so take a deep breath and don’t be surprised when this stuff happens. There’s no way to strategize around the corporate media.

WW II belies your argument.

In point of fact we, all Americans, are now indistinguishable from the ‘good Germans’ of the Reich.

Don’t agree?

Ask a relative of the over one million dead Iraqis what they think?

The McSame household no doubt has a phalanx of letter readers (lawyers) so they do not have have to trifle with the mail.

i agree also.

and i don’t even like clark. but he done good this time. gotta give credit where it’s due.

Try sending that to the Obama campaign.

I doubt anyone HERE disagrees with your contention.

so .. what.. they have a pile of about two hundred delinguent tax notices they’re letter openeres just ignored? And this man wants to be president?

from what i’m reading, it’s the willful and deliberate misreading and misquoting and misframing of clark’s comments by the bbq-sucking toadies in the national political press corps.

andrea greenspan and the yammering idiot, mika, were mighty verklempt this morning at the truth spoken about their beloved st john. and it continues with joe klein, chris cillizza and juliet eilpern all dissembling, misquoting and taking out of context clark’s remarks.

and propelling the propaganda on behalf of st john the tortured.

Exactly! Vapid Vapors Media wipin’ the bbq smears off their cocktail napkins.

and ouch! punaise@15, since local news announced today Obama’s coming to Fargo on Thursday.

Who would that be?

Excellent points, BUT..Not sure about the 5 or so plane crashes. The only place on the net I’ve tracked sourcing to 5 crashes is the swift boat crew. (wiki only mentions a couple)

Wes took one for the team?

they can just put the pig on auto-pilot and go suck Mai Thai’s by the pool.

I didn’t realize it was that time already. Vodka tonic coming right now.

No, he wants to just act president. Haliburton will still be in charge.

that just gave me the shivers.

Although I still support Obama, his recent stances SUCK. But… in truth it [FISA, Clark] is pretty much what I expected.

Well, Wes Clark was seriously wounded in Vietnam, and spent a year in a military hospital, a number of operations, and then he had to learn to walk again. Point should be made, it prepared him for nothing in particular, in fact his next assignment was to teach Economics at the Point for a year while he finished his rehab. He was once asked in an interview what he learned from the experience, and his reply was something like, “don’t run in front of someone with an AK47.”

If Obama and the beltway Democrats are afraid of this — we should not be. You only have to go to Clark’s books to get the basic information, and to comprehend why he plays down his experience of getting shot in Nam. Command is different from being in combat — though you are much more likely to be respected in the military if you have been in combat, and if like Clark, you wear several purple hearts along with the rest of your ribbons.

Clark won his four stars because he reorganized the Army Training Program after we shifted from a conscript army to a professional one — he wrote the training program, and then took command of the worst batallion in the army, and reconstructed it, according to his program, testing in the field his desk-top ideas. He then headed the National Training Center in California for four years, pushing the training program to all units. Command is about accomplishments such as this — it is not about either being shot-up or shot down.

http://economictimes.indiatime…..180187.cms

Oh.. here’s a link multimillion mcshrub’s ‘lil problem with taxation. Somehow, this story’s barely getting picked up in the North American press. It’s getting picked up in London and Asia for some reason.

Obama needs his surrogates to throw punches that he absolutely cannot throw. He cannot even imply things that we all know to be true or he will be decimated by the right wing and the MSM. Even after the Swiftboat lessons of 2004.

Would we all prefer that he not have to show such deference to that crazy old man? Sure. But he probably senses that that crazy coot will loose his cool anyway, so he shouldn’t contribute in any way. Let the surrogates do it.

Bob,

I’m half 3/4 German! My 100% German mother agrees with me 100 percent. I have not forgotten history and I speak truths which often offends! However I would beg to say you are not silent, so get over it aye! What is offensive is the silence in America from 2001 on. BTW being 1/2 German you must remember the Gliewitz incident aye!!

Plus, it’s making me think hard about how much ca$h I can chip in.

McCain will be a slight move in the right direction of Cheney Bush and Ted Stevens. Big Beer will will join the command team along with Big Oil.

SCHIEFFER: Can I just interrupt you? I have to say, Barack Obama hasn’t had any of these experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down.

CLARK: I don’t think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president.

I know once the Mighty Wurlitzer starts roaring context is irrelevant, but for the record Schieffer damn near mouthed the words for Clark.

Precisely!
This “impression” that “McCain was in the shit” over in Vietnam needs fleshing out. We can’t let it become a suit of armor.

Getting shot down does not prove leadership. It proves bad luck or bad piloting or that sooner or later, the odds catch up with every pilot. Surviving five years of the isolating brutality of a POW camp, whether in Hanoi or Gitmo, proves endurance, not leadership. It also suggests the possibility of longterm PTSD that the partial release of McSenile’s medical records, under absurdly controlled conditions, does nothing to answer.

