g’morning elliot and early morning firdogs!

anyone see this?:

mccain’s jailer first endorses mccain for the office and then calls him a liar saying mccain was never tortured

on this I would believe mccain over his jailor, that’s for sure but it is interesting

Elliot!

Morning guys, that was a little bit of site maintenance. Squirrels are back to work.

What are you doing for the 4th? I’m going to a Philadelphia picnic — good food, good friends but not a trip down to the big fireworks display.

No plans here really, maybe the shore, maybe not.

I wish I were at the shore right now! It’s AC weather. :(

Can we please get Wes on simultaneously with Lieberman? Just to see what kind of self-control the General has.

Plans for the 4th – marching in the local parade!
Heading out to a “Breakfast on the farm” in a few minutes, so I won’t be able to watch the shows today. I wonder if my kids are going to wake for this…

Yes I know what you mean. Gone are the days of hoping in the car and driving to the shore. It’s too expensive for gas. It’s one of those things I used to love about this area. Now it’s a budget consideration.

Can we please get Wes on simultaneously with Lieberman? Just to see what kind of self-control the General has.

i dislike both lieberman and clark, but if they are on together even i’d want to watch. it’s the season for fireworks after all.

As is my masochistic Sunday morning custom, I read Maureen Dowd in the NYT’s. Today’s column was a few half-baked ideas looking for a place to hide in randomly sequenced paragraphs. In a junior high publication, this mess would have been sent back for a rewrite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06…..ref=slogin

Gotta say that I liked Rep. Wexler on Colbert this week, glad to see him coming to the Book Salon today, too bad I’ll be doing doors when he’s going to be here.

It should be a lively discussion.

Doing Doors, do you mean refinishing some or knocking on some?

Good morning. I’m looking forward to Barbara Slavin on WJ in a couple of minutes.

Good morning, pups. We gotta get those squirrels some vitamins…

Knocking on doors, getting signatures to get on the ballot, asking for donations. The campaign season is in full swing.

mornin’ elliot and pups!!

lookiing forward to the wexler book salon!!

the 4th? i’m gonna be goin’ over across the state–seein’ my trigger points doc on the way into town, then friday making pizzas at my mom’s elks for her monthly pizza night fundraiser with my mom, dad, sister………mom does all of the homemade ingredients, except for sauce, cheese and pepperoni and we use pizza shells……we have a blast…..i think we made around 50 last time……they’re really good!

and the rest of the time visiting with my uncle and poppin’ in and out down the street from parents’ at best friends’ house where their daughter is now home newly graduated with honors from mt. holyoke…….and here i thought she was goofin’ off…….. and lunch with my other best friend and hangin’ at his arts supply store…….probably a cook-out on saturday at friends’ house. she got the ’angel’ dvd’s a while back, so, we’ll probably watch a few of those over the time i am there, heh………she got me hooked on buffy a while back, have watched them all, three (or more) times…….and i don’t like creepy and horror stuff……but i do like good writing…….what a show.

=======
thanks for including religion and ethics in your line-up, is a good show, i have gotten great tips from it and further info from a wide variety of sources in all kinds of subjects.
=========
’to the contrary’ i always watch, too, but am still watching with one eye squinched, hope they get there someday. been watching long long time……if not for eleanor holmes-norton, would have stopped a long time ago……used to be a ’play nice and don’t say anything’ tea party, light fare, now trying to ’get tough’ but is like a girl fight where they keep swinging and missing and lose their balance and fall down and stop from exhaustion……….sorry, but it is. except when jane is on……feel like a traitor every time i say that, but is the only all-female show and they could do better…….i keep hoping.
=========
a really well-done show is ’state of ohio’ on pbs here…
http://www.statenews.org/
all ohio statehouse news and interviews…karen kasler does a good job. neutral, just the facts ma’am in her interviews and news…..rare. she covers a lot of ground in a halfhour and has good interviews about all issues.
can watch online.

=======
and for pups who missed it, jane made a flickr page for firepups to join, don’t have to be a member to view the photos of people who joined, kathryn in ma put up photos from ecahn’s gathering, some interesting things on pups’ pages, i have really enjoyed it….. since finding the lake i have really enjoyed the blogs and the photos people post. i like seeing what different places look like…..

http://www.flickr.com/groups/776591@N20/

i’ve been having fun with my new flickr page, click on my name to go to it…..will be adding more later, for now, is photo of me, photos from home that i took the other day and some art……fire pictures are just a sample from a project i was working on a while back, are not blown-up or re-touched, are as is….almost melted the video camera doing it, then my friend bill built a computer for me to transfer video to photos…..

sorry so wordy.

and the earth shook this week, literally-sen. voinavich voted with the democrats on the medicare bill, one of the only repubs, send him some phone love, this was RARE and big…..i still can’t believe it. thought it was a typo!!! dunno, but i’ll take it.

ok, time for local call-in show.

go get ’em pups!!!!!

Well, at our house, July the 4th weekend always includes a birthday celebration for me. We will be bbq-ing a turkey. I’m checking out Mike Arcuri’s schedule to see if he’ll come down to our end of the district during the holiday(and if so, he’s going to get a visit from me – you can be assured of that).

oh, and, thanks to the pups who say what is happening on the sunday shows for those of us without cable or local stations….i only get pbs, you have to have an antennae to get charleston or columbus stations here, so, i appreciate being informed by pups watching them….plus even if you have cable or antennae, you can’t see them all anyway….i used to tape one and watch another, really……..

bbl

Just added two pics to the Flickr group, thanks for the heads up!

Surprise surprise, Fox News going on about Obama and his flip flops.
(now there’s a summer memory, slapping around in flip flops)

Have enjoyed your pics dmac, will check out the Ohio website. Here, we have a PA version of CSPAN. A lot of public interest interviews.

PCN is a non-profit cable network, C-SPAN for Pennsylvania, covering PA House and Senate, PA History, business, books, sports, people, culture.

and I share your frustration with To The Contrary.

