Yesterday evening, Sen. Chris Dodd gave a ripping speech on the Senate floor regarding FISA, the rule of law, and the disrespect for the institutions of government that supporters of telecom immunity have shown. It was the best speech anyone has given since this whole illegal domestic spying program was revealed.
Sen. Dodd laid out the law and the facts of the whistleblower revelations about what has been done…everything. It was clear, concise, and passionate, and if you missed it last night, you need to watch it.
Here’s just a segment:
…And if I have needed any reminder of that fact, simply look to all those who have joined this fight – my colleagues and the many, many Americans who have given me strength for this fight. Strength that comes from the passion and eloquence of citizens who don’t have to be involved, but choose to be nonetheless.
They see what I see in this debate – that by short-circuiting the judicial process we are sending a dangerous signal to future generations. They see us establishing a precedent that Congress can—and will—provide immunity to potential law breakers, if they are “important” enough….
Mr. President, unwarranted domestic spying didn’t happen in a panic or short-term emergency, not for a week, or a month, or even a year. If it had, I might not be here today.
But that isn’t the case. What we now know is that spying by this Administration went on, relentlessly, for more than five years….
But that isn’t the case either, Mr. President. Indeed, I am here today because with offense after another after another, I believe it is long past time to say: “enough.”
I am here today because of a pattern—a pattern of abuse against civil liberties and the rule of law. Against the Constitution—of which we are custodians, temporary though that status may be….
So, why are we here? Because, Mr. President – it is alleged that giant telecom corporations worked with our government to compile Americans’ private, domestic communications records into a database of enormous scale and scope.
Secretly and without a warrant, those corporations are alleged to have spied on their own customers – American customers.
Here’s only one of the most egregious examples. According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation:
Clear, first-hand whistleblower documentary evidence [states]…that for year on end every e-mail, every text message, and every phone call carried over the massive fiber-optic links of sixteen separate companies routed through AT&T’s Internet hub in San Francisco—hundreds of millions of private, domestic communications—have been…copied in their entirety by AT&T and knowingly diverted wholesale by means of multiple “splitters” into a secret room controlled exclusively by the NSA.
The phone calls and internet traffic of millions of Americans, diverted into a secret room controlled by the National Security Agency. That allegation still needs to be proven in a court of law. But it clearly needs to be determined in a court of law and not here in Senate.
I suppose if you only see cables and computers there, the whole thing seems almost harmless. Certainly nothing to get worked up about—a routine security sweep, and a routine piece of legislation blessing it….
I imagine you wouldn’t see much harm in voting to allow this practice to continue either.
But if you see a vast dragnet for millions of Americans’ private conversations, conducted by a government agency that acted without a warrant, acted outside of the rule of law—then, I believe, you’ll recognize what’s at stake here. You’ll see that what’s at stake is the sanctity of the law and the sanctity of our privacy. And you’ll probably come to a very different conclusion….
Read the entire speech and watch it on video here. Bravo, Sen. Dodd — and thank you for standing up, time and time again, on this issue. Much appreciated.
Glenn, dday, Kagro, emptywheel — all have more on this issue. And I’ll have more in a bit as well.
UPDATE: The Senate, for this morning at least, will be dealing with housing bill issues. Just confirmed that with some folks on the Hill. Am keeping an eye on this, though, and will update if that changes.
Related posts:
- Excerpts Released from President’s Speech Make No Mention of Public Option
- Early Morning Swim: Florida GOP Chief Convinced White House Changed School Speech to Appease Him
- SF Tobacco Law Survives Challenge; Attention Turns to Pending SCOTUS Commercial Speech Decision
- Liberal Media Characterizes Obama’s Back to School Speech as “Controversial”
- Early Morning Swim: Special Rachel Analyzes Obama’s Speech Edition





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Christy!
Morning barbara! Ahhhhh…second cuppa coffee…
First cup of coffee….but oh so validating to wake up and see this post. (after a night with the kids at grandma’s. delicious)
Wooot!!!
Trying to think of ways to appreciate Dodd. Maybe he doesn’t need the money but I am going to send him a few dollars anyway just to show how I seriously I appreciate his stand up on this. When I send money, it’s serious.
What other ways can we show how many are behind him.
Feels good, that perhaps all those phone calls and faxes, matter to someone.
Morning Christy!
That was quite the speech indeed, hope he changed some Senate minds.
Thanks for this Christy. I saw all of Dodd live. I was very pleased. Using st. ronny’s own words, masterfull.
{sipping sounds} as opposed to sucking sounds.
Remember all those “tests” that were out there when the Dem field was huge? Check your stand on issues and see which candidate matches your views? I was endlessly surprised at how often Chris Dodd showed up in the top few of my results. Chris Dodd? Who?
Well, now I know. Now we know. Hmmmm.
Damn I like that Chris Dodd.
Obama, why can’t you be more like your brother in the Senate?
I’m glad Dodd attempted to paint a broad picture of domestic surveillance. So much discussion of FISA issues treats the federal surveillance programs as surgical efforts at excising bad guys.
‘G’mornin’…first cuppa coffee…typo warning…
Yes, I too watched Dodd’s speech on rawstory.com. ‘teh awesome’ as my kids are wont to say. At the same time, an email from Sen. Clinton dropped into my mailbox with her message: “Now, the Bush Administration has vowed to block any surveillance legislation that does not provide retroactive immunity to telecommunication companies. I believe that granting retroactive immunity under these circumstances is wrong and undermines accountability. To that end, I supported and co-sponsored efforts to strip this provision from the FISA legislation. I was discouraged to see that amendment fail the last time it was considered in the Senate. In the weeks to come, I will continue to work with my colleagues to pass an improved bill, one that takes the needed steps to defend our homeland while also defending and respecting our Constitution, our laws, and our privacy“
There is only one word to describe the sentiment impelling Americans to give up their liberties: COWARDICE. The Republicans are purveyors of cowardice, and the democrats are betting that the cititzen of the United States can’t resist. And the founding fathers foresaw this danger. Scott Horton quotes this from a message from Madison to Jefferson:
This cave by the democrats is so cowardly. People don’t respect cowards. Is it any wonder demos are thought of as the weakling party? The repugs would never do this, they do what they want, the public be damned and it gets them re-elected. They piss on your foot and tell you it’s raining. The dems just can’t see that voters detest ass kissers and will vote against them even against their own interests.
Dodd was my first choice all along and even though he’d already dropped out, I still voted for him during the primary since he was still on the ballot.
“…every e-mail, every text message, and every phone call carried over the massive fiber-optic links of sixteen separate companies routed through AT&T’s Internet hub in San Francisco—”
Something for us all to remember — the communications system in the world — the internet especially — bounces around. I recall a site that I saw once years ago that showed how and where internet stuff was being routed and my emails in Upstate NY to my sister in the DC area were being bounced all over the country before they got to her. So, people need to understand that it was not just West Coast people’s communications that were being swept up in that room in SF.
- General Warrants
- Writs of Assistance
- Private Bill (retroactive and prospective immunity)
What’s not to love?
