Suz!

War! Weir!

ct!
neuro!

I posted this to almost no reply earlier - maybe the late night crew will have more feedback.

I had a conversation with a friend who’s a McCain supporter, and a Vietnam vet, who thinks Mccain is honorable. While I disagree with the basic premise - McCain is honorable (Keating five anyone?) I try to humor him and not come down like a ton of bricks.

But yesterday, we were talking and he said we have to stay in Iraq because he doesn’t want those who have died to have died in vain. As he was speaking, the flaw in his reasoning was apparent because he had never really considered because the war was predicated on a series of lies, a point he conceded, that those who were dead, mained, etc, had already been maimed and killed in vain.

So I asked him: “If the war was predicated on a lie, isn’t every lost life, lost in vain? Isn’t every life lost nothing more than a paen to a collosal lie? Are you willing to condemn more young Americans to die for nothing? Because every life, every limb , every dollar, ever piece of equipment, every civilian death, has been for NOTHING. It’s all based on a lie, and it’s all been a waste, and it’s been a waste for nothing. Because it was based on a lie.

By the time I finished my diatribe, he was in tears. I admit, I came down like a ton of bricks, but “Bill,” is one of the few who can take my ton of bricks and still love me. He had never considered the a+b=c equation of the war. He wasn’t happy we were there but believed we needed to “get out with honor.” I had poked a hole in his John McCain balloon. But as a VietVet, the specter of more lives wasted for nothing was something he wasn’t prepared to consider. I forced him to consider it, and he broke down.

Whether it makes any difference in who he votes for almost doesn’t matter. I think, as I had done many years before when discussing gay rights, I had exposed him to a way of thinking that wasn’t a part of his world until he was confronted with it.

I think, when confronted with the “We must withdraw with honor,” argument, I believe this is the argument we must use, because it’s the one that has not been considered by the 28 percenters.

Something to think about, eh?

I went downstairs to tell ‘em and I saw you said “claimed” zed…! ;-)

Digg!

Happy off topic!

I have an anti-topic snack. Or Maybe it’s on-topic.

Thankyou, neuro…
Dugg!

hehehehe

thanks neuro

My bad honey, I have been on an extended personal optical exam of my lower intestine.

Smooches.
I am glad you don’t have to worry about beatin’ feet to escape a burn out!

Wow, ThatGuy, that is a ton of bricks. Maybe your friend can work through his grief by telling others about his change of heart. He might be very gifted at reaching those who feel like he did, as you clearly are.

One mind at a time!

It’s rough for some people, when the fog is finally lifted, for a lot of reasons. It’s great that you reached your friend though.

On another note: that has to be the mellowest version of “War” I’ve ever heard.

That was excellent, ThatGuy.

I don’t know, ThatGuy, I suspect there are some Iraq War vets who do not want to view their buddies’ deaths as in vain, and some family members of service members who do not want to view their deaths as in vain, it might be a hard sell with them, perhaps you will have more success with people like your VietVet buddy who have no direct link to this war…just my opinion

i like it that guy

Neuro it looks like Digg done blowed up again… After clicking on Totally original digg blew up… now the link at the top links to my Digg
sorry about that Neuro!!

What is it good for?

I posted this to almost no reply earlier

What? I just had to reply and tell ya “great job”…! ;-)

some comments got caught in the filter for some reason.. everyone refresh to see what got missed

OK

rut roh - digg sure has been forking up a lot lately

Drat! It linked to my Digg when I tried it! I Dugg your Digg, however.

All better now.

Tell me about it… Neuro and I keep trying but digg is digging it’s own hole any way it wants to /s

Issa: Tim Russert would have wanted more domestic oil drilling

what. an. ass.

God punishes Massachusetts yet again for the scourge of gay marriage by rewarding another pro-sports team with a championship victory.

-G

I feel that we need to find another phrase than “in vain” to speak of the men and woman who died in vain. They were doing their duty to their country even if their president and his cabal were doing something for their own selves. They died for a misguided cause. The point is to stop more from losing their life or limbs or sanity for a misguided/corporate cause. I honor them, but I also wish the whole bunch who are still there would say “no more” and that those destined to go back would band together and say “no way!”

OK, I refreshed. Here’s what I got…

Issa is a fool. Nothing worse than a powerful fool. He is only about getting his greedy forkin’ needs met.

