-- On FISA: Pressure your members of Congress. Now. Before it's too late and Dick Cheney's ass gets full coverage. Remind them they work for you -- and that we aren't averse to getting someone else, if need be. Ryan Singel has more, as does the NYTimes, and Digby, and Glenn, and it isn't pretty. Call or FAX now. Please.
-- As McJoan says, some opposition has begun to speak out against the Hoyer-pushed "compromise" plan -- and I'm hearing there may be more to come on this soon -- so let's give them the support they need to squash this altogether, shall we? Call. Now. bmaz has some great suggested talking points.
-- You can also help us push back on FISA here. Good morning Steny -- how's your day?
-- If your member of Congress has difficulty understanding why telecom immunity and violations of civil liberties are antithetical to the rule of law, tell them to read EFF. And then say no to utter capitulation and Cheney ass coverage renamed a "compromise." N-O. Need more incentive -- try Judge Harry Pregerson:
Judge Harry Pregerson...suggests the government is asking the courts to "rubber stamp" the government's claim that state secrets are at risk "Who decides whether something is a state secret or not? ... We have to take the word of the members of the executive branch that something is a state secret?"
Garre counters that the courts should give "utmost deference" to the Bush administration.
Judge Pregerson: "What does utmost deference mean? Bow to it?"
It is time for members of Congress to get off their knees and stop bowing. This is America, we do not have a king, and everyone ought to abide by the rule of law, including the President whether his unilateral fiat Veep likes it or not.
-- "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong." ACLU has more, as does Marcy and CNN. Will Bunch explains the significance. And more from McLatchy as well.
-- Habeas, schmabeas. (Do listen to this one -- it is awesome. H/T to Josh Orton for the link.)
-- Selling your soul for access is just politics as usual. That sound you hear is the beginning of lockstep.
-- Whatever you do, don't upset the oil drum. Cue the McCain pandering and Bush Administration pile-on in five...four...
-- Perhaps its just me, but if you want to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons secrets, outing CIA agents who were working on doing just that might have been a good thing not to do. Just saying...
-- Nothing says preparing for free speech like a bulk order of projectile launchers for the local cops. Can't wait to get to Denver. *cough*
-- And this from Jessica is just plain funny.
(Felt like a The Clash kinda day. "Know Your Rights" -- live performance from 1983.)
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So, Christy!
Heya Ann — how’s tricks? Pardon me while I make a cuppa tea…
So glad to see the McClatchy link, Christy. A powerful reminder of just how far we can trust this administration when they’re acting in secret.
[third graph, typo, should be talking “points” not poins]
heh, heh…is this what you “really” meant to write:
“It is time for members of Congress to get off their knees and stop bowing.”
that’s okay LS, I initially read it as “stop bowling”
THanks, Prairie — appreciate the heads up on the typo…
I find it truly remarkably that Obama comes under attack for suggesting that the fight against terrorism should be conducted according to our constitution.
GregB in the last thread pointed out that Bush’s JAR is at 24%.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/B.....72008.html
This would explain why the Congress is so hesitant to oppose the President.
btw, if you are a punk rock fan, the YouTube is a classic live performance from The Clash. I stumbled onto it this morning and had to post it. Enjoy!
It ain’t gonna fly.
There’s also an ACLU petition as well:
I guess it would be good to cover all fronts, just to let them know we’re not on vacation, as they probably think we are.
Pregerson is a way cool old school liberal guy. We really don’t grow them like him any more.
I have been banging my head on the staffer wall for weeks on the FISA issue. As you can most likely tell from my tone above, I have really had it… SIGH
The good news is that all the pushback seems to be building a bit of momentum finally — again — so please, please folks, take some time to make calls and/or send FAXes today. We have been hearing that a vote was being pushed for this week, but now I’m hearing that things are in flux, so pushback right now is essential.
The fact that we are still fighting on this is irritating, absolutely. But the fact that we still are fighting instead of having already utterly and completely lost the battle is worth the continued effort. I’ll be damned if Steny Hoyer gets the last word on this.
Jus Cogens!
Thank you!! The Clash are awesome. Joe Strummer is missed.
I love the start of this song — has always been a fave of mine: “This is a public service announcement…with guitar.” Mwahahahahaha…
Why? The Republicans don’t give a damn about the Constitution. Don’t you remember Bush’s words that isn’t just some damn piece of paper?
Why does Steny always do something like this before summer vacation?!?
An old Fav!
I wish I knew — but he’s not getting away with it without some serious-ass griping. And, if I can help it, he’s not getting away with it at all…
Now I see!
Forgot to say above, do let us know if you hear a specific policy position or get anything via e-mail or otherwise on FISA from your individual representatives or senators. Thanks!
