It’s a bit of a high wire act this morning, following the people’s business in both the House and Senate. But here’s how we are going to try and work things so that we can all follow along together.
Emptywheel will be liveblogging the House Judiciary Subcommittee Hearing this morning with testimony scheduled from David Addington, Christopher Schroeder and John Yoo. That hearing is scheduled to begin at 10:00 am ET. MSNBC has a brief rundown on potential testimony. But for some meaty analysis, Marty got his hands on the Yoo prepared remarks already. It looks like C-Span3 will be airing the hearing live.
Meanwhile, I’ll be keeping an eye on the Senate floor, where business will open this morning at 9:30 am ET for continuation of the 30 hours of debate on the FISA bill. There is no schedule in terms of who will be speaking on the floor — or if anyone will be — so we are going to play it by ear in watching this one together. Most likely a vote on the bill itself will occur sometime this evening but, again, nothing is set as yet.
For more analysis on the FISA bill, David Kris summed up his series here, and it is well worth a read. And Pat Lang had a guest post on some potential tech background on the questions involved with SIGINT that I found an intriguing read, but would love some thoughts from the techies in the audience on this. I thought this comment from Andy Vance was particularly astute, though, as to why this fight matters:
The objection isn’t about Geo. Bush monitoring my calls. It’s that 1) Geo. Bush dismantled FISA by executive fiat – part of a broader effort by this administration to dismantle Congress’ constitutional role – and 2) the new regime was implemented with zero - zero - oversight.
It’s going to be a bit of a balancing act today, so everyone hang on to your seats, grab another cuppa coffee and keep the popcorn at the ready…
UPDATE: Emptywheel has the liveblog thread up and running for HJC.
(H/T to reader lemma for forwarding the link to Pat Lang’s guest poster. Much appreciated.)
Related posts:
- When Pro-Business Ideology Goes Bad
- Business Roundtable: Health Care Costs Would Balloon Under Status Quo
- HJC Schedules “Get Democrats to Cave on PATRIOT” Hearing
- Obama: If Private Insurers are Such Crack Businesses, How Can “Incompetent” Government Put Them Out of Business?
- FISA v AUMF: Bush Wiretap Program Based on Lies






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Good morning, Christy.
Check out the facebook f for east coast firepup meet-up
Good Morning, FOr a good reflection (OT), NPR had a great story about the 60 year anniversary of the Berlin airlift, esp. candy for children. Reflecting on the best of the US, power + moral authority. Those were the days. Discussion with an author and a pilot. I miss the country I grew up to believe in…power, moral authority, generosity, and nothing to fear but fear itself.
Last week end Faux news said 74% of Americans wanted the FISA bill with immunity passed. Where did they get this info?
Obama is talking out of his ass with all that pol-speak about FISA. He is for security by gutting he 4th Amendment. Well, that makes sense. We all know what Ben Franklin said.
Apparently Obama doesn’t.
They asked around the FOX News staff break room during lunch.
And it was merely a coincidence that it was the last day of work for the 26%.
Probably the same place they get all the rest of their “statistics.” They pull them out of their… Ooops. Sorry. I was about to say something rude…
speaking of pups, where’s that LoudounLib, it’s her birthday today. I’ve been missing her.
christy – the HJC hearing is being covered gavel to gavel by kfpa – with scott horton. coverage has already begun. details here.
i think obama is running for “benevolent” dictator (or king) – not president. and he knows the difference.
Obama is perhaps turning into the biggest disappointment of the new century. If bush was the biggest disaster, Obama is already disappointing me anyhow. But then I was an Edwards supporter anyway.
Morning all..I have coffee and it’s going to be interesting/busy day..
Wonder what they are moving around in the shadows? while ‘we’ are watching to-days (very serious)games…
That quote re; by the time we/the people are trying to figure out current ‘Reality, they had already changed it… Bad guy quote paraphrased, but it stuck in my head…
Mitch McConnell is griping on the Senate floor at the moment. And sounds like he’s had tooth surgery or something — his enunciation is off. I’m gonna need another cuppa coffee…
Therein lies what the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid. But with no impeachment, no accountability, no enforcement of the “rule of law” there is now a neutered Congress and therefore an imbalance in the Republic.
