The acceptance by Barack Obama of the FISA bill, which both grants telecoms immunity for lawbreaking and effectively strips Americans of their 4th Amendment rights makes for a good time to reflect on the Democratic party. We all know, but in the heat of partisan warfare, tend to forget, that the Democratic party is not a liberal or progressive party. It has members who are progressive or liberal, but it is controlled by "centrist" Democrats.
"Centrist" isn’t a very useful word, however, since where the center is changes a lot. In the US Congress today there are three ideologies:Reactionary, Conservative and Liberal. A Reactionary is someone who wants to go back to a better age. Republicans are mostly reactionaries. They want to undo FDR’s New Deal, and indeed, over the last 30 years they’ve repealed most of it, till little remains besides the great spars of Medicare and Social Security, still too dangerous for them to destroy, though they keep trying. Indeed, even the reforms of Teddy Roosevelt need to go for the modern Republican party. Their ideal era is probably somewhere in the 1890s, the era of the Robber Barons.
A Conservative is someone who wants to keep the best of the past and to make any changes, if at all, very slowly. That describes many Democrats. Democrats have been engaging in a long battle to try and save the remains of the New Deal. Now despite the word "new", the New Deal is, in fact, over 70 years old. This isn’t modern legislation. It is old, old, old. Most people alive have never lived in a world without the New Deal, though youngsters see less and less of it. Democrats as a group are not leading great charges for, say, Universal Health Care or a Tobin Tax or anything that might be considered forward thinking—they’re just trying to hang on to some of the old world. Because they have no positive vision for the future they tend to compromise towards Reactionary ideals and as a result, more and more of the old liberal legacy has been repealed.
Liberals and Progressives believe that there are new ways of doing things that can be better than how things were done in the past. Since the majority of legislation over the past 30 years has not been liberal legislation, but rather large scale repeal of the New Deal, combined with laissez-faire ideology recognizable a hundred years ago, it’s fairly clear that Liberals have no real power. Conservatives, rather than forming coalitions with Liberals have tended to do so with Reactionaries. You can see this today, where the House is essentially controlled by Blue Dogs (Conservatives and a few Reactionaries) who vote with the Republican party. It’s even clearer in the Senate, where there are more conservatives and fewer liberals.
So the US has spent the past thirty years in an essentially reactionary mode, with conservatives occasionally teaming up with liberals to slow down the pace with which New Deal legislation and government has been destroyed.
For those who believe in essentially liberal government this has been a trying time. Heck, for someone of my age: a trying life, in political terms. And what Barack Obama has just told us is that he’s an essentially conservative democrat who will compromise with reactionaries and totalitarians (the impulse to be free to spy on anyone, with only the executive deciding who, is a fundamentally totalitarian one and has no place in a republic). Whatever sympathies Obama may have for liberalism, or even for the Constitution, he cannot be trusted to fight for either if he feels it is not politically in his interest.
The calculation is simple enough: liberal and progressive voters will hold their noses and vote for him anyway. Moving right increases the range of people he can appeal to and costs him very few votes. Three supreme court justices, after all, are held hostage.
This is the raw calculus of power which has held progressives hostage for over a generation now. The cost has been severe, both to the country and to the Democratic party, because in fact, a lot of people have refused to be held hostage. Oh, they don’t vote Republican, but they do sit out. Non-voters poll more liberal, more progressive, than voters. Why? There are a number of reasons, but one of them is that they feel they have no one to vote for. As Democrats have slid further and further right, voters have repeatedly chose to vote for the real Republicans, rather than the fake ones. Democrats have generally won elections, not on their own merits, but when Republicans have exhausted the national patience. In no years is this truer than this year and 2006. It’s not that Democrats have been wonderful, polls show the public despises Democrats in Congress. It’s just that they aren’t Republicans, and Republicans have just reigned over perhaps the most incompetent Presidency and Congress in American history. Which is certainly saying something.
The right wing faced this same battle some 40 years ago. They won it. They took a moderate Republican party and remade it in their image. Pretty awful image, but there are things to learn from their success, including strategy and tactics.
But the most important thing to understand is that politicians respect only two things.
Money & Votes
If you want influence, if you want power, real power, you have to be able to deliver those two things. You need to be able to win elections for your champions. You dances with the one that brought you: the ability to elect and defeat politicians is the only thing that will make them fear, love or respect you.
What this means is not just donations, nor volunteering. It means building up an infrastructure and a cadre. It means being able to put a machine on the ground which can do registering, canvassing and GOTV. It means having a message machine, from think tanks to ad agencies to reporters and columnists who actually believe in liberalism. It means being able to funnel money to those who need it and can use it. It means having a media machine which can reliably communicate with both the base and the population in general.
With that you remake the party. You do it one incumbent at a time. When they retire you make sure that the person who replaces them is as liberal as possible. When they don’t retire, you pick your fights and primary the most egregious ones. Even if you fail (and the right fails more often than they win) the near-death experience is a warning shot across the bows that changes behaviour. (Notice how quiet Specter has been since his near-death experience.) You can do that because you can put a machine on the ground, you can provide policy through your think tanks, you can spread messages through your media and you can pump money where it needs to be when it needs to be.
But this all requires not just specific campaigns like the one against telecom immunity, or specific campaigns to help candidates, although those are necessary, it requires long term infrastructure spending and building.
Even in the short run, this sort of infrastructure is the only chance we have to hold people like Obama and Hoyer and Pelosi and Reid and all their enablers responsible. Day in, day out, relentlessly.
Because no single person is going to save the Democratic party, or the US. Obama, as he just proved, won’t. But, to be fair, neither will anyone else. No one person can do it, not even someone who really wanted to. As FDR once said "now make me do it." To get the government and the politicians you deserve you’ll have to deserve them. And you’ll deserve them by making them do the right thing, not expecting them to.
So, to those Obama donors who are disgusted by the FISA capitulation, I say this: vote for Obama. But give to build liberal infrastructure or elect reliably liberal Reps or Senators. You can find some that have been vetted on this Blue America list, or you can do your own research, but please, consider this seriously.
Polls consistently show that Americans are more liberal than their politicians. The electorate is ready for a liberal party. So the job is to give them the chance to vote for one.
Related posts:
- Nebraska Democratic Party Passes DFA/FDL/Credo Resolution in Support of Public Plan
- Democratic Staffer: Blue Dogs are “Hell Nos” on Public Option
- “Progressive Block” Strategy: Is It Really Happening?
- Dana Milbank’s 750 Word Quota and the Future of Progressive Activism
- Learning from the Cramdown Fight: Progressive Ideas Need Help





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Aloha, Ian!
Ian, right on the nose as usual. For the last 2 days I have been thinking along those lines but could never have said it as well as you.
Thank you for a very good post and for being what I think of as practical.
“Conservative is someone who wants to keep the best of the past”
That’s what they used to be about, when they were mainly just frustrating and wicked. When the radicals took over their party, whether PNAC or fundie, and the became all about change — the wrong sort of change — that’s when they became actively evil.
Ian, just got here. Top of HuffPo:
Obama: No Immunity for Telecoms.
Seconded, enthusiastically.
digg
really,
Ian stop making sense.
Thanks Ian
My late father was a conservative and he didn’t want to be involved in other people lives. It was live let live and both parties have moved to the extremes. You are right it starts at the bottom and works up, the only thing O has done the was right was leave Dean in and if he doesn’t have to fight the other DNC machines, this might just work it’s self out in 50yrs. I won’t live to see this and I wonder if the 20/35s have it in them. Or Fascist state is born (all ready here) and it’s citizens are history.
jo6pac
Everything is on schedule, please move along.
