In Japan they call it the Bright Depression. Ever since the 80's bubble burst the Japanese economy has never been able to rev up its engines and roar again. Slow growth or small contractions have been the rule. It hasn't been awful. It hasn't actually been a classic depression. But, somehow, the good times have never come back. Unemployment, never previously a problem, just won't go away. The opportunities, the bursting optimism and the glory days are gone. It's been a long time since anyone wrote a book or article claiming that Japan was the future, but those of us who are old enough remember when everyone was frightened that Japan would eat America's lunch.
What happened in Japan should be of interest to every American, because it's one model for what's been happening to the US, and what will happen to it. For over 5 years Stirling Newberry and I have used it, and it's proved itself over and over again. Japan's collapse, remember, was based on a real-estate bubble. Some details were different and due to the geography of Japan, it was much more concentrated, but the run up in prices was very similiar. At the height of the Japanese real-estate bubble, the value of Tokyo's land was more than the value of all land in the entire rest of the world put together.
Ouch.
When Japan's economy collapsed the reaction of the central bank and government was interesting and in the broad details, very similiar to the US one. First, Japan did not have its banks come clean on all their bad loans. Banks were kept alive by any means possible, with bad loans staying on the books for years. Major banks were not allowed to go bankrupt, even if they were insolvent.
Second, they engaged in a huge bit of Keynesian stimulus, pumping money into infrastructure in an attempt to increase demand, something that is being talked up now in the US. It didn't work for Japan because Japan already had plenty of infrastructure so there was very little economic activity to be enabled by improving infrastructure.
Because Japan never cleared the books, its banks were heavily impaired when it came to lending new funds to businesses and consumers. When you're technically insolvent, there just isn't a lot of money to go around.
The same thing is happening in the US. Bernanke has bailed out the banks and the brokerage houses, essentially declaring that he's nationalizing their losses (when you take paper banks can't sell for 99 cents on the dollar, it isn't "collateral"). Bear Sterns may have gone under, but its debt was not allowed to be unraveled on the open market. Allowing that would have forced other banks and brokerages to value their bad paper at actual market values, and that would probably have pushed them from insolvent to bankrupt.
Bernanke's got his reasons, and they aren't necessarily bad reasons, but the fact remains that the US now has a very impaired financial sector. Credit limits on people with good jobs and credit ratings are being slashed, there is less money to be had for business loans, and banks are having trouble raising new funds, because as Hale Stewart points out, their stock prices are crashing and why would you want to give them money for shares when those shares will be cheaper later?
If the US refuses to cull the flock and let some banks go under, probably by putting them into government receivership, since the government's going to have to bail them out anyway, then it could take a couple decades or more to regain a functioning financial sector. And while a lot of what financial companies did was froth, and counterproductive to the purposes of the actual economy, they also do things that are necessary. If they can't do those things—make those loans, then the US will suffer.
There has also been talk of doing a huge infrastructure build out. The US isn't in the same position as Japan, there's a lot of old infrastructure that needs rebuilding. Nonetheless, the economic gains from traditional "roads and bridges" infrastructure is fairly minimal. Repairs are needed, but most places have enough.
Smart infrastructure build outs are what's needed. That means no toll roads or bridges, since tolls reduce economic activity. It means public transportation, because that reduces the use of oil. It means a real telecom push, which requires less money than it does breaking up the telecom oligopoly. Another telecom revolution wants to happen. It can't because the big telecom companies won't let anyone do anything on their networks if they can't take a share of the money. They need to be forced to allow anyone to buy access to their networks, just as phone companies were forced to allow ISPs and phone resellers to buy back in the 90's. Furthermore, robust wireless networks should bracket all greater metropolitian areas, and that should not be done by the private sector, any more than roads should be owned by the private sector. High speed needs to become high-speed by international standards, rather than by backwards US standards.
Japan had some significant advantages when they went bust. They weren't, for example, broke. They had a trade surplus, they had money put away for a rainy day, and so on. The US, on the other hand, finds itself with a huge trade deficit and a government budget deficit. Japanification may not work in the US. In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't work.
However it is clearly being tried. It was clearly being tried 4 years ago, let alone now. The advantage of Japanification is that the rich get to stay rich, the powerful get to stay powerful and the status quo continues. Sure, the economy sucks and there's no real hope of anything better. But it's not collapse, and if you're rich, it's not a bad society to live in.