;)
Initially, I was a very big fan of Dodd, but I became a bit disillusioned with him when he said that he wouldn’t prosecute BushCo. He was the last candidate I expected that from, given how proud the is of his father’s service as a prosecutor at Nuremberg.
I would add ‘complacency’ to cowardice. Many Americans do not participate in their own government.
(((Quaker girl)))
This capitulation on FISA is the end result of Pelosi taking impeachment off the table. Since they decided not to impeach, they had to leaglize the whole thing or else admit Bush broke the law. Admiting he broke the law means impeachment and so around and around we go.
The NSA vacuuming is based on a number of trigger words/phrases. I think it is time for all communications to include all, or at least some, of those trigger words which, hopefully will screw up their system. Words like bomb, terrorist and muslim. It is time for citizen action to screw their system.
bom dia pups
I was on the road last night but my local liberal station played parts of the speech live.
I wonder if the NSA has programmed lolcat into their triggers yet *s
Off to work! Keep an eye on those wankers!!
Crap, Exxon just won in the Supreme Court.
“…I have a hit on Echelon, keyword ‘Blackbriar.’ Repeat, ‘Blackbriar.’ It appears to be a European signal…”
Bourne Ultimatum @10:19.
No longer fiction.
I saw Dodd, sent Dodd love via fax: the faxes almost always seem to get through when phone mailboxes are full. OT, for people who are counting scandals, Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) has just droned on to reveal Treasury IG Shindell (acting) has intervened to close an investigation into misuse of Public Transit Subsidy Program by “Senior Treasury Officials,” whoever they are. Add it to the list…
Unfortunately, the Republicans have the advantage that they’re the party of big business, so they can sell out to big corporate donors and only be corrupt, not cowardly. Unfortunately, in this case, for the Dems it seems to be more corruption than cowardice:
Telecom industry contributions to Dems pay off big
Great Speech.
A bit off topic, but can anyone explain to me why Republicans confuse the usage of the two words Democrat and Democratic? I just listened to Indiana Rep. Pence on C-Span and was so annoyed by his talking points that I phoned his office to ask the same question. They could not answer it. Help me out here.
Pelosi effective disabled the safeguard that the founding fathers put into the system for preventing presidential abuse. She thereby enabled the continuation of a well-documented on-going program of war crimes, an actionable breach of oversight responsibility.
same here dakine at 15, same here……..but i guess he’s needed in the senate more than the white house with the lack of sens and reps with steel balls walking the halls.
pups, send him some love and thank him, and if inclined, money, he still has campaign debt.
http://www.chrisdodd.com/doddpod
and while you’re at it, thank kucincih for his articles of impeachment….their office staff is my favorite on the hill.
1-800-450-8293
i keep telling reps and sens that i don’t know of one voter that has said, hey, the telcos should get immunity. who are they representing with their vote?
and then i tell them how many have contributed to blueamericafisa in just a week….for ads against dems who voted for the telcos and the loopholes that would prevent prosecution of those who broke our laws.
======
OHIO ALERT-or anyone else that wants to call, they didn’t ask me where i was from…..
and ohioans, there is a bill on strickland’s desk right now, ready to sign, and he’s indicated he’s going to sign it, that will make it law that if you have 2 dui’s and are pulled over, they can take your blood right there and now……we really don’t want that door opened….
i already called about it……
1-614-644-help
Breaking News:
Bush Administration to appease charter member of the Axis of Evil, North Korea.
John Bolton’s head explodes.
-G
It’s an intentional slur.
Clinton:
People like Clinton, whose idea of ‘defending the homeland’ is to engage in sabre rattling, harassment, belligerence, and outright hostilities against nations thousands of miles away should be banished from the Senate
I would like to hear more from those who are willing to push for a ‘live and let live’ foreign policy less from people attracted to her pernicious, pea-brained, self-centered parochialism.
Unfortunately, their filtering is sophisticated enough not to trigger on random keywords (based on the word of a friend who’s a contractor working on this sort of thing.)
Ah, now that Condi wants to set up a hair salon/shoe boutique in Tehran, they have to move on.
This whole bill is a disgrace, and Barack Obama is a disgrace himself for breaking his promise to filibuster.
-Sigh- looks like my money is going to act blue and my vote is going to Bob Barr in protest.
Good Morning Christy and firedogs -
so relieved to see Dodd step up – there were moments since last friday where I doubted him
I has a confusion -
am working strictly from the premise that this is all about Dem complicity and permanently hiding it from public view. I still think Harry’s announced opposition is just more slight of hand –
but after reading Kagro’s post – (everybody wanting to go back to their districts claiming to have voted on Mortgage, unemployment, eye-rack suppl.)was this just more of their cluelessness/tin ears ?(I mean rully, who don’t they misread ?!?!?) did they actually just screw this up by trying to ram it through without checking the agenda first ?
I will continue to hope for and work for delay, delay, delay – but coming from my accepted premise, they will find a way to run the table soon
I’m betting it doesn’t need trigger words. They can afford the capacity to record and archive (in perpetuity) EVERYTHING, i.e., all phone calls and keystrokes of everyone.
Is this on youtube? May be a good way to virulize it.
Salut! to Dodd, and thanks, Christy, for keepin’ us up to date.
And remember, all of this started before 9/11. Guess they didn’t manage to keep us safe on that one…
We need to make “Dodd’s speech” the viral Word O’the Day.
Going to update with this link at my homeblog now…spread the word, pups! Digg, Spotlight [haven’t seen anything yet on CNN], comment on Cafferty’s blog, email Tweety and KO and Brokaw/MTP, spread to Mr. Shieffer, recommend to HuffPo, email Mr. Rich…. work to be done…. fire up.
Prairie [there’s gotta be a nap in this day somewhere] Today: Big Oiiillll. Big Bad Oil.
I dunno – is removing North Korea from the terror watch list good or bad? A victory for Condi, and Cheney is against it, but what is the reality?
Homeland Homeland uber alles…..
Frank Luntz did a focus group years back (in the Gingrich era) and found that people had positive reactions to “Democratic Party” but negative or less positive ones to “Democrat Party”. They then set out on a deliberate campaign to train all their people to use the wrong name, for that slight advantage (and to be assholes), leaving Democrats with the unhelpful options of letting it go or weakening their own message by stopping to correct it.
How about Nader in protest. At least go left :-)
They do it deliberately as a word choice so that “democrat” sounds jarring to the ear. It’s a Frank Luntz special…
So it is time to find out just what phrases/context they are monitoring.
prolly some “Pioneer” or “Ranger” who would benefit immensely if the embargo were lifted – it’s all about “the commerce” with this cabal
Remember when you misbehaved in school as a child and they shouted “THIS.WILL.GO.IN.YOUR.PERMANENT.RECORD!” ?
FISA is an Obomination !
It is the nuke industry that wants to build their damn polluting power plants…. says he from the shadow of Seabrook.
It’s a slur to disavow the lexical adjective implication of actually being “democratic.”
viva Clamshell Alliance !!!
