Suz!

War! Weir!

ct!
neuro!

I posted this to almost no reply earlier – maybe the late night crew will have more feedback.

I had a conversation with a friend who’s a McCain supporter, and a Vietnam vet, who thinks Mccain is honorable. While I disagree with the basic premise – McCain is honorable (Keating five anyone?) I try to humor him and not come down like a ton of bricks.

But yesterday, we were talking and he said we have to stay in Iraq because he doesn’t want those who have died to have died in vain. As he was speaking, the flaw in his reasoning was apparent because he had never really considered because the war was predicated on a series of lies, a point he conceded, that those who were dead, mained, etc, had already been maimed and killed in vain.

So I asked him: “If the war was predicated on a lie, isn’t every lost life, lost in vain? Isn’t every life lost nothing more than a paen to a collosal lie? Are you willing to condemn more young Americans to die for nothing? Because every life, every limb , every dollar, ever piece of equipment, every civilian death, has been for NOTHING. It’s all based on a lie, and it’s all been a waste, and it’s been a waste for nothing. Because it was based on a lie.

By the time I finished my diatribe, he was in tears. I admit, I came down like a ton of bricks, but “Bill,” is one of the few who can take my ton of bricks and still love me. He had never considered the a+b=c equation of the war. He wasn’t happy we were there but believed we needed to “get out with honor.” I had poked a hole in his John McCain balloon. But as a VietVet, the specter of more lives wasted for nothing was something he wasn’t prepared to consider. I forced him to consider it, and he broke down.

Whether it makes any difference in who he votes for almost doesn’t matter. I think, as I had done many years before when discussing gay rights, I had exposed him to a way of thinking that wasn’t a part of his world until he was confronted with it.

I think, when confronted with the “We must withdraw with honor,” argument, I believe this is the argument we must use, because it’s the one that has not been considered by the 28 percenters.

Something to think about, eh?

I went downstairs to tell ‘em and I saw you said “claimed” zed…! ;-)

Digg!

Happy off topic!

I have an anti-topic snack. Or Maybe it’s on-topic.

Thankyou, neuro…
Dugg!

hehehehe

thanks neuro

My bad honey, I have been on an extended personal optical exam of my lower intestine.

Smooches.
I am glad you don’t have to worry about beatin’ feet to escape a burn out!

Wow, ThatGuy, that is a ton of bricks. Maybe your friend can work through his grief by telling others about his change of heart. He might be very gifted at reaching those who feel like he did, as you clearly are.

One mind at a time!

It’s rough for some people, when the fog is finally lifted, for a lot of reasons. It’s great that you reached your friend though.

On another note: that has to be the mellowest version of “War” I’ve ever heard.

That was excellent, ThatGuy.

I don’t know, ThatGuy, I suspect there are some Iraq War vets who do not want to view their buddies’ deaths as in vain, and some family members of service members who do not want to view their deaths as in vain, it might be a hard sell with them, perhaps you will have more success with people like your VietVet buddy who have no direct link to this war…just my opinion

i like it that guy

Neuro it looks like Digg done blowed up again… After clicking on Totally original digg blew up… now the link at the top links to my Digg
sorry about that Neuro!!

What is it good for?

I posted this to almost no reply earlier

What? I just had to reply and tell ya “great job”…! ;-)

some comments got caught in the filter for some reason.. everyone refresh to see what got missed

OK

rut roh – digg sure has been forking up a lot lately

Drat! It linked to my Digg when I tried it! I Dugg your Digg, however.

All better now.

Tell me about it… Neuro and I keep trying but digg is digging it’s own hole any way it wants to /s

Issa: Tim Russert would have wanted more domestic oil drilling

what. an. ass.

God punishes Massachusetts yet again for the scourge of gay marriage by rewarding another pro-sports team with a championship victory.

-G

I feel that we need to find another phrase than “in vain” to speak of the men and woman who died in vain. They were doing their duty to their country even if their president and his cabal were doing something for their own selves. They died for a misguided cause. The point is to stop more from losing their life or limbs or sanity for a misguided/corporate cause. I honor them, but I also wish the whole bunch who are still there would say “no more” and that those destined to go back would band together and say “no way!”

OK, I refreshed. Here’s what I got…

Issa is a fool. Nothing worse than a powerful fool. He is only about getting his greedy forkin’ needs met.

So many people only hear news and ideas after they have been run through a Limbaugh filter.

If you can talk to people it often gives them an opinion they had never considered.

-G

In case you missed it from Teddy’s thread:
Donna Edwards wins!

And Paul Pierce nabs the MVP…! Woo-Hoo…! 8-)

Here’s the Boss’ version of War.

he has already earned his own circle of hell many times over.

And boy did they hand it to the Laker… what a rout they had the Lakers out of the game by the end of the second quarter…

I think it IS tough – but the truth only smiles. The truth is, all those people died for nothing. I have no doubt their families and comrades don’t WANT to admit to themselves it was all for nothing, and the truth is, no one will hold a gun to their heads and force them to believe that.

But The truth is, all those lives HAVE been wasted. I don’t claim to try to change the world, but in a chosen spot, with a target demographic, you have to at least ask the question: “Do you believe we went to war based on a lie?”

