Afghanistan. The black hole of American foreign policy. After the brief war following the events of 9/11, most of the American people were behind the overthrow of the Taliban for harboring Osama Bin Laden, and felt that there was not only a purpose but a plan to defeating the Taliban and the liberation of the Afghan people from the oppressive yoke of Talib rule. A real war of "liberation", sort of... The unfortunately awesome truth is that the war in Afghanistan was not sufficiently "sexy" or profitable for the men and women selected by the man selected by the Supreme Court to "run" this country.
The stunning success of the invasion of Afghanistan should have been no surprise -- our military was (and is) second to none -- but it was being misused by the powers that be who saw an opportunity to divert the national will to an invasion of Iraq and subsequent overthrow of Saddam Hussein. Our Preznit, whose mantra has been "spreading freedom" left the small sapling he planted in Afghanistan and took our national gardening tools and went on to Iraq, where we are reaping the bitter fruits of that bad policy. The resurgent Taliban has proven to be a more formidable foe than what we defeated in the early winter of 2001, and has captured the popular imagination for being able to stand up to the combined US and NATO forces, not in and of itself a good thing, but one that was eminently foreseeable given the lack of focus, funding, follow-through or planning to succeed (sound familiar?).
After the US attacked Afghanistan in 2001, a new future for Afghanistan was mapped out at the Bonn Conference and then at the Tokyo Conference, where plans were laid out for the rehabilitation and reconstruction of Afghanistan. Yet they failed to materialise due to the international community’s unfulfilled pledges of aid.
Dividing the Afghan operation into two sides, political (everything the 1600 Crew does is political) and military it becomes interesting to see how the whole Afghan operation becomes one of the most complex foreign policy failures following a "won" war ever. But no one ever said that the men and women running this government could not screw up cashing in a winning lottery ticket, especially the Loser-in-Chief who has been ostensibly running the show over the last seven years.
Let's take a look at a recent example; the supposedly defeated Taliban broke 450 of their fellow true-believers out of Kandahar's Sarposa prison in this weekend.
After investing large amount of money in reconstructing the prison (but 10 million less than finding the stain on Monica's dress), training the staff and locking up "evil-doers" there was a breakout...
Yesterday, Sarposa's entire population of 1,100 inmates – including murderers, bandits and about 450 hardened Islamic militants – was enjoying freedom after an audacious Taliban attack engineered one of the biggest mass jail breaks in history.
"One of the biggest mass jail breaks in history"... on whose watch again? Oh, yeah.
In a spectacular raid which confounded hopes that the Taliban was now on the back foot, a group of about 30 heavily armed insurgents launched an assault on the prison on Friday evening, using two suicide bombers to blow open the gates and then massacring at least 15 dazed guards as they tried to put up a fight.
The jail break is symptomatic of a larger problem that we have in Afghanistan, a country where after 2001 we had an opportunity to make a real difference. The fact that the Taliban can so easily organize and move across the isolated Pakistani border is another tribute to the failed policy of Afghanistan by the 1600 Crew. The reality is that every day brings greater challenges that are being ignored or pushed aside because of the ill-conceived and badly executed war in Iraq. And now the Neocon Saber-Rattling about Iran has begun in earnest over the last few months. Notice if you will that the NeoCons, up to and including Dick Cheney really never talk about the foreign policy failure that is Afghanistan but will bring up that four-letter noun, Iran, at every chance.
Meanwhile American casualties are still falling in Afghanistan.
In the worst single attack on U.S. or coalition forces in Afghanistan this year, four Marines from a unit based at Twentynine Palms, Calif., were killed by a roadside bomb yesterday, the military reported. A fifth Marine was wounded in the attack.
It's amazing that in a war we "won," we are still incurring casualties. I don't seem to remember that in Germany or Japan we had quite those issues six years after the surrender documents were signed, but then we had both a foreign policy and a plan. And a leader who could execute something other than prisoners on gurneys on the advice of Abu Gonzales.
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ot - al gore speaking now in detroit with obama. streaming live from obama’s website
I am the unzed! Hi GW.
(((hi np)))
gore is masterful tonight.
There are many differences between our occupation of Germany and Japan, and what’s happened in Afghanistan, but I think the most relevant one is that we simply were not paying Afghanistan any attention. This failure compounds the foolishness of going to war with Iraq. At the time, I felt what would happen in Afghanistan once we stopped paying attention was the only reason necessary to avoid a war in Iraq.