What page of the WaPo did the Hoyer ad run on? Is anyone going to put up a scan of it?
Up their ass.l
quick question…is Gabby going to be up today? lots going on today..
Should I even call my Senator? (Spaceman Nelson)
I’m gonna puit that on. That could be funny. I’m trying to think of words he could say that will come out dirty because of his condition. I’ll go watch.
Here’s a good take:
Jane Hamsher & Bob Barr
The Third Man?
Why did so many support that awful FISA bill? (08:59)
Leftists and libertarians, bedfellows; Jane and Bob, blogfellows (04:11)
Why it won’t be Bob’s fault if McCain loses (01:41)
Bob’s states’-rights libertarianism, and how he got there (03:10)
How to tell Bob Barr and John McCain apart (04:58)
Could a President Barr make Bush & Co. pay for the Iraq mess? (08:33)
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/12251
I mean, I honestly don’t feel like it, but I’ll call if you guys say to, but this is a done deal at this point, no……?
Pat Lang’s piece: http://turcopolier.typepad.com…..ll-th.html
is very interesting and everything he is saying here is spot on(truth in advertising – I’ve been associated with the telecom business through a small dark fiber construction and leasing co. for about 8 years) – BUT – there is Mark Klein’s information about the notorious NSA ’secret room’ built in ATT’s CO in San Francisco. Big switches. Big cables. Probably not 100% their own traffic (even when companies own their own cables, a lot of other telcos and telco service providers lease cable fibers through IRUs) – Did the NSA tell ATT – “no, we only want to see the traffic on THESE fibers in this 144 fiber cable”? Hmmm? That would be a mind-boggling operation – They swept it ALL up through the signal splitters. In addition, there is another technology that some telco and telco service providers use called Dense Wave Multiplexing, where, on glass fiber, they can literally sell/lease light color wavelengths, within glass fibers(which vastly increases the capacity of the cable)…the amount of information that the NSA has been able to ‘hoover’ up through this secret room has been enormous. Yes, Pat Lang has a point with the whole ‘prepaid cell phone’ discussion – but the point really has to do with that CO in San Francisco(and supposedly there is another one in Quantico, VA as well).
I called the DNC and raised hell with them this morning ( in a christian way of course) and let them know how I felt about FISA capitulation by Democrats. That Dean needed to get them in line and Obama and Hillary should have been on the floor opposing retroactive immunity. I am so PO with all of them I could spit ten penny nails. Good discussion going on at Triangle Free forum not sure anyone called our Senators but we can hope.
Ahhhh…blessed coffee. Got a late start this morning, and then spent time on the phone, and didn’t get any brewed until just now. I have a feeling I’m going to need this whole pot to get through watching the Senate today. SIGH
I’m done with Obama myself, a huge disappointment.
I am throwing my support to punishing the fascists, supporting progressive dems, and casting my presidential vote for Bob Barr in protest.
I am debating whether I am going to re-register as Independent. I still want to vote in Democratic primaries to punish the likes of Murphy and Sestak, but then again those guys aren’t in my district, and I can do plenty of damage through actblue. SO I have some thinking to do…
And now we’re talking about a highway and infrastructure bill on the Senate floor…
after listening all day yesterday, i don’t think i have it in me to listen today. don’t know how you do it christy (i know the coffee helps). good luck and thanks for listening so i don’t have to.
on kfpa – scott horton and co going through all the background with various guests. i think they are in the hearing room (or a media room). hearing to begin momentarily.
Christy – have you ever considered just putting in one of these – http://www.ivleaguemedical.com…..rod=1050-2
That way, the caffein would just come in direct ;)
brendan – do think barr will have the most votes of all “third party” candidates?