Even on its own terms, however, Japanification is not what Bernanke and the US's elites should be trying for. For almost two decades the US has told Japan that it needed to clean up its banks, that it need transparency in loans and so on. As with giving personal advice, it was easy to say when it was someone else.
Now it's the US. America can try and sweep this crisis under the carpet and pretend there isn't a huge overhang of bad loans and worthless securities. If it does so, the best case scenario is that the next twenty years or so will be America's bright depression. Best case.
What's holding the US back are two things. The first is an unwillingness to admit the emperor has no clothes and that many firms are really bankrupt (and that the gravy train for your friends in the private sector needs to be ended). The second is an unwillingness to actually use government power to do anything but bail out private interests. It's one thing to save the bankers and stock brokers from themselves, allowing most of them to stay rich. America's elites understand that sort of action. But what really needs to be done, which is to bring insolvent firms under government stewardship and either wind them down or reinflate them, goes against everything the past thirty years has stood for. It's just not the sort of thing neoliberals and neoconservatives, with their touchingly childlike faith in "free" markets, believe in, understand or can even seriously consider.
So, unless the tidal wave becomes too big, or Bernanke, who has become the man in charge of the US's economy to an extent greater than any of his predecessors, wakes up in a sweat one morning, it's Bright Depression, Ho!
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Wow, that’s brilliant… good post!
Thank you for this, Ian. Wonder how bright our depression is gonna be.
Digg this post
Should be required reading for both presidential candidates. Oh that’s right, one of them doesn’t use computers…
It’s a pity that the best medicine for the current crisis, and the medicine that in some respects seems intuitively obvious, will not be administered because it is ideologically unpalatable. Even under an Obama administration, American culture has been so steeped in free-marketism that
socializingplacing into government receivership failing banks would generate roars of outrage from economic ideologues.Similarly (in my opinion at least,) one possible solution to the oil price crisis could be nationalizing the oil companies, which are presently sucking trillions of dollars out of the U.S. economy and thereby harming it. We could examine whether it would be a good idea to give the wealthy oil barons a modest check and send them packing, but we won’t, because the idea has been relegated to the status ideological illegitimacy without regard for any merit it might have.
Frankly, it would be nice if we could inject some dispassionate pragmatism into our system of governance. Unfortunately we’re culturally a long way from that, too.
Done.
Thanks for the link.
Thank you very much Ian.
Japan is a land of slave labor, high suicide rates, and few babies.
A land of profits and despair.
Lead by nazi crackers.
Sound familiar?
It will be worse than in Japan, because the United States no longer has the safety net nor the ethical and political basis to form one that Japan has and America once had. I am writing this from the Seattle airport, after spending a week visiting my aged mother on the Kitsap Peninsula. It is deeply depressing to see what has happened to my community in the now almost 50 years since I left it to go East to college. No downtowns, just malls; everyone living in cars. About the only time they get together is for church, which I suppose is one reason for the attenance in an area that in my day was areligious. Local newspaper talking about more cuts to the public school system, no money for parks. On the road the Ron Paul signs are still in evidence. To this new geneeration the government is the enemy or a far-off source of handouts. My high school mate Norm Dicks has a center named after him. I was saddened to see he voted for Hoyer’s FISA sell-out when he didn’t have to.
But to return to my meditation. Bremerton is a working class town; it always was. But in my day there wasn’t the sense of utter hopelessness and helplessness I see here today. The American dream as it appears in these places is running your own business. If you fail at that or never make it, God help you. Nobody else will.
We are for a much rougher patch than people imagine if things really go down hill. I hope for our sakes and especially for the sakes of the poor souls I’ve watched in the past eight days that Bernanke lucks out. It doesn’t look good.
Thank you Ian.
This is semi-Off Topic, but so many people had been asking about the brilliantly-conceived, compelling ad with the young mom and her baby that ends, “are you talking about Alex because, if you are, you can’t have him.”
Last I saw discussion of the ad, someone was guessing about who sponsored the ad, and they were wrong. (so I won’t repeat the prominent org. that was mentioned).
I think these links will put folks on the right track (apologies if someone already has found the sources):
http://www.afscme.org/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-mcentee
I have zero time now, but look fwd to reading your whole post ASAP.