Of course, the other reasons became evident over time.
MSNBC cutting off Obama.
Abrams, put Obama back on. Cnn time.
C-span has it on
dugg
Jo…love your posts!
I’m watching from Cortez, CO.
so far, 7 (SEVEN) news/poitical news casts are NOT covering the Gore Endorsement.
Reporting. Live!
From next door to John McCain (on a “global” scale).
Gore sure makes one realize just how bad we were hosed. I was just sitting here contemplating Katherine Harris and the Ohio debacle (actually I can’t remember old Ron’s last name!)
Thanks. I like the big picture better and better sound. Just called sonnyboy out to listen to Mr. Obama.
have you seen Recount?
Take preemptive blood pressure medicine first….
I don’t find it. And congrats to JoFish for being on the front page of FDL!
Ken Blackwell?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_blackwell
It’s always my first choice, no talking heads. Afterwards they often have public call ins, which are usually quite entertaining. They have separate lines for each party and one for independents. It is really hard to get through though.
Thanks, Jayt. I was thinking Blackstone and I knew that was wrong.
CSpan1 has Obama’s speech from earlier today up and running…
No. The one on CSPAN is the one from this morning in Flint. Still, a good speech. Going back to the streaming….
Jofish, you rock, and congrats on front page status. But squids are still for kids…
Shouldn’t we have invaded Saudi Arabia rather than Afghanistan?
Thanks Jo.
I don’t want my tax dollars going to occupy a foreign country.
When
President Clusterf*ckBush teaches them about “democracy,” he somehow forgets the Posse Comitatus Actthanks for covering this ignored war, jo fish.
how about neither?
maybe we could have gone after the people responsible instead of whole nations?
Appreciate your writing Jo. Are we in some kind of weird race to see how many countries we can ruin during this administration? I count at least three…
The invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and possibly Iran and Syria….are all part of the Neocon plan which way, way preceded 9/11. 9/11 enabled their plan to occupy the oil routes and fields in the region…and to create the unitary executive plan in order to have complete control of our country in order to act as they wish.
Success is impossible, whether we stay for 10,000 years or not. Even the Russians figured that out…
What a mess. What a debacle. What a tragedy.
My apologies, everybody! I’m too dumb to read the little label stating TODAY. Doh!
sensible as always, thank you selise :)
don’t forget haiti
That would have messed up their plans…
S’okay. No beating self allowed. :)
even better!
Yes, yes, yes.
The countries we are occupying are going the same way as Haiti…by design.
Haiti is “strategic” rather than a source of natural resources to steal…unless there is oil there that I don’t know about. It has served as a “depot” for drug and arms running from places like Colombia and Nicaragua during the multiple Bush administrations. They used Haiti during Iran/Contra to repack arms.
ot - i haven’t listened to obama for awhile, but gore’s endorsement motivated me to give a listen tonight.
some good lines: somewhere along the line the straight talk express has lost a couple of wheels
dugg, thanks for the link.
somewhere along the line the straight talk express has lost a couple of wheels
That tends to happen when the wheels keep going in directions opposite from one another…
Oh noooo Obama just suggested we spend a weeks worth of Iraqi occupation expenditures on young Americans early education.
How dare he! /s
LOL…that’s a good one!!
He’s so unreasonable…
The Soviet debacle was certainly a good object lesson for what could happen… and the Brits had a pretty fair set of “lessons learned” about Iraq from the last century. Unfortunately, the 1600 Crew and NeoCons neither read nor understand history as something other than an inconvenience to be re-written at their leisure for their own nefarious purposes.
Land war in Asia…what could go wrong?
There’s also the fact that most of the troops that were used to invade Afghanistan were deployed in the surrounding countries before 911
Don’t have a link handy (it was European press articles) but to deploy that many troops with all the equipment needed half way across the world is a logistical nightmare
Oh, I don’t know, let’s find out in Iran… third time is a charm, isn’t it?
I’ll head over right behind Jenna and Not Jenna.
well, the british pulled out of anbar province cuz it was peaceful………then all hell broke loose……..
now, we are asking them to enter into—
Subject: CNN Breaking News
– UK to send more troops to Afghanistan, says PM Gordon Brown during press conference with U.S. President George W. Bush.
