Usually when governments representing the world’s largest oil producers and largest oil consumers meet to discuss why oil prices are so high, they don’t agree on the causes. It is curious, however, that the parties meeting in Saudi Arabia sometimes argued the opposite conclusions from what you’d expect.
The usual pattern is that during periods of very high prices, consumer advocates (buyers) blame the suppliers for manipulating the markets and exercising market power to keep prices artificially high, while suppliers claim the market is simply reflecting supply and demand fundamentals, and the problem is excessive demand driving up prices.
But note how these positions got switched:
But [Saudi] King Abdullah and the British prime minister, Gordon Brown, . . . soon offered totally different perspectives on the problem and how to approach it.
The king spoke of the “selfish interests” of speculators as a main reason oil prices have risen 40 percent this year, urging the gathered ministers to “rule out biased rumors and to reach the real causes for the increase in price.”
But Mr. Brown squarely pointed to fundamental economics and “oil demand rising faster than supply.” The U.S. Energy secretary, Samuel W. Bodman, put it more bluntly in a meeting with reporters, saying “there is no evidence we can find that speculators are driving futures prices.”
So we have one of the world’s largest suppliers suggesting prices are artificially high because of market manipulation, while two large net importers/buyers said it’s just market fundamentals, including too much demand, not market manipulation.
Of course Secretary Bodman is not representing the normal consumer viewpoint but is instead fronting for Bush/McCain supply side solutions. That’s in line with the Bush/McCain view that all will be well if we just allow more off-shore drilling. The Saudis were happy to oblige, promising to raise production if their customers asked.
Yesterday, McCain/Bush sent Lindsey Graham on Meet the Press to sell the dubious line that granting more drilling permits would immediately dampen the speculation that is raising the forward price of oil, thus contradicting their (Bodman’s) simultaneous claim that speculators are not driving up the current price. NBC’s Brian Williams missed the contradiction, but Joe Biden didn’t, noting that the oil companies already have millions of acres of off shore leases they have yet to explore. [More here] Since that’s true, giving oil companies even more leases they wouldn’t explore could have no immediate effect on current prices. C&L’s Amato caught more of Biden’s take down of Graham.
What remains unexplained is exactly how artificially high prices in a forward financial market (e.g., oil futures) could be sustained, even though no one — so far — is alleging that market power is being exercised in the "spot" or near-term physical market. One way to think about this is that if you’re a buyer and you think suppliers (or speculators) are asking artificially high prices in the forward markets, you just don’t buy forward; you wait. If there’s no market power being exercised in the near-term spot market, then you can meet your needs at a lower price by just waiting.
In other words, to successfully sustain an exercise of market power in the forward market, suppliers must be able to exercise market power in the spot market. They can either physically withhold product from the physical market or financially "withhold" it by refusing to sell it except at artificially higher prices. For example, oil companies could refuse to ship crude to refineries or refuse to truck refined gasoline to stations. But no one has accused the suppliers of taking these near-term actions. So what gives?
If suppliers aren’t withholding product in the spot physical market, then it’s not clear how speculators can sustain artificially higher prices in the forward markets, if that’s the cause. Perhaps there’s something unusual in the oil markets that changes the basic dynamics, but I haven’t seen a good explanation of it.
The Republicans are selling us snake oil with their "lease more and the price will fall" theories. But it’s not clear that "Enron-type manipulation" in forward markets is the core problem. Forward markets may well need to be better regulated — transparency is usually good for markets — but even if that’s true, I haven’t seen a credible explanation for how the current lack of regulation is causing prices to be higher than they should be. Perhaps our economists and/or oil market experts can explain it.



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I like the idea of fining the oil companies $1 million/day for not using the 68 million acres already given to them to drill oil:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..war-bills/
Democratic lawmakers in recent days have shown uncommon discipline in responding to Mr. Bush’s demand, repeatedly insisting that energy companies should first be forced to make use of 68 million acres of federal lands already leased to them for oil and gas exploration before they are granted access to more territory, and that the country needs to turn more aggressively toward the development of alternative energy sources.
Morning Scarecrow!
I’m seeing this being pushed by the Dems more and more. On the evening Congressman show on CSPAN 1, the Dems are bringing out their charts and graphs of oil leases and oil prices, particularly noting the abrupt rise in oil prices since Bush took office. And I’ve seen it noted in hearings as well. Good on them, it’s about time they fought back with the facts.
mornin’ scarecrow—i’ve been trying to find the numbers for a week of how many wells are dug and capped on the 68 million acres of public lands…….seems to me this should be public info……i can understand why the privately held areas aren’t public domain, but the public lands are OUR lands and it outta be somewhere…..
can’t find it anywhere.
gotta run, in and out today, will read later….bbl…….
forgot—wva rep rahall head of natural resources committee wants to put a ten year limit on leases and permits, if land not drilled in that time, lose permit…………
Perhaps (not holding my breath) we’ll get some answers this morning.
Greenberger is definitely worth listening to, he doesn’t mince words.
.
11:00 AM – 2:00 PM
HOUSE ENERGY AND COMMERCE/OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS SUBCMTE (live)
“Energy Speculation and Price Manipulation”
Chairman Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI)
Panel One
· Fadel Gheit – managing director and senior oil analyst, Oppenheimer and Co. Inc.
· Roger Diwan – partner and head of financial advisory, PFC Energy
· Michael W. Masters – managing member and portfolio manager, Masters Capital Management LLC
· Edward N. Krapels – director, Energy Security Analysis Inc.
Panel Two
· Doug Steenland – president and CEO, Northwest Airlines
· Steven R. Williams – chairman and CEO, Maverick USA Inc.
· Eugene A. Guilford Jr. – executive director and CEO, Independent Connecticut Petroleum Association
Panel Three
· Walter Lukken – acting chairman and commissioner, Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Panel Four
· James Newsome – president and CEO, New York Mercantile Exchange
· Robert Reid – chairman, ICE Futures Europe, Intercontinental Exchange, Inc.
· Michael Greenberger – professor of Law, director, Center for Health and Homeland Security, University of Maryland
2123 Rayburn House Office Building
from the CSPAN radio schedule
Good morning, oil consumers! The “rest of the story” is at the bottom of the WaPo version of the oil meeting in Saudi Arabia.
In the Saudi view, they get the profits and then get to decide where/how to spend it. If the US were to impose heavy taxes on oil/gasoline, the total price would still settle somewhere around where it is, but part of that total would be the US tax, which means the US would get to decide where to spend that money.
