So what now? I can only send the same fax so many times.

Boxturtle (Frustrated)

Christy,

Was watching last night when Turley said this. Made me think of you …and the other firepups.

Would not know what to do, how to engage on this issue without your hard work, research and compelling writing.

So a big tip of the hat and thanks to you.

Wish I had an answer that was a lock on fixing things, but I don’t. Am working on it — talking to a number of folks this weekend, trying to come up with something. But the fight will be in the Senate this week — so that’s where the effort needs to be concentrated. But how to best do it? Still working on that.

If anyone has any ideas, I’m all ears…

(And thanks for sending all those FAXes!)

Thanks, hon — it’s been an immensely frustrating coupla weeks. (Not the least of which because both of my in-laws are in the ICU at the moment, and we’ve been frantically trying to deal with that as well. Feel like I’ve had the phone growing out of my ear for two straight weeks…)

btw, while I’m thinking of it, how is your mom doing?

hypnosis?

Christy,

I think we have you all to thank, for your tireless leadership, stewardship, and other ships.

We will have your back, no matter what.

Ohhh, can we lose weight, too? *g*

For my part I post on Oback Obama’s site my .02 on this farce….My only solace is my congressperson Anna Eschoo voted against it…. somw solace but not very much… Christy please keep us informed as to waht we can do to wake these fools up to the fact that the American people really and truly don’t want retrocative immuntiy for Cheney and his telco friends.

How are you doing lately? Seems like my threads never coincide with your online time lately. How’s life for you?

My goodness….so sorry to hear about the grandparents. Best wishes to them and to you guys — will include you all on the wish list to “upstairs”.

I have no answer about how best to proceed on this issue. My senators will soon be Dole and Burr … lost causes. But I will call others and continue to chant “Donna Edwards, Donna Edwards”. Am hoping some of this vote was by Reps. who fear being seen as “soft on terror” — jackass premise though that is.

I have never liked trusted Hoyer and keep being reminded of why.

Oh, and for folks keeping tabs — we’re at $297,322 and counting as of today in the BlueAm FISA PAC. (Name to be determined *g*)

Well, I sent messages to Cornyn and Hutchison….lots of good that will do, plus contact to Obama to speak out against lawlessness, etc. Hutchison is the one, of course, who call the Plame leak a “technicality.” And she’s a lawyer, they say. Maybe we ought to get State Bar Assoc. to notice lies from lawyers’ mouths. The call is to uphold the profession, blah, blah, blah.

Thanks very much Christy.

I never knew anything about FISA until I started reading your posts.

Big props to Olbermann too. AFAIK, only place in legacy media that covered the disaster.

ooooo! i love KABLAM boobs, liars, assholes, and mofos! that’s got to be the name!

Thanks for asking. She’s “so so” but am in the process of moving from NYC to live with her.

She’s on oxygen every night, rarely dresses etc. etc. Her mind is still sharp though. The next doctor’s appt. is on the 30th. My guess is he will say COPD and congestive heart failure.

As you can imagine…..going from the UWS of Manhattan back to rural eastern NC requires a healthy sense of humor. *g*

I think I’m going to call it (to myself) the “Let’s Kick the Bastards in the B*lls” PAC.

With all due politeness and speaking only metaphorically of course.

Oh by the way great post Christy here is a little Digg for your efforts!

Hey Pups don’t forget when you digg it brings more traffic to the Lake and that gets clicks and the Lake gets paid for those clicks:>) So please do your part and DIGG this Post Christy brought us!

As do you, ma’m.

As do you.

Well done!

You can bet they’re hearing from some of their constituents in the “Strangebedfellows.”

Your post was a good reminder for me to start calling some of the GOP reps in my state.

Dugg

Thanks for the link.

And, yes, I do realize I’m showing my age with a Sinatra video and a reference to Laverne and Shirley. *G*

Dang, this sucker just keeps rising up out of the swamp, doesn’t it?! I told Mr. Obama that I’ll not be sending any more moohla his way (like I’m a heavy hitter, right?) unless he gets on the right side of this issue. Likely his staff is all a-quiver at the prospect. Urgh.

I don’t have a congressperson. I have John Kline. The Red Dog’s red dog. And one of my senators is Norm Coleman. How could these things happen in the land of Paul Wellstone? How???

Here’s my question: lots of things have passed the House since 2006, only to “die” in the Senate. Why does Harry Reid sound so plaintive about being unable to stop this horror? He controls what comes to the Senate floor, right? So why can’t he just not call a vote?

He could take the heat for our prez nominee from the wingnuts (which is coming anyway since Obama voted against this outrage last time) and let the House Blue Dogs go home to defend their atrocious vote as they seem to think they need to do.

What say you to some pressure on Leader Reid: Just Say No, Harry?

Amen!

we fought as hard as we can fight and we are losing with only one more battle before failure

we have to get another filibuster, we cannot allow these crimes to go unaswered, we cannot allow them to have the cover of law for all they have done against this country

we need one more filibuster and we need obama to stand and DEMAND the democrats filibuster untill imunity is rescinded

this cannot go forward if obama is to have my support, if he allows this I will simply think we have a mccain in the white house acting like a democrat

he will be a lieberman, I will not support him

Why does Harry Reid sound so plaintive about being unable to stop this horror? He controls what comes to the Senate floor, right? So why can’t he just not call a vote?

I want reid out of office if this goes to vote and I want him to know we will hold him to account for it

wasn’t it reid that submitted this bill instead of the feingold bill?