(yep, I’m that old :D)
Except if you are an applicant for hiring at the DOJ – in which case, ‘your permanent record’ only lasts until the IG wants to investigate. Then, it gets weeded.
bwahahahahahaha….oh my. Cue shrill shrieking from crazy Pam in 5…4…3…
Gosh, do you think we were in prison together?
my 53 was for you – more coffee
Hi, wb. I’ve been hit or miss here lately. Any word on (((Quaker Girl)))?
What Bobby said. Next time someone says it, refer to them as the republic party and see the reaction. I have done it a few times and they stopped with the slur.
we were all so disappointed when they arrested, handcuffed and took us all to jail at Diablo Canyon (I sat behind Martin Sheen) – but released us all without a record
Wait, wait! Help me understand how a vote for Bob Barr helps America. I am not being snarky.
I received a response from Obama yesterday to an email in which he called the FISA bill an “imperfect compromise” but one he would support. I no longer support Obama.
I also received a reply from Dick Durbin. He said he was against telecom immunity but studiously avoided saying whether he would vote against the bill (he probably will) or participate in a filibuster of it (he probably won’t).
I haven’t been on as much lately so I have no idea. I just send her lots of love, peace and light.
mercy!
I didn’t realize you were hardened criminal!
Christy, now that Rockridge is defunct, do you know what George Lakoff is up to now? He is the Dems best hope in framing and messaging, IMO.
Sorry to hear that but I understand your disappointment. I’m also very disappointed but it is more than one issue for me. I, we as a nation cannot and will not survive under John McCain
They even use it in written communication, I’ve rec’d replies from my rep Virginia Foxx (ych) referencing SCHIP as the “democrat bill”.
I was a guest of John Sununu for an overnight. He was bought and paid for by the nuke industry and went on to become a whore for bush1.
Gotta go and do hously duties
just got off the phone after a long conversation with a volunteer at the obama campaign.
read him obama’s statement in sc among other things (from casual_observer at glenn’s)
i promised not to quote him, but i will say the entire conversation was not encouraging.
also – my phone call was picked up on the first ring.
Pretty sure he has another book coming out…beyond that, though, I don’t know.
From Wikipedia:
Democrat Party (phrase)
Seems valid to me. Like Canada Geese. Have a 2-4 for me, eh?
keep up the good work Selise. I’ll call as well (when I’m done for the day at the Food Bank) and put some pressure on as well. We have to keep those feet to the fire – keep them all accountable to the american people
Tol’ ya.
it’s a slur. they do it on purpose. they have been called on the carper for it too (one of the members of congress made a comment on the floor–forget who)
and yes, I called Senator Dodd’s office this morning to thank him for so eloquently doing the right thing.
also called Boxer and DiFi to civilly remind them that that is how a Patriot acts
BTW the Senate confirmed the FEC nominees:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..e-FEC.html
I was wondering too…have been thinking of her. But sadly, hospice is for very short-term situations (my cousin was in hospice care) and it is very likely she has left us. We’ll keep her memory in our hearts, but I suspect no relatives would think to let a blog know.
We need to get Dodd on MSM in order for other than the CSPAN and progressive blog ‘choir’ can hear him. Can’t he and Feingold and the other supporters call a press conference, or pull what the Got Ours, Pissoff crowd like to call a stunt? If they ask viewers to pummel Reid and a few other key senators with calls, faxes and emails, do you think the public would respond? Somehow we need to get the mass of undereducated citizens educated and involved. Fast!
Well said, Madison and wigwam.
Republicans think we are cowards. Are we cowards? As your Republican friends if they think they are cowards…
Obama is a fucking liar. There was no “compromise.” The Republicans and the White House got everything they’ve been asking for. Glenzilla has amply and repeatedly documented this fact this past week.
I’m acquainted with these slights, but still there are cases where you supposed to say democrat rather than democratic.
Never, never, never take any option off the table. Pelosi not fit to be commander-in-chief….maybe that’s why she took impeachment off the table. She knew she’d be unfit to serve.
O/T: via LA Times
bastards…mother nature is not going to take much more of dicking the planet around
What about protests at Obama headquarters all over the country? Sit ins? Signs? If we got the press involved, would he wake up and take notice??
yep.
that was one of my questions to the campaign volunteer: “do you think this bill is a compromise?”
there is:
democrat : refers to someone affiliation to the party (he is a democrat)
democratic: is the proper name of the party (the Democratic Party)
And the Supreme Court in a 5-3 decision cut punitive damages for the Exxon Valdez disaster down to $500 million from $2.5 billion.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..ref=slogin
It also decided 5-4 that capital punishment for child rape is cruel and unusual punishment.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..pe.html?hp
Did you read James Hanson’s interview, or hear him on Diane Rehm? He is to the point of bringing crimes against humanity charges against Big Oil execs….
I call these clowns “Repu’ublicists.” My insinuative epithet alluding to their philosophically kindred Ba’athists. That’s also why I refer to Bu’ush and McBu’ush the way I do.
I am a Democrat. But the party is the Democratic party. I vote democratic. Any time the reference is to the Democrat party, it is a deliberate slur.
Good morning all,
I heard recently that Obama said, “I don’t do cowering.”
That is good.
There has been far too much cowering going on amongst the d’s.
Now, how about ‘cowarding’?
It is possible that Obama is NOT really serious about ‘change’ we can actually see and feel.
However, We are!
Especially we ‘aging agitators’.
Obama and every other politician would do well to remember that ‘reality’ …
Our patience has been sorely tried.
POLITICAL WARNING to ‘POLITICIANS’: Do not … repeat … DO NOT ‘believe’, for even an instant, that there will NOT be very serious consequence for those who play the ‘Same Old, Same Old …’
Obama, the ball is in YOUR court, you are said to be a ‘team’ player who is willing to share the ball, that’s good, but as captain of the team, you have to demonstrate that you know what to do with that ball …
always a possibility but I’m not foolish enough to say i withdraw my support from his campaign….McCain is not an alternative folks….keep that in mind (it has tempered but not diluted my disappointment/anger)
Is Chicago ‘68 convention a-brewin’, anew?
QuakerGirl rose is about to bloom second flower. FWIW
that’s a great idea. if the bill does get delayed until after july 4th, the holiday weekend would be a great time to do this. and don’t forget to bring flyers explaining what you are doing and why.
I read this speech this morning before leaving for work.
I was wondering what would happen if we enlarged a bit on his point about ignoring laws that are inconvenient or that we don’t like. Ask the senators what would happen if we-the-people did the same thing and stopped paying taxes – or credit card bills – because we don’t feel like following those laws.
I bet that would get their attention. Then hit them with the question:
how is that different from what the WH has been doing?
I haven’t read the article or heard the interview. I will have to check it out (thanks for the heads up)
Exxon probably spent more than that in legal fees fighting the case
b*stards
The punitive was originally five billion, so it’s now been decimated (reduced to 10%).
GOOD Morning Redd Sunshine!
1. Himself woke up with a headache, and we forgot to take out the garbage – for the 2nd week in a row. (excuse: we’ve painted a whole lotta walls, and things are lookin’ purty here, if you ignore all the piled-up stuff for Goodwill et al). Pretty much looked like a normal morning, as I glared quickly at the silent tv and marched past.
