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	<title>Comments on: Use a Gun, Get Bombed</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: ojintoad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516891</link>
		<dc:creator>ojintoad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516891</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you for an example.  Would love to see more cited examples.  Will look on my own time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Eureka, your article just happens to point to the problem being related more to the overuse of SWAT teams for inappropriate situations rather than a problem with gun control.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for an example.  Would love to see more cited examples.  Will look on my own time.</p>
<p>Eureka, your article just happens to point to the problem being related more to the overuse of SWAT teams for inappropriate situations rather than a problem with gun control.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516668</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516668</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think the second amendment was correctly interpreted in this case.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Drugs are associated with violence because there is no civil legal recourse in the illegal drug business. That violence is an unintended consequence of prohibition of some drugs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;De-escalation of violence is not likely with out a change in policy - going after the harms of substance misuse and having a regulated civil market of some form for them. I’ve advocated medicalization as a possible short term policy change.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Police no knock raids are bad tactics that lead to mistakes and dead civilians.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the second amendment was correctly interpreted in this case.</p>
<p>Drugs are associated with violence because there is no civil legal recourse in the illegal drug business. That violence is an unintended consequence of prohibition of some drugs.</p>
<p>De-escalation of violence is not likely with out a change in policy &#8211; going after the harms of substance misuse and having a regulated civil market of some form for them. I’ve advocated medicalization as a possible short term policy change.</p>
<p>Police no knock raids are bad tactics that lead to mistakes and dead civilians.</p>
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		<title>By: Eureka Springs</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516073</link>
		<dc:creator>Eureka Springs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516073</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=99fc8214-b6a6-4c39-b5b2-eb9e39dd8d33&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Happen&lt;/a&gt;s far more often than folks talk about.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=99fc8214-b6a6-4c39-b5b2-eb9e39dd8d33" rel="nofollow">Happen</a>s far more often than folks talk about.</p>
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		<title>By: dowah</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516062</link>
		<dc:creator>dowah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516062</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Atlanta Georgia police recently kicked down the door of the home of an elderly black lady in the middle of the night. They made no announcements of their presence or identity beforehand because it was a DRUG BUST! They had the wrong house. She shot at them and they of course  all fired back, killing her. There was a lawsuit, but, big deal! She’s dead for having tried to defend herself.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Get ready folks!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Atlanta Georgia police recently kicked down the door of the home of an elderly black lady in the middle of the night. They made no announcements of their presence or identity beforehand because it was a DRUG BUST! They had the wrong house. She shot at them and they of course  all fired back, killing her. There was a lawsuit, but, big deal! She’s dead for having tried to defend herself.</p>
<p>Get ready folks!</p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516013</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516013</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;– &lt;i&gt;Have you taken a look at “A pragmatist’s view on FISA” by NCrissieB over at the Great Orange Satan?&lt;/i&gt; –&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not til just now.  It’s pretty good.  See also NSL (National Security Letters).  There have been narrow adverse decisions against the NSL aspect of the USA PATRIOT Act.  I haven’t followed the issue since the Court ruled the law unconstitutional in view of the fourth amendment (fairly recently too - within the last 6-8 months, by memory)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I emphatically agree that privacy is compromised by alot more than FISA, and that FISA is just (in principle) the narrow class out of international communications.  But even there, I think people should have a reasonable expectation of privacy - or, if the government is going to grab all of it, the government should say so, so people can seek alternative means of communication or otherwise code their private communications.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “wall of separation” was actually entirely within the FBI.  I think bureaucratic fiefdoms within the law enforcement community is a bad thing.  There are bad guys, the government ought to follow reasonably developed suspicions, and the government ought to keep it’s eyes peeled.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t think Congress will get it right.  Not this year, not next year.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>– <i>Have you taken a look at “A pragmatist’s view on FISA” by NCrissieB over at the Great Orange Satan?</i> –</p>
<p>Not til just now.  It’s pretty good.  See also NSL (National Security Letters).  There have been narrow adverse decisions against the NSL aspect of the USA PATRIOT Act.  I haven’t followed the issue since the Court ruled the law unconstitutional in view of the fourth amendment (fairly recently too &#8211; within the last 6-8 months, by memory)</p>
<p>I emphatically agree that privacy is compromised by alot more than FISA, and that FISA is just (in principle) the narrow class out of international communications.  But even there, I think people should have a reasonable expectation of privacy &#8211; or, if the government is going to grab all of it, the government should say so, so people can seek alternative means of communication or otherwise code their private communications.</p>