I want him out

Believe me when I tell you that question has been asked…a number of times. And I wish I had answers for you on it.

Christy, You Rock !!

All we can do is keep on rockin’.

Clearly I am missing something here. Could someone please help me understand the rationale among Dems who are supporting telecom immunity? I just don’t get it. ‘Course, there’s a lot I don’t get lately, so maybe it’s just me?

Off the top of my head: AWARE

Americans
Wary and
Alert for
Rights for
Everyone

Dugg

Thank you Christy. And Marcy, Jane, bmaz, and everyone of you who have been working tirelessly on this to keep us informed and inspired.

Thank you, Christy for keeping us (well, me at least– acn’t speak for others) so informed and being a great leader in this worthwhile fight.

PS, One of my sons came home from school on te last day of school with the contents of his desk bulging out of his backpack — papers going back to October, stuff like that; a chip off the old block. Anyway,turns out in social studies (we used to have seprate geography and history) they were doing the 50 states and each kid got one and he got WVA. All sorts of stuff about WVA was in that desk.

We simply must accept that, for all his forlorn appearances lamenting the bill’s progress and likely passage, that this is exactly what Harry Reid wants.

As the wise and utterly corrupt Nixon consigliere John Mitchell once said, “Watch what we do, not what we say.” I put Harry Reid’s words — and actions — in that category. He alone has the power to stop this, and he is not.

Many thanks to Christy for all she does and so sorry your in-laws are ill. In defense of Harry Reid, he has only 49 democrats, Lieberman and Sanders in caucus. To get anything through the Senate takes 60 votes. The rules are not hospitable for action.

I think what’s driving the whole issue is that the Democratic leadership was complicit with the Bush Administration. Retroactive immunity for the Telco’s is more about insulating the GOP from the consequences of their actions. Since the Democratic leadership was complicit, they want to bury the evidence of their complicity. Dems not in leadership posts don’t want to anger their leaders.

OK, call me uninformed and naive, but I don’t get why this even comes to the floor and why they (i.e Reid & the Dems) don’t wait until after the election and we may not have to deal with it — or at least not retro immunity.

I believe the actual rationale has several parts:
1. $
2. $
3. $
Also, fear of being called “soft on terror.” And heeding the leadership, which has legal exposure for having known about this extraconstitutionality and done nothing.

Money and CYA.

Yes, the odious Mr. Lieberman is a thorn in so many sides at once, it’s tough to know which irritant he’s engaged at any one time. SIGH

But inaction — which is all that’s really needed here — is utterly plausible.

So why not in-act?

Hi all, and thanks Christy for all your very hard work.

The question of why Reid submitted this bill instead of the other one has come up frequently. On this one, he gets a pass.

Senate rules have the Committees listed in a priority order for bill submission in case of duplicates. The oommittee this one was sitting in ready to go to the floor had priority over the committee that had the bill with no immunity in it. Yes it would have been much easier to start with the other bill and swat the Rethugs down trying to amend it.

But he had no choice. So, on this at least, he gets a pass.

On what happens next – this is in his court. He controls “WHEN” the bill is voted on – and the best case scenario is that it never gets on the calendar.

And that is typically how the Senate ‘kills’ bills it doesn’t want to deal with. So – let’s go for it!

I think the shrewd tactical decision Jane and others have made is to go after Steny. He’s a lot more vulnerable and putting pressure on him indirectly puts pressure on the other two.

The comments I’ve seen floated were along the lines that the leadership, including Reid know about everything from the beginning. They don’treally object to it a nd were caught off guard by the opposition from people they need (i.e. us) and basically strung us along by saying stuff that sounded good and doing meaningless stuff that looked like they were putting up the fight we wanted. Waited awhile and figured now that the campaign has started, they have our support no matter what and can get rid of the FISA thing. Finally.

Don’t know about that, but I’ve seen that speculation.

I would think that is how it will play out. Not sure of course but it is a distinct possibility to leave the question moot until next year with I hope more democrats and a democratic, if flawed as they all are, president.

That was the technical argument I got from his office — but my reading of the rules also allowed for him to submit his own bill, an amalgam of the two, if he chose OR (and this was my preference) to bring the RESTORE Act from the House and calendar it instead of the Intel Bill. But that didn’t happen, and we’ve all gone round and round as to whether that was or was not really possible under the rules and regs — and under the current Senate structure in terms of workability and comity.

It’s one of those questions for which there may be no one good answer, I’m afraid. Frustrating, but there you go.

How is Stainy WHore vulnerable? he is running virtually unopposed. He got in last time with over 82% of the vote in his district. Many people are of the opinion that whil Nancy Pee sits in the Sp;eaker chair, it’s really Stainy who runs the show. Not much vulnerability that I can see…

You’re looking at tactically and strategically incorrectly. Try this – it only takes 40 votes to stop it

I lurked here and at emptywheel for quite some time, but I signed petitions, called congress critters and wrote letters, on the net and on real paper to the local newspaper. But I never felt much of that was doing any good. When I stopped lurking at the Lake and got involved with this site and you, Christy, and Jane and Glenn, I felt like it was not all for naught. Now we have lost this battle too. We did well delaying it, but I always feared this eventual outcome. I well recall and cherish those nights going to sleep knowing that this horrific bill had been stopped. I kept saying, “It hasn’t happened yet!” Those nights are gone.
Thanks for the thanks, Christy. So, I’m left with the rest of what is sounding like the majority of Americans everywhere, WHAT NOW? What do we do now? Except STOP sending Obama money. THAT’s a done deal. and yeah, I told him so. in email, phone message and that petition.
The Founder’s cried last night. I heard them.