Since Republican leadership want us to be scared all the time, I’d like to see a comparison of risks facing a citizen in the time of the Framers with the risks facing a citizen of today’s USA.
I had dusted off this old favorite the other day and was surprised to find out that many folks had never seen it. It still makes me laugh. The Liberal Song.
and Christy . . . your Jessica link - thank god us feminists don’t have a sense of humor, damn that’s funny!
If you are a Clash fan, this YouTube is also a brilliant live performance capture of Stay Free, from 1980.
Laughed my ass off about that one this morning. Knew some other folks would get a kick out of it. Sometimes, you just have to laugh…
i’m not irritated to keep fighting. i’m glad there is something that we are pushing back on and that we haven’t lost - and may yet win (yeah, call me hopelessly naive *g*).
the thing i don’t get is that while hoyer may be one of the worst in congress, he is hardly the source of our problem with the dems and fisa. from everything that has happened over the past year, it certainly looks more like a problem with the leadership in general and not just hoyer and his blue dogs.
i hope the campaign will make this clear.
Er I just wrote to congresscritter (not Dodd) (big-time paraphrase. I phrased it more tactfully): that that the average American might be suspicious that there’s a kind of love affair a la mojo going on between telcom companies and congress. It looks suspicious since the last time we saw a steny hoyer special it was right before summer. It’s so close to election time, so why cause this sort of disaffection between the peasants and congress?
Any ideas on what I should write to Dodd? Encouragement?
(((Quaker girl)))
Any deal on this was dead on arrival until Hoyer jumped in and decided to kick start pushing Kit Bond’s plan as a “compromise,” without securing the requisite support for his actions with Dems int he House before forging ahead. When he realized last week he likely didn’t have the votes — because his precipitous actions pissed people off, including a number of folks in the leadership — he tried to end run them by fobbing this mess off on the Senate for a vote there first to then pass the buck back to the House with a Senate stamp of approval.
But that may be backfiring as well, because he’s tried to fob it off without first talking to the leadership about doing so and, according to Durbin, that isn’t flying well.
This has all been press machinations in The Hill and CQ from Steny, a few Blue Dog pals, Kit Bond and the WH — little hints being dropped to see if there would be pushback from off the Hill as well as on it. (You’ll note we’ve been pushing back. *g*) And as I’m still unclear what exactly Steny thought he’d get out of being the Administration stooge in these negotiations, I’m holding him accountable for his actions until I get a straight answer from him.
Thought that had been clear from ll the posts we, Glenn, Marcy, Kagro and McJoan have been doing. But in case it’s not, there you are…
encouragement to fulfill his promise to filibuster?
And how should that go? You are the expert I will take your advice and personalize it.
Christy -
Has this story been posted? http://www.mcclatchydc.com/det.....38886.html
By Tom Lasseter | McClatchy Newspapers
Easing of laws that led to detainee abuse hatched in secret
Hi Christy and pups.
fwiw. Today I received a terrific, detailed reply from Sherrod Brown on his feelings re: FISA.
I think you’d be pleased with his stance, pups.
Perhaps it’s me, but I find it really hard to take seriously a branch of government that says it’s trying to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons secrets, but turns around and outs an agent whose job is to prevent the proliferation of such information as an NOC agent of the Directorate of Operations in the CIA. This is particularly true since they outed their own asset for political payback against her husband who contradicted a statement admittedly incorrectly spoken by the President in the State of the Union speech to Congress and the country. Apparently, discipline of dissidents within our own country is more important than proliferations of nuclear technology to this administration, this executive branch, even this congress who has been relatively supportive of most of this administrations major mistakes. They’ve been so supportive that the Democratic Speaker of the House has taken impeachment off the table and the Majority Leader of the Senate was quoted as saying there will be no impeachment of this President “no matter what he does.”
Pretty sure I linked that above in this post…
As I said last nite, Lasseter and McClatchy deserve awards and international recognition for their work, imho.
Their work has been exemplary for ages, and this particular series digging out finer point details on policy and action has been superb and disturbing thus far. Which of course means the wider media is looking the other way for the most part. SIGH
I saw a link in your post to one McClatchy story but may have inadvertently missed other McClatchy links you posted.
actually it looks more like another chapter “plausible deniability” by the dem leadership - where they pretend to be on our side, and then use procedural games to push cheney’s agenda. just as we’ve seen for almost a year now.
i don’t know why they would do this, but i’ve suspected it was along the lines of what glenn suggested yesterday:
p.s. we discussed much of this on david’s thead yesterday.
Just a fyi–
Alex Gibney (Taxi to the Dark Side) and Dan Froomkin are chatting at the wapo at 1pm if you are so inclined.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02552.html
i don’t know. really not an expert - just have been trying to pay extra attention to this one.