Elliot — thanks… and did I read someone wishing you a Happy Birthday yesterday? Hope it was a great one if it was.

No tv for me right now, so getting talking heads info from reading and internet… thanks… Wes Clarke was told by a friend of mine in the know he is on very short list for VP. Don’t know him well… but points for affability from him FWIW … he has the tv appeal…yeah.. I know that should not be our main measure… but this is America..

Desmond Tutu came out tough abuot Mugabe… good for him…what kind of maniac takes over the election but then still forces people to vote for him in a crazymaking charade… that is particularly chilling. Now let us see if more leaders will be mensches about this maniac.

I was so disappointed about FISA that I am disheartened and I need to shake it off and make use of Feingold’s time he got for all of us, and to send a “spirited” email yet again to my personal network asking them to make those calls…and I need to get on the phone again. Wonder if anyone has the link of votes from the senate on FISA cloture so I can aim myself and friends at the weak-knee-ed disappointing Dems in particular. Thanks for the toll free numbers and the renewal of hope. Look at what Tom Paine et al. went through. Risking life and limb. We must keep on fighting.

I heard a radio show with apologists for Obama. “He needs to go right to win.” But someone pointed out dreaded GW won by supporting his base. I hope Obama doesn’t think courting the “center” means ignoring the constitution. Looks like it. And are Dems so broken down from Rep. longevity they will abide it?

OMG. Slavin’s going over the enemy. WJ host sez she’s going to join Washington Times.

Yeah, I heard that. What do you think it is, the money? It must have been a lot. Or did she convert to Moonie?

Barr is on Fox News Sunday talking about FISA and his differences with both candidates. I missed most of the Rendell interview and I’m not sure that I can stay through the roundtable. Wallace is going after Barr on the defense of marriage act trying to discredit him.

Will Wolfman ask Jindal about the exorcism he performed? Will he even ask him about science education?

Happy Almost Birthday!

As a kid we used to go to my relatives near Cleveland. Always fun, swimming in the Lake, and we have lots of end of June birthdays in the family so always the birthday cakes and pleas for the icing roses. My mother was a twin so we have matching cousins. So I often stayed for a month or even more, we had a ball.

(thanks libbyliberal, I had a delightful day, will be celebrating the 4th with friends and later a pack of us, including my twin cousin, celebrate even more down at the shore. :)

short answer..no

It’ll be interesting to see if/how she changes with her new association. I have appreciated her insights on Iran so far, but will be much more skeptical in the future.

Good morning, Elliot. Good morning, folks.

Corn. Mmmm?

now that would be a clip to save, but I doubt it’ll happen, he is a republican after all.

Barr said he was wrong on his vote on Iraq and the Patriot Act only because he did not realize that if you give Bush an inch he’ll take a mile. He did not know that it was the intention of the government to occupy Iraq. He came across pretty good but living in GA, I still know that he’s an odd dude.

Wes Clarke was told by a friend of mine in the know he is on very short list for VP

oh, no. if that happens i’m pretty sure it will be the last straw (as though fisa wasn’t enough) and i’ll be voting for someone other than obama come november.

Your vote, your choice but if you live in a state that’s iffy, you might as well just vote for McSame.

Hey good morning Kirk!

yeah, corn. I didn’t realize it was in everything on our plates.

Here’s Purdue’s celebration of King Corn

I went to Penn State, majored in horticulture (I grow very nice weeds, thank you.) I can see how industry has effectively infiltrated the Land Grant system. Of course, the schools want to work with the people in the business of agriculture but we’ve had a real takeover by the megacorps. I think that’s partly how so many farmers got in over their heads back in the ’80s

Is it Sunday morning? Must be. Elliot’s on top of it.
I’m going camping at the beach next weekend. Lucked out and got a reservation at the last minute. And, I think my wayward son will be going with us.
He showed up here, two hours ago. Yes, that would be 4:30 am. Thank God he made it safely. He was, ummm, drunk. Something about a fight with his roomates, said I’m going to my Momma.
We talked. He showered. I fed him and he’s all tucked in bed now.
What’s a mother to do? The good thing is he said he made it here on fumes…well, both kinds I guess. Car’s outta gas. That’s the good part. I told him I was chaining him to his bed. Ha Ha. He said fine.

McCain has online game. “Pork invaders.” McCain is going after “pork” benefits in Congress. Something about shooting cubes of Velveeta (did I actually hear that right?) against pieces of pork.

No, no, no, no, no. We are the peasant. They (the top 2 percent) are “the people.”

Tell me more about W. Clarke. Sorry I am ignorant to a great extent. I thought he was a “recovered” militarist. But maybe not recovered? Obama trying to get security points I am sure.

Toby, besides FISA, Arcuri’s also a co-sponsor of that bill suggesting a military blockade of Iran. I’d like an explanation on that too.

You know I agree with you about Clark. However, what’s the alternative? Maybe not vote for prez?

You too? What’s wrong with Clark? Is this about Bosnia and Kosovo?

I wish Wolf would ask Jindal about the hurricane not causing major oil spills. It killed the fishing and oyster industry for months and months. Maybe he forgot that also.

What IS our alternative? I’m so confused, I’m numb. But, I did re-register as a Non-Affiliated just two days ago. That’s something, let them know why I no longer prefer to classify myself as a Democrat. But, yeah, who do we vote for?

I love Michael Pollin’s observation that corn has effectively enlisted us to serve it. Especially here in the US, the acreage devoted to corn (subsidized) has greatly increased, suporting whole (subsidized) industries that do stuff with the resultant “corn bubble”.

Just glancing at the Prudue page is enough to make one cry. The article on continuous corn produciont ( a great way to deplete soils and maximize use of fertilizer/pesticides (fossil fuel) is followed by one on corn smut.

Of course, continued planting of the same crop — especially across lagre areas — is the best possible way to create vast petri dishes for smut and other diseases to feast upon….