If the answer is “yes” then they need to be confronted with the truth. If you believe the war was based on a lie, then you must believe every death, military, terrorist, insurgent, civilian, contractor, journalist, relief worker, was in vain. It meant nothing and it never will mean anything because it was all predicated on a lie. Just like VIETNAM!

It’s not nice, and you can’t really do it with people you don’t know, because they’ll just say “fuck you” and tune you out. But with a friend who’s a thinker (as opposed to a dittohead I jettisoned about a year ago, I just couldn’t take it), if you think someone you can reach just hasn’t considered it, I think it’s an argument that can change some hearts and minds.

now that is truly awesome news.

Or. Call their lost lives the most they could give for their country, acknowlege their sacrifice and put the fuckers in jail who sent them. That is supporting the troops.

can we not talk about the game? i’m a gracious loser whon appreciates gracious winners

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

You shoulda seen him at the ‘Dillo before he got famous…

they died for a lie.

That guy, I think all you can do is show him good internet sites and continue talking to him and asking him questions.

I’m guessing that people who voted for W in 00 and 04 feel really guilty, but don’t want to admit it. Let him be the guy to convince you to vote for Obama if possible!

No gloating.

Yeah but you were the only one. I know I’m sorta preaching to the choir, but I think we can change at least some people, because some are surrounded by people have the same beliefs. So that’s all they hear. I’m not saying use it like hot fudge on ice cream, but use it where you think you can make a difference.

Amen. And I’m not religious. What galls me is that so many of the soldiers are of the 28%. Easy pickins’.

and great vid! Thanks, Hannibal.

You’d think another MD Rep, Steny Hoyer, would get the hint and back off on the FISA “compromise”…! F*cker…

Excellent tunes, Suz.

I have a no book out. It is pics of my train rides from Sac to Berkeley.
Take a lookie.

the youtube on my screen is stuck, with a little white dot going round and round.

does that mean my puter is too slow?

(feel free to mock PCs that are more than 6 years old)

I love Donna
But where the fuck is the Speaker of the House? Where is she?

Way before my time!

Not so many. Actually the demographics of the lower enlisted ranks reflect their backgrounds – more black, latino, and lower economic groups that mostly vote Dem.

That thing about the military being heavily pro-Rethug is another one of their lying talking points.

That would be a new book out.

Eternally. He must go.

No, I resemble that remark. Hit refresh?

Did you ever see WAYLON at the ‘DIllo? That would have been something.

Waylon was the very best.

I’m sooo with ya there…!

Great format, too!

I saw him at the Stone Pony Asbury Park NJin 67…

Certainly not setting the table…! 8-(

Thank god, someone is finally admitting it might NOT be such a grand idea to canonize TIMMAY!

Yeah, yeah, I’m sorry he’s dead, sad for his famdammily, blah blah blah, but he was a right-wing tool. Simple as that.

maybe a really stupid question but does he have even one redeeming quality?

Thanks. I am having so much fun with this. I am putting another together about my neighborhood soon.

I mock PCs that are fresh out of the box.

The Mac/PC ads are more on the money than Gates would ever admit.

thanks loohoo.. i was helping token save a tree and just now saw your comment :)

Joan Osborne

Not one.

and I am having a hard time with my words tonight. Tired.

forking great eye candy mary mcc

Good freaking point. Where?

via Atrios:

WASHINGTON — The U.S. military hid the locations of suspected terrorist detainees and concealed harsh treatment to avoid the scrutiny of the International Committee of the Red Cross, according to documents that a Senate committee released Tuesday.

The administration overrode or ignored objections from all four military services and from criminal investigators, who warned that the practices would imperil their ability to prosecute the suspects. In one prophetic e-mail on Oct. 28, 2002, Mark Fallon, then the deputy commander of the Pentagon’s Criminal Investigation Task Force, wrote a colleague: “This looks like the kind of stuff Congressional hearings are made of. … Someone needs to be considering how history will look back at this.” The objections from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines prompted Navy Capt. Jane Dalton, legal adviser to the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, to begin a review of the proposed techniques.

more here

hiding under the table?

heat get to ya today mary?

OK, where the hell is that guy? Are y’all playing tricks on me? Every time he’s mentioned, I can’t find him. Does that guy get banned right after I click on him? Here I am, and he’s gone again. WTF? Where is he?!

Ya mean mouth piece!!

i figured as much but i like to think there is something there.

try a hard refresh if you are not seeing all the comments….

Hard refresh, wangdangdoodle.

Yes. I have started walking 3 to 4 miles a day. I left the house with Wally the Best Dog Ever at around 7:30 this evening. And it was too hot but I keep going. Now I am catatonic.

That’s interesting. But I don’t know if it’s true. Every current military person I’ve met is all gung-ho for the hard core. Gonna win this thing. I can’t imagine that they didn’t vote for Bush — if they were even old enough to vote. I wonder what the statistics really are.

You’re not getting your fluids, Mary.

As well as being Iceland

Thanks LurkingMod and Suz, I’m too young to be older than McCain.

: )

you gotta keep your fluids up when walking in this heat mary mcc

wally the best dog around and you both need fluids and rest when walking when hot

I think there is a divide. It just isn’t the same percentages as the general population. There are a lot of things you have to convience your self of in order to kill people. The emotional investment in believing that you are one of the good guys is huge.