============
karsai threatening to attack cross-border, while pakistan is trying to make peace with warlords along the border, hmmmmmmmmmm, who will win?
whole lotta muscle goin’ on………
Exactly. They just stay the course of their agenda and ignore everything that challenges it….they just stay…and say, “So!”
I’m counting the days….and they better leave. Today, when Bush said it was just “speculation” that his trip to Europe was his farewell trip…or his last trip to Europe as prezdinent was interesting. He probably just meant that he might take another trip over there with Laura…hmmmm…we shall see…I don’t count him gone until he’s packed up and gone…
It had something to do with “The Great something….” They were already planning to invade Afghanistan in the Fall of 2001…
I think that is quite wise on your part. I trust W about as far as I can throw him.
Karzai and “muscle”….Somehow that doesn’t register in my mind..LOL
john at 42–we defended your ass in comments a few threads ago, in no more steny and ls did last night in siun’s thread.
just so ya know.
nooone defended mine in that situation, but doesn’t spare me from doing the same…….with vigor. saaalute. remember that? saaaaaaaaa-lute. laugh-in.
i don’t want to get that close
JoFish on the front page! Good show Jo!
I trust him (Preznit Ugly American) about as far as Crashcart Cheney can throw him… :)
Yep. There are parts of history between 1929 and 1938 they studied and applied quite well. Much to our misfortune.
i don’t want to get that close
I’ve always wanted to have the chance to look him right in the eye and refuse to shake his hand…
Related
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4585010/
Straight up, Jo Fish. Solid post.
and LS, you were a spaz-o-matic last night about how people were treated, and i agreed but was waiting for the right time and place………but when we stepped up and pressed it you were nowhere to be found today in the steny hoyer thread, how come? you were there and commenting, but didn’t back our asses up.
was it something you really wanted to bring to light or just a reactive comment? cuz i went all out to back you up and you never said a word…….how come?
i felt like i was swingin’ in the wind. then a few others backed my ass………i would suggest if you’re gonna mount an attack to not leave your soldiers without cover.
but i felt it was wrong anyway, so, no harm done, but a few of us wondered where your passion went…..i got emails about it.
I wish I could count the times I’ve had that same fantasy.
I would give him the one fingered salute | and then start laughing in his face.
and doesn’t it piss anybody else off that the british pulled their troops but all of a sudden they’re sending them to afghanistan????????
if i were a british parent i would be pissed……
i haven’t been able to find any numbers of troops yet, if anyone finds them i would be interested.
they were proud of pulling out of iraq, and expressed it from their captains who did interviews to their moms on the street. and now they’re gonna send them to afghanistan, who has a higher rate of death than iraq this past month….not in the news……..so, i wonder how many troops they’re sending…….
I was afraid, because I thought I would be banned or something. I truly appreciated your comments.
I laid my case out on the line in Siun’s thread, because the subject was the colonization of Iraq…and my point was that we wouldn’t have been there had 9/11 not been used in order to justify the invasion and occupation…which, in my mind, was part of the topic. So, I got hot under the collar and let loose with my barrage about the way commenters had been treated on the threads in question….I’m sorry if I offended Siun, but I do feel that 9/11 and Iraq are connected, because it was used to justify the invasion based on lies.
My position is that, based on all we know and all that has happened in the government, since then, I don’t trust anything that has been spoon fed to me by Bushco’s media..including the events of 9/11, and I would like to see an independent investigation. McClellan is verifying those sentiments. But, being painted as a “crazie” by the powers that be…was too much for me to take. I apologize if I offended anyone, but…I believe what I believe.
Shorter Junya and Afghanistan:
The moral of the story?
Short-term solutions tend to cause long-term problems.
Haste makes waste.
Don’t sleep with your window open.
Heck, I don’t know.
What I do know is that nine irons might work on the golf course, but they ain’t much use in getting rid of bees.
Um, what?
PW is upstairs
No lack of passion…I don’t want to lose my voice. Capiche.
230
LS - because you pointed out to me what happened, a couple from me too. (here and here)
What, you worried about being “Mocked relentlessly” or something? I damn sure had a twist in my knickers after that thread. There was a whole lot of bullshit going on there that REALLY gave me a severe case of the redass. Especially a certain Panda person…
and sorry to insult the savior==
but what good is gore endorsing obama now going to do? he missed the boat when it could have had an affect.
c’mon get real.
his pattern; too little, too late. the horse has left the barn.
and he looks a little bloated like russert.
i don’t get the gore idolatry. never did. he’s always a step or two behind, when he could have had an affect, he doesn’t….he’s off doing something else……….a pattern there……..
i wouldn’t count on him for a political impact, environmental maybe, that is more subtle, but political, his timing is shit.