Marcy and I are steeling ourselves for the day. *G*
Email to Obama, boo hoo if I was too harsh:
Senator Obama,
It is amazing, your words and actions regarding the the deplorable bill on FISA that would allow the president to spy on Americans and give immunity to telecom corporations that violated federal laws. It is amazing, how you think that we should sacrifice our Constitution and Bill of Rights because you are afraid. It is amazing, that you think supporting this reprehensible bill and avoiding a vote on cloture are examples of leadership. It is amazing, that you think your constituents and the people who have, up to now, supported your bid to become the next president are either so low-informed or just too stupid to know what you and Congress are trying to do.
I will not trade in my freedoms because the republicans want me to, or even because of a whole army of terrorists. Ich bin ein Berliner. Look it up. “Those that will give up freedom for some temporary security deserve neither freedom or security”. Look that up to. Those were leaders. They gave us change that we could actually believe in. What do we have now? Either outright liars, or triangulators and calculators looking for every angle to advance their careers. A chance of true leadership has passed you by, Senator. A chance for change that could be believed. This will not be forgotten.
And now we’re moving on to the medicare extension bill…
I don’t know. I know Barr’s not going to be the president, but after this FISA bullshit, I simply cannot vote for Obama. Also, I don’t like his reaction to the SCOTUS decision on the death penalty.
I’m not a purity troll, but there are some lines you don’t cross, some issues that are non-negotiable.
just a quick lament that Yoo and Addington are in front of the wrong Judiciary Committee – I’d have preferred the SJC…
hearing almost ready to start on CSpan 3.
From a legal perspective, his reaction on the SCOTUS decision was accurate. Morally, it’s another argument altogether — it would have been interesting to test the waters on a “death penalty for all rapists” for consistency’s sake argument, but that’s not a presidential election cycle nudge at the wingnuts water testing that you necessarily want to do from the campaign trail.
But the state’s rights argument is one that is legally accurate, and one that my quick glance at the SCOTUS decision doesn’t answer adequately, I don’t think.
But I haven’t had time to give it a thorough read…been a little busy this week.
inspiring – thank you. you give me hope for our country.
And I should have said that I’m not exactly a death penalty supporter, btw — am tired this morning, and I have a tendency to shorthand things a bit too much when I’m tired.
My television might explode from having someone as evil as Addington on it.
And speaking of travesties, news box item that Homeland Security border agents are copying the contents of travelers’ laptops and cell phones. Wow I feel safer already.
Nadler gavels it open.
thanks. i don’t know what to do, and it helps to hear other’s thinking.
that’s right, they feel free to copy your data at the entry point, so don’t be taking your laptop on your trip to the Horseshoe Falls of Niagra. Sounds like a violation of the 4th amendment to me
Just FYI- The post in question was actually not by Col. Pat Lang, but guest blogged by someone retired from NSA, Bob Devine, aka Cold War Zoomie.
what 4th amendment? :(
I understand, and IANAL.
I am, however, opposed to the Death Penalty, for two simple reasons: #1, if the state makes a mistake and kills and innocent person, there’s no taking that back or making amends; and #2, if the criminal IS guilty, then the death penalty is letting the perp off easy. Better the criminal rot for the rest of his/her life, watching life go on without him/her with no hope of freedom.
but that’s just me.
Ugh, Kit Bond is rambling on and on and on about why telecom companies shouldn’t be held liable for any damages — blah blah blah. I’m sure he’s thoroughly informed about all the information int he case because he’s a detail-oriented kinda guy…
Marcy has the liveblog thread up for the HJC hearing…
Egreg – as long as you don’t ‘look’ like a terrorist, I’ll bet your chances of having your laptop snagged are smaller.
And where is the Queen of Hearts from New York and the rest of the leadership in the Democratic Party who would undress Obama on the flooe of the Senate, kill his candidacy and run off ta the bank with the telecom money if he takes a stand?
I ain’t happy about his flip-flop but I got plenty of anger to place where it belongs here.
NO Toby, they feel free to check anyone’s laptop
Quorum call on the Senate floor now. Mercifully, Kit Bond finally finished…
Maybe Mitch is dippin’ into Cindy’s purse….
Thank you and Jane and everyone who work so hard to keep the information flowing, Christy. When the media wonder where their audiences have gone, they have but to look here and the blogosphere. America is starved for real news reporting and honest analysis, not the bread and circuses crapola.