Like George Bush, John McCain has not earned the leadership stripes of his dad or his grandfather. He led few men in combat. He didn’t lead for long or successfully. He hasn’t had an admiral’s responsibility of leading the fleet or the Chief of Staff’s responsibility of leading a service or all services. As President, McCain would have to lead all of us, not just his supporters or our armed services. He hasn’t shown any ability to do that at all.

I think Wes Clark, who has led armies in combat, is entitled to say that loud and clear.

Criticizing McCains war record is like criticizing Forrest Gump!

The voters are not going to vote for ‘Obama’s surrogates…’ Politics does not work that way. People must be convinced that the nominee can lead.

This is not how you do it.

Will be interesting to hear Schieffer on Imus’ show tomorrow. I’d also be interested in comments from soldiers like Col. Jack Jacobs who seems to be far too UN-vapid to still be punditizing much.

Have you spotlighted this post to Schieffer yet?

in the comments section of the time/swampland blog linked above in jane’s post at ’hissy fit’,
http://www.time-blog.com/swamp…..faced.html
people compared mccain’s fighter experience making him a good president being as relevant as it was to the careers of duke cunningham and gw bush.

or something like that…..they said it better…….pretty good comments on that article, could do a few posts just from the comments section there.

======am just catching up, what is the brew-ha ha mentioned from the obama camp about clark? i missed it. and no cable.

Sounds of Silence!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kd8xp86reY

It’s exactly how you do it.
Surrogates say the things the candidate cannot say and start a conversation, shielding the candidate from the fallout.
It was perfectly executed.

My standard reply to all cash calls from the Democratic party is NO until you get some balls. Replies to oshama’s fund raising letter is one word. FISA

My local blue candidates got their money today thru Blue America.

Signed.

Thanks for the link.

I’m skeptical. How was this an effective “punch”? Whose vote does Obama gain by having a discussion about McCain’s war record? He throws a life preserver to McCain when he allows him to noisily raise the subject of his biography instead of reminding the public this 4th of July how increasingly miserable and unmanageable their lives are, or how many pointlessly killed national guardsmen won’t be in the parade, because of Republicans like McCain.

oh.. here’s my answer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..8217;.html

A mere 3% of San Diego County homeowners default on property tax payments. So, the McShrubs are among the most 3% most civics-impaired people in this city.

What team?

The ‘Demcocrat’ Party lead by someone with no identifieable leadership skills is no ‘team’. It’s a collection of losers.

Until we change that we’ll continue to have folks like Obama blundering around shooting themselves in the foot.

Again….

and again…..

and again.

The real shame is that he had a damn parachute.

I guess this shitcans Clark’s chances for the VP slot.

McCain was also at the bottom of the list when he graduated and Clark at the top. Would it be unpatriotic to mention that for the MSM and St. McSame?

Thanks for that link to Klein’s comments. Lot’s of good comments.
Klein’s comment is wrong I think. He also apparently did no research on Clark’s combat experience (Gee, who wudda thunk?)

A couple of commenters there also don’t seem to know Clark served and was badly wounded in serious ground combat.

Put down the Kool-Aid pal.

We now have Obama on record as saying that what Clarke said was wrong.

When it was in fact…

…nothing more than the truth.

Do you have a transcript? I’m curious what the lead-in preceding Clark’s “command” comments was.

We’re in the silly season of the campaign. If the candidates have any damaging ammunition, they will save it for September/October. They have begun their slow pivots to the center- but they can’t go all the way yet until they’ve pulled in all the available cash from their “Bases”.

This isn’t even warm ups- it’s time filler.

I’ve always liked Schieffer, and thus was REALLyY disappointed to learn that he was a fan of Imus’. Now to learn that he’s going on that cesspool . . .

Yes, the last time I checked, there should be a group of supporters who are willing to question inconsistencies, etc. in the opposing candidate’s record in a public forum. The candidate should not have to do it all.

The reality is, this candidate does have to be careful about criticizing an older white man–it has nothing to do with a “change” candidate and everything to do with our country’s history. We shouldn’t ignore the subtext here. My guess is his advisors aren’t…

Unho Joe can say that Iraq would be under Iran’s and El Queda if Obama were president and we’d be hit with a terrorist attack but Clark can’t point out the obvious. Give me a break. MSM is no better than right wing talk radio.

According to the ‘Obama rules…’

Yes.

oldgold at 75–yes he did, and clark stepped right in it…….he should know better than to step in someone else’s sh!itpile……walk around it. dumb.

======

or, as many are saying here, was it smart to step in and fling it?

i do wonder, clark knows what he has discussed with the obama camp, and he knows what they want to get out there, wouldn’t be the first time he took one for the team.

or maybe he just fell in it.

so, i dunno.

I meant el qaeda sorry..