So many people only hear news and ideas after they have been run through a Limbaugh filter.

If you can talk to people it often gives them an opinion they had never considered.

-G

In case you missed it from Teddy’s thread:
Donna Edwards wins!

And Paul Pierce nabs the MVP…! Woo-Hoo…! 8-)

Here’s the Boss’ version of War.

he has already earned his own circle of hell many times over.

And boy did they hand it to the Laker… what a rout they had the Lakers out of the game by the end of the second quarter…

I think it IS tough - but the truth only smiles. The truth is, all those people died for nothing. I have no doubt their families and comrades don’t WANT to admit to themselves it was all for nothing, and the truth is, no one will hold a gun to their heads and force them to believe that.

But The truth is, all those lives HAVE been wasted. I don’t claim to try to change the world, but in a chosen spot, with a target demographic, you have to at least ask the question: “Do you believe we went to war based on a lie?”

If the answer is “yes” then they need to be confronted with the truth. If you believe the war was based on a lie, then you must believe every death, military, terrorist, insurgent, civilian, contractor, journalist, relief worker, was in vain. It meant nothing and it never will mean anything because it was all predicated on a lie. Just like VIETNAM!

It’s not nice, and you can’t really do it with people you don’t know, because they’ll just say “fuck you” and tune you out. But with a friend who’s a thinker (as opposed to a dittohead I jettisoned about a year ago, I just couldn’t take it), if you think someone you can reach just hasn’t considered it, I think it’s an argument that can change some hearts and minds.

now that is truly awesome news.

Or. Call their lost lives the most they could give for their country, acknowlege their sacrifice and put the fuckers in jail who sent them. That is supporting the troops.

can we not talk about the game? i’m a gracious loser whon appreciates gracious winners

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

You shoulda seen him at the ‘Dillo before he got famous…

they died for a lie.

That guy, I think all you can do is show him good internet sites and continue talking to him and asking him questions.

I’m guessing that people who voted for W in 00 and 04 feel really guilty, but don’t want to admit it. Let him be the guy to convince you to vote for Obama if possible!

No gloating.

Yeah but you were the only one. I know I’m sorta preaching to the choir, but I think we can change at least some people, because some are surrounded by people have the same beliefs. So that’s all they hear. I’m not saying use it like hot fudge on ice cream, but use it where you think you can make a difference.

Amen. And I’m not religious. What galls me is that so many of the soldiers are of the 28%. Easy pickins’.

and great vid! Thanks, Hannibal.

You’d think another MD Rep, Steny Hoyer, would get the hint and back off on the FISA “compromise”…! F*cker…

Excellent tunes, Suz.

I have a no book out. It is pics of my train rides from Sac to Berkeley.
Take a lookie.

the youtube on my screen is stuck, with a little white dot going round and round.

does that mean my puter is too slow?

(feel free to mock PCs that are more than 6 years old)

I love Donna
But where the fuck is the Speaker of the House? Where is she?

Way before my time!

Not so many. Actually the demographics of the lower enlisted ranks reflect their backgrounds - more black, latino, and lower economic groups that mostly vote Dem.

That thing about the military being heavily pro-Rethug is another one of their lying talking points.

That would be a new book out.

Eternally. He must go.

No, I resemble that remark. Hit refresh?

Did you ever see WAYLON at the ‘DIllo? That would have been something.

Waylon was the very best.

I’m sooo with ya there…!

Great format, too!

I saw him at the Stone Pony Asbury Park NJin 67…

Certainly not setting the table…! 8-(

Thank god, someone is finally admitting it might NOT be such a grand idea to canonize TIMMAY!

Yeah, yeah, I’m sorry he’s dead, sad for his famdammily, blah blah blah, but he was a right-wing tool. Simple as that.

maybe a really stupid question but does he have even one redeeming quality?

Thanks. I am having so much fun with this. I am putting another together about my neighborhood soon.

I mock PCs that are fresh out of the box.

The Mac/PC ads are more on the money than Gates would ever admit.

thanks loohoo.. i was helping token save a tree and just now saw your comment :)

Joan Osborne

Not one.

and I am having a hard time with my words tonight. Tired.

forking great eye candy mary mcc

Good freaking point. Where?

via Atrios:

WASHINGTON — The U.S. military hid the locations of suspected terrorist detainees and concealed harsh treatment to avoid the scrutiny of the International Committee of the Red Cross, according to documents that a Senate committee released Tuesday.