Yes, Issa has one redeeming quality. He had the Border Patrol close down the checkpoints about 30 miles from the border on the I5 and and I15. He was inconvenienced, and had a big brawl with the powers. They are pretty much closed down except for binocular type checks.

I suffered through these checkpoints for 20 years, and Issa was slowed down and then stopped once. Pissed him off and POOF! Gone.

So thank you Darrell Issa, for the one worthwhile thing you’ve ever done as a congressman.

(No word on whether he has a coyote ring)

they have everything investing in winning… their very lifes depend on winning.

its finding a way that lets them keep their honor

Yep. I keep trying to give Wally water and he won’t drink it. I love those coconut juice drinks. Perfect electrolight balance. I was out of them today.

gorgeous!

Good night friends.

Thr message is loud and clear no modifiers just fuck up war is hell. But the old men get rich on the blood of the young. How many congress critters have kids in the wars now?
War sucks and so does the congress that funds it. Peace, love and joy is better. Bend those swords into plowshares. In other word build don’t destroy. Awesome Hannibal. Takes more balls to stand down than up.

DELBERT!

Bend those swords into plowshares.

And electric guitar parts! :-D

From Meteor Blades at KOS

After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts, and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.

Night, Bets. Pain-free wishes.

I guess every ass has its day

Thanks Betsy!

boa noite betsy

Aloha, Tex, Pain free sleep wishes…!

pain free sleep wishes tex

Good night Betsy sleep well:>)

mary i’ll have to check out your book tomorrow. my browser is not cooperating with the site

I’ll be back in a minute… just want to bang my head on something a little harder so’s I’ll feel it.

More Delbert!

paul thorn!

They’re gonna be at Rancho Nicasio in Marin on July 13. Bill Hinds, Paul’s guitarist is using one of my amps for the gig.

sweet… an extra or did his blow?

I know where that is. I think Ron used to play out there a hundurd years ago.

It’s a fly gig, so he’d be using some piece of shit rental if he wasn’t using my amp. I figure he ought to use at least one good amp out here. I sure wish he was playing Little FOx again, but Nicasio is a nice day, it’s a Sunday afternoon BBQ, with oysters and other yummies. Brother Mike Duke (late of Wet Willie and Delbert) works up there and it’s always nice to see him, too.

It’s a nice place, just a damn long drive from San Jose.

take lots of pictures so you can share the eye candy dood.

I’m spent, it was a hectic day… I shall bid ya’ll a fond adieu! Aloha Oe!!!

Everything is a long way from San Jose.

aloha ct

even if you know the way to san jose

Too much yelling for the Celtics??

I am always ending up in jan sose cause I am dyslexic.

nite CT

Good for you. I need to do that.

Now I’m certain wr’ee related!

jan sose sounds like a soccer player

boa noite pups

restful slumber wishes for all

‘lo everyone

Anyone got a way to relieve a bad stomach ache? I think this one cropped up as a side effect of the Tdap vaccination i got today. >_

Wait. It’s not just the US dead. What about the innocents that were slaughtered Dearie. What about innicent families mothers/fathers and their kids? 4.7 million made homeless a country destroyed. That is not our defense. That is steaing oil. Just like Hitler did in Rumania to feed his industrial machine. It was a crime against humanity. Blood for oil. A big bad crime. And it is still going on. These people were promised rewards for serving quid pro quo. To justify war is to promote it. Sorry Dearie I call bullshit. They were warned. We demonstrated and raised hell trying to stop the madness but Cheney/Bush would not take no for an answer. They bankrupted the future of the next two generations. That is collaborating to give anyone that participates a soft landing. We also had the lessons of Nam. We had warnings from opur allies. The boss above. But they had to have the Shock and Awe. Well it turned sour as expected. Preemptive wars when their is no threat can never be justified they are international crimes. Blood sucking vampires. Noone shpould be sleeping under a bridge without food and medical care. But you don’t give kudos for murder. No way.

I gained ten pounds since Christmas. I started eating and didn’t quit. But when I finally decide to get healthy and exercise my relationship with food shifts. I don’t want to wreck the gain since it takes a lot of effort. And I have stopped taking antidepressants. I working with natural seratonin.

camomile’s tea?

I’m going to want to talk to you about that tomorrow. i’ll drop you a line on FB

night all

Please!

Aloha, CTuttle. Night, Tex.

As much as I have tried to forget, I’m sure I would find it.

She has her head up her ass and can’t find the handle.

nite betsy, tuttle, wobbly (you’re funny)

Peppermint.

boa noite wobbly

you da man!

Night, wobbly.

Alias, peppermint. Got an altoid? PeptoBismal is a rip.

a wee bit of baking soda in water will make it soda water and will help ya burp if ya think that will help alias

Very cool! You must be proud.

Do we get a cartoon tonight? They take me back to my youth…

Have a job interview. Actually, it is the first interview at a employment agency. So I am going to bed. Good night you all. Have fun.