<p>The “wall of separation” was actually entirely within the FBI.  I think bureaucratic fiefdoms within the law enforcement community is a bad thing.  There are bad guys, the government ought to follow reasonably developed suspicions, and the government ought to keep it’s eyes peeled.</p>
<p>I don’t think Congress will get it right.  Not this year, not next year.</p>
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		<title>By: Blub</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516000</link>
		<dc:creator>Blub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1516000</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;sorry.. I meant my post 93 in the previous thread.. since added more :P&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry.. I meant my post 93 in the previous thread.. since added more :P</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515999</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515999</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not anti-gun, but I can see every reason for reasonable restrictions and regulations.  Say like automatics and AK-47s and those funky rocket launchers.  You wouldn’t want me to have something like that, I’d wake up cranky very early one morning and take out that frikken helicopter that lives too near by.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not anti-gun, but I can see every reason for reasonable restrictions and regulations.  Say like automatics and AK-47s and those funky rocket launchers.  You wouldn’t want me to have something like that, I’d wake up cranky very early one morning and take out that frikken helicopter that lives too near by.</p>
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		<title>By: Blub</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515993</link>
		<dc:creator>Blub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515993</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m anti-gun. Period. I also support strongly interventionist/federally-sponsored programs in schools and communities to eradicate gangs, using both soft measures and brute force.  I strongly believes that drugs are the real terrorism. Also, please see my last post in the previous thread.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m anti-gun. Period. I also support strongly interventionist/federally-sponsored programs in schools and communities to eradicate gangs, using both soft measures and brute force.  I strongly believes that drugs are the real terrorism. Also, please see my last post in the previous thread.</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515989</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515989</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Have you taken a look at “&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/26/62819/0991/926/542170&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A pragmatist’s view on FISA&lt;/a&gt;” by NCrissieB over at the Great Orange Satan?&lt;br /&gt;
It looks like an important contribution to the FISA debate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I remember very clearly during the 9/11 hearings about what a “terrible” thing the Wall of Separation between FBI and CIA was, and how the need to keep intelligence operations separate from criminal investigations was “ruining” our ability to anticipate terrorist operations. (Fear! Fear! Be Very Afraid!!!) That lead to the U.S. Patriot Act, which may, in effect, have neutralized the Fourth Amendment, as NCrissieB argues. Is a court test of that anywhere in the works?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think this whole issue needs to be revisited next year, with a new Congress. In particular, the article in the June 12 issue of the New York Review of Books that compares British anti-terrorism efforts with our own is much on point.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What do you think?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Have you taken a look at “<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/26/62819/0991/926/542170" rel="nofollow">A pragmatist’s view on FISA</a>” by NCrissieB over at the Great Orange Satan?<br />
It looks like an important contribution to the FISA debate.</p>
<p>I remember very clearly during the 9/11 hearings about what a “terrible” thing the Wall of Separation between FBI and CIA was, and how the need to keep intelligence operations separate from criminal investigations was “ruining” our ability to anticipate terrorist operations. (Fear! Fear! Be Very Afraid!!!) That lead to the U.S. Patriot Act, which may, in effect, have neutralized the Fourth Amendment, as NCrissieB argues. Is a court test of that anywhere in the works?</p>
<p>I think this whole issue needs to be revisited next year, with a new Congress. In particular, the article in the June 12 issue of the New York Review of Books that compares British anti-terrorism efforts with our own is much on point.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: ojintoad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515987</link>
		<dc:creator>ojintoad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/26/breaking-own-a-gun-get-bombed/#comment-1515987</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Can you explain what you mean by this?  The article Scarecrow referenced showed no incident of what he’s describing might happen, just that a SWAT team in LA did their job well and no innocents got hurt (unless they are withholding information, which is a bigger problem).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you want to say that the current hand gun bans in urban areas have prevented this supposed situation, I’m willing to accept it, but I don’t think there’s any hard evidence to back that argument.  This situation may have occurred, but I’ve never understood it to be the norm.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you explain what you mean by this?  The article Scarecrow referenced showed no incident of what he’s describing might happen, just that a SWAT team in LA did their job well and no innocents got hurt (unless they are withholding information, which is a bigger problem).</p>
<p>If you want to say that the current hand gun bans in urban areas have prevented this supposed situation, I’m willing to accept it, but I don’t think there’s any hard evidence to back that argument.  This situation may have occurred, but I’ve never understood it to be the norm.</p>
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