These are testing times for all of us, and we want so much to make things right and our leaders let us down and we try to keep in perspective the whole picture and what we’re up against…we’ve got to keep focus on the prime directive: Democratic White House and more [and better] Democrats in Congress. We want to be sprinting to the finishline of the goal, but we’re tripped up along the way and this is a marathon….
.
.
.Prairie Today: Meet the Pres
lots of guilty parties. far too many of them with Ds after their names. but obama, also, and maybe more than all the rest, owns this one. :(
Yeah, Long day. Mental boost time…
Girl power.. (ok, no more OT today)
‘Martial arts expert Keiko Wakabayshi, nicknamed the “Samurai Granny”, has been hired by the country’s military to train recruits in hand-to-hand combat.’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..woman.html
Wexler last night on KO, talking about impeachment. He rocks. Would that more politicians had the courage of their convictions rather than fear of being convicted.
SCOTUS overrules DC gun ban, CNN reporting
Shorter Conyers: Ramble, ramble, ramble.
worse that that – conyers was talking all about the stuff that phillippe sands begged them – multiple times – not to bother with. don’t waste time with legal theories. find out who, what, where and when.
if the committee doesn’t do this, then they are bigger fuck ups than even i thought.
CNN opiner saying the 5-4 decision on DC gun ban has more to do with ideology and politics than the Constitution.
Sorry, Elliott – I should have added the snark warning…but you ARE correct.
I called Obama and ask for my money back!
unfortunately, he is also co sponsor of House Resolution 362
sorry, just keeping it real
A 5-4 decision. Apparently Scalia and the originalists consulted their ouja boards and discovered that the Founders did not mean what they very clearly meant. America’s sick love affair with guns continues.
War criminal John Yoo up and refers to written statement and stops. Nadler encourages him to summarize. Yoo speaks about having a professional obligation to the DOJ but wishes to help committee. Yoo talking about “professional obligations” is a lot like an SS officer talking about military honor.
Yes he is.
As it was pointed out to me earlier, we can ask him about that during Book Salon.
– CNN opiner saying the 5-4 decision on DC gun ban has more to do with ideology and politics than the Constitution. –
I’m reading the dissent right now, and I can tell you that as a matter of presumption, I consider ALL Democrats to be my mortal enemy. The dissent says that government can legislate “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” into oblivion.
The presumption I hold is rebuttable, to be sure, but it is visceral. I’m shocked that this came out 5-4. The DC law is low hanging, draconian fruit.
quick OT..They are voting/debating on the energy bill as well today????
Wow, Impunity, Oil goodies on the same day as Yoo hoo doing his protect the god king thing at the hearing..hmmm, What else? might we not have time to notice….
Shorter Yoo: What I did prevented terrorist attacks.
Well, this will certainly keep writers in their place.
I’ll bet Thomas Jefferson would have loved it.
Yes, America, once upon a time, pretended ‘democracy’ but, as time went by, and the world became ‘too dangerous’ a place for the people of that ostensible ‘democracy’ to be told the truth, the people had the good fortune to be led by wisdoms who not only made all of the ‘hard’ decisions, but who also realized that ‘freedom’ meant having 200 cable channels and lots of shopping malls, it had nothing to do with thought or travel or even having any say in one’s own life. This might have presented a ‘problem’ but, as the wisdoms were in regular contact with God, herself, the people rejoiced and were content.
Of course the people didn’t really go anywhere, except where it was safe, and Disneyland complexs were set up all over the country to compensate for the loss of access to the rest of the dangerous world and copies of the Constitution were made available at all such complexs, that the people might understand the primitive ignorance from which they had so courageously been saved by the aforementioned wisdoms, who, ultimately, had to become anonymous for security reasons …
And the people rejoiced, for they had nothing, in their virtue, to hide.
Henceforth, in the Homeland, as the nation came to be called, there was no shame but only unrestrained pride.
Note: The preceding snark is total snark except where you suspect it is not, and in that case, your brainwave signature is on record and you had better be very circumspect indeed, if you know what’s good for you. So there!
;~D
Is closing the Enron loophole in that energy bill?