Well, they have definitely known about opposition from me since 2005, I can tell you that. But there would have been no catching them off guard on opposition on this for the last year for certain — from several sources all at once. That would not fly as an excuse. It may be they weren’t expecting any of us to have readers who also vociferously and vigorously objected — but that’s their lack of research, now isn’t it, if so…

His district demographics are changing, but he’s still playing the old Steny pol show. And the folks moving in are not so likely to fall for that schtick. But his political folks have failed to take note. This one is long ball…

What does “go after” look like? I’m guessing Steny Hoyer doesn’t give a rip about what barbara from Minnesota thinks. (Yeah, fine, I’m being naive again. Be kind.)

Well, there’s always the conference committee, where the People’s will has prevailed so often. Perhaps, in the dark, the Democrats will insist on the restoration of our Fourth Amendment rights!

hahahaha

Thanks Teddy. Needed a good laugh today!

Do we know this or do we “just” suspect it? (Please remember that I only get here randomly of late.)

I found this petition to Obama. Please sign.

To: Senator Barack Obama

Senator Obama:

On Friday, June 20th, an unconstitutional FISA update bill passed the House of Representatives, which will legitimize the Bush Administration’s warrantless wiretapping program. It will give extensive powers of surveillance to the executive branch and provide an avenue for retroactive immunity for the telecoms companies that illegally spied on American citizens.

As the presumptive nominee of the Democratic party–and most likely the next President of the United States–your words and actions in the Senate carry a lot of weight. Therefore, we ask two things of you:

1) That you speak out against the bill in its entirety and encourage other Senators to vote against it when it comes up for a vote in the Senate next week.
2) That when called to vote on the FISA Bill, that you vote against it in its entirety.
[snip]
To sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/…..ition.html

Yeah, fertile ground there….Mary Landrieu, Mark Pryor, Ben Nelson, etc., really easy to hold that caucus together. What was I thinking!

I think the fact that they are all flawed in some ways is a good reminder for everyone in all of this. Not one of them is ever going to be everything to all of us at the same time — it just isn’t humanly possible, because we all have our own, individual priorities and each district make-up is different as well and requires tending.

The fight is really the important thing — because it at least forces them to stop and think which they might not bother even doing otherwise. The key is to come up with more effective ways to fight. A win is nice, but the fight for long-term change is even better. Marathon, not a sprint…and, in the meantime, I keep repeating to myself “McCain does not get to do new SCOTUS appointees if I can help it, so help me God.”

I’m pissed off like everybody else also,but the bright side is living up here in Wi.8 cong.dist. I think back to a few years ago when we didn’t even have a Dem. on the ticket and now have Steve Kagen.

This is a great idea, I think. Christy? Can FDL weigh in like this (via petition, and yes, I would be incapable of writing were there not parentheses)?

Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger, barbara. I can assure that Nancy Pelosi cares not a fig for what Teddy from San Francisco thinks, either. They have proved that this week, and the Senate will prove it next week.

As Jonathan Turley said to Keith Olbermann, there is absolutely no public support for this bill. None whatsoever. It is simply Congress acting in their purest fashion, as Matt Taibbi wrote: ensuring their campaign donors get what they want.

And that is typically how the Senate ‘kills’ bills it doesn’t want to deal with. So – let’s go for it!

with obama claiming we need this bill even with the immunity this is an uphill battle, we have to get on his case and get him on board

he cannot tell the democrats this is acceptable “because” it has some things he likes

he is the head of our party, now he has to act like it, he works for us not the president and not the telecoms

he works for the constitution and we didn’t get him in this position to lay down the very first time we need him

Couldn’t agree more! I think Donna Edwards’ victory made my nothing-burger representative John Sarbanes actually vote the right way this week!

First: Boundless thanks to Christy and the other FireBigDogs for articulating our situation and providing access to the tools of citizenship, this many a year. Without this leadership, this community could not have formed, nor made itself felt to any effective degree.

Second: As to what to do now, I would say first, be absolutely as active as possible w/r/t the Senate starting this very minute. Sending the same fax yet again is fine. The point — the entire point — is to make a commotion that will be noticed. I find the idea that the D leadership has sort of bluffed here, and is keeping an eye on us-all to see whether we’ll take it lying down or not, pretty plausible. So don’t let’s cave ourselves, this is absolutely the wrong time to rest, much less give up. Second, give money. I gave $100 to Stange Bedfellows and it felt great; I recommend the experience even if only from a purely hedonistic POV. (Insert wry smiley here.)

I think we need to form an SOB pac (sick of bullshit) and clobber ‘em with it.

I urge you to do just that.

That’s politics. But what if, as I believe he will, he ignores you and does his ‘disappearing’ act?

What then?

Will you let this guy stand for the progressive movement?

Will you vote for him so he can become POTUS and really show his true colors?

At what point does ‘Hope’ become a lie?

“the people have spoken and they take a stand, they do not want crimes forgiven, they do not want future crimes given the hope new law will be written and their crimes will go unpunished.

no American can support this bill untill criminal behavior has the promise they will be brought to the bar of justice”

that’s what obama has to do

Obama expects to be President, and he wants these powers.