ALWAYS thought-provoking, interesting, and chock full of important info. we can use.
Looks like this one is gonna hit me tw’ the eyes with what I’ve already been sweating over. No-one, for a long time, will skate free of what booshcheeenie have wrought.
imo, they should bypass imp-of-each, toss ‘em in jail, and seal the key in shooter’s hooman-size lockbox.
Hyman P. Minsky maintained a more negative view of Wall Street; in fact, he noted that bankers, traders, and other financiers periodically played the role of arsonists, setting the entire economy ablaze. Wall Street encouraged businesses and individuals to take on too much risk, he believed, generating ruinous boom-and-bust cycles. The only way to break this pattern was for the government to step in and regulate the moneymen.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/.....lk_cassidy
We do need infrastructure not infrastructure just to create jobs. Rebuilding roads and bridges I agree our necessary but how do we upgrade the Net, cable companies, cell phone service etc without getting all those companies to agree on shared goals.
Never mind reasonable charges.
Correction: I just found that MoveOn helped pay for the ad
http://www.cosmostreet.com/cli....._white.mov
I like the idea of green power free fuel, no waste, but we need to make sure th consumer gets savings cheaper power means more jobs in industry.
# A massive switch from coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power plants to solar power plants could supply 69 percent of the U.S.’s electricity and 35 percent of its total energy by 2050.
# A vast area of photovoltaic cells would have to be erected in the Southwest. Excess daytime energy would be stored as compressed air in underground caverns to be tapped during nighttime hours.
http://www.sciam.com/article.c.....grand-plan
Ian:
Check your Facebook account. ;-)
Great post, Ian. Thanks.
Wasn’t it Dakinikat, a couple of weeks ago, who made a strong argument that all of our banks are on the verge of failing? That scared me more than anything I’ve heard (and I am pretty clueless about economics…).
Is there any chance Helicopter Ben will make the banks open their books? Much less let the banks fail? Or do we need a new Fed Chair and if so how do we get Ben to leave he is appointed isn’t he?
I’m your local bank pessimist, and certainly not all of them are going to fail. But some are, and people who have more than $100,000 deposited in them will not be covered by the FDIC.
And in fact some accounts that were moved “to get a higher rate of interest” are no longer FDIC insured, so check with your bank to see if you’re covered.
The largest banks will be not be permitted to fail. I would be more concerned about small regional banks that invested heavily in commercial and residential real estate.
Ian:
I think you are right. What is interesting is that Bush won’t sign the Dodd-Shelby bill(which some say is a bailout of Countrywide and BoA). Like a stopped clock, he might be right about that one, at least as far as bailing out a company. Bernanke on the other hand is a different story. Also, we haven’t had real economic activity in a while. The latest economic expansion wasn’t tech, or some other “real” invention. It was all just shuffling the cards, so to speak. In other words, there wasn’t any “there” there. It was all fueled by cheap money. In the end, it’s going to be a long painful time unless we have someone like Volcker running the Fed.
If Dakinikat has actual numbers please share part of the problem is everybody suspects but nobody knows.
Its like Ford the car company I suspect that $4 a gallon gas is bad for Ford but I don’t know how bad because Ford like the banks always says that everything is OK until they have to report their numbers.
Then they say we are still OK and that this is just temporary but then next month comes around and things are still bad.
I think you are right. What is interesting is that Bush won’t sign the Dodd-Shelby bill(which some say is a bailout of Countrywide and BoA)
Good Issue Ian whats your take on the bill?
There was a cultural reason it took the Japanese banks so long to disclose their bad debts, though; the loss of face was real stumbling block.
In our culture, it’s less about losing face than it is about losing shareholder value; the bailout of Bear Stearns was less about saving the bank than it was about saving the asses of a few key investors and making investors at other competing banks at ease so they wouldn’t panic and cause their assets to tank.
Still waiting for Lehman Brothers to tank, since they were next in line after Bear Stearns.
And how nice for JPMorgan’s investors — like Sugar Mama McCain — that they got the guarantee on Bear Stearns.
It could be another Bright Depression, but there will be many who never feel the pain; at least in Japan they felt shame.