Yeah, and my cocker spaniels keep the elephants out of the backyard, but meanwhile they’re crappin’ on the basil.
Yoo can rationalize and even self-delude himself all the way to SuperMax. He’s done more to tear down the fabric of this democracy than any terrorist could.
I was so happy to see that Justice Scalia does in fact acknowledge that this country has a Bill of Rights, even if his version only has one amendment in it.
Schroeder : battlefield for the WOT includes the USA
WOT?
Ha hahahaha too true. You know that some of them actually made that claim, especially the Waffen SS, which is pretty close to what Yoo & Co are/were.
War on Terror
Christy, you’ve got mail
Well, I’ve at least got some good news to report — Mr. ReddHedd’s mom is being stepped down from ICU today. Yay! Just got off the phone getting the update — did I miss anything other than lovely classical music in the Senate on C-Span?
And Huckleberry Graham is now up to vouch the FISA bill…
Hurrah for good news, Christy. Havin’ spent a tad bit o’time bedside in ICU and CCU units, I know what a big moment this is.
puts things in perspective. thank you for sharing your good news. ((( christy and family)))
Don’t want to interrupt the testimony & vote, but I am clutching myself with glee. Greenwald’s new film: Lieberman must go! Plus petition.
Very much so. No word yet on where things are with his dad today — he’s at a different hospital, and pending a surgical procedure, but it’s at least a ray of sunshine in an otherwise really rotten week…
nadler needs to let addington run with a question and not try to pin him down he will hang himself.. doesn’t nadler read marcy fer crying out loud?
Can the President order the violation of a federal statute, i.e. torture?
Add.: In general, no. Won’t answer unless specific but then chases his tail hypothetical, etc.
Huckleberry says he’s very much for civil liberties. I almost choked on my coffee…
Believe me when I say that we’ve all been trying to get that information out. For months. SIGH
Huckleberry needs to turn off his blackberry — which is ringing while he’s speaking on the Senate floor. *G*
Add.: I’m not here to give legal opinions. Meaning anything I don’t want to answer is a legal opinion.
i THOUGHT that’s what that was.
LOL.
first time i ever heard/read “Huckleberry”.
you guys here at the Lake are the NICK NAME KINGS!!!!!
lololol
i believe it! even i got that….
in my dreams, this hearing would be sands doing to the questioning with marcy advising.
Bitching about Sen. Obama saying he would take telecom immunity out of the bill is just nuts. He’s only doing it because the “hard left” has gone nuts over this.
So much for the respect for the civil liberties, eh, Lindsey? That whole Article III judiciary respect doesn’t matter for squat if it covers Cheney’s rear end to do otherwise, I suppose.
Probably, small* carrot in return for lotsa bad, sneaky shit too.
The housing bill has big traps/little carrots too
Senate Housing Bill to Require Collecting of Online Payment Information
http://techliberation.com/2008…..formation/
– did I miss anything other than lovely classical music in the Senate on C-Span? –
Senate is going to a mishmash of speeches until sometime this afternoon. They aren’t even on the bill yet.
When the Senate DOES formally get on the bill, the general contours of debate and vote before final passage will be revealed. I’m figuring after 4:00 p.m.
Huckleberry says our civil liberties will be better protected with this bill. And “the enemy” will be dealt with firmly and quickly.
“Those who want to undo this bill because of special interest pressure are not exercising the leadership needed at a time of war.”
Patty Murray now up talking about the GAO investigation on the Boeing/Airbus skewed decision.
I think that’s a good estimate — and I’m guessing we are looking at a final vote around 7-ish. But it’s just a guess, nothing on the schedule officially as yet.
(((Christy and Mr. Reddhedd)))
We had to move my father in law from assisted living into “memory care” earlier this week…so I share your need for caffeine! I also need more patience, but I’m guessing that won’t be happening any time soon…
Yoo is really having a hard time answering Conyers.
christy, hugh et al – should those of us listening to the hearing move over to marcy’s thread?
Conyers is totally rocking by now.
All out Lawyer on Lawyer Bash Out.
is anyone live blogging the hearing?