Higher oil/gas taxes and/or carbon taxes are the last thing our politicians will propose, but the logic suggests that it’s the smartest thing our government could do. Then we get to decide where that money goes, rather than the oil producers. Why politicians think Americans can’t understand and support this is beyond me.
Perfect timing for the hearing on oil market speculation. Thanks, Elliot.
By the way dmac, your flowers at eCAHN’s yesterday were lovely.
Now there’s an idea that needs to be implemented!
man, there are petitions to start refining off shore and alaska
these people are incredibly uninformed and once I show them how rediculous the suggestion most get it(except the fox fascists followers, (fff)
I do need a link and a referance because even those agreeing with me seem to think nuclear is one of the “alternative” sources we should exploit, I know nuclear is more expensive then the other sources but I need a referance or link to show the real costs of nuclear energy
It’s easy to see why it is speculation:
http://onlinejournal.com/artma…..3325.shtml
Last week I read that demand was down but prices continue to rise at the pump. One would think that if demand is down prices would remain steady as opposed to rising.
I also want the government to explore why some of the most productive refineries in the states were closed down by the industry not by regulation
I want those leased to DIFFERENT refineries then the big ones now
I also want policy which keeps our petro here in the states, NOT to be auctioned off to the highest bidder which can easily be our own enemies
this is the same thing as auctioning our nuclear material to our enemies
our national resources must be kept in the states, in reservoirs just like our water and marketed HERE at slightly above cost
we but what WE need and add that to our own reserves and then the price of our petro is based on the mean not market price
and if the oil corps don’t like the arrangement they can opt out of the frigging deal and we can bid for companies that would like the millions of dollars in profit they will make
we can even federalize the equipment needed to refine and store our product
Americans HAVE to be educated to the fact that petro mined here is OURS not the oil industry, they only lease the right to sell our product, they do not own it,
Good Morning: OT. Any more suggestions of the FISA front? Thanks
I am sorry I cannot add anything definitive to this very excellent, speculative post; however, I have found a wealth of valid and true information can be derived from seeing what Dick Morris has to say and then believing quite the opposite, for instance: http://www.dickmorris.com/blog…../#more-362
stopping speculation is simple;
if you have concerns in the states and you have oil futures you MUST take posesion of those futures, or at least a percentage
the percentage will be decided specifically with keeping speculators out of the market, the percentage will go as high as 100 percent if need be,
simple to stop speculation
Okay, but now the speculator has purchased oil at $128, which I assume is inflated by such speculation. The speculator is not a consumer; it must now resell the oil it bought forward. Why should buyers/consumers closer to the real-time physical market pay those prices? How does the speculator sustain the prices, without physical/economic withholding? And at what step does that occur?
Good acronym, perris, I think we should run with it. f3 or 3f?
On Morgan Stanley
so now they are buying more tankers
Is it safe to say Morgan Stanley has friends in high places? I always thought they were in the financial services business. Well, they are serving their own financial needs.
we also need to legalize hemp for alternative fuel production, we also need to mandate alternative energy research, obviously we have to start concentrating on science again
this administration has put all it’s “faith” in magic and that has to stop
NO MAGIC TAUGHT IN ANY SCHOOL SANCTIONED BY OUR GOVERNMENT
if a school wants to teach magic they MUST call it “religous teaching”, they can NOT call it an “alternative theory”
magic taught as religion, science taught in science class
3 f is better, f3 looks like a keystroke command
When Bush was elected in November 2000, the dollar was worth 1.2 Euros. Today it is worth 0.6 Euros, i.e., half as much. That sort of accounts for half of the increase in the price per barrel.
Also, demand is going up rapidly in China and India, nations that have way more dollars on their hands than they did eight years ago. And, they are bidding against us on each barrel of oil as it comes out of the ground. That would seem to account for most of the rest of the increase.
mMmm brownies!
oh, you’re talking about industrial hemp.
We are fucked.
“The oil ministers of the OPEC countries meet periodically to set production quotas for the cartel’s members and in the process establish an artificially high price for crude oil. Under our antitrust laws, this is illegal. Two years ago, Amy Myers Jaffe, an energy expert at Rice University, estimated that the real production cost was $15 a barrel, at a time when the price was approaching $60. Recently, an OPEC spokesman said the price could be $70 a barrel — a little more than half the current price — if speculation and manipulation could be eliminated.”
What would you say to a freshman in Econ 101, when he asks, “if this is true, how do you explain our “free market system”?
thanks toby! wish i could have been there to meet you all……
perris, yesterday i pulled up a bunch of stuff about gas-powered plants-due to a florida rep saying senior citizens would die if we don’t start drilling off-shore…..most plants are coal, not gas and oil….but just lost all of my windows because my browser crashed going to the saudi wapo article scarecrow posted, shoulda known better…….
here’s a good chart (site is coal slanted, but it’s a good chart) on percentage of kinds of power used. i verified it on another site with another chart…
http://www.bydesign.com/fossil…..icity.html
here’s a list of nuclear plants in us….better yet, here’s the google page, pick one, sorry, i’m in a hurry and on dial-up, no time to bring up all of my windows from yesterday….104 in use, 16-i think–not in use…….one plant can have more than one reactor…..the biggest drawbacks talked about by anti-nukes are environmental, for health of people and things, byproducts…..people don’t want to go there….think it’s as easy as throwing out a soup can. there are other issues involved.
http://www.google.com/search?c…..8;oe=UTF-8
no, i can’t wait – i need to heat my house, i need to feed my car. and when in the middle of a speculation bubble (to say nothing of fears for future supplies if one is worried about the possibility of manufactured conflict with iran) – people tend to hoard taking more oil off the market. for example, i had my heating oil tank filled this spring – something i would have never done in the past, as i’d normally be waiting for the lower prices of summer. but prices weren’t going down, and the possibly of conflict loomed. do you think i’m the only buying now in case prices continue to go higher and/or supplies are disrupted?
I
speculation induced bubble meets peak oil?
isn’t morgan stanley is the largest “holder”of heating oil in new england?
no one knows what’s happening on the london/dubai dark markets?
seems like a perfect storm of a resource approaching it’s production limit, demand increases (population and the creation of a middle class in china and india), a fiscal policy that has created a commodities bubble, and crazy unregulated speculation with fucked up tax incentives. have i missed anything?
if he is forced to take possesion he will be forced to store that fuel for a period of time, he will be taxed on that possesion if the investor has any american concern
forgot perris—recently there was almost an accident, cuz someone’s cell phone interfered with a gauge at one of the nuke plants…….sorry no link……
there is no such thig as “the free market system”, that’s how it’s explained
the very concept of money, of stocks, of possesion are all regulations
“free market” is a marketing strategy to get people to vote against themselves
they want all the regulations they like, none of the regulations they don’t like
go figure
Yep. Those arguments seem more logical to me than the one about speculation. I’m still trying to understand how the speculation can sustain the prices over time. I need to understand the mechanism.