A President who is inaugurated with these powers in place will be much more powerful than a President who had to fight a compliant Congress for them.

Think about it: our next President will be more powerful as a Unitary Executive than George W Bush and Dick Cheney put together. The infrastructure is all in place; no need to invent it. It’s the way the guy before you did things, so it must be okay.

Then think: do you want that next President to be John McCain, or the GOP replacement for John McCain? I don’t.

Not at all.

I found the petition and signed it and added in the comments “Please support the Constitution and the Rule of Law”.

Here’s a little better linky for it – goes directly to the petition page:

http://www.petitiononline.com/…..ition.html

The republicans have been very successful in tying any sort of defense of Constitutional rights as a sign of weakness, or creating special rights, when the opposite is true. It takes strength and courage to stand up for what you believe in even if it’s not popular at the time, and to fight for equal protection against predjudice and hate.

I’m not giving the Supreme Court over to McCain. If you thought this hurt, imagine what it will be like with more like Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas.

I’ve heard many a voice say appointments to the SC is not an important issue. What they fail to understand is that if McShitForBrains is elected and appoints just two right wingers the wingnuts will use the courts to bring their favourite gripe to the SC, where the further right it is the more likelihood of it being settled in their favour. Death penalty appeals would probably never be heard and Roe v Wade would be overturned at the first opportunity. The SC would, imo, at some point turn the country into a corporate state by law as well as in practice. Corporate rights would supercede all others. Appointments to the SC are one of the most important ramifications of this election. No doubt about it.

That’s what I told my Rep congresscritter yesterday, for all the good it did. Hopefully it got him thinking though. They have accrued all this power – do the Rethugs REALLY want Obama to have it all? Or any other Dem for that matter?

You have to pick one of the three. It sounds like you agree with that.

Gender matters. Attacking Pelosi isn’t pragmatic.

Harry won by less than a thousand votes last time. If you attack him, all you’re doing is moving him to the right.

Only 60% of Steny’s district is European American. By attacking him, you’re moving him to the left, whether we unseat him or not. You’re also supporting voter registration among the poor.

Thank you Christy for all your hard work!

cbl pasted this earlier for FISA feedback

http://my.barackobama.com/page…..ard/gG5R42

Exactly. I say this to people and they act like Roe is the only thing there is to worry about and if that’s it, then what’s the fuss. But then I start challenging them with Ledbetter, the eminent domain to hand over to a private developer (that really gets people out west!). This SCOTUS is already deciding cases on about 4 to 1 in favor of corporations. It will be 100% with just one more justice like Scalia et al.

What if everybody flooded their Senators with the same questions:

“How many of your constituents are favor of the current FISA revisions, vs. how many against? Whose will would a Yes vote serve? Is your answer consistent with the oath you swore to protect and defend the Constitution?”

Hi M’man!

Someone pointed out that it may be Obama’s Supreme Court appointees who rule this piece of crap unconstitutional, eventually, should plaintiffs find a way to reach the Court under the new law.

What about a poison veto pill? Can the Senate add a troop withdrawal suggestion, or a minimum wage increase, or aid for the Midwest flood victims? Something to draw a likely veto?

Yes, I want them all out of there. Anyway, It’s still going to be hard to unseat Stainy this time – like I said, the primary is over, and unless you want a Rethug in his seat…

Nancy Pee is being opposed by Cindy Sheehan (running as an Independent). Gender solved.

As far as the rest of them, attack them all!

Opps/ you have to drive down through: http://my.barackobama.com/page…..commentary

Please sign. Currently only 76 people have signed it! :-[

Excellent! Just excellent. Nelson and Martinez will get that question before the sun goes down. Thanks.

Thanks for the link.

I signed it.

Book Salon upstairs

Hey teddy

I thought about that yesterday about Obama’s appointees. I’m not sure of how that wold work itself out, however it would make a lot of heads explode on the right, which is always motivation.

Even sweeter if Hillary wrote the majority opinion.

I’m not sure what “Strange Bedfellows” plan is.

Yes, the primary is over. Any unseating will have to wait for 2010.

As liberals, I think it’s wise to pick targets very selectively, so that we can maximize our resources to the best effect.

Merely removing immunity would be the perfect poison pill, but there are probably other ones that would work. But they’d have to pass a Senate vote.

I’m pretty confident of Jon Tester’s vote, Baucus, not so much. So here goes – pressure on to make sure he commits to doing the right thing.

I like those questions too.

If the Senate floor will entertain amendments (the House floor wouldn’t), here are two good ones.

First, replace “was determined to be lawful” with “was determined by a court of law to be lawful” — this will most likely fail, making a point that can’t be missed, or in the unlikely event that it succeeds, it becomes a poison pill, at the veto stage.

Then, if that fails, the next amendment to propose is to replace “was determined to be lawful” with “was determined by the President of the United States to be lawful” — this one calls the R’s bluff, since they should want this, but actually acknowledging this in the text of the law becomes a poison pill at the court challenge stage. And for now, it shines a big ol’ spotlight on the crux issue of establishing a precedent for the suspension of rule of law.

Now… what Senator will do this work for the people?

Done.

Excellent ideas, both.

That’s why I think if we can mount a serious challenge to Pelosi it would do some good. I’m happy a woman is in the Speaker chair, but it does no good if she’s acting as a front for Stainy and crew.

Even if the race is very close and she wins it would be a wake-up call since she hasn’t really had a serious challenge before. And coming from Cindy, well!