Congrats on the nice weeds, btw *g*

i don’t see it that way (although i know that some people do). here’s something that mary wrote over at emptywheel that makes a great deal of sense to me:

What they do is to take the base for granted and act to pick up those who are not in the base. So if you want to have any negotiating power, you have to be something other than the base. You have to be the votes that they have to work to capture, not the givens. And that means being willing to not be captured if they aren’t going to come through, IMO. Which means you have to be committed to the long haul, not the short run

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..anne_Clark

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Acxiom

http://www.counterpunch.org/serbia.html

Since you are certainly more of an expert than I, I appreciated Clark’s comments about a strong middle class being the foundation of America when he was running for President. He taught economics at West Point and seemed well versed.

I would simply stay home, or leave the presidential ballot choice blank — but I cannot stomach the chance that those of us who do that would usher in the McInsane regime. If enough of us do that, we could throw the election to McInsane.

Am reading the PHR Broken Laws, Broken Lives. It is sad and difficult reading, but I would urge everyone who thinks about a vote (or not voting) in November download the PDF, read it — and then think about the consequences of John McInsane in the WH.

Yep. Clark loves to bomb. I got accused of being impolite to him when he was here doing his book thing, so perhaps I’m not the most objective person to present the anti-Clark case. But a couple of weeks before he was here, he was on Brian Lehrer’s show on WNYC. He’s amazingly militaristic, and unapologetically so.

In general, IMO, the U.S. already uses military at the drop of a pin. We don’t need the Ds to do the same.

Of course, it’s an argument that I’ll lose, as there’s so little difference between Rs and Ds.

mebbe we should stop feeding the squirrels corn.

I know, corn is one of the worst soil depleters ever! It is not the crop for biofuels. Nothing like destroying our rich soils knowingly.

at least in Mexico corn smut is a delicacy
Huitlacoche [wee-tlah-KOH-cheh]

Huitlacoche is the fungal, culinary delicacy Ustilago maydis that grows on ears of corn. Inhabitants of Mexico and indigenous people from the Southwestern United States enjoy this rich, smoky ingredient in foods like tamales, soups, quesadillas, appetizers, and ice cream. While farmers treat huitlacoche as an infectious affliction that ruins corn crops, it has a long history in the cuisine of Aztecs, Hopi, and Zuni.

imo, clark is not “recovered”

i think this is a revealing podcast eCAHN recommended last year (brian lehrer show on wnyc).

Thanks for the link to Clark on Brian Lehrer.

i’ve been considering a protest vote – along the lines of mary’s comment i quoted above. having a lot of trouble thinking clearly on this one though. too much anger, i don’t know if i’m thinking rationally or creating rationalizations.

Mornin’, Elliott

I would imagine Nader is going to continue his bashing of Obama. Heard a particularly nasty diatribe the other day. Funny how this guy appears every four years just to throw shit in the game. Nader could have spent the last four years building a movement, but noooooo. Must have required too much effort on his part.

So far, I haven’t seen a presidential election in which the Democratic Party could take much of anyone for granted. I first voted in 1964 and, since 1968, the Democratic base has been a confederacy of disparate groups whose interests agree on some issues and collide on others. All together, they haven’t constituted a majority of voters without somehow attracting the “independent” voters. Usually, they can be split, or independents driven away over wedge issues. I just seems like the opportunity of the “better” replacing the terrible and intolerable comes along that often. Things have to get pretty bad before a large number of voters start paying attention and stop voting against their own interests.

A past Director of the oxymoronically monikered National Endowment for Democracy, for cripes sake! Democracy Now can tell you all about one of ST. Ronald’s legacys that just keeps on gining, the NED.

Heh..let’s double team Mike…

I’m in the data collection stage. Just absorbing whatever info that becomes available between now & election day.

My favorite saying about anticipatory anxiety: No need to be anxious now. There will be plenty of time for that later.

Twelve blocks from da beach. Short bike ride. Hauling the beach chair on it is a bitch, though.

Before I finish reading the post and the comments, I wanted to “thank” Jane for directing me to that Obama site asking him to vote no on retroactive immunity. What has she done to me! I thought I checked the box “no” that I didn’t want to receive e-mails, but I’m getting hundreds per day now from every other person that visited that site. Furthermore, I can’t find out how to opt out! Does anybody know how I can stop this deluge of e-mail, or has anybody else had this problem and have they found out if there is anything to be done about it?

Thanks Elliot! Wow! That’s a LOT of links and goooood job! I’ll spend a chunk of the day calling and writing and generally b(*#@#ching and moaning. Another beautiful summer’s day in 2008 Bush’s Murkkka. I wonder today what I wondered a year ago today, will next 4th of July week be any better????
It’s not really, now. Maybe in ‘09 there’ll be something to be excited about regarding my dwindling independence.
Have a great day pups and Elliot.
:)

actually that book salon is a good reference too.

i thought it was very revealing how clark says (quote from matt) “he wrote this book because he believes that America is not having the honest dialogue necessary about our place in the world” and then refuses to engage in that kind of dialogue – giving us platitudes instead.

in addition to being an unrecovered militarist, i think he’s profoundly dishonest and elitist (in the sense, for example, that senators can engage in questioning petraeus but it’s not the place of citizens to do so). i can’t stand him

oh!
MoDo is really funny today. I lol’d!

This week I watched Michelle Obama talk to the Gay and Lesbian Leadership Council and pledge Obama’s support for ending the don’t ask don’t tell policy in the military, and the DOMA, to mention two issues she addressd. I can’t see Cindy McCain making such a speech

And this morning, I listened to replays both Obama and McCain speaking to the hispanic conference. Obama’s talking about how to include everyone, including the undocumented, but doing it fairly, and help the immigrants reach for the “American dream,” noting that almost all of us came here (in the last five hundred years)looking for a better life.

McCain had screaming protesters, whined about no town halls with Obama (who he promises he won’t call an elitist (this the man with seven or is it eight homes?) He talked up his POW-ness and in general skirted answering questions while making lame jokes. This isn’t the time for vanity votes.