Come on Scare! Two words explain the whole ‘conundrum’. They are two words you don’t wanna hear I am quite sure but nonetheless they are:
Peak Oil
and their scary cousins:
The Road to Olduvai Gorge….
And I do mean scary. If we don’t get some intellingent, ballsy (The Hill would work here), fukin’ leadership real soon you grandids will be, yes they will be, poking at the ground with a sharp stick to try and grow some food.
The solutions are here, on the shelf, but thanks to the fat, stupid, TeeBee watchin’, beer suckin’ Asswipes we got voting for morons like Lindsey Graham and his ilk Big Oil is gonna take our so-called ‘civilization’ down because….
Well ’cause they got the smarts of Dick Cheney. Who destroyed much to invade Iraq from which no barrel of oil has emerged since he and Lil’ Bush ‘liberated’ the place.
the cost of protecting the facilities, this requires our military assets, building evacuation systems and disposing of the waste
they all add up I believe to nuclear energy being the most expensive
kenned was talking about it on air america but I don’t have the source or the referance points
In considering the ratio of dollars per barrel of oil, one should focus not only on the supply and demand for oil, but on the supply and demand for dollars.
scarecrow, did you listen to this hearing?
how much time?
here is the bill being called for all the debt we are incurring and all the paper we are printing
that is a direct result, which I predicted more then a year ago by the way
we haven’t really seen all the inflation stateside but we will, once those who hold our debt start buying our assets with those funds our paper will be worth fractions what it’s worth today
your math shows our oil should be costing about 2 dollars at the pump and that would be acceptable for any president during their term in office
kennd= robert kenedy jr, that is a typo
because production can be controlled to insure the prices
the original force that drove speculation into petro was the prediction that the dollar would collapse, right now petro is the “gold” that backs the dollar
revbev at 14, i’ve been bringing up the fundraiser at blueamericafisa…i mention how much money has been raised in a short period of time, kinda indicates that people are not happy and putting their money where their mouth is and that that money is going for ads against dems who voted for immunity… mention donna edwards……and that i have not heard a single voter saying that they believe telcos should have immunity, whom are they serving? voters? not any i know, repub and dem…….and then i ask for a written response…….
and then i call kucinich’s office to thank him…and to get the local office number again to send him more money-so it’s not a web transaction…and then i call leahy to thank him……
and don’t forget to ask obama why he supported barrow instead of regina thomas, i’ve made that call a few times already………..and why he didn’t stand against immunity and loopholes that give immunity.
Just called the Obama office, before I had read your note, the response not satisfactory. The staff could only read a statement; he did not seem to have any new information. The statement about support + trying to revisit it about the immunity because not perfect. No comment about fillibuster. Since it is early Monday morning, may be the staff will get more up to speed. But basically I was put on hold until he could find the statement to read!!
Actually, demand is South East Asia, China and India is now collapsing as those governments, having exhausted their reserves are no longer subsidizing fuel costs.
Rioting has broken out across all those countries as ‘consumers’ are now starting to pay much, much more for gas and diesel. In the Eastern EU where diesel is now above $9.00/gal fishermen are also riotiing in protest.
Funny how Murkans heads firmly up their asses don’t seem to notice much…ain’t it.
And OT there’s always this to think about. How does everyone here feel about being the ‘New Germany’. Complete with pocket Hitler….
And with his stand-in for same waiting in the wings. You don’t really think Barkey’s gonna get us out of Iraq. Not really, do ya?
Yeah, have a nice day here in America. Another 9/11 is pretty much a sure thing with the number of friends we’re makin’…
‘Future’s so bright I gotta wear shades.’
Months. My focus here is on the argument about speculation and it’s logic. Other factors seem more understandable — increasing limits on production (whether you call it peak oil or rising costs of exploration/drilling/development, etc), rising demand (and inelasticity of some demand, as in your need for heating oil no matter what), declining value of dollar, etc. We also have a cartel that retains some ability to artificially limit production. All of those contribute to higher prices. But an argument is being made that it’s mostly speculation in forward markets, so how does that work?
Excellent point.
In the background, simmering away unnoticed by most of the public, is a catastrophic credit crisis. Remember Ian Welsh’s piece here, and the ghastly chart he used? This has surely had an impact on the value of the dollar, along with our massive debt burden and trade imbalance.
What little money remains in the market must bet on a sure thing; the only sure thing is consumption, therefore it moves to commodities including oil.
Ellie is very close to this issue with the observation of tanker numbers; why would Morgan Stanley bet on tankers? Because it’s the next best thing to a sure winner, and Morgan Stanley is probably desperate for something that gains value rapidly to offset its exposures to the credit market.
What I’d like to know is the real numbers on consumption; how much different is consumption globally than it was 4 or 8 years ago? How have the costs to produce oil changed in that time, including cost to finance? Can we calculate the cost of speculation on our own if we had these numbers, reduced to a per barrel figure?
and revbev–don’t forget to mention we need an emergency extension of medicare benefits, the date runs out july 1 before the bill will be consolidated…….very important……
There is a lot more than immunity that is wrong with this bill. Per Glenzilla:
And, I agree with Digby, when she said:
Oh, that Big Oil is so very clever. Their cousins, Big Uranium and Big Coal also game the system. Create an energy monopoly that leaves the ordinary person without a choice-burn hydrocarbons. Bribe and corrupt politicians such as Bush Dog Nancy Pelosi producing the Worst Energy Bill ever.
I am still promoting the Sun for our energy. Localization, not Globalization.
http://findarticles.com/p/arti…..33031/pg_1
In the spirit of giving folks information base on something more than propaganda I call all your attention to this post:
The Real Reasons for High Gas Prices.
You will note the lurking figure of The Vile Cheney in the background who, along with Bush, is trying to act as if he has nothing to do with….
…well, anything.
