With the advent of the "all-volunteer" force in the years after Vietnam, one of the things that recruiters sold the young men and women was the "dream" that they would be able to achieve a better life for themselves either as career military, or they could take their post-service benefits and head off to get either college or vocational training, buy a home and take advantage of other benefits designed for the men and women who came home from WW II.
Well, recruiters told them that until Congress got into the act in 1984, and went looking for ways to further screw the men and women who served their country, often at the risk of their lives for minimum wage or below. The in-service "OJT" offered was sometimes able to be transferred to a civilian job (Nuclear plant operators, airline pilots and vehicle mechanics come to mind), but there were very few opportunites for "MOS" (Military Occupational Specialities) like "small atomic demolitions munitions specialist" (no, I am not making that up, I saw the recruiting movie for it back in the 80s) to transfer that and other skills like combat infantry to civilian life directly.
Without the marginally effective, non-cost indexed Montgomery GI Bill, a separating GI had really no other financial resources to look to for training and education other than student loans and grants/scholarships. So it began for a returning vet...there they were competing with a younger group of kids who were either in debt up to their eyeballs or trust fund babies at the DEKE house (now who does that sound like?). And they had to make choices about schools that they could afford versus schools that they wanted to attend to achieve their educational goals.
So what does this bring us back to? Well, the iterations that the GI Bill has gone through over the last thirty years brought it to a point that made it almost unrecognizable by a veteran of WWII. A service member basically had to opt in to the benefits, and contribute to it or lose the opportunity to participate. The bill was gutted in 1984 with the complicity of Congress to make it as "cost effective" as possible for the government, and as costly as possible for the veterans with a $1200 dollar enrollment fee that had to be paid pretty quickly, or else no participation. Now with the advent of the Iraq War, where we have that two-plus decades-old all-volunteer force stretched to the breaking point and the republicans are once again playing shit on the vets game. Amazing. The original GI Bill was sort of the brainchild of the American Legion as amazing as that is, given the American Legion of today.
Peter Gaytan is director of veteran's affairs for the American Legion. He says the bill's humble origins on a sheet of hotel stationery belie its radical premise:
"We didn't wanna just create legislation that would write a monthly check to a veteran who returned from combat. We recognized that they needed a transition into a life, not a payment for service. What the GI Bill originally did was allow them to go to school, to purchase their home, to become part of the work force when they took the uniform off."
The attitude of the Legion, was what it took to take the fight for the returning warriors to get something that would allow them to leave the horrors of war, or the boredom of Fort Dix behind them and begin their lives anew, rebuilding a civilian society that had been transformed into a huge war production machine. So it went for almost forty years, until Ronald Reagan decided he loved veterans so much that he never met a cut in veterans spending he didn't like. I guess it was sort of like a "Veterans welfare cadillac" for republicans or something.
Now we have veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan coming back from Preznit Barely Educated's dirty little war and gee, he loves him some veterans, as do those freedom-and-veteran-loving republicans hacks who collect huge taxpayer salaries to sit in Congress and do...well...not much. The Webb bill provides a means for the returning veterans to elect to attend a state school at a "full-ride" if thery have the required qualifying service (36 months), and it also includes the Guard and Reserves, something that many of the military spending bills Congress passes ignore on a regular basis.
In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, World War I vets marched on the Capitol demanding compensation owed to them. Government troops were called in to disperse them by force.
Would that happen again? Probably not, but maybe it should. Consider the story of this young man back from Iraq:
For Todd Bowers it wasn't just a tough decision to just stop going to school: "It was embarrassing."
The 28-year old Marine reservist was almost killed by a sniper while serving in Iraq. The bullet is still lodged in his rifle scope.
Back home, Bowers re-enrolled for classes at George Washington University but had to drop out. Despite his savings and part-time jobs, his benefits simply didn't go far enough.