Night pups .. see ya all next late late night:>) And Neuro keep digging!!

i put up toons on tuesday’s over at my place.. buccaneer bugs isup top

g’nite mary and i’m crossing my fingers and toes

g’nite nahant

It won’t open but I have the feeling I am fortunate that it won’t.

nite mary. good luck!
nite nahant

nite mary, nahant

Best luck!

try this one dood

I get really riled about forgiving war. I have been a peace freak since the 1967 movement when we discovered we can make a difference and make the world a better place for all creatures and plants. Their are universal ties with humanity that enables us to behave with a social conscience, Those folks that want to use or abuse others have no place in that society, They have to change or be ostracised just as they ostracise the innocent with torture and war. I am so angry at those that perpertrate these crimes and walk and those that obfuscate that behavior that my shoulder burn. All the phony religious folks that cherry pick their religion like the Hagees of the world make it a lot harder place to be in.

OMG, hope everyone gets the job they want…

Here’s a fun one.

You’re right, bigbrother. You remind me of my little brothers, but they’re in their 50’s now!

They would love to have a beer with you, and so would I!

I agree with your sentiments. But I still have trouble blaming the stupid misguided folks who joined up because they were ‘patriotic’ and maybe thought they’d actually get college benefits. I cut no slack for BushCo. By the way, while most of my friends who went to VietNam were forced into it, I knew quite a few who went for ‘patriotic’ reasons. I know some who still believe we could/should have won…..even if it meant paving over the totality of South VietNam. Anyway…..I agree with you totally as to the culprits.

The temp gig is a scam to get labor without the cost of benefits. It is a ripoff.

this is kind of a feel good tune
If you click ‘watch in high quality’ it works.

here it is

Totally fun until the pianist took over…

I am having a great time anytime I get to tell off a warmonger I consider it a high calling in the defense of my fellow man. If you sign the unifoem code of military justice you are meat on the hook. The Bush administration is not making us safer they are putting us in great jeopardy, wasting our military and our good name.

how’s jake bigbrother?

fork.. i just went blank on your dogs name.. was it jake or blackjack?

You bring up an interesting and vital situation… how to unwedge our citizenry after so much triangulation stirred up by the Repub operatives and titillating MSM that lives off controversy. how to encourage people to face down a horrible level of reality… with the deaths of this brave generation.. two in fact…. whose courage was evilly exploited. But I can’t abide saying they died in vain.

As I was reading I was thinking of a cousin who signed up for 2 hitches in Viet Nam and when John Kerry’s name is mentioned he looks truly homicidal about his disloyalty so long ago going on national tv as a vet against the war. He sees him as a traitor to the family of soldiers. How brave for vets to stand up and protest. And how effective for some… and yet not for others.

Saying those soldiers died in vain does make me cringe. Those soldiers become committed to each other … and at the very least died trying to get through it together … trying to save each other as a very special and country-loving and loving each other family. Betrayed yes by this bottom-feeding, profiteering, socipathic administration and spineless Congress. But they are thrown into danger and horrifying situations… hell… and some survive.. some don’t.. all get PTSD to some degree… as a bottom line… and the horrifying wounding physically… of many…

My cousin’s husband was wounded in Afghanistan… and yet signed up for another hitch to help his buddies. My Dad survived the bombing of Pearl Harbor… his time in the army was supposed to be up Dec. 8th… and Dec. 7th…happened and he had a lot more time and danger and bonding. he was shell shocked they called it coming back and lots of survivor guilt. Up until he died a short while back, I always knew when a fellow vet was on the phone with him. there was a love and joy in his voice… a bond that awed me.

There is honor and challenge for these men and women. Their deaths … yes, tragic… but they tried to save each other and be as honorable as they could be and make the most of their hell… so I would not say they died in vain.

As for taking the biggest mind-f*cking rationalization for continuing war because of the losses… and the SENTIMENTALITY NOT REALITY of their senses of patriotism… what can be done about that. I congratulate you for getting through. And for making the attempt. I back off still from relatives and friends from their rage and passion.

They lacked critical thinking and got seduced by patriarchal leadership. Trust in the authoritarian personality. They encouraged their children to risk their lives for these personalities. Dear God. No wonder Cindy is so bitter. And they have to wrap their minds and hearts around the horror of the truth.. and the guilt … and shame they were wrong.

McCain saying we will win in Iraq … these people are ripe for that lie. My country right or wrong. Sen. Sessions who seems to dominate on CSpan… justifying torture with his clever and disgusting patriotic truthiness.

thank you for reposting this.

(((KeithH)))
Wow that was enjoyable good energy good vibes Merci

amazing comment

wonderful grasp and explanation

Nice. Hillary will do a togetherness thing with Barack on the 26th.

He was hurtin yesterday… bone spur in the shoulder. Better day today. He enjoys the smells in the wind, the good chow and love and affection. So we will go on that agenda with less walking. I can get on my treadmill. Thank you for asking. How’s the boss over at your house?

He says you can call him jake or bj just not late for dinner.

grumpy

neighbors had a band rehearsal/jambalaya party and he had to stay home with me. he and his sister (who we babysat since the party was going on at her house) were giving me dirty looks all evening. she’s gone home, the party is over but he still has his back turned to me.

Thank you, newton and Suzanne.

That is more great news on the Hillary front.
Thanks Loo Hoo!

put it in the news queue loohoo

good night!

Wow libby. You sure can speak to this far better than most of us. I appreciate your pain, and that of your family.

g’nite libbylib

nite libby
glad, again, that you delurked

Wish I could go.

woo hoo Donna! Many thanks for the link newtonusr – been so busy today I forgot all about that election today.

hey npb

i can’t get up to even make tea. Although i’ll likely take advantage of the heating pad tonight, and try the tea tomorrow if i can move around. Not moving around much at all seems to help the most. Hence the ‘in bed with laptop because can’t sleep’ thing going on right now.