Japan’s 80’s bubble has gone away, but the pie-in-the-sky, measurement-is-everything worldview which it inspired (via W. Edwards Deming and others) has not. “Continuous Quality Improvement” has largely been discounted by U.S. Business. But it looms ever larger in American education, thanks to the Spellings Commission and the self-appointed guardians who took their lead from it. These modern-day, process-engineering geniuses have decided that learning, including higher education, can only be discussed in terms of “outcomes” that can be “measured.”
I was at Lehman Brothers google finance page a few weeks ago people were talking about Lehman being the next Bear Stearns how they had shorted the stock and that Morgan Stanley, and was it Citibank were the next short targets.
I don’t think they even considered that Bush will bailout his friends sooner or later with tax payer cash. The only question in my mind is how many and which of his friends can or will he bailout?
Without knowing that I at least won’t short any stocks in this economy.
Kinda OT, in the “big money” dept, NBC Lisa Meyers just reported on the $300 million whiz kids arms dealers and Waxman’s committee. There sure is a stench about this one. Not that 2 kids got arms deals–I see that as the tip of the iceberg.
What’s the real story here?…coverup in the State Dept. alleged. Who were these kids fronting for? Where’d the money go? Think any of the Very Important Pundits will have an opinion?
…Or the alphabet, on most days.
For Factories I think it would be ok for education there should be standard that everyone should know to pass but beyond that teaching to the test should shut down creativity.
Do private schools and church schools have to make their kids take these tests? Real Change the homeless paper is doing articles on this issue as well as SnarkCassie.
OT in response to my letter to Obama on FISA, I received the following. The first part gives history and I will omit. For the rest:
I think the American people can also spot a sellout when they see one. Obama’s politics of change sure look like the same ole same ole. He has lost my vote.
Automakers continue to slide on sales woes
Forbes, NY - Jun 23, 2008
GM shares haven’t dropped below the $12 mark since Jan. 2, 1975, the center said. Meanwhile, Ford shares shed 49 cents, or 8.4 percent, to $5.32, …
FWIW, Mark Warner, the next senator from Virginia, talked quite a bit about this sort of infrastructure investment in his keynote at the Virginia Dem Convention.
hi didja see the link at my spot, of the importance of getting sunshine fer your good self?
it was news to me too
IIRC they bought obsolete and junk weapons/ammunition and blew most of the rest. I don’t think they got anywhere near the whole contract amount. They got caught first.
we are totally OFF THE RAILS ,but you knew this……….sigh,seems almost beyond help
To hijack a song lyric:
“The future’s so bright, I gotta wear welding goggles!”
BTW, Knut@7, IME Japan has a very strong social safety net (family obligations), but from the government, not so much. American families tend to be too spread out geographically to form a strong support network.
This post missed a few key points about Japan.
(1) Koizumi. The Prime Minister from 2000-06, J. Koizumi, was a Japanese Regan, a sort of “great communicator.” He was the first Japanese PM to be really adroit in using television. He was very popular while in office, but the chickens are coming home to roost.
His policies cut heavily into the social safety net. For example he cut back on health insurance, especially for people over 75. He did nothing to fix the national pension system, which is incredibly ineptly manageed, and has succeeded in losing over 50,000,000 records of pension contributions (not for 50,000,000 people, as the same person may have worked at many different companies). Finally he cut taxes for the rich which increasing the disgused taxes (health insurance and pension contributions) for the poor. As a result of the above, the well-off in Japan is well-off, but the middle class is disappearing. (Sound familiar?) Koizumi himself remained popular while in office, but his successors are very unpopular, largely due to the pension and health insurances problems, as well as a series of scandals.
(2) The political situation: The lower house of the Japanese parliament is the powerful body, and has a huge majority for Koiziumi’s party, the LDP, won in 2005 by Koizumi. They can stay in office for a maximum of 4 years. The upper house is now controlled by the opposition. The upper house is much less powerful but can delay things and use subpoena power. The LDP is hoping the Nancy Pelosi/Harry Reid types in the opposition party will commit some gaffe in the next year, but if the present masssive unpopularity of the LDP govt (approval=25%, disapproval=55%) continues they will lose power in the next election.
(3) The rapidly aging population. The birth rate in Japan has been well below the replacement rate for many years. As a result there is a rapid shift to the elderly in demographics here. Unlike the US there is not much immigration.