Little did I know!?!
2. After weeding a bit & picking up the newspaper – nope, nothin’ there, ‘cept s’more poor souls were killed in the EyeRack occupation, dammit.
3. F-i-n-a-l-l-y get around to the Lake and, WHOOOOOOOT!?!
I’m helplessly, hopelessly in love with Lake dwellers and Senator Dodd all over again!
He felt our strength at his back, didn’t he!?!
You better believe I’ll write him [another] happy-gram.
Hey, all you nay-sayers who want to dump ALL the politicians.
Your assignment today is to read and reread Dodd’s speech.
Dodd’s what I mean by a “Keeper”.
Good on ya’ Senator Dodd, Christy, Jane, and everyone.
Now, I assume we keep the pressure on?
I’m thinking a few hundred letters to the editor wouldn’t hurt either. The print news is still snoozing through this fight. That won’t do. ;->
very clever. I may have to cop that (of course giving credit where it is due)
Perhaps the distinction between “compromise” and “capitulate” is overly subtle for the minds of Democratic leaders.
Hope you take a pic and let the rest of us have a peek *g*
Good Morning Christy,
I am more than willing to compromise any rights I have that haven’t been paid for with the blood of our forefathers, other than those skip it.
different people are going to have different responses to this betrayal. i beg you that we do not condemn anyone for their thoughtful response.
let’s strive for unity of purpose while acknowledging that we will never have unity of tactics unless we resort to a top down authoritarian directive.
I wouldn’t disagree with the usages suggested. I thought I’d intimated as much, but there it is.
Uncle Jalal(What he told Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to call him) is on my t.v. and is in full fluffer mode.
-G
Monica Novotny just call him Al Talibani(sort of like Al Roker) instead of Jalal.
Iraqi president Talabani(sp?) speaking in WH – says ‘the Iraqi people consider president Bush to be a friend of Iraq, and the *liberator* of Iraq”.
Sounds like Iraq, just like the U.s., has a president who doesn’t get out much.
I have not condemed anyone. I appreciate and understand the responses (I’m also free to express mine, no?)
Good idea..I don’t have a place to post it though..maybe I’ll figure out a way….it’s still a bud right now (grows kind of slow in this 97 degree heat).
Lakoff has a new book out. Book Salon to come???? *hint, hint*
good on ya’!
Right. He just supports capitulations for shits and giggles, now out of fear.
whew, that is warm. You can always open a free account at photobucket. It’s what I did to post pics of weebits
I liked that, too. We’ve all heard them called ‘RepubliCindyMcCains’, but they were positively Republicums when the Dems caved on FISA this time.
hugh–did you see itwasn’tme’s comment at 28 to add to your list?
Yes, they are also not so good on the distinction between defending the Constitution and trashing it.
Talabani is a Kurd. Go figure!
so a poster downstairs says the office of obaman stated he is going to support this bill
this is most disturbing, if we expected a sucessful filibuster obama will undermine it
I don’t know how much I can tell you the level of betrayal I am feeling for this democrat
and he is student of liarman
I am as distressed as I could be supporting this man
aaawwww, how cute! The WH putting on a puppet show!
i know you haven’t. and of course.
please forgive me for being a little concerned / worried about the possibility of resumption of the primary fights and indulging in a bit of preemptive begging for tolerance.
Just in case you’re not familiar with Bob Barr, as we in Georgia are, here’s his Wiki entry, where you will find the following:
I wish you joy with him. I’d trust him about as far as I could throw a piano.
Oh god — no more primary pie fighting. Please. I’m too exhausted this week to deal with a resumption of that! (Shorter me: in-laws are still in the hospital, please be gentle with each other for my sanity’s sake. Thanks.)
I understand the concern/worry but I’m only fighting against republicans not fellow dems.
I will make a note and may google later. If the investigation has been closed I may have insufficient information to come up with an entry.
I abhor the word “homeland”… what’s the matter with “nation”?
((perris))
Yes, Bravo to Senator Dodd. Going to call his office right now, then Leahy again.
victoria at 89–kirk did a post on it
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06…..nd-nature/
and adie–see my comment at 32-bill to be signed soon in ohio…..hope more people than buckeyes call about it, it’s gonna affect them too when it comes to their state soon…..need to nip it in the bud.
It doesn’t have the same jackboot resonance.
Thank You for that, selise.
Perspective is important.
So is NOT going so over-the-top frenzied that we turn off our “targets” completely. If that happens and we trigger a counter-intuitive negative reaction, what have we accomplished.
People may not like to hear it, but pols, huge egos & all, are hoomin’ beings who respond better to tact than to a baseball bat. Tis a known fact of life.
Yell at me if you like, anyone, but I’m after results, not just indulging in a rip-snorting purge of a rant for my own satisfaction and pleasure.
It’s all very Hegelian.
Exactly.
Every time I hear it I cringe.
And I think about my dad who was a Marine in WW II fighting against just such tyranny. He hasn’t been resting in peace these last seven-plus years.
Your Attituuude haz been noticed, Herr Citizen. Papez, pleeze?
– so it’s now been decimated (reduced to 10%). –
It’s been “decimated” 21 times (0.9 ** 21 = 0.11)
See Decimation (Roman army) – WikiPedia
agreed
You and your family are in my thoughts Christy.
Thank you for bringing this speech to our attention. I needed to read it.
Over the next days/weeks, I hope the voice of Dodd’s father is in his head and heart guiding him. Dodd, do what your dad would do…
Thanks.
Precisely.
warm-and-fuzzy slipper for the ugly fascist foot.
Hell the german version of the word,’heimat’ was first used during the reign of the third reich. I tell you history just repeats itself
Yesterday on the Len Rubenstein post, Len answered a question from pmorian thusly: “I think the institutional resistance to holding people accountable for war crimes is enormous – it is such a serious action, and I think there is fear too, that a lot of people know too many things, signed off on too many things, and it could spiral. And of course the biggest resistance comes from those who, on the one hand, have the greatest power and may also be the most culpable.”
I think that about sums up EVERYTHING these days.
It is not blackmail, the political class protect their own.
American politicians have concluded, for the most part, that they are better aligned with money, guns and power than with ‘the people’ and the Constitution …
A nation is the people. The homeland is the dirt they stand on. From this you can figure out which is more important to the Republicans.
Oh good. I didn’t know it was free! Thanks.
What an interesting observation. I’m close to certain no one in my constellation would think of that either. Amazing, in a way, given what a significant community this has become.
i guess what i’m asking is that we don’t make the dividing line between even Rs and Ds – that is what glenn is working on, a cross party constituency:
not everyone here is allied primarily with the dems. and i think that ought to be ok – again, there is a difference about unity of purpose (constitutional protections, the rule of law, the climate crisis, the energy crises, the economic crisis, …) and unity of tactics – which is impossible in a free and progressive community. the tactics, and even party affiliation of a grassroots progressive ecology will vary widely.
Hi wobblybits, but my name’s not Matt.
The people who voted for Nader made it much easier for the Repubs to steal the election and give us 8 years of Bush. I wish that I could tell each and every one of them exactly what I think of their little snit fit. Let’s not do that again – not for me or for you but for your country.