Who could possibly keep them all straight?

Hey, NPB!

I forgot all about that election today

Same here, until Teddy dropped it in.

What happened?

thank goodness you have a laptop (old fashioned desktop and tower here)

Awww, damn aliasofwestgate, sorry to hear you are down for the count but glad your heating pad helps. Lay low and feel better – sooner than later.

Oshkosh says the truck is production ready. The truck has a 400 HP Cummins ISL Diesel Engine with a 305 KW electric generator. The generator charges a 1.5 MJ ultra-capacitor. The capacitor feeds power directly to electric motors mounted on the wheels. The vehicle can work off-road, climb a 60% grade, and achieve 65 mph on secondary roads. The truck weights 3000 pounds less than its conventional predecessor, but still can carry a 13 ton load.

http://seekingalpha.com/articl…..ster-truck

This truck is a diesel Hybrid finnally a green vehicle which can handle a heavy load a lot of Semi Truck Drivers are complaining about the high cost of fuel. I wonder what it would take to scale up a 13 ton load to whatever Semi Trucks are carrying these days.
We need to push this technology.

Yeah. Where’s wigwam?

hey things

Good question.

I like your bright mind and respectfully disagree with you. While it is no doubt tragic what has happened to all parties. At what point does one say hey I am killing other people? People with far less education and training. Poor people. We went to war on them with far surperior fire power. Far far better logistics half way around the world. Shock Doctine explains it far better than I ever could. This war was about stealing oil. If it was about terror we would have been all over OBL. He got a pass. It was about destabilising an area of the world that has assests multinational corporations need. About exporting free market capitalism. It was about destroying a cultures way of living and replacing it with global policies and the people that enlisted in this cause were promised rewards. They knew the risk and went back for 3,4 or 5 tours of combat. many love the violence and are very good at it (professionals). I can assure you the peer pressure was enormous to be complicit. I have an aquaintance who is special forces (Nam). They have societies and are invited to conferences to get offerred lucrative military duty. Yes men and women that are skilled warriors. I was told they were part of kidnapping of children in South America for brothels in the states. I guess I line up to the Quakers for morals. If people chose murder, torture and mayhem for an occupation for whatever reason however high the end does not justify the means. Go back to the Stalinist. Read Hemingway come on LL ya gotta do better. I agree on a few points. But it has the same element of gang rape…to whatever degree you participate even as an observer you are complicit of a violent crime against a defeseless victim. The shame is palpable, the damage is permanent (and they knew it was before they started) and it rests on all of our shoulders. It really makes me heart sick.

Stomach ache, Loo Hoo. I think it cropped up as a side effect of my vaccination today. I got the Tdap(tetanus, diptheria,whooping cough) one. I haven’t had a tetanus booster in close to 15 years, so he figured it’s about time i got a booster with the upgrade. Otherwise, i’m fine. Just hurting enough to keep me in bed until likely just before i head to work at 3pm on wednsday.

the things i learn here – i did not know that had been combined

Oshkosh Truck Corporation (OSK) has designed a truck using Diesel Electric Hybrid technology that increases fuel efficiency 20% over the truck it replaces.

Assuming a 20% increase in efficiency, a 30 mpg car becomes a 36 mpg car. If every car on the road today used this technology, we would save about 1.9 million barrels of oil each day, along with a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. You also could add a battery to this design to create a plug-in vehicle. The battery would not need the capacity to power the entire car (making it cheaper). It would only re-charge the capacitor; sort of like how a battery on a camera charges a capacitor that powers the flash. You might never need to run the engine just traveling around town.

http://seekingalpha.com/articl…..ster-truck

So if we just take this tech which we currently have and apply it to our current cars we could save 1.9 million barrels of oil a day. Never mind what we could save if every Semi Truck, Dump truck, Farm tractor had this tech then what would the numbers be?
Anyway just how much oil is McCain/Bush is claiming we have in Alaska and off the coast of Florida and California?
Just how many years would it take just to start pumping that oil?
I believe that it only takes a year or two to retool a factory to make a new car once the blueprint is decided on.
What do you want to bet we can retool every car, truck, semi, tractor maker etc in less time than we can get oil out of the coast?

Where is Wigwam? Hi Suz!

Good news! The NYT agrees with us.

i didn’t either until today! First time i’ve ever gotten a side effect like this from one though. oooowie.

love their closing paragraph:

Senator Barack Obama opposes immunity and voted against the temporary expansion of FISA. We hope he will show strong leadership this time. He might even take time off from the campaign to vote against the disturbing deal brewing in the back rooms of Congress.

just posted loohoo’s news article in the box

bigbrother – I almost hate to voice my disagreement.
First, it’s not really disagreement, but I travel a slightly different path to get to my moral conclusion.
Second, the strength of your argument, it’s grounding, is pure.

But there’s this – there are lots of Americans, foolish or not, in uniform or not, who in good faith believe that America is in danger from without, and that to project our military in defense of America is the right thing to do.

As I said, right or wrong, many come to this conclusion in good faith, these misguided Patriots. They need convincing. They do not need to be called criminals.