The administration overrode or ignored objections from all four military services and from criminal investigators, who warned that the practices would imperil their ability to prosecute the suspects. In one prophetic e-mail on Oct. 28, 2002, Mark Fallon, then the deputy commander of the Pentagon’s Criminal Investigation Task Force, wrote a colleague: “This looks like the kind of stuff Congressional hearings are made of. … Someone needs to be considering how history will look back at this.” The objections from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines prompted Navy Capt. Jane Dalton, legal adviser to the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, to begin a review of the proposed techniques.

more here

hiding under the table?

heat get to ya today mary?

OK, where the hell is that guy? Are y’all playing tricks on me? Every time he’s mentioned, I can’t find him. Does that guy get banned right after I click on him? Here I am, and he’s gone again. WTF? Where is he?!

Ya mean mouth piece!!

i figured as much but i like to think there is something there.

try a hard refresh if you are not seeing all the comments….

Hard refresh, wangdangdoodle.

Yes. I have started walking 3 to 4 miles a day. I left the house with Wally the Best Dog Ever at around 7:30 this evening. And it was too hot but I keep going. Now I am catatonic.

That’s interesting. But I don’t know if it’s true. Every current military person I’ve met is all gung-ho for the hard core. Gonna win this thing. I can’t imagine that they didn’t vote for Bush — if they were even old enough to vote. I wonder what the statistics really are.

You’re not getting your fluids, Mary.

As well as being Iceland

Thanks LurkingMod and Suz, I’m too young to be older than McCain.

: )

you gotta keep your fluids up when walking in this heat mary mcc

wally the best dog around and you both need fluids and rest when walking when hot

I think there is a divide. It just isn’t the same percentages as the general population. There are a lot of things you have to convience your self of in order to kill people. The emotional investment in believing that you are one of the good guys is huge.

Yes, Issa has one redeeming quality. He had the Border Patrol close down the checkpoints about 30 miles from the border on the I5 and and I15. He was inconvenienced, and had a big brawl with the powers. They are pretty much closed down except for binocular type checks.

I suffered through these checkpoints for 20 years, and Issa was slowed down and then stopped once. Pissed him off and POOF! Gone.

So thank you Darrell Issa, for the one worthwhile thing you’ve ever done as a congressman.

(No word on whether he has a coyote ring)

they have everything investing in winning… their very lifes depend on winning.

its finding a way that lets them keep their honor

Yep. I keep trying to give Wally water and he won’t drink it. I love those coconut juice drinks. Perfect electrolight balance. I was out of them today.

gorgeous!

Good night friends.

Thr message is loud and clear no modifiers just fuck up war is hell. But the old men get rich on the blood of the young. How many congress critters have kids in the wars now?
War sucks and so does the congress that funds it. Peace, love and joy is better. Bend those swords into plowshares. In other word build don’t destroy. Awesome Hannibal. Takes more balls to stand down than up.

DELBERT!

Bend those swords into plowshares.

And electric guitar parts! :-D

From Meteor Blades at KOS

After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts, and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.

Night, Bets. Pain-free wishes.

I guess every ass has its day

Thanks Betsy!

boa noite betsy

Aloha, Tex, Pain free sleep wishes…!

pain free sleep wishes tex

Good night Betsy sleep well:>)

mary i’ll have to check out your book tomorrow. my browser is not cooperating with the site

I’ll be back in a minute… just want to bang my head on something a little harder so’s I’ll feel it.

More Delbert!

paul thorn!

They’re gonna be at Rancho Nicasio in Marin on July 13. Bill Hinds, Paul’s guitarist is using one of my amps for the gig.

sweet… an extra or did his blow?

I know where that is. I think Ron used to play out there a hundurd years ago.

It’s a fly gig, so he’d be using some piece of shit rental if he wasn’t using my amp. I figure he ought to use at least one good amp out here. I sure wish he was playing Little FOx again, but Nicasio is a nice day, it’s a Sunday afternoon BBQ, with oysters and other yummies. Brother Mike Duke (late of Wet Willie and Delbert) works up there and it’s always nice to see him, too.

It’s a nice place, just a damn long drive from San Jose.