Helpful Hoyer heard their cosmetic concerns, and worked with the Republicans and telecom lobbyists to craft a sham "compromise" on immunity. It superficially resembles judicial review, but merely requires the telcos to say that the Bush administration told them that their eavesdropping requests were lawful. God forbid that the courts should examine the actual legality of the requests; apparently no-one was interested in that compromise.
The Democrat leadership and Bush Dog caucus know that their "compromise" is transparent bullshit that fools no-one (and if they didn't know it before this week, they sure as hell know it now), but it gives them just enough cover to spout legalistic mumbo-jumbo and blow smoke and obfuscate just like Republicans. They can pretend that they're not really granting immunity, because the telecoms have to run this oh-so-daunting judicial gantlet:
"Did the administration tell you that it was legal for them to eavesdrop on every single registered Democrat in Massachusetts, New York, and California?"
"Yes, Your Honor, they did."
"Dismissed."
It also releases Chris Dodd from his pledge to filibuster any bill that has telecom immunity in it, because technically this one doesn't. It has all the ingredients for an EZ-Bake immunity cake, but not the cake itself. I'm hoping that Dodd will still honor the spirit of the pledge rather than the letter, but I'm not counting on it. Nor do I expect that it would make much difference if he did. Not when the party's own leadership - and presumptive presidential nominee - are so eager to push it through. (Yes, as emptywheel says, Obama will make a show of trying to remove retroactive immunity... but probably not much else.)
As Glennzilla points out, it's not much of a "compromise" when the progressive base is universally outraged, and the conservative base is universally pleased. This is pretty much the same terrible give-Bush-everything-he-wants bill as the one the Senate passed in February, but with a diaphanous coating of sugar. The only positive thing I can say about this latest Democratic disgrace is that a slim majority of House Democrats voted against their feckless leadership. Yay, team.
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Eli!
Neuro!
What’s up?
Not much. Pretty slow news day.
Aloha, Eli! I’m fed up with the 105 Dems…! I’m pleased both of my house critters voted nay…!
Yeah, nothing like taking at the trash on Friday huh?
You all can Digg this post…
Aloha, CTut! I am disappointed but unsurprised. Sigh.
At least my Rep did the right thing. Yay, Doyle!
More and better democrats. That’s it. More and better Democrats.
The Blue Dogs have to go
Every son of a bitch who voted for this has to go. I don’t care if we put a Repug in the Traitorous Democrats place–but this was a total sell out. Nancy, I voted against you in the primary and will do so again in November!
No, I realize she’s not listening–she never does!
Fire Blue Dog Lake!
105 more and better Democrats.
We have our work cut out…
Barrow in GA has to go! Barrow needs to be the next Al Wynn, imo.
Regina Thomas sounds like she could totally be the next Donna Edwards…
I got EPU’d, but one good sign is that the press coverage is not what Hoyer was hoping to see. Instead of “Democrats craft bipartisan solution”, it’s “Bush wins major victory”. That’s something to point out to Reid and Obama et al when we call them over the weekend and on Monday. (Yes, there’s the moral angle, but as Saul Alinsky said, it’s always more effective to point out the bottom line to people.)
Duggered.
He seems to be a rare exception. From Washington, the only “no” votes I see are Inslee, Larsen, and McDermott.
Wow, that’s some surprisingly honest reporting there. Maybe it was Kit Bond *saying* it was a major victory and giving the game away…
exceptionrepresentativeI think exceptions are rare by definition .;)
I heart people who know who Saul Alinsky is. And have read his stuff. *g*
There are 128 exceptions, and 105 go-along-to-get-along assholes.
According to this.. Barrow/thomas primary day is July 15th.
Yes, there’s the moral angle, but as Saul Alinsky said, it’s always more effective to point out the bottom line to people.
Clearly, the moral angle isn’t working. I think the bottom line will have more effect.
It’s the ‘Mary Poppins Compromise” - “A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down,” eh, Steny? Well, it must have been a spoonful of saccarine because it was definitely a bitter pill during that vote. I ended up sending letters to the editor of three regional papers in Upstate NY about the bill, the vote, and how our local representatives did their ‘duty” (Hinchey voted against; Arcuri and Walsh voted for - Walsh is the only Rethug). I also encouraged readers to call, write, and fax Schumer and Clinton to fight this. No use throwing out the Constitution with the bathwater.
John Hall did the right thing, too. I like John Hall.
Obama: Barry the privacy slayer
Was it ever in writing between the White House and the telecoms that the telecoms would get immunity if they helped out? Isn’t that the clincher here…the White House didn’t put it in writing, so therefore, it was an illegal act?
Just thinking out loud here.
Okay, going to bed. I’ll read this thread tomorrow. Nite nite everyone. ;-)
Someone has been stirring on what passes for the Dem 50 state blog in GA.
Only in the sidebar… sigh…
http://www.tondeestavern.com/s.....aryId=1743
Yeah, that was one of my talking points when I called Hoyer’s office this morning; asking how this was such a great compromise if Kit Bond was bragging to the NY Times that the White House got pretty much everything it wanted.
The staffer was not amused.
John, “You’re Still the One” Hall? Yep - he did his duty well. I knew we could count on Hinchey - I was totally taken by surprise by Arcuri - he’s sent me emails on his opposition to warrentless wiretaps a immunity for telecoms. But today I looked on opensecrets.org and saw that he’s taken $6,000 from ATT and Verizon. It’s good to know how much his vote costs…he’s a cheap date.
I’m guessing it was more like a nudge-nudge wink-wink promise to keep the heat off if the story got out.
They *all* are. They trade millions and billions of our money for mere thousands of corporate cash.
Anybody have a link to a list of Democratic FISA traitors? I’m really curious to find out how my Congresswoman voted, and by the time I called her office, they were closed. I didn’t see the vote listed on Congress.com, was it attached to some other bill?
Final roll call vote.
BooMan has it.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll437.xml
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll437.xml
We are a helpful bunch of pupulists. *s
I suspect the most straightforward way is to just check the roll call of the vote. Republicans are in italics.
Dunn dugg. Thanks for the linkie.
All right, dammit. We spent the day doing the chemo thing, and what happens while my eye is off the ball? The Congressional Dems sell us out again. Only this time, my main man, Obama, is part and parcel of the travesty. WTF?!? So right after I caught bits and pieces about the FISA thing, I found a fundraising letter from Obama in my inbox. And in a total fit of pique, I said I would no way, no how send another penny to his campaign until there was a totally satisfactory explanation of this Great Big Sellout. He’s gonna miss my nickels and dimes, I’ll tell ya. Harrumph!!
I originally planned to give lots of time and money to Obama after the primaries. Now… not so much.
here’s what boehner was saying just last night about the dems
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb.....06-19.html
and thanks to those of you who mentioned the regina thomas/barrow race, i forgot to comment on obama backing barrow in an ad when i called his office today, will make a point to do that monday…
that soooooo disgusted me, really did.
may have to redo priorities and send her some money.