"I was as surprised as I think all of America is," Bowers said. "I hear from a lot of my friends who have not served and even family and they say, 'Well, you served in the military, your college is paid for.'"
John McCain, a man who has lived on the public dollar his entire life, has no interest in helping veterans to have a leg up in post-Iraq America. McCain has either had the eagle crapping a check in his bank account or living on the Sugar Momma Express for his entire life. But helping someone along especially vets by supporting Webb's bill...not so much.
The best (absolutely most stupid) reason for not helping the returning veterans? Gee, it's because going to deplete the Armed Forces.
"We in the department want to be careful that any changes to benefits don't undercut retention," said Undersecretary of Defense for manpower issues David Chu. "In other words, if you are very generous about post-service education, you're creating a draw away from continued military service, which we would need to counter-act."
Or maybe you develop a force manning and deployment policy that does not require mulitple rotations, provides care for the injured and education for all of them. In other words you keep the social compact you built with the men and women who have faithfully discharged their enlistment oaths, something republicans who love Desertin' George and Five-Deferment Dick do not seem to do too well.
Or you just don't start unnecessary wars.
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Zed is dead - long live Zed!!
1,685 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Jo Fish:
As a second generation recipient of the GI Bill ed benefits that allowed me to complete undergrad school and get into post graduate studies, I would like to offer that this program is a good land mark to start diggin’ for where old fashioned Democratic politics and social ideology are buried.
Thanx for the post, I jest wish this place wasn’t gettin’ so deaf to veteran’s issues and the politics of return for war veterans. I hope this post isn’t a cry in the wilderness.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND REMEMBER NOT TA SHOOT YERSELF IMN THE FOOT BEFORE YA DRAW A BEAD ON ‘EM!!
Jo Fish,
Thanks for this write-up. I was in the USAF 12/76 - 9/82 and was able to use the ‘Nam era GI Bill to finish my degree while I was on active duty.
I got caught in one of St Ronnie’s other little gotchas to the veteran.
When I first got out, I had been “accepted” for re-enlistment but had chosen not to do so. Therefore I was “voluntarily leaving my job” and was ineligible for any unemployment benefits. However, the person who got kicked out or was denied re-enlistment could collect a full 26 weeks of unemployment
Nothing like penalizing those who serve.
Note: They eventually changed it to allow 13 weeks unemployment. I guess a half a loaf is about the best a veteran can expect most times.
It’s terrible how it works out like that. You guys put everything on the line and receiving almost nothing in return out of a sheer technicality.
Well I’m grateful for what you’ve done…I just wished congress was too.
Yo Fish, Norske! They have long had a penchant for changing the rules in the middle of the game, think about the Nukes and the Advanced Electronics people in the Navy, they enlisted for six and were supposed to get $%12K after the first 4 years. That was the deal.
The Military changed their minds some time in around 1979 or so and they could either re-enlist for 6 years and get $16K or they would get $4800 for their final 2 years. A Class Action finally lost after about six or seven years. They also put a time limit on how long you had to use your GI Bill benefits before they “expired”, which was also totally chickenshit. It has always been about fucking the veterans. Always. Just speaking form the perspective a dependent, an eleven year Navy man and now a disabled vet with a Looong history of working with the so called system.
The Webb GI Bill is brilliant in its benefit to society and in its calling out on the hypocrisy of GOP war thundering.
good post.
Where’s Raven?
I don’t know, I was wondering if I needed to call him up on facebook and ask him wtf?
I thought that was the dumbest thing I ever heard! It didn’t apply to me since I got a medical, but if a person was reenlistment eligible (a good guy) you could get it. If a guy was a shmoe, but got a general, he could get it! Just as long as it wasn’t a BCD or a Dishonorable.
Grab yer shovels pups!
Thank you for this, Jo. We owe our veterans so much and we give them so little.
I’ve dug Jo since 2004, at least.