Those would be the ‘advisors’ who’ve lost the vast majority of campaigns over the last 30 years?

Those guys.

Your ‘theories’ of how politics ‘works’ are as deficient and your understanding of what the Obama campaign is all about.

I should also say that some of you may live in states where this undercurrent, or subtext, is inconsequential. You are lucky. Others do not. It cannot be ignored, it must be managed. Hence, the need for surrogates to deal with realities, do dirty work, whatever.

Yes, the reason Michael Moore knows and has supported Wes Clark is because Clark’s son is a Hollywood script writer, and has worked with Moore. The General knows Moore as an associate of his son.

As I understand the friendship — a good deal of it revolves around the religious identity of these people. Michael Moore is a very serious Roman Catholic — in fact, he once gave the seminary a try, thinking he wanted to become a priest. He is all about the Social Justice teachings, about which he has considerable passion. In fact all of Moore’s film work is a modern and secular discourse on this theme. Any critical study of Moore’s work really needs to address this point of departure stemming from his theological orientation. Moore is a daily mass attender. He is very serious.

Clark was a Catholic Convert when he married — he actually converted when he was serving in Nam. He too took it seriously, and after he retired from the Army, teamed up with several Jesuits from Georgetown, and developed a team-taught class dealing with military strategy and Catholic Teachings over the centuries regarding Jest War ideas. In about 2000 they taught the course in several Jesuit Colleges on the East Coast.

Thus the Clark-Moore friendship includes these interests — it is not just about being introduced at a political event.

clark done good. obama, not so much.

Did you ever hear of Spiro Agnew?

Jane, gotta tell ya, I LOVE your in-your-face-nail-it imagery from wood chipper to pig to Mai Thais by the pool.

The Repubs want to re-argue the VietNam War methinks. Back to my country right and wrong, or did many ever leave that place. Free floating anger and guilt they want to project outward in this country …. looking for a target … the most innocent target they can find.

I read there is more patriarchy in the average American home in recent years. More patriarchy in America, too, it seems. Authoritarian enthrallment.

The more horror that must not be denied, the more denial. Just be the aggressor, or be the enthralled, non-empowered enthrallee.

We need to rally round the truth and not let those turkeys … or rather, ostriches… get us down.

the Rovian way would be fully coordinated and calculated, with built-in plausible deniability. one gets the impression that this was more spontaneous – in which case the cleverness (if any) is only arrived at through retrospective reverse engineering.

Guess it doesn’t matter if what Clarke said was both truthful and germane to any voter’s decision to vote for.

No.

It’s all about ‘winning’.

Funny, when it’s pretty clear Obama has no idea of how to do that or, once he has won as he did his Senate seat, what to do once he has ‘won’.

Wes Clark speaks for me.

And I hope he says it again. It needs saying over and over: John McCain is unfit for command.

BREAKING: Former Iraqi detainees sue U.S. military contractors

when will they come after this traitorous shithead

I guess the bloom is off the Wes for VP bid.

Ewwwwww.

I think this is just as well. Democrats are kidding themselves if they think they can use military figures to “shore up national security credentials”, or whatever the cliche is. The amount of hostility — often outright slander on the part of our press against a Democrat in a uniform — or a dissident from imperialist orthodoxy in one — is insanely out of proportion to whatever perceived electoral benefits they might offer. Think Clark, Kerry, Ritter, Zinni.

Thanks. Now tell it to Tim Russert.

Maybe that’s why there’s all the faux outrage, the Republicans and their lapdogs in the media were worried about him.

Very well put.

Maybe. Many commenters here explore the deep waters of deep tactical politics.

Maybe this was a trial run to see how he would handle himself.

Maybe he already got turned down, so now he is free to speak the truth.

But in any case, Clark hit the mark and I hope, lit a spark that will lead us from the dark. (making up for no detectable pun in punaise this time, or did I miss something?)

Uh….yeah…

And that was 1972 pal.

And everyone knew who Nixon was. Agnew was used to smear folks. To attack the other side. To good effect.

Obama is not in the same position. Many folks do not know exactly who he is or what he stands for. No surprise there as he doesn’t seem to know those things either.

He needs to show the voters who he is by speaking directly to them.

Everyone already ‘knows’ straight talkin’, war-hero McCain.

Of course Obama has shown them a little more of himself now with his failure to back Clarke’s very good attack on McCain.

Just one more bit of evidence that Obama has no clue.

I can only hope that it was never on. There are plenty of non-military types that are more than capable of being VP. Enough with the killers already.

Jane said: “I understand why team Obama felt that they had to take such nuclear fissile material off the table as quickly as possible…”

Honestly, I can’t. If this sort of thing had happened in the primary against Clinton, Obama would have stood by Clark, gotten aggressive and gone on the offense, and changed the narrative in a way that neatly pivoted the issue back on Clinton’s camp.