Thamk you JoFish and FDL for this post on the forgotten war.
I have not yet read the comments, but would like to say that I was also against this war.
If the deal that the invited Taliban (by DC et al.) for the pipeline thru Afghanistan to the Persian Gulf had not collapsed due to lack of lucre, there would have been no war.
As for Osama, please talk to America, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (you know, Pakistan and the miscreants there who created the Taliban.)
If we only had Timmy to explain that Afghanistan. He could spell as well as the best of them. Will we ever smile again.
Oh by the way, Our Great Kommander has vowed to “get” that pesky USA-ma Bin Laden. That is get him, to prove the world is a safer place with neo-cons remaking the mideast.
How to catch this shape shifting mastermind of terror? The Green Berets? CIA? Blackwater? The Incredible Hulk? No. The British will get him for us. Even better, it is going to be another VietNam War. Woo Hoo!
I never commented on “that” thread. My anger began with the first paragraph of the preceding post…that is where it started…then when it went into the Taibi post it got worse….9/11 “truthers” were deemed as crazies and that Amanda person said they should be “mocked relentlessly” and there was all of this condescending BS from “intelligencia” suggesting that anyone challenging Bushco’s version of the truth was a nutcase and had “invaded” the previous thread…then there was the blatant “put down” of a sincere commenter…
It was ugly.
I decided to observe…but the anger was there, and it came out later.
Today…I was trying to “stifle”. Yet, here it is again.
what a concept!
selise for VP!
Yeah, a trip to her post pretty much showed me where she was coming from. Not my taste.
Thanks Selise…I felt so sorry for him. I didn’t see your comments that you cite here. Well said.
It just squeezed my heart. We’re better than that.
accckkkkkk!!! noooooooo!!!
One more thing…dmac…I have 14 horses and a bunch of other animals I have to take care of…so, I’m in and out all the time…I don’t catch every comment you make, but I really do appreciate that you stepped in.
john at 63–
you made a comment, i think in the michael reagan thread, that you wanted to post at 55 in the matt taillabi book salon thread about how commenting had become a not so civil discourse………and how you were leaving it rather than taking it on…….i felt that same way not too long ago and decided to take it, and it’s front page posters who did it to me, on directly…….so be it…….
i am doomed to be epu’d, the turtle with the spunky bullhorn.
LS at 77, i’ll ALWAYS cover your ass. need not mention it again.
and selise, same thing.
STEEL balls, we have ’em…………it’s a club kinda thing.
need not mention it again.
heh.
otoh, make that a LOL!
Go Al! — he made me all teary- eyed and goose- pimply, and his timing is just fine (imho) dmac@ 69.
The “Truthers” are slandering America by claiming the 9-11 attacks were an inside job. The Truthers also are slandering the journalists who did a fantastic job of reporting the 9-11 attacks, and the outstanding 9-11 Commission. We can also include critics of Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Torture, that Habeas thing as more slander.
Let me make myself really clear. I don’t, personally, believe the “official story” of 9/11. I don’t belong to any “truther” group. I want the truth, and I don’t think a word of truth has been uttered by these scoundrels since before 2000, when the election was fixed and stolen.
That does not make me a crazy.
I just want to know what the Bin Laden family and the Bush family connections that are so entangled had to do with the financing of the events on 9/11 that enabled the debacle we are all living with 7 years later. The Saudi financing was ignored and redacked in the Commission report. So!
Anyone who want to “mock me relentlessly” can bite me.
Yeah. Kristin Breitweiser is a smart widow of a 9/11 casualty. She is an attorney, and she is not crazy.
In fact, she has been the Marcy of 9/11.
One thing, I think, you need to take into consideration is that the book salon is different from the regular threads. The book salon guest tries to field questions from all the people on the thread. I ask hard hitting questions when I feel the need, except the answer and let the book salon guest field other questions from other people on the thread.