Marcy and I have been brainstorming an idea that I think you are gonna love. Will post on it in a little bit…
hehehehehe
That’s fine but for me it is still a struggle against what the republicans have heaped on this country for years. I’m thankful for the work Glen is doing but it doesn’t temper my fire to keep them out of office when possible so that there is a better chance that progressive issues are dealt with.
fear not, dear Redd.
((((Christy and Family))))
Amen to that, sister!!! Christy?
that took me a bit to catch the joke (i’m a bit slow this morning) *g*
dmac at 130: off now to read it. KTHXBAI!
just so you know – that’s the debate i’m having with myself. and if you want to succeed in convincing me to make a protest vote in november, the lack of tolerance for different tactics will help move me in that direction.
I did and am quite proud of voting for who I thought had the country’s best interest at heart, uncorruptable in my opinion.
The Supreme Courtiers: obedient to their corporate lords. OK with punitive execution — but gracious goodness me, let us not trouble our corporate gentry with punitive damages that could actually punish.
We’re a democracy, after all: for the right people.
Old news (well, day-old), but I haven’t read here about Bush’s Phillipine wacko-mouthed comments yesterday. Either he is on something or off something. But clearly, he is daisy short of a bouquet.
That is my ultimate concern. This country has been so internally/structurally wrecked that we won’t survive under another republican president. (at least that is my humble opinion) So I fight for the issues that are important to the progressive community but I also keep in mind that we stand a better chance of getting those issues addressed under a dem than a republican (once gain, my wee lil opinion)
I also think that there is this feeling that ‘war crimes’ is something someone from some OTHER place does – even if intellectually they know that it’s war crimes, they really cringe at labeling Americans with that. Slobedon Milosevich – that’s a whole different story, right?
heh
I have never equated Nader with uncorruptable but I can’t fault your vote. Unfortunately, it just didn’t help in the end
i know, and i’m not asking you to change that. just that you will give the same space to others here who decide on different a different tactic.
tolerance all around for all opinions (even those we disagree with)
Selise. I am doing that but i am allowed to do the same, correct? Give me some space too
Ooo you’ve got me QUITE curious!!!
Well, the passage of immunity, along with our total conduct wrt Iraq, will negate any roll the US has played internationally in terms of human rights, evidently a foundational principal pushing our democracy to be better for We the People, but never perfect in praxis…but at least “it” was there trying to be…and trying to encourage other democracies…
It use to be a negotiating tact, especially with China.
I can hear the global chinking of stemware as FISA passes…
We’ve lost all international negotiating positions with one president…
Christy, I think all the changes at FDL are really interesting. But I have to tell you, when you are here things feel different. Better. Best. And I know you can’t possibly keep up that pace. Just had to say this. (closes big mouth)
Ummm: Electoral College?
Here in CA, I was free to vote for Nader knowing the state would still go against the R’s.
Many other activists across the country in safe Dem states accurately made the same calculation.
Dem supporters who hope to win greens and disaffected Dems may wish to recall the electoral college rather than castigate those who voted for Nader in the full knowledge their state’s electoral college votes would go Dem.
Obviously, FL was not a state certain to go Dem. Beats the hell out of me why anyone there voted Nader in 2000.
I think that this is the most important election this country has ever had and certainly in my lifetime. We are in danger of losing everything. Not to sound overly dramatic but the Founding Fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. They would have lost everything including being sent back to England to be hanged. Washington and his soldiers fought, died and nearly froze to death at Valley Forge. We have a duty to our COUNTRY.
omg you wouldn’t. please just stay home and use your own dartboard.
pictures of East Coast Firepups at eCahn’s BBQ – click on my facebook f
from the department of good news/badnews:
Republican Representative Chris Cannon (Utah) has been defeated in his primary. (good news)
Unfortunately, the guy who beat him sounds like he’s even more odious than Cannon, and a total nazi (bad news).
http://www.rawstory.com/news/m…..52008.html
oh well.
ok. i’ll back off for now, so long as no one here equates voting for obama with duty to country or some such thing. (not saying you would ever do any such thing).
Since Obama was too busy to bother with his job yesterday, I am printing out Dodd’s speech and mailing it to him.
I will send him an email right now with the more pertinent parts.
Hurry, hurry, hurry!!!
The Democratic Party has a fundamental problem in that its officeholders repeatedly undercut and sellout the core values of its constituents. If they don’t support us, why should we support them?
Because McCain might get elected? Well, the fact of the matter is that when the Republicans were in the majority they were unable to gut FISA. That’s happening under a Democratic majority. The MCA? Yes, that passed before the 2006 elections but it only did because Harry Reid worked hand in glove with the Republicans to make sure it did. Supreme Court nominees? The Roberts and Alito nominations could have been filibustered even when the Democrats were in the minority. But they caved. Even if there were a McCain Administration, the Senate would still be strongly Democratic and could reject his SCOTUS nominations. What does it say of our opinion of the Democratic Party that we just assume that the weasels in the Senate would vote to confirm his choices?
Just in the abstract, though, what if someone did equate that? They would have the right to do so, yes?
(And I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, since I think everyone individually has to make up their own minds as to what is important to them — for me, it’s SCOTUS and the federal courts above pretty much everything else in terms of factors this term…but that’s me. Candidates ought to win votes, not expect them, in my book, too.)
twain, there are people out there who freely voted for him because they actually thought he was a better candidate…had nothing to do with a ’snit’……..really. i know a few.
the ones that seem to be snitty about it isn’t them. just like now, they voted for someone who spoke out about issues that concerned them, gore didn’t……just as obama isn’t speaking out now, too…..so, direct the snittiness where it belongs-toward weak politicians who play both sides to win the middle, and lose.
don’t blame the messengers, blame the message.
NO
LET’S ALL DO THIS!!!
Ah yes, the myth of American ‘Excetionalism’.
We’ve lots of such myths; dare we ask if these myths actually serve our best interests?
Perhaps they serve ‘other’ interests?
Well, such a discussion would take time … and it would prolly be BORING.
Besides, self-reflection is for losers, according to ‘Murkan Mythology …
A Myth for every Moment.
nomolos@22:
you said: “The NSA vacuuming is based on a number of trigger words/phrases. I think it is time for all communications to include all, or at least some, of those trigger words which, hopefully will screw up their system. Words like bomb, terrorist and muslim. It is time for citizen action to screw their system”
Wonder if a group of citizens organized a group action like that and involved the local media in the plan. They could write some scary shit using all the hot button words. When Halliburton came for them they could pull the media out of their hats and then prove that they had been illegally wiretapped……….hmmm…..FISA will have been changed, so Bush can say he told the telecom that it was legal, plus he could name you an enemy combatant so you wouldn’t be allowed to call the media to testify in your defense. Hell, you couldn’t call anyone because you would have already been rendered or sent to Gitmo…..
With this latest revelation of Obama caving on FISA, the distinction between the two parties has become more blurred. No one who truly values this country and the Constitution could in good conscience vote for this law.
The 1972 law was put in place because of the abuses of the Nixon Administration whom used it for his own political agenda.