… but dodd did promise us a filibuster, and he hasn’t come through yet. it’s not too late.
not in this thread but somewhere down the road would love to discuss what we can do to help McClatchy - bleeding more red ink than any other major
I would agree with you if I hadn’t had conversations with folks in both House and Senate leadership offices recently — as in over the course of the last two weeks — talking about the need for pushback on this.
*taking a break*
bom dia pups
I see we’re fired up to get this gov’t of ours to answer to the people
I’d be interested in that myself. I didn’t know of their existence before taking up here at the lake.
Sent a good stiff fax to my guy, Mike Arcuri - he’s a former prosecutor and has written me every time I’ve emailed him about his feelings about FISA - he’s against giving the telecom co’s immunity. But he’s also a freshman Rep. - and I know he’s being targeted, so I felt I needed to give him an “atta boy” and “buck up for the Constitution” just so he knows we are behind him here in Upstate NY.
That’s an attitude I like to see because we’re going to be given plenty of opportunities in the next five months, and beyond. Taking the leash on Congress and the White House away from their corporate masters is not going to be an easy task. It is, however, a struggle well worth fighting.
I love the sound of corporate heads exploding in the morning. Sounds like…victory.
Christy, how would you encourage Dodd and Feingold if you were their constituents. Looking for ideas. You know my other senator is deaf and dumb to anything but the dazzle of McCain.
Meant to also say that it could have been because we were already pushing on this that the conversations happened — or because Hoyer’s attempted end-run irritated folks int he Senate, I’m just not sure. But there was definite irritation about this on both sides of the Hill, and not just from leadership folks, in conversations I’ve had. Am pretty sure Hoyer overplayed his hand and a lot of the public commentary on this has been him trying to salvage something out of the wreckage…but I don’t know for sure.
“For the most extensive medical study of former U.S. detainees published so far, Physicians for Human Rights had doctors and mental health professionals examine 11 former prisoners. The group alleges finding evidence of U.S. torture and war crimes and accuses U.S. military health professionals of allowing the abuse of detainees, denying them medical care and providing confidential medical information to interrogators that they then exploited.”
http://www.rawstory.com/news/m.....82008.html
(bows) Konnichiwa, Wobbs
(bows) Konnichiwa, selise
(bows) Konnichiwa, Christy
Keep forgetting my manners. My papa taught me better.
Those who may know more can correct me but the Rockefeller-Bond FISA sellout was only derailed when Republicans in the House continued the political games begun by Mitch McConnell in the Senate and voted against the FISA bill, at which point a handful of Democratic progressives joined them and sank the bill to the consternation not just of the Republicans but the same Democratic House leadership that is now seeking so hard to subvert that “victory”. Sorry for the run on sentence.
bom dia SD
All is well with you and yours?
Then maybe they should know that the American people are terrorized by warrantless wiretaps, the economy and much more Bush malarky than one guy gone AWOL in the wilderness of Pakistan.
I’d point to the duty on standing up for the rule of law — and link right back to the letter Dodd and Feingold sent out as the best example of patriotic action you’ve seen in a long time. The problem has been that while Dodd and Feingold have stood up — and have continued to stand up — what we really need is for Obama to do so, publicly, and well before any vote is taken. THAT would make a huge difference at the moment.
I’ve been nudging for a public statement and I know a lot of you have called his office at bmaz’s request, so we’ll see what happens. His Con Law background has to make this issue a tempting one to push, even with the election year babble that he has to be getting from “campaign advisers” and such and the tricky position he’s in between Rockefeller supporting him in WV and such. But it really would make a huge difference to a lot of fence-sitting Dems if he would speak up sooner rather than later…
One thing I’ve learned since being here(since my initiation through the Libby ‘live blogs’), we must all turn into Argos, the beast with a thousand eyes..who never, ever sleeps. Bush, Cheney, and obviously Steny Hoyer, hope that we will get tired of all this, and will just be numbed into giving up…but we must never, ever give up.
This is for you LS:
TPM
I and the tigers be fine. Could do with about a 60% drop in the humidity, though. Air is thick as sea poop, er, pea soup.
The Taliban are building their own helo’s? This oughtta be interesting.
Hi, pups.
Glad to see you mention that - I’m worried about them, since hearing a few days ago that there will be 1200 jobs eliminated shortly to cut costs.
Just as this great series covering, as usual, something that no other big media company is paying attention to. Once again, “not enough profit” is the cry. Never mind the best journalism in a time when such is so hard to find.
Yes, another thread. In fact, I just popped in to see what was new before picking up the phone to call the Congresscritters.
Of course, mine are Lamar Smith, John Cornyn, and Kay Bailey Hutchison. Sigh.