=========
epu’;d–
nice guy just called from the noriega campaign, i’m in ohio…told him i’m already on the mailing list, so, don’t call me.
told him any money i donate right now is going to expose the immunity ’yea’ voters….gave him the actblue fisa site..he liked it.also gave him firedoglake.com.
http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
and told him i used the words ’donna edwards’ a lot when calling reps and sens the last few days…
1-800-450-8293
capital switchboard
1-202-225-0100
pelosi direct line
p.s. am also sending kucinich a few bucks for his impeachment articles bravado, called his office the next day and said when i get paid, sending money, also called today to thank him for his stand on immunity….and red crescent is next in line after that.
I had assumed the Republican nay came from Ron Paul. It was Johnson of IL. Would be interested in hearing from any pups here for whom he is a rep.
Do you really think Dodd will fold? He was my last hope we need a filibuster to buy us the time we need to stop this. Obama the new boss of the Democratic Party folding was bad enough, politics of hope, candidate of change more like tired, weak and more of the Mcsame stuff different flavor.
I was ready to send him a C note last week. It now depends on what happens with the Senate version of telecom immunity capitulation.
Didn’t Dodd agree to stand down in February? I can’t remember what the deal was, but I remember thinking it was pretty damn lame.
Barbara- all best wishes to you and David (hope my name memory is correct on that one). You are juggling a lot of things. xxxooo
aaaaarrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!!! my representative voted for giving the bad guys a get out of jail free card. I had expected better of her. Called her office a couple of times this week but couldn’t find anyone on her staff who could (or would) tell me her position. I am really, really disappointed and will have to think about how to respond. I don’t think a challenger from the left could possibly get elected in this district, don’t think a primary is the answer. But I am bitterly disappointed and discouraged.
I hope not, but wouldn’t be entirely surprised. He’s on his own, pretty much. Reid, Obama, and nearly everyone else of any prominence clearly wants this thing to pass. I doubt they could withstand a cloture vote, anyway.
What’s happening? There seems to be something so foul afoot, and I just can’t get a handle on it. If you back off just a half step and look at all of this, it makes no sense. Truly! Why are the Dems in lemming lockstep?
(((Valley Girl))) Thanks!!
Here is Dodd’s statement from his website
“I cannot support the so-called ‘compromise’ legislation announced today. This bill would not hold the telecommunications companies that participated in the President’s warrantless wiretapping program accountable for their actions. Instead, it would simply offer retroactive immunity by another name.
“As I have said time and time again, the President should not be above the rule of law, nor should the telecommunications companies who supported his quest to spy on American citizens. I remain strongly opposed to this deeply flawed bill, and I urge my colleagues in Congress to join me in supporting American’s civil liberties by rejecting this measure.”
Does’t say he’ll filibuster, but it doesn’t rule it out either. I’d suggest emailing him. Here is more-or-less what I will send
“Dear Sen. Dodd,
I am an admirer and fervent supporter of your principled stands on our Constitution and the rule of law. I was greatly encouraged by your leadership in opposing the FISA legislation last time around.
The moment is here. I hope and pray that you will do everything you can, up to and including a filibuster, to keep the latest FISA bill from becoming law. You have my full support, I will do anything in my power to help. Make your father proud of you!
SIncerely yours,”
Nope.
He’s ‘Barkey…the dog who did not bark in the night…’ you do remember your Sherlock. And folks I’m sure glad to see a fighting spirit here. We are gonna need it.
We now have effectively no more rights than the citizens of Hitler’s Germany.
Habeus Corpus….nope…
Right to trial an counsel….not if’m yer an enemy combatant and such are whomever the President sez they are…
Rule of Law….shelved by the likes of Stainy the Whore in favor of the ‘Rule of Gold’.
I do hope the nation doesn’t take this laying down as little Barkey seems inclined to.
Time….way past time to give these vile scum the chop.
Before they come for us.
Eli, did you send a email thanking him? I just finished sending a thank you note to Mazie Hirono for both her nay votes on the War funding bill and the FISA capitulation bill…! ;-)
Surly, your just not seeing the happy happy message.
dmac - It was a bad day for the Obama campaign to send me a fundraising email - I unsubscribed, gave them ‘what for’ in my reason and told them not a nickel for Barry, then turned around and gave Iraq Refugee Relief a good donation. Made me feel good to be able to do good in after spending a very frustrating day realizing how much effort a lot of people had put into contacting reps..only to have them sell our Bill of rights for what amounted to a bowl of porridge.
No, thank you. Whenever I see one of your comments, it’s a huge reality check, often most needed. Hugs to both of you. xxoo
Was on the phone last night leaving messages for Blue Dems begging them not to go for telecom immunity NEVER dreaming that Obama would turn!!!! I am stunned. I knew it was a done deal, but FISA has been a pet project I have been periodically harassing my network to get active about. I heard Glenn G. on Rachel Maddow talking about how Bush got everything on his WISH LIST. How sickening. District courts will have to dismiss all such telecom cases FOREVER. Whaaaaaaa — Dems are in the majority. Why is this still happening. How comforting it must be for the fat cats. More surveillance privileges, not less. I was about to send BO money, but I am sending it to the fund agaist the Blue Dogs.
And the war … another blank check. Great about GI bill… but another no strings blank check???????
But I am yearning for my candidate to have been Edwards all over again.
I think here or here would be a much more effective place to put that hundred. Might as well start planning on what you’ll do with that money. Unless you’re a whole lot easier to please than I am, Obama isn’t getting it.
Let’s face it.Corruption so deep that it defies definition. Hubris so large the governing cannot see past their own egos.
I expect that what change has to happen is one from Ma Nature, moving humanity to the edges of the stone age, and allowing the muck of human depravity to heal.
Perhaps, someone from those times will happen upon tattered remains of the Constitution, and be fired up to re-ignite the thrill of true freedom.
I think Star Trek did an episode on this.
The 60’s Star Trek.
Or here.
Or here, for that matter.
I didn’t hear what Levin and Stabenow voted, i’ll have to check. But i’m pretty sure my rep(Ehlers) pushed it through like the good GOP lapdog he is.
Eli. OMG. You found the YATTA guys. *giggles* Probably the MOST weird thing i’ve ever seen, but at every Anime Central convention in Chicago i head to there’s ALWAYS at least one group of guys cosplaying as these shameless nuts. YATTA meansI DID IT!!!! by the way. It’s one of those anime fan injokes and just things a fan knows once they’ve been it long enough.
Quite a YouTube you got there, Eli!
Three possibilities:
1) They’re afraid of the Republicans calling them soft on terror for being unwilling to trash the Constitution.
2) They’ve totally sold out to the telecoms.
3) They’re itching to have a Democrat in the White House with unprecedented executive powers.
My money’s on 2 - so to speak.
Yeppers, and a little love for Regina Thomas while I’m at it.
No, I really should do that.
Levin voted “nay”, Stabenow gets her chance to disappoint us next week.
Is there an e-z website to check how your congressman voted?
Japanese culture is plain bizarre, and this is from someone who knows her way around it by now! And i still giggle like a loon every time i see cosplayers of this or the video itself pops up.
Can Obama admit when he has made a mistake and backpedal or is he as afraid of appearing weak as Bush?
THis FISA bill is not about principle it violates every principle we have Speech is not free if its listened too. The Press is not free if the Government Monitors it.
The FISA bill is not about the Democrats lacking the votes they are the majority its their votes that pass this bill.
Its not about the war or national security the government could spy on anyone before this bill they just needed to convince a judge that they had a reason to suspect someone.