Since we don’t know what or who was under surveillance, we don’t know what information was gained and if the Bush Administration used it for political purposes. We will never know this until it’s brought out into the light by court cases.
Granting immunity in effect quashes that. And as has already been posted, it opens the door to other Constitutional abuses.
Obama should be expected to refute Dodd. Will it happen? Monkeys fly out of butt, first?
The case where the U.S. fails to prosecute its war criminals will get very ugly. The Europeans remember with respect U.S. righteousness after WWII, but if we don’t hold ourselves to the same standards, we will be percieved as arrogant hypocrites.
And, it’s not only the Europeans who believe in the doctrine of “universal jurisdiction.” The Israelis have practiced it, notably in the case of Eichman, with our approval. Also Muslim nations have the same rights as everyone else to practice universal jurisdiction, try people in absentia, issue dead-or-alive rewards (which they call fatwas).
The future will get ugly in ways never anticipated by the Villagers, if they fail to prosecute their own.
Ich bin ein Amerikaner
howdy kathryn!
only people who have joined facebook can see your pics. any chance of posting them somewhere else too? i think i may have an email from you on this?
With all respect Selise, if someone says it, it is just their opinion and we can disagree or agree with it. We give space for folks to express their views and opinions (no matter how brillant or boneheaded they may be).
It would be great to fax the life out of this speech to Obama and all those who were so done with Former AG Gonzo…to remind them they are backing a program signed off on by an AG who could give any legal backing to the program, which was required of him.
I would also hard copy mail it with a small note attached to personalize the snail mail.
yep he was in my neck of the woods and I really like your idea (pretty freaking brillant). Hope you don’t mind if I doo the same.
yes. thanks for headsup.
Yes
Cool!
those don’t taste as good as the Berliners (jelly doughnuts) *g*
my 178 was to twain at 148–nader
i can’t do the linky to text thing……
left out a a few letters there…
anyone have a link to Dodd’s speech?
What email address do you use to contact Obama? I want to let them know that the small amount of $$$ I was planning on giving him this month will now go to Dodd to help him retire his debt.
The American Junta see themselves as the world’s law enforcer. Everyone else views them as schmucks and suckers who will do the heavy lifting in behalf of transnational combines and opportunistic/out-of-favor political power cadres.
Maybe my feelings are caused by the fact that I grew up during WW2 and am quite a bit older than most here. With me it is get the best politicians you can who you think will at least do some of what you want. Perfection is not possible in people or in politics. We all make compromises but then do the best we can. McC scares me. He had no integrity, is somewhat wonky in the head and I think will simply bomb whoever might irritate him that day.
Appreciate your perspective. I can’t tolerate the view that Obama is our Democratic savior.
yeah, this waiting game is lovely, eh?
Speech here (written copy):
http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/4476
The first order of business in restoring democracy is to purge the Democratic party of its fascists, corporatists, and imperialists. The conservatives never got anywhere until the purged the Republican party of everybody that had a social conscience. We must purge the Democratic party of everyone that lacks social conscience. And, yes, it is better to elect a Republican than a Blue Dog, far, far better, even if it means losing majority status in congress.
Printer friendly version:
http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/4476/print
I voted for Dodd in the primary. He didn’t disappoint. I think I will email Obama that Dodd is Change I Can Believe In.
thanks I’m all over this idea. First, I’m going to email some folks with this wonderful idea and see if this can start an avalanche
Dodd speech submission:
Obama for America
P.O. Box 8102
Chicago, IL 60680
Email form
* bites tongue *
he had dropped out before my state was up to vote (so had Kucinich)
uh oh
Obama has documentably flip-flopped on warrantless wiretaps and has renegged on his promise to support the filibustering of telco immunity.
thanks barbara. I will add that to my email to friends.
hmm think I’ll do electronic and snail mail
When Dodd quit the primary his supporter database went to Obama.
Maybe Dodd could use that again to remind Obama where some support came from.
Dodd and Kucinich (in either order) would have been my dream ticket. With Edwards for AG and Obama as their first SCOTUS appointment.
Please do! Lets make dang sure he has read this speech!
Again, Yes.
I’m very agreeable, today.
And, well-said alank!
In the past I have posted stats on the effect of snail mail and faxes to Congressional offices.
It’s well worth anyone’s time to do…
By the way…I am not for change, I am for consistent efforts to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Show me a candidate that promises to uphold the rule of law and they have my vote. No changing, just upholding.
A vote for immunity is a voting for changing the Constitution. Change that I do not support.
only my opinion – i don’t mind at all when someone says what they think their duty is. the difference is when people try to tell me what my duty is – with the implication that if i come to a different conclusion about what i should do i am somehow betraying my country. imo, that’s taking a page from the rove playbook – if you don’t support bush’s war you are supporting the terrorists. dissent is not patriotic, etc….
was hoping to suggest a way that might avoid a repeat of the clinton/obama flame wars. i know i wasn’t the only one who really, really hated that.
Is there a youTube version? The flash version on Dodd’s site doesn’t seem to load for me.
Maybe Axelrod is the go to person to put pressure on Obama….?
From RawStory:
“Rove slams NY Times for ‘outing’ CIA agent: Developing…“
http://www.rawstory.com/
So maybe Rove is saying that Time Magazine was the proper venue for outing Mrs. Wilson?
Better watch out, alank. You will henceforth be known as al Ank on Bush’s Enemies List. :-p
ok then.
Clink, clink, clink…the sound of Rove in leg shackles as he approaches his chair at his hearing in Congress after being arrested for inherent contempt.
Jeebus, we really do live in Mirrorworld. I get brain whiplash just thinking about Rove.
I’ve pasted this here before but it still a great speech and a useful introduction for getting people to think beyond the corporate media frame of privacy.
http://blog.privcom.gc.ca/inde…..goldmines/
Selise, Huff Post this morning has a speech by McC who says that WW3 would justify a draft and he said in 2006 that we were in the beginning of WW3. We have to stop that by any means necessary. I have an 18 year old grandson and many of you have children and grandchildren who are draft age. What say you?
I can get with that. I’m not asking for perfection in man (it does not exist) but i am asking that a promise be kept. That is a fundamental base of his platform (doing things differently). Well politicians back peddle, double speak and break their word as a rule. I expect different from a candidate of change and i will do whatever I can to remind him of that.
More likely, Piss, Piss, Piss, the sound of Nancy Pelosi wetting her drawers in fear of sending out the Sgt at Arms….
wouldn’t hurt to email him as well. Anyone else you can think of that might benefit from our attention?
Since it is the dismantling of the 4th amendment…who is not to say that Roe vs Wade(which was based on the 4th amendment) will not also be dismantled
I’m thinking of making a bumper sticker that says: ‘John McCain, you can’t have my son, either.’
You know at CafePress you can make your own bumper stickers and shirts and stuff….. I’d like to see a nation-full of shirts and stickers that play off of that great ‘Alex’ ad by MoveOn.
that i have no reason to think that you can see into the future any better than i can and that your certainty about what the future holds scares me. do you have an argument that includes the expected D congressional wins?
YOUBETCHA!