Oh. You meant Digg. ;)
Also keep in mind that not only does McCain think this bill will discourage troops from staying in, but he couldn’t even be bothered to vote on it yesterday! Only two Senators missed the vote yesterday, but Teddy Kennedy has a lot better excuse than McSame. It passed 92-6, btw.
McCain was a chili fest campaigning…he doesn’t give 2 cents about the troops…it’s almost as if he is jealous of them if they serve and are then able to go on with good benefits..I always think that he resents those who’ve never been POWs or suffered the way he did; perhaps because he missed out on years of freedom. Very disturbing, but on some strange level, understandable…but not psychologically very stable. JMHO
Thanx Walt, I was out of the loop for the last 24 hours (although I was passing thru the ineptly-named Reagan National Airport) and did not know the Senate finally got around to passing it.
The G.I. Bill may have been the single most important policy in contributing to the exconomic expansion, rise of the middle class, and improvement in the national standard of living which took place after WWII. As a Vietnam Era vet, the educational benefits were reasonable at the time I was entitled to them. Had I not been married with 3 kids, they would have sufficed to get through college. Luckily, I had already graduated and could take graduate courses while working. Republican mentality just does not seem to be able to grasp the Keynesian idea that money can be used to encourage the growth of an economy and a society in desirable ways. I guess it’s because it involves an element of thought and calculation, rather than just a magic invisible hand or natural law.
My grandfather was one of those Bonus Marchers. He, my grandmother and my father were present when Eisenhower and MacArthur led their horse-mounted troops in the rout of the Marchers and destroy their encampment. My grandfather hated them both until the day he died.
Norske, folks will pay attention to veteran’s issues when we leave them no choice. Under Ronnie Rayguns I lost my GI Bill benefits with the swipe of a pen. I had about 6 months until I passed the 10-years-since-discharge limit. Now active duty military are cannon fodder and veterans are bums. Fuck the Republicans and their “Support the Troops” rhetoric.
OT, but…
Min, precious little tiger princess, 15 Jun 1989 to 27 Jun 2008
Unconditional love goes both ways.
Actually he supports it now. His douchebaggery knows no bounds.
Oh dear. (((((((Southern Dragon))))))) I’m so sorry.
Sorry to hear that SD.
Got a link for that deafness, Norske? Because I’m not getting that from where I sit.
I’m sorry for your loss, SD.
Lifting up the memory of Min.
You were blessed to have shared life with each other.
I’m not here nearly as much as I used to, but I think this site covers a wide variety of concerns on a regular basis.
So, I’m agreeing with you.
Yes, I’m very sorry to hear it. She looks very much like our beloved Bigwig, lost the year your Min was born.
It passed 92-6, btw.
Hope #1 Son doesn’t find himself screwed by signing up too soon. He says that his contract will get him full undergrad and at least most of a Master’s degree, but I had no chance to examine that contract myself…
Sorry for your loss, SD. I had a kitty back in the early 60s that looked just like Min. Her name was Amici and she lived to be about 11 years old. We treasured her.
Sorry to hear it SD. I lost my dalmation 2 months ago. We had 15 years. I’m still devastated. My thoughts are with you.
oh (((SouthernDragon)))
we’ve been thinking about you all day.
So very sorry you lost your beloved Min.
And thanks for the photo, she looks so much like my Sweet Pea, I don’t know what I’d do if I lost her. You are so right, it goes both way. You were lucky to have been adopted by her.
Thanks everyone. There are lessons to be learned from our relationships with our animals. Lessons that we can apply to our relationships with humans.
SD–blessings. She looked just like my tortie, Dorothy, from long ago.
