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	<title>Comments on: Taking the &#8220;Punitive&#8221; out of Punitive Damages</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/</link>
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		<title>By: jonerik</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515675</link>
		<dc:creator>jonerik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515675</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Standard Oil monopoly and its ugly spawn have always been objects of the special solicitude of the Supreme Court and the Courts of Appeal. In the early part of the last century, a district judge named “Kennesaw Mountain” Landis imposed a $29 million penalty on Standard Oil of NJ for paying kickbacks to railroad companies. A lot of money at that time. Like the Supreme Court in the above ruling, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals also deemed this excessive and reduced it significantly. Standard Oil was convicted multiple times for this crime in other courts. Yet when the Supreme Court broke up the Standard Oil trust in 1911, these crimes were not even mentioned. Now, of course, with our system of campaign financing, these monopolies can just pay to have the laws written the way they like them. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thee death penalty is legal and constitutional for human beings, why isn’t it legal for corporations like Exxon Mobil?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Standard Oil monopoly and its ugly spawn have always been objects of the special solicitude of the Supreme Court and the Courts of Appeal. In the early part of the last century, a district judge named “Kennesaw Mountain” Landis imposed a $29 million penalty on Standard Oil of NJ for paying kickbacks to railroad companies. A lot of money at that time. Like the Supreme Court in the above ruling, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals also deemed this excessive and reduced it significantly. Standard Oil was convicted multiple times for this crime in other courts. Yet when the Supreme Court broke up the Standard Oil trust in 1911, these crimes were not even mentioned. Now, of course, with our system of campaign financing, these monopolies can just pay to have the laws written the way they like them. </p>
<p>Thee death penalty is legal and constitutional for human beings, why isn’t it legal for corporations like Exxon Mobil?</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515627</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515627</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Souter’s language strongly suggests after-the-fact justification for a predetermined outcome.  It may be based on a suspicion that “punitive” damages don’t deter wrongful behavior or that they are inherently unjust and serve only to give plaintiffs’ an undeserved “windfall”, since they, not the state, receive the punitive damage award.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or maybe he was swayed by his neo-con colleagues pro-business bent.  After all, big bidness, especially big oil, is having a hard time of it these days.  Though it does seem to find enough cash to amply reward its departing CEO’s, failing ones most of all, ensuring that their - and the company’s - failings remain lost in obscurity.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whatever his rationale, Souter knows that he’s just gutted punitive damages as a deterrent to wrongful, typically corporate, behavior.  That will have dangerous, longterm consequences.  Couple it with Bush’s across the board gutting of the government’s regulatory efforts - not least by installing top industry lobbyists as putative agency heads and gutting agency budgets (FDA, OSHA, even IRS audit staff) — and it’s big business that’s received an enormous, undeserved windfall.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Chicago School notion of internalizing costs vs. externalizing them by shifting them to employees, consumers and suppliers - who can do little or nothing to prevent them - has been thrown on its head without a safety mat.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For preventive measures to work, they have to take place before harm occurs, or at least soon after it does, when the realization of the consequences of past bad acts becomes concrete rather than theoretical.  Punitive damages elicit preventive measures only when they are hefty relative to the ability of the wrongdoer to pay.  For me, that might be a a buck and a half.  For ExxonMobil, it’s probably ten-twenty billion, a fraction of a single year’s contemporary profits.  Five hundred million won’t make a dent.  For this Supreme Court, I guess that’s the point. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George Bush, it seems, has imposed his own morbid fear of accountability on the entire federal government.  That doesn’t mean that costs won’t be high.  Indeed, they’ll be higher because there’s less incentive to incur a cost you can outsource onto someone else.  Nor does it mean those higher costs won’t be paid.  They’ll just be paid by you and me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Souter’s language strongly suggests after-the-fact justification for a predetermined outcome.  It may be based on a suspicion that “punitive” damages don’t deter wrongful behavior or that they are inherently unjust and serve only to give plaintiffs’ an undeserved “windfall”, since they, not the state, receive the punitive damage award.  </p>
<p>Or maybe he was swayed by his neo-con colleagues pro-business bent.  After all, big bidness, especially big oil, is having a hard time of it these days.  Though it does seem to find enough cash to amply reward its departing CEO’s, failing ones most of all, ensuring that their &#8211; and the company’s &#8211; failings remain lost in obscurity.  </p>
<p>Whatever his rationale, Souter knows that he’s just gutted punitive damages as a deterrent to wrongful, typically corporate, behavior.  That will have dangerous, longterm consequences.  Couple it with Bush’s across the board gutting of the government’s regulatory efforts &#8211; not least by installing top industry lobbyists as putative agency heads and gutting agency budgets (FDA, OSHA, even IRS audit staff) — and it’s big business that’s received an enormous, undeserved windfall.  </p>
<p>The Chicago School notion of internalizing costs vs. externalizing them by shifting them to employees, consumers and suppliers &#8211; who can do little or nothing to prevent them &#8211; has been thrown on its head without a safety mat.</p>