Barrow we should be able to get – Regina Thomas is our Blue America candidate – and the primary is July 15 I think, so we can really work and support her. (Obama endorsement can go to he**)

I read somewhere that a Maryland constituent asked the phone-answerer in Barbara Mikulski’s office, “So, you must be getting lots of calls in favor of this telecom immunity, since she’s for it?” Laughter ensued.

The way I look at them, is that most people are basically the same people they were at twelve years old with a little more knowledge.

Most politicians are the narcissistic kids who knew how to manipulate their fellow students in a way to gain popularity. Of course there are some who do things to make things around them better but on the whole most politicians are those twelve year olds who told the kids in front of the lunch line that they would be the friends of those who were at the front of the line and laughed at those kids later on. They went on to run for ’student whatever’ and most times won. Sometime after, they became adults and ran for public office, and now the favors they ask for, and give, are just more pronounced.

What they (that twelve year old person inside) really crave deep down is that adulation and affirmation of being popular.

Political parties are not genetic

I don’t look at them as Dems and Repubs. I strongly believe that if Joe Lieberman grew up in Kansas and his last name was Little he’d be an Repub because that would be the best way for him to feed that craving

Call and fax them to remind them of what is popular

Call Hillary – she says she’s ready to ‘lead on Day One’. Day One has arrived for her.

Lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way.

and who is out now and unable to vote? Ted Kennedy and Byrd? and who else? On these squeaker votes that will matter. In fact, could this account for why now and so quickly done that House members didnt have more than 24 hours to read?

89!

Barrow we should be able to get – Regina Thomas is our Blue America candidate – and the primary is July 15 I think, so we can really work and support her. (Obama endorsement can go to he**)

Completely agree on Regina Thomas. I sent her $25 the day she chatted at FDL. I sent her another $25 on Thursday when I heard Barack cut a commercial for Barrow. I wish I had another $100 to send her.

Then she’s not exactly Representing, is she?

Good questions. The difficulty is that they tend to view their constituents through the narrow view-finder of partisanship. But I’ll tell you something. This reminds me of why I have to keep plugging away with Rep. John KlineBushClone and Senator Norm Colemeleon. If anyone at all in their offices is honest (by no means a certainty), the opposition weighing in in large numbers has to count for something. Maybe. Hopefully.

I also would love it if HRC would cut a commercial for Regina Thomas.

Hey, we’re a trend! I emailed Feinstein & Boxer.

You are right, but I think the way they read “popularity” now is money. With enough money, they can get votes, which is what they crave. But they need the money, and the telecoms provide the money.

I also wonder how long it will take for us to hear about the fear they were exposed too. Remember, last summer, Jane Harman exposed BushCheneyCo’s fearmongering right after their PAA vote? They came up and talked about actual threats to Capitol Hill, which turned out to be old and unreliable intelligence.

I presume our ‘critters were exposed to that again. It must have been convincing, since Harman managed to vote with Bush again.

Also, has anyone commented on the fact that they waited until 90% of their primaries were over? And that one who faces a primary and is very telecom-friendly, got an ad from Obama (Barrow)? There are now 70 BushDogs, up from 38 last time. Primary season is over, so they can vote with the Preznit now. What’s up with that?

Large numbers is the key, the exact questions could be different. Being noticed as a bloc is the point.

I understand Byrd is doing much better and expected to be back – and he will be all over the constitutional issues.

Kennedy, I don’t know – he’s doing chemo right now and the kind he’s having is really debilitating. Plus he’s getting radiation to his brain as well. I’d say we can’t count on him.

You’re asking excellent direct questions, no problem.

Strange Bedfellows indeed

Do we know how many Bushdogs are in the Senate?

The Book Salon is upstairs with some interesting discussion about how OSHA and other agencies are failing us and how the fake science is taking over.

Yeah, that would be cool…interesting dynamic though – as HRC and Obama are traveling together this week, trying to ‘unify’ the party.

LOL

Every single agency in the government is failing us right now – 100% because Bush has appointed industry lobbyists and stupid cronies who all adhere to the creationist anti-science position he requires.

The philosophy is a) the government is ineffective.
b) put these jokers in charge, they destroy the agency.
c) tell everyone, see, I told you so.

I don’t have direct evidence that the Democratic leadership is trying to cover up its complicity with the Bush administration. With that said, I’d bet the last nickel I own that’s the case.

How much pressure that is exerting on the whole process is more difficult to gauge. I suspect it’s a lot, but I’ll defer to others with more detailed knowledge.

FWIW, I’m a big tent type. I think the least bad answer for me is to wade into the moral cesspool that is the Democratic party.

Ah! Now I get it. Thanks.

Good point about the money

But I think the dynamic is changing

Christy @ 12:

Oh, and for folks keeping tabs — we’re at $297,322 and counting as of today in the BlueAm FISA PAC.

Steny is still in the stone age when it comes to messaging and raising money for that messaging

Would he be able to raise this much from the telecoms this fast without there being questions?

Yeah, me, too, I guess. Was a delegate to our state convention and I didn’t even bring my hip boots.

Would he be able to raise this much from the telecoms this fast without there being questions?

The telecoms could give it to the Party, which would then funnel it to Hoyer, just a variation of Delay’s scheme in Texas. I would imagine the telcos would pony up a 100 grand apiece to keep their toady in DC. If anybody knows how to circumvent FEC rules the corporations do.