SD – have you considered the possibility that it’s not that nader “appears” every four years, but that every four years is the only time he gets any attention from the MSM?

that said, i agree nader is not a movement builder – but neither are any of our politicians (save perhaps gore). i don’t think nader would make a good president, but he’s been right on the major issues of the day far, far more than any national dem i know of.

i really don’t get the nader hate thing.

p.s. i’ve never voted for the guy.

Thanks for the sites. Just had computer trouble so only got to read one and then had to struggle to get back here at all.

Troubling to hear selise and eCAHN about Clark.

Apparently Afghanistan is a SUPER MESS right now. One more legacy from GW. Manpower and material support of all kinds detoured perpetually to Iraq. The drug thugs (who have all the money…. of course), Taliban super strong, war lords. I am wondering if this will make Clark all the more appealing to Dems with McCain and his saber-rattling, and since “I was a POW so I know ALL about this stuff” rhetoric.

Will now track down more Clark stuff and Lehrer podcast. Thanks.

You have to go back to the site and amend your profile to “don’t receive emails” and that unsubscribes you from the ListServ list.

This is really the silly season of politics – happens every time. Names come flying out about possible VP, everyone denies they are on the list and the next one pops up. What is so funny is that lots of the names are starting the rumors themselves. I have no idea who Obama may choose but there’s a good chance his/her name has not been mentioned yet.

You must be thinking of Hillary’s Dem Party?…not Obama’s. In the ‘Guardian Unlimited’ this morning there are plans for pre-election bombing of Iran. It’s a done deal by Israel and Bush/McCain/Chaney and AIPAC.

thank you for the links.

eCAHN @52 – lol. i like that advice, even if i suck at following it. seriously though, i never want to leave data gathering mode, all decisions are subject to change until the vote is actually cast.

hope not, sick of seeing clark on teevee babbling about terror.

elliot – i understand that other people may see things quite differently than i do. but please, don’t call my vote – however i cast it – a “vanity” vote. that implies i don’t care about my country and the world and that i’m not trying to do what i think is best.

I would suggest to you:
1. No one has any idea what Obama’s party will look like. He’s been very good about being opaque & allowing everyone else to write their dreams & aspirations on him.
2. He’ll suffer from the same pressures as DLC types: fundraising (he takes as much lobbyist money as the rest), and votes. Therefore, even if he’d like to be more progressive (and his Chicago economics advisors suggest the reverse), he’ll be forced to be less so as the campaign continues.

I wasn’t referring to you specifically, But I am sorry selise, I didn’t mean to be demeaning.

Are you a 4th baby? Same here……..gotta be the best day of the year for a b.d…….who else gets fireworks in celebration?

I don’t dislike Nader. Matter o’ fact I think he has some great ideas. My bitch is that he’s not taken the bull by the horns and helped build a third party when the opportunity(s) arose. A lot of people voted for Nader where he was on the ballot, earning him the spoiler label, but his involvement with those voters pretty much evaporated after the 04 election. He’s intertoobz savvy and what better tool to build either a party or movement. Now all I hear from him is bashing either McSFB or Obama, particularly Obama and the Dem Party.

Some of us live in swing states where we don’t have the luxury of taking our ball and stomping off home when the game doesn’t go how we want it to.

Here is a link to a local tv piece on our Obama house party we held yesterday, starring Derrick as the precinct captain, my wife as some chick in glasses being interviwed, and me as the bald guy drinking Miller.

Click on the link “Internet may play key role in presidential race” to see why we desperately need to do some work on our house.

http://cw2.trb.com/

Wow — there’s Jane and Bob Barr on the New York Times online Opinion page!

I think to strongly address the security point is to critique it with economic and environmental security.

Really need to shift away from current policy. Substainability being keynote response to security.

(((Elliott))) – thanks, appreciate that. i’m a more than a little on guard after the name calling during the primary silly season.

My bitch is that he’s not taken the bull by the horns and helped build a third party when the opportunity(s) arose.

right and iirc, he kept all the campaign funds he got and never turned them over to the Green Party, where they belonged. He just used the Greens.

Bashing is all he knows how to do because he hasn’t the foggiest notion about how to actually run a gov’t. He has never held elective office and frankly, I have nothing but contempt for his whining every 4 years.

Nader … what you see is what you get … which is a relief in America. He is hated by MSM apparently from his brusqueness and holier than thou attitude which I think he actually has earned. He is also Lebanese … which I think is not mentioned much but a huge factor in pro-Israel sympathies in US and resistance to him on an international perspective.

John Edwards set the election campaign on issues of the left, where it belonged. After Edwards left the campaign the left lost its grounding.

Nader alienated so many. But the reformer in him insists on speaking up. The left in-fighting hurts the campaign. But he turned the light on corporate owned government and God bless em. He recognized Edwards morality. Obama’s latest pandering it feels like, makes me want to listen to what Nader is saying.

If you mean Obama will be running towards the center it goes without saying. Obama’s political success now and in the future will come from progressive support…however he has to be elected.

good points. but i don’t think he’s ever been a person to really support a third party – which is why i don’t judge him on that point so much. i see nader more as someone trying to pressure (from the outside) the dems to respond in a more progressive/populist (and less dlc) way. so i see his primary attention being on changing the dems, not on creating another party. many people who support the greens do so for the same reason – to put pressure on the dems, not to replace one party with another.

John Edwards set the election campaign on issues of the left, where it belonged. After Edwards left the campaign the left lost its grounding.

Yep. Edwards is responsible for the Healthcare debate moving left. He was impetus for the ban on FoxNews. And for the spotlight on middle class struggles. Once he left, there was a shift.

Hmmm. Seems to me I’ve heard that song before; it’s like an old familiar tune; I know it well.