Now I’m sure Steny likes all the cash that the telecom lobbyists are throwing his way, BUT COME ON WE THE GAVE OBAMA HOW MUCH!
Yes we the Netroots, Young People anyone with a computer who dared to believe! We gave more than all those Lobbyists gave Hilary or McCain! Does Steny think he can screw us and that we will keep giving?
Does Obama think that? I hope the MSM ask the Democratic Talking Heads that question!
No more cash from me Obama until I see something that makes it worth it. Blue America Only! No Democratic Party!
I love Yatta. They’re on my iPod, even.
toby at 56–i think you weren’t the only one to unsubscribe to obama’s campaign today from what i’ve read around the blogosphere.
i have to tell you, him backing barrow by making an ad for him irked me as much as him not speaking out on telco immunity sooner……lieberman/lamont camaign all over again…….how dare he do this again!!
kucinich’s staff today–they were a joy to talk to, called twice cuz i forgot something…….i wanna work THERE. gave them the actblue fisa fundraising address, along with everyone else i called, said he might get a kick informing his ’yea’ voter comrades about the ads that are going to be run against them…..lol…..
off to sleep, take care pups.
http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....=h2008-437
If only they *were* listening…
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll437.xml
Levin, no. Ehlers, yes.
Stabenow? mia
Oh, lordy, that’s my fear, too. Just got a note from the Obama folks to whom I’d sent my pissy little screed. Now it is necessary to communicate with them via a webform. Which gave me a moment to polish my pissiness:
More harrumph.
Cujo posted the link at 39…!
*grin* Just plain viral, isn’t it?
I went to hear a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate from my state last night. When he took questions, I asked him a question that was admittedly complex, since I didn’t think I would get a second chance. I referenced the Bush administration’s assaults on the Constitution: Guantanamo, habeas corpus, spying on Americans without warrants, telecom immunity, etc. He gave a good general answer about how in times of war we tend to sacrifice our civil liberties in the name of security, when they should be the rights that we are fighting to protect. But I was disappointed that he did not address telecom immunity. I am going to call his campaign headquarters and pin them down as to where he stands on this. It will have a significant bearing on what campaigns I choose to devote my efforts to this year. One of them was going to be my Congresswoman who voted with the bad guys today. Now, I think not.
Ever the contrarian, I see a sliver of hope in Sec. 802(a)(B):
(B) the subject of a written request or directive . . . indicating that the activity was (i) authorized by the President; and (ii) determined to be lawful.
Now a judge could look at that and read that immunity is granted if the president has determined the actions to be legal, or a judge could look at that and say “ok, the president authorized it - now *I’m* gonna decide whether or not it was legal, because that hasn’t been examined yet”.
It’s a longshot, but, hey, if there weren’t different ways to interpret statutes, lawyers wouldn’t be necessary - every matter could be handled by some colossal computer.
Also, isn’t this immunity only for acts *after* 9-11-2001? Seems to me I’ve heard some rumblings/rumors(?) that it started prior to that.
Fuck ‘em - fight ‘em…
Boy is my congressman going to get an earful.
I was too angry today to even call.
“Saint Peter don’t you call me ’cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to the company store.”
AT&T, that is…
Thanks Tw3k. Now i know who to prod. Talking to Ehlers is like bashing my head against a brick wall, though.
Eli….BTW…..Loved the Yatta clip!!! I needed to laugh….. helped as counterpoint of events of today!
Thanks, CTuttle.
Nobody reads Post 75. :D
Actually 129 exceptions - including our newest Blue America Rep Donna Edwards. Her vote is not included in the tallies and she’s not on the list yet but she voted NAY. Yay
She made me proud already.
Yeah but… didn’t the house bill signify a certain federal court to have jusrisdiction? (Sorry, happy hour took forever to get here, but thank doG, it did.) And if so,just how stacked is that court?
I think you might consider holding on to that hundred for now. You may need to invest it in therapeutic ethanol after all is said and done in the next few weeks. We already know Reid won’t honor a hold from a Democrat, while a wingnut hold is inviolate.
We also know while Mrs. Chao can stop any piece of legislation dead in it’s tracks, poor old Harry is powerless to impede in the slightest the inevitability of a bill like this piece of FISA shit. The Rs can merely threaten to filibuster with their minority, would work for us the last 6 years, but damn is it effective now! Cloture, can’t stop it if it’s bad. can’t do it if it’s good! wtf?
My congressasshole is Trent Franks. Nothing to reason with there.
One might almost get the impression that we progressives are the enemy, instead of the Republicans.
From Obama’s resume:
1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional law at the University of Chicago
Law School.
http://obamasresume.org/
All that legal wisdom ignored - swept aside - in hopes of gaining immense power, so that he can then do what?
Screw us over some more?
Sage advice, that.
LOL (sorta)
Internets have been down afew days. Don’t know what that was about but not everybody in this house is as computer impaired as me, so it’s fixed and the Fartman is back.
Thanks to everybody to the links to the roll call.
Eli, you really think this “is transparent bullshit that fools no-one ” ??? I think you’re half right. But alot of perople are fooled or just don’t give a shit. I gota be honest, I don’t remember the details of the proposals on the last go ’round, but this one strikes me as worse. maybe because it passed and as Eli says, doesn’t change a good Goddamned thing. This judicial review thing is an insult to te judiciary (and us). Ok, you guys win. Just give them fucking retrocative immunity and get rid of this bullshit procedure.
Are you just now figuring that out?
Actually, I just bookmarked it…! It’s a better site than the thomas clerk site…! ;-)
Love Post 75 chart. Thank you!!
So BO can afford to drift to the right for voters since we are a sure thing now?
Ah, Tuttle reads Post #75! :-)
I too just unsubscribed to the Obama website. Very easy to do (took about 30seconds). Just open your most recent email, click unsubscribe and enter your address and your reason.
Now, Hoyer and Pelosi take Telco money - though they are not the worst - Hoyer got $12500 from ATT, Verizon and XO - Pelosi just has been raking it in from not only ATT and Verizon, but $22K from various Telco Services like TMobile and Verizon Wireless and $49,500 from people like Time Warner and others in the more internet/entertainment part of the communications industry. On teh other hand, if you want the absolute worst in terms of Telco Utility money: McCain($322,795), Clinton($223,092), Obama($185,890), Giuliani($50,600), Rahm Emmanuel ($49,450), Rockefeller($48,00) and Ron Paul($39,950).
You’re right, they’re assuming that the media will go along with the ruse and help them snow the low-information voters. Worked for Lieberman.
But see, here’s the problem. It’s not drifting to the right. It’s sinking down. Worse by far.
Well no.
Are “they” blurring the issue here with the phrase “no immunity protection for anyone in the government?” Who said this, Hoyer or Blunt?
I heard all House members are up for reelection this fall. Time to lose a few of them.
This issue is important to me and I am still looking at Nader.
forgot–starbuck, nice link at 75-will make my thank you calls monday a lot easier….
It’s politics not principles.
They sell out sooo cheap!
Yep, it’s the money.
marathon joke, for those not familiar.