I sent an email to Obama, asking to be removed from fundraising emails until he changes his position on FISA bill. Also told him “Shame on him and shame on me for believing I was supporting a new kind of politician.” I also called, to no avail, my Congressman who is one of the BlueDogs.

We all owe this website and Glenns super kudos for educating us on this issue. I have talked to so many people who are unaware of the threat to our Constitution that this bill purports. It makes me sad for democracy. It discourages me daily to see what is happening and then I get online to share all your comments and I still see enthusiasm and spirit to “keep on keeping on”.

At my advanced age of 66, your efforts are inspiring. Keep it up. I will be going to Canada for 2 wks soon and will have NO internet connection so will truly be in political withdrawal.

Arthur Silbur, from 2006:

Let’s rephrase the old cliche, to make it fully accurate. When faced with dictatorship, torture, and endless war and death, the Democrats will rearrange the atoms, to be found in the molecules, which make up the imperceptible pieces of dust, that rest upon the cushions, that sit on the deck chairs of the Titanic.

A little review of the events of last week, a terrible week for Least-Worsters:

1) (D) Leadership passing one-hundred-sixty-some billion dollars along to be poured out, burned, wasted, or siphoned right up by the hard line corporate fascists at places like KBR, Dyncorp and Blackwater.

Ponder that – US tax money shoveled directly to right-wing paramilitary factions, that could, rather literally, come back to haunt us.

Thanks Democrats!

2) Given way more play in Left Netrootsia was the inevitable, foregone (D) crafting and passage of the FISA revisions Bush has been wanting, but was unable to get the (R) Congress to pass two years ago.

Good luck with all the money raised for ‘accountability’. Use it to elect some Independents, that would be accountability.

Obama’s central role in the Kabuki charade was enlightening for many – and serves as fine forewarning of more to come from him.

3) Even more evidence based proof of what everyone has known for some time came out, including scathing criticism from a former General: The USA uses torture and disappearance as state policy. State Terror.

To Obama, this does not rise to the level of ‘exceptional circumstances’ under which he would ponder contemplating maybe calling for a special committee to investigate whether a real investigation is needed, in 2017.

Quibbles aside, it would seem like, in general, Mr Silbur’s point of view has some predictive validity, and is empirically testable.

To paraphrase a major concern of his:

If Cheney attacks Iran, we are all fucked.

Fucked beyond redemption by a couple of centrist Supreme Court Judges that Pres Obama might nominate, which seems to be the paltry fallback position Least-Worsters can view as solid ground from which to try to guilt-trip everyone to vote (D), no matter what.

What is Joe-Bama doing to avert Cheney from this next reckless attack, that may even quash his hopes for the power of the White House?

nothing, of course.

which is why I wonder:

In stark contrast, one development would sound the final death knell for any prospect of meaningful change. You know what that is.[war against Iran] War has always been and will always be the most crucial means by which repressive, tyrannical government cements its massive powers and acquires still new ones. The consequences of an attack on Iran will be huge and certainly irreversible, at least in our lifetimes, both at home and abroad. It’s an interesting question: why all these fired-up activists will take on a battle such as the FISA one, while they are absolute in their refusal to try to stop the drive to war with Iran.

http://powerofnarrative.blogsp…..-evil.html

on the one hand, the events of this week can be seen as empowering – as Turley mentioned, the netrrots can take some credit for jamming the gears a bit, and the money raised is impressive.

how about stepping up the pressure to avert another senseless war, one which will have plenty of unpleasant consequences we may all have a chance to feel, personally?

You know, I meant with Senator Feinstein’s people about stopping a war on Iran on April 27, 2006. I have kept up what little pressure I can exert. I take a back seat to no one on stopping that war.

We can do more than one thing at a time.

Christy [my reply-thingy button doesn’t seem to be working], I heard from jonathan Turley after his appearance on Olbermann and the rotten House vote. He said ”it’s not over” and that the important thing was to let the various Congress critters know that they can’t sneak this kind of crap [my term] through without a big blow-back.

So my suggestions would be:

1) Work on the Senate. As someone pointed out above, we’re not in the whiney ”we need 60 votes to cut off debate” territory that the Dems are constantly using as an excuse for not getting anything done. THEY [the bad guys]need 60 votes to cut off debate. Get out those cots & sleeping bags and get ready for a filibuster.

2) Talk the language that the House leadership [sic] understands: MONEY. We raised a HUGE amount of money in a very short time. The DCCC, DSCC and DNC are in the business of raising, or attempting to raise, money. So a little missive to the respective heads of these groups [Cong. Chris VanHollen, Sen. Chuck Shumer, and Dr. Dean] pointing out this fact AND the fact that the dollars that go to help that Orphan, Our Constitution, are ones that DON’T flow their way, might catch their attention.

3) Nope, we can’t turn over the entire House, or even rid ourselves of the Blue Dogs overnight. But point to Donna Edwards victory over Al Wynn, and ask Steny & Nancy to think about whether they’re likely to hang on to their ”leadership [sic]” positions when they

a) sell members down the Blue Dog river;
b)behave in ways [”members won’t be asked to vote on bills they haven’t had a chance to read”] they promised went out with Newt Gingrich;
c) encounter a new wave of better Democratic House members, as the Al Wynns and Barrows get picked off one by one.

4) There’s no need to threaten extreme action vis-a-vis Obama [i.e., not voting for him] but I think many thousands of messages of disappointment and a moratorium on contributions ”until we get over our grief” [at his lack of leadership] would help.