But now that we’re in the general, Obama has suddenly and thoroughly moved to the right, not just on substantive issues, but on process issues too. It’s actually quite unsettling and depressing just how quickly and completely Obama has become a “traditional” Democrat since June 3. Seriously, name a single issue where Obama has taken a strong stand on any issue that pushed back against the Republican/Village narrative since he won the nomination. Because as far as I can see, he hasn’t. Gay marriage? That issue has been co-opted by the Village because they see the handwriting on the wall, even if McCain hasn’t. But otherwise, Obama has become, for all intents and purposes, John Kerry a la 2004. Shoot me now.

Fuck the Village and the focus groups. Obama could have used this issue perfectly to skewer McCain’s foreign policy experience AND burnish his credentials to be President by going to bat for Clark just by insisting that the Republican memes about leadership and military experience don’t play anymore. He did it on race with his amazing speech after the Reverend Wright affair, and he could have done it here. But no.

My question is, why? Seriously? Who is he taking advice from? Because since June 3, it’s as if Axelrod and Plouffe got replaced by Shrum and Penn. And it’s so fucking depressing to be living in 2004 again. Seriously.

while both this general and his president are clearly culpible, one could ask which one is really the traitor… the Chief Exec who makes war on the Constitution or the general who carries out the Chief Exec’s pleasure?

I would have liked this “unfit” notion, too, if Democrats were capable of pulling it off. It encompasses a Rovian attack on McCain’s perceived strength with a suggestion of his age and decreptitude. Sigh. We’ll just have to let McCain’s manifest lunacy, age and decrepitude make our case for us.

If Obama had said what Clark said, his campaign would be seriously injured. Even if Obama were a combat veteran, a lot of Americans wouldn’t allow him to say what Clark said. They would just slot him into the angry black man category. Clark can say it and he’s still viable for the VP job or at least Defense.

Ah…

He has two strikes against him to begins with. He’s….

White…

and

Male…

By the way I’ve met and talked with Clarke and he is, in my opinion, what we used to call a ‘Great American’ before the likes of PumpkinHaid and Tweety made those words worthless.

That Obama can cheerfully throw Clarke to the wolves has sealed the deal for me.

I’ sooner cut off my hand than vote for Barkey.

Dalton said Myers was aware that the military services believed the interrogation techniques might be against the law. “It is my recollection that he was aware of these concerns and that I made him aware of those concerns,” she said.

no one has to obey an illegal order – and recall his successor’s very public “correction” of Rumsfeld on this issue

…or did I miss something?)

you can actually take the occasional comment at face value. :~)

Can’t say it now.

Obama has repudiated him.

All Obama had to do was keep his mouth shut.

But he’s too worried about what the ‘Villagers’ would think.

Can you spell ‘Dukakis’.

I can.

For the worryworts:

http://www.pollster.com/

click ‘national’ at top of the page

—

the reports of a slow start in coordinated national media campaign worrying me, though. Is this just delay caused by revamping from primary. Have any in Obama’s team run a national campaign before. I guess I can see why McCain might get a small jump on Obama -McCain has had no distractions other than his own flip-flops and gaffes for past several months.

Exactly.
Right on point – Clark and Obama disagree – BFD!
Obama avoids the inevitable “didn’t serve” bullshit, and Clark speaks his mind, opening up a very important topic.

ps – I too am glad Clark said it. however, his ‘uniform’ could have been more effectively utilized on an attack on McCain and GI Bill

Nope. Just plain wrong.
Obama has this perfect.

Well said.

But now that we’re in the general, Obama has suddenly and thoroughly moved to the right, not just on substantive issues, but on process issues too. It’s actually quite unsettling and depressing just how quickly and completely Obama has become a “traditional” Democrat since June 3.

As Katrina Vanden Heuvel said on ABC’s talking head show yesterday, Obama needs to go back to his “new politics” meme and stop trying to play the usual games, he’s just hurting his own brand.

It would seem to me anyone who has seen the “horror” of war is less inclined to take a “shotgun approach” to “war,” unless absolutely required. Zee “silver spoons in derrières” corpo-aristocrats who have decimated the constitution under the color of law as forewarned by Jefferson have no problem sending people to premature death to further corporate oil’s interests in Iraq and now Iran, according to S. Hirsh, while their service was at best questionable? McCain the war hero and the hundred years war for oil? What is the next Gleiwitz like incident to predicate a war on for corporate greed and profit and the perpetuation of the very costly oil delivery system for the very powerful oil interests who desire our addiction to their form of stored potential energy, like a drug dealer or a tobacco dealer. Then again I do not expect many to get it!! Look at the would through the lenses of instilled addictions via the “men in little black boxes” feared by Kierkegaard!

but obama doesn’t have choose to retreat or to repeat what clark said. the idea, i thought, was to take advantage of clark’s opening to move the ball forward, but in a way that now seems respectable and reasonable after clark’s move to expand the overton window.

obama’s retreat just makes him look weak to me. but maybe there is more to his response than i am aware of? would love youtube, etc links if that is so.