I think we totally support vets here at the Lake. Remember, we worked our asses off to get Webb elected precisely because Webb promised to push for this GI Bill and/or similar support and recognition for our active duty troops. Right? Webb campaigned with this son’s Marine uniform boots, remember? What was his slogan? Time to Fight! Wasn’t it? The Dems in the ‘06 cycle stole that issue from the Rethugs. Which is why a huge majority of active duty troops, in Iraq or out of Iraq, are supporting Obama and not McCain. This may be the first election in 40 years in which the active duty military goes Democratic.
duh
thishis son’s Marine uniform bootsI’m am sorry, nothing adequately shares the feelings I have for you. Anyone who has ever shared their life with a furry friend knows the loss, I admit to having a bit, OK maybe it’s a little more than a bit, of a tear in my eye as I type this. I certainly care more for my kids than I do for most people. I definitely know they are truer to me. What they ask from me, I can give them. I truly feel your loss. Know that we love you, Brother.
hmmm… HuffPo headline - Jindal favorite for McBrain’s V.P. pick…
Please god, make it so…
I feel guilty that my country sucks so much in the way it hustles and manipulates young kids to join the military. I hope I don’t sound patronizing. I know a lot of young people have the purest patriotic reasons for putting on a uniform and we would be totally up shit’s creek if we could not count on them. But jeebus, why does our govt. abuse them after they show such loyalty and devotion? (Walter Reed, homeless vets, VA hospital clusterfucks, VA disability denials and gridlock…)
Donita’s upstairs for those who came, saw, and conquered.
OT?
I’m liking Wes Clark as Obama’s VP. With a General on the ticket, McCain’s got no legs left. Besides, Wes’s progressive credentials are pretty good, even if he did support Hillary.
Bob in HI
The problem with Jindal is that because some of his idiosyncrasies are so odd MSM won’t talk about them. It’s like the Straight Talk Express.
I was also going to ask where is Raven and where has he been for a while now? I was missing for about a week a while back because I could not get on the site. As it turns out, I was blocked out due to a spam blocker that mistook me as a spammer. I contacted Christy and ultimately she fixed it for me. But it’s very odd that Raven’s been out and nobody knows why. Usually hasn’t he told people that he’s going on vacation or something? Does anyone remember the last time he posted? Very odd that this subject is up but no Raven comments. I hate to think he thinks he’s been banned or something and he’s just too proud to question his own exile or something like that. And while I’m thinking about it, has there been any word about QuakerGirl?
The financial draft still applies. The large enlistment bonuses have to be attractive to people, especially young married couples, who are increasingly the targets of the recruiters-who are themselves an exploited segment of the Military.
We do Counter recruitment as part of war resistance activities associated with the VFP. We’ve gone as far as leafleting the main gate at Ft Hood while the soldiers are waiting to get into the base in the morning-with excellent results, people are interested in what we have to say and are accepting our packets.
why the Webb Bill ???
cuz they’re MY SOLDIERS
they protect my happy ass
they probably protect your happy ass too
they deserve the best
Far from a cry in the wilderness this is a FREAKIN’ BATTLE CRY. A CRY TO ALL THE FAMILIES WHO HAVE FOLKS WHO SERVED GOTDAMN IT!
A BATTLE CRY TO JOIN WITH PROGRESSIVES TO GRAB THIS CORRUPT, MONEY (FOR THEM) GRUBBING GANG OF RABID WEASELS WE CALL CONGRESS BY THE THROAT!
BY THE THROAT AND SQUEEZE UNTIL THEY COUGH UP THE $$$$ THEY FUKING PROMISED THOSE WHO’VE SERVED!
See…I kin yell a little myself but I’m serious as death, the death of the political careers who did this, that this issue THIS FUKIN’ ISSUE is one where progressives can really get out and FUCK THE RETHUGS AND THEIR WAR MACHINE. What a coup if Obama could mobilize the Congress to follow through on their promises and EVEN DO MORE.
Wouldnt’ that be the right thing to do? Both morally and politically?