((((((Wobblybits))))))
[seems to me we’re all straying awfully close to hair-splitting time, no?]
big breath, all. THIS is not our trouble. I for one see no recipe for pie fight in the making. I think we’re all just rattled, justifiably, by the weird-acting pol. & MSM world.
think back to 2000. gee. wonder why we’re all just a tad frayed around the edges. looks like a bunch-a normal nice-people to me. we don’t have to serve tea and crumpets on the best china every hour of every day. ymmv
I’d like to see a nation-full of people wearing shirts and driving cars/bikes with stickers that play off of that great ‘Alex’ ad by MoveOn, using our own children’s and grandchildren’s names in place of Alex.
I presume everyone here knows, but in an abundance of overly cautious tip-toeing into the mostly-forward marching on:
it reputedly takes weeks for regular snailmail to be received. e- and fax would be by far the more immediate fast-track.
but you knew that, uh huh. got it. okay. over & out.
I’m not sure what your question is but since the Congress has meant nothing to Bush I have to think it will mean even less to McC. If we think Bush is a dictator, McC will be a hundred times worse. He is a terrifying man. I have no crystal ball but I’m not stupid either and a Democratic Congress will not be able to stop him since he will have “signing statements” to work his magic. I am not angry about this issue. I just love my country and the future is uncertain, at best. We have to do what we can.
Let’s go for a ‘three-fer’ wobbly …
How’s about, ‘Courage, Tolerance and Understanding’?
Mayhap we could all ‘tolerate’ them apples?
Dodd:
TIA lives on, ‘eh? I never doubted that for a second.
right on
they haven’t tried to constrain him. on the contrary they have been complicit in all of his worst excesses.
the next congress should have more democrats – a lot more. congress could, if it wanted to, impose constraints. maybe that means that most important thing is to work to get the dems in congress to act in ways that are more responsible (keeping impeachment on the table, for example)?
That ad is absolutely incredible. Very powerful.
fwiw, MoveOn helped pay for it, but it’s also sponsored by
a branch of AFL-CIO. Public Employees.
http://thepage.time.com/2008/0…..new-tv-ad/
I’ve been trying to figure out what influenced Obama to change positions on FISA issues. Is he afraid of winning and then having difficulties with agency officers and corporate executives he has displeased? (If so, why hasn’t he repudiated his earlier positions instead of knocking retroactive immunity while embracing the package it is part of?) Is he worried about being accused of undervaluing or disrespecting those who are purportedly sparing no effort to protect the country, because such accusations could cost him votes?
My disgust for the Dems in Congress is bottomless. Cowards all. It appears, however, that Obama, right now, is leading McC by 12 to 15 points around the country. He also apparently has coattails. I think that if he is that popular he will bring some of our good candidates along with him. Politics is ugly and mean and far from pleasant at times and you just do all you can.
Well said.
linkie no workie?
i agree with doing all we can. i disagree (i think) with what you think should be done.
I don’t do facebook either
feingold up on the senate floor – cspan2
The McBu’ush hole card:
I’m starting to think that Iran will in fact be attacked prior to our Presidential election day. Such will either propel McBu’ush into office or thoroughly hog-tie Obama should he still win.
feingold is on fire – taking it to the dems for capitulating.
Constitutional-law professor Obama has flip-flopped on the Bill of Rights and the Rule of Law, but that okay — he flip-flopped in a Republican direction.
In a region far, far away there are two nations, A and B.
Nation A refuses to publish its borders, has repeatedly attacked and invaded its neighbors, and for decades has occupied neighboring territory, on which it is building colonies.
When nation A attacked a neighbor two years ago, it was repulsed by locals using weapons provided by nation B.
Nation B has not threatened to attack nation A, but they have expressed wishes for a regime change in nation A.
Nation A is a known nuclear proliferator and the only nation in the region with nuclear arms.
Nation A has attacked two nations in the region to destroy facilities that might have been useful in developing nuclear weapons
Nation A has repeatedly threatened to attack nation B to prevent it from developing nuclear arms of its own.
Earlier this month, nation A carried out exercises demonstrating its capacity to launch a strike against nation B.
The United States has sent naval forces in the region. Should they:
[ ] protect nation A from nation B?
[ ] protect nation B from nation A?
[ ] attack nation A?
[ ] attack nation B?
Anyone who has gotten far in politics is likely to be compromised and harboring skeletons in their numerous closets.
The dems as a whole are hardly the vox populi as much as corporate mymes as the see that money and power are what counts in America and you play ball with THEM or don’t play ball. Sell outs.
I have e-mailed Obama about 8 times in the last few days. Don’t think I’m not angry with him – I am furious and disappointed but there’s one main thing I can say about him – HE IS NOT MCCAIN. That’s my point. My crystal ball won’t tell me what kind of president he will be maybe another Kennedy, or FDR or Millard Fillmore – but he isn’t a Repub and he isn’t McC. That’s the bottom line for me.
I think Bush will do an attack of Iran before he leaves. The question is what will Iran do after that? And Russia and others in the region?
i’m not saying you should do anything different than what you’ve decided.
my push back is when you tell me what i my duty is.
According to some reports, war games have shown that the Fifth Fleet in the Pursian Gulf are sitting ducks for Iran’s extensive arsenal of antiship cruise missles. I am in no position to judge that, but the Naval officers among the upper brass, notably Mullen and Fallon, have been the most adamant opponents of a strike against Iran.
Someone should send this speech to Nancy. Maybe it would remind her.
Reports also say that the PNAC crowd are quite willing to sacrifice the fleet for the “greater good.”
So, the Chairman of our Joint Chiefs has been summoned to Tel Aviv. Swell. Who wags whom in this interaction?
Why should the United States ensure the ill-gotten military advantage of a nuclear proliferator?
i don’t think attacking Iran will help McCain but a terrorist attack here or the reappearance of Osama might do the trick (no not Osama because the prez has even said he doesn’t care about Osama)
You must do what you think is best. I only want to remind people that we will all live with the consequences whichever way this goes. And, by the way, I really do love a good political discussion and I suspect that you and I would have a great time together face to face. I don’t want people to always agree with me and you don’t.
It’s not at all okay. He should be called out for it (loud) but I ain’t doing no protest vote come November
Agreed!
Attacking Iran may not help McBu’ush directly, but their retaliation may. And, as I said, even were Obama to win, he’d inherit a major hog-tie of a new mess.
BTW, let me add that I would vote against any blue dog for congress. And, I’d vote against Pelosi and Hoyer. We be better off with Republicans in those seats. It’s time for a purge.
*sigh* your right. They have truly earned their own personal ring of hell for this. Blood on their hands (from all over the world)
me too.
and i do take our current situation very, very seriously. which is why i’m kicking the can on making any decisions right now. i know myself well enough to know that the kind of anger i’m feeling right now does not lead to clear thinking, let alone decision making.
but if our support can always be counted upon, no matter what the D candidate does – then we have no accountability. is there nothing that obama could do to lose your support?
Sadly, I see this as a no-lose for the PNAC crowd. Attacking Iran (either directly or via the Israeli proxy we would then “have to” assist) either helps propel McBu’ush into the White House, or boxes a President Obama in for years with a newly raging fiasco of majorly heightened proportions.