<p>For preventive measures to work, they have to take place before harm occurs, or at least soon after it does, when the realization of the consequences of past bad acts becomes concrete rather than theoretical.  Punitive damages elicit preventive measures only when they are hefty relative to the ability of the wrongdoer to pay.  For me, that might be a a buck and a half.  For ExxonMobil, it’s probably ten-twenty billion, a fraction of a single year’s contemporary profits.  Five hundred million won’t make a dent.  For this Supreme Court, I guess that’s the point. </p>
<p>George Bush, it seems, has imposed his own morbid fear of accountability on the entire federal government.  That doesn’t mean that costs won’t be high.  Indeed, they’ll be higher because there’s less incentive to incur a cost you can outsource onto someone else.  Nor does it mean those higher costs won’t be paid.  They’ll just be paid by you and me.</p>
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		<title>By: drbonzo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515414</link>
		<dc:creator>drbonzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515414</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it interesting that some of the same wingnuts who are all agog over the no-killing-child-rapists ruling are supportive of this crazy one-to-one ratio notion for punitive damages vs. compensatory damages.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we were being &lt;em&gt;logical&lt;/em&gt; here, the reasoning presented in the punitive-damages decision would argue against applying capital punishment for a crime that didn’t result in a death, right?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, sorry.  We’re talking about Republicans.  No logic allowed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that some of the same wingnuts who are all agog over the no-killing-child-rapists ruling are supportive of this crazy one-to-one ratio notion for punitive damages vs. compensatory damages.</p>
<p>If we were being <em>logical</em> here, the reasoning presented in the punitive-damages decision would argue against applying capital punishment for a crime that didn’t result in a death, right?</p>
<p>Oh, sorry.  We’re talking about Republicans.  No logic allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: bluejeansntshirt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515397</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejeansntshirt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515397</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That was in New Paltz NY. highly recommend meetups. ya meet the nicest folks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was in New Paltz NY. highly recommend meetups. ya meet the nicest folks.</p>
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		<title>By: grumpyoldvet</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515385</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpyoldvet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515385</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well Mr Obama vioted for telecom immunity and has said he disagrees with the SC ruling regarding rape of a child ruling. Not as Preogressive as I would have thought. He’s a political animal and will do whatever to get elected.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Mr Obama vioted for telecom immunity and has said he disagrees with the SC ruling regarding rape of a child ruling. Not as Preogressive as I would have thought. He’s a political animal and will do whatever to get elected.</p>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515369</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515369</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for that. My outrrage had already surfaced before I read your comment.  As for my # 52. Uh.  Never mind.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that. My outrrage had already surfaced before I read your comment.  As for my # 52. Uh.  Never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515363</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515363</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;where was that?   wasn’t that for NJ people (among others)?  I’m a 1,000 miles away now.  Wished I had a excuse to be up there and could have made it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>where was that?   wasn’t that for NJ people (among others)?  I’m a 1,000 miles away now.  Wished I had a excuse to be up there and could have made it.</p>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515362</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515362</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Morin; everybody.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is an(other) outrage.  Look, lotsa states, (regrettably) have placed restrictive caps on punis. If the state hasn’t, courts should almsot always just stay the hell out of that detemination.  In my view this is “judicial activism”.  No trust of our citizen jurors?  They usually get it right.  The size of this award, inthe case of Exxon, doesn’t shock my conscience.  Not at all.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morin; everybody.</p>
<p>This is an(other) outrage.  Look, lotsa states, (regrettably) have placed restrictive caps on punis. If the state hasn’t, courts should almsot always just stay the hell out of that detemination.  In my view this is “judicial activism”.  No trust of our citizen jurors?  They usually get it right.  The size of this award, inthe case of Exxon, doesn’t shock my conscience.  Not at all.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515357</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515357</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;howdy bluejeansntshirt! it was great meeting you too. i had such fun and hope there will more meet ups&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>howdy bluejeansntshirt! it was great meeting you too. i had such fun and hope there will more meet ups</p>
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		<title>By: Twain</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515352</link>
		<dc:creator>Twain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/taking-the-punitive-out-of-punitive-damages/#comment-1515352</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christy’s upstairs&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy’s upstairs</p>
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