Thanks for this Ian. You say that politicians are influenced by money and votes, I would add, the prospect of prison.
Unfortunately, that’s a lot of spin. He said in his statement that he was against the immunity but that overall he supported the bill that the House had passed.
So he’s basically OK with giving away the 4th Amendment.
Thanks very much. From your link:
Well said, Ian.
This is one of the many things going through my mind today. Just have to work a little harder turning abstraction into reality.
We need goals what do we want? We need ideas on how to reach these goals and most important of all we must check to see how we are doing both in getting our goals and implementing them.
For the beginning just a few easy goals to warm up and build success, then we move on to big things with two exceptions end the War and Impeach Bush.
Second the GOP has been waiting since Reagan to end abortion I am not going to be that
patienter played by my party.Try fail try again then try some other way but don’t pretend to try just to keep getting my vote, I’m not as accepting of failure as the GOP!
Also school choice, vouchers,private schools sure it sounded good the GOP passed it but test scores did not go up maybe a little government monitoring and evaluation of these programs are needed ?
Regardless we should not be like the GOP and defend our ideas when its been passed into law, tried out in the real world and failed.
Nope we should say hey it was a nice idea maybe the implementation was off, still we gave it a few years but its not working so we are canceling it.
[MOD note: edited by mod at commenters request]
Same statement as yesterday, no? See ew’s place for thesis-length takedown of that.
Sadly, this is how emptywheel interpreted:
Thanks.
My bad.
Ian, thanks for this. It resonates with the one idea I’ve been meditating on intently in order to keep my own personal hope alive:
The notion that FDR had to be pushed, both by serious-as-a-heart-attack circumstance and by many, many urgent voices, to rise to the challenge of providing what was best in the New Deal. Whenever I read the historical detail of the thrashing out of his ultimately beneficial policies, it puts me in mind of the famous saying about politics and sausage-making. An awful lot of it can be really ugly, but it still is possible to get a decent product in the end.
I plan to keep reading more historical material about FDR’s administration in the months ahead, not because I want to — or believe we can — return to that prior age, but because I believe in that adage (I think it was Mark Twain’s) which says “History never repeats; but it rhymes.”
Totally agree all it will be the Dog and Pony show but no one gets a pony. Sorry. The next thing will be the Net with the big 4 taking control so this conversation can’t be held. Sad.
jo6pac
Oh, no worries, and I do apologize if my terseness came across as irritation — I’m just a little weary at this point. I guess I got audacious enough to hope a little for a minute there…
Good on you! I think all of us would find if we really got into the nitty-gritty of any good things done by our government we would find the whole process to be unbelievably messy, and people that are held up as some kind of heros had to be literally kicked in the butt more than once to get them to the place where something would happen.
I agree wholehartedly with Ian, and Rayne, and I have been saying over and over too, it took us a really long time to get into this mess – and it’s going to take a while to get out.
As Ian is trying to point out The Magic Man is irrelevant to what we, we progressives, need to be about.
It should be clear by now that ID politics and personality politics are the tools of the ReichWing to win even when they should be losing.
Hmm I guess he got a whiff of which direction his Base was blowing…
He can blow me right now for all I care.
Excellent idea. And my readings show FDR as one smart, informed and sneaky bastard the likes of which we do not have on the scene so….
We’ll have to go another way.
Like movement building.
Just because the likes of Kos, Bowers and Marshall fucked up does not mean the idea of instituting progressive change in a party is a bad one.
Mrs K8, I love you dearly. Thank you for showing up and sharing yourself with us.
W/r/t Obama disappointments from yesterday, one interesting (if ever so slightly preachy) read is today’s Glennzilla.
Polls consistently show that Americans are more liberal than their politicians. The electorate is ready for a liberal party. So the job is to give them the chance to vote for one.
We need to focus on this we need to paint McCain as outside of Mainstream America on the issues.
Hilary and Obama both have tried and failed to get the 30%er vote by reaching out on Issues of all things when they should have been reaching out with emotions join the Crusade don’t be left out, Everyone is doing it.
30%ers are herd creatures they unite against the new and radicals because they feel it threatens their place in the herd.
So instead we tell them that they risk being Left out of the herd we ignore their ideas, we ignore them and they will want us more, George Will and Tweety love this kind of Manly behavior.
*vomit* ok maybe we should just give up on trying to get the 30%ers at all!
One thing that can put a crimp in Obama’s wagon is to cut off his funding. Start emphasizing donating to downstream liberal candidates and none to Obama. Might ring a few bells.
It should be clear by now that ID politics and personality politics are the tools of the ReichWing to win even when they should be losing
The key to them working is low voter turnout and a higher percentage of voters motivated by one or two issues and no real understanding of the majority of issues. We are only getting these numbers now because Bush has messed up the war and the economy Voters feel they have to get involved.
I think it would be instructive to look at the battle over Roe v Wade as a blueprint for how this stuff works.
First, set aside all the emotional stuff about abortion – because this is not really about babies. It IS about control.
Roe is seen by the neo-cons as the last gasp of the lib’ruls, and as a last left-over from the hated policies of the New Deal. They have been trying, so far unsuccessfully, to overturn the main decision. Failing that, they have gone to Plan B.
Plan B is a series of small wins, each one given up by the ‘libs’ as well, it’s not Roe, so I guess we can live with it. The small wins are parental notification, 24-hour waiting periods, no funding for medicaid for abortion, the physician gag rule, the requirement to show an anti-abortion film to prospective patients, restrictive clinic building guidelines that shut down many older clinics, so-called partial-birth abortion ban, and so on.
None of these small steps was seen as part of a pattern until very recently, and the war has almost been won by the neo-cons. 80% of counties in the US now have no abortion provider. Mississippi has none in the whole state. There is currently legislation pending for the next election stating that a fertilized egg is a person, and many of these have draconian criminal penalties that in some cases would require a criminal investigation of a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion).
Access to contraception is being limited – by allowing doctors to refuse to provide morning after pills to rape victims, by allowing pharmacies to refuse to dispense The Pill, and the latest, by allowing pharmacies to refuse to dispense ANY birth control methods whatever.
They will not have to overturn Roe, it is the death by a thousand cuts. Many of these small changes have been challenged in the courts, but the current SCOTUS has found all the recent ones okay – even when they contain no exceptions for the life of the mother – a provision deemed necessary by previous courts.
SO…after this lengthy screed – we need to look at the PROCESS, not the issue itself, and realize that in some cases it may be the best way for us to proceed. Take the small actions that are part of a larger plan to achieve the larger end result.
Already did today he better stop FISA cause if he can’t lead the Democrats how can he lead the country.
Does anyone know if Hilary is going to make a stand on this and filibuster? What better issue to show up the Obama people and say I was right.
(I fight for issues not people)
Beautiful reasoned rant Ian…thanks!…Carl
I think that is a great idea, Blue America is tireless in their efforts to help elect Regina Thomas in GA-12. If you have some spare pocket money – she could reaaaaly use some help. DLC poster boy of the week, Obama cut a commercial to help her opponent. Really crappy timing and he has no business getting mixed up in a PRIMARY race… especially one as important as taking out Bush Dog, John Barrow.
Great post Ian. You covered all the bases.
I always get a kick out of people talking about how liberals have done this and done that and yet we have not been governed by liberals for years and years.