The situation is definitely serious. I have 4 children and 4 grandchildren. I would so much like to leave a better world for them and it’s getting harder all the time. I spend a lot of time talking with my 13 year old granddaughter about our country and politics trying to get her ready to carry the load. I’m afraid that it will be a heavy one.
Apropos nothing …
Let us just suppose the boy-king does attack Iran.
At that point, the ‘players’ are not simply McCaint and Obama …
What might Russia, for example, consider doing?
Rumors, and they are only that, suggest Russia has ‘warned’ Dear Leader, through certain ‘back-channels’, NOT to ‘do’ the dirty …
Should we take Russia’s ’suggestion’ seriously?
Oh, right, I forgot, ‘things’ like ‘that’ only happen ‘over there’ and could not possibly occur here.
What if they held the war and nobody came?
Would not Russia benefit from our further military and moral evisceration?
There is no perfect candidate (no man is perfect). He has earned my support on other issues and while i am disappointed with his position on this issue, i am more than pleased with his position on other issues. Accountability he has (i still call, and write letters, etc.) but withholding my vote for one issue is not my idea or understanding of accountability. In the end, it is about SCOTUS and the overall health of this country (no more blood on our hands)
I think we will have crossed the line with every country in the world – not just Russia. There could very well be some serious consequences for us. Our trade could be crippled and nations could simply refuse to deal with us. We would deserve it.
Dodd has definitely found his voice.
But what the hell happened to Feingold??
Did Reid and Schumer and Lieberman so screw him over last year he just doesn’t have the same passion anymore?
It’s more likely he sees the Rockefeller,reid and Schumer, Feinstein, Pryor, Mendoza and Salazar hard line Democrats as blocks to any possibilty of progress.
Wexler in the House has the same problem with the Hoyer Harmon -Pelosi coalition.
What a wasted sham ‘06 has turned into.
I can see what your saying but I’m always hoping that cooler heads (europe, the un) will step in and temper the rhetoric. From what i hear, our army would collapse under this as we don’t have enough personnel to even deal with Iraq and Afghanistan. The focus needs to be placed back on Afghanistan
what positions are those?
Warmonger Bolton says either we or Israel is gonna hit Iran after election and prior to inauguration day. He says that the Arab world will privately applaud the action (more of that “we’ll be greeted as liberators” schtick that worked so well last time).
Reminder – I said the other day that Iraq has a population of 28 million – Iran has 65 million. That should be remembered. It certainly would not be the
“piece of cake” that Cheney liked so much.
Germany and Japan were rebuilt well. Vote McCain!
healthcare
green energy (though I would like less focus on coal and more on renewable energy)
public education
list goes on
I fail to see how Israel will think this will help them. We can’t help because our military is broken.
Bu’ush is claiming that he “liberated 50 million people from the clutches of tyranny.” He wants to double down.
It might be that draft I spoke of earlier.
This is shaping up to be a tight race. For those that want to cast a protest vote, do so (it is your vote to do with it as you like)
But I don’t want to even imagine a presidency under McCain.
egads. hell no, they can’t have my nephews or cousins.
Rationality doesn’t count with these peeps.
I get in more trouble with that old rational thought thing
Certainly Russia would benefit …
My concern is that ‘they’ might feel compelled to do ’something’ …
You know how ‘leaders’ in countries where ‘money is all-that-matters’ behave, doncha?
Besides, ‘Murkah being ‘numero uno’ must still rankle and the lust for empuh seems an historically powerful ‘draw’. And, no doubt, their military, having suffered some uh, ’setbacks’ in recent decades must wish to flex their muscles.
On the other foot, they might, as you appear to suggest, simply be quite pleased to stand happily in the wings while we display our absolute mindlessness and thereby align most of the rest of the world agin us.
I always assume that ‘great’ powers always need to prove that their’s are bigger.
Certainly that is what our Great Homeland, thanks to the Strausian waltzers, is all about, in foreign affairs, in domestic affairs and in interplanetary affairs as well …
Wonder what will happen if we ever meet some real actual ‘aliens’ …
Of course, if ‘they’ have a big book entitled, “To Serve Man”, some of ‘us’ will realize what zone we have entered …
They can be expected to provide weapons, as we did in Afghanistan in the early 80s. They have too much to lose, however, if they take a combat role.
Is “American journalism” an oxymoron? http://www.truthdig.com/report….._of_power/
I hope and suspect wigwam, that you are correct, yet our nation seems quite unable to grasp all that WE are losing …
Thus, in one swell foop, we have rendered ourselves pariahs and shown beyond all question or doubt that other nations, apparently, are capable of imagining consequence and thereby giving the appearance of possessing at least a meager store of principles, while we actively continue to demonstrate that we have none.
At some point, however, the rest of the world will have had enough of our meddling and destructive arrogance. We are no longer a bastion of hope and decency, but have become a terror and a threat to conscience and the possibility of peace.
Billions for war, yet not a penny for peace.
I think it quite obvious where our ‘values’ lie …
The rest of the Western Civilization knows their own history and they look to the American dream as much as we do, sometimes more, for the hope of a more ideal world. Nobody wants to tear us down just now when there’s still plenty of time for us to get back up and continue the race. Everybody is hopeful and wants our “leadership” in the sense that they hope for a future for themselves that is as wonderful as that which we strive for every day.
It was said in the early 1980s that our pride was hurt by the Iranian Hostages event. That may have been true, but it was ‘them’ who hurt us. Our recent problems have been self-inflicted and that’s not as common. We can’t blame ‘them’ for our current bad behavior. But, the American people are hopeful and idealistic — we want to live the dream — and we’ll do our best to get back on track as soon as possible.
On the other hand, the American people aren’t particularly vindictive and mean, so we can’t really expect a great deal of ‘looking back’ and ‘punishments for the guilty’. In this instance I think the Bushies are counting on that and it isn’t helpful.
There will be a time for repairing damage and then there will be a time where we consider our next big step forward. Are Americans going to say they’re perfectly comfortable with “the good life on Easy Street” or will they see the continued growing wealth disparity as problematic? It reminds me of the old question of what kind of gift you get for someone who has everything: with all we’ve got, just what do the American people want America to be like in 25, 50 or 100 years?
I don’t know that Russia is into the cold war struggle sphere of influence rubbish, but if they become a player on the world stage as one of the nations who cooperates as opposed to the US whose approach is to dominate… they will benefit from our coming collapse from yet another war.
We are being screwed by the empire freaks with their military attack dogs.
Er Dodd’s staff needs to fix that linky link. I was poised, pointed and ready to go: click image for video, and then anticlimax. nothing.
Note to Dodd. I suppose if Lieberman is going to sell his soul to Chimpy, and you partner up with him we should get something, right? Well New Haven needs the money than Stamford. Pssst, its desperate, we could use money for the schools and library.
Well that wasn’t hard at all. Dodd’s speech is off to Obama via multiple routes. I emailed a condensed version.
I posted a full version on the campaign blog.
And I have a paper copy going to him via snail mail.