Conyers: do you think the preznit could order a suspect buried alive.
Yoo: I don’t think that . . . well uh, no preznit would ever have to do that, right, right?!?
conyers: just answer the question (really irritated)
Either place — I’m enjoying you all keeping me up on it, actually, since I’m listening to the Senate this morning and missing the hearing. *g*
Marcy is — it’s linked in this post and up top on FDL as well.
Conyers: I don’t need you, YOO, to interpret CHIT for me!
lol
ok – thanks!
Ooh Addington and Conyers going at it over unitary exec power. Sheez, addington comes across as arrogant. Conyers irrited.
My FIL is starting to have some dementia issues, so we are trying to figure out how to best deal with that on top of the health problems. They are likely to step him down from ICU today as well, he’s stabilizing, but there are heart issues to be dealt with before he gets anywhere close to out of the hospital. It has really been a tough coupla weeks for our family with this. But getting good news today was wonderful.
Quorum call on Senate floor now…
I sure wish they wouldn’t do all this stuff in ONE time slot!
I’m certain there’s a reason for that.
dammit!
scuse the language.
multitasking. You’re missing some fireworks in the House because of the personalities involved, but I agree FISA the whole sad debacle is more important.
WTF
Haven’t the WMD and Chemical Weapons in Iraq been totally revealed as Admin. fraud by now?
Why is Iowa R. citing that?
Good news is the best–and as we get to this point in our loved ones’ lives, we have to accept it, even if it’s just a small dose.
Unfortunately, I know way too much about dementia issues (grandma, now gone, FIL, who’s 83, and my mom was just diagnosed at 74–gulp). So, it’s a path we’re very familiar with in my house.
Addington: we looked at this through three filters (1) defend the constitution. (Ha!) (2) maximize prenznit’s options (3) Are our guys going to war on Terra legally protected. Things were different back then. Smoke still. Things may be different now, but the Terraists are coming. They are they are.
(((Reddhead Family)))
glad you got that much deserved ray of sunshine
Jay Rockefeller now up discussing FISA and civil liberties concerns…
Davis: were Sensenbrenner, Spector consulted on meaning of torture back then?
Addington, Yoo, : I dunno.
Yoo: I read the papers, that’s all I know.
Addington: I did not.
Wants to take the time to explain how negotiators of the bill have taken great care in crafting this agreement. (Note to Jay: then why did you shut both the ACLU and EFF out of the discussions altogether?)
Yep, Martha – I’ve gone through it too – you get sensitized to it.
Sensenbrenner is a complete @##$%
Sorry. (!)
Davis: You had a rethug congress that rubberstamped everything related to national security, so . . . if you had come to congress and asked for torture, would we be here ? Why are you so disrespectful of the legislative branch, when in Oct 2001, congress rubberstamp would have given you anything including torture statute.
kick ‘im in the shins next time you see him–from all of us.
[Mod: please do not advocate violence, even in jest]
It’s one of those things that I wish I didn’t know so much about…but we’ve learned alot that we can help other people just starting down this road.
Ellison: 2002 memo. Confirm what addington said?
Yoo: I can’t answer that, my counsel won’t let me, er uh . . .
Who else was in the room when I checked with addington? Er justice dept. won’t let me . . .
Ellison: I hope this isn’t coming out of my time, chairman?
Conyers: Are you asserting a privelege Mr. Yoo? What privilege are you asserting. We are entitled,
Yoo: Attorney/client privelege.
Ellison: you contributed to memo, right? When was it implemented.
Yoo: what do you mean by implemented?
Ellison: You’re wasting my time. I am not getting into semantical games. Are you saying memo was never put into effect? Do you understand what implement means?
Schroeder: Memo for CIA, some of techniques outlined by yoo were employed once they were supposed to fall on the legal side.
Ellison: So did they follow the techniques outlined in your memo?
Yoo: Umm, what?!?
Ellison: Did interrogaters ever come back to you for interpretation
Yoo: Er uh . .
Ellison: Was memo in effect during Abu Ghraib?
–Hope I got that exchange right.
Yoo. Answer to Ellison. It’s all classified.