I’m guessing you won’t sleep then, unless you’re saying 3:00 in the afternoon. Best luck!

Walking my pooch after work this evening I noticed a neighbor on my street has replaced her Ron Paul yard sign with an Obama sign, bless her. ;~)

Bush has done a shock doctrine right out of Hitler’s playbook however our situation is different. I expect that if we had won the Iraq war the same way Hitler won in Poland we would all be cheering.
Bush however has been stuck in Iraq for years. I’m guessing that if Hitler had the same problems in Poland he would have faced a serious antiwar movement too.

I’m gonna try to sleep. it’s just after 3am here. The heating pad actually helped with that, but i think themore it eases off the better it’ll be. Just hungry without being hungry right now. Ugh. I need to buy some tonic water for this while i’m there, if i’m able to stay upright by that time.

how is blue?

Nice way to put it, newt.

Whoo Hoo! Marvelous news!

hope you feel better soon alias

Glad you liked it.

That is news Ron’s people were not happy with the GOP but unless McCain gets a brain and puts Ron as VP then all those very committed, passionate, voters who care about the issues will be looking for someone else to support who can inspire a crowd.
Like Obama

I would not be cheering.

I’ve been seeing Obama bumper stickers at least once a week once MI figured out it’s delegate issue. Now that he can campaign here, i have a feeling the frequency is going to explode. I might even buy my own. ^^

i still can’t get it to open.. just that little circle spinning…

But how many people would?

I got about half way to where I wanted it to go.
I know folks who are deeply worried – some are low-information types – and it doesn’t change until they info-up.

Åre you in a hospital?

Fantastic what a great forum to hear this from. It carries a lot of weight.

Two great parallel headlines:

“Bush joins McCain on offshore drilling push”

and

“World’s Largest ‘Dead Zone’ Growing in Gulf of Mexico”

’cause in shrubland, dead is good.

No. Just at home for now. if it doesn’t improve at all before work, then it means i head to get it checked out. If this hadn’t eased up already, i’d likely have called about it. But it is easing, little by little as time goes on. I just don’t move around much so i don’t make it start up again, for the moment.

Sure does.

Right now a diesel car get better miles per gallon than a hybrid Prius for long hauls because without the stop and go of city traffic the regenerative braking of the Prius can’t recharge the battery.
This tech lets a diesel do that. Did I mention that Diesels last much longer than gas engine cars with fewer maintenance costs.
The benefits of converting to this tech as soon as possible will be much greater and cheaper in the long run than drilling for oil like Bush wants.

Florida and California can look forward to their own dead zones do people swim in the water off the coast of Louisiana?

there is already a huge (and getting larger) dead zone in the pacific off oregon iirc

drilling for hydrocarbons, destroying the oceans for hydrocarbons, ripping apart West Virginia for hydrocarbons, despoiling the Arctic for hydrocarbons, torturin’ for hydrocarbons, instructing US scientists to lie for hydrocarbons, invading and occupying Middle East Countries for hydrocarbons… is what shrub is all about. Perhaps, its all that shrub is about.

he only got to destroy his own oil company back when he was a midland (or was it odessa) tx oil co exec.

…oh, the news is full of goodies tonight:

“Report: Exams prove torture in Iraq, Gitmo: Physicians for Human Rights looked at 11 former prisoners”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25218584/

We electrocute. Not just waterboard, which we claim is somehow not torture, but we hook up electrodes and cook flesh. I suppose that’s not torture either.

Your point is well take. However we have similar argument about Impeachment…it is the legislative agenda that matters. The logic is pragmatic the rule of law, the bill of rights is less important than their political goals. I agree from a political point you get as much traction by parsing the argument. But like teaching children as they grow up and have experiences they learn good behavior (don’t beat on your little sis).
But their is a certain morality a no no. You can’t have it both ways. It is hard when you find out your wrong for some they would rather divorce than than change their bad ways. I still stand strong on the principal and I also know these folks would be onlikely to give me any slack for not subscribing to their values. Ya think? In order to be a better person we have to come to terms with the error of our way doinf novenas, 1000 hail marys does not bring the victims back to life. Maybe they were ignorant. It that an excuse? Turn it around admit the mistake and help the victims would be a better course of action. Make amends! We can expection of folks.

Member the victory dog and pony show on the carrier in San Diego? Bush did not generate all that much enthusiasm or did I miss something in my bubble.

We should make this a campaign issue, would you let your kids swim in water that fish can’t live in even if President Bush were to say that the water is safe?
We need less posion/oil. We have the tech to cut back. Plus if we cut back rather than drill for oil we can cause a lack of demand driven drop in oil prices.
Between the Diesel Electric Hybrid truck and the Aptera we can save much more oil quicker than we could if we started Drilling in Alaska, Florida and California tomorrow.
Plus think of all the jobs it would create in Detroit as everyone trades their old cars in!

http://seekingalpha.com/articl…..ster-truck

http://www.aptera.com/

Bush is not quite the Speaker Hitler was? That and Karl is not half the showmen the Nazi’s were?

We are in almost complete agreement.
I think of gunships spraying neighborhoods with all kinds of Hell to “root out the terra’ists” and I have no argument at all with you.