Yep - so much for Pelosi’s whining about “There’s nothing we could do about this…blah, blah, blah” That woman has her head so deep into the trough, I’m amazing she can hear anything — I’m sure the stuff is in her ears.
shit. links aren’t working for me. Honey!! I need help with the computer again!!!!!
the Lords have most in common with other Lords, the Peasants have most in common with other Peasants.
there is a sector of Peasants who fervently believe the Least Worst Lords should be idolized and doted upon and supported, volunteering themselves to beat back slanders from other Lordly factions, paying over and above their tithe to the Least Worst Lords, imagining the Lords plotting good deeds and presents for the nice peasants, but being defeated in these noble efforts by the wily Bad Lords.
Actually, they are all up int their castles and manors together, getting sloshed and telling peasant jokes, and scheming to enhance the power of their class.
The whole FISA charade and kabuki sure was a teaching moment, wasn’t it?
To find a site, I typed “congressional vote HR 6304″ into Google. The first link worked great. :-)
” There is nothing we can do about this” what about “Yes we can! “
Just sent this to Nancy:
Dear Madam Speaker,
I strongly feel that the Democratic Party in control of the House of Representatives hurt the US Constitution today by passing the FISA bill. Your chamber supported the criminality of the Bush Administration and sold out the American people for telecom company donations to your campaigns. Democratic congressional members should be ashamed of what they did. Cowards.
Sincerely,
AZ Matt
Closing the door after the horse has left the barn… .
You know what I really worry about? That if we become too much of a bother to TPTB, that they will shut down the internet. Who will stand up for us? Certainly not the repubs, FoxNews already rails against the evil internet. But what dems will we have? Will the Dem Leaders join the repubs like they did today? It would make their lives easier.
your on ie, right?
aol
While looking at the list of Nays, I noticed an interesting factoid. There are 51 Dem women and 22 Rep women in the House. All the Rep women voted in favor, of course. Of the 51 Dem women, 38 voted Nay, and the 13 remaining ones voted in favor - including Pelosi and Harman. Most of the rest of the yes female votes were high seniority, leadership types.
This leads me to a couple of possible conclusions.
1) The leadership knew all about the illegal wiretapping etc when it started, and they are involved in it up to their necks. Although Hoyer et al claim the bill doesn’t immunize ‘any government officials’ other legal minds (Emptywheel, GG) say otherwise. As does Jonathan Turley. So this whole thing was about covering collective a**es. One and all.
2) Rank and file women are much better progressives than the men as a percentage. SO….more and better Dems - and let’s make sure a whole bunch of them are GOOD, STRONG, WOMEN!!!
I see HuffPo has 2140 comments on their FISA story.
Just unsubscribed from Obama’s emails, too. This needs to go viral. I don’t have a blog, but I hope any of you that do, push this idea.
Don’t know, Solai - but I did write those letters to the Post Standard, Cortland Standard and Binghamton Press-Sun Bulletin about Arcuri(and Walsh and Hinchey).
Did Donna Edwards vote on this today?
As long as the Lords are our only choice (and they will be for the foreseeable future), then we might as well support the least bad ones. Doesn’t mean we’re happy about it.
Yeah but… didn’t the house bill signify a certain federal court to have jusrisdiction? (Sorry, happy hour took forever to get here, but thank doG, it did.) And if so,just how stacked is that court?
I just pulled up the entire bill. I should be able to answer that question by, oh, Sunday night?
I’m gonna need about a dozen high-liters, copious amounts of caffeine, hot
and coldrunning female law clerks, an 24-7 staff of Swedish masseuses, Gatorade and a carton of Marlboro Reds…Yes, she voted NAY
Any idea in terms of how long those ‘nay’ sayer females have been there? Perhaps they were not there when the Gang of 8 got involved…
If they were going to do it don’t you think it would have already happened?
Or is this just the precursor to the telecoms power to make the internet a tiered, corrupt instrument? Who is in charge of the country? It ain’t the politicians.
I have a blog and as soon as I can, I will do this. Which is going to bring the total scorn of the Hillary people down on my pathetic shoulders, but I can take it.
We had a local meeting here in Portland about upcoming changes proposed for the city. Objectors were met with essentially the same argument.
I’s quite weak. I mean follow the logic. If we are screwed for not speaking out and screwed if we do. I’ll damn well shout, all the way to the gallows, if need be! Let the (cow) chips fall where they may!!
Yes she did. NAY!
What else can we get you, sir? ;)
If they shut down the net, well we leave pack, give some real estate firm the keys so they can sell the home for us and we get out.
I am not going to live in a modern day Nazi Germany waiting for our rights to be taken away one by one until one day we can’t leave.
Yes they did, and that’s what they are using to say the bill is “better”. However, it also instructs the court that as long as the Pretendsident says it was legal - they can do nothing but dismiss the case. And if the Pretendsident says its a secret, the plaintiff and their lawyer(s) cannot even find out why it was dismissed.
The BlueAmerica PAC is over $285,000. They’ve raised their goal to half a million. No doubt they’ll get it when the Senate votes. It’s become a 2 week outrage.
any difference?
Damn jayt, you’d do that for me?
; )
fuk that, take it to him
http://my.barackobama.com/page.....w3k/gG5Srg
i have loptsa highliters — pink, yellow, green, orange — I’ll get the coffee. You take care of the law clerks and I can help you with this.
We can always ununsubscribe after he does the right thing.
Good! Time to send her another donation for the general election.
Knowing that we are considered THE ENEMY by the Beltway Brainwashed puts a little more finese in ideas to overthrow the empire. It gives one a, shall we say, different perpective. Kathy Castor (D, FL-11) took a gerrymandered Dem district on a fairly progressive platform. In Feb she voted for PPA and today voted for FISA. It didn’t take long to turn her, if she needed any turning at all. That said, the real enemy is the money. Suzanne spoke of Saul Alinsky’s method of giving folks the bottom line. Money = bottom line. To get rid of the money we have to get rid of those who are influenced by it. Not a small task, by any measurement.
You mean re-subscribe?
Well, I’m not familiar with all the names - but many of the Nay sayers (like that!) were Blue America candidates in 2006 like Tammy Baldwin. I’ll have to do some more research on the rest of them. Joe Sestak voted yes unfortunately.
I’m too worn out to do it all today - I just noticed the heavy female Nay vote so thought I’d actually do an analysis on it and it was quite interesting for a quickie.
*applause*
Well, Pups - it’s been a really really long day. Time to recharge - there will be another battle.
Here’s a highlighter and a pot of Columbian. er, coffee.
Get to work.
I’m (initially) reading it as directions to District Court(s) - but none being specifically designated. At first glance, I missed the precise role of the FISA court…
I never thought the next time I would say the inevitable, “What fresh hell is this?” … it would be about BO. Oy vey.
Yeah, but not as funny.
Obama: “I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution.”
Ha. Ha.
Yeah, we have to remember that its been 30-40 years getting to this point and we are not going to be able to undo it in just one election cycle.
We aren’t well enough organized yet - and not well-enough funded. We need some media to call our own, and an over-arching PLAN like the Rethugs have.
Or to take the money out of the process, so politicians don’t need corporations to get elected.
Only two teensy little problems:
1) It would require incumbents to vote against a status quo which heavily favors incumbents.
2) They can probably still be swayed by lobbyist-paid fancy lunches and golf outings and overseas junkets, although I suppose those could (should) be banned too.
Anyone remark on this story that now that Guantanamo detainees have habeas rights the government wants time to rewrite their cases against them?
http://www.time.com/time/polit.....33,00.html
Boy, I am THICK!!