Well written posting Ian. This, “The calculation is simple enough: liberal and progressive voters will hold their noses and vote for him anyway.”, is a major problem.It IS a very valid reason why internal politics don’t change in either party. I am tired of people talking about ‘wasting their votes’; it IS by voting for third party/independent candidates that citizens take back the second part of your equation about what runs politicians(money/votes).
What’s really disturbing is that those in power -whether Congressional or Executive- seem to agree that the Constitution is ‘just a piece of paper’; and the obvious lack of moral courage by those seeking election.
I’ll have to disagree with you on this point,”To get the government and the politicians you deserve you’ll have to deserve them.” Citizen’s DO have the government they deserve. And what keeps the 40 odd per cent that don’t bother to vote because they don’t think it will matter not voting is that those who do vote are unwilling to step out of their ‘comfortably numb’ existences.
If Bernie Sanders can be elected Senator in Vermont, then it shows what can be done by ‘independents’.
The slogan of the PDA(progressive democrats america) is to ‘work within and with out’ to change the Dem Party. Hopefully they have learned that in national politics, there is but one party, the corporate, and besides working from the ground up, they really need to start
pushing for public financing of all elections ala ‘Just6dollars.org’.
Those aren’t conservatives. Those are reactionaries. There are very few conservatives in the Republican party, no matter what they call themselves. Wanting to repeal the new deal and the progressive era doesn’t make you a conservative, it makes you a reactionary.
He will speak against it. There will not be enough votes. Then he will vote for the bill. Read yer Glenn Greenwald. :)
If I’m proved wrong, I’ll praise him to high heaven. But I suspect I need not worry too much.
But if they have a mutual protection racket going they need never go to jail, unless it’s for minor personal stuff (getting caught with a suitfull of money = bad, invading a country with no causus belli = ok).
Okay. I thought it was new since I was out all day. Bummer.
FDR generally wanted to be pushed. And he gave his secretaries great leeway to do things even if FDR himself wouldn’t throw his weight behind them. But even FDR did some really bad things and had to be pushed to do some of his best things.
drive-by comment (still at work) – very nice piece. I really like your use of the word “reactionary.” That word seems to have disappeared since the mid-70’s for some reason. Of course, radical applies to these folks, too, but too many people understand that to be equivalent to “leftist.” C
Can’t tell you how often I’ve ranted, “these people are NOT conservatives!”
Thanks.
Real good point the GOP is winning this under the radar.
But Nationally by failing to deliver on Abortion they have gotten votes for over 20 years and as long as the 30%ers focus on Abortion they don’t notice that the New Deal is disappearing along with their former higher standard of living.
The GOP leads the 30%ers by flaming emotions until they can’t think of anything else like the issues. The GOP encouraged the rest of us not to vote, to be fat and happy with piles of debt, lots of shiny junk, and working two jobs.
Now despite the two jobs the rest of America is weighing in.
But yes under the radar is where we really have to watch the GOP.
Your analysis seems spot on – although I think the labels for the ‘movements’ are somewhat unconventional (but so are the MSM/CW labels).
In some sense the new Dem. blue dogs are a later-day replacement for the old DixieCrats except the alignment isn’t primarily racial today, but more complex to analyze and explain. Someone needs to do a study in depth of the Dem. bluedogs/conservatives believe versus progressive/liberal Dems.
One major factor you didn’t mention as motivators of the two Dem. groups: FEAR.
After decades of battering by GOP pundits, wankers, and pols, the Dems really are suffering from ‘battered politician syndrome’. They fear being attacked in the Rovian/Swiftboating ways almost more than any other factor that influences their voting/advocacy posture.
Part of that fear of attack by opponents is based in the reality that the Dems don’t generate lies, slurs, irrelevant/strawman and other ‘red meat’ arguments as well as the GOP. And the GOP has mastered this attack method and will continue to use it until they are battered back (since you can’t call the police to arrest them as a battered spouse can).
One hates to contemplate the Dems adoping the battering tactics of the GOP, but seriously, sometimes a bully can only be taken down by kicking their ass – and this era surely needs some bloody political bullies. Turning the other cheek hasn’t worked as a political response, since when? Forever!
One other consideration: When other developed democracies are looked at, it is really hard to find governing liberal majorities? Why is that? What’s gone wrong that only the center right or right seems to get traction? Is the battered left a multi-country syndrome (with basically the same nice progressive folks being consistently having their asses kicked?)
Shame on the HuffPo. They knew what they were doing.
yes, but it’s a story on the CBS News now, not just a statement from his campaign.
we have been deconstructed and no longer live in the once known as America
I am without words, I feel helpless and lost…I do not know what there is left to want, I do not want obama as my president and do not support him
he has caved, he envisions himself with this power and he is a puppet
no differance between him and mccain, I don’t give a flying hoot who gets elected they are both corporate puppets
cboldt’s idea last night was the silent treatment. No calls, no money. Course this would take a full-on agreement among the progressive leadership…
my idea is we unelect every single democrat who voted for this bill
every one of them, this includes obama, I don’t want this man as president, he is simply a leiberman
If you are as depressed as I am today check this out. Howie at DWT has an a bit of inspiration regarding one of our success stories, Donna Edwards, here.
You know. I’m sick of headlines totally detached from the material at Huffpo.
Yes, it’s a real Bill-Clinton-”Welfare Reform”-class disappointment moment, isn’t it?
Your last sentence is the key point, even if it is excruciatingly painful.
And why is it so painful? Because for everyone who is NOT an authoritarian (no matter what the political party), the destructiveness of evil policies, greed, and incompetence are manifest in real, honest-to-God, flesh-and-blood human suffering.
I remember a biblical scholar pointing out that the archaic English translation choice, “righteousness,” when used in scripture, actually means (and would be better translated as) “JUSTICE.”
So the two beatitudes which most touch me in these times are “Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after JUSTICE, for they shall be filled” and “Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of JUSTICE, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
Not to go all religious on you, but it’s just something that burns in my heart and doubtless in the hearts of all who are so impatient to relieve the suffering of “the least among us,” regardless of religious belief or lack thereof, it’s the same impulse. And it’s the motivation which keeps us fighting on, always, IMO>
There are some macro political economic reasons: mainly that since the 70s rule one of macro policy has to not be to allow explosive growth, because that would cause oil spike inflation and that couldn’t be allowed. When you can’t allow widespread bottom/middle growth you can’t really have liberal government.
Thank you. Been trying to find the right description.
The arena where the fight can be joined and won is the House.
There is going to be a huge backlash against Miss Nancy. There are already two candidates running and although unconvential they are not nutcases..
Have a beer, some popcorn and get ready.
The real nasty stuff is just comin’ up.
The citizens?
They ain’t liking gettin’ bamboozled and we gonna see some opportunity for payback. This is it. This is as ‘fun’ as it gets.
So come on and get with it.
HuffPo is very strongly pro Obama. Have been all along. Their coverage was very pro-Obama overall. That said, the editors are clearly split on this one — the way to tell is look at pictures. They used horrible pictures for Clinton through most of the primary, and Obama got a really bad one on Friday for FISA.
The question you pose is, essentially: Shall the D’s renounce their integrity, or their effectiveness? Let’s try to find a different way of framing it, it would be just too depressing to accept that as a non-false choice.
So you want to give McSain all the Supreme Court nominations for the next four years?
That’s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the damage he could do.
And much love to you! I miss being here amongst the Firepups, and even now have to leave the computer. Energy is sorely limited, and physical therapy (as usual) awaits.
But I thank you for lifting my heart!
I share your grief.