So, my suggestion is that we all fire up the e-mail letters to friends, family, co-workers, etc., urging them to call, e-mail, write, fax. Provide them a short explanation of the situation, together with a few links to Glenn, Christy, Marcy, etc. Provide them phone #s or addresses if possible. Remind them that it’s QUANTITY, not quality of communication that will count. [You want the staff members to be swearing about the NUMBER of communications that they now have to dream up a response to on this issue.]

When the Bad Critters talk among themselves about the huge piles of mail, faxes, phone calls, e-mails & visits to the home office they’re receiving because of their vote on that FISA bill that Steny & Nancy assured them was a no-brainer [i.e., only people with no brains voted for it], we will have gained a modicum of success.

This might help.

http://www.bluedogdems.com/what.html

thats awesome – a lot of respect to you for that. the chain of events flowing from an attack on Iran are quite horrifying to contemplate.

Cheney might invoke emergency powers, rendering all this FISA brouhaha quite moot.

Couldn’t agree more, Mauimom. Now is NOT the time to rest, and especially w/r/t your items 1, 2, & 4 which are URGENT for action TODAY. Everybody reading these words can help. Please do it.

Thanks for the linky. Unfortunately, it only listed House members. Does the Senate have another organization and does anyone know what it’s called? Or does anyone have a list of the ’bushdog’ votes lately by any of these guys?

We need to get to 40, or a filibuster, or both. We’ve really only got 48 Dems (Kennedy’s out). Does anyone know how Bernie Sanders might vote on this?

And then we must figure out the bushdogs so we can really target them for working on.

Like Baucus – he’s a real question mark on this one. Tester’s in the okay column. So I’m going to spend my effort on Baucus.

Are there any ’maverick’ Rethugs? (NO NOT MCSLIME!) who might do the right thing and vote in our group of 40?

Christy, thank you so much for continuing to hold their feet to the fire. I’ll be making my calls and sending FAXes this week.

I’ll also be contacting Obama’s campaign to tell them exactly how I feel about his appeasement.

-S

Senate Repubs are much more vulnerable now than in the last 50 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..redictions

Which reads to me that the country is coming around to our way of thinking, and also gives the Dem “leadership” no excuse for saying that they have to vote with Bush on this

Just a short look at the House says much the same thing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..redictions

They tell us to ‘fuck off and go along and play’ but they have no excuses for this travesty

Looks like the WPost is giving Steny some protection before next Thursday’s advertisement.

Like Nancy couldn’t do anything either. They want this, for some reason they won’t state.

I think they really don’t see what’s coming in the other end of the tunnel. They think it’s the other end of the tunnel that they’re seeing. (We’re on the outside, seeing the fast freight going in ….)

That was a sucky article, but par for the course. He’s a great guy cuz he can ‘cut a deal’ with the Rethugs. Nevermind that the Rethugs get everything they want and more, and the Dems get nothing or less than nothing. Not much of a negotiator I’d say. Creep.

Well, he thinks his seat is safe. Let’s prove otherwise!

It’s been suggested elsewhere that we have a fund set up for all the money we would have given to Nameless Politicians if they’d voted against this piece-o-crap bill. Also that we make sure they know that’s where that money is going, so they can see what they’ve just lost.

siri — this is a war we are fighting. It took the founders not a couple of years to create this republic, but decades of dissent and warfare. We may be able to keep it, but only if we are willing to invest the same level of perseverance the founders invested.

Therein is the real problem; for only 5 years now there has been a concerted and increasingly organized effort to rebel against the take-over of our government by forces that would negate the Constitution. There are still far too many who are disconnected and disengaged in this process for us to be readily successful. In my state of 10 million people, I estimate the number of committed activists, regardless of progressive organization from Greens through Dems, to be less than 100 per 83 counties — not a particularly good proportion. The number of true activists within the Democratic Party is even smaller. Just look at participation at any state convention and there you have it, the real reason that we have the Democratic leadership we have today. We get the leadership we deserve, because we are not willing to do the heavy lifting necessary to find, recruit, train, elect and re-elect really strong progressives. It doesn’t happen by phone calls and emails alone.

If we are truly going to make change happen, you must remain engaged, and you must commit to doing something more. It can and does happen, but it may take a generational shift in power before we can rest our laurels; that means it may take more than a decade and as much as a couple lifetimes before we can be assured we have our democratic republic back again.

I like the way you think.
Both those changes are completely innocuous on the surface – they don’t look like they’d mess up the intent.

They want this, for some reason they won’t state.

This is what drives me crazy.

The argument that by voting it down or not bringing it to a vote would make them vulnerable in Nov on “national security” doesn’t wash. A simple rejoinder is that the original FISA law more than adequately provides for surveillance of suspects, emphasis on suspects.

Most folks in the opposition, peaceful and otherwise, assume the Gestapo, er, NSA, is copying their traffic so the rationale is hollow at best.

Hi Christie, guess what I was just writing about. I’ll add that Turley quote in an update. It sure was a depressing day, wasn’t it?

Thanks, PJ. Good ideas we got plenty of. A Senator with any guts whatsoever, we’re fresh out of.

I wonder if those meetings at the WH with Shrub are wher he shows them their dossiers with names, dates, phone numbers, and amounts.
That would account for part of the cooperation: they’re scared it will ‘leak’ to the media, and they know – think they know, anyway – people will be screaming about that stuff. We can deal with that, it’s not like that’s anything new (heck, Harding had a child by a mistress while he was in office) – it’s the constant caving that has me riled.