I think Mike has hit the nail squarely.
You need to face up to the issue of Mccain’s so-called experience–foreign policy experience, executive experience, his temperment, his intelligence, his foresight.
being a TORTURED POW would demonstrate his strength of character–but none of the other qualities.
this issue of mccain’s suitability to lead needs to be faced. that is all they have cause they dont have the issues.

Hersh is really getting the word out about being ready to go in Iran…in part, because W doesn’t think the next generation will have the courage to do it. What he says is scary beyond word, all the ways they have downplayed the NIE about Iran bombs..Nuts.

punaise at 108–yeah, that’s partly what i was wondering in my comment, he knows what they want to get out there, and in that spontaneous moment blurbed something that had been tossed around……

the reverse engineering part-well, dems seem to just ’wing it’, no matter the fight, no matter the strategy, that must be the strategy……so, they oughtta be good at ’r e’ by now. lol

What is the next Gleiwitz like incident to predicate a war on for corporate greed

Remember the Maine

Signaling independence from Clark’s view is a good thing. I’m not saying it’s worthy of God-like status, but it’s superb politics.
Did anyone think that this was fencing, or some honorable pursuit?
McCain is caught flatfooted and his reply is to whine. That is where we want him every day.

Selise, anything that he says on this subject will be packaged in such a way by the Faux News/swift boat/Rethug crowd that will be worse than looking “weak.” Basically, they’ll package/edit it so that it looks like a young, smart assed black man slamming a poor, old, white veteran.

your Senator Kerry – has stepped it up quite nicely -

“Colonel Day’s comments today only further highlight the McCain campaign’s disregard for a new kind of politics,” said Kerry. “John McCain condemned these kinds of attacks in 2004 when he called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ‘dishonest and dishonorable.’ Senator McCain should condemn these remarks and cut ties with the Colonel and anyone else connected to SBVT. Day’s comments only serve to disparage all those who served on swift boats in Vietnam.”

Yup… The only “ace card” left for W and this dysfunctional lot is to start war for the political benefit of the war hero?????

revbev at 137–hersch was on terry gross’ fresh air today…….npr……..sorry no link.

bbl

Yes, a defensive whiner, day in and day out. With flashes of rage and delusional ravings. Cool.

Not my Senator – I have Difi and Boxer. But yeah…

sorry newtonusr – thought I was responding to Selise

Yep. Keep him back-peddling, always defensive. Always punching and hitting… air.

According to a repub. spokesman on MSNBC, John McCain never, never uses his service record in his run for president. Was anyone else watching, maybe I miss took what she meant or else she lies, or lives under a rock.

Schieffer’s lead-in, by the way, was Joe Lieberman’s comments. So if anyone was setting anyone up, it was CBS news setting up Clark with their neocon frame. Clark actually tries a “new politics” defense of Obama in the face of Schieffer’s attack, but Schieffer is ready with the “untested and untried” quote of Clark’s he has (I’m curious where that came from, by the way). Here’s the transcript:

Bob Schieffer: With us now from Little Rock, Arkansas Retired General Wesley Clark. He was for Hillary Clinton during the primaries. Once Hillary was out of it, he announced that he was supporting Barack Obama. And let’s get right to it here, General. You heard what Senator Lieberman said. He said that Barack Obama is simply more ready to be President than, than Barack Obama. (sic)

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think Bar- I think Joe has it exactly backwards here. I think being President is, is about having good judgment. It’s about the ability to communicate. As one of the great Presidential historians Richard Newsted said, “The greatest power of the Presidency is the power to persuade.” And what Barack Obama brings is incredible communication skills, proven judgment. You look at his meteoric rise in politics, and you see a guy who deals with people well, who understands issues, who brings people together and who has good judgment in moving forward. And I think what we need to do, Bob, is we need to stop talking about the old politics of left and right, and we need to pull together and move the country forward. And I think that’s what Barack Obama will do for America.

Bob Schieffer: Well you, you went so far as to say that you thought John McCain was, quote, and these are your words, “untested and untried,” And I must say I, I had to read that twice, because you’re talking about somebody who was a prisoner of war. He was a squadron commander of the largest squadron in the Navy. He’s been on the Senate Armed Services Committee for lo these many years. How can you say that John McCain is un- untested and untried? General?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy making, it’s a matter of understanding risk. It’s a matter of gauging your opponents, and it’s a matter of being held accountable. John McCain’s never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn’t held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn’t a wartime squadron. He hasn’t been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn’t seen what it’s like when diplomats come in and say, ‘I don’t know whether we’re going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it-’

Bob Schieffer: Well-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: ‘ -it publicly.’ He hasn’t made those calls, Bob.