Thanks Wobbly. Not only are they probably taking the parts to use..they are disabling helicopters…no engine-no fly.
i don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. from the little bit i’ve spoken with a few of the congressional staff on fisa, they have been incredibly helpful and i do believe they are as outraged as we are. but that doesn’t mean their bosses see it the same way - and i think the evidence from the past year is that they don’t.
here are a few thoughts i had after david’s thread, so i’ll include them here:
was Hoyer the only one responsible last July for making sure that while FISA negotiations were held with the whitehouse the fact they were happening was hidden from the ACLU, bloggers and civil society in general? Was Hoyer the architect of the procedural flim-flam in Aug to pass the PAA? Hoyer didn’t bury Holt’s FISA bill in committee last fall (in both judiciary and intelligence committees), wasn’t that Conyers and Reyes (at the least)? Was Hoyer responsible for the fucked up Restore Act I (submitted by Conyers and Reyes)? Was Hoyer responsible for lying to Holt to get Restore Act I voted out of the house intelligence committee? Was Hoyer the one who prevented Holt from speaking from the house floor about Restore Act I as Holt apparently wanted to? And then there is the senate, which has been worse than house. Hard to imagine Hoyer and his blue dogs are responsible for that.
hoyer maybe the worst of the lot (i have no reason to doubt that) - but the narrative that this is all of his doing just doesn’t jive with what we’ve seen since last july. or to put it another way - should i believe the insider’s story line you’ve been told or what i see with my own eyes?
…. christy, you may end up seriously regretting getting me hooked on watching c-span. *g*
*giggle*
I needed that little chuckle. I’m in receipt hell right now. The family food bank that I volunteer at accepts monetary donations and makes food purchases. Well the last volunteer (bless thier heart) just kind of threw receipts in a big ole ziploc bag 9well 4 actually) and now i’m trying to sort it all out (audit is a comin)
Merci! Sometimes I feel like I am all out of ideas.
Just seems when it comes to machinery (multi-million dollar) folks can’t seem to keep track of them
Here’s my latest fax, just going out:
That Jessica is funny!
Or even nukes!!!
I don’t think anyone is saying Hoyer is the only person responsible. But he is a fulcrum at the moment, and I’m willing to point out his odious behavior as an example to herd others into line if necessary while holding him to account for some truly odious recent behavior.
Holding Steny accountable doesn’t let others off the hook, but it’s the best place to start if we want to stop momentum on this for now. It’s what we have to work with, and we are trying to use it for now…but that doesn’t mean there won’t be other actions down the road as well. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.
good one, BobbyG
your right. At this point, I wouldn’[t trust them with a pencil box.
very nice
The military keeps so many spare parts for their equipment there’s really no way to keep track of it all in a theatre of operations. We used to steal radios from the Army routinely and they never knew they were missing. They’d be stacked on pallets, just layin’ around.
In an email? Can you post part of it?
Selise
Have you read the Spencer Ackerman article regarding the torture hearings?
As a “recovered” accountant, I shudder to think of the inventory control issues involved with this.
are you referring to the 21 day PAA extension that was defeated in the house in feb?
Drive by comment this report:
War and Occupation in Iraq Chapter 5 Abuse and Torture of Prisoners
Is worth reading. It’s part of the series (LS and if he’s around Ctuttle will I think be interested in Chapter 3 “Indiscriminate and Especially Injurious Weapons” The table of contents is here: War and Occupation in Iraq and either the entire report or each chapter can be downloaded as a PDF.
The PHR report makes very grim reading.
Erdla
really? But with technology and all nowadays, can’t they at least keep track of helicopter engines???
Thanks Erdla. i’ll certainly read it.
My representative is Dinner Rorabacher (R………………ight)
Thanks much — will take a peek. It’s been pretty grim reading all around for a while. SIGH
ACLU suggestions as well:
You notice that nobody in the Mal-Administration has so much as said, “Ooops; unintended side effect”?
Personally, I run the whole thing backwards and think that wrecking Mrs. Wilson’s operations was the point of the exercise, not a side effect.
thank you Erdla.
Thanks, mui — that’s really helpful!
Erdla– thank you.
Thanks Erdla. I’ll definitely read it.
Could well be. Wasn’t this what brought us to the current situation where the PAA ran out?
I just finished reading Ackerman’s piece and i guess I can see why Haynes had such a faulty memory. I wouldn’t want to remember that I did that either
ya know, a member of this community wrote a piece calling Senator Obama out on the current FISA flim-flammery and posted it over at ObamaWorld
and she would like it very much if ya went over there and posted a comment - maybe with enough response, it could get the attention of the campaign
IANABW
yes ma’am
*g*
Blue Texan is upstairs with a new thread…
Thank you, Erdla. Stay safe.
done
Done deal.