Does the end justifies the means in terms of letting the Constitution be gutted, though? Doesn’t the citizenry on left AND right deserve someone grounded enough to say, “We must protect our Constitution.”

lol, i misread nader as nadler

But Nader doesn’t actually DO anything. He rather casually wanders around the country complaining and bashing but he really doesn’t put any skin in the game. He knows he’s not going to win so every 4 years he gets to irritate the hell out of the entire country for fun. I would respect him more if he actually had a vigorous campaign going.

Nader’s an egomaniac. That stood him in good stead when he was fighting corporate malfeasance but is a complete impediment to “building” a party.

A fellow New Yorker? Nadler is cool.

Anyone think Obama made a huge tactical error stopping 527’s. When he first took this stand I expected him to start hammering McCain to do the same. And that would have been a very powerful message. But he hasn’t done that. Is there something I don’t understand?. He never criticizes the repub use of 527 ads, but gave up their power to help him. I don’t get it.

yep

When Hillary voted to make the Iran Revolutionary force and opened the door to Bush to take invasive action, I felt the same way about my vote if she had won. I respect your opinion but I’m not sure that I personally could have gone through with my threat. I don’t think that our country can survive 4 more years of McSame. By the way, Lieberman is whining on Face The Nation and I’m not sure my sanity could take 4 more years of that.

i see nader more as someone trying to pressure (from the outside) the dems to respond in a more progressive/populist (and less dlc) way.

I agree but what better way to influence the Dems than build a cohesive movement to achieve that purpose. That’s what we’re attempting to do here at the Lake and other progressive blogs. That said, we’re not what I would call a cohesive movement. We here at the Lake have some differences with the folks over at the Orange Satan and other blogs. We all have a common overall goal but differ on the specifics. IMO we need more of a consensus among all the progressive groups on those basic specifics. When that occurs we may well have the influence we need to change the direction of the party.

Yeah, the Nader ego I am sure. His old “raiders” have trouble not getting nuts talking about their frustration with him.

But how hard to have worked so vigilantly fighting for the rights of the consumer for decades, and then watching so many hard won protections get dismantled by the amorality and greed and incompetence and anti-common good badness of the Bushies and the corporately bribed parties … especially the Dems who talk the talk…. but no longer walk the walk… well, not so much.

For Elizabeth Edwards fans
here’s a link to a delightful interview she did earlier this week

Elizabeth Edwards on Campaign 2008 and Technology

Elizabeth Edwards, Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress, talked about the various uses of the Internet in the 2008 election campaigns, such as: journalism on the Web, fund raising, the Internet as an information resource for voters, and the digital divide. The event was part of the Personal Democracy Forum 2008, which focused on how technology and the Internet are changing campaigns, elections and political media.

it’s an hour long

Oh! I can’t find the link yet, but a certain wee friend of mine woke me up in the wee hours and there was Jane on CSPAN! from this conference.

“Things are really going well in Iraq” Joe Leiberman, Sunday, June 29 “Face the Nation”

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) — Three U.S. Marines and two interpreters were among 20 people killed Thursday when a suicide bomber attacked a meeting of tribal sheikhs in Iraq’s Anbar province, officials said.
[snip]

A U.S. soldier was killed in Baghdad on Wednesday by a bomb attack, the U.S. military reported. The death brings the number of American troop deaths in Iraq since Monday to eight.

In June, there have been 26 U.S. troop deaths in Iraq, still a low total in comparison with previous months of the war. May’s death toll of 19 was the lowest monthly total of the war.
[snip]

Since the war began, 4,110 U.S. service members have died in Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/…..iraq.main/

Doesn’t Obama want to protect our Constitution?…not sure I understand your question. I think running toward the ‘center’ is more about protecting our culture than progressive political experiments like the ‘new deal’. Politics involves people’s fears.

3rd – but when I was just a little, Cornell Uni used to do their fireworks display on the 3rd and my parents always used to take us, trying to convince me that they’d done all this for ME.

Well, at least Tom Brokaw is an improvement on MTP.

If McC wins we get to hear 4 years of HoJo nattering on TV – I can’t stand the thought.

Unfortunately they were not side by side on Face The Nation because Clark could have made Lieberman cry..

I wish someone would make him cry. He is so serene in his awfulness that it drives me crazy.

Politics involves people’s fears.

Then let’s make Americans aware of the potential of massive job loss and other domestic issues. Instead of making them afraid of the boogeyman we should be warning them that if they don’t change their laissez-faire ways they’re gonna be standing in line waiting for a space under a bridge.

Good points about Nader watching his good work being eroded thru politics.

speaking of nadler cspan1 rerunning addington-yoo

I agree. Brokaw is a refreshing change. One of the few electronic journalists with their ego under control.

It’s time to call him unhojo.. I can’t stand the hojo.

Smart parents. *g* If we miss in passing, have a good one!

again, i’m not disagreeing with you. but imo that’s expecting him to be someone he’s not. as eCAHN described him above, he’s a bit of an egomaniac (although i cut him slack on this considering how right he has been on almost all the important issues – way ahead of his time).

for who he is, he’s doing what he can. that’s far more than most are doing (including virtually all of congress).

again, i’m not trying to make him out to be some kind of a saint (haha), but i don’t get the nader hate either. and more importantly, i think that has be very successful in shutting down discussion and even thought regarding what he does say. i think we’d be a better country if more dems would have been listening to what he has been saying instead of complaining about his ego or his lack of movement building. true, that’s not what he does. but he does offer a very sound policy critique of the dems and i don’t think his other failings are any reason not to pay attention to what he has been doing, and doing very well.

Thanks, msmolly, I just did that! Sure hope it works. There were three different categories of e-mails; I had checked one of them no to begin with, but was unaware that there were two more. I did have a hard time finding how to get into my profile, though.

HoJo is just easy to type, that’s all.

Thnx for the heads up, I was waiting for the re-airing of this. Isn’t Addington an arrogant ass?