How large are the enlistment bonuses? My niece keeps saying that her stepson, the one with only 1 kidney (he donated the other kidney to his cousin about 3 years or so ago; the cousin just died yesterday at 21 years old. It’s all very sad!), who was married within the last year and is a mechanic trained for high end cars (I think Mercedes) would get only $10K to re-enlist. I think that either she’s misinformed or he’s really nuts to even consider reenlistment for that pittance. If you think about it, he could earn that within three months and live under the same roof as his family. It would be outrageously stupid to risk your life on foreign soil for that amount of money, especially without the full Veterans benefits from the Webb GI Bill.
This morning somebody mentioned that he could just be taking a blogging break but we all hope that he’s back soon.
Big!! From the GoArmy Website. Qualified Active Duty recruits may be eligible for a combination of bonuses up to $40,000.
Aloha, Jo! Most excellent post!
I remember very well the huge sales pitch for the GI Bill pitch everyone got one early morning in basic training. We were sold this grand plan and given almost no time to decide. You had to decide right then and could not opt in at a latter date. The reduction in pay for your first year to fund this was a real crusher. $100 bucks a month.
1986 E-1 w/4 month service = $699.00/month
GI Bill deduction - $100.00/month for a year
Taxes $ SS - $118.00
Paycheck for the month = $481.00 in 1986 dollars
For this I was given the opportunity to qualify for up to $300 a month for a maximum of three years. They just loved to tell you how you were getting $10,800 for only putting up $1200.
What they didn’t tell us was that you had to be a FULL TIME student to qualify for the full $300 a month. Not a full time student? Sorry, you don’t qualify for the full amount. I found this out when I tried to use my benefit to pay for some CAD classes at my local community college. It ended up being too many hoops to jump through so I just got a loan from my Dad.
My $1200 ended up being a donation because I never used it within the 10 years.
I joined in ‘85… When I started using it I received $750 a month for the three years, interestingly they hyped it as 4 years of college… Since they failed to mention that they don’t pay for summer classes…! Slick F*ckers…!
I was discharged in 84. Damn, I’m old. I remember when they went to the AVF, I got a Pay raise from $168 to $364 the big bucks! btw, I was an E-3. See, the draft equals big savings. I better shut up and not give them any ideas…
At kos SusanG has an amazing diary: McCain Takes Credit for GI Bill He Opposed. This deserves a lot of exposure.
…
It occurs to me that I forgot to apply for unemployment when I got out in 1974. I wonder if I’d have gotten it.
Anyway, back then you had to have 180 consecutive days in before you were eligible for the G.I. Bill. It was a flat monthly stipend then; you paid for tuition, room & board and books out of your $270/month (at the time, my rent was $135 for a studio in Tucson). I survived without too much trouble.
When I left DOD contracting work in 1978 I still had five years or so left on the ten years from separation you were allowed to get the benefits, so I went back to school and got the B.S.B.A. in 1979. By that time it had gone up to $311/month, and I couldn’t have paid my own way without the savings I’d accrued while on the DOD job.
Later, when I started seeing how lousy that Montgomery bill’s benefits were, I was really really grateful I’d gotten in and out when I did (Vietnam-era vet, meaning not in-country but served during that war).
Did you actually read this? The way I figure it, you can get the $40,000 IF you meet the following conditions:
You already have at least a Bachelors Degree from a 4-year college
You speak Farsi or Persian, or Arabic
You have (in addition to the degree) a ’special skill” in something they really want
You have completed Officer Candidate School.
Now, if you have a BA/BS degree and have completed OCS, you are an officer. Not an enlisted peon, but an officer. Already.
So if you are an officer with a special skill and speak a middle eastern language, you can get $40,000.
Other than that - the $10,000 the earlier poster mentioned is probably about the max.
sorry - the last post was for nonplussed @ 45
By the way - I am a Vietnam-era vet also, female, and boy does that add another layer of complexity to almost everything - especially in VA health care.
Also, everyone please not to forget!
If you get one o them big bonuses, don’t get shot or anything. Cuz if you do and you can’t go back - the government will want it all back due to you ‘not completing your tour of duty’.