Not saying that the linked post is ‘the last word…’ on this but…
….it’s worth reading.
i haven’t heard the argument that the price is mostly speculation, just the recent price increases are mostly due to speculation. that’s been less than a year – so we’re not out of your “months” time frame yet.
speculation isn’t about logic – how long did the housing bubble continue before bursting? how long did the nasdaq bubble go before bursting?
i really have no clue here, but without fundamentals to sustain it (political insecurity, peak oil, long term (since ‘96?) fucked up monetary policy) isn’t the timing of a bubble’s collapse more determined by mob pyschology logic?
strongly recommend the hearing i linked to above.
But, Uranium isn’t a hydrocarbon, and the cost of Uranium represents only a tiny fraction of the cost of nuclear power.
All this bull about speculators or increased demand is just a distraction. It doesn’t matter which is true. Are we supposed to pretend that the price of oil just went up last year?
Oil has been going up steadily since Bush got into office, and faster since 2003. Everyone knew about increasing demand back in 2003. Bush, and a REPUBLICAN Congress, did NOTHING about it, except they invaded Iraq and propose drilling in Alaska.
The bottom line is that the new high price of energy is not a sudden thing. We could have taken steps years ago to deal with it. Bush and the Republicans chose to ignore facts, fudge the numbers and invent a phony debate over whether Global Warming is real or not.
And doesn’t it make perfect sense for us to want to start a little war, along with huge profits for Cheney/Halliburton and the need to protect information about The Energy Task Force, at any cost.
one last comment–on our local radio show i just used the analogy that the speculators ran from the housing bubble crash to oil and commodities, like cockroaches……..
and they are like cockroaches, turn on the light and they run and hide and if the light is left on they run to someone else’s house..and infest and multiply in the dark, then onto another house…
bush and co, buncha cockroaches…….
well the war in iraq has served to take much of the iraqi oil off the world market. i think this is the argument that greg palast makes?
on topic with links at think progress, this is interesting;
The dollar has collapsed under the stewardship of George W. Bush. Until that changes, oil will remain expensive. However, finding more oil might be good to try. Let the first new exploratory wells be drilled off of Kennebunkport, Maine.
saddam was indicating he would exploit the new reserves which many to believe more then saudi arabia
that is why we invaded Iraq, they cannot have the market dilluted
we didn’t go there to get oil we went there to prevent oil from reaching market
The speculation argument is this:
Things are so tight in the oil market as it is, that a bunch of different things could really drive the prices sky high. A couple of big hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, one bout of infighting between corrupt military factions in Nigeria, or one Bush-led foreign policy screwup or military mis-adventure in the Middle East could send prices spiraling up. And the likelihood of any of these events taking place is NOT diminishing — at least not any time soon.
Depending on how likely you think any of these scenarios are, you might want to bet a little money in the forward oil contract markets.
That’s the argument. Whether you buy the logic of it is another thing.
(YMMV, so to speak.)
it really can’t change much even with a new president, there are too many dollars running around, so embarassed how much paper we were printing the president stopped reporting the m3 index
those dollars are floating around, this president or next, they will reach market
Thanks. That was worth reading.
Oil prices are high because they are screwing us.
I didn’t mean that it was a good idea. I didn’t even mean to suggest we went there for the oil. I just meant that, to say that it had no effect of the price of oil seems to fly in the face in reason.
And of course we went there for the oil, not just there, but around the whole region. Why else would we go there? We’d be in Zimbabwe right now if what Bush said was true.
plenty of oil in Iraq, let them get back to the business of refining their national asset and the market collapses
we need out of Iraq pronto
This all reminds me of a child overhearing the parents talking in the living room. (Not to offend anyone in the discussion, please.) How many of us begin to understand this stuff, much less know any way to act, to prevent, etc. There was some coverage today about the oil exec. either cutting their pay packages or giving some back. Seems to me even their admission that we are in a mess. Also heard discussion yesterday that this Admin. needs way more than impeachment; we have war crimes. Yet, we are such a passive people. I live in an area where some folks still flaunt a Bush/Cheney sticker. Bush is a criminal sociopath who has always had the shield of his family. Getting elected even gave him the upperhand over his own cabal.
i hate this, i’ve been running around doing 40 things and getting ready to go to the eye doctor, called to see if they had a cancellation later in the day, ends up my appt was cancelled…… they sent me a letter? geeeeez.
well, good i guess, am gonna go make a better breakfast……
and when calling reps and sens today, don’t forget to bring up the a!pac-pushed shipping blockage of iran in the works, that without the un’s approval it is an act of war…….
two people just called in saying drilling off-shore is good……i slammed them with facts…..thanks scarecrow.
In the book Earth: The Sequel: The Race to Reinvent Energy and Stop Global Warming there is a chapter explaining a process where a genetically engineered algae is grown on the carbon emissions of the Redhawk Plant in Arizona, dried and recycled as fuel. Greenfuels is doing this exciting work.
http://www.greenfuelonline.com/
Within the past week I saw a story on TeeVee about and exception to market regulation that Ken Lay got the WH to arrange. It led to market manipulation in California and all those rolling blackouts. The thrust of the story is that exactly the same thing was being done with gasoline and home heating oil. That it was all a big con.
Nobody believed Grey Davis at the time of the rolling blackouts when he said it was due to market manipulation. He was dismissed as desperate and willing to say ANYTHING to deflect criticism–but history has shown him to be right.
I am not usually a Google goddess, but I found the story I was talking about on the first try. Whoot!
Here is is from KO
Don’t be fooled by the experts here. They like to pretend that they know everything and that we don’t know enough to be taken seriously. They like to talk about our opinions like we are innocent children who have come up with cute but naive ideas, but in the ‘real’ world only they know what’s going on.
Bush and Cheney ARE the experts here. Bush is a born oil man. Now, I know that Bush is the most incompetent ruler ever, but how can it be that these guys claim that they didn’t know that the price of oil was going up? They had plenty of experts telling them that they had to do something, and they ignored them, because to them, oil is the be-all and end-all. I know -Bush, Cheney and all their friends make much more money with high oil prices, so it’ hard to imagine that that isn’t part of the reason right there.
Good morning — thanks for the photo from yesterday.
There is a lucrative market in fractionating the leases. They won’t drill in them one day sooner. But they will sell investments in them, the nano second they are granted by the gove’t.
So far as I know, algae can be fed into digesters that turn it into swamp gas (i.e, natural gas), which can (after a bit of clean-up) be fed into the standard natural gas distribution system that is already in place. Also, cars can be converted to run on natural gas.