And at the same time, I think of the tens of thousands of ground troops who are literally “on the ground”, and from that view, I wonder how many have perspective. Placed in an impossible tactical environment and told to “go get them,” i just don’t believe that the majority are born to atrocity.

I don’t have kids, but imagine being their parents…
I have a lot of shredded sympathy.

you are preaching to the choir here, things. i don’t know what it will take to make it happen but i do know that the boosh/cheney folks don’t want alternative energy unless it is black gold, texas tea, gushing in an alternative location they can claim as theirs

so how do we help that to change? do we focus on getting cheney/boosh impeached or obama elected so he can start that change? can we wait until november or should we be pushing this now? lots of questions i don’t have the answers for

I remember speaking with a TX rethug state legislator once… toxic chemicals used in oil wells had contaminated farmland to the point that crops would no longer grow. He tried to argue that this was a good thing, since now they could help the local economy along by building housing on the now non-productive farmland. He thought kids playing in poison was a good thing…really.

Hey all. Up early and enjoying the thread. Just wanted to let ya’ll know I’m here.

g’morning mr cbl – glad you are enjoying it. i love our late late nite discussions here.

Bush is going to give a speech tomorrow calling for an end to the offshore oil drilling ban. I’m sure Bush also wants to drill in Anwr in Alaska but that is not an offshore oil deposit.
Nope Bush is saying offshore oil drilling which in America means Florida and California and any new oil deposits they find off the coast of Alaska.
The GOP talking heads will all try and mislead people and say the President wants to drill in Alaska but unless Bush wants to build an offshore oil platform and slant drill Anwr.
Well then he is lying and homeowners in California and Florida should worry about what an oil slick will do to their beach front property.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?…..5Q5BZ4jtdd(Q3Fged

They let you build homes on land that won’t support crops? Is that legal?

in Texas? Quite possibly

Proposed TV commercial setting Texas the land here is so poisonous that crops won’t grow here, so of course they built family homes here so that children could enjoy all the empty space!
Don’t you wish your kids could play in this neighborhood?
Don’t you wish that your kids could swim in an ocean of saftey free of sharks, jellyfish and annoying undersea life in general?
Then support Bush’s call to drill off the coast of California and Florida a few pennies off the price of gas is worth it.

Moved to Texas 4 + years ago from California. The difference in environmental protection standards is staggering. Things are done here that would get you prison time in CA.

Erin Brokavitch…She discovered throught the Regional Water Board records that the waters were poisened by the local utility plant and caused all kinds of sickness and death.
Sadly it was after the fact as is so many cases. Under Bushco the USEPA is a tool for industry like all the rest of regulatory that is supposed to protect us citizens from harm. Lead in toys, deathly plastics, arsenis in drinking water on and on he is a criminal through and through. That is why they picked him and why Baker Botts the Houston law firm sent the Brooks Brotherd to Florida to take the election from Gore. Shit howdy you are in Texas now. You know like Jasper where they drag people to death for being Black.

Oh yeah………Thanks for the Joan and Bob, Suz. That looks like the back deck of that groovy bar right on the marina, the name of which escapes me. Prolly cuz every time I went there we sailed in from Alameda. (About a six pack sailing time)

i think you are right about where it was filmed. 6 pack if the tide and winds were working in your favor… more if against ya

I bet Bush will exaggerate the amount of oil expected to be found offshore . I expect that Bush won’t mention it would take a few years to get that oil and that it would do nothing about oil prices now.
I expect Bush will not release the National Petroleum Reserve to lower the price of oil.
I bet Bush will talk about how safe the new oil drilling tech is and how we don’t need to worry about any oil spills.
Bush will not mention Florida or California, but that is who this call to drill offshore is aimed at.
Bush will not mention that going green with all our cars would cut oil prices faster and be cheaper in the long run.
I admit that it would cost allot at first to retool all our car, truck, semi truck, Dump Truck, tractor and construction vehicle factories to the new diesel hybrid tech.
But the savings in the long run would be much bigger than anything we can get out of drilling.
Also I predict Bush will take the total amount of oil he expects to find and assume that it all hits the oil market at once to drop the price.
However Bush will also claim that the oil will be pumped for years which is true but if you pump the oil out over years then the drop in price caused by the new oil goes down.
Also I predict that the talking heads on TV Democrat and GOP will all nod wisely and agree with Bush.

I wonder the anti science GOP does not seem aware that pollution spreads past the walls of their gated communities into the air and water.
Given all the pollution in Texas what if we were to test the air, water and ground around Bush’s home and Texas’s rich neighborhoods and then publish the results on the net.
Bwahahaha!

Such as?

attaturk’s upstairs with the dark side

thanks for hanging with me tonight, pups. g’nite all

nite suz. i’m gonna scram, too

(chuckling) Indeed.

TCU and BigBrother,
The oil drilling as cure all scam is just that. A scam. George Will played the cRUSHed LIMpballs, matt drudge part this time and darth has had to admit his China drilling off Florida story is bullshit. But it is working. A coworker told me this story yesterday afternoon. In his mind the Chinese drilling off Florida made it ok for the U.S. to do it also. This was the intended effect,

We actually take our breaks under an oak tree that is devoid of foliage because of all the coolant and oil leaking out of the barrels of metal chips we put nearby. In CA there are secondary containment regulations. When I mentioned this to coworkers they looked at me like I had 2 heads. Just one of many examples.