(4) Defense expenditures. This is the bright spot. Defense spending in Japan is relatively high, but nothing like the burden on the US budget.
The bottom line. Under Koizumi the LDP adopted a sort of “compassionate conservatism” slogan (this isn’t the slogan they actually used, but sort of the same thing) and it worked for about 6 years, but the voters have sort of figured out what this really was. Just like the US the major media (TV and maistream newspapers) are biased towards the LDP. But there still is a real chance (over 50%?) that the LDP will lose power in the next election. The question (like those we now have over Obama after his FISA cave-in) is whether the hypothetical opposition govt in Japan will really have the cojones to clean up the problems (which will require a terrific amount of energy to overcome the inertia). I’m a bit on the pessimistic side on this but one can always hope……
Where do kids that young get that kind of money 300 million is a lot of money for a HEDGEFUND TO BORROW never mind regular 20 yr olds with how much business experience? So unless they are all Bush rich they are fronting for somebody.
And Speaking of Bush whose Dad was ambassador to China just how do a bunch of 20 yr olds get really old Chinese Army ammo to sell to the Afgan Government. The Chinese Government is kind of funny about who they sell weapons too, there gun control laws are the NRA’s nightmare.
Also do any of them speak Chinese? Do any of them have connections like say a father who was ambassador to China?
Outside of Kissenger who else in the GOP has the clout to get an army contract from America to sell ammo to the Afgan government and also has the clout to get decades old Chinese Army ammo?
Bush 1 perhaps?
or this fine piece of work
http://www.courant.com/topic/n.....0993.story
Wait until August to see some real low numbers if fuel prices haven’t gone down by then.
my link is missing at 32
im very worried indeed
Yep. Your YouTube vid of Basil came from that vid. Usually by the middle of the summer I get taken for one of the evil brown people. Twenty minutes a day gives normal amount of Vitamin D.
Are the long maned ponies in the intro Shetland? They’re absolutely gorgeous animals. I want one.
A few points:
A) Banks aren’t lending to ordinary Americans who are good credit risks but rather the liquidity that Bernanke and other central bankers pumped into world financial markets is being lent out to hedge funds so they can speculate on commodities markets. As I have said before, consumers are being screwed and with their own money to boot.
B) The telecoms have already received upwards of $200 billion in fees attached to our phone bills which was supposed to be used to build a fiber optic network but which they decided to pocket instead.
they are mean little mofos,a neighbors”g’
omfg!!!!!!!!!
Doctor Holds Patient Hostage Until She Pays Her Bill
A doctor named John Drew Laurusonis and two of his assistants in Georgia have been accused of locking a woman in an examination room “when concerns arose about her ability to pay the bill.” The three were indicted last week on charges of false imprisonment for the October 4th, 2007 incident.
They got it from the Albanians, Communist China’s one ally in Europe during the Cold War.
But what are they? I’ll bet some sessions of kindness and their favourite treat would do wonders for their disposition.
yup ,under Junior its been a money orgy
yea Shetland… i was kiddin,they are cute,and very smart
i feed my other neighbors 2 stallions apples and carrotts everyday almost and they just………….LOVE it
A) Banks aren’t lending to ordinary Americans who are good credit risks but rather the liquidity that Bernanke and other central bankers pumped into world financial markets is being lent out to hedge funds so they can speculate on commodities markets. As I have said before, consumers are being screwed and with their own money to boot.
But they are investing er speculating on oil after the Tech bubble, and the Housing Bubble, do the super rich really want to keep tempting fate?
Is the Dow lower right now when adjusted for inflation than when Bush came into office?
Seven years of Bush Economics and thanks to bubbles scarfing up all the capital and then pooping er losing that capital people are wondering will the Dow have grown at from the time Bush got into office to the time he left office.
Worse than Hoover!
Ok but do any of them Speak Albanian?
Cute ain’t the word. The way they trotted right up at the presence of the camera(man) didn’t look like they were mean. More like they were looking for the expected handout. You know to blow gently into their noses so they’ll recognize ya, right?
While the occasional link to one’s own blog is appropriate, we have asked folks in the past to limit this to no more than once a day, thanks.