Lets say that it is the supply that is causing the gas prices to rise so dramatically, and lets further say that we could lower those prices by allowing the oil co to drill in the arctic. Now hear me out. We keep hearing from the oil co.’s that it is those horrible Democrats in congress and those “tree huggers” keeping us from drilling in the arctic that is causing the shortage of oil. Fine! Great! Lets accept the blame, but here is the solution to this problem:
1. We will open up the arctic to drilling when the following has been met and complied with.
a. 75% of ALL leases held by ALL oil co in this country and off shore are drilled , pumping and being refined.
b. ALL refineries are being run at capacity.
c. At least three new refineries will be built to environmental standards.
d. All drilling in the future must be overseen by Sierra Club, Marine fisheries, and oceanogrphers of our choosing.
You get my drift here I hope, lets lay the rising gas prices at the door of the ones responsible.
and scarecrow and pups—did you see this when i posted it the other day? interesting links.
tesla’s missing motor….remember he was the inventor/scientist who was ripped off, should have been more recognized than edison.
http://sayit-sayit-sayit.blogs…..ology.html
What gives well the tech bubble died so we had the Greenspan housing bubble which is dying and taking the big banks and hedge funds with them so now we have an oil bubble built on speculation and a falling Dollar.
Sure Peak oil plays a part but gas was $1.55 a gallon before Bush got in there is no way that many oil wells have run dry.
We need to know who is speculating, how much, and where are they putting their oil.
Tell me again why Big Oil gets to own all the resouces? It has long been recognized that no one owns the oceans, and even property right on shores are restricted. There is lot of precedent for reclaiming “private” property for larger public interest. When much of the world has to function, necessarily on energy supply, by what right is there a monopoly on that resource? I know; that makes me radical and suspect.
Memory of 1969 disaster colors current oil drilling debate
GIANT SWISS CORP…NESTLE……….trying to grab water for its Poland Springs brand…get em out
Uranium is a good investment now. Lots of depleted uranium is being used in our Irak occupation. It also helps the health industry by creating more cancers. Oops, they do not have a Health Care system in Irak. The neo-cons forgot about putting one in.
It’s partly the Enron/California story that worries me and makes me suspicious. Probably alone here, but I don’t believe the CW that Enron manipulation was primarily responsible for the price explosions on electricity or the shortages. There were many other things going on — serious droughts in Cal and PNW = very low hydro electric energy supply in a region heavily reliant on hydro energy; nukes out for prolonged maintenance; excessively high gas prices, which coupled with having to rely on the oldest, least-efficient gas plants sent marginal costs soaring; plus regulator mistakes forcing the utilities into bankruptcy, failing to pay independent suppliers (QFs) which meant they couldn’t operate (=> artificial shortages), inflated demand caused by retail/wholesale price disconnect, and so on.
Enron did indeed manipulate the market via false schedules, creating artificial congestion (and being paid to relieve it), constrained on/off games wrt to congestion management, and so on. The dollars they manipulated were in the tens of millions; but the real and contrived shortages from other causes were in the billions.
Nevertheless, California politicians found it convenient to argue that Enron and Enron practices were responsible for it all, and that was mostly propaganda from the PUC chairwoman most responsible for screwing it up. Davis was clueless and relied on her. She was grossly incompetent, but very good at pointing fingers at everyone else.
If folks remember (and it’s been around the ‘lake for a long time) Dick Cheney’s heavy hand is on all of this.
The House of Saud has been trying for some time to distance themselves from the Bushes and Halliburton. There’s nothing for them in this current play. The House of Saud needs long term stability in oil markets in order for them to complete the transition from an natural resource producing developing country to something like a developed country. They have a long way to go, and spikes in oil prices, combined with demands for them to increase their oil production, don’t help.
We, on the other hand, demonstrably need to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels, and in particular, liquid petroleum products. As a country, we’ve pissed away opportunity after opportunity to develop new technologies and markets in energy efficiency, largely because it was not in the interest of big oil to see alternative energy sources and more efficient means of transportation developed and implemented.
I’ve recently been repeating the trope that the Bush-Cheney era has been based on exactly what you would expect from someone who did poorly in business school in the 1970s: reliance on a lot of phony theorizing about how the “free market” will maximize profits and create opportunities. What they’ve really managed to do is combine the worst of free-market capitalism with the worst of totalitarian states.
All right, my rant is over.
a couple of old-timers here called in about the algae to gas process yesterday on the radio…….got a lot of people going about it…….and a few farmers here are using decomposing wood chips for fuel….
I don’t even want to give them that much understanding. It reminds me too much of BigPharma’s “research and development” argument. Meanwhile it is a ridiculously lucrative business in terms of profit.
Pat9: I got home well safe and sound, if you check this thread.
I’m not saying that the oil co have the right to own the oil leases just say the Republican line you here being touted in congress.
It’s just a bubble. Just like the housing bubble. As long as house prices continued to go up and as long as appraisers were giving out those crazy appraisals, lenders would loan $.
Same thing with oil futures. As long as prices go up at the pump, lenders will continue to loan $ on oil futures and traders will continue flipping their contracts.
Some traders hold a contract for less than a day. If you are flipping large numbers of contracts, you can make a “play” on a one or two cent uptick in price.
Ex-Mr. Prop spent a year experimenting with day trading. If you are discipline (ie don’t try to make too much $ on a single play) and never sleep, you can make pretty steady money at an executive salary range.
The problem is you must stay awake and in front of your computer screen 24/7. It’s not intellectually hard. It’s just exhausting
Goldman Sachs also does a huge crude oil business
The Fed is keeping interest rates low to help the banks which lowers the value of all our Dollars. The Fed is looking the other way at oil speculators, who they can regulate, who are driving up the price of oil.
The Fed took a bunch of Subprime loans from the banks at face not current value and gave the banks T-bills instead.
But the rich get taxed less on money earned from investments than from working a day job because *cough* they take Risks, *snort* that create jobs.
I disagree. B/C of our environmental regulations we use Light Sweet Crude. There are only two (IIRC) sour crude refineries in the US.
China, which seems willing to pollute it self into extinction, buys sour crude. The Saudis have a a lot of sour crude. If they increase production, that helps the Chinese, but not us. It does influence the overall world market price for oil though
just saying I can’t type or use proper english, lol
The players are the same, and the object is the same: maximize the amount of capital that can be extracted from a market by increasing the cost of a product through market manipulations.
There’s a lot to be said for the association of Enron with this — and many of the players are the same. A lot of the Enron finance boys drifted right back to the investment banks from which they originally came.