Bob Schieffer: Well, well, General, maybe-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So-

Bob Schieffer: Could I just interrupt you. If-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Sure.

Bob Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don’t think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.

Bob Schieffer: Really?!

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But Barack is not, he is not running on the fact that he has made these national security pronouncements. He’s running on his other strengths. He’s running on the strengths of character, on the strengths of his communication skills, on the strengths of his judgment. And those are qualities that we seek in our national leadership.

Bob Schieffer: Well, let me ask you this. Senator Obama announced yesterday that he’s going to Europe and to the Middle East. Most people think that he’ll probably stop off in Iraq where he hasn’t been in more than two years. Why now?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think this is a good opportunity. It’s a window of time. The Convention is late in the calendar this year, and he’s got the window of time to go overseas, meet with foreign leaders. You know, we were meeting with him the other day and as he said he doesn’t want to count his chickens before he, before they hatch. But he recognizes this country is in such a plight, both at home and abroad that no one can contemplate taking the office of the Presidency without having some very good ideas about what needs to be done from the get-go. There’s not a learning period in this job. The next President’s going to have to step right into the job. He’s going to have to have the policies there. And I think Barack is taking a, a very sensible view of this by going abroad and meeting firsthand the leaders at this critical moment in, in times of America’s needs abroad.

Bob Schieffer: General, what do you think would be the impact, let’s say on Iran, on the neighborhood around Iraq if in fact Senator Obama is elected and he does announce that he’s going to bring back the troops on a specific time schedule? As Senator Lieberman said, he’s totally discounting things that could happen along the way. Would he follow that schedule no matter what?

After the nomination had been decided, didn’t you advocate writing in Hillary Clinton in November? If so, is that what you still advocate?

You said it much better than I did.

all the more outrageous when you consider his invoking POW meme when eulogizing their colleague Russert

I’m going to qualify my 39.

Clark’s attack was a big net win for Democrats and Obama.

You’re right. We’re doomed I tell you all doomed.

and did everyone see how he got all the way to a third sentence before invoking Hanoi in his meeting with Billy and Franklin Graham . . . this is a Saturday Night Live skit waiting to be written

I don’t see a statement by Obama, but here’s Axelrod making a statement to Andrea Greenspan.

Yep. He’s becoming Rudy – one issue – Nam instead of 911.

Oh yeah. Heck I could even write that one.

ygm at yahoo (re: road trip to Hutto)

oops, maybe I should have just left it at ygm?

Here it is

http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=92025860

Schieffer’s loyalaties and connections are solidly with the Republican Party; do a little investigation on him and his brother Tom and stop watching this toad.
As an FYI I wrote some reporters at Bloomberg -Cswann1@bloomberg.net and bmcquillen@bloomberg.net saying “Wesley Clark was kind to McCain considering what he could have said. When is the mainstream media going to give exposure to this story?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..07409.html

And have not received a reply.

Signaling independence from Clark’s view is a good thing

but that’s not what happened, is it? burton’s statement sure seems to me like both a repudiation of clark’s statement and an acceptance of the rightwingnut frame – which is quite different from independence.

obama is much better than me at this, but why not something like: “well, i admire and honor senator mccain’s service – but general clark has a point: that neither senator mccain’s time as a pow nor general clark’s time recovering from his very serious wounds make either of them foreign policy experts. their expertise was developed by their work during the years since those experiences.”

no repudiation of clark
no acceptance of the rightwing frame
but far more “reasonable” sounding when compared to clark
and most importantly – it draws attention to the deficit in mccain’s work and expertise when compared to clark’s.

obviously, ymmv.

I hope not. Wes Clark would be Obama’s best VP choice, IMHO. And remember, a VP is supposed to be an attack dog.

Bob in HI

O’m sorry Obama accepted the right wing frame that Clark was questioning McCain’s patriotism

It seems like it’s one of two things: either Obama got the endorsement and decided it was time to veer sharply to the right; or upon winning the endorsement Obama was offered the advice of Democratic party insiders, maybe even the same brilliant minds who advised Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, and is unfortunately listening to it.

I hope it’s the latter, because there’s a chance he could realized what’s going on and stop listening to these people…

Agreed.

Bob in HI

I would guess that the whole purpose is for Obama to stay outside of the argument because he can’t answer the questions which would follow any statements he would make supporting Clark. Clark does have the credentials to make the point and then respond to the following questions by pointing out that Obama is not running on experience, rather on judgement. I would guess that Clark is on board with the whole thing anyway. Surely he didn’t just jump in and start making the point as a freelance last minute Obama supporter.