When I start to feel despondent, I try to imagine what President Gore would have done. Prolly would have been a smidge better than the chimp.
and they do the same thing with ANWR
In other countries their center right is to the left of John Edwards:)
Heartbreaker.
But we can’t waste time grieving it, have to stay focused and active. Gotta complain faster and louder, starting NOW!
I think one problem in the ‘liberal majority’ argument is that most other democracies in the west are governed under Parliamentary systems where there are as few as 3 or 4 or as many as 17 different viable political parties. In these systems, no single party ever has a ‘majority’ and thus, governing coalitions are put together that may include some pretty diverse groups from all ends of the spectrum.
When one of these coalitions falls apart – presto, new elections happen within just a few months (like 3) and the government can be replaced.
Just look at the Italians!
The Israeli Knesset is one such, and the governing coalition can include hard-liners who want to just kill all the Palestinians, and others who think they should give the Palestinians back some land in exchange for peace.
Also, you have to be very careful about terms, because as our Aussie and English friends will tell you, liberal and conservative mean very different things in their political systems.
Thanks.
I probably pulled the trigger a little too quickly.
At least they’re drawing attention to the issue. That’s a big improvement over the legacy media (except for Olbermann, who has been terrific).
FWIW, I supported Feingold, then Edwards. After that it was whomever was the Democratic party’s nominee.
Ian wrote:
I accept this statement as basically true, at least to the extent that it seems the surest way to get there. The question that comes to my mind, though, is how do we keep that infrastructure from just becoming the same sort of self-perpetuating monsters that we already have at least two of?
I don’t buy for a second that we’re just better than they are. In the end, all people are subject to the same temptations. Conservatives will tell you that their politicians don’t represent their values very well, either.
Bullseye. Thank you.
Sorry I missed you. Hope therapy goes well.
great post, there.
about as good a case as can be made for the ‘reform the (D) Party from within tendency’.
It’s good to see the Axiom of the Least Worst laid out by a frontpager.
unlikely that it would be hosted here, but I would love to see analysis of logistics and strategies compared for third party coalitions and Independents, leaving the mainline Donkey party by the wayside, while voting with and supporting real Progressive (D)’s when possible.
because:
somewhere the assumption seems to be that this party has to be the (D) party. Maybe they are too far gone, too corrupt in structure and bylaws, etc, capable of wielding carrots and sticks to neutralize real Progressives who do make it to Congress.
My point is – both tasks are very difficult marathon tasks – before setting off on the journey, at least see if there might, might be an easier route.
And a formation that can raise $200,000 plus in under a week will have some choices as to routes.
This is an Obamacrat meme and is essentially meaningless.
First, what makes you think The One is gonna be better on SCOTUS picks than MsSame? Do you know who Douglas Kmiec is?
Second, the fight for SCOTUS is over. With Barkey’s help we lost. The corporatist wing of the ReThugs has got the court they want and they ain’t changin’ it to butter up no Xtian Death Cultists.
Third, reread the first two.
I don’t think he’s talking about a ‘new party’ as infrastructure. The current system works for the neo-cons because of think-tanks formulating strategy and media that spouts all the doctrine and spin the think-tanks come up with.
On the left, we don’t fund think tanks the way the right does, and our media, poor Air America is pretty much it. By infrastructure, we have to start doing the stuff that will help us get where they are:
A) Develop and strategize an overarching plan
B) Develop and implement a public information campaign
C) Repeat as many times as necessary.
I think it’s inevitable. But I think it’s a good 30 years out and a fight for another bunch of folks (I’ll be 70 by then). People is people and institutions and movements ossifiy. But we don’t even have much of an insurgency going yet, let alone institutions.
I wasn’t trying to do the final coat of paint (framing), but I recognize that there are some moral choices involved in adopting your oppositions sleazy tactics.
Does the question boil down to should we accept a slow slide into totalitarianism, or realize this is a war – and wars are always ugly?
If Obama really HAS leadership potential, he’d say: “no retroactive immunity, no future warrantless wiretapping/evesdropping without a warrant or court review within 48 hours. And then he’d say, I will filibuster the FISA bill, and as the probable nominee of the Dem. party I call on all Senators to join me in the filibuster on FISA”. Offer the party a choice: join me or repudiate me before I’m formally nominated. That’s leadership!
Respectfully (and I mean that) disagree.
Your solution is to drive what we have over a cliff and blame it on the nominee.
No thanks.
No but Obama can wait a few months for any cash from me. Or he could be smart admit he made a mistake (which in my mind would prove he is 100% better than Bush) and stop FISA he is after all the head of the Democratic party and more importantly their biggest fund raiser so he can stop FISA if he wants too!.
Steny and Nancy do respect the cash more than they respect us voters, they call it compromise Nancy’s daughter wrote a book on it I believe.
Great essay, Ian. What we’re experiencing in Alaska this past few weeks, especially in the shaping of the AK-AL Democratic Primary race between very progressive Diane Benson and Blue Dog running dog and Rahm Emanuel PAC puppet Ethan Berkowitz, is quite saddening to me. The AFL-CIO endored Berkowitz late Thursday, along with Anchorage Mayor Mark Begich, who is running to unseat Ted Stevens.
There’s a battle going on in the Alaska GOP between a more progressive, younger, less big-oil friendly wing, led by Governor Sarah Palin, that is taking over the Alaska GOP from the old guard.
The young, more progressive wing of the Alaska Democrats, however, is being beaten back at every turn by outside money, with Emanuel leading the way, and by politicians overly eager to make deals with cruise ship companies, big oil and the coming era of mega mines.
I don’t necessarily think it has to be the D party to carry the progressive message/banner. But building a new party is a very long and difficult task given all the institutional barriers to one in this country. And the mistake that most people who want to do this is to try and run a Presidential candidate with no down-ticket people.
The best way is to start at the bottom with the city council and/or the county board of supervisors or whatever, and then as those people build credibility for themselves as well as for their party, they move to the state level, and from there, the federal one.
There have been individual candidates who have managed to make the leap – but that is more identity politics than systemic change.
It has to start at the bottom!
there is no differance between obama and mccain, obama will get corporate judges in easier then mccain will
absolute power corrupts and obama has already corrupted himself
I want mccain, we will reign him in,we won’t reign in obama
I am now endorsing mccain
By focusing on policy. Policy and principles that every progressive candidate must adhere to. That’s you do it.
No ID politics.
No cults of personality.
A progressive government would be a government of laws and policy not men.
Sound familiar.
Step one: Stop the Obamanation from being selected. Not too late.
I say this because no issue I have blogged about has attracted the traffic that FISA does.
Americans DO NOT WANT THE TELECOMS SPYING!
Look at what happened today. Barkey no more than opened his yapper this morning to say, ‘Hey, compromise..I’m down wit dat.’ And now this afternoon he’s trying to walk it back!
Kos stated FOR THE RECORD THAT ANY DEM WHO SUPPORTED COMPROMISE WOULD BE PRIMARIED LAST WEEK! CheetoLand is melting the ‘inevitability’ of Barkey…
IS NO MORE!
Our blogs beat their think tanks after all Bush has been wrong about everything and all of his ideas came from those right wing think tanks.
Still I agree with everything you said.
Neither was I. I was referring to the infrastructures that already exist. Both, and I think there are two even though the Republican-owned one is much larger, seem to be more interested in their own preservation than in any real interests of their “constituents”.
Ian’s point is pretty much what I expected. I just keep hoping there’s a way we can avoid creating a problem for the next generations that is essentially the same one we have now.
And just HOW do you propose ‘reining in’ McCain?