Yes, you are correct.
The short term solution is that we must conserve and become more efficient (they are two different things), because no longer term solution (drilling anywhere, nukes, solar, wind, algae, switchgrass, whatever) can meet our transportation, heating, electricity, etc. energy needs in next five-seven years. The math just doesn’t work. (But Scarecrow already knows this…wise one…)
There is an outfit just north of Bakersfield that is processing cow dung into natural gas and feeding it into the standard natural gas pipeline. Basically there are anaerobic bacteria that will digest just about anything into a continuous fart, which, after the sulfer compunds are rmoved, becomes commercial grade natural gas.
A bit of on topic fun from The Hill’s cartoonist, Chris Weyant: “If it hit’s oil . . .”
Check this out:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
THat sounds like a good thing to do on the Bush Brush Ranch. It has to be more lucrative than a brush crop, even on a good year.
I remember the Oil spill!
200,000 gallons covered 800 square miles, coated 35 miles of beach. As an ex-sailor, I can tell you a little oil makes BIG slick
Fred L. Hartley, president of Union Oil Co.:
“I don’t like to call it a disaster,” because there has been no loss of human life.
“I am amazed at the publicity for the loss of a few birds.”
U.S. President Richard Nixon:
“It is sad that it was necessary that Santa Barbara should be the example that had to bring it to the attention of the American people. What is involved is the use of our resources of the sea and of the land in a more effective way and with more concern for preserving the beauty and the natural resources that are so important to any kind of society that we want for the future. The Santa Barbara incident has frankly touched the conscience of the American people.”
Something else about the FISA bill, it turns the whole case law system on it’s head. It says that the AG will give secret evidence tohe judge ona motion to dismiss the civil suits, and assuming that the judge finds that secret info persuasive an ddismisses, the JUDGE CANNOT EXPLAIN HIS REASONIG IN HIS OPINION.
So we have “case law” without any “law”. No precedent to follow. No stare decisis WTF? It guts Article 3 of the Constitution
If it is a bubble then it pops then where are we. Those traders in the market are causing huge problem, money is being mad but at what expense to the economy and yet again where is congress? Sitting around with their fingers up their…!
Cool!!! Perhaps we can get this nonsense declared unconsitituional immediately.
The Democrats are busy preparing to accept full blame for problems that are a result of years of Republic rule.
Regarding Paul Krugman’s good news and bad news article. I am in for good news:
Sooner or later the oil speculators will run out of places to put oil. Unless Bush has been letting them store oil in old salt mines like where we keep the strategic oil reserve. But even then oil costs money sooner or later you are going to want to sell the oil to make more money.
Maybe your a speculator, hedge fund, morgan Stanley who bought oil with 15 to 1 leverage sooner or later the banks or stockholders are going to want to get paid.
Maybe your an oil company with plenty of money but you are worried about being Nationalized there will come a time when one big person will sell and then the price will drop as everyone tries to sell before the price drops more.
Really dumb question: could this information simply be that “the President of the U.S.A. said so?”
I mean, we can talk all day about the telecom lawyers’ opinions about the legality of it all, but if the President says “do it”, can they really say no? (Notice I didn’t say “SHOULD” they say no…)
Christy has a post up about an upcoming Book Salon, and in a couple of minutes she will follow with another post. See you guys later, and thanks for the observations on oil speculation. Now I have to decide whether to fill my gas tank today or wait till next week.
I am in Beijing, and I can tell you this place is hideously polluted. My pictures of the Great Wall are horrible. I cannot imagine how the Olympic athletes will hold up under this constant irritation.
Regardless of the mechanism for speculation to hold up prices, it is an easy thing to test. As pointed out above, the margin requirement for speculation in oil is very low. If we raise it substantially and the price drops, we will be able to infer that it was speculation. If the price doesn’t drop, then it wasn’t speculation.
I note that every buyer of a contract for forward delivery is matched by a seller. None of this is transparent, because of the holes in regulation created by Phil and Wendy Gramm. I see no reason not to run a test. It could only hurt the profits of people I couldn’t care less about, people who have been screwing around with the system forever.
This bill just gets worse and worse the more legal experts analyze it! Why don’t they just annul the Constitution and be done with it? Except the sacred Second Amendment, of course, can’t upset the gun lobby.
wigwam at 91, thanks, i’ll pass that on…..lotsa cows here. although rather small in population, athens has a unique ’mix’ of society here…from appalachian self-sufficients to rastas to repub snoots…couple of people have cars that run on fast food oil. until a few years ago, only had about 6 fast food places……quite a few people off of the grid…..some still have outhouses cuz it costs too much to run the lines to houses in the woods…….we have everything here.
most people land in the ’land of frugal’ and self-sufficiency……bartering is big here.
bet a few would like to know about the cow dung……
Sorry you could not provide an illustration ; )
China seems to be putting a lot of emphasis on nuclear power. Per the Wikipedia:
scarecrow at 103—that makes YOU a speculator!!!!
Solar energy can be easily used to produce heat, which is what burning dirty coal does. Insane McCain wants a new battery. But the best battery is a hydrogen fuel cell. The hydrogen is produced by the solar energy. No burning hydrocarbons or crappy uranium. A solar economy would bankrupt the owners of the oil well, coal and uranium mines. They deserve it.
http://www.dailytech.com/MIT+S…..e12153.htm
Does anybody have any idea on who specifically stands to gain on opening up the Arctic Wildlife refuge?
even the according to Krugman:
Regular landfills (garbage dumps) typically give off enough natural gas to power all the municipal building in the political subdivisions they serve (bigger town or city = bigger landfills), yet rarely do they bother to collect and use it. Instead taps are put into the ground and controlled flame torches burn off the natural gas. Drives me crazy
On of the biggest produces of methane, in form that is readily usable? Cow farts. I kid you not. Nobody can figure out how to economically collect it though w/o asphyxiating the cows. So instead the cow fart contribute to green house gases.
The reason speculators can do this is because the margins are only 5-7% so they need only put a little down for what they are buying. They have taken long positions and this has put markets in contango (futures prices sloping upward into the future). These traders don’t really take physical possession of anything. The spot price tracks with the futures price because in a contango market you lose if you wait on the spot price because that price will be higher in the future.