Just so we don’t forget whose actions have irreparably fouled our: (choose one) world, Constitution, environment, political process, world standing, military, economy, human rights, civil rights, judiciary, take a look at this lovely photo of Narcissus, gazing at his own lovely self.
*g*
Their task remains to approve warrants - that is IF anyone deigns to ask for one after this. HA!
same with Jerry McNerney.
I saw heard today a Molly Ivins quote, “The lesser of two evils is less evil.”
jayt, don’t knock yourself out for an enebriated menopausal goof who thought she may have heard something! Unless of course, you want to…
I didn’t mean to imply that we should stifle our outrage to be less of a nuisance. But, I do worry about net-neutrality and today’s vote proved that a dem majority is no guarantee of anything.
Except for one. They have announced his trial will start on October 8. He’s the one we picked up when he was 15 - should be treated as a child-soldier and repatriated. But of course, he’s 21 now so we’re trying him as an adult/terrorist.
The water is roiled. Even the reflection isn’t working!
Haha!
Been a long day, hasn’t it?
I just decided to start my own late night a little early.
Feh. I invented a word for this trick of pretending to get a progressive to get netroots/grassroots dollars to get into office, and then going totally corporate to stay there: Rootstrapping.
careful with the menopausal jab. I AM MENOPAUSAL DAMN IT!
Isn’t that a really bad omen?
It shows once and for all that Democrats were not just spectators to the last 7 years but willing participants.
Today, more like rootcrapping!
Pups, I’ve hit the wall. I expect you to have this all resolved by the time I check back in the morning, okay? (((fdl pups)))
links are working. thanks. checked out the roll call. very depressing. we got our asses kicked, huh? we got noticed though and kept this from going through long time ago when =everybody thought all the ducks were in a row. fought the good fight and all.
Here’s a highlighter and a pot of Columbian. er, coffee.
Get to work.
The lack of masseuses could be a deal-breaker….
John Dean said on KO that the thing is poorly written, which is no surprise since it’s by definition a “compromise” bill. I bet I could crack it, but I wanna see what the Senate does first.
And, evidently I need to get out a classified ad, since nobody’s offering hot law clerks and/or Swedish masseuses.
Not ALL of them - just the leadership.
*G*
Someone once asked me how I deal with the mood swings.
I said “That’s easy, I get moody!”
What? There is nothing in the pills for Bitch? :D
Well said!
working. thanks.
I don’t think those god damned rootstrappers understand what happens when the roots get pissed. People with nothing to lose can be quit unpredictable.
Now I know there is “mind control” in DC.
I will be interested to see who can acquire ’standing’ to sue over some of unconstitutionality of parts of this so the ACLU and other interested parties can have at it immediately.
I’d like to see a stay of the immunity portion too so we can block it hopefully.
Thank doG I don’t have to take bitch pills.
Comes naturally. *g*
Anyone familiar with the Rezko business wouldn’t find this the least surprising.
Well, the calculation is that once they tap into that corporate gravy train, they no longer need us peons for anything.
O gee, I thought I offered.
wanted s/f/law clerk
My point exactly. The problem is getting people into office who will not succumb to the power and money addictions. Once there they want to stay there. They’re the ones who will have to pass legislation taking money out of politics. And we’re right back where we started. More and better Democrats on organic steroids.
Saw that at TPM. Sounds like they are running scared.
Someone needs to find out how Dennis Kucinich did it. He certainly has not succumbed and he keeps getting re-elected even when the media says his whole District is ‘mad at him’.
So - I move we find out what it is that he has and figure out how to identify it in others…
Nothing to lose?
Ooops! Wrong Post!
It was meant for marymccurnin”
“careful with the menopausal jab. I AM MENOPAUSAL DAMN IT!”
Dang! No erase to history!
Speaking of Ron Paul, guess how managed not to be at that vote.
Yeah, this is why I’m skeptical about significant campaign finance reform happening. We would either need a *ton* of idealistic, incorruptible Democrats in Congress, or there would have to be such ravenous, borderline violent demand for it that no-one would dare vote against it.
Frankly, I have a hard time imagining either scenario, although the second is slightly more likely.
A former student of Obama:
“Professor Barack Obama reminded me that whatever my beliefs were, I’d have to find a way to implement them in the real world if I wanted to make change happen. Good lesson. Great professor.”
Well, my idea, Professor, is that I want corporations that break the law not to get immunity from the law (I know, I know, it’s a radical concept).
How do I implement that, Barack! I need to know!
I will be interested to see who can acquire ’standing’ to sue over some of unconstitutionality of parts of this
The AG of the next administration?
The leadership and a lot of the rank and file. To say the leadership is to use a few bad apples. It took many, many apples to produce the last 7 years.
I doubt mary has to take bitch pills either.
*ducks*
I tried to email Jerry McNerney. You have to use a zip code in his district so I used the zip code from his office address. Wasn’t good enough. Had to be nine digits. So he has built a firewall to save himself from possijble netroot email assaults. Fuckery.
ACLU, perhaps.
I feel the same way about getting rid of electronic voting machines.
I think I need lessons from Steve Martin!
Those aren’t so much biased towards incumbents in general, though.
I always use a Pizza Hut or Domino’s in the District for the zip code. This method id fool proof, as it has been tested by a fool that I know, so you can feel perfectly safe with this particular recommendation.
So we’re now using the Republicant variation of the adjective?
Zip codes by city.
The ACLU can be the attorneys but they have to have a ‘client’. The next AG won’t be it either - they are an ‘attorney’ and would need a client as well. I suppose the AG’s client is the government but that would be the government trying to sue itself and that’s a non-starter.
Judging from recent SCOTUS crap - it would have to be someone either harmed or potentially harmed by this and it is really difficult to show harm if you cannot prove you were spied on because it’s a government secret.
From your cited article:
The Bush administration wants to rewrite the official evidence against Guantanamo Bay detainees, allowing it to shore up its cases before they come under scrutiny by civilian judges for the first time.
No, *that* won’t catch the attention of a judge… heh.
If nothing else, the Bush administration is gonna provide law schools with examples of “here’s how you DON’T do it for years to come. aka “Lawyerin’
forby Dummies”.It’ll have to start in the states. There are a couple publicly funded election states but I don’t remember which they are. That’s sorta a long drawn out version of your second scenario. And probably the most likely. After that federal elections should, there’s a should for ya, fall into line.
Well, yeah. Except Republican ones…
*wonders off in search of beer*
Actually the ‘judge’ part is all taken care of. The judge originally scheduled to start the ‘trials’ was making the prosecution fork over documents and provide info to the defense/detainees and expressing concern about the detainees rights. He’s gone and they got a new guy. He’s fast-tracking stuff - in fact he is known for precisely that and no worries about evidence and all that, just ‘giter-dun’.
wow.. my congresscritter just put up the following press release:http://www.house.gov/susandavis/press/pr062008fisa.shtml
“This bill raises ongoing concerns about civil liberties and the precedent of retroactive immunity. The blanket provisions in the bill would subject Americans to invasions of privacy. And it would keep Americans from learning the truth about the actions of the Administration and telecommunications companies. In the end, I did not feel that the underlying bill represents most Americans’ values.”
I think I’m going to write her a nice note.