1,689 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher:

I jest got off the phone with my favorite punchin’ bag, the Obama Campaign (1-866-675-2008 option6) and told the stressed young staffer that after hearin Obama’s attack on MoveOn and “some of those from the ’60’s” (which includes me a alotta other vets) not only was I not gunna contribute another dime to the campaign (last week’s position) but now I would not vote for ‘im either. The staffer was quite anxious to convince me otherwise and would not answer me when I asked if the campaign was gettin more calls like mine.

There has been some discussion these last few dayz about what can we do to take the progressive blog power offline and into the streets. I think it’s time to organize a progressive truth squad to pack the streets of Denver to force Obama and the Democratic Party to commit to gettin outta Iraq and stop attackin’ grassroots progressive organizations. The only way we get a progressive President Obama is people power and the threat of losin’ the election. We can survive a McCain presidency if we have super majorities in the house and Senate but we can’t survive another Clintonesque tent show.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE MUST KEEP ON FIGHTIN’!!

you would be most welcome !

didn’t see it – but have a feeling you sent it to the addy (clydeenxxx)clogged with ‘group’ messages. I’ve just cleaned that out so kindly re send. :D

if Obama starts to get all wobbly on Iraq we’ll know for sure that the DLC borg got to him.

Let’s see it’s June 30 and Obama is trying to “run out the clock” .

Disappointing to see Obama cower to the corporate media/GOP frame on this. It’s gonna be a long campaign

He still has 26 Amendemdments to run down….to get through ‘em all by November, he’ll have to gut one every few days.

A to-fer: He can chew up clock time and the Constitution!

crap. a two-fer

I believe that Wes Clark has earned the right to his opinion, as does every American.

He backs his up with brains and experience.

That’s something that nobody should repudiate/diminish/disrespect, imho.

One can choose to disagree with anyone, but all this ”honoring St. John” makes me puke.

a TPM reader thinks it’s brilliant strategy:

Am I the only one who thinks that the Obama campaign is winning big here and that the media is being played badly? The conversation has begun – “it’s out there” as they say – does McCain’s record as a (not-very-good) fighter jock and POW more than thirty years ago in some way qualify him to be Commander-in-Chief? At the same time, Obama “rejects the statement” and “honors and respects Senator McCain’s service.” How is Obama hurt by this?…

Done.

I’ll go along with that.

SouthernDragon @ 177.

me too.

Tweety saying McCain wants sit-down debates.

I will refrain from making short jokes out of respect for any of our vertically challenged firepups. ; )

As long as MSM points out that Clark did not diss his service to country. MSM is doing a slightly better job this afternoon but Morning Joe said it was an attack on the service to his country. It wasn’t….

I know I am hours late, I was over on TPM Election Central commenting on Barack’s patriotism speech.

Just wanted to say that was excellent bio data on General Clark’s leadership & executive experience in Sara’s post @69.

I did say that. Could be a good idea….

Could be a bad one….

Pretty damn early and…

I’m struggling to open my mind to an Obama candidacy but every day I wake up and while I’m brushing my teeth I wonder….

Did anything happen of significance in the campaign today and….

Many times something has.

Obama is, so far, proving to be exactly who I thought he is. A guy who watching someone surf or skateboard or play baseball or any complex activity which takes years to master sez to himself,

‘Shoot, I can do that that ain’t so hard…’

And promptly falls on his incompetent face. Does not help that he’s got he Dead Stupid Clown Caucus to ‘help’ him.

Citizen selise:

You are right on and it’s time we start talkin about bringin’ “some of those from the 60’s” and a whole bunch of former Obama supporters to the streets of Denver to show ‘im that he can’t win without us and that we can still get super majorities in the house and Senate to survive a McCrazy term as President but we won’t tolerate another Clintonesque corporate comedy…a DLC Obama presidency kills democracy dead in this country.

Yeow!

Now yer talkin’

Lots of good information from Sara, indeed Fractal.

If you have not already…

Read his books.

Prepare to be very, very unhappy.

Starts?

Just got in from work so hadn’t had time to read the comments. From the transcript from brendanx at 150 I don’t have a problem with what Clark said. Schieffer has been leaning more and more to the right the older he’s gotten. There was a time when he would have agreed with the CinC statement. Now it seems he’s just another fenderhead. Sad. Time to join your old friend Bill Safire, Bob.

Me, I’m not the pearl-clutching type, so I’ll just sit back and watch it fade away.

Looseheadprop is upstairs.

No.

I’m not ‘doomed’.

The really progressive Dems ‘we’ are all gonna get elected to the House, Senate later, are not ‘doomed’. The folks who are ‘doomed’ are the money-grubbing, lying, human waste masqureading and Democrats. The nation can no longer afford a govenment of AssMonkeys licking each others balls in turn and calling it

DEMOCRACY!

It’s time to take our government back.

One school board…

One transit authority…

One County commision….

One State Central Committee…

One State House….

One seat in ‘The Peoples’ House’….

at a time.

No messin’

Otherwise…..