I should point out that the supply/demand argument is pure BS for two reasons. First, the differential between supply and demand has changed little in the last 3 years. Yet it was only in the last year tht prices doubled. So why not in the previous 2 years? Second, there is a myth that there is all of this spare supply out there. This both is and is not true. Most countries are producing as much as they can (given their particular circumstances) because prices are historically high and they are trying to maximize their profits now and because of bad economic planning and increasing population they always need more cash now not later. Saudi doesn’t have a lot of reserve capacity. A figure of 2 million bbls/days is used. But 3/4 of this is essentially so heavy it’s practically tar. Most of the remaining 750,000 which is usable is already in production. Even so, some countries like Iran were storing oil in tankers not for some speculative push but because the demand wasn’t there. So the supply side is somewhat conused. Suppliers in fact are trying to supply the market but the demand is not as strong as made out. Yet prices continue to spike. Why? Speculation, speculation, speculation. The reason a Gordon Brown doesn’t say so is either because he is an idiot or because he is more frightened of instability in financial markets caused by confronting the current hedge fund/investment bank speculation than he is by the instability they are causing by their largely unrestricted speculation, speculation that I might add is funded by the liquidity that the Fed and other central banks have pumped into financial markets. As I have said before, we are being screwed and what’s worse with our own money.
Umm, on going to Prague, a friend says “smells like Beijing.” Tawain could stand for improvement as well. Luckily the whole of China doesn’t smell like Beijing.
Uh oh. You said the Nationalization. Now we’re in trouble.
We have the infrastructure in place to store and distribute natural gas (methane), and it is a proven technology for powering vehicles. Mother nature has multiple ways of converting almost any biomass to methane (farts, swamp gas, etc.) Somehow I think this is going to be a key technology.
Hugh — helful comment, and you could be right, but see the link from ACitizen at 41. Suggests speculators are selling short, not the other way around. Seems a confusing picture at best, so I’m skeptical of current explanations that its mostly only think instead of a bunch of factors.
You argument sounds convincing except for one thing. Enron went belly up and California came out of crisis.
I’m not saying that those things were not factors, but w/o the deliberate manipulation……? I don’t think you get that rolling blackout crisis.
It was a kind of “shock Doctrine”. California was very resistant to raising electric prices. Suddenly, wham, citizens get hit with repeated blackout. Resistance to higher prices evaporate “just don’t turn my Fridge and AC off nice Mr. Energy Company man”
China had the worst winter ever too.
Not sure what Enron’s own collapse had to do with California, where they made money. That collapse was due to other financial dealings apart from electricity. California indeed came out of crisis, but only through a series of measures that obscured the fact that eventually, they had to pay for what they consumed. The payments are now spread out over years and buried in ratepayers’ bills.
Enron manipulated the Day-ahead and real-time spot markets operated by the ISO, and they made millions doing that, but they didn’t have that much impact on the physical shortages that led to rotating blackouts. That’s mostly myth, a convenient myth for politicians.
California is sometimes about 1/5 or so dependent on hydro — and they lost a huge chunk of that during the drought; California has several thousand MW in nukes, but two plants were out longer than expected; California has several thousand MW of QF (independent generators built in the 1980s-90s under Carter energy act) which were not being paid, because the utilities were bankrupt (thanks to PUC policy decisions) and that forced 2-3000, off line. At the same time, rates were kept artificially low, driving up demand, even though wholesale prices were soaring.
Artificially high demand plus real supply shortages plus contrived shortages = blackouts.
Makes Nixon sound like a DFH, doesn’t it? He’d be MUCH to librul to be elected today… The Overton window seems to have been pushed all the way over into Ghengis Khan territory.
As has been pointed out, this is a bubble. Speculators will mostly bet the market will continue to go up until it collapses (just as they did in the subprime crisis). In the late phase of the bubble, you may get some investors betting against the market, but this can be dangerous. If you mistime your selling short, you end up having to buy at still high prices to cover your position even though the market may shortly tank. Of course, it is in the very nature of a hedge that you play both ends so that in a late bubble you both buy and sell. If the market continues to go up, your profits are reduced. But if nosedives, it also reduces your losses.
Although Justice Kennedy has dug deep several times now and done the right thng. I don’t want to keep relying on SCOTUS to save us from legislative that is just plain dumbfuck irresponsible.
Actually a friend tells me Asia is on tenderhooks (or whatever) in general.Take S. Korea for instance.
They aren’t hiding the oil. Anymore than we were hiding or storing housing stock during the housing bubble.
This is a pure market play. Straight up bubble.
I couldn’t agree more.
I thought a lot of things could give off methane.
I agree with Glenn Greenwald that the way to get the legislative branch to be more responsible is to turn the Democrats into a progressive party. When Republicans run against Republicans, the Republicans win. (Harry Truman) And it’s even worse if the Republican is posing as a Democrat, which makes it impossible for the rest of the Dems to get stuff done.
We need to make examples of some democratic incumbants. Primary them and if they win, go after them in the general.
Hugh just said, cogently, what I have been trying (and failing) to say all morning.
So, “WHAT HUGH SAID”
Back in the 70’s when we had gas rationing. I was sent to represent my University at a foreign affairs conference run by the Naval Academy.
My conference paper was a plan to make the US energy independent in 15-25 years. In my roundtable was a VP from Mobile oil. He offered me a job on the spot. Said it was to keep me from going to work for a not – for – profit that might implement the plan.
I was selected by my round table to deliver out roundtable report. Lots of Senators and cabinet secretaries and Arab princes in the audience.
Got offered jobs in Saudi and in Kuwait. Same thing, to keep me from going to work somewhere that might actually implement the plan. I was a gov’t and politics major, not an engineering major, yet every engineer I have ever showed it to, said that the component part of the plan they that engineer had expertise in,was totally doable with then existing technology.
HUGE part of the plan, methane from both large scale (municipal) and small scale (backyard, farm yard and factory yard) methane production.
Instead of hog farms being a huge source of pollution, they out to be a huge source of renewable energy. Same with Cows.
Hell, during WWII when gas was rationed, my grandpa modified a car to run on chicken poop cause my daddy kept chickens in a coop in their backyard in Queens since meat was rationed.
The writer learned in forward and spot markets doth protest too much.
Good on you. You ought to post that plan. I, for one, would be very interested.
Haven’t had a chance to read the comments, I know this is firmly into EPU land, but since I’m always harping about this I thought I’d leave something here anyway.
The oil futures market was 13 billion 3 years ago; it’s over 250 billion today.
Get a bucket. Put 13 oz. of water in it. Now pour another 250 ounces of water on top of that.
I’ll bet you the water level rises dramatically, just as oil contract prices have over the last 2 years.