I think it might be a good time for everyone to re-read, or read for the first time, “Crashing the Gate”. I don’t agree with some of the stuff coming out of the Obama campaign, particularly FISA, but the alternative is too horrible to contemplate, especially when I live in a state that could potentially decide the outcome in November. I had this discussion with a friend last week over the FISA kerfuffle. He announced he wasn’t going to vote for Obama because of it. This was my response;

“Guess what? This pisses me off as much as anyone, but reading this and a sample of the comments on Carpetbagger pisses me off a whole lot more. “He just lost my vote.” “I won’t send him another penny.”

Do you want another four years of Bush? Really? Is that what you want? Because that’s what you are going to get if you don’t suck it up and deal. If you wait for the perfect candidate, you will die in a Fascist America. There is no perfect candidate, and to believe otherwise is insufferably naïve, which is something we can’t afford the luxury of right now. As Al Gore said in his speech earlier this week, the fate of the planet depends on the outcome of this election.

Obama represents the last, best hope that we can start to fundamentally change the basis of our economy before the global environment is irreparably damaged. If McCain wins, we get to borrow money from China to pay for an unending war for a resource that will destroy the global ecosystem. We will bear responsibility for the destruction of entire nations, and the death of millions. Which is more important? A constitutional principle, or the future of humanity? We don’t have the time to be pitching hissy fits over our favourite causes. If we fail to act, the blood of millions will be on our hands. My biggest fear is that I will be an old man and young people will ask me why I didn’t do more.

If you’re ok with that, fine. I have a big problem with it. For me, it’s a moral and spiritual issue.”

It will take a lot to change my mind.

Yes. I thought Clark did a pretty good job. His point was the opposite of that made here; i.e. that he relies too heavily on the military tool. He argued that that was the problem of the Bush administration. Every time I’ve seen him, he has argued the stupidity of any military action against Iran.

I do think sir, that that would be an understatement.

Nader hate is easy to understand, I think. People blame him for Gore’s loss.

Standing on a ladder applauding ! Well said.

I want him to protest about FISA. Why not TRUST and honor the checks and balances system set up. About no habaeus corpus. About the use of torture. These are not progressive preferences. These are part of our national foundation. They are being treated like leftie preferences. And if our leadership minimizes them, too, then we are lost to the gamesmanship not statesmanship of the right, which by the way, used its “dig your heels in” passion to their principals, by the way, to win originally.

Good Morning Elliot and Firedogs,

and speaking of Al Gore . . .where is he on this FISA tragedy ?!?!?

recalling his 2006 MLK Day speech, he should be calling them out and aligning himself with Finegold.

lots of talk around the blogisphere urging us all to de-beatify BO, I don’t think we should stop there

Nader certainly didn’t help Gore’s campaign. The responsibility for the loss can be shared though, MSM, Gore and Nader. I still hear about how Gore said that he invented the internet.

I wonder how many people have signed up for that new group at Obama.com urging him to vote no on FISA etc. Can’t remember the name of the group now. Sounded like a real groundswell.

Doesn’t Obama want to protect our Constitution?

that is just the problem and what has pushed me into considering a protest vote.

when he had the chance to actually do so last week, he instead 1) went back on an explicit campaign promise, 2) used rightwing fear mongering to justify his position and 3) supports the anti-constitutional h.r.6304 fisa modification bill that just passed in the house.

it’s one thing to run to the right, although i hate that. it’s another thing to actively undermine our constitutional protections and rights.

I never expected Nader to build a movement on his own. Again, my bitch is he didn’t do anything after 04 to help, operative word – help, build a movement. If nothing else, using the Greens just as an example, the Greens are perfectly capable of building a movement based on Nader’s ideas and critiques. He had an opportunity to use his achievements and ideas to reach a wide audience and he chose not to, for whatever reason. He stiffed the Greens and went his own way.

We need to push Obama hard on this and other things as well. With McC we have no chance at all. He doesn’t listen to anyone – probably not his own advisors.

All ego, not much else there.
Some of the things he’s done, or has inspired others to do, have hurt far more people than they’ve helped. He still doesn’t get it.

If he really cared about things, he’d be around more often than every fourth year. He shows up, announces he’s running for president, bashes the Democratic candidates – and only the Ds – then falls off the radar after he’s insulted most of the voters and his campaign (such as it is) has gone broke.

there are now 92 pages listing membership – the group is on track to become the largest group in Obamaworld nlt Tues am

SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA

Sy Hersh is also on Blitzer today to discuss his new article:

Preparing the Battlefield
The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran.

http://www.newyorker.com/repor…..fact_hersh

If we’re going to de-beatify BO, I would respectfully suggest that we wait until after he’s been elected, along with a Democratic majority in the house & Senate. “Lefties trash-talk Obama” is too tempting a headline to be handing to the wingnuts.

Thanks for the head’s up. Will look into it. If Obama is a leader “in process” then I want to give him some input. Obama got a boost up from Oprah and a younger generation so hungry and deserving of a hero. Let’s help him be that and hope he’s got the “right stuff.” Remember that movie The Seduction of Joe Tynan.

it’s a moral and spiritual issue.

it most certainly is for me also and i think for all of us. i hope you weren’t implying otherwise.

but that doesn’t mean our analysis or our conclusions will all be the same.

excellent, excellent point.

being a fan of gore, i may need to be reminded from time to time.

thank you.

The only thing I give to campaigns is my time and expertise. I can’t afford to give them money, plain and simple. I’m the treasurer for a congressional campaign in Florida and do other stuff as well, all as a volunteer. I have only once, and it was snark, said I wouldn’t vote for Obama. So I guess I’m missing your point.

McConnell refuses twice to comment on Hersh’s article. Evidently Sy has hit him where it hurts by writing the truth.

Ian is upstairs

the media lemmings are already doing that and will continue to do it even if only one of us disagrees with him period (only so many templates in their Fisher-Price stylebook doncha know)

and – BO straight up used our ‘disappointment’ as proof he’s a ‘moderate, not with the lefties kinda guy’ . . .