Davis: I have never seen two witnesses having difficulty answering questions. Chair, how can we get them to be more responsive.
Conyers: Recess soon for vote.
One of my cousins in the UK went through the same thing with my aunt; another cousin out in KS went through it with her mom — I was on the phone, the IM, or email with both of these people several times a week. They got me through the whole thing with my mom – I try to help others who have questions also – it’s hard and scary – and ‘doing what is best’ at times does not make any sense at all. Don’t get me on a discussion of Respirdal or Ambien at all.
Ellison to Yoo: Did your memo allow for sicking dogs on detainees?
Yoo: Memo speaks for itself.
Committee in recess for votes on the House floor, to resume at approx. noon eastern.
Wasserman Schultz: Did you go to Gitmo (time period?)
Addington: about 5 times. DOD sent me.
WS: Did you discuss interrogation there.
Addington: I saw rooms.
WS: did you talk of specific types of interrogation in memo?
Addington: Oh, I don’t remember
WS: Hard to believe you “don’t remember.” So I’ll ask again.
Addington: don’t recall. Let me try and be helpful when you question me (a little advice to the little women)
WS: I don’t need your help . . . Seems torture got worse after you went there. Tha’s why I ask. Weeks after Aug. memo, did you discuss this with WH counsel.
Addington: did not
WS: So you deny Vanity fair report. What did you oberrve at GItmo
Addington: Oh just a little talky talk with a detainee in an orange jumpsuit.
Fortunately, we haven’t gone there yet (drug-wise). FIL and mom are responding well to Aricept, but FIL is at the end of its benefits. It’s put mom into holding pattern for 6 mo to a year.
Neither need sedation yet. Grandma did at the end. I’m really happy with the facility FIL is in–a “continuum of care” place…starts with independent living to assisted living to memory care to nursing home. He entered at assisted living stage. It has given him stability and familiarity and routine and organized activities that we could not. Mom is still at home with Dad but could benefit from some of that extra stimulation, to be candid.
What a pig.
Wasserman-Schultz did GOOOOD! must call her office and say so.
also
please digg this.
:)
Fresh thready goodness, up and running for everyone…
Aricept had no effect on my mom – but she had multi-infarct dementia, which is an entirely different beast. One moment, she was great – the next, she was screaming and yelling that we were trying to poison her. It was real ’see the aliens coming out of the ceiling – making a break for the front door – taking clothing off in public’ sort of stuff.
Oh Toby, I’m so sorry. My grandfather had similar issues years ago before they ever had any medication that could help (back in the mid-80s). It was so tough on everyone, most of all him — he was constantly alternating between abject terror and utter, weeping confusion. It’s so incredibly tough to watch someone you care about go through that.
We are at the very early edge of it with my FIL, and I’m not certain where it is going to go from here…
I think that’s probably what my grandma had–it’s been 12 years ago, so pre-Aricept. She was much more agitated and difficult to “control”. So far, FIL is his usual sweet self, just a quieter shell. Mom, we’ll see.
My mother was just diagnosed this week – Alzheimers – but there is already a lot of deterioration. So we are going down that road too.
(((Fern)))
So sorry, Fern. Big hugs…it’s really rough.
My grandfather had alzheimers as well when I was a kid. It’s hard hard hard. I always feel guilty when I think of him as if there was something I could have done better.
I think one big lesson we learned was to make sure you’re working with a gerontologist or an internist that specializes in elderly people. General practitioners are great, but they don’t have the time to keep up on all the latest stuff. A huge issue is that many really common drugs that older folks take actually makes dementia worse or causes dementia-like symptoms. So, if you live near a university town with an Alzheimer’s clinic, go there. My FIL’s gerontologist was ticked recently when the FIL’s general practitioner prescribed some meds that made things worse for a few days…
Thanks for that advice – She is seeing a gerontologist, someone with a very good reputation. I just with her GP had referred her much earlier – things have been deteriorating for quite some time.
Great, sounds like my mom’s situation. We didn’t want to face reality because she’s only 74. My father in law is 83, so that’s a bit more palatable, I guess. Well, not really, but…