Most of them aren’t even whole states yet. There are several districts and local elections in New Jersey, Maryland, 3 counties in Arizona, and a few more scattered around different places. But you are right - it has to start at the bottom and work its way up. Everywhere they have them the candidates really like them and where they are they are spreading fast once the word gets around.
I looked up McNerney’s nine digit zip code and used his own address. Here is the text of my message:
You have shamed yourself voting against the constitution and the American people and voting with the republicans and for immunity for the telecoms. I will work to find a real democrat to replace you.
If I said “I hate to say I told you so”, I’d be lying.
You all demanded you’re “magical unity pony” — well guess what? You got it. And Steny Hoyer, and Rahm Emmanual, and Jello Hay Rockefeller are the guys holding the reigns….
“OMG! It’s coming from INSIDE THE OFFICE!!!”
You’re talking about a specific trial, or trials if you will, of KSM and two others, I believe. I’m talking about habeas review…
Did anyone see KO tonight?
John Dean was on the show — and instead of being all sky-is-falling, he sounded rather calm about this.
Why? Because he said that it looked like the FISA bill does seem to give the telcos a pass on civil liability, it does nothing to protect them from criminal prosecution for violating laws that were and still are on the books. Which means that the Justice Department under, say, somebody other than Bush or McCain would be able to go after the telcos with no problem.
Legal people, does it look that way to you?
ayt, don’t knock yourself out for an enebriated menopausal goof who thought she may have heard something!
Hey, who am I to complain?
I seem to remember some good-looking guy, with the same screen name as mine (hmmm…?) advising you at about 10:00 this morning to begin drinking heavily…
The aspens are turning. The roots are inside. The world is upside down. But I still love you.
It’s a song.
I wrote my Congressman a thank you note too. He was the only Republican to vote against the FISA bill. After seeing what he has voted for over the years, I was stunned.
Excellent! We should organize a day per stupid rep and everyone do it that way. Use their own address (most of them have those firewalls for anyone not in their district) and all write them letters on the same day.
Congress is playing a large role in shaping the public perception of data in the “Information Age,” but most Members won’t take any responsibility for that. Congress has thrown open the door to opportunists who want to be at the bleeding/cutting edge of technological possibilities, pushing the envelope. Aside from the relatively few idealists who view emerging technology primarily as a race with the bad guys, most of the opportunists are in for the contracts, the patents, the symbiotic relationships that may produce future benefits. Secrecy is their friend once they enter the complex.
The tamping down of expectations of privacy in relation to crime and national security has serious consequences elsewhere. A great many users of the Internet and telecommunications, including children and youth, believe that there’s it’s game over on privacy, and do not research or implement measures that can be taken to minimize risks. Those who don’t take protective measures leave themselves more exposed to crooks, mischief-makers, and stalkers than is necessary. Congress is contributing to the what’s-the-use attitude, discouraging security while pretending to advance security.
I like the sound of it.
I don’t think they should be allowed to have firewalls - especially since they don’t pay any attention to their e-mails anyway. We all pay their salaries and they should have to hear from us.
Sorry. I was referencing a specific trial (not KSM or his two ‘friends’) but yes.
But the precedent for putting a judge in charge who will do what you want is already there. I’m just sayin’ the issue of a judge is not a stumbling block to this bunch of crooks. They get one of their cronies and voila!
I hate those firewalls for two reasons. Their votes effect everyone. If they don’t want to hear from us then they are hiding.
David L over at DKOS got Conyers on the phone and raised some interesting Democratic collusion questions for the chairman. You can listen to the conversation here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....100/538912
- Tom
Since the Dem leadership is so eager to appear not “soft on terror”, I see little reason to think they won’t cave just as easily on September’s inevitable “Iran War Resolution”.
Legal people, does it look that way to you?
Well, there *is* this clause:
No cause of action shall lie in any court against any electronic communication service provider for providing any information… etc.
Which seems to rule out criminal cases too.
But I know I saw contradictory language somewhere else - gimme a minute.
Probably just pushed the wrong button.
That’ll just be a strategic decision so they can move on to those important domestic issues.
Paul Kane in WAPO:
…yup….rootstrapping.
Bless your heart.
Good thing I held off, or I would have been passed out by 2:00.
John Cusack on KO re the war: “some things are so egregious….” :)
Correction:
“…A great many users of the Internet and telecommunications, including children and youth, believe that
there’sit’s game over on privacy,….aw hell, can’t find it now. But there’s another paragraph somewhere which limits immunity to civil cases.
Two clauses directly at odds - not unusual - the legislation purporting to strip habeas had inherent contradictions too.
Thought about you when I heard him say that!
Thanks for the post and thread tonight, Eli.. I missed a lot of the action during the day… needed to read and vent some more on this tonight.
I didn’t & I haven’t, but I may not make any sense! btw, Monty Python marathon on BBC!
maybe we get the telcos to tap Cheney’s phone and finally find out what his energy taskforce is all about :P
Well, Conyers is one of the few in this despicable bunch who actually seems to be trying in some small way to ferret out information about the criminal acts.
My pleasure. Sort of.
I wish there had been a different topic.
Time Warner? What channel?
Digby’s anger today:
so now only are these people writing and passing fascist legislation but the fascist legislation is poorly written… which mean, by the way, that the shrubco Federal agencies get to “interpret them” assuming they can write rules that quickly.. before their president turns into a pumpkin at year’s end.
268
Love it, she gives The Rude One a run for his money.
There’s all this technology, yet John Q. Public almost need to be a fly on the wall to learn anything anymore.
Did you all hear about the latest Senate Republican stunt?
Committees by rules of order are supposed to end their meetings two hours after the Senate is gaveled into session. Unless by unanimous consent of the members thereby extending that deadline. In the history of the Senate, this consent is given routinely as a matter of courtesy and is pretty pro-forma.
Until now, that is. The Rethugs are refusing to grant unanimous consent and so all the investigative committees are having to dismiss witnesses, and end their meeting at the two-hour mark, sometimes right in the middle of testimony by people who have traveled on their own dime to get there.
What a bunch of pigs.
Pigs they are but they certainly know how to game the system and use every advantage. The Dems could take lessons.
Just what he doctor ordered, thanks!
They have been - weren’t you watching the last two days? Secret backroom deals, not letting the rest of the House see the bill until the last minute, etc etc etc.
actually, courts are called in where there are contradictions like this - and those courts look for “legislative intent”.
Which is a standard more likely to be cause for pessimism than optimism.
Of course, one can always hope for a finding of “unconstitutionally vague”…
(and that attorney fees awarded include a pony).
Ahhh! Thanks, that’s the 2 hour rule thing I heard invoked last week but couldn’t find any info on.
I just figured out a ‘client’ for the ACLU to bring a lawsuit over this. We need a petition to the ACLU to get a ‘class’ certified. The class will be all 300 million citizens of this country. There!
what class? how?
I’d like to see the Dems fight dirty for the right reasons, tho.
Good point.
And against the right people…
Evening, Suz!
Geez hoss, n you think the OTHER candidate was any less of a privacy slayer?
Any MORE of a supporter of the gay rights issues?
A real progressive looking for change?
HAH!
Yer a bit bitter this early on methinks . . . .
You wanna be pissed off?
How about you start with Pelosi, SciFi, Boxer and Matsui?