Thankee…….was just heading out for some gardening activity….now I’m waiting for Sy. *g*

hey solai-you still here?

wanted to add a newport, RI tip……just north of where the houses stop along the beach road going north, across the street from the ’nice’ restaurant at the first public beach swimming area i told you about, is a little place, with a deck walkway along the left side…..best food anywhere……the bed and breakfast people, who are locals, that’s the place they said to eat…..they were right, we ate there quite a few times……open all day. got take-out a few times to eat on the beach and other places…

the ’nice’ place we ate there a few times, too, but dress code a little different than the place across the street.

two separate dining experiences, both good. lol.

and weird thing, bed and breakfast place–the wife managed the hotel where my dad used to stay when he travelled on business to a town in new york in the 80’s, remembered him, and mom and i had just stopped there on our way to newport to buy cheesecake and goodies from the bakery there, my favorite bakery-we shared our stash with them……and the husband had mutual friends/history from the olympic/elite athlete world with my former husband-former husband not with us on the trip, but was i hangin’ out on the porch talkin’ with him and he said a name and i about sh!t………..what a small world……

i guess i should give an email so this could be off-line……but it’s interesting though……

I didn’t intend to cast aspersions on anyones spirituality or morality. I apologise if that’s how it came across.

I was asking my friend (who is a very spiritual person, much more so than me) to consider the consequences of his actions, or lack thereof.

Here’s an excerpt from the Hersh piece. Evidently our Democratic leaders in Congress are once again backing Bush behind the scenes.

Under federal law, a Presidential Finding, which is highly classified, must be issued when a covert intelligence operation gets under way and, at a minimum, must be made known to Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and the Senate and to the ranking members of their respective intelligence committees—the so-called Gang of Eight. Money for the operation can then be reprogrammed from previous appropriations, as needed, by the relevant congressional committees, which also can be briefed.

“The Finding was focussed on undermining Iran’s nuclear ambitions and trying to undermine the government through regime change,” a person familiar with its contents said, and involved “working with opposition groups and passing money.” The Finding provided for a whole new range of activities in southern Iran and in the areas, in the east, where Baluchi political opposition is strong, he said.

Although some legislators were troubled by aspects of the Finding, and “there was a significant amount of high-level discussion” about it, according to the source familiar with it, the funding for the escalation was approved. In other words, some members of the Democratic leadership—Congress has been under Democratic control since the 2006 elections—were willing, in secret, to go along with the Administration in expanding covert activities directed at Iran, while the Party’s presumptive candidate for President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy.

http://www.newyorker.com/repor…..fact_hersh

oo thanks cbl

There’s another piece in the New Yorker that caught my eye.

The Bribe
How the Mississippi lawyer who brought down Big Tobacco overstepped.
by Peter J. Boyer

http://www.newyorker.com/repor…..fact_boyer

thanks.

Just be careful when you sign up to check whatever choice is “don’t receive email” or you are subscribed to their ListServ list and you get an email every time someone joins and comments.

and nader talk–

sorry, but if it wasn’t for nader, my young brain would never have been tweaked to be curious about issues and look into how things operate in our country……so, i pretty much don’t care what his weaknesses are. i care what he slammed onto the table and kept adding to the pile, for years and years and years, a pit bull….

and, he’s gettin’ up there, been at it for years, how much more should he have to do?

he started the hammering for issues that we are talking about and fighting for and people seem to forget that.
if there would have been no nader, what would we be talking about right now? what would the pertinent issues be? i don’t think they would be the same ones we want pushed right now if not for him.

so, i don’t care what he’s become, i care about WHAT HE STARTED. cuz it was he who started this whole movement.

he’s not an organizer, he’s a ’start-up’ guy…..to expect him to be anything else was just people not being honest about his limits…..his talent is compiling information……and i guess everyone has forgotten the firing line things he did for all of us, who he took on when it wasn’t done, but i haven’t and never will…..our world is a much better place and a safer one because of him and for that, i’ll think of him as a mentor who taught me to look at what is really going on in the world and on my tv set and in my government. always.

i keep waiting for phil donahue to release all of the nader shows…..i’d give anything to hear those shows again……he was right 30 years ago. bet we could use his same arguments verbatim right now.

“We here at the Lake have some differences with the folks over at the Orange Satan and other blogs. We all have a common overall goal but differ on the specifics. IMO we need more of a consensus among all the progressive groups on those basic specifics. When that occurs we may well have the influence we need to change the direction of the party.”

I’m agreeing with you. It seems to me that some people get so fixated on their single issues that they lose sight of the wider goal, which is to elect the best candidate to advance the progressive agenda. Obama is what we’ve got to work with. Lots of people here would have preferred Edwards, or Clinton, or Kucinich, or any of the others, and I would have been cool with any of them. My point is that if you vote (or don’t vote) because you disagree with one position a candidate takes on one issue, while disregarding all the issues you do agree on, you won’t get anywhere. Which was my take-away from “Crashing The Gate”.

In my book it’s called being practical. We need to help our country now the best way we can. I will vote for Obama and keep pounding away to get things done progressively.

My point is that if you vote (or don’t vote) because you disagree with one position a candidate takes on one issue, while disregarding all the issues you do agree on, you won’t get anywhere.

I couldn’t agree more.

While I have found the field of candidates uninspiring (again), Those who refuse to vote for Obama are voting for Chimpy Clusterfuck’s third term. The things I find frustrating about “our side,” are numerous, and as much as I disliked Hillary, had she been the nominee, I think I would have found a way to get my stomach enough Pepto to get to the polls and vote for her.

What I don’t see among us, is a recognition most of our current national issues ALL hinge on the Iraq war. The lives and the money. Think of the improvements to infrastructure and the economy as a whole, had our nation not been spent into bankruptcy.

The other thing I see that dismays me is the quaint notion of “raising the level of discourse” during the campaign. I think it’s already been shown, the ‘pukes are NOT going to raise the level of discourse, they’re going to appeal to fear, racism and anything else they think will stick and bring us down.