We haven’t been able to do that with Bush and look at his popularity, the non-existent election margins, etc.
Please explain…
So you want to finish off the country? It’s laughable to think that we could rein in McC.
You are talking about putting a man in the WH who hasn’t a clue about anything. He has no moral character, is dumb as a post, and quite probably senile. Stand on your righteous principles and go down in flames. That’s not a plan. It’s suicide.
So you don’t know who Douglas Kmiec is?
Because you have totally misstated my point. It’s Obama who’d driving off the cliff by….
Being Obama.
Find out what the hell is going on before you start characterizing what I’m saying pal.
think about it, with a democratic senate and house mccain is harmelss
obama is gonna reck this country, his power will be limitless
I support mccain
That’s an interesting inversion of the calculus that I hadn’t previously considered: Would an overwhelming D Congress prevent a President McCain from getting away with anything. Gotta think about that for a while.
OK, done thinking. Five words: Unitary Executive, Department of Justice. Sorry, I’m out.
there is no “reigning in”, he has to pass through congress and the senate and we are unelecting everyone who voted for this bill
That’s true, our blogs do beat their think tanks. Every time.
Since when does the House and Senate have anything to do with it?
Signing statements, Executive orders, the Unitary Executive….
I could go on. And how do you propose to stop all that? Bush has used all this stuff and more and we haven’t been able to stop him from doing ANYTHING!
Explain how putting Barkey in the office of POTUS differs.
A short few sentences about Douglad Kmiec are required. Then contrast Obama’s stated plans for SS, Iraq and sustainable energy differ from McSame’s.
Explain Barkey’s votes in the Senate where according to Progressive Punch he ranks in the 40s behind:
DiFi
Ben Nelson
Jim Webb
Be substantive. Use quotes and links.
While Obama would nominate corporatist judges, it seems reasonable that they might be less, oh how can I put it, regressive than the last couple? I know that’s not much to hang one’s hat on, but it’s pretty clear that the current Congress won’t stand up to McCain no matter what he does. What we will have in 2009 will be very similar to this Congress.
McCain also strikes me as at least fitfully crazy. Literally.
I’ll take the con man over the crazy man. Haven’t I written that before?
Obamacrat meme and is essentially meaningless.
So is Hilary going to filibuster FISA so we can get enough to time to create a media storm on the issue? We know the Clintons bailed on Zoe Baird for the Supreme Court because she had an immigrant nanny what makes you think that she would do any better?
And yes if Hilary uses her influence to stop FISA I”ll push for her as VP.
What though has Obama done thats so bad before FISA came up that has you so angry?
Yes, our blogs win hands down. But the problem is that there are 5000 blogs and each one is chipping away with their teensy hammer and chisel. We need to coordinate, and get a master plan – known as a huge sledge hammer and then we can do something!
Actually, respectfully again, it’s not so much your outright assertion, but it’s logical conclusion.
In case you haven’t noticed, there is no love lost for this predicament.
That’s because the ‘Democrats’ in the House and Senate are really….
Republican lites. Just like…
Barkey.
And we can replace them.
With folks like real progressives but if we let a FAUX DINO like Barkey into the WH.
Kiss yer ‘democracy’ goodbye.
I mean this guy calls himself a ‘Democrat’ and he doesn’t want to count all the votes?
That is what we said about Bush after the last election:)
Me too, cuz we’re in a war right now, and will still be in 2009. I’d prefer to have the guy who at least knows who we are fighting instead of the one that has to have his mini-me by his side whispering in his ear, and still can’t get it right even a couple of hours later!
New post up by Neiwert. NY Times makes cattle call for wingnut Floyd Brown.
Do you have some sort of special inside information that says Kmiec is going to be an Obama SCOTUS appointee? Or are you just speculating based on Kmiec’s admitted support for Obama? Support which caused a priest to deny him communion and got the priest put on leave.
Oh please, and just how is McCain better?
Sure, but I think it was meant in the context of serving as idea farms, not so much the activity-organizing aspect. I do think the best ideas from the blogs do tend to bubble up and find their way into progressive policy, even if the coordination of community action is not always 100% effective. Gotta think something up before you can go out and do it.
yea, well the republicans will support impeachment, the democrats will and I will
I do not want this man president with more power then bush
sorry, absolute power corrupts and he has already corrupted himself
can you say worse then bush?
I can
I come here for news and ideas I watch the news just to see what Bush is up to.
Uhm…
No has impeached this Pres so how do you figure anyone would do that anymore? Especially since this one has gotten all these nice laws passed so all his ‘former’ lawbreaking is now legal?
Actually, I would love ACitizen to address this question DIRECTLY.
No lateral “well, since Obama isn’t Progressive enough” talk – and the name-calling is lovely, but it distracts from whatever cogent argument you have that suggests that Senator McCain would be better. So please – address this question directly.
the republicans can regain the house if they show a backbone
good, no party can hold all this power, obama proves it
Excellent observation. I come here for ideas too, and interpretation of events. I use traditional media to get a fix on who’s messaging what. I use the web outlets of the tradMedia plus the indieNews sites for my news.
Ideas and interpretation are this community’s great strengths.
While I’d prefer Clinton as the nominee, that’s only because she’s more experienced than Obama, and smarter about foreign affairs. Other than that, I see precious little difference.
Anyone who would be inclined to make a difference dropped out by March, or never ran in the first place.
Yes, right you are. I like the idea of the blogs ‘bubbling up’ the ideas cuz that’s what we are really good at. I think if we can sustainably fund something like Rockridge Institute with good people like George Lakoff who know how to ‘frame’ issues and aren’t necessarily advocating positions, we could do well.
The organization would have to be much more coordinated than it is right now – otherwise you have all these little funds here and there and each accomplishes a small task but it would be better if we had the Plan B I described in my earlier post.
Lakoff himself said the problem with the left is that they don’t fund consistently and over the long-term. So ‘our’ institutions spend most of their time scrambling around trying to find money to keep the doors open instead of doing the work they are being paid to do. And that is exactly why Rockridge is now closed.
the republicans have the balls to do it and they will
Well, the Republicans HAVE held all the power for six of the last seven years – and look what that got us!
And now you want to say the Dems can’t have a turn because you are upset at Obama over this one thing? So I assume that if you elect McCain you really DON’T want the Republicans to get control of the House and Senate by that reasoning?
What puzzles me about the current Democratic cowardice is that it’s not 2002. If anything, the 2006 election should have shown the Dems that the Republican fear card doesn’t work.
I can’t imagine that Congressional offices have been deluged over the past few months with e-mails and postcards pleading for passage of FISA and articulating fear of “another attack.”
As someone said above, Obama wouldn’t lose many votes by coming out STRONG against this Frankenstein, nor would any Dem. It’s just not a red meat issue any more.
Thus the likelihood that the more sinister motives ARE accurate.
Ian
The nation needs a safety net. California the 9th largest economy in the world hit 6.8% unemployment. There are some policies that will benefit business. Taking the healthcare cost of of business will lower their cost balance sheet. Getting the large homeless population off of the street and productive in the service industry will bring in more tax dollars for government services. The Green energy industry needs to be funded instead od Big Old Dirty oil.
Can’t we have an agenda expressed in a way that we get more political buy in? Thanks foir sticking with it. We need a wise economist Bernanke seems to be out of moves except giving big biz more welfare.
Yeah, first they have to catch him with his pants down.
when the sheep see a wolf dressed in their skin, the smart sheep get rid of him
obama has corrupted himself and I am done supporting him
I agree with you. And I think this irrational fear on the part of the Beltway economists about a teensy little bit of inflation is way overblown, and as a result has resulted in monetary policies that drive all the other stuff – unemployment, trade deficit, oil price spikes, food price spikes, etc.