Discussions
Re: No worries for the shorts
autom..@comcast.net - 1 hour ago (20 posts)
There is no reason why financials won’t continue to drop. …
Re: Lehman and R3 Capital Partners
garr..@gmail.com - Jun 23, 2008 (5 posts)
SHORT-SHORT-SHORT Can someone learn me how to gets a job on …
Re: In the long run..
garr..@gmail.com - Jun 23, 2008 (28 posts)
Now, if John Gotti were running Lehman, could things get this bad?
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:LEH
Lehman Brothers google financial page all the talk still seems to be about shorts
okey dokey,i like to give the public service stuff
2005/6 is a fair bit out from the period I’m mostly talking about. I do agree that Japan’s demographics are worse, but in fact, the US is coming into a demographic profile very similiar to where Japan was when its bubble burst.
Yeah, you can’t trust them to do a buildout, let alone do it properly. Since they just took the money, and didn’t spend it, it should be taken back.
They didn’t have to. They worked through middlemen. Here is a long article that lays out most of the points of the Diveroli story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03.....ref=slogin
Kirk’s upstairs on the Fossil Fuels CEOs
this is so amazingly complicated. Is this where I find out how to make a lot of money in this pathetic economy? Or is it just info to help me not lose my entire life’s savings on some crazy-ass real estate deal?
Sorry, I was out, and now I am in EPU land. Here is the post (see comment #91) where Dakinikat laid out the sad situation of our banks:
http://firedoglake.com/2008/05.....od-prices/
Your correct I live and I’m blue collar in Northern Cal were all the life has been sucked out of good jobs and now there no money go out dinner to support all those service jobs. Japan had a little cash on hand we have nothing but worthless paper and citizens with out good jobs. I see more people living in their cars and believe it could be me next. Good Luck but at 59 I doubt I’ll see you on the flip side that deep this $ will be.
jo6pac
The race to the bottom continues.
Yes that is how bad it is, I’m in a small local bank that didn’t join the race to greed. They even run ads saying this. I won’t miss WS or any of the banks if they go Bye-Bye. We can say thanks to Sen. Graham and Wendy for this.
jo6pac
Done. Not 100% sure if you are who I replied too. If not, comment me again at some point.
Excellent post today. For a companion piece, may I suggest this superb diary at Daily Kos by Jerome á Paris? Oil, housing, dollar: the Blogs told you so.
Jumping back in in EPUland (I promised I would): wonderful, interesting, informative, but still troubling post. Sure, it’s supposed to be, to some degree.
But… Keeping the banks from going belly-up, allowing the rich to remain rich (gawd blessum, inclu. some relatives I won’t name), but not addressing health care gap and, seriously, the bridges are either failing or about to in many places. I could take you on a tour that would make you park your car forever…
I absolutely LOVE your emphasis on public transportation. Ohio lags shamefully in this area, yet seems intent on covering umpteen trillion square miles more with pavement which, as often as not, is substandard and starts crumbling from day 1, thus astronomically worsening multiple problems from pollution to loss of green-space, pollution, run-off rather than replenishment of moisture, over-flowing sewage treatment plant(s?) (Akron plus), fouling of the Great Lakes, soot-filled air, etc. etc.
Thank you much for your stab at part of the problem which, unless pols and everydayfolk start taking these problems seriously and doing something to back away from the brink.
Yes, Voinovich thinks we oughtta keep firing up OH’s filthy coal plants more & more. Perhaps our quest for improvement could involve concerted efforts to find replacements for some like him, truly.
Oh, and of course Sen V. praises increasing reliance on nuclear power, since it’s so squeeky-clean & leaves no residue.
Don’t get me started on that…
Ian Ian Ian, how do you continually write such brilliant stuff?
I think that with a Democratic presidency to go with the Dem Congress there’s a chance for a new start (of sorts). The current Congress is showing it can get things done, so long as the Repubs are harnessed to bad polls. If there’s a Dem president this horse & buggy could really zip along.
That means the question is whether they’ll have the right instinct for the kinds of things you’re suggesting. Will they invest ONLY when it’s needed? Will they let banks fail instead of ’saving’ them for perpetual insolvency? Will they invest in people with a health care reform we can believe in? Will they do productive things in a largely bipartisan manner that will hold up for the long run?
Time will tell, but I think Congress is pretty much there, so we’re sorta waiting for Pres. KoolAid.