We MUST do the same thing.I’ve said many times, here and elsewhere, We can raise the level of discourse the day after election day. OK, two days, I want to have one day to gloat. If the ‘pukes do the “Swiftboat” think, we must do it. We must be willing to get dirty. Yes, yes, I know, that’s very distasteful to many on this side, but the point is to win. Losing and being right is nothing but losing. The stakes are far too high to “play nice.”

I hope y’all will consider that and cowboy up for a fight, because this is a fight for the life of the nation. If we lose, 1929-41 will look like springtime in Paris. The ‘pukes want McCain to undo every bit of what remains of the New Deal, Social Security, worker safety laws, and so forth. We simply MUST win, by any means necessary.

I hope y’all understand that.

Thanks, msmolly.. was poised to join up and couldn’t go there. need more for bo before that. thanks for the warning!!!

In EPU land but ABC has Rahm Emanuel, an Obama supporter? Who made that up?

On balance, given ‘where’ we are, an Obama presidency would probably be ‘better’ than a MCCain presidency …

Whether it would be only a teeny weeny little bit ‘better’ or a great deal ‘better’ is open to speculation.

I expect we shall have quite a hard time with Obama, but my intuition, a faulty devise in the male of the species, admitedly, suggests that things would be far worse with McCain, if for no reason other than his appointing more hateful souls to the Supreme Court, which would have the effect of making future ‘progress’ even more difficult if not unlikely ..

As to issues of ‘purity’, after decades of pure, unadulterated bull, it is akin to expecting things to be ‘perfect’ when we all know full-well that the only ‘perfect’ things, in the public sphere, are asses …

;~D

Crowley to Hersh…Seymour Hersh – another blockbuster story (that the rest of us in the media will promptly forget and never again report to the American people). So what if Bush has authorized special forces to kill people all around the world.

Mornin’, DW

That’s pretty much my read on it. What he’ll do with the privatization of the military and SC appointees are my biggest worries.

if you are still around….. i’m not watching (no cnn here), so appreciate any and all of your comments on sy hersh’s appearance. thanks!

Good day, SD;

And, indeedy so, on both ‘concerns’.

Suspect we’ll have to keep after Obama pretty much full time, but hey! we already figured that …

Feurae sends you a wink and a luxurious stretch.

Selise, the interview is over. They talked about how the Democrats approved of Bush’s operation without fully knowing what he was doing…talked about Murtha and others voting for this stuff but being very uneasy because they didn’t know all the details and this thing is very secret. They should have a transcript on CNN up later today. I know I’ll be reading it even though I watched it. I’m also going to finish reading the Hersh piece in the New Yorker…I got sidetracked reading about Dick Scruggs getting sentenced to 5 years in prison. I always liked Scruggs so I read that New Yorker story first.

Hersh also made a point to talk about the Democratic leadership..gang of 8…I’m getting back to the Hersh article now and I’m sure he covers it in this piece. I’m sure glad that we have people like Hersh out there digging, digging and digging.

You’re not kidding, they are determined to leave the next Administration a war with Iran, What a catastrophic blunder, this is just completely insane! There will be no backing out once they commit to it, either. They will absolutely need to initiate a draft, welcome to Middle East Warfare V3.0, featuring improved dynamic gameplay, more and deadlier weapons, new higher level threats, extra combatants.

the Democrats approved of Bush’s operation without fully knowing what he was doing

not again?! what fucking idiots.

many thanks for the update. will do as you advise and check for the transcript later today.

It’s really such a guessing game right now. I don’t even want to think about the number of policy shifts, etc that come out between now and November. I figure I’ll just praise him when he takes a stance I agree with on something and piss and moan when he does the opposite. The proof will be in the pudding.

Mornin’, Feurae. *chin and ear rub*

Talked to Samm last night and she’s trying to decide whether to sell the house, etc, and move into something smaller. Sounds like the decision to give up Kitty and Bunny (a bunny – she’s so name creative, *g*) is mostly for economic reasons. She was overjoyed that I said I’d take Kitty. I think she’s going to give up her animals regardless, just to cut down on expenses. Lot of that going around lately I’ve read. The shelters here have started programs to board pets for nominal fees for folks who are strapped.

Another excerpt from the Hersh piece:

The Democratic leadership’s agreement to commit hundreds of millions of dollars for more secret operations in Iran was remarkable, given the general concerns of officials like Gates, Fallon, and many others. “The oversight process has not kept pace—it’s been coöpted” by the Administration, the person familiar with the contents of the Finding said. “The process is broken, and this is dangerous stuff we’re authorizing.”

Yes, SD, pets are beginning to feel the ‘pinch’ and many more are being abandoned.

Thelonious came to us several years ago, dropped off and abandoned, he spent two weeks not trusting us for anything more than the food we put out for him.

I worry for the creatures who depend upon people and, increasinly, for the children whose lives will be far more circumscribed than were ours, I am concerned that the coming derpression will rob all of the world’s children of meaningful childhoods and offer most but meager futures …

After I got back to the world I thought that these eyes had seen way too much for their age. And to think that now children will have seen things an old man would cry over.

Hi Elliott. I just called Senators Boxer and Feinstein’s offices. Feinstein does not have voice mail working. Boxer’s voicemail box is full.

Wow, Arianna and Katrina on the same show…has there been a shift in the space/time continuum?

I hope that after the old men cry, that we may care to try to allow our experience to guide us that we may contribute to ending the bloody vanity of excess and inhumanity masquerading as ‘patriotism’ that last refuge of hate, after we get beyond ‘belief’ … of “curse”.

Our myths are killing us, but we pull the trigger, push the button or simply care, all too often, only about ourselves.

Has the world gone mad or has it only gone sad?

Time for healing, SD, and you are one of the healers.

and [the loathsome] Hugh Hewitt.

If that’s the blond haired yahoo with glasses, elliot certainly got that right! What a tool!