I also think that it is unrealistic to expect that this nation can or should try to sustain a GDP growth rate over 2% forever. I think we need to be happy with that number and work on transitioning to the ideas you presented.
NOBODY can have their turn, we do NOT need a despot with more power then bush
Your analogy does not work. Sheep are not smart – by definition.
You should have thought of that when Bush was acquiring all these nice new powers!
I am amazed at your comments. I just don’t get it. You didn’t get just exactly what you wanted from Obama so you are ready to throw the whole thing out. You don’t have the right to decide that my granddaughter can’t have an abortion if she wants one, nor that my Medicare will be cut, or that people in Detroit and other places won’t have jobs. How selfish. How’s your face going to look without your nose?
No Bush made mistakes on he war by loosing it, on the economy and on everything. So if you make enough mistakes then despite having the the White House, Supreme Court, House and Senate etc Power can’t save you.
And after all those mistakes the GOP has more chance of winning the WH than the House this election.
That and doesn’t McCain support FISA, corporate judges etc?
At least with Obama we will get judges who believe in Civil Rights, Voting, Abortion rights, and I’m pretty sure equal pay and safer working conditions after all all those issues do touch African Americans a bit more than most.
I buy the idea that there is knowledge of a forthcoming attack.
In which case, with all this frickin’ hoovered communications stored in escrow, why don’t they just go out and stop the damn thing? It’s “Bin Laden Determined To Attack Inside US” all over again.
Huh… Actually, if they know there’s going to be an attack, and they can’t go out and stop it even with the benefit of all the expansive, massive, illegal snooping they’ve already got in place… then wouldn’t that be proof positive that IT DOESN’T WORK?
A couple of the guys from Rockridge started a blog called Hivethrive. They discuss a sustainable and or green idea each day – and it’s really neat. You might want to check it out.
http://www.hivethrive.com
Oh, dear.
As someone who didn’t support Obama in the primary, I have a real pr0blem with the number of people who are looking to dump him now.
The man has always been a centrist. He’s never made any effort to hide that.
That said, while this whole thing has been terribly dispiriting, it doesn’t change anything. We still have a Democratic candidate and we have John McCain promising the store to the most reactionary factions of the Republican party. He means it.
So, we have a choice, between someone who isn’t who we’d like him to be and someone who is everything we want to keep out of the White House.
I don’t see that we have any choice about who we support, and I’ve been reading in these threads for a while now that Democratic voters need to grow up and support the nominee.
Well, yeah.
That’s the problem, they have all this information – just no knowledge. They are scooping up all this data and have forgotten that in order for it to be useful, it must be ANALYZED. And therein lies the rub.
Last time it was that the data was there again – but nobody to put all the puzzle pieces together.
This time, same problem only a million times worse.
Thank you for saying that. I am really tired of the “I’ll hold my breath until I turn blue if I don’t like something” theme. We are adults and politics is an ugly, dirty business. You play the hand you get and make demands when you get the best person in office.
Ditto your comments. Obama was not my first choice. Or even my second. But there he is. And I will NOT vote for more of Bush only worse McCain. Period. Even if Obama turns out to be the grinch who stole christmas he’s still better than McCain. Period.
Clinton Endorses Obama
Yes. Thanks to HRC playing the “electability” card over and over again, what did you expect?
Wrong.
The more liberals we can elect to the Senate, the better chance we have to impact Obama’s selections on the front end.
Grow up?
This bunch?
Be careful what you wish for.
;~P
I completely agree about the cash. I don’t plan on contributing any more to his campaign. I will, however, vote for him.
So I’m out in the dark here. I thought Mr. Kmiec was a constitutional law professor, a catholic who happens to be pro-life, but who endorsed Obama anyway.
Anything else I should know?
Didn’t your momma ever tell ya that you will be known by your friends?
Lieberman
Rezko
Wright
Auchi
Jesus said it also and guess what?
A lot of folks think that way.
And guess who’s been traveling with Barkey’s posse lately?
Hey! I don’t have to have someone hit me with the loss of my 4th amendment rights wise ME up. I took Barkey’s measure over a year ago when he spoke in Oakland, CA.
All Hat No Cattle.
Look out, s/he will be callin’ ya a chump next. *g*
Oh, and a fine example of how you can disagree with someone on one thing but don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.
That’s about my take.
And I don’t see him on the fast track to SCOTUS anyway.
my $0.02
Who said he was or is?
Are you telling me that Barkey is your guy? That his taking a big shit, now recalled…that’s going to be an interesting walk back, on the Constitution is ‘acceptable to me…’.
Is that what you’re saying?
I’m done being a concern trol
I don’t know what I want, all I know is obama has allready proven he is a corporate puppet
I am on record, I do not want him my president, I won’t clutter this great board with that opinion anymore, I will still be a progressive, I will not endorse mccain, I will however no longer defend obama on the internets against mccain, I have no preferance and would not mind an impotent president right now
ok, done concern trolling, no more of this from me
Oh, and he was denied communion.
That’s about it
Hey DrBong! Love your .02!
I don’t know that anyone is on the fast track yet – still have to get through the veep-stakes first!
LOL!
I am sure that is of gigantic concern to all of us non-Catholics out here in the hinterlands!
Are we now going to start vetting the people who endorse Obama? I am stunned at the length we have strayed in the last few days. What happened to all that unity stuff? And the good of the country stuff? What does it mean to be a Democrat?
He works for Ken Starr at Pepperdine.
Thank you.
Yeah, this bunch. They care.
I have great hopes for them.
Oh-oh! That means he IS Ken Starr, right?
That’s why I keep coming back.
Whoa a second there!
Yes, I DO know who Douglas Kmiec is.
And, I see he has made some claims as to HIS interpretation of O’s position on abortion, which I would take with a HUUUUGE grain of salt.
So, what is your point?
Dr. Murphy is upstairs!
Good News Under Bad Rulers: Citizen Power Delivers When Our National “Leaders” Sell Us Out
Who is this “Ken Starr” of whom you speak?
Zackly!
No one since February did more than HRC to push Obama and the Democratic party to the right.
I also haven’t seen HRC criticize Obama’s response to the FISA amendment.
LOL.
Everyone works for someone. I hate McDonalds but I don’t hate the people who work there.
Bingo!
Thank you!
Well….
Mr. Kmiec is a noted legal scholar….
No question of that.
His service under St. Ronnie and Bush I, as head Office of Legal Counsel, testifies to that. Know what that is and what they do? And of course his son clerking for Justice Roberts is just the icing on the cake.
Just an average guy.
Yep.
Speaks before the Federalist Society like every six months.
Say, what do you guys do all day?
Watch baseball.
I haven’t been a Democrat since David Brower, a founding member of the Sierra Club, said:
from his renunciation of voting for the least worst at
http://www.earthisland.org/eij…..icles.cfm?
several have objected to my calling FDL a (D) captured blog, and I now regard it as an open question.
many people hold an opposition to state murder above loyalty to some political faction, though of course many reverse this as well.
I apologize ACitizen.
I fell into your trap.
I criticized HRC to defend Obama. It’s a slippery slope. Neither of them are liberals and a liberal wasn’t going to get elected in 08.
I’m supporting the Democratic candidate for President, warts and all.
Would that be the Ken Starr that wasted Millions upon Millions of U. S Citizens’ taxpayer $$’s sniffing panties?