N finish with Reid, Hoyer? And any OTHER numbers of House and Senate traitors?
I’d like to send them ALL to a Devil’s Island in the Georgia swamps.
And elect REAL democrats in their place.
But to dump on Obama at THIS point?
Please. It’s early. And we’ll have PLENTY of time and room to nitpik and impeach him if he goes Pub on us all . . . .
But for now, there’s an election to win, and house and senate seats to focus on.
Save the Prez Snark for later on, will ya?
And for the people.
Hiya Suz!
Thanks. As you mentioned 128 Democrats voted against the FISA abomination. 105 voted in favor.
Here’s is the list of the 128. I would invite everyone who has free long distance to call EACH of the 128. They are heroes and made the right vote under difficult circumstances.
Abercrombie, Allen, Andrews, Baldwin, Becerra, Blumenauer, Brady (PA), Braley (IA), Capps, Capuano, Carnahan, Carson, Clarke, Clay, Cohen, Conyers
Costello, Courtney, Cummings, Davis (CA), Davis (IL), DeFazio, DeGette, Delahunt, DeLauro, Dingell, Doggett, Doyle, Edwards (MD), Ellison, Eshoo, Farr, Fattah, Filner, Foster, Frank (MA), Gonzalez, Grijalva, Hall (NY), Hare, Hill, Hinchey, Hirono, Hodes, Holt, Honda, Hooley, Inslee, Israel
Jackson (IL), Jackson-Lee (TX), Jefferson, Johnson (GA), Johnson (IL)
Johnson, E. B., Jones (OH), Kagen, Kaptur, Kennedy, Kilpatrick, Kucinich
Larsen (WA), Larson (CT), Lee, Levin, Lewis (GA), Loebsack, Lofgren, Zoe
Lynch, Maloney (NY), Markey, Matsui, McCollum (MN), McDermott, McGovern
McNulty, Meek (FL), Michaud, Miller (NC), Miller, George, Mollohan
Moore (WI), Moran (VA), Murphy (CT), Nadler, Napolitano, Neal (MA), Oberstar, Obey, Olver, Pallone, Pascrell, Pastor, Payne, Price (NC)
Rangel, Rothman, Roybal-Allard, Ryan (OH), Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta, Sarbanes, Schakowsky, Schwartz, Scott (VA), Serrano
Shea-Porter, Slaughter, Solis, Speier, Sutton, Thompson (CA), Tierney
Towns, Tsongas, Udall (NM), Van Hollen, Velázquez, Walz (MN), Wasserman Schultz, Waters, Watson, Watt, Waxman, Weiner, Welch (VT), Wexler
Woolsey, Wu
If you don’t have free long distance, please email them a thank you, as you get time.
How about they come to your house and disappear you?
They can do that you know.
Americans now have the same rights as Germans under Hitler.
We’ll see if this is the ‘Land of the Free…’ once that sinks in.
Thanks, Boo.
I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know all the technicalities, but my impression (just my impression) is that an individual probably cannot get standing to sue over this wiretapping because you would have to prove that you individually had been wiretapped.
However, if we could get a class certified of all citizens, then an individual proof would not be necessary since by definition, the FISA Amending law says they can surveille anyone, and by default, that ‘anyone’ would be a member of the class. The government’s burden would be to prove that no one in the entire class was being surveilled.
Of course, the difficulty would be in getting the class certified so they could proceed.
Dahling, you look mahvilous!
dear mods - i have a long comment to post on today’s vote. and it will surely trip the filters as it has 9 links. my apologies.
I hope the Swedes have better luck in their fight than we did today.
Wonder if a third party will form after the election. The Constitutionalist Party or some such.
LIST OF TOLL FREE CONGRESS SWITCHBOARD PHONE NUMBERS
1-800-828-0498
1-800-459-1887
1-800-614-2803
1-866-340-9281
1-866-338-1015
1-866-220-0044
1-877-851-6437
Where’s Late Nite?
Trouble in the Toobz?
There is already a Constitution Party. You don’t even want to know how far right they are - they are so far out there they have practically made a complete circle back to the left. Only not.
“I’ve been proud to stand with Senator Dodd in his fight against retroactive immunity for the telecommunications industry. Secrecy and special interests must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens – and set an example to the world – that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient. Because in America – no one is above the law.”
Yup. That made a lot of sense!
late nite will be up shortly
Hey, where have you been, Larue? Saw you on Greenwald, I think…
Okay, didn’t know that. What name would the new party have…
I would like the “Restoration” Party or something like that. You know, Restoration of our Constitution, our laws, our checks and balances, etc.
Just finished watching. Didn’t turn out any better than our battle today.
unclaimed late nite zed upstairs
oh shoot. all my nice html lists are nonsense to fdl :(
it will take a moment to convert.
Wow, I come back from dinner and yet another long thread on this …
I still want to bring back the Progressive party … these two parties are WAY too sold out to corporate interests
Question: are there Democrats who deserver our support?
this is an update from an earlier post today.
First, it is a tentative list - I’m still soliciting corrections.
Second, a description of the list - How to determine who among the house Democrats genuinely opposed today’s FISA bill? Since today’s vote was a sham vote, we can only be sure of the intention of those who voted for H.R.6304. Those who voted against it may or may not have been expressing a true desire to see the bill fail (since they knew it would pass and it was therefore “safe” to vote no).
However, we do have a clue who really opposed the worst aspects of the proposed FISA legislation because twice some members of the progressive caucus and others like Rush Holt challenged their own party’s leadership to kill a bad bill. The first time this happened was on October 17, 2007 when, among other things, progressives including Rush Holt refused to back the leadership’s bill (this was the Restore Act version 1) forcing the bill to be withdrawn and improved before they would support it (compare these two youtubes of Rush Holt speaking from the House Floor on version 1 and version 2 of the Restore Act). Unfortunately, since the bill was withdrawn before a vote was taken, we don’t know who opposed it. The second time though, we do know.
On February 13, 2008 the House leadership attempted a second extension of the PAA, this time for 21 days. It was defeated when progressives and others like Rush Holt (see his youtube) joined with the Republicans (and some Blue Dogs) to vote against it. The difficulty with this vote is that we don’t know which Democrats voted against the extension because they joined with Republicans to play games and which Democrats genuinely opposed it. The defeat of this PAA extension derailed the Senate bill because once the PAA expired and nothing horrible happened it took the urgency away from the rush to pass a bill that included immunity for the telcos.
What I’ve done is to take the list of all Democrats who voted against (or didn’t vote) the PAA extension in February and cross referenced them with the Blue Dog coalition (BD), the Progressive Caucus (P) and with “NO” votes (N) on today’s FISA bill, H.R.6304.
If we count the number of Democrats who did not vote for the PAA extension in February and who voted again H.R.6304 today (and I’ve added in Donna Edwards since she wasn’t in congress in February but campaigned against bad FISA legislation), we are left with 30 Democrats (in bold below). I submit that, for people who care about this issue, they are the only Democrats who deserve any support from us.