There was a dual problem…the post prior to the Book Salon invoked the “truther” slams, and then the subject of Book Salon was about slamming “truthers”…That is what happened….just because you don’t buy Bushco’s “truthiness” doesn’t make you part of a group that deserves to be attacked and discounted. Time will tell…history will tell.
It was as if you were a crazy moron if you “didn’t” buy Bushco’s story.
Nah….call me crazy…and mock me relentlessly if you will…
That is one of the most ridiculous accusations I have ever heard! I would expect something that foolish to come form the mouth of Bill O’Reilly or some other inflammatory Rightwing idiot. It’s apparent that you would rather ignore the facts that have thousands of qualified experts in their respective fields questioning the official explanation of events. To claim they are all either insane or traitorous is simply inane.
LS, I quite frankly left b/c I did not like the non- inquisitive and derisive tone, and do appreciate your effort at discourse.
Ah, I didn’t see that. Just wondered into the salon while things were turning toward pies.
Seems to me this is a useless argument because nobody really knows what happened and we probably never will. Everything has been shredded.
well, all i know is, you gotta have steel balls.
You are correct. My snark was not successful. It is dreadful to use public airwaves to advocate “shoot him’, against Mark Dice. I am a “partial truther”. Some libertarian positions of some “truthers” are just old fashiomned failed conservatism.
I do totally agree with LS.
and be good at riddles.
707…..Yup.
I’ll bet that Bandar Bush will squeal sometime though….*g*…he’s a piece of work.
Matt is a well known ridiculer of 9/11 theorists. So I knew if the topic came up he was sure to caustically respond. I didn’t expect Amanda to be so vehemently nasty about it and declare everyone here in Austin personsa non grata if they held such beliefs. I find it interesting since I was one the individuals who actually did my share to make the place weird years before she was even born. Oh well, once one is published, I suppose it gives a person the right to insult anyone they wish.
Do you think I should pack my stuff and move to Roswell?
I think that might have been..snark…?
and bake a good pie and be good at laundry…….
after all that, you’re ok……smooth sailin’…..just don’t leave your steel balls at home.
My MIL lives in Roswell…nooooo
Stay here and keep Austin weird with us!
I agree…steel balls…
LS , you;re quite the shit kicker, know you’ve got the boots to match it.
just wish you’d been around the two times i got kicked here, once by a commenter and once by a poster who had another poster back him up by emailing me to shut the hell up…….just cuz i asked a question.
doesn’t matter, i know what my motives were, truth misinterpreted, then i got pissed off……and i know yours, same thing………
nite.
Sorry Frank33, I’m still testy after that experience. I didn’t dare say a word for I would have been outta here for sure.
The Repubs have done a great job at connecting those who want a real investigation with those that believe that lizards from other planets are ruling the country….
Just like they connected Saddam with OBL. People like Cheney and Rove laugh all the way to the bank..
Some younguns just lump it all together…. Shows a lack of critical thinking and they act like ostriches with their heads in the sand. Their loss. Sigh.
If only we could examine the banking transactions of Prince Bandar at the Riggs Bank. (Hello Politico.) That might reveal a lot of stuff.
Forward the email…you’ve got mine.
I figure there’s a time to hold ‘em, and a time to show ‘em, and a time to fold ‘em. I’m not ready to fold ‘em. I don’t want to be banned and have my voice silenced.
JoFish–
Thank you again for remembering the sadness that is Afghanistan, her people, her land and all that has been laid to waste.
Yup. But what do we get…*crickets”…”you’re making this up”…etc.
No. There is evidence.
amen.
i like to hear from people with views that are different than mine. that is how i learn. i only object when people make claims and then instead of defending their claims with evidence and reason they make personal attacks.
sadly there were lots of personal attacks on anyone who dared to question (no matter how reasonable the question) the official narrative.
i don’t get this attempt to narrow the range of what is acceptable - not with reason but with bullying. yuck - i thought that was a right wing tactic. we can do better.
and LS–the posters who so disappointed me me are good at the ’shout’ and ’yell louder’ but i seriously doubt if they own the same shiny steel balls that i earned…sweetie pie boys……..go do this, go do that, i do this, i do that..ok, yeah, oh, ok……..yawn…….just sayin’………polished set of steel……earned…..nuthin’ like it. they get to diss me and say whatever they want and get away with it? polished, my ass. i sleep at night. fine. and in the daytime it’s aok fine, too. natural perfume does wonders to eradicate rancid scents.
hear, hear.