I forgot to turn the snark on…
I think that’s the crux of the whole brouhaha.
There’s no more pretending that the current nest of Dems are going to change anything.
The future is up to those of us willing to become more involved in the Party than we have been. It’s a matter of replacing the old guard at every level with folks who have a vision of the future, avoiding the pitfalls and temptations of the past.
Barkey is now, as I understand it, trying to deny that he found the FISA compromise ‘acceptable…’ Seems all those folks yellin’ ‘Not another dime for that asshole…’, you did see those comments did you not, got thru where appeals to principle failed.
Barkey luvs him some Benjamins as does Dean and Brazile.
I don’t have loyalty to a political faction. I have a loyalty to my core beliefs that I have held for my entire 74 years. Trust me, my beliefs would probably make most people look like they were standing in the center.
Yup. Produced a report that would have been labeled as pornography under a brand new law just passed by the legislature six months previous.
Cute, huh?
Sorry I can only lead the horse to water…
Not make it drink.
You think Kmiec endorsing Obama and flying around on the Magic Man’s plane doesn’t mean anything?
And I submit you don’t know jack about Kmiec read my link above.
well stated.
LokyWoky thanks for the link I saved after a quick look. Earth:The Sequel is out and has the data on the green technology to reverse climate change. People still don’t understand that the weather conditions that have prevailed over centuries enabled us to stablize a lifestyle. With that gone the way we do business will change or the present biosphere will be gone as it is disappearing in an accelerated way.
You are right sustainable growth demand has to be met. Less consumption, smaller housing less carbon energy, “Earth;The Sequel” describes this as the new economic direction venture capital is taking, who they are and how the conversion occurs.
The manipulation of financial markets by speculators leveraging riks 30:1 has eroded capital. We will see a lot of financials fail. Short term bond money hit 9.5% this week. The cost of doing business is inflating as well as the commodities. “Reactionaries and Conservaties know that the well is drying up. I think people like Ian have some solutions if packaged right can be sold in the next administration as the change drum beat grows.
Housing cost percentage of income has grown under Bushco, while he promised more ownership we now have less than in 2000.
Unemployment will drive political change and give it momentum. I don’t see conservatives gaining the Presidency or more seats in congress.
We need to sell our ideas better and convert some of the blue dogs as well as well as elect progressives. It is a natural pathway of least resistance. The reactionary financial policies that ley Bid Dog restate bottom lines and do pixie ust accounting has to be stopped. Big Dog cannot have anymore perks for taking industry abroad, our good jobs and polluting the Oceans at a different source.
Funny definition of ‘Democrat’ you have.
But it’s your choice to make.
Do you think they’ll count all the votes?
Whoops. Hillary, while not my idea of ‘progressive’ ranks in the 20s at Progressive Punch.
Check it out. Lots of FACTS to think about.
Thanks BB, I’ll check it out. I’m also in favor of the electra-net – where small local producers feed power into the grid after supplying themselves and possibly a neighbor or two. Buy local as much as possible. Pay attention to where stuff comes from. Get active on local planning commissions for better cities.
Lots of really good ideas, and small communities are leading the way – we just have to get more of them and more participation by individuals. I don’t think the feds are going to be much help no matter who is in charge – 90% of the change is going to happen or need to be done at the local level.
let’s see if we win the last fight in the senate, let’s see what obama does to get immunity out of the bill
I can still hope, I can be wrong about the man and perhaps his people read these boards and will inform him he has made a huge mistake
of all politicians obama needs corporate support least of all, let’s hope he becomes his own man and takes a stand for our constitution
I have not given up hope, I am just weary,,,time will tell
So, I am still not hearing a point.
Just say it, WHAT IS YOUR POINT ABOUT KMIEC AND OBAMA?
‘Cause I’m not seeing one, just a lot of opaque attempts at innuendo.
We are all weary but now is not the time to stop. I have sent Obama 6 e-mails in the last 3 days both before and after the vote on FISA. I am angry with him and told him so but this is too important for our country to back off now. I think we have come pretty far this year – especially with fund raising here in the blogs.
perris, we’re all tired right now, and discouraged. We thought we had fought this thing to a standstill last fall. Twice. And Obama was only one very junior vote in the Senate at that time.
We were wrong about resting on our laurels. We needed to better understand just what the stakes were and how the game was being played. If nothing else, we all learned a lot through these last couple of days. Next time we will be a little better prepared. And then we will win.
You are correct, the fight isn’t over yet – there is still the Senate to get through – and we’ve been tossing ideas of how to try to win that one.
But if we lose, we’ll nurse our wounds, gripe and complain like all get out, and then pick up our stuff and gear up for the next fight. Because there will be one. And another one after that, and another one after that. No matter who is in charge.
I just don’t know what to say about this article. So many thoughts. Good job, David!
For one thing, if it’s been for the last 30 years, i guess that explains why we were so able to kick out Nixon, and the structure you put forth, including and especially the corruption of the media, is why we are so stuck with Bush, can get NO WHERE getting rid of him.
And, my second thought is that this is talking about different political idiologies in the the US now, what does that have to do with eviscerating the Constitution??? Obama’s stance on telecom immunity is AGAINST THE LAW, or the law as it was. I guess I’m simple on this, but that just sux, and if I wanted to vote for someone I pegged to be a criminal, well, let’s just say I’d have voted differently and supported different people than those whom I have stood for, especially lately.
*sigh*
i feel defeated. i think it’s cause I (we) are. I’ll think some more and try to return to the fight, but right now, and all day, I’m depressed and don’t see much in the way of hope. Obama’s statement was just the final blow after the BIG VOTE yesterday in the House.
I’m seriously considering looking for another country. New Zealand? maybe.
That’s not much of a solution, I WANT MY COUNTY BACK. i am homesick.
I’m pretty disillusioned here in Colorado.
I am trained as a lawyer. I bet I know more about Kmiec than you do.
You ever hear of him before, oh, say, the last year? I have known of him and his work and views for years. Don’t much care for him/it.
But, no, his “endorsing” Obama does not mean what you think it means.
AND you still haven’t said what you think it means. Your snarkish sarcasm is not an argument. Sure as hell not persuasive. Just spit out your meaning.
and thanks to anyone who read that.
(for listening)
you guys are THE greatest of the great on tha intrawebz.
and David, thank you.
Great article.
Ian.
Ian.
Ian.
sorry,
i sped read thru FDL today to catch up, cause I’ve been too bummed to even be on the puter.
I’m sorry Ian.
Great job.
sorry.
Hi siri,
I don’t think we are defeated. We may have lost a battle, but we have definitely NOT lost the war. We are still strong and still willing to fight and we have.not.lost.the.war.
We’re all discouraged, but we can’t quit now. I hear you about moving though – I have a great-aunt in Canada and it’s just a hop-skip-jump from Montana….
But for now, I am feeling like I want to stay and fight. This country, as an idea, is too good an idea to give up on just yet. She has taken a huge battering these past seven years, but she’s not completely gone yet.
Absolutely. it is a bottom up process. The key is sustaunability defined as kiving within your resources. These ideas were available in the 60’s with organic growing buying locally. The farmers markets are a successfull example. Water resources have to be reused. 40% of domestic water is greywater that cab be used for landscape.
We are on our way just haven’t arrived. Yhank you for more resources. We hewre are involved in local policy for sustainablity and have elected more who are in favor, the good ol boys are not reelected this round.
Spot on as always Ian. Thanks :)
Well, perhaps I’m epu’d.
Siri – I skimmed your post.