Almost everyone that takes the “Nothing to see here, move along!” approach to the speculation issue has skin in the game — regulators, hedge fund managers, traders, etc.
Common sense dictates the flow of billions of dollars into anything, (especially leveraged in some cases up to 30 times) is gonna raise the price of anything.
The only rational discussion to have is ‘How much?’.
Sorry to say, but that was no ‘myth’.
You really need to see “The Smartest Guys In The Room” re: Enron & the Calif. energy crisis.
They’ve got actual footage of traders calling power plants requesting they shut down, and they did it.
This is absolutely bang on. There’s no other explanatory factor for the rapid increase over such a short period of time.
Inflationary effects are slow to emerge in any market. But it is a certainty that the dollar will continue to fall as the Fed pumps more money into the economy to bail out the big banks (or big bank, as the case may be down the road).
scarecrow, thanks very much for this post. Here’s a youtube of Olbermann talking about the “enron loophole.”
You’re clearly not agreeing with Olbermann’s claims that closing the enron loophole could immediately cut $20 off the price of a barrel of oil.
FWIW Michael Greenberger’s testimony on energy price manipulation from about three weeks ago.
this is a bubble argument. But it’s a hard argument to make, because leverage cuts both ways, and there are speculators on both sides of the transactions. If someone is trying to drive a bubble, he risks short sellers bursting it. And you can’t claim that speculators are driving the spot market.
And, in any case, speculators are a small fraction of the people participating in a futures markets. Most participants are agents with a current underlying position, like the airlines, hedging that position. I’m trying to figure out how to do that with next year’s heating oil for my co-op for this reason.
If you’re looking for a conspiracy, it has to be suppliers conspiring to restrict supply. This is, of course, why OPEC exists, to restrict supply. And US oil companies have acted in ways consistent with restricting supply of refined products.
from Oil Market Speculation hearings this morning – I think he just said “more than 50% of the trades could NOT actually accept delivery of the orders.” So that seems to mean they are trading just to run up the price.
Someone above commented that Iraq oil may have been purposely kept off the market – now I wonder if price run up of oil is now supposed to want americans to be happy that we invaded Iraq so now we will get their oil and the prices will decrease. After reading Shock Doctrine – plans like this from this corrupt administration are too believable.
Sorry, but I have seen the movie and think it’s discussion of California is crap. The people they interviewed on the California crises, especially the chief regulator, all had an interest in pointing the finger somewhere else. The question is not whether Enron tried to manipulate prices — they did — or tried to exercise market power — they did – but rather how much effect their efforts had versus other factors, which are usually forgotten.
I was there when the sausage was made; I debated Enron’s attorneys/consultants many times when the market rules were being developed — we lost that battle in California, won it elsewhere. But if we blame California’s crises all on Enron, then we tend to assume that once Enron (or its progeny) is gone or dealth with, we’ve solved the problem. California’s politicians want us to believe that. But I don’t believe that.
But the suppliers don’t need the futures market to do that, nor does argument require the presence of speculators. You can say, perhaps, that the suppliers are setting up the speculators for the kill by holding supplies off the market, locking them into bubble prices, then selling short while flooding the market.
The suppliers are inherently long the product. If they participate, they will take a short position to hedge against price falls. They’ll purchase an option to sell at some future price to lock that price in. An airline would purchase an option to buy at some price, to lock the price. These are, by far, the bulk of people operating in these markets.
wrt to Olbermann, I’d frame the difficulty another way. Speculators can affect the forward price, but it that sustainable, and if so, what is the mechanism? Some here have offered explanations worth considering.
But there’s another problem. It may be true that speculation contributes something to the current price. Let’s assume, just for illustration, that it raises the total price by $20/bbl, from $115 to $135. Now suppose we knew how to “regulate” speculation somehow (undefined) and that contribution to the price falls to $0. Does it follow that the price falls by $20/bbl, or does the current level of demand sustain it at its current price, while producers sop up the $20, or some significant portion of it?
Scarecrow, it’s easier to just ask “Is there speculation going on?” Because if the speculation stops, and the price doesn’t go down, then there was no real speculation.
Unless you have some way to directly affect supply or demand, you can’t move a price permanently up or down. The other participants will take you out.
The only plausible thing here is the “risk premium”–that market participants fear future supply interruption and are bidding up the future price (and laying in current supplies) because of a fear of higher prices due to that supply interruption. This is like selise filling up her oil tank early. This should show up in growing inventories.
I think we’re looking at this the same way. And I agree there could easily be a risk premium at work, given the uncertainties — and there are lots of things contributing to those uncertainties — e.g., renewed/expanded wars. Of course, it’s easier to blame “speculators” rather than instability in Nigeria, our foreign policy or threatening statements wrt to Iran from both parties.
Yes, Scarecrow, we do indeed agree. Personally, I don’t believe in the risk premium. Production levels have been reasonably stable, and I don’t think anyone really believes that the US is going to interrupt Iranian production.
where “really believes” means is will to bet a lot of money on it.
Much appreciated.
Speculators are not the factor that has effected the rapid price rises. Speculators are moderators in all markets. Their influences have a smoothing effect. The radical run-up is more to do with lotsa dollars from hedge funds who’ve moved away from the bubbles in the stock and housing markets to the commodities markets. It’s not just oil, but food as well.
As often happens here, we’ll just have to agree to disagree, which is fine.
In closing, however, I’ll leave you with today’s WSJ, first column, second item.
“Speculative traders’ interest in oil accounts for 70% of all trading in West Texas Intermediate crude on the NYMEX.”
Pension funds as well are pouring money into commodities. They’re absolutely crazy ape bonkers for doing that, to be sure.
Keith Olbermann did an expose on it see link below.
I think it makes sense. The regulations are so loose plus the leverage is so high it is probably easy for a few big players to manipulate. Plus to add to all of it there are all these articles about peak oil, increased demand in China etc to make it look like it is just the market. Maybe it is a little of both, but if 20% of it is speculation that is a 20% that is helping to kill our economy with dreaded inflation. Our whole system of moving goods requires oil. Lots of it. Anything that makes the price go down will help our economy.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..-loophole/
thanks for returning, scarecrow; you’ve been missed.
kairosincal.
Yea… still beating around the BUSH on the issue for high gas prices. WOW
Pretty good followup to that with the new oil drilling proposal. They shouldn’t do it.. we wont see the effects anytime soon.
http://www.blog.automotiveaddi…..st-for-gas