Idiots like Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer et. al. will be destroying any chance….

Any chance whatsoever that our children will live in a country to be proud of.

Jane’s pointing the way. Get behind her. Get your friends behind her and if they won’t….

Get new friends.

citizen norske – i missed the ’60s (being just a kid then). and i was in my 40s before i even thought to participate in any kind of protest. so, i have a lot of catching up to do – but if you’re willing to teach, i’d like to learn.

fabulous transcript, brendan. Thank you. Clarke knocked some fat ones right out of the park. The “getting shot down” line was a tiny piece of a much longer, much more precise discounting of McCain’s record.

Jane,

I couldn’t have worded it better myself. McCains war experience must be a topic that we can all discuss without being called “american haters” or whatever.

It’s an entirely legitimate question of whether or not getting shot down in a plane constitutes commander-in-cheif experience.

..and the answer is it doesn’t!

Well said Jane!

gotta run, sorry to leave the Lake.

A four star general knows what experience is. A pilot with 23 hours of combat time doesn’t have a lot to do with the enemy. what bullshit. Clark tells the truth and even Obama can’t understand it.
What have we got ourselves into?

“if Obama starts to get all wobbly on Iraq we’ll know for sure that the DLC borg got to him.”

I think you’re right: The DLC borg is definitely attempting to assimilate Barack. Let’s hope he wakes up in time to fight it off before the assimilation is complete.

Bob in HI

When the country is in a tailspin, getting shot down in a plane is considered valuable experience in Bushworld.

- Tom ;-)

Having just seen Brian Williams NBC News, your last graph is too, sadly, too true. Sound bite totally out of context, slam/spin, rinse, repeat….

Compliant media is too, too kind, Jane.

Fundamentals of defense and counterattack: Twilight Samurai (youtube), Iguchi Seibei’s first fight, against a bully who shares much of the town’s slight regard for him.

I guess I’m losing touch with the changing world. But, I seem to remember a time when the “Aces” (in other words the creme de creme of military pilots) were the ones that DIDN’T get shot down. Just sayin’

You always Rawk Jane!

This incident makes me think back on the Samantha Power incident. I was dismayed and disappointed she would be “ejected” that quickly from the roster of BO consultants!

Granted, she was inappropriate dissing Hillary to a journalist with the name “monster”, but no one had her back for a millisecond. She was evidence BO was inviting non-Washington power insiders onto his team. She was a talented journalist who won a Pulitzer. She had told truth to power re Rowanda genocide and about Israeli-Palestinian issues.

But when the Clinton team reflected the histrionic indignation the Repugs have employed all these years, she was GONE GONE GONE in a NYC minute. Saying something mean-spirited to Hillary as if Hillary (the queen of hard-ball campaigning) were made of glass — I wanted BO at that point to acknowledge the slip, but support Power’s gifts and potential to his campaign….. for God’s sakes… she won a Pulitzer! … and mistakes were made …. but this all-or-nothing gamesmanship, walking on THEIR egg shells mentality … and in this case THEIR egg shells were our own Hillary Dems … THIS SCENARIO made me sad.

And now Axelrod … why is HE commenting on Clark’s statement … starts apologizing for what Clark did not even say. Axelrod stressing BO honored McCain’s heroism in Vietnam. So did Clark, Axelrod!! Why is Axelrod acting apologetic for something that did not happen. And why not go with the assertion that McCain does not have leadership qualities. Are we afraid to let anyway out there know this perspective?

BO and operators afraid to hurt feelings of people who think McCain is superior military leader? Learn to let go of what you don’t have, Barack!

As for the press.. Andrea Mitchell et al. … games alocholics drama addicts play… “Let’s you and him fight….” MSM and Repugs keep inviting Dems to play lose/lose games and they do it.

Sorry, try this:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..n_9-1.html

The key – “burton’s statement”. you said it right there.
Senator Obama cannot be seen to enter into minutiae about this – he isn’t qualified, and he’s better off above it.
Obama did not say a word about McCain’s service, and let one surrogate get the story out there while another stood between McCain and the press, and Obama.
Clark is a big boy. He can not only take it, but now he’s engaged in a debate about McCain’s qualifications – exactly where Obama needs him.

Great response ACitizen! You get it! The term “Silent German” is a historical analogy placed in context of today! I’m of German heritage also and very aware of the German people’s silence and the cost the world paid. My relatives in Nazi Germany were executed for their attempt(s) to assassinate Hitler and end his fascist/terrorism which killed millions in zee name of zee Homeland!

Afghanistan kills more troops than Iraq for the first time. Obama thinks that Afghanistan is the “good war” so he’d better come up with some plans for the this Clusterfuck. We put a guy in power who has no power- and now those who do have power are fighting back…the war that killed the Soviet Union is back with an all new cast!

My dad was shot down in WWII, and he’d have made a miserable president.