Hang in there – we will live to fight another day.
And with that – my work day is done, so I am OUTA HERE!!
No more arguing – no doubt a good thing. *g*
Yeah, we just got a bunch of ‘more’ progressive peeps on our city council this go-round too. Every little bit helps!
Sounds like you’ve got some good things going. I love farmers markets – we have two here. Yummm!
It’s a joke to the Rethugs here, but our city council just passed an ordinance a few months ago allowing raising chickens within the city limits. They think it’s funny and a waste of time, but it speaks to sustainability. Especially since we have a huge Hmong community here.
Progress, yay!
Take care all, I’m off!
later loky
In New York, the smaller parties either run their own candidates or endorse candidates from the major parties. Is that something specific about New York state law? Because it seems like that’s a useful approach. I don’t know if that’s true in practice, though – maybe some New Yorkers could comment on that.
I’ve lived (and voted) all over the country and I believe that is unique to NY state. Although I would tend to vote for say Mario Cuomo on the Liberal Party ballot line instead of the Democratic Party ballot line just for the hell of it.
Yes, Twain is right, now is EXACTLY the wrong time to stop. We’ve gotta put any paralyzing disappointment into a box for a few days more, until the Senate FISA works resolves. It is NOT necessarily over as far as they’re concerned — unless WE quit now.
So just don’t.
Please tell her state Senator Regina Thomas (GA-12) needs her help in the worst way. Can you call your friends in the HRC campaign and explain that the GA primary is July 15. Can she get down to GA and campaign with Regina?
That would mend a lot of fences with liberals.
Thank you.
After the recent FISA disaster. I am having even more doubts about the Democratic Party’s 50 state strategy. I know it sounds get and looks good on a map. But what good are more Democratic’s that don’t hold Democratic views? As the blue dogs grow in numbers our party continues to diminish. They are a one reason that cutting the funding in Iraq has never been an issue, Impeachmment was off the table, and now FISA. So in the end we have a majority but no principles.
Have you sent any money to progressive/liberal candidates, such as Regina Thomas in GA-12 to unseat the blue dog, Barrow?
Siri –
I know I’m really late getting back into this thread, but if you poke your head in here, can I just give you a virtual hug? …{{{{ siri }}}…
It’s going to be a really, really long slog for all of us who love this country dearly. There will be some truly awful days to get through, as it will be a marathon and not a sprint. I’m glad you came here to vent.
Love to you and all the Firepups!
(((Mrs. K8))) nice to see ya
Suzanne!!!! {{{{{ mwah! }}}}}
You were so sweet to think of me when you posted last night’s invitation to lurkers. I didn’t get to read that until today, but it certainly buoyed my spirit to read it, and to see you reach out so warmly to newcomers.
We (Mr. K8 and I) have been having lots of things go wrong lately. He had a crush injury of his hand, for one thing, but lots of other stuff, too. I haven’t been able to get back to the Lake for so long, and whenever I do, I haven’t the time to hang around.
But I miss you and all the Pups, and thank you for all the wonderful work you do here, and for your shining spirit.
i’m so sorry to hear that… healing positive thoughts and prayers for the K8 family
everytime i have a daffodil come up in my yard, i think of you – and i’m so glad you were buoyed – look what you started (laughing)
Thanks for making other aware of that Loo Hoo.
I tire of folks just plain DUMPING on Obama for any thing they can find.
You want Obama, or you want McCain?
We get Obama elected, we try and take out Reid, Hoyer and Pelosi.
Then, if Obama don’t do our bidding as we elect him, we work on him (actually this will be a long, ongoing process for the whole term, no doubt, as we pursue criminal charges against the Bush Admin across the board, and try and restore some legitimacy to the judiciary and all the OTHER departments.
So, again, thanks Loo Hoo for instillin some MODICUM of hope in all the negatives.
And folks, if yer not for Obama, ALL THE WAY, you’ll end up with McCain.
Who in here is a reactionary and want’s 30 MORE years of their crap?
Harumph, as always.
Fuckin’A right, Larue.
Great post, and I don’t think it’s gonna take much more for the general public to really start pushing HARD about basic stuff like prices, homes, health care, food and shelter yadda yadda yadda.
And that PUSH, if we all get behind it, is all an Obama kinda leader might need to become a smidgen or more of an FDR, instead of a defeatist shill.
I’d rather PUSH for Obama, than PUSH against McCain.
Please, people.
With ANY luck, there WILL be an election, and I can’t fathom any of you in here giving it to McCain out of spite over Obama’s failure to live up to progressive sensibilities.
THAT went out the door when we let Kuch and Edwards get HAMMERED, silenced and reduced to nothing.
A little SPINE here, people, please.
We can hammer Obama AFTER it all . . .
As my fav tenor in bluegrass/newgrass or ANY genre of all time used to say:
“Bless yer heart and all your vital organ’s.”
-John Duffey, RIP hoss of all grassified hosses (well, next to St. Mike Dobro)
*G*
FRESH AIR!! *G* Bless yer heart . . you know . . . *G*
So yer saying you’d prefer the return of HRC?
Please . . . . cuz that’s ALL you’d have if you keep beating on Obama PREelection!!!
He’s the pick, the other choice is McCain. And more Bush/Cheney.
Harumph.
Rein. Rein is the term when you want to shorten the leash or the REINS!
Reign is the ruling of the king, leader, etc.
Now, how do you propose you will REIN in McShame?
I mean, I really wanna hear THIS one . . . thanks in advance.
Yeah, that dem senate and house has sure proven to be a real lifeline for us progressives, hasn’t it . . . (rollshiseyes)
The dem’s, despite ‘06, are all COMPLICIT in the gin up to Iraq, were behind the the push into Afghanistan which was all about Cheney being told to CHENEY hisself by the Talibani on that natural gas pipeline Russia and German and France had signed onto.
The dem’s bought the false intel on Iraq.
The dem’s on the Senate and House Intel Committee’s were PRIVY, PART AND PARCEL TO WAR CRIMES!
Then, they were part and parcel to rendition, torture.
Then, they were part and parcel to domestic spying.
So, dem’s in Congress? Not so good. Don’t count on them for anything.
FISA is NOT about the telco’s, it’s about saving Pelosi, Reid, SciFi, Hoyer and all the rest of them from prosecution.
Now, Obama? Or McCain? A dem congress will NOT do any thing to rein in McCain.
So, it’s like, faulty logic to use a preverted and corrupted Congress, to make a case AGAINST Obama, before he’s even elected.
Harumph.
The Democratic nomination is in for one more debate on the floor of our Senate and this should beat the thriller from Minalla. In one corner the peoples apparent choice Obama and in the other just back from vacation, Hillary and the final test is fisa and as they say it ain’t over till the fat lady sings or the votes are casted in Denver. Let’s see some blood on the Senate floor as the reactionaries defend unconstitutional acts by this administration. Hillary looks like she has nothing to lose and everything to gain. She leads the charge and wins the fight the super delegates sure would have something to think about.
The real question is does representative democracy work any more? Can it be fixed? If not, what replaces it? We may be ready for direct electronic democracy, but most people believe the Tory arguments against representative democracy in 1776-people are too dumb, disinterested etc.
In the meantime we need to build an internet structure. The thing about electric technology is it can go in many directions at the same time. One of the first orders of business is to turn a concept like Myspace into Ourspace. Instead of comments we have Wikipedia like articles on things like FISA with the public at large contributing the information they have. Perhaps the site can be open sourced. I’m not a programmer so I don’t have the slightest idea of what is involved.