Below is the current, tentative version of the list. I hope it is of help to all who reject both the call to condemn all Democrats because the leadership is corrupt and the call to continue to support the Democrats because there are few good ones.
voted against the PAA extension in Feb:
Jason Altmire
Dan Boren - BD
Leonard Boswell - BD
Michael Capuano - P - N
Jerry Costello - N
Lincoln Davis - BD
Peter DeFazio - P - N
Lloyd Doggett - N
Bob Filner - P - N
John Hall - P - N
Maurice Hinchey - P - N
Rush Holt - *** - N
Dennis Kucinich - P - N
Barbara Lee - P - N John Lewis - P - N
Tim Mahoney - BD
James Moran - N
Patrick Murphy - BD
Christopher Murphy - N
Frank Pallone - N
Bill Pascrell - N
Donald Payne - P - N
Collin Peterson - BD
Steven Rothman - N
Loretta Sanchez - BD - N
John Sarbanes - N
Jan Schakowsky - P - N
Jose Serrano - P - N
Tom Udall - P - N
Timothy Walz - N
Maxine Waters - P - N
Melvin Watt - P - N
Lynn Woolsey - P - N
David Wu - N
did not vote on the PAA extension in Feb:
Ruben Hinojosa
Mike Honda - P - N
Nita Lowey
Solomon Ortiz
Dutch Ruppersberger
Edolphus Towns - N
notes:
1. *** Rush Holt while not a member of the Progressive Caucus gets special mention for fighting harder than anyone else in congress on this issue.
2. republican Tim Johnson voted no today
3. Donna Edwards (MD)
damn. and now i’m epu’ed.
it’s just been a hell of a day.
p.s. many thanks dear mods!
We just have to start talking about the taboo subject, what they scream about soon as the conversation comes near it. The proverbial fart in church. Class warfare, even Warren Buffett acknowledges it not only is taking place, but that his side is winning.
Republicans accuse one of it at the drop of a hat and attempt to silence any discussion of this topic. We need to talk about it, get it into the public square. Asshole;es like Rush Limbaugh, Niel Boorts, etal, keep so many of these folks dissuaded from doing what is in their own best interests. Class warfare is how we take it back, we all know this. It is what unites us all, beyond all racial and social boundaries.
yikes !
this is what we were discussing at dinner - thinkin we’d have to start in the wonkier sites - damn Selise, you’ve executed it perfectly. right here at home
thank you very much
kinda difficult to step away from the choreographed nature of this tragedy and what that portends for the Senate now aint it
excellent
you think this is bad? you should have seen me and pow wow and several others after the house kabuki last summer when the house leadership engineered passage of the PAA. (here’s the diary that was the result of that exercise).
thanks for the encouragement. i’m really bummed that i posted it in epu land. but i’m not going to repost it now - it’s way to long as it is.
ooh bonus - had no access to toobz then so yeah - layering one on top of the other will sharpen the focus
a lot of people don’t see it yet - many actually think this was election year anxiety about terra terra terra (yeah at 24% JAR)
helluva day, so many painfully unamerican aspects to the events -
thank you again for your work
Great job and I will use this list for calling and leaving thank you messages. Once we start memorizing names and addressing them as individuals, the good, the bad, and the ugly, momentum will grow even stronger. Thanks for the leg work. Activisim is about walking the walk as well as talking…
Or they were spied on and then blackmailed. I have always thought that Dems were spied on too.
eli, it will break my heart if Dodd backs away, effective or not.
Hey, all you Hopey changey guys and gals, egg on your face much?
We knew that this was coming from the craven clan of Nancy and Harry but was anybody really surprised by obama’s statement? I mean, come on, after the Campaign Finance flipperoo.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
I unsubscbribed to Obama’s email when they asked for a donation. In the “reason for unsubscribing” box, I just wrote: “FISA.” I figured that summed it up pretty well.
I called the Democratic state office and indicated I was changing my registration from Democrat to Independent. Not one dime for the Dems, no door to door, no passing out literature and not my vote for Obama.
The folks at home that don’t cruise progressive sites looking to educate themselves on issues relevant to their lives need help understanding what is going down in Congress right now. I suggest that when we keep mentioning the FISA bill that we also insert our interpretation of the bill, such as, the “government’s spying on Americans Bill also known as FISA”. You and I know that alot of people are low-information voters that really get confused at these initials being used all the time with no explanation of what they mean. I know FISA has been in the news plenty, and that people should know what it is. But the fact s that the politicos are counting on the fact that most people don’t have the time or interest to educate themselves about these issues and we should help them. The media sure doesn’t. As for Obama’s endorsement of Barrow, the Bush enabling Representative in Georgia against a truly progressive candidate, this is cause for alarm because it truly shows that power corrupts. They’re all in this to keep their jobs, nothing more. It stinks big time and Obama should be called out and loudly.
Let’s use some of that Act Blue money to put up an ad with John Cusiak in it,. I bet he wouldn’t ask for payment for his services; the $$ could go for airtime.
PS - my continuing refrain is to suggest that we each write the DCCC & DSCC. We’ve shown our fund-raising muscle, and if we point that out to them, it should strike a chord.
As for the folks above who’ve pointed out that their particular Congress-critter voted for this bill, and they fear a challenger couldn’t make it in your district: point out that this is a tide coming, and your ”fool,” even though he/she may have escaped this time, might feel the effect in the next election or Congress. [Bad members can be put on bad committees — if, of course, there’s decent leadership.]
Incidentally, Jonathan Turley said ”it’s not over,” and that the important thing right now is to let Congress know that there are a LOT of folks out there paying attention, and that Congress can’t just sneak these things through without a firestorm.
So activate that old ”dear friends” e-mail list and get everyone you know to write to everyone on the Hill that you can think of. I’d suggest starting with Chris VanHollen [DCCC chair], Chuck Schumer {DSCC chair], Naughty Nancy, Steny the Snake, and the Obama campaign.
Here is the list of the members of the Rules Committee; they are the ones who will set the ‘rules’ in the Senate for consideration of HR6304. Because Feinstein was the original author pushing for a court review to determine the ‘legality’(FISA court review) I don’t have much hope BUT letting them know that this bill not only subverts the justice system but also makes a mockery of it and that Sections 802 and 803 need to be completely re-written might make a small difference. http://rules.senate.gov/members/
What this really shows though is the focus of efforts should not be electing a President but enough Congress critters to override a veto. My own take is that all monies I might have contributed to Obama -since he has a fine legal background and could only comment that he supported the bill but was opposed to immunity BUT said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the sham of judicial review in the bill- will go to defeating Pelosi(Cindy Sheehan is running as independent), Hoyer, Emmanuel, Reyes, and Harmon(who voted against her constituents who were overwhelmingly against the immunity).
People, if you haven’t been turned off by Obama’s speech to AIPAC, his flipflop on NAFTA as reported by Forbes, and now this(with the oft used ‘fearmongering’ rationale), I don’t know what you are thinking when he supposedly stands for ‘change’; ‘change’ will occur simply because of the election.
I watched the speakers on this bill on CSPAN and it was obvious that they forgot (or ignored) the aspect of their oath that they are to protect the Constitution from ‘domestic enemies’; They seem to be forgetting that the Bush Administration HAS acted in a manner that presented a danger to the Constitution.
The real ‘terrorist threat’ to the U.S. is -from The American Conservative Magazine- “The holders of great wealth, especially if they are organized into a political lobby of similar holders of great wealth, can buy not only more goods, more capital, and more people. They can also buy (through the vehicle of campaign contributions) more important people: politicians and other public officials and therefore public policies.”