Right now, the national minimum wage is set at $5.85/hr and will get a bump in late July to $6.55/hr followed by another boost to $7.25/hr next July. The Economic Policy Institute says that 5.6 million workers will be affected by this change. Aaronson, Agarwal, and French estimate that a $1 minimum wage increase translates into a $2,000 boost in annual spending.

A back-of-the-envelope calculation (assuming that 5.6 million minimum wage earners experience a $1 gain in pay) would put new spending at $11.2 billion. The cost to businesses would be $2.8 billion in increased wages.

On the other hand, past research has shown that consumers spent about two-thirds of their stimulus checks back in 2001. This time around, that would translate into an additional $80 billion in spending. So, what’s better, spending $120 billion to stimulate $80 billion in consumption, or $2.8 billion to stimulate $11.2 billion?

http://seekingalpha.com/articl…..-effective

Bush seems to be wrong about raising the minimum hurting the economy stimulus checks will help the economy but not as much as raising the minuim wage.
We need to make a big deal about this.

Agreed moral equivalence took effect or if they are doing it why can’t I never mind that Bush lied about them drilling for oil in the first place the idea is planted.
We need to present better ideas! Its why I’m glad the hybrid diesel story showed up today now all we need are some Dems with Stones to spread our talking points!

Thanks Suzanne, Sleep well.

You should do a post and find a better job! What kind of coolant is it, is this a power plant?

Nite Suz

It is marvelous news – since childhood she has been a close friend of our Republican mayor – the first woman CIA chief in Europe – and currently in her third mayoral term. I hasten to add that compared to Clint Eastwood’s one term mayoral disaster our current mayor enjoys broad support and no small affection from our dwindling voter roles. Carmel demographics currently reveal only 50% full time residents, the other half are vacation homes for fortunate out-of-towners, out of state or other countries. Our State Coastal Commission has been a good send and keeps outlanders like Rupert Murdoch and movie star developer home boys like Dirty Harry from reckless and unnecessry overdevelopment abuses, happily. ;~)

It takes about 6 months for any change in the economy to take effect. I wonder if Bush will try and claim the stimulus checks helped the economy and that the rise in the minimum wage did nothing.
I think the economy is to screwed to improve until maybe late November but there is another rise to the Minimum wage next year assuming that we have no more stimulus checks given out at that time we should see if raising the minimum wage will have more benefit that a stimulus check.
GOP heads and Chicago School Economics Professors should either explode then or go into denial. They will try and ignore or explain this away we will need to keep pressing the subject maybe by raising the minimum wage again?

Sweet dreams Suz and other sleepyheads – am heading off to dreamland as well. Thanks for such fine late late nite company, as always. ;~)

BB, came back for a revisit. So much of what you said was in the back of my mind, too, as I was posting my share above. But in terms of dealing with the in vain issue… I guess I was trying to offer an alternative in terms of empathy. I agree with you about killing. But there are a lot of “cuckoo’s nests” in life.. and war is one of them. And the bonding deal is strong and the emotional life raft these young participants cling to and prioritize to give some humanity to a horror show of experience.

I hate a society that encourages little boys to pick up toy guns and pretend to shoot each other. How sick is that but it is traditional, though some enlightened ones are pulling back. But video games so violent are velocitizing our boys and girls to violence also. And setting up heirarchy of power and control. TV and movies… glamorizing violence.

Some military entrants are undoubtedly narrow minded and violent upon entering the service, amoral. some are brainwashed effectively … that group think that joins the soldiers as brothers… also helps them in the name of loyalty and with their primal reactions to horror demonize and dehumanize others enough so they can at the moment take a human life. To function in a crazy horror situation they go crazy … Part of the PTSD … to behave in a way in contradiction to morality. That guy in California that in a matter of weeks discovered two sets of students, prisoners and guards, the guards had slipped into horrifyingly sadistic behavior to their vulnerable captives. And that other experiment where an authority figure in a white coat tells people to zap people with incredible currents of electricity and the vast majority follow the firm instructions of cruelty of an authority figure.

Atrocities and evils perpetrated and covered up I am sure.

Kids sent over there naive, romanticizing seeing “action”, or who signed up in national guard say for economic benefits only to be caught in the web of war… I hated that commercial for recruitment about the father saying… you looked me in the eye. Go to war and gain your dad’s respect. Relatives so proud of you and clueless as to what you actually went through and saw you were capable of. Crazymaking to keep such secrets if you survive.

Ever read the War Prayer by Mark Twain? I think he wrote it but held back publishing in his lifetime …it was too dangerous and subversive to the powerful collective patriarchal ego of the country, patriotism was nonnegotiable… national groupthink. About someone trying to talk a church congregation out of the nobility of war. Very powerful. Good for Twain for writing it… inspiring now.

I was horrified over the first Gulf war… the good war? Old protesters I knew from Viet Nam… were accepting of that surgical war. And the MSM refused to EVER mention the Iraqi casualties back then. The MSM was in love with the technology.. and that was corporate control I bet that I was not even thinking of back then.

Emails after 9/11… combining patriotism, religion, hatred.

Some people can’t even summon up empathy for innocent Iraqis and their fate. What narcissism as a society. And Congress.. realizing this shallowness.. and not willing to call them on it.

okay.. signing off again… take care all…