Great post, Rayne. We MUST remember that it didn’t take just the last 7 years to get into this mess – the thing has been a ‘war’ being waged by the neo-cons ever since the New Deal of FDR. They organized, planned, schemed, funded think tanks, bought media outlets, planned and schemed some more and now we have the fruition. Until we get as organized as they are/were and really start planning and funding our stuff (like the Rockridge Institute, now defunct due to lack of consistent funding!) and support our few truly left-leaning media outlets (Air America, and???) and keep up the pressure we won’t get anywhere.

If we are truly going to make change happen, you must remain engaged, and you must commit to doing something more. It can and does happen, but it may take a generational shift in power before we can rest our laurels; that means it may take more than a decade and as much as a couple lifetimes before we can be assured we have our democratic republic back again.

You are absolutely right here – it IS going to be a lot of heavy lifting, and in the beginning, it won’t be very many people doing it. But we must, and that is what keeps me plugging along – even though I am so disgusted and exhausted right now I can hardly type this.

I don’t think it’s personal peccadillos that they are afraid of. I think they have been out there on the hustings saying how criminal the Bush Admin is, and the truth to be found behind the telcom lawsuits is that a whole lot of them actually knew what was going on from the get-go. Which means they not only lied to the country about knowing about this stuff, it makes them just a criminally liable as any Bush-thug. CYA – you bet!

Thank you.

Remember, Bushbot told us that he had ‘informed the leadership’ of both the House and Senate at the beginning. Then they all started whining that well, yeah, he did, but we couldn’t talk about it cuz he told us not to.

Complicit in his crimes – that’s how he gets everything. If you want to win and you are doing something illegal, make sure the opposition gets involved some way too, and presto! Instant results!

That scenario has gone through my mind more times that I’d like to think about. Hoover was a master at collecting “embarrassing” details on people. With this crowd they’d do it as a matter of course. When one gives up their honour and integrity for wealth and fame it allows them to do things they otherwise would not. In the phrase “More and better Democrats,” better has more than one meaning.

Tariq Ali wrote an editorial in the Mar/Apr issue of New Left Review about Afghanistan. Worth reading.

I’m not buying the comity angle for a second. Dodd asked Reid to put a hold on the Intel bill, and Reid refused. He overrode someone from his own party.

I think Reid was clearly motivated to use the Intel bill. If he wasn’t, at the very least he could have told Rockefeller that his bill would never see the light of day as long as it had immunity and blanket warrants.

Reid is a bad Leader, and exactly the Leader Senate Democrats want.

Convincing him to step aside to tend his own 2010 re-election will be extremely difficult, especially if he has, as is very likely, made gains in the size of his caucus. All victories like that accrue to the benefit of the Leader.

I think that of obama wants these powers I don’t want him as president

that’s what I think, I don’t give a flying hoot which person wins if he wants these powers

if the Dems are so compromised, any chance there is an R who hates this enough to stop it?

Thank you, Boo. Tell me when I’m nagging too much; I’ve tried to make this point several times in the last 24 hours, but I don’t know if it is getting through.

Ian’s up a couple flights, c’mon up and help build a better progressive democratic party

and while you’re at it, build a better vegetarian steakhouse!

a better Zeppelin, made of Lead!

a better Jewish Bacon!

a better way to piss up a rope!

a better Jackalope Butler, to fetch you a martini, extra dry!

a better dacshund dogsled team, to run in the Iditarod!

all you would need is more and better dacshunds.

Tip of the hat back at you.

Thanks for everything you have done, all of which I depend on and which now seems epic.
I was devastated yesterday. I think I have written more letters on this subject over the last year, and made more phone calls, and felt more desperately about this issue, than I have over anything else.
And mostly I come to your posts on this site for the links, and the phone numbers and the updates about what is happening.
What next? Can we work specifically for the end to this Democratic leadership — following the new ad tarketing Steny Hoyer. I mean, why not come out and say it?
I just posed this suggestion in the comments for a Glenn Greenwald post–

Can we lobby the Democratic Congress in earnest to change their leadership?

I am thinking about mailing each Democratic member on a regular basis (bi-weekly?) our critique of their leadership and their actions, and including evidence of our conviction that their actions are out of touch with the voters on a massive scale.

.. as a part of the campaign you have begun with the ad targeting Steny Hoyer. Perhaps focusing on Steny Hoyer– or Hoyer and Pelosi.

It can include several voices — or many voices. And also send to the Congressional Quarterly and other editorial outlets.

We can use a petition with signatures, we can interview people about WHY and HOW Congress has failed us ,,,

We can grow a subscription list — asking for donations –

We can bring it together under a banner–

WHY WE NEED NEW LEADERSHIP

I know I am coming late to this thread, but I, too, saw/heard Jonathan Turley’s remarks on Countdown Thursday night. I always make it a point to listen to Turley whenever I know he is going to appear on the show. He addresses the issues with great good sense and is able to cogently clarify them for the non lawyers among us. How can one contact him to say thanks, not only for these comments on FISA, but for all his invaluable commenting? I honestly feel that if he were invited to other forums he could make a real impact. He is not rabidly partisan. He is simply right on these issues.

Christy, you and all the great individuals who post hear, advance the importance of one, one thought ,one vote , one chance, one great place to learn to understand and all of you do an incredible job. Thank